08/29/23 08/29/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> for justice system needs to deal with the erosion of democracy, and it is true in american history that if we don't do with people who try to overthrow elections that they will do it again. that is what we're try to prevent an fulton county. amy: the u.s. history judge tanya chutkan has set march 4

for donald trump's trial for plotting to overturn the 2020 election. we will go to georgia to speak with the cofounder of black voters matters as well as a law professor who was inside the georgia courtroom when trump's former chief of staff mark meadows testified monday in an attempt to get his trial moved to a federal court. then to jacksonville, florida. >> our community is grappling to understand why this atrocity occurred. i urge us all to not look for since in a senseless act of violence. there is no explanation. his ideology is not representative of the jacksonville community that we love so much. amy: vigils are continuing in jacksonville, florida, after a white supremacist gunman fatally shot three black people at a dollar store saturday. we will get the latest and look at another incident of racial violence in jacksonville 63

years ago this week, klansmen armed with wooded ax handles attacked peaceful civil rights activists who were trying to re-segregate the lunch counters. the day became known as ax handle saturday. >> human ponds, white males in confederate uniforms handing out x. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. a federal judge in washington, d.c., has set march 4, 2024 as the first day of former president donald trump's criminal trial for plotting to overturn the 2020 election. trump's lawyers had argued the trial should be delayed until april 2026. instead, it is set to begin one day before super tuesday

presidential primaries. meanwhile, trump's former white house chief of staff mark meadows testified before a federal judge in georgia monday as part of an effort to move his trial from state court to federal court. meadows is one of trump's 18 co-defendants in the georgia case. arraignments for that case are scheduled for september 6. we'll have more on the criminal legal cases against trump and his allies after headlines. the university of north carolina chapel hill says a suspect has been arrested for fatally shooting a faculty member in a science building monday. unc officials have yet to identify the staffer who was killed or possible motive in the shooting which prompted campuswide lockdown that lasted for nearly three hours and prompted security alerts that disrupted classes at public schools on the first day of the school year throughout chapel hill. meanwhile in california, investigators say the gunman who killed three and wounded six others at a southern california

biker bar last week was a retired police sergeant who traveled from ohio to confront his estranged wife. former venture police officer use three handguns and a shotgun during the massacre, all of which he purchased legally. republican lawmakers in tennessee have voted once again to silence state representative justin jones, a black democrat from nashville, who was previously expelled from the house then re-elected to office this summer for leading protests against gun violence. on monday, state representative jones was barred by republicans from speaking for the remainder of the day after he made critical comments about a bill to bring more police officers into tennessee's schools. after protesters in the house gallery erupted into chants of "fascists!" and "racists!" republicans ordered state police to remove the public, including the parents of students who died from gun violence.

this is state representative justin jones speaking from outside tennessee's capitol building just after he was silenced. >> what we're seeing is this application of abusive rules under the leadership of cameron sexton. members were taken out of the gallery. our caucus walked out in solidarity because what is happening is not democratic. it is very troubling what we're witnessing. you can see the capitol is surrounded by troopers. this does not look like a democratic body anymore. amy: before he was silenced, state representative jones had been planning to force a vote of no confidence in the leadership of cameron sexton, the speaker of the tennessee house of representatives. justin jones interview with democracy now! you can see at democracynow.org on monday it was his 28th birthday. the leader of sudan's military junta has ruled out a quick end

to months of fighting with the rapid support forces, condemning the rival paramilitary group as traitors in a speech to soldiers. general abdel fattah al-burhan made the remarks monday after the head of the rsf said he was open to a long-term ceasefire and talks to end sudan's crisis. this comes as the united nations warns of severe malnourishment among sudan's children. a u.n. spokesperson said the fighting has internally displaced more than 3.6 million people, while nearly 1 million have fled sudan's borders. >> the longer this fighting continues, the more devastating its impact is going to be. hundreds of thousands of children are already severely malnourished and at imminent risk of death if left untreated. millions more will have education replaced the devastating traumas of war, becoming a lost generation. amy: france's ambassador to niger is defying an ultimatum from leaders of the military junta to leave his post within 48 hours. on monday, french president emmanuel macron said from paris

that niger's former colonial ruler would continue to support the deposed president mohamed bazoum and would support efforts by the regional block ecowas to restore him by force if necessary. >> our policy is simple, we do not wreck nice coup leaders. we support the president who has not resigned. we are committed to standing by his side. we support diplomatic efforts by ecowas. amy: guatemala's supreme electoral tribunal has certified bernardo arevalo's victory in last week's presidential election runoff. earlier monday, a separate body ordered the suspension of arevalo's progressive semilla party, throwing the results in two -- into disarray as the party vowed to appeal its suspension. guatemala's attorney general's office is investigating allegations of irregularities in semilla's legal registration process, accusations semilla and supporters say are part of an ongoing scheme by the guatemalan corrupt business and political

elite to discredit the democratic movement that propelled them into power. arevalo received 60% of the vote, beating former first lady sandra torres, who's backed by the right wing elite. arevalo has vowed to fight corruption and push for social reforms. he's inauguration in guatemala city, alongside vice president-elect karin herrera, is scheduled for january 14. hurricane idalia skirted the western coast of cuba early this morning as it closed in on florida's western coast, where it's expected to rapidly intensify ahead of its landfall wednesday as a category 3 storm with potentially life-threatening storm surges. most of florida's gulf coast remains under hurricane or tropical storm warnings, with evacuation orders issued for residents in low-lying areas of several counties, including the greater tampa bay region, which has avoided a direct hurricane impact for nearly a century. idalia is expected to bring up to 12 feet of storm surge to florida's big bend region. four asylum-seekers have died

after their boat capsized off the greek island of lesbos monday. there were 18 survivors taken into custody by greek authorities, including refugees believed to be from yemen, palestine, and somalia. the biden administration has known saudi security forces were killing ethiopian asylum seekers since at least last fall and chose to keep it quiet. that's according to "the new york times," which reported united nations officials in 2022 presented the u.s. with information about saudi border guards shooting ethiopian asylum seekers, including women and children. the gruesome abuse was exposed by a human rights watch report earlier this month. a document and how hundreds and possibly thousands of asylum-seekers have been killed. the group said saudi authorities shot machine guns and fired explosive weapons at asylum seekers who were fleeing human rights abuses in ethiopia's tigray region and attempted to cross the yemen-saudi border. guards also executed people at close range. the report cited firsthand accounts from 42 ethiopian

asylum seekers, over 100 verified videos and photos, and an analysis of satellite imagery. the biden administration has not publicly criticized saudi arabia, a close ally, for the killings. to see our coverage, go to democracynow.org. a young palestinian man has died of his wounds nearly two months after he was shot in the head during an israeli army raid in the occupied west bank. 20-year-old ezzedin kanan was from the town of jaba outside the city of jenin. he's one of at least 172 palestinians killed by israeli forces since the start of the year. human rights watch once last year was the deadliest year for palestinian children in the west bank in 15 years, and this year is on track to meet or exceed last year's levels. human rights watch added in a statement, "unless israel's allies, particularly the united states, pressure israel to change course, more palestinian children will be killed." u.s. commerce secretary gina

raimondo is in china for a four-day visit aimed at reducing tensions over taiwan. speaking from beijing after a meeting with her counterpart on monday, raimondo said the biden administration wants to maintain a stable economic relationship with china and more than $700 billion of mutual trade between the u.s. and china. >> the vast majority of our trade and investment relationship does not involve national security concerns. in this regard, and committed to promoting trade and investment in those areas that are in our mutual best interest. amy: and in colorado, the city of denver has reached a $4.7 million settlement with more than 300 black lives matter activists who were brutally arrested by police in the summer of 2020. the settlement was unanimously approved by the denver city council cited with protesters who said police violated their first amendment rights. the class action lawsuit accused denver police of using violent

tactics against hundreds of protesters to enforce a curfew enacted in response to the massive racial justice actions following the police murder of george floyd in minnesota. protesters described denver police fired tear gas, flashbang grenades, pepper balls, rubber bullets, and other projectiles without giving them time to disperse. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. coming up, we look at the trials of donald trump. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "nobody can live forever" by tim maia. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, with juan gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: the federal trial of donald trump for plotting to overturn the 2020 election is now set to begin in washington, d.c., on

march 4, 2024, one day before the super tuesday presidential primaries. district judge tanya chutkan selected the date on monday. trump's legal team had asked for the trial to be delayed until 2026, while special counsel jack smith had proposed a january 2024 start date. in making their case for delaying the trial, trump's legal team cited the 1931 case of the scottsboro boys, a group of black teenagers who were quickly tried and convicted after being falsely accused of raping a white woman. the supreme court eventually reversed their convictions judge chutkan rejected the argument saying trump's case is "profoundly different." she wrote -- "i have seen many cases unduly delayed because a defendant lacks adequate representation. this is not the case here."

meanwhile, former white house chief of staff mark meadows testified before a federal judge in georgia monday as part of an effort to move his trial from state to federal court. meadows is one of trump's 18 co-defendants in the georgia case. arraignments for that case are scheduled for september 6. we go now to atlanta where we are joined by two guests. cliff albright is co-founder and executive director of black voters matter. anthony michael kreis is an assistant professor of law at georgia state university. he was in the courtroom monday where mark meadows testified. let's begin there, professor. you are in the courtroom. talk about what mark meadows is arguing for, moving the case to federal court, and the surprise that he himself testified for hours. what exactly he said and what is now on the record that can be used against him in the trial. >> mark meadows really wanted to

get his case removed and tried not in fulton county state court, but he wanted in federal court. partially because the jury pool might be more favorable for him and because i think there is an expectation that federal rules and procedure might be more favorable. mark meadows essentially has to show he was acting at least plausibly within the scope of his employment as chief of staff to president trump, and that is why he is entitled to this removal. there was a lot of debate and discussion about whether these actions are consistent with his job, consistent with the federal interest that would warrant removal. he gave a lot a very general explanations that were not particularly persuasive. what was somewhat surprising, yes, the fact he testified because he is under criminal indictment stub he was open across the -- indictment.

he was open to cross-examination. the big thing i think we should focus on here is he has very few answers for some of the issues in the evidence the da proffer that showed he was working with the campaign as chief of staff, which is unlawful under the hatch act -- a federal law that says some federal plays cannot engage -- parson election hearing. he did not have a good answer for why he offered to have -- get the assistance of trump campaign funds to engage in an audit ability or in fulton county and the phone call between brad raffensperger and donald trump through the election campaign official. and he had really no answer for why if he thought this was really about the federal government ensuring free and fair elections here in georgia, that he never roped in or read

into his calls people from the department of justice or the department of homeland security. i think he really had a very bad day. the threshold, to be clear, is very low to bring a case in the federal court from state court for those who have been former federal employees, that i do think he had a rough time on the stand. juan: professor, what was your sense of how the judge was reacting to his testimony in particular and disposition of potentially moving the case to federal court? >> well, i think there are a couple of truths here. first, mark meadows is a pretty affable guy. in terms of his testimony, he seemed cooperative. he seemed quite likable, which is great if you want to put your client on the stand. i think that is partially why he was put on the stand is because

he is a pretty decent personality. i think that came across. however, at the same time, there were a number of moments where he seemed to be evasive or seemed to give answers that droned on in order to avoid answering the question that the fulton county das office posed to him. i think the judge a number of times redirected mark meadows to provide more direct, clearer answers that spoke to what the da was trying to ask. that is not a great thing because the judge ultimately has to decide whether witness is credible and -- in deciding these kinds of questions. i think in some respects, his testimony was a mixed bag. he came across as being somewhat cooperative and easy-going and his demeanor was generally good for a defendant in the situation, but at the same time,

i think the judge was skeptical of his evasiveness. juan: there will be at least some of the defendants who will have speedier trial later this year, including kenneth chesebro. what is your sense of the implications of this for trump himself, that in essence the prosecution will have to put much of its case in that trial ahead of time so that the trump defense team when he does come to trial will have a pretty good sense of all of the strategy of the prosecution. >> i think it is a double-edged sword. the first threshold issue is that judge scott mcafee will be the one who decides when the trials occur. there is not necessarily a given that donald trump will be tried separately from the individuals who have asked for speedy trial. so that is kind of a threshold question we don't really have an

answer to. but in the event these are severed, the double-edged sword is basically this -- on the one hand, donald trump's team will get a taste of what the evidence is that has not been publicly released, how the prosecutor will approach this, and will find ways perhaps to poke holes in evidence when it comes time for donald trump to come to trial. on the other hand, the same thing is true of the da. the da can learn what kinds of arguments might work better or may not work so well against donald trump. this could be a test trial. the real danger for donald trump is the fact when you have a number of defendants proceeding earlier, the likelihood is that there will be one or maybe more who will give evidence inadvertently that incriminate's donald trump. they will point fingers at donald trump or other people who are higher up in the food chain. and there is the potential for some of these defendants to strike deals.

i think it is really unlikely that fani willis will allow people to engage in plea deals that either gives them very light sentences or essentially a slap on the wrist without fundamentally admitting that they engaged in unlawful racketeering scheme. that can be dangerous for donald trump, too. i think it cuts in two different ways. there are a lot of variables that we still have to sort through in fulton county, whether these cases will be in state court versus federal court , when the trials will occur, are there codefendants carly engaged in negotiation to turn state's evidence for the prosecution's benefit? so there is a lot of open ended questions that remain. amy: i want to bring cliff albright into the conversation, cofounder and executive director of black voters matter. can you once again frame this as a voting rights issue?

as a massive violation of voting rights in georgia, this rico case that has been brought against the president of the united states, his chief of staff, what they did in your state of georgia? >> to be clear, we have to be honest that what trump was attacking, this entire conspiracy -- it wasn't just trump. at least 19 co-conspirators come even more that are not indicted at this white. what they were attacking wasn't even necessarily all voters of georgia. the big picture was voters. they were specifically going after black voters. specifically upset about fulton county voters, the same way they were upset about pennsylvania but they were really upset about pennsylvania the same way they were upset about michigan. there were just upset about detroit. this attack on voters overall but particularly targeted at black voters, we cannot

underestimate the scale of it. even if we look at one aspect of it, until recently, underreported aspect of the coffee county break income their breach in the security system -- again, this is a county that had a history of suppressing black voters, attacking black activists -- the georgia secretary of state spent more time and resources investigating one woman, olivia pearson, just for helping people be able to vote and they have spent investigating the coffee county breach. all of this we have to put in the context of the wider suppression of black votes and the risk to our voting systems in this entire democracy. what happens in one county or state could jeopardize the entire nation. amy: can you talk, cliff albright, but what is happening

at two levels with an attack on fani willis herself, the fulton county d.a.? you have the beginning of this legal battle between georgia republicans and willis as they may potentially try to remove her from office using senate bill 92, the law signed by governor brian kemp states are prosecutor can be removed for "conduct or judicial to the administration of justice which brings the office into disrepute"? and most recently, ohio congressman jim jordan, chair of the house judiciary committee, the u.s. congress, announcing he is opening an inquiry into willis, questioning whether she had collaborated with the biden administration in targeting any federal funding her office received. so she will be taking on these investigations at the same time she is bringing this rico conspiracy case against the 19, including the former president.

>> of course you have those threats which are illegal and administrative threats but also the other threats we also know about, the physical threats, the intimidation of violence which is a whole other story. it and those two political threats, you would like to not even take the jim jordan threat seriously. he is threatening to subpoena her. what we know is that is not going to go anywhere. she is under no obligation to respond. we also know to assert next dent, trump possibly trying to protect himself, implicated in some of these overall conspiracy, not the actual charges that have been filed but in terms of his overall involvement in this plan and some of the white house meeting since i want and so forth, the far more serious one, other than the federal one that jordan is leading into state version -- which at the time we all knew, many of us, including myself,

worn this was being targeted directly at fani willis and also directed at other da's, republicans in the state feel are not being "tough on crime." that they are not imposing the harshest sentences or going aggressively after marijuana cases. also targeted at da's that have said they would not be aggressive in enforcing abortion rules and law that goes for georgia as well as florida and elsewhere. but would georgia in particular analysis law, we knew they had fani willis squarely in their targets. that is what we are seeing. we could very well see a situation where this date, by the way trump cannot receive a pardon from the governor in this state. the only way for him to derail this is to derail the actual charges and actual litigation, and that is what they're trying to do by threatening fani willis. it speaks to the point of said

