festival's broadcaster of the year award for the seventh year running. >> israel declares war on hamas and orders a total siege of gaza with no food or electricity after an unprecedented attack by the palestinian armed group. they have destroyed -- vowed to destroy hamas's capability, but at what cost? this is "inside story." ♪ hello and welcome to the program.

israel's defense minister has ordered a complete siege of gaza. he says palestinians in the enclave will soon have no access to electricity, food or fuel. the territory has been under nonstop bombardment and hundreds of palestinians and israelis have been killed since hamas fighters managed to infiltrate the area saturday. hamas says the attack is a response to more than 70 years of occupation and a 15 year blockade of gaza. israel has responded by formally declaring war. it is the most serious escalation in decades. but why exactly did this new war start and where it is go from here? plenty to discuss with our guests, but first, this report on the events of the past few days. reporter: in the early hours of october 7, hamas launched dozens of rockets from gaza into southern israel. the attack has been called an

unprecedented operation. >> the outcome of this battle is not yet revealed to the enemy. the israeli occupation forces have yet to learn how massive this operation is. once they realize the severity and outcome of it, they will regret it. to our brave fighters across the occupied territories, you have proven that you have the resolve. this is your day to march forward. reporter: by october 8, hezbollah joined the war. a senior official says his fighters will continue to support palestinians. >> our history, our guns, and our rockets are with you. everything we have is with you. reporter: israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu you has vowed to win the war, warning gaza residents to leave their homes. >> all of the places which hamas has deployed, hiding, and operating in in that wicked city, we will turn it into an

island of ruins. i am telling gaza's people to leave those places now because we will take action everywhere. reporter: as october 8 came to a close, the people of gaza had suffered their deadliest day in 15 years. israeli airstrikes hit the besieged enclave from all sides, killing nearly 300 palestinians. >> we are bearing the brunt of this attack. we have been witnessing bombings on residential buildings every five minutes. the explosions are rocking everyplace in gaza. no place is safe. >> i wish i could be a normal child living with no war, no rockets, so that we could return home safely. reporter: hundreds of israelis have also been killed and it is thought that at least 100 have been captured and taken into gaza. as the coming october days unfold, it is unclear how and when this war might end. but the loss of innocent

civilian life will likely continue. host: let's bring in our guests now for todcya's -- for today's "inside story." secretary general palestinian national initiative. author and distinguished fellow at the american industry of beirut. and president of the u.s. middle east project and former israeli negotiator. thank you all for being on "inside story." there's a lot of concern right now about what might come next after this surprise attack by hamas. israel has said there'll will be no food, no water, no electricity to gaza because of

this attack. how worried are you about what might come next? >> we're absolutely worried. what you have just described, no electricity, no supplies, means that netanyahu is conducting an act of -- against 2.2 million people. but more than that, this fascist government in israel -- and i insist on using the word fascist -- is threatening ethnic cleansing of 2.2 million people. how could netanyahu tell 2.2 million people living in gaza, a very small area,, that they should leave their homes? where should they go to? he wants to throw them in the sea. where should these people go? there is no safe place at this very moment in gaza. massacres are taking place. no less than 570 palestinians

have been killed so far. mostly 100% civilians including more than 100 children. candace will continue. netanyahu promises that he will bombard every house in gaza. how could the world accept this? i must mind you that 70% of the people in gaza today are refugees who were ethnically cleansed from their land in 1948 by the israeli troops. and now they want to ethnically cleanse them one more time? the basic question here, why are we in this? mainly because israel refuses to ends its occupation, they refuse to end their enslavement of the palestinian people. it is much worse, according to all human rights organizations, than the apartheid which was in south africa. this is a situation which no one

should tolerate. instead of the united states forcing israel to stop these massacres, they are encouraging them to attack more and more the palestinian people. host: we will come back to the u.s. role in a moment but i want to bring in daniel. the israelis are saying right now that this is a response to hamas's brazen attack on israel a few days ago, which saw hundreds of israelis killed as well. but how is a siege of gaza, a complete siege of gaza with no food or water to palestinians, which he rightly described as collective punishment, how is that going to ensure the security of israel? >> very simply, it isn't. very sadly, and these are heartbreaking pictures. one's heart breaks to see what has happened, and one trembles to see what is happening right now in gaza and what will

transpire over the coming days. but the sad truth is that position espoused by the israeli militia is precisely what got us here. and so it means they have learned nothing. i know that these are the most difficult days for the thinking to be different. but history did not begin three days ago. and mustafa barghouti just pointