mohammed: it has undisputed for decades but nagorno-karabakh is under azerbaijan's control. what does the future hold for the region? what will happen to it separatist movements? this is inside story. ♪ mohammed: welcome to the program. azerbaijan is in full control of nagorno-karabakh which marks the

decades of fighting. armenia and azerbaijan have struggled for control of the region for decades. it is recognized as part of azerbaijan but is home to a large population of ethnic armenians. they are now fleeing across the border. what will become of them and could this have implications for separatist struggles elsewhere? first, this report. reporter: tens of thousands of refugees are leaving the place they once called home. ethnic armenians who say they know under feel safe now that nagorno-karabakh is under the control of azerbaijan. the armenian prime minister says what is happening is a crime against humanity. [speaking another language] >> in a few days there will be no more armenians left in nagorno-karabakh, it is an active ethnic cleansing and depriving people of their homeland. something we have been warning

the national community about. as for armenia, our priority is to see that our brothers and sisters are secure and provide for their needs. mohammed: azerbaijan launched a lightning attack on ethnic armenian forces that controlled part of the nagorno-karabakh region. within 24 hours they were in control. nagorno-karabakh has long been internationally recognized as part of azerbaijan. but it is home to a large relation of ethnic armenians. azerbaijan and armenia have been fighting over it for decades. but this time armenia did not step in to protect its people. azerbaijan plans to fully integrate nagorno-karabakh into his territory. it says the armenians living there have nothing to fear. [speaking another language] >> it is clear that the people living in that region are citizens of azerbaijan regardless of their ethnicity so

their safety and security would be insured by the state of azerbaijan. i am sure that the integration process of the armenian people leavening -- living there will be successful. reporter: the armenian separatist leader has been arrested. despite a cease-fire deal in with azerbaijan promised to let them leave. the south declared republic no longer exists. the fate of nagorno-karabakh is decided by force of arms. and for the refugees that were able to cross the border, now comes the challenge of building a new life. ♪ mohammed: let's bring in our guests, nigar arpadarai, a member of azerbaijan's parliament. we have matthew bryza and arsen kharatyan.

a warm welcome to you all and thank you for joining us today on inside story. nagorno-karabakh is under azerbaijan's control. does that mean the fight is over? nigar: we do not have a place like nagorno-karabakh, it is called karabakh. hopefully yes, we are akin to have long lasting peace because the whole thing was around the puppet regime that was the occupation of armenia and the puppet regime being there. now the situation is our meeting militants in karabakh. they collected all of the

weapons and munitions. for 30 years this area was a gray zone. and hopefully now our main goal is to integrate armenians of karabakh and the military agenda is closed, because we are keen to have peace in our region. the azerbaijan army was cautious, was only targeting military citizens, it was important not to create a panic amongst people, among settlements. we have been trying to do our best to have first steps in the integration process. we have dialogues with armenians of karabakh, we have sent supplies to them with medicines, electricity has been supplied.

we are trying to make sure that all of the necessary things and necessary steps are done for civilians. in the meantime we are trying to make sure we are cleaning this zone of weapons and munitions. from all of the illegal matters that were there for many years. and the thing is that -- mohammed: i'm sorry to interrupt you, let me ask you, you said something that we heard from other government officials, which is that this region will be reintegrated. but the government of azerbaijan has not explained how it would be reintegrated. what are the plans? nigar: the reintegration plans are more or less there. we are discussing it with representatives of armenians, we already have a portal created for them where they can apply and become citizens of

azerbaijan. we want to clean the zone and have better infrastructure and better living conditions. they will have all of the rights , as all of the other ethnic groups have, we have many ethnic groups. all of them live peacefully and coexist with respect and dignity. this is what we offer to armenians of karabakh. mohammed: you are talking about an assurance of rights. but the fact of the matter that -- is you have thousands of people that are fleeing. they are saying they don't believe they are safe. they say don't -- they do not believe guarantees have been made about their safety. how do you react to that? nigar: they have been brainwashed for 30 years. the ideology was around

azerbaijan means and armenians being incompatible. this ideology was promoted by the diaspora and all of the armenian politicians. the proposal was to annex part of pfizer by jean. now when we offer them to see, we guarantee all of their rights, it shows the propaganda was false. their whole ideology was false. but from our side, most of them, they are being interviewed by media, and when being asked if you have any problems, they say no we didn't, we were told to leave. the criminals told these people to leave. in reality they are not leaving because of the situation on the ground, they are leaving because of something -- something someone told them. not because something happened to them on the ground.