several times, there is more than one way to overturn an election. the trump investigation is one way. we are seeing time and again with da's, with mayors, with city councils, with legislators that you talked about earlier in the show in terms of tennessee, that they are finding was to overturn elections by simply removing people from offices, restricting their jurisdictions so they don't get to control which territories -- see jackson, mississippi -- or in some cases, limiting their powers to be able to investigate or take certain actions imprinting certain loss. there's more than one way to overturn an election, and black voters have been experiencing this long before trump stepped on the scene. juan: cliff albright, i want to go back to the coffee county incident, one of the central parts of this rico indictment. for those people who are not

aware, talk more specifically about what is alleged that happened in coffee county under part of some of the trump supporters and campaign folks. >> great question because it is a complicated piece of the puzzle that a lot of people don't understand. i want to give shout out to marilyn who did a lot of great work. the country would not know what happened in coffee county if not for litigation and activism that was already taking place in the county even before some of these federal and state investigation started. to put it simply, had local officials in coffee county who allegedly gave an invite to certain trump-related agents, for them to come in and inspect the computer systems and the software in the voter

information in coffee county. we know officials from the secretary of state's office, georgia investigators, actually came into the office at a time when you had unauthorized agents in the very office where there is not supposed to be any other access other than the county election officials. but there were people in that office and they knew it. it was on video. nothing was done. no investigation was done at the state level. why this is part of the overall conspiracy is because of the nature of george's election systems and the way the state mandates the machines and the systems for the entire state and the way they're connected -- just coming in the door in coffee county does not get you access to coffee county voters the way our friends have put it is that picture the georgia election systems and voter information as being a safe that has 159 doors to get into the

safe. you can get into that safe through any of those doors but then you have access to the entire system. so it is not just they breached coffee county, they breached the entire state. in doing so, they put the entire election at risk and future elections. mind you, georgia has not changed anything in the system so our upcoming 2024 elections are still using the same system that we know has been breached. amy: i went to bring anthony michael kreis into the conversation on the other trial of the federal trial and the significance of the judge there, judge chutkan setting march 4 of next year. we're talking about two trials. you mark meadows wanting to make this a federal trial in georgia. still trump could not be pardoned even if it is a federal trial, though it will drop from

a larger more white jury pool if it becomes a federal trial not just fulton county. but on this other case, march 4, the significance of this, then the significance of trump's lawyer raising the case of the scottsboro boys as why trump should be charged -- tried in two years rather than next year? >> yes, it is offensive so i think the important lesson from the scottsboro boys case is in alabama and the early 1930's, powers that be who use the criminal justice system in order to reenter was white supremacy, all-white juries, rushed sham trials, lack of criminal processes and procedure. that is not what is happening here in washington, d.c., in the special counsel case at all.

donald trump has been afforded every opportunity to have a robust defense. the evidence being laid before the federal court has been the byproduct of a very long intense investigation. it is real evidence. he has every opportunity to actually large a defense in court in a trial and poke holes in that evidence in front of a jury of his peers. it is simply not an apt or relevant observation that the lawyer made. i think the other thing that is important to note is that the defense strategy has been one to also attack the wording, the citizenship, the ability of washington, d.c. residents to self govern and be good, impartial jurors.

often they are racially motivated. the ability of black americans to be good citizens this question. given that context, it is especially offensive to raise the scottsboro boys as some kind of sign or to point to them and claim donald trump is a victim of some unlawful, unruly criminal justice process can to 1930's alabama. it is simply false. juan: professor, i would ask you about the date of this federal trial march 4, just as the super tuesday primaries are about to start. the likelihood trump will be in effect already after super tuesday the presumptive

candidate of the republican party for president and yet he will still be in the midst of a trial and the impact that will have on our politics? >> i think it is a real test for our constitutional order and our political system. ultimately, donald trump i think will be on the one hand afforded every right that he is entitled to under the constitution and under federal rules of criminal procedure, and that is a real testament to our system. on the other hand, while donald trump will be the nominee by all accounts or at least likely accounts from our vantage point right now, the american public also should be entirely aware all the evidence that has been under a special counsel's office and fani willis before they make a decision to vote or not to vote for donald trump should he be the nominee, november 2024.

that is a really important thing in terms of giving the public -- the voting public the information necessary to make good choices. i think it is also important to note even if donald trump were convicted of a crime in d.c., if -- even in georgia for that matter. and if elected president in 2024, he could not only pardoned himself from the federal crimes and make those cases go away, but he also could basically be forcing the state of georgia jesus been further criminal proceedings or even spring him from imprisonment should that be a consequence from potential conviction. so he can run the country. that is a really interesting dynamic. it forces another question about whether he would be eligible under the 14th amendment given the fact that charges here allege in washington, d.c.,

essentially say he engaged in an activity that deprived people of their civil rights or conspiracy to attempt to deprive people of their civil rights and part and parcel of that was january 6. people engaged in violent insurrectionist activities against the united states government and blocked a proceeding of the united states government in order to thwart a peaceful transition of power and they did so as part of this conspiracy to deprive people of their constitutional rights under the united states constitution to have their vote counted freely and fairly. i think people deserve to have the full body of evidence before them before they make this very important decision. amy: anthony michael kreis is an assistant professor of law at georgia state university and cliff albright is co-founder and executive director of black voters matter, both speaking from atlanta. coming up, vigils continued in florida after a white supremacist gunman federally

shot -- fatally shot three black at a dollar store saturday. back in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "tell him" by lauryn hill. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. vigils in jacksonville, florida, are continuing after a white supremacist gunman shot and killed three black people at a dollar store on saturday. the gunman, who had a swastika on his ar-15-style gun, attacked a dollar store in a predominately black neighborhood after being turned away from the campus of edward waters university, an hbcu historically , black college. the gunman shot himself dead after the rampage. jacksonville sheriff t.k. waters spoke to reporters. >> our community is grappling to understand why this atrocity occurred. i urge us all not to look for sense in a senseless act of violence. there's a reasonable explanation. -- there is no reasonable expedition.

we are not the community of hate. we stand united with the good and decent people of this city. amy: saturday's shooting occurred at the same time that thousands were gathering in washington, d.c., to mark the 60th anniversary of the march on washington when dr. martin luther king gave his "i have a dream" speech. the jacksonville shooting also occurred as civil rights activists in jacksonville were preparing to remember the 63rd anniversary of ax handle saturday. on august 27, 1960, a white mob led by the ku klux klan violently attacked black protesters who were engaged in peaceful sit-ins in jacksonville. we are going to play a piece about that in a moment. but right now we are joined now by two guests. rodney hurst is a civil rights leader from jacksonville, a historian and the award-winning author of several books. former president of the naacp youth council in jacksonville that helped lead sit-in protests

in jacksonville in 1960. we are also joined by democratic congressmember maxwell alejandro frost of florida. the first afro-cuban american and first member of generation z to serve in congress. frost is the former national organizing director for march for our lives, which was formed by survivors of the parkland shooting in florida. from the parkland shooting to what was on in jacksonville, let's begin with rodney hurst. our condolences to your whole community. three dead. the so familiar as we saw what happened in buffalo at the tops grocery store. can you talk about how people are responding and what they are demanding right now in jacksonville? thank you so much for joining us as jacksonville looks like it is in the target of the storm, the hurricane that is making its way up from cuba. >> honored to be with you. we are in another hurricane that will come through jacksonville later this week, but this

hurricane of racism that we have been dealing with in the jacksonville community is not new. it is almost as if it is a recurring-type circumstance. jacksonville's community, obviously, is outraged. the black community is outraged. there was a prayer vigil. the governor showed up at the prayer vigil. he was booed by a number of black folk who were there because his rhetoric, the jargon that has dribbled out of his mouth has set the atmosphere for the kinds of racism that we have seen that has plowed the ground for the fertility of what is happening in this country right now. they have taken -- they, being the desantises the donald

trump's of this country -- they have taken conversations from private sources to public and some of the things they used to whisper they are saying publicly. the other problem that i think we need to deal with is that there is a silence in the christian community. we don't see the outrage with what has happened with white folk here in jacksonville. there are some, obviously, so this will be a broadbrush. but you need to feel that outrage. but what happens is when you are dealing with the circumstance -- and in his country where black from the founding of this country have been so disrespected and insulted because they were considered nothing more than property -- and it is very easy to see what happens to us is something, oh, well, it is them and not us and

if people go on about their business. but that is not how the way you govern, that is not how you develop a community and bring people together. juan: rodney hurst, you talk about back in 1960, your involvement in the civil rights movement, the attack you suffered on what is called ax handle saturday after dozens of why people attack you and other peaceful protesters at a lunch counter with ax handles and baseball bats? how far do you think jacksonville has come in these past 70? so years? amy: actually, before you lay it out here, we would like to give some credit to your grandson in law who did an amazing short documentary where he brings us the video footage and you describing what happened called

"unless we tell it" directed by kyle dorrell. it features you, rodney hurst, who served as the president of the naacp youth council in jacksonville, which organized the sit-ins in 1960. let's go to a clip of that. >> during the summer, we sat in all the lunch counters and downtown jacksonville. we had more than 85 young people that day. some of the seeds people were sitting -- every fake it seat we sat -- every vacant seat was set in. they said, we don't serve new gross here. you can be served in the back. the manager came out and he read

a card and after he read is the card, he close the lunch counter. then whites stood behind us yelling racial epithets, jungle bunny [bleep]. so we always sat longer than lunchtime because we figured that they served fresh lunches. there were no microwaves, no convection ovens. so if you wanted your racism, we wanted to make it as expensive as possible so we sat longer than the lunchtime. we saw no police the entire time. we later found out that the police were there in planes clothes because they were taking pictures of all of us. you would think the slogan to protect and serve would mean something. it did not mean anything when it

came to those of us who were sitting in as we have seen in sit-in demonstrations. they did not care about your age. they cared less about who you were coming at or female, young or old, her skin was black and whatever you got, you deserved. the end of that week was august 27. got a call, never did tell us who got the call from, but got a call saying -- his word to us was, there were some strange goings on at inman park. so when he got down to the park, there were white males in confederate uniforms handing out ax handles. so when we had our meeting that morning at the presbyterian

church youth center, mr. pearson told us what was going on. mr. pearson's words were, something could happen today. we proceeded anyway. it was healthy fear but it was determined courage. we did not go to woolworth that day, we went to grants, which was on the corner of adams and maine. again, they closed the lunch counter. so as we walked out of grants and turned on adams street, i got this panorama. i saw a guy up on top of a truck with his camera. i heard the commotion and saw people in the distance running down adams street and could not quite visualize what was happening. then i saw the guy on top of the truck, the camera knocked off of

the truck by semi-swinging something. in short period of time, we realize this was a mob and they were coming for us. stores on adams street started locking the doors. her only option was to run. i ran down main street. somebody picked me up and took me to the presbyterian church youth center. slowly, members of the youth council started coming back crying, the rumors started flying somebody got killed, somebody got beat up. two patrolmen from the sheriff's department showed up. they said they wanted to talk to us. but the pastor was there, wilbert miller. reverend miller who was the pastor of the presbyterian church was about 5'7" and he looked up at the patrolmen 6'1" saying, you will not set foot on

church property. and they did not. >> jacksonville, florida, mayor burns stated the horrific events of that day never happened. >> we had a press conference at the home of a black doctor, a dentist. from there we planned a mass meeting at the corner of 13th and myrtle. we also heard the klan was going to march in the black community that night. so there were blacks sitting inside their cars with guns and rifles in case the klan decided they wanted to come down myrtle avenue. we had reporters from all over the country. the church look like an international press conference. we announced the boycott of downtown jacksonville.

