operating for years outside india and now one has been killed in canada. prime minister justin trudeau accuses canada of triggering engine between the two countries. can it be contained? and what does it tell us about the plight of religious minorities in india? this is inside story. mohammed: welcome to the program. the killing of a sikh activist

in british columbia has opened up a diplomatic rift between india and canada. canadian prime minister justin trudeau says india may have been involved, a charge new delhi is calling absurd. both sides have expelled each other's diplomats and cooperation on trade and defense could be in jeopardy. our reporter has this. reporter: sikhs in canada are: for justice after one of their community leaders was killed in june. canadian prime minister justin trudeau appears to have confirmed some of their suspicions. >> canadian security agencies have been actively pursuing credible allegations of a potential leak between agents of the government of india and the killing of a canadian citizen, hardeep singh nijjar. canada has already expelled a

diplomat. in india, protesters have denounced trudeau. relations were already strained, prime minister met under modi accused canada of horton sikh -- according separatists. -- hoarding sikh separatists. the killing of hardeep singh nijjar is a diplomatic that may be difficult to breach. mohammed: joining me now are our guests. garry keller, vice president at

strategycorp, a government relations and geopolitical advisory, and former chief of staff to the canadian foreign minister. steve hewitt, associate professor at the university of birmingham. brahma chellaney, professor of strategic studies at the centre for policy research and former adviser to india's national security council. a warm welcome to you all. we had a spokesperson scheduled to be on the program, but they pulled out. how extraordinary was it that this allegation was made publicly by prime minister trudeau? >> very extraordinary. the news was broken in the house of commons monday afternoon. the house of commons has been on a summer break for a number of months. canadians a large focus of the

parliament would be on the economy. within two hours of the house of commons returning, prime minister trudeau had this quite explosive news and providing almost no heads up to the opposition parties and it was certainly dominating the headlines of canada for the past 48 hours and will continue to do so. prime minister trudeau will be at a united nations assembly later this week. obviously, the murder of this sikh activist and canadian citizen may news a number of months ago when it happened. and now this has blown it further to the stratosphere. mohammed: let me ask about the fact that when you listen to the language used by prime minister

trudeau, he is not really definitive. he says canadian intelligence are investigating credible allegations. is he giving himself wiggle room on this? >> yes, any political leader will try to give themselves wiggle room on something like this. a very explosive allegation. it was interesting too the reaction of the opposition parties, the first reaction was we all have to stand together and foreign interference has been a major topic in canada. this just adds fuel to the fire. 24 hours later, the opposition leaders said we need to see the full evidence out there.

wired these allegations about indian interference made public when we have had months and years of allegations of chinese interference not made public. trudeau has to back up what he has said. if there is any wiggle room in that that will be very dangerous for the government in terms of its credibility. the opposition has to be careful not to overplay its hand. it can be seen as making political hay over a serious situation like this. mohammed: the ending government has said that any suggestion it played a role in the death of hardeep singh nijjar is absurd. aside of the original statement, we also heard from justin trudeau that he is not trying to provoke the after he made that accusation.

what is the reaction to those remarks? does india see this as a provocation? >> what trudeau was saying in the house of commons was not about canadian security intelligence finding evidence of india's involvement in the killing, rather his statement was about allegations that he call credible allegations about a potential india link to the murder. why would the prime minister of a country stand up in parliament and level allegations against another country when not a single suspect has been arrested in the murder? no arrests, let alone any

evidence, he stands up in parliament and repeats allegations of radical sikhs in canada, who have held india responsible for the murder. trudeau would have known that when he made that statement that this would worsen relations with india. relations with india have been worsening on trudeau's watch because his government has turned a blind eye to the increasing activities of radical sikhs in canada. he has political ties to canadian sikh reticles. he leads a minority government that depends on the support of

the new democratic party leader. he is a sikh, but is also in the past defended sikh militants who have been fighting to create a separate sikh nation. given the domestic politics in canada, i know that trudeau's popular tree -- popularity ratings have sunk. but you do not do what he has done knowing that this would undermine the relationship. mohammed: you talk about the

fact that india is furious about the allegations. can this growing rift be contained? if so, what needs to happen? >> what we're seeing now is a downward spiral in relations. each country has kicked out its top spy and now there of been tit-for-tat travel advisories. india advised india's were visiting canada to be cautious because of grown anti-indian activity in canada. i think it is important for canada and india to stop this downward spiral in relations because canada and india are not adversaries. these are friends. and i think it is easy to damage an important relationship, but

rebuilding it will be far more difficult. it is important not to escalate matters. they need to take things in a more cautious and pragmatic way and use diplomacy rather than airing grievances and suspicions and allegations in public. the ball is in trudeau's court. not a single suspect has been arrested. the murder happened more than three months ago. if you do not have a single suspect in custody, you obviously do not have any evidence. before you open your mouth in public, you should think of the diplomatic consequences of what you are saying.

mohammed: steve, canada has a sizable population of sikhs. how does it change the dynamics of this growing rift? >> canada has the largest sikh community. there is a long history of sikh activism and extremism and sikh canadians involved in violence. 40 years ago this similar discussion was taking place, including with the government of p return dope. -- pierre trudeau. the deputy leader of the conservative party is also a sikh. you have them in all major parties and they play a role in

the canadian political scene, upstanding citizens. canada is a diverse and multicultural countries and there are diaspora communities from a number of places in the world. mohammed: how much concern is there about the geopolitical consequences of a growing india-canada conflict? >> it is really interesting that canada's main allies seem to be very quiet on this issue. this has come at a point where the united states and the united kingdom are trying to put that away from china and build relations with india. in some ways, the trudeau government is not sinking from the same song sheet as its allies. india is in a rather strong

position given the concerns about china, including in canada . >> to steve's point, canada has long been seen by india to have a problem on how it deals with sikh extremism, khalistani question. in recent months, it ebbs and flows, and the issue around kalus them has heated -- kalus stan has heated up. that call for independence for a kalus tammy state. we know for a fact that the modi

government has tried to quietly back channel to tamp down those whom i have been on the fence. i think the modi government thought in some ways it was trying to get a handle on the kalus donnie problem in canada. the other issue that has been a huge issue, those same extremists have seen coasters calling for the assassination of indian diplomats in canada we have seen that security has been increased across canada. it is a very serious issue that has bubbled up over the last number of months. this killing in the spring focused attention even back then without the southern noise coming into question.

it is a political issue because in parts of canada, there are seats that flip around and trudeau has a minority government. he has the support of the new democrats on this. as a result, these are very politically important seats because if there are 15-20 seats that have a sizable south asian or sikh population, that can make the difference between a majority and minority government. the politicians are thinking about the news first, but that discussion will come later. india does have a point that

canada has been week on khalistani activity in canada. mohammed: india has been raising concern about the khalistani independence movement, not just with canada but other countries as well like australia. >> exactly. this year has been bad in terms of sikh militancy abroad. the embassy in london was stormed by sikh reticles. radicals. a few hours later, in a copycat attack, militants followed up with another attack. they set the front area of the

consulate on fire. we have other attacks on indian diplomatic missions. so these countries are the hub of sikh militancy today. back in india, there is little or no support for the khalistani demand. it is only being espoused by a small minority of sikhs living in canada, in the united states, in the united kingdom and australia. this is where the khalistani demand has been advocated. they were advocating for a separate sikh homeland.

the problem is, when you give long rope to seek -- sikh militants in your country, you encourage not only anti-india, you actually unintentionally encourage terrorism. today it is about india and canada. a time might come when sikh militants in canada carry out international acts of terrorism. we do not want that to happen. it is not just about india and canada. it is about international stability. >> the worst act of terrorism in

canadian history was the bombing of the flight in 1985. 329 people killed. that is the equivalent of a 9/11 for canada carried out by sikh extremists operating in canada. there was long concerned that if canada did not do more to crack down on sikh activities that india might be tempted to. there is evidence of indian intelligence agencies operating in canada. this is going one step further if these allegations are true and escalating things beyond the point the canadian government and i think most canadians would

find acceptable. mohammed: when we are talking about these allegations, is there a point with which the canadian government will make any of the evidence they say they have public? >> that is a great question. the government response today has been [indiscernible] problem the terrines do not have access -- we have to have a formal inquiry. you have to be more transparent with canadians about these very serious allegations. even canada's national security office set our default position is secrecy and if you want to

see things, we have to be pushed into it. i think this is only going to lead to that. if you thought that canadian-indian relations were cold before, bear in a deep freeze -- they are in a deep freeze now. the relationship has gone hot and cold over the last 40 or 50 years. trudeau is pushing a free trade deal with china. that is off the table. canada launched its indo pacific strategy which was to act as a counterweight, but what do you do now with an indo pacific

strategy when the indo part is gone and in the deep freeze for the next little while here and probably for the length of this trudeau government. if you want a counterweight to china, that relationship is not going to work in canada. we have seen this reaction from partners for saying canada should investigate this information and any killing of a canadian citizen is horrible. they're not coming out and jumping on the band wagon because they understand. joe biden has made a part of his strategy to bring india closer to the fold. mohammed: i want to ask about the fact that since his

election, prime minister modi has been accused of overseeing a rising tide of conservative hindu nationalism. there are minority groups that have raise concerns about threats to their human rights. this issue has been receiving wider global attention after three pro khalistani died in succession earlier this year pier 1 does this say about the plight of religious minorities in india? >> india has a very polarized democracy. when you go back to the time when donald trump was in the white house, americans were accusing trump of undermining american democracy, of being a threat to american democracy, of acting as a strongman. these are the kinds of accusations for prime minister

modi. in a highly [indiscernible] political environment back in india, whether you are pro-prime minister modi or not, you cannot be neutral. if you are neutral, you are an outcast by both sides. a lot of these accusations that are being hurled are what trump was accused of. just the way american democracy survive from trump's presidency, the indian democracy is robust enough to survive prime minister modi. he has done nothing in terms of changes in law that affect the minorities. one has to keep that in mind. coming back to the larger issue, the fact is that much before prime minister modi entered

politics, india had deep concerns about the operations of terrorists and those concerns go back to the 1930's when an indian diplomat was murdered in britain and a bomb explosion on a flight from toronto killing all the people on board. india has never been accused of taking down anyone on western soil. they are more than 100 designated terrorists in pakistan that are wanted in india. india has put up with those terrorists even though some of them are wanted in india for horrific attacks. by comparison, this sikh radical

who was gunned down in canada is a known figure in india. he is certainly not on mds list of most wanted terrorists. -- india's list of most wanted terrorists. he entered canada illegally and tried for years to become a citizen. mohammed: i am sorry to interrupt, but we have run out of time. thank you so much to all of our guests. thank you as well for watching. you can see the program anytime by going to our website

aljazeera.com. you can also join the conversation on x. goodbye for now.

man: at the beginning of, um, of 2020, i had an exhibition at the university museum of contemporary art in mexico city, and it was an introspective exhibition called "customatism," and that exhibition had been prepared for years. i mean, had 30 years of work, if not more, probably, like, 40 years of work, and it was supposed to come to the museum of contemporary art in san diego, but then, all of a sudden, we had this pandemic. woman on tv: china has identified the cause of a mysterious new virus. man on tv: we now have a name for the disease-- covid-19. man 2 on tv: you must stay at home. president trump: we're asking everyone to work at home