08/24/23 08/24/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> former president trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. [cheers] amy: republican presidential candidates faced off in their first debate wednesday, but frontrunner donald trump refused

to take part. later today he will turn himself in at the fulton county jail to face charges for attempting to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. we will air excepts from the gop debate in milwaukee. >> the climate change agenda -- >> whoa! >> the climate agenda is a hoax. cooks now is not the time for on-the-job training. we don't need to bring in a rookie, we don't need to bring in people without experience. amy: but first, the head of the wagner mercenary group yevgeny prigozhin has apparently died in a plane crash in russia two months after he led a failed mutiny against putin. we will get the latest as questions swirl over what happened. all that and more, coming up.

welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. officials in russia say the mercenary leader yevgeny prigozhin was among 10 people killed wednesday when a private jet crashed northwest of moscow. the crash also reportedly killed dmitry utkin, a senior mercenary commander who founded the wagner group in 2014. eyewitnesses to the crash reported hearing two bangs before the plane tumbled from the sky, an incident that was apparently captured in a video widely circulated on social media. the crash sparked widespread speculation that prigozhin and other wagner leaders were assassinated for leading a failed mutiny in june that saw heavily armed mercenaries advance to within 120 miles of moscow. adding to the speculation, russian media reported wednesday the kremlin has fired senior russian general sergei surovikin as air force chief.

the general was known as an ally of the wagner group and had not been seen in public since the mutiny. we'll have the latest on this story after headlines. three u.s. senators have pledged additional military support to ukraine during a visit to kyiv. on wednesday, democratic senators richard blumenthal and elizabeth warren and republican senator lindsey graham met with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, voicing their support for president biden's request this month that congress approve an additional $13 billion in military aid and $8 billion in humanitarian aid to ukraine this year. >> they breached a major line of defense yesterday. >> we are here to say in a bipartisan way we want to help them. we want to make sure they have the resources they need to be

able to fight back against vladimir putin. amy: senators warren and graham. the biden administration has approved the sale of an additional $500 million in military hardware to taiwan. the main contractor for the deal would be u.s. arms maker lockheed martin, which builds f-16 fighter jets used by taiwan's military. this comes just weeks after the u.s. approved a weapons aid package to taiwan worth up to $345 million. in recent months, china's military has increased its activities around taiwan, sending fighter jets and warships closer to the island which beijing considers part of its sovereign territory. six new countries will join the brics alliance, adding to the bloc of nations led by brazil, russia, india, china, and south africa. starting january 1, brics will be expanded to include argentina, egypt, ethiopia,

iran, saudi arabia, and the united arab emirates. the announcement came as brics members wrapped up a three-day summit in south africa. on wednesday, chinese president xi jinping blasted what he called a cold war mentality haunting international politics. the remarks came a day after xi unexpectedly skipped a major address in johannesburg, fueling speculation over his health. the speech was instead delivered by chinese commerce minister wang wentao. >> all that we have done in the final analysis is to enable oh are people to lead a prosperous life. although some have arbitrarily blocked and suppressed emerging market countries, curbing whoever is developing well and tripping up whoever is catching up. amy: on wednesday, hundreds of environmental and human rights activists gathered outside the brics summit demanding china halt financing for fossil fuel

projects in africa. protesters cited the china-backed east african crude oil pipeline project known as eacop. campaigner and protest leader zaki mamdoo said a true friend to africa would not fund projects that displace communities, unravel livelihoods, and destroy ecosystems. >> what friend would come into your house and subject your children to illness and harm? [indiscernible] china, russia, india aspired to be the same colonial -- amy: officials in turkey have suspended ship traffic in the turkish straits linking the black sea to the mediterranean after wildfires broke out in the region. hundreds of ships were left idled as officials closed the dardanelles strait to clear the area for firefighting planes. in neighboring greece, firefighters are battling more

than 350 wildfires that have broken out over the past week, including fires that scorched homes just outside of the capital athens. here in the united states, a record-shattering summer heatwave continued on wednesday, with more than 130 million people in 22 states under heat alerts. in the pacific northwest, the death toll from wildfires in eastern washington state has risen to two. farther north, officials in british columbia have lifted travel restrictions after rain and cooler weather helped bring wildfires under control. british colombia premier david eby said wednesday human activity is to blame for canada's worst wildfire season on record. >> i think without a doubt, the veracity of the fires, the extent of the burning, the historic nature not just here in british columbia but in greece and nova scotia and united states, just devastating fires

that are clearly linked to human caused climate change. amy: in georgia, rudy giuliani surrendered to the fulton county jail wednesday on charges he conspired to overturn trump's 2020 election loss. giuliani was released on $150,000 bond and told reporters he was "very, very honored to be involved in this case." two other lawyers and co-defendants in trump's racketeering indictment also surrendered wednesday -- sidney powell, who peddled pro-trump election conspiracy theories, and canada cheese -- kenneth chesebro, an architect of the fake electors plot. so far, nine of the 19 co-defendants have turned themselves in. trump is expected to surrender today. republican presidential candidates faced off in their first debate wednesday evening but front runner donald trump refused to take part. during the debate in milwaukee, wisconsin, all eight participants declined to raise

their hands when asked by fox news moderator martha mccallum if human activity was to blame for the climate crisis. >> do you believe in human behavior is causing climate change? raise your hand if you do. >> we are not schoolchildren. let's have the debate. i am happy to take it to start. amy: while trump skipped the debate come he appeared instead in a pretaped interview with former fox news host tucker carlson that was posted on x minutes before the presidential primary debate started. in the interview, trump predicted the u.s. will see more political violence and defended his supporters who attacked the u.s. capitol on january 6, 2021. pres. trump: people in that crowd said it was the most beautiful day they have experienced. there was love and unity. i have never seen such spirit

and such passion and such love. amy: after the headlines, we will air excerpts from the republican primary debate and speak with national affairs correspondent john nichols of the nation magazine in wisconsin. south carolina's supreme court upheld the state's six-week abortion ban, reversing an earlier decision from the court that the ban was unconstitutional. the reversal came after south carolina lawmakers replaced the only woman justice on the bench with a male judge following her retirement and passed a new version of the ban. south carolina the only state to have an all-male state supreme court. it previously allowed abortions until 22 weeks of pregnancy. at least 22 states have banned or rolled back abortion rights since the u.s. supreme court overturned roe v. wade last summer. politico is reporting washington, d.c., attorney general brian schwalb has

launched an investigation into right-wing judicial activist and federalist society co-chair leonard leo and his network of nonprofits. earlier this year, politico reported one of leo's registered charities paid his for-profit public relations company at least $43 million. the charity, which recently relocated from virginia to texas, is called the 85 fund and received $117 million in anonymous funding in 2021. the nonprofit is run by carrie severino, a former clerk for justice clarence thomas. leonard leo is widely known as donald trump court was for and was involved in the selection of all three of former president trump's far-right supreme court justices. it is not the first time leo and his dark money network have come under scrutiny. leo was the recipient of likely the largest ever political donation in the united states what he received $1.6 billion

from conservative billionaire very side in 2021. the watchdog campaign for accountability says some $73 million has been moved from nonprofits connected to leo to his for-profit firms since 2016. india has become the fourth nation to achieve a moon landing. on wednesday, india's robotic chandrayaan-3 lander touched down near the moon's south pole, an unexplored terrain that's believed to hold vast amounts of water ice, which could one day be separated into fuel and air by lunar astronauts. india's united nations ambassador ruchira kamboj said the landing was a milestone for scientists in the global south. >> this achievement not only marks india's present but also symbolizes the aspirations of