>> over the next several months, a strategic plan was put into place by an unofficial biracial committee to integrate the downtown lunch counters. >> when we went down to woolworths five days in a row to the white lunch counter, ate at the white much counter for five days in a row, and after those five days, all of the lunch counters in downtown jacksonville were integrated. the civil rights movement has always been about "we" and "us" not "me" and "i." everything we were able to do was for folks who look like us. as long as we are fighting racism and fighting for human dignity and respect, the struggle continues.

amy: a short documentary about axe handle saturday called "unless we tell it" directed by kyle dorrell. it featured our guest rodney hurst served as president of the naacp youth council in jacksonville, which organized those sit-ins in 1960. in fact, rodney hurst, it was august 27 when you were remembering that 63 years ago saturday when the shooting took place. >> the shooting was on saturday. the actual date of the march was sunday, which was the 63rd commemoration that we had -- we have been having those commemorations over the years. in 1960 when sit-ins began in greensboro, north carolina, by four students from north carolina ant, most of the sit-in ers were college students.

in jacksonville, most of us were high school students. we were motivated not only to understand who we were in black history, but to join the youth council naacp by my eighth grade american history teacher, whose name was rutledge pearson. when i was 11 years old, i started school when asked five and i got skipped most of as my pastor was say, favor aid to. but i joined the youth council naacp at 11. i became president at 15 and led the sit-ins at 16. but 95% plus of the young people who sat in jacksonville work i school students. mr. pearson had a slogan he would say freedom is not free if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem. and we wanted to be a part of the solution. juan: i would like to bring in representative maxwell alejandro frost into the conversation.

representative, your response to the racist shootings in jacksonville? also, you called on governor desantis to call for special session to discuss the matter. your sense of the governor's role these past -- in the past in terms of dealing with issues related to the black community? >> thank you for having me on. organizers come advocates, community leaders, clergy -- folks across the state for years, for years have been pleading with the governor to do many things but two things in relation to this tragedy that happened in jacksonville. number one, act on gun violence. in the country with the leading cause of death is to be shot to death, we need to do something. in a country where we lose 100 people a day to gun violence, we

need to do something about the problem. what we're seeing in the republican party is not only do they not want to do anything about it but they want to say there is no way to fix the problem, which i dismiss. the second thing, this governor consistently embraces and champions this far right fascist movement that is growing across the country but really florida and texas i believe are the two epicenters of, and that movement is credence and gives power to racist bigots like the murder who went into that store and murdered three people and hunted three people down because of the color of their skin. all of these things are connected stop when that shooter months before that would turn on the news, weeks before that would turn on the news to see kids in jacksonville, middle schoolers will learn about black who were enslaved benefited, had personal benefit from their

slavery, that gives people credence. that pushes bigotry and racial hatred into people. and so i saw those videos and thus pictures of the governor at the memorial and i was tweeting, i have been in so many communities across this entire nation just after a mass shooting and just after shooting. i have been doing gun violence work since i was 15 years old. i have to say in moments like these, we have to stand strong on ensuring that leaders who contributed to the problem can't use our communities as campaign stops. that is exactly what the governor did. i am happy that activists and organizers booed him and yelled to him, "you're part of the reason this happened" because it is nothing but the truth. juan: you are calling on the

department of justice to launch an investigation into what is happening now go florida -- in florida? >> yes. we have to take steps look at where is our power now? we understand with this far right authoritarian leader as our governor, we need to look at power in other places. people power on the ground. we the white house and the president joe biden. i want to see the department of justice to a lot more looking at -- using every tool in their toolbox to investigate not just this specific incident but everything going on in florida. myself, i sent a letter with congressman jamie raskin and we asked the chair, we need to have hearings of what is going on in florida because this anti-democratic governor, it is not just in the state of florida but spreading from the entire country -- we saw what happened

in tennessee with the tennessee 3. this far right movement that seeks to subvert democracy to consolidate power. it is important we talk about it. the chair did not respond to it so i held my own hearing, put my own hearing together. i brought the state attorney was taken out of office, brought a state representative, substitute teacher that was fired for simply posting footage of empty bookshelves because of the book ban. we brought people together fighting for democracy and voting rights. what we found in the hearing and through our research is the governor is targeting municipalities, counties, people across the state that disagree with him. he is subverting democracy and removing them from office stop all of these things are connected. we need the department of justice to look into the racial hatred, the hatred of black

people, and the state of florida. amy: democratic congress member maxwell alejandro frost, thank you for being with us, the former national organizing director for march for our lives, which was formed by survivors of the parkland shooting in florida.