♪ imran: africa is holding its first climate summit. the aim is to decide how to tackle the continent's climate change challenges. but although african countries are ambitious about rain -- green development, can they go it alone, and do they have the money? this is "inside story." ♪ hello, and welcome to the program. i'm imran khan. african nations are demanding a climate justice, and their continent suffers the most among

a warming planet, and they want wealthy nations to help the cost. that's why leaders have been gathering in kenya for a first of its kind summit on climate change. they want to unite in a single voice to strengthen their position on the global stage. we will go to our panel in just a few moments, but first, our fintan monaghan has this report. fintan: african leaders gather for the first time, seeking joint action on climate change. while the focus was on the challenges facing the continent, host nation kenya also due to the potential opportunities. pres. ruto: in africa, we can be a green industrial hub that helps other regions achieve their net zero strategies by 2050. unlocking the renewable resources that we have in our continent is not only good for africa, it is good for the rest of the world. fintan: according to the u.n., africa contributes around 2% to

3% of global emissions but suffers the most from the changing climate. extreme weather events like droughts and floods are becoming more frequent have been linked to the deaths of thousands of people. african nations say they need funding to help mitigate the effects and smooth the transition to cleaner energy sources. more than $120 billion a year is needed, but it is only getting a fraction of that. the u.n. secretary general is among those calling on rich nations to pay up. sec-gen. guterres: i make a very strong appeal to the large emitters, the g20 countries responsible for 80% of the admissions that will be meeting this week in delhi. assume your responsibilities. fintan: but despite many such calls in the past, the biggest polluters have been reluctant to meet those demands. african nations will seek more commitments at the next u.n. climate conference at the end of the year. they are hoping a common position will strengthen their hand.

fintan monaghan for "inside story." ♪ imran: let's meet our guests. in nairobi is maurice onyango, regional head of disaster risk management for plan international. in abuja is donald ikenna ofoegbu, program manager of sustainable nigeria programs with heinrich boell stiftung. and in nairobi is serah makka, executive director for the one campaign. a warm welcome to you all. i want to begin with serah first. it is the first ever climate change summit. africa is responsible for about 2% to 3% of global emissions, yet it is the continent that is the most affected, but the real challenge here for this particular summit is trying to come up with a unified agreement. very simple question, do you think they can do that? serah: i do.

i think there is political will. i think this inaugural climate summit really awaken something in the leaders of africa. there's a pretty impressive list of african leaders in the room, in spite of the fact of the g20 happening next week. there's a good number of international guests in the room, from secretary john kerry from the united states all the way to europe. i think that it feels different on the ground, to be honest. when you walk around the summit ground, the middle easterners are representing a number, the africans are represented in numbers, europeans are represented in numbers. i think the resource constraints are real. i think the impact of climate change is very real for africa. i think we've been hit by a few areas that have tightened the physical space, cost-of-living, inflation, the ukraine and russia war did not help.

the pandemic really exacerbated a lot of things, so there is urgency of the situation, and there is political will to find solutions. so i think, as there is a will, we will find a way. imran: let me go to abuja, donald, where there's a will, there's a way, but that might not be the way that everybody is looking for, this optimism that we talk about, there are still large oil-producing nations within africa itself, who are insisting they need that money to develop their own nations. were not unified right now, are we? is that optimism a bit misplaced? donald: i think i will apply a bit of caution in terms of how much i want to put some optimism as to what is happening, largely because i think a lot of african countries are leaning so much of actions, which we should be taking other people on the west, when it comes to climate change, from my own perspective, i don't

think a lot of our country, as national countries, are taking enough responsible actions. it is true that much of their admissions may not be coming from africa, and it is also true that we are dealing with a lot of the effects of climate change, the measuring the reactions from our own countries, at least for nigeria, for instance, i don't think we're taking enough actions to actually address the problem as it is. it's risky, it's dangerous, it's a good narrative that puts the fate of africa in the hands of the west, so i think leaning toward that trajectory which is something i speculate is happening most. i think it's risky, so i don't think i will be optimistic until i see more national african countries, you know, taking their own initiative to respond to these threats, rather than just really leaning on the west to meet up with their obligations, which so far has not been happening since paris. imran: let me go to nairobi as