1.4 billion indians. beyond that, it is a historic moment for humanity as we venture into uncharted territory near the moon's south pole. amy: india's successful landing came just days after russia's luna-25 spacecraft crashed while attempting to land at another site near the moon's south pole. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. coming up the head of the wagner mercenary group yevgeny prigozhin has apparently died in a praying -- plane crash in russia to month after he led a failed knee against putin. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: billy bragg. he released this song in response to oliver anthony's song which has become a viral right-wing anthem and was referenced at last night's republican presidential debate. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. two months to the day after the private russian mercenary wagner group staged a failed mutiny, the group's head yevgeny prigozhin was apparently killed

in a plane crash north of moscow shortly after 6:00 p.m. local time. eyewitness videos posted online show the plane was missing a wing as it spiraled to the ground. the official passenger list said several other senior wagner members were onboard, including dmitry utkin, veteran wagner group commander evgeniy makaryan who fought with the mercenary group in syria, and longtime prigohzin ally valery chekalov, who was in charge of his business empire, including his oil investments in syria. last month, the united states imposed sanctions on chekalov for facilitating shipments of weapons to russia. the crash spark widespread speculation that prigozhin and other leaders were assassinated for leading a failed mutiny engine that so heavily armed mercenaries advanced within 120 miles on most out. adding to the speculation,

russian media reported wednesday the kremlin has fired the senior russian general as air force chief. the general was known as an ally of the wagner group and had not been seen in public since the mutiny. , co. just three days ago, prigozhin posted his first online videos since leading the failed uprising. he appeared to be somewhere in africa and spoke with a rifle in his hands with other armed men behind him. >> we are working. the temperature is 50 plus degrees celsius. everything as we like, wagner conducts reconnaissance and search actions, makes russia even greater on all continents. justice and happiness for the african people. we are making life a nightmare for isis and al qaeda and other bandits. amy: since prigozhin was killed wednesday, there has been no official comment from the kremlin or defense ministry. russian president vladimir putin

gave a speech about an hour after the plane crash, but he made no reference to it. putin later addressed the brics summit remotely and again did not mention the crash. this was president biden's response when asked to comment on the crash by reporters. pres. biden: i don't know for a fact what happened. i am not surprised. . amy: for more, we are joined by kimberly marten, professor of political science at barnard college, columbia university. she has been researching and writing about the wagner group for years. professor, welcome back to democracy now! your first response yesterday, it was like, close to 1:30 in the afternoon when we heard eastern time that prigozhin possibly was dead.

>> not unexpected at all. we know putin takes revenge on people who are disloyal. it was two months to the day after prigozhin began his mutiny. and it is fitting it happen on an airplane given that as part of that mutiny, prigozhin's men ended up shooting down a series of russian military helicopters and an airplane and killed 13 people. nermeen: professor, can you talk about the other senior wagner leaders who were apparently on this plane with prigozhin? >> probably the most significant one is to call of who was -- chekalov who was in charge of the business part of prigozhin's holdings. prigozhin has many holdings and many very hidden places around the world. but chekalov was associated with

those in syria. it is significant because it appears the wagner personnel in syria had already been taken away from wagner command immediately after the mutiny. we know the russian military personnel on the ground in syria had worked with syrian authorities to either send wagner people home who did not wish to sign new contracts or had the rest sign contracts with somebody else in syria, could have been the russian uniformed military or alternative group that has been performing similar activities and guarding oil and gas facilities for russia and syria. so getting chekalov out of the way was also probably a mechanism to take over those business holdings much more easily. utkin. there were rumors he was killed years ago. he had not been seen publicly in several years except for this very odd video that came out in

july under very low lights that was filmed at the wagner new cap in belarus. there had been speculation maybe that wasn't really utkin and maybe the reason it was filmed and lowlight was true hide summit who is playing the part of utkin. this is essentially a statement by the russian state that these people have been now out of the way, whatever really happened we may not know if they were really killed or just given another identity and sent off to some island somewhere, but it appears these people are no longer significant actors in russia. nermeen: you mentioned reportedly another paramilitary group except this one is headed by russia's defense minister. >> it is not clear that he is the head of it. it has a much closer relationship with the defense ministry then certainly prigozhin's group has had.

it got along well with the defense ministry. in many ways, it will not be an easy substitute for wagner because it does not have wagner 's battle experience. in syria, it was primarily involved in guarding oil and gas facilities that are associated with different russian oligarch -- someone who is much closer to putin than prigozhin ever was. in syria, it would be easy for them to take over the kinds of duties that prigozhin's forces were carrying out more recently. early on in syria, prigozhin's forces were engaged in full battle. in 2020, they recruited a former syrian opposition folks to go fight in libya on behalf of prigozhin's activities in libya. in syria, it would be easy for

them to take over the forces. it appears in recent weeks, the group has been trying to compete against wagner to recruit people for africa as well. but given the task that wagner has been fulfilling and africa are significantly different than just guarding facilities in the central african republic, they have been guarding the leadership that are threatened by rebels, they have been engaged in a lot of real battles with those rebels in mali. they are fulfilling similar duties in sedan -- sudan. they are smuggling gold out of sudan to the united arab emirates for melting down and then sale of the cash back to moscow. in libya, they have been working with -- would be difficult for the group to take those over anytime soon. it is entirely possible some version of wagner will continue operating in africa even without prigozhin.

i don't think they needed prigozhin for those activities with the local commanders on the ground to continue. and because the video we just showed of prigozhin, supposedly the last time he seen, somewhere in africa, if you could talk about that? he was also seen on the outskirts of the africa summit that putin held in st. petersburg. do you believe he is dead? prigozhin obviously is famous for using body doubles. we just know there was a crash. >> complicated questions. on the images, many of them have not been verified. the video that was taken of him that appeared to be in mali, his airplane flew from mali to moscow. at the background was just essentially savanna and it could have been a tv set for all we know.

it is very hard to verify any of those videos or any of those photographs. we do know for sure the russian state has announced somebody with prigozhin's name has been killed. we know prigozhin's media channels are announcing he has been killed. at a building that was formally associated with him in st. petersburg before the mutiny, there were lights on the building last night in the shape of a cross indicating people who were working for him what to give the impression he is killed. whether he is dead or not, he is only dead in his future in russian politics. yes, he did appear he was flying back and forth between the new wagner base cap in the middle of belarus, back and forth to moscow and st. petersburg, participating in the summit that putin held with african leaders in july and then he probably also was in mali a couple of days ago before flight back to

moscow. nermeen: soon after reports of his death emerged, there were numerous telegram channels that were warning of wagner taking revenge and some russian security forces were reportedly put on high alert. are you expecting anything to happen? >> something might happen but it is not clear how it could possibly be successful. it makes sense that putin waited two months to take revenge if that is what happened because the mutineers are no longer located in russian territory. part of the so-called deal that was reached with the president of belarus lukashenko was to put them on belarus territory and there in the middle of belarus. they are in an area that is a rural area without any big cities nearby in the exact center of the country. it would be fairly easy to contain them in belarus without

allowing them back into russia by russian military and security forces. the other thing to keep in mind, the people engaged in the mutiny where the people who earlier in the month of may happened adding in ukraine, eastern -- were fighting in ukraine, eastern ukraine. they were released from p rison if they were willing to fight for wagner for certain number of months. they may have been very loyal to prigozhin because prigozhin arrange this for them, but they were not the kind of fighters we associate with what wagner has done and africa in particular. they were not sophisticated military people. they were former prisoners who were doing this to get out of jail free and certainly they have battle experience in bakhmut but not particular well trained. as part of the deal that move the forces to belarus, wagner

gave up its heavy weaponry it had had in ukraine. that means there armed with just probably things that are similar to kalashnikovs. the other wagner forces are in syria and in several places in africa, the central african republic ,mali, libya, and sudan. the only way they could get back to russia is by taking russian military airplanes would go through the air base that russia now controls in syria. so unless they had support from russian uniformed military forces, they have no way of getting back to russia. so there may be a few people in russia who had been engaged in wagner who recently retired or were "on vacation," who might try something but it is a very small group of people. they are not heavily armed. it is most likely not the best trained members of wagner. so i think probably putin is

pretty safe from any kind of uprising by wagner folks per se. the one question we have is how the russian military fields. there had been reports, and is been detained. we have not seen him publicly since the meeting. he had been identified by prigozhin as his go-between with the defense ministry. he had been charged of russia's aaron space forces and was relieved of those duties. we don't know how many people in the russian military supported prigozhin and what this effect might now have within the russian military forces. i would say so far we have not seen anything happening indicating there would be any kind of additional mutiny. amy: let's and with yale history professor timothy snyder, who's written extensively about russia, posted wednesday -- "so the russian officer who started the donbas war in 2014 is in jail, the only russian general to carry out a

successful new for in has been 2022 relieved of duty, and the only russian commander to take a city of 2023 prigozhin has been murdered." >> i think russia has not been doing as well and ukraine as it hoped to do. i think we are seeing some new energy on behalf of the ukrainians were now launching their counteroffensive. i think all of this political infighting that is happening among secure forces in russia makes russia weaker in the battlefield. so this did nothing to strengthen russia's invasion of ukraine and it appears it has weakened russia. amy: kimberly marten, thank you for being with us, professor of political science at barnard college, columbia university. she has been researching and writing about the wagner group for years. coming up, eight republican presidential candidates faced off in their first debate wednesday night but front-runner donald trump refused to take

part. he is turning himself in today to the fulton county jail to face charges for attempting to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we turn now to the first republican residential debate -- presidential debate of the 2024 race. eight candidates gathered in milwaukee, wisconsin, for a debate hosted by fox news. but frontrunner donald trump refused to attend, opting to sit sit-down interview with former fox host tucker carlson. later today trump will turn himself in at the fulton county jail to face racketeering charges for running a criminal enterprise with 18 co-defendants to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. nine of his codefendants have already turned themselves in, including former new york mayor rudy giuliani and sidney powell

who peddled pro-trump election conspiracy theories. amy: trump's indictment was one of the main issues -- well, one of many issues, i will say main, raised during the debate which saw eight candidates on stage. floor to governor ron desantis, mike pence, chris christie, asa hutchinson, south carolina senator tim scott, former u.n. ambassador nikki haley, 38-year-old val take entrepreneur vivek ramaswamy and north dakota governor doug burgum republican candidates were asked about trump's indictment or the debate by moderators martha mccallum and brett bear. >> were going to take a brief moment and talk about the elephant not in the room. cooks former president trump has been indicted in florida -- four

different states on and one cats and will be processed to martin george at the fulton county jail for charges relating to the 2020 election laws. >> you all signed a pledge to support the eventual republican nominee. if former president trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. [cheers] amy: six of the eight candidates raised their hands. >> hold on. just to be clear, governor christie, late in the game. >> i'm doing this. i am doing this. here is the bottom line. someone has got to stop normalizing these conduct, ok? whether or not you believe that

the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of president of the united states. [cheers] and, you know, this is the great thing about this country, booing is allowed but it doesn't change the truth. [boos] >> you raised your hand supporting -- >> let's just speak the truth. president trump i believe was the best president of the 21st century. honest to god, your claim that donald trump is motivated by vengeance and grievance would be a lot more credible if your entire campaign were not based on vengeance and grievance against one man. [cheers]

donald trump without an iota vision for this country, if it could just change the channel to msnbc right now. i'm not running for president of msnbc, i'm running for president of the united states. we are skating on thin ice. nermeen: that was vivek ramaswamy at last that's republican presidential debate. he went on to question former vice president mike pence. >> mike, joined me in making a commitment that on day one you would pardon donald trump. i'm the only candidate on the stage with the courage to say it. that is how we move our nation forward. >> i don't know that donald trump will be convicted of these crimes. >> you can't make a commitment that the same justice system -- >> i have given pardons and i

was governor of the state of indiana and usually finds -- follows a finding of guilt and contrition by the individual that has been convicted. if i am president, i will give fair consideration. nermeen: vice president pence went on to defend his actions on januray -- january 6, 2021. >> i had hoped the issue surrounding the 2020 election and the controversy around january 6 had not come to criminal proceedings. i would rather they have been resolved by the american people anti-american people alone but no one is above the law and president trump is entitled to the presumption of innocence that every american is entitled to. and we will make sure and extend that to him. at the inner deserve to know -- but the american people deserve to know, that he asked that i reject come he asked me to put