they have been hostages and have been brainwashed by them. they did not say anything else. we are offering them a better life. i am telling you, i work government is dedicated, we are offering them to stay and become an azerbaijan citizen. when azerbaijanis were expelled, you either leave or you die. one million people were expelled from their camps 30 years ago. we want this integration to happen. mohammed: i need to go to arsen kharatyan. you are reacting a lot. i want to sq about the fact that the government in azerbaijan says ethnic armenians have nothing to fear and they will be reintegrated. what is your reaction? arsen: what i will start with is

facts speak for themselves. over 90,000 people fled nagorno-karabakh during the last three days. if the life they were going to get in azerbaijan who was going to be so great, why would they want to leave? talking about the criminal regime? you are talking to the administration, why are you talking to criminals if they are criminals? you are picking and choosing whoever you want, people are coming with fears, even on the border you are stopping them and humiliating them with your media. you are talking about and munitions and weapons, a panic amongst the people, you failed on that, you failed to provide these people any property -- any opportunity to live out -- to live in azerbaijan. people are talking about azerbaijan being a not free country.

nigar: what are you talking about? armenia is an aggressive country that has occupied azerbaijan land. mohammed: let's please let him finish his point. we will come back to you. please go ahead. arsen: you can also do it on your facebook live. this is a show with al jazeera and i would like to respect -- i respected your talk and i would expect the same from you. the situation on the ground is disastrous, people are losing their homes, they had to leave at the last second, leaving everything behind. the only place they could go was armenia, they are afraid because of the situation in their own country, free journalism and freedom of speech. the large-scale of e

armenia-phonia. your own citizens are deprived of basic rights. what you have done is the plan to do ethnic cleansing it is a clear ethnic cleansing plant that has been in place for a long time. right now you got what you wanted. i do not know who you are going to populate those places with, probably your own people. mohammed: let me just ask you -- nigar: there are many accusations -- mohammed: i will give you a moment to reply. how is armenians -- how are armenians going to hampel -- handle the plans in place for that? matthew: right now as we are seeing on the border, we have medical personnel, a lot of

basic food because these people have been deprived of basic supplies for the neck -- for the last nine months. we are trying to -- the larger scheme is to absorb them in armenia. today as we were following the records, some of the people are staying in the nearby regions, or different parts of the country. the government is saying they have enough housing capacity. however i am sure this is temporary. these people have been displaced from their houses, for a, small country like ours 100,000 people in a country of 3 million will be a huge problem. i'm not sure the humanitarian support, if it will come from the human -- from the international community. mohammed: matthew, what happens

going forward? what does the future hold for the region and what kind of implications could all of this fold for separate struggles in the region and in other parts of the world? matthew: the main focal point is going to be with both guests, the disposition of the people who have left their homes. that is once of -- one of the most traumatic experiences in anyone's life. it is true that the government of azerbaijan had embraced the idea that the armenians would stay and azerbaijanis would return to their homes. that seems unrealistic right now. but hopefully looking forward, we will see azerbaijan deliver. revenge is one of the most powerful negative motivators in our humane -- human being.

the expulsions, some of them were killed, there was a massacre. it is understandable that the armenian side would think there might be revenge. but there isn't. i do not hear that hatred in azerbaijani society. there are extremists, but in general the government is saying something amazing, they are saying we hope you will stay and let's go forward to a peace treaty. the next thing that will happen is a piece treaty. azerbaijan is now the status quo power. the prime minister clearly wants of peace treaty but he is being reviled by that in armenia because he is being seen as not supporting them and being soft. i think there is going to be a peace treaty within months, even though it will not be popular in armenia.

russia has always said that they are no longer a protector of armenia. and putin is furious. there was going to be a question about armenians political orientation. and azerbaijan will have to figure out if they want the russian peacekeepers to stay. mohammed: i want to ask you about, is what we have seen happen in nagorno-karabakh, is this pointing to the fact that in a part of the world where russia has long been in charge, that the balance of power is changing? nigmatthew: 100%. moscow was sending warnings to them to not push too far. azerbaijan stopped its military operation short of the capital.

at that time moscow was telling azerbaijan, do not push it too far. i do not think the president is paying attention to president putin. it is hard to imagine russia as having a legitimate role in peacemaking. given its invasion of ukraine. not to mention invasion of georgia. the prestige of russia as a geopolitical player is terribly undermined. but it is still caring about what is going on, it is still really powerful and it is on the border of azerbaijan. i would not say russia is no longer going to be a player. but azerbaijan is turning its own destiny to an extent it never could before. mohammed: please go ahead. nigar: just to respond to some ideas. he was saying loads of accusations.

let's put aside of emotions and see the facts. the fact says that the lands of nagorno-karabakh were occupied by armenia. dozens of our documents confirms to this which were ignored by armenia. when he is talking about ethnic cleansing, i remember one seeing, do you know what the justification for the former -- they wanted to prevent potential genocide. i will not repeat that. they have expelled one million azerbaijanis from their home. azerbaijan has no record of ethnic cleansing, but armenia does. they also occupied azerbaijan land and expelled them from their homes. we have all of the other ethnic groups living together, we do not have a record of ethnic cleansing. ethnic cleansing, when someone is forced to leave.