well now, maurice, that idea that we need to be careful about our optimism might well change in a few days' time, if they do come up with these unified statements and a concrete plan. those plans are ambitious. they want carbon offset programs, they want $120 billion a year. where are you with this? do you think this is going to happen? maurice: i think it can happen, because, as serah has mentioned, the general goodwill, the political goodwill is increasingly they are. we are all recognizing the devastating effects of climate change. it is no longer a debate. it is something that is now fully recognized, and i think african governments are recognizing this. the global community are recognizing this. but i think the major part, which has been a challenge, is acting. i think we should move from a lot of talk and just act and

invest in the right alternative financing models for -- to sustain the green growth that we all aspire for. so i think the goodwill as they are, the political good well is there. it is a question of acting. we need to ask now, and for us to really make any headway. imran: serah, maurice makes a good point here. there is, like you say, seemingly the political will to get this done. there is very important people in that room, as you say, but the elephant in the room is always big business, and big business is not want to change, and that has been a real problem. now, we're looking at carbon offsets programs, carbon offset investments, effectively encouraging businesses to invest in things like planting more trees, and in that way they can offset those investments with the things that they are doing,

the g20 countries are doing, for example, 80% of the world's emissions come from g20 kouachi -- g20 countries. are these financial model sustainable for africa? serah: i think there has to be a lot more players than the private sector. one of the things that were seeing is the scale of the challenges in the trillions, so the report mentions lower income countries need 2.4 trillion dollars every year to combat the coalition of climate and development. so we can't get all of that from the private sector. it will have to come from domestic resources, including government. it will have to come from domestic private sector capital mobilize. it will have to come from foreign investments as well, as well as multi-lateral development of banks -- development banks. these players need to come in

the room, and right now, there is a serious conversation about the african carbon market initiative. we believe there's room for africa to come with a common voice, so that we can adequately price african carbon. currently, when you stand up african carbon with carbon coming from other parts of the world, african carbon is cheaper and sustained carbon, so the question is, are the methodologies defunct? do we need to look at that? what if the pricing mechanism? can african countries get the revenue from absorbing carbon and charging those who are polluting more to pay for the work we are doing on the continent of absorbing this carbon? so that is the constellation of conversations we are having, so i do think there is a place for the private sector. i do think there is a place for the carbon market, but i think we need a lot more tools in our toolkit. imran: right. maurice, i will come to you in a quick second, but i want to come to donald first. firstly, let's talk about this idea that the green business

might be a way forward, particularly for the african continent. it is a continent where 400 million people don't have access to electricity on a regular basis, they don't have access to clean water on a regular basis, but now, big business wants to kind of come in with these offset programs. is that the right way to go, do you think? donald: for me, i think it's going to be a lot of questions around the ability of existing institutions in africa to enforce and implement what is right. it is dirty, it is cheap, it is good for big business, and i don't see big businesses actually tilting the right way, to provide more electricity, to pay. a lot of africans are living in huge debt. we may not be having a lot of debt forgiveness coming up very soon, and so a lot of these businesses are not running charity organizations. they want to make profit.

everybody is going to try to minimize cost as much as possible, so we don't have the institutions to enforce the green sustainability, business models, and business measures. and i think this is what really disturbs whatever level of often is my have. i don't think we have those as additions. i think we need to build those capacities first, so we can do what is -- build those capacities first, so we can ensure big businesses do what is right. we have to put more money in the pockets of poor houses to be able to achieve more electricity, that way we can get some practical solutions. but as soon as we get more houses getting more incomes -- imran: i want to stop you there, because you made an interesting point. i want to pop to maurice. this idea that kind of come from the summit, but you don't have the capacity, says donald, within african institutions to be able to deliver on those. you simply don't have the as

additions in place. is that right? maurice: no, i would disagree with that. i partially agree to a certain extent, but these institutions need to be built. where they don't exist, we need to build them. i think the narrative that africa is powerless, the narrative that africa doesn't have business, i think that narrative is one we need to counter and get the necessary support that is needed, so that we build this institution, we build the financing models and make sure that they are sustainable. we don't want to reach a situation where we are feeling extremely powerless, in the continent the resources or they are, but how are we exploiting those resources? how are we exploiting the manpower that we have? how are we dealing with the capacities that are in the continent? so i think that we need a concerted effort to build existing traditions, create

institutions where they are not existing, strengthen them where they are existing and are weak, and then move on together. i wanted to highlight also another point around that the problem is not just about the private sector. the problem is for us all. it is a problem that is impacting our children. at plan international, we are seeing the impact everywhere. in southern africa, we are losing huge numbers of children in terms of generations. so let us think of holistic solutions, that will strengthen his additions and make all of us move together in the right way. -- institutions and make all of us move together in the right way. imran: serah, we heard from guterres, the united nations secretary general, saying the g20 needs to pay up to $120 billion a year.

there's a lot of donor fatigue right now. there are several problems, crises on the continent, and indeed across the world, where donors are being asked to front up money. and most of the time what gets pledged at these conferences does not translate into money on the ground. are you worried about that? serah: you know, that is a concern, because it feels that the donor fatigue is based on, "we are doing africa a favor," but i would like to highlight that africa's contributions to admissions is about 4%, so 96% come from elsewhere. and what africa is saying is, you have created the situation, you contributed to 96% of the situation. what we are bringing to the table is an ability to exhort and correct the situation through our natural assets, our critical green minerals, our young, innovative, youthful

population, and what we need is capital. so it is not that donors are doing a favor to africa, they are doing a favor for the whole world, including themselves. so yes, we understand the constraints of capital are widespread, it is not just within the continent. other countries have the situation, however, the call to action for the g20, for donor countries is, we need a mix of financing, so funds should be actively -- adequately funded as grants, but africa can get loans as well. we need to be concessional. so we have a debt crisis on the continent of sorts, about 22 countries just in debt distress. what that means is if a country is making a decision between paying its teachers or servicing its debts, paying its nurses or servicing its debts, it doesn't have the bandwidth of addressing all the challenges that are coming out due to climate change. there is an urgent need for

multilateral development banks to create the concessionary loans for african countries. the g20 experts will advise that the african development bank and tripled the loan so that countries can borrow at triple the rate as opposed to what we do now, lend money to the capital market, and we are paying five times more to do that. so, a, it is not charity. we are in this together. but, b, we need available resources to tackle it, so it is not just grants, it's also loans, and it is also where the private sector comes in with equity contributions. imran: as you were talking, when you just said this is not africa asking for a favor, this is not africa just begging, both of our guests actually nodding furiously in agreement with you. let me go to nairobi first and maurice. this is the key change, i feel, that this summit, more than any other summit, is about saying,

look, this is your fault, and you need to come and help us, but we are not asking for a handout. if that message getting across to the politicians from the g20 countries? maurice: i think it is. the question is, are we listening? and are we acting? going back to what i was saying earlier, because what serah mentioned, we need solutions in terms of financing. we have not contributed especially as africa, very insignificant in terms of the impact of climate change, so the key thing is, let us really act now and invest, putting the money in climate financing, putting the money in all these agreements that we have all along come up with, but we have not put the necessary resources to make them actualized. so i think it is not a begging situation.

let us simply put the money where it is needed, because it is all affecting us. africa is worst affected, and if we don't invest in some of these solutions, we are going to get into a more serious situation. even when it comes to the forest cover and how we are doing visa sequestering and all that, if africa is contribute in the best in terms of back, equatorial forest and all that, so let us put in our resources, the money necessary for making sure that we affect all these agreements and then we move forward in the right way. imran: donald, a slightly different question to you. the mechanisms that we talked about so far, the international monetary fund, the world bank, the african development bank, those are the mechanisms that, generally speaking, when they have come into countries, they have insisted on changes to the country's finance systems, austerity measures, for example, there's a cost to getting those

people involved, and often times, those cost to the most -- costs hit the most poorest people. are you concerned that the international finance community is perhaps going to be a bigger problem long-term than this optimism that we see right now? donald: yeah, totally. i mean, it has been a longer worried or complained that the large international organizations, financial considerations are largely unstable, for society -- subsidy sectors, largely exported form systems, so to a large extent yes. and these are some of the conditions and discussions we hope that the africa climate summit should strongly, you know, go ahead to discuss the conditions around expanding borrowing. and seeing how we really get a