him over the constitution. i chose the constitution and i always will. kamala harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024. amy: former vice president mike pence wednesday at the republican debate in milwaukee, wisconsin. we go now to madison, wisconsin, where we are joined by john nichols, the nation's national affairs correspondent. his latest piece is "the party of the big lie, and the even bigger lie." you were in milwaukee last night, john. talk about the significance of this first republican primary debate without the absolute front-runner, so far ahead, leaves everyone behind him, but then what took place as people clearly did not take trump on when asked the key question, if convicted, would you support

him? six of the eight candidates did. lay out the scene for us. >> it defined by donald trump. i think what happened last night was further evidence that the republican party has become the party of trump. you have eight people on stage who all would like to be the republican nominee, but in many senses, this was a gathering of the people who are almost certain not to be the republican nominee. the polls in favor of trump are overwhelming. he leads the next closest candidate ron desantis by the better part of 40 points and the others are generally in single digits. what you ended up with your was a sort of surreal debate in which candidates one after one another quite aggressively -- at several points it was very chaotic. in many senses, it was like an argument at the kids table at thanksgiving rather than a classic political debate.

you did see a lot of desperation on the part of these candidates to make their name, to use this moment to get at least into the public mind as the clear alternative to trump. what was interesting, while certainly vivek ramaswamy did quite well at that. said some outrageous things and the most aggressive things. i think he came across as a very strong communicator. he often had the crowd on his side, although, not always. what was striking, a couple of other things, the desperation of mike pence. pence seemed at every turn to be trying to get as much time as he could. but it never quite worked and he was often called out by other candidates. another notable thing, ron desantis really did not define himself very well in this debate. he never really had a

breakout moment. if there was a breakout moment for anybody, it might have been nikki haley dressing down ron desantis for his foreign-policy. at the end of the day, the reality was summed up by the question about trump and whether they would support him. by and large, they said they would. in fact, in some cases, aggressively suggesting they would. that created the sense that these candidates are really divided into two camps. one, people who appear in the case of ramaswamy to be trying to be trump's price presidential -- as president -- vice presidential nominee, and try to make a name for post trump moment and that would be haley --christie. i want to go to the former arkansas governor who is not supporting trump.

he raised a very interesting issue that is being written about extensively by more and more conservative legal scholars. this is hutchinson. >> i did not raise my hand because there is an important issue we as a party have to face. and over a year ago, i said that donald trump was morally disqualified from being president again as a result of what happened on january 6. more people are understanding the importance of that, including legal scholars who says he may be disqualified under the 14th amendment for being president again. as a result of the insurrection. this is something that could disqualify him under our rules and under the constitution. and so, obviously, i'm not going to support some of his been convicted of a serious felony or who has -- is disqualified under our constitution. and that is consistent with rnc rules. amy: that his former arkansas

governor asa hutchinson. there were 4000 people in the audience. you can hear him being booed. you have written extensively about the 14th amendment was to conservative legal scholars are also writing about this. explain. >> the 14th amend midsection 3 is a post-civil war section, amendment. it deals with people who swear an oath to the united states and then in a position of power take actions that might up in the government, might in some way cause a political crisis of a sort that we saw certainly during the civil war that many people believe we saw were recently with trump's efforts to overturn the election. certainly different actions by any measure but at the end of the day, a failure to abide by

it, the basic structures of the casa touche and. people generally have been on the left. in recent months, you've seen conservative legal scholars and even some conservative activists bring this issue up. it is a legitimate issue, a complex one, because the constitution doesn't really lay out how you enforce this standard. but the standard is that it someone swore a note to the government either encouraged or supported in insurrection and then seeks to return to government, that they can't do so, they cannot continue to hold office. there's a lot of interpretation and all sorts of ways on this but as asa hutchinson pointed out, this is something that has been raised, a genuine concern