we are offering them to stay and become citizens of azerbaijan. this is not ethnic cleansing do not use terminology like that. you are misleading people, do not use -- do not mislead the international community. azerbaijan misled the community in the 1990's. now we just want peace. we never had any problem with armenians living in karabakh. it was criminals that rain washed people's minds and kept them as hostages. now these people are free. it is their choice whether they want to leave or want to stay. but we guarantee their safety, if they stay they will be members of our society and enjoys all of the rights. they will be living in peace and dignity in peace and dignity and a better life. mohammed: you are disputing the

accusations that have been made about ethnic cleansing and the concerns about it. there are western governments that have been expressing alarm over the humanitarian situation. many of them have started demanding access for international observers to monitor azerbaijan's treatment of the local population. is that something azerbaijan would agree to? nigar: absolutely. the russian military peacekeepers were always there. and now u.n. agencies want to see the place. it will happen. but you have to understand that this is a heavily militarized zone. there are everywhere minds plaintiff. it it -- there are everywhere mines planted. before that, the safety issue is there.

from our side, we are cooperating with all of the size. we want to cooperate with armenians. there is a peace deal on the table. despite the fact that azerbaijan has the military dominance, we offered the peace treaty to armenia. the armenian prime minister is trying to do something, but he started supporting separatists in karabakh, sending them letters of congratulations. but now it is all over, for us it is over. despite all of that has happened, i believe we have a chance to have peace now. because armenia is off the hoop, they are free of this process of occupation of azerbaijan's lands. mohammed: i see that you want to

react, but i want to ask you, is there a chance for a formal peace agreement? arsen: i will get to that. i will agree with our guests, it is all over for you because you got rid of armenians in karabakh , no people no problem, like stalin was saying. in the long run it is not all over, it is actually a bad thing. because my personal thought was a true dialogue possibility between karabakh azerbaijan and karabakh. -- between azerbaijan and karabakh. there have been war crimes, but i want to remind you, not having any history of ethnic cleansing?

we had 350,000 armenians living in the area, where are all of those people? the first massacre and attack against armenians was in 1988 during the soviet era when armenians were harassed and attacked. these are all facts. if this is not ethnic cleansing, i do not know what is. talking about the possible peace treaty, on october 5 there will be a meaning, armenia, azerbaijan and three european states. we do not have high hopes for coming for something, people are being arrested in nagorno-karabakh. one of the key elements for this would be showing goodwill and not arresting people. and handle things. my understanding and feeling is that we are given a deadline, until october 1, whoever leaves

leaves, whoever stays will be handled differently. and the arrests of officials of nagorno-karabakh are not helping a peace treaty. it can only be viable if it is inclusive and takes all sides and all parties into account rather than one party coming -- a win-win is only possible if we have a situation that is different from now. mohammed: just give me a moment, let me ask matthew. he put a question to you about summer mark few made about ethnic cleansing, do you want to respond? matthew: i never said anything about ethnic cleansing, it is a loaded term, it can be used by anyone. there are 800,000 azerbaijanis that were displaced and massacred. with regard to his point about

arresting officials of the former karabakh separatist regime, that is par for the course in international law. get spain, their leaders of the catalon separatist movement are in prison. it is not ok, under international law, to lead a separatist movement. there are consequences. the armenian troops were illegally in azerbaijani territory. there have been corpses of armenian soldiers returned to armenia. the soldiers were there. this was a festering wound that was working against the prime minister, who wants a peace agreement. i am convinced he does but he was unable to move as long as there was this toxic political environment. it is still there. there is not a vehicle to

implement the agenda of the most toxic, the karabakh authorities. mohammed: we have a minute and a half, go ahead. nigar: i would like to say that we have a 10,000 armenian military servicemen on azerbaijan territory. part of the people that are leaving our armenian military that were serving on azerbaijan soil. and what happened then was, you are free to go. they are leaving now. but when you said azerbaijanis are leaving them? do you mean him? he is a criminal. he symbolizes the harm that the armenian diaspora brought to the region. he came out of nowhere to karabakh and started doing lots of things to impede the process.

and he is the person -- he is a criminal guy. mohammed: we are just about to run out of time. we have about 30 seconds left, please go ahead, keep your remarks brief. arsen: there should be a process of reconciliation, we will argue that he is an armenian citizen. i do not want to discuss the other officials. there were no 10,000 people in karabakh, there could have been sare armenians who were left there who are leaving now, but these are not facts and you are not able to prove that. nigar: it was confirmed by all of the sides. mohammed: all right, we have run out of time, we will have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much to all of our

guests, nigar arpadarai, matthew bryza and arsen kharatyan. you can watch the program any time by visiting aljazeera.com, you can join the conversation on x, our handle is @ajinsidestory. goodbye for now. ♪

[tom cruise impersonation] tom cruise: my fellow americans, you deserve the truth and i know you can handle it. i won't be your next president. that point has been made crystal clear. [president barack obama impersonation] barack obama: we're entering an era in which our enemies can make it look like anyone is saying anything at any point in time. like, president trump is a total and complete d--. ♪♪♪ [jeremy fernandez impersonation] jeremy fernandez: hello, welcome to "foreign correspondent." i'm jeremy fernandez. well, it took a global pandemic to force us all indoors and to increasingly rely on video screens to connect our lives. but is seeing still believing?