little more concessional funds that go favorable to africa and other developing countries. so, yeah, i think the imf, the world bank, i think they should consider those mechanisms, i don't think they favor africa so much, and i think we really should consider the conditions around climate steps swap and the rest of them, but i don't think the current instruments are largely favorable, and we don't address this, they will really largely be a big barrier as to how well we could address climate change. if we are actually looking or leading toward more international financing from the west. imran: serah, i'll come to you in a second, but w maurice, as donald was speaking, you are shaking your head, do you disagree? maurice: it is not that i disagree, it's the point that he's mentioning, even in the international finance system, as we speak you have several of our, our president fact, the

president of kenya was mentioning even the other day that the amount of interest that even africans are paying for, from the global finance system, is extremely high. and even when we come up with all these new mechanisms, let us come up with mechanisms, whether it is loans, grants, that are conducive, that are favorable to the african continent, because the current system has a certain challenge in terms of the amount of money, which is calculated on risk basis, and the interests are just extremely out of this world. imran: serah, we concentrated on the actual summit itself, but financing, $120 billion, the u.n. is looking for, to help africa with, how that might be given to africa, but angela's sherman's, private-sector, public-sector, corporation, all of that sort of stuff. but i want to get back to the actual real problems within africa itself, when it comes to

the mistrust, that image that african politicians are corrupt. the g20, often when they say "we don't want to give any more money to africa, because we don't know whether it is going to get to the right people," it is an image problem, that the african continent, as racist as it is, has. so, how is this summit going to address that? is it going to address the endemic, almost systematic racism toward africa? serah: you know, so corruption is not a purview of africa alone, so that perception and they is needs to change. we look across the atlantic, and we see corruption in many other jurisdictions, but somehow, when it is african related, it gets amplified. so i think it is time for courageous and candid conversation. the corruption is everywhere. however, let's come back home to what we can do as we are thinking about and working through resurrecting and

actually building our continent. so two things that are very important, one is including civil society and citizenry in the conversation about resources. accountability by africans of african governments are going to be really important. so it is not outside of putting a lens on what africa should or shouldn't do, it is the african citizens often times that outlast the political timeline that need to be involved in this. in creating that atmosphere, where african citizens and civil society can be part of that, is a start, but the second is what as well is when we talk about domestic resource mobilization, of the money that is required. i know there is a quote of $120 billion. there's another of $2.24 trillion. of all that money required, 1.4 trillion will need to come from africa or come from a domestic

side. so how we are contracting to this, you know, we are not waiting for folks are just give us resources. we also have to generate resources internally. so how are we thinking creatively on the continent of generating those resources internally? it will have to do with taxation, unfortunately, financial flows, need to be strengthened, because often times the funds come out of africa to the west, so we have enablers in other jurisdictions that enable this illicit financial system to thrive. so when the blame comes solely on africa, i think we need to share that event more, but more pointedly, by sharing the blame, we need to do actual things to mitigate the perception. sometimes the reality but largely the perception of corruption, and that involves transparency, accountability. imran: sorry, we are running out of time. here's the deal. you've got 24 hours left of this summit. it's coming to a close very soon. there needs to be a joint,

actionable statement that comes out of that, that is going to satisfy all three of you. i just want to ask you, donald, in abuja, do you think that is going to happen? is there a mission statement that is actionable, that will work, that will come out of the summit? donald: yes, i think it is possible we can get some concrete resolutions, that's implementable, but if i would want to be, if they are practical and they are naturally designed and politically design -- imran: we are coming out of time, but i want to go to our guest in nairobi. i understand you think there might be a statement. maurice, what do you think, will there be a joint, actionable statement, quickly? maurice: i operate from the side of optimism, and i believe that is possible could we still have adequate time. it is possible we are going to get funding out -- something out.

the keep an eye was mentioning earlier, let's act and act fast, because we don't have time to really wait. the time is just now for us to act and make sure that we can really turn the bend on this issue. imran: i want to thank all of our guests, serah makka, donald ikenna ofoegbu, and maurice onyango. and thank you for watching good you can see the program any time by visiting our website, aljazeera.com. for further discussion, head to our facebook page, and you can also join the conversation on x. our handle is @ajinsidestory. for me, imran khan, and our

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