regards to trump. if he is convicted, he could become an even bigger concern, especially in the washington, d.c. case, or the georgia case, both of which talk about attempting to overturn an election. amy: it would be individual secretaries of state gets a tromp is not going to be on our state ballot? >> theoretically, that is one way to do it. certainly, that is one thing several groups have raised as a possibility. there is also the possibility that congress itself could take action and be a resolution, say, that it is the determination of the congress of the united states that donald trump is in violation of 14.3. there are several ways to go at this. no matter what happens, if it were to occur, if a secretary of state were to bar donald trump from the ballot, would have a legal fight. i think what is significant with

asa hutchinson bringing this up in the debate is it brought this issue more to the forefront. i think it opens up, hopefully, a broader discussion about the clear constitutional concerns as regard to someone like donald trump seeking to return to the presidency. nermeen: although donald trump come the leading candidate, skipped the debate, he appeared instead in a pretaped interview with former fox news host tucker carlson on the social media platform x, formally known as twitter. >> do you think we are moving toward civil war? >> there is tremendous passion and there's tremendous love. you know, january 6 was an interesting day because they don't report it properly. i believe it was the largest crowd i have ever spoken before. you know some of the crowds i have spoken before step five july 4 on the mall. i think they had a million

people. i think it was january 6 and people in that crowd, a very small group of people, peaceful and patriotically, go peacefully and patriotically -- no one ever says that. people in that that day, a small group of people, went down there and there are a lot of scenarios that we can talk about, but people in that crowd said it was the most beautiful day they have ever experienced. there was love. love and unity. i have never seen such spirit and such passion and such love. and i have also never seen tumble tennis the and from the same people such -- simultaneously and from the same people such hatred and what they avenge our country. >> do you think there is open conflicts? folks i don't know because i don't know what -- i can say

this, there's a level of passion that i've never seen, level of hatred that i have never seen and that is probably a bad commendation. nermeen: john nichols, your response to trump's comments to fired fox host tucker carlson? and vivek ramaswamy mimicked his line he said, america is an internal sort of cold cultural civil war. thus night he said. >> i was in madison, wisconsin, january6, so i can't attest to what donald trump thinks he saw but my sense of what occurred on that day is very different than his. i think the same goes for committees that have investigated it and others. trump is clearly putting his spin on this but the most troubling thing is he is suggesting that there is a

possibility for additional violence. that is a deeply unsettling statement by a former president, the frontrunner in a presidential race. and it also does parallel what some of the candidates are saying, especially ramaswamy, who has suggested a very dark vision of america most of in fact, he explicitly rejected ronald reagan's warning in america statement from back in the 1980's and argued things are pretty awful and potentially could get worse. you do have a split from the republican party of the past to a party that is much more, for lack of a better turn, combative. amy: last night the candidates were also asked about the climate crisis. this was on a day when the heat in milwaukee forced the closing

of the milwaukee schools. during the debate, fox news played a question from a student at a catholic university. >> polls show young people's number one issue is climate change. how will you as both president and leader of the republican party calm their fears that the republican party doesn't care about climate change? >> we want to start with a show of hands. do you believe in human behavior is causing climate change? >> we are not schoolchildren. let's have the debate. i'm happy to take it to start. i don't think that is the way -- let me say, first of all, one of the reasons our country is in decline is because of the way the corporate media treats republicans versus democrats. biden was on the beach while those people were suffering. he was asked about it in said, no comment. are you kidding me? as someone who is handled

disasters in florida, have to be activated. you have to be present, helping people. >> answer the question -- is that a yes? is that a hand raised? >> i think it is for him and my hands are in my pocket. let us be honest. i'm the only one on the stage that is not bought and paid for. >> whoa whoa whoa. >> [indiscernible] >> the anti-carbon agenda is the wet blanket on our account of me. -- economy. more people are dying from bad climate change policies than they are of actual climate change. >> hold on, hold on. >> i've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like chatbt stand here in the last

person in one of these debates who stood in the middle of the stage and said, what is a skinny guy with an odd lasting doing that appeared was barack obama and i'm afraid we're dealing with the same type of amateur -- >> give me a hug like you did obama. give me that bear hug. >> hold on, hold on. would you like to respond? >> i think this is exactly why margaret thatcher said if you want something said, sk men. if you want something done, ask a woman. first of all, we did care about clean air, clean water. we want to see that taking care of. but there is a right way to do it. first of all, yes, is climate change real? yes, it is. but if you want to change the environment, we need to start

telling china and india they have to lower their omissions. amy: that was former u.s. abbasid or to the united nations nikki haley who was the south carolina governor. john nichols, very quickly, before we move on to foreign? >> we saw peak climate denial in a republican debate and it is kind of amazing at this late stage in history that it was a, stated come and be, even on the candidates who weren't quite as aggressive as ramaswamy, there was avoidance. in that clip you played, the candidates and neatly tried to go off to other topics to talk about whether they were bought and paid for, to talk about china, russia, rather than focus on the issue that was raised. i think this sums up the republican party at this point. the moderate position in the republican party is avoidance. but i think a very strong position is, very popular

position within the party is one of actual denial. you saw a candidate on stage go full board on that, which was quite remarkable, especially at a day when literally the heat index was 140 degrees in milwaukee. nermeen: republican candidates were asked about the word rain -- or in ukraine. >> you not support an increase in funding to ukraine? i would not. i think this is disastrous. it is an invasion across someone else's board room we should use those military resources for our own southern border. the russia-china alliance is the single greatest threat we face. i find it offensive we have professional politicians that will make a pilgrimage to kyiv come to their pope zelenskyy, without and the same thing to maui or the south side of

chicago. americans first secure our own border instead of somebody else's. >> a win for russia is a win for china. ukraine is the first line of defense for us in the problem that vivek doesn't understand, he was the hand ukraine to russia, let china keep taiwan, stopped funding israel. you don't do that to friends. what you do is you have the backs have your friends. ukraine is the frontline of defense. we are trying to prevent war. look what putin did today. he killed prigozhin. this guy is a murderer. you are accusing a -- choosing a murderer. >> first of all --

[indiscernible] >> i'm not on the board of lockheed and raytheon. >> you been pushing this lie all week. >> you want to defend israel? you want to give -- >> false lie. [indiscernible] >> you have no foreign policy experience. >> you mentioned the territorial dispute. >> it is not a territorial dispute, either. >> your first obligation is to defend our country and its people. and that means you are spending all of this money but you're not doing what we need to do to secure our own border. we have tens of thousands of people who are being killed -- >> [indiscernible] >> i'm going to declare it a

national emergency. i'm not going to send troops to ukraine but i am going to send them to our southern border. when these drug pushers are bringing fentanyl across the border, that is going to be the last thing they do. we are going to use force and leave them stone cold dead. nermeen: that was ron desantis. before that, nikki haley and also vivek ramaswamy. john nichols, your response? >> it was very remarkable exchange. you could write books about just those few minutes. you clearly saw the america first position that donald trump articulate it in many cases his predecessor but even taken to greater extremes by ramaswamy and to a lesser extent by desantis. but what was fascinating in the exchange, nikki haley emerged as i think one of the most effective communicators on

the stage and one of the most aggressive communicators. she is nowhere near the others in the polls. she has a long way to go, but she clearly is doing a better job, frankly, then some of the other candidates who are attempting to distinguish themselves. you saw the crowd's reaction to her. what was fascinating is the extent to which ramaswamy refused to back down. he actually suggested that haley was trying of her place on the boards of defense contractor. he was a very aggressive hit and one that i think was notable because it gets to i think a lot of the deep divisions within the republican party about foreign policy. i wish the moderators had played this out a little more and given more time to a deeper investigation. i think it is especially notable that desantis was desperately trying to get into the

discussion became in not with particularly deep insights but just the repetition of talking points about the border. amy: john nichols, thank you for being with us, the nation's national affairs correspondent. we will link to your latest piece "the party of the big lie, and the even bigger lie." this even on the

(dog barks) (dramatic music) - [rita] this is dua fatima. at just six months old, she's been diagnosed with a life-threatening condition. she needs multiple surgeries to stand any chance of living beyond infancy. - (speaking foreign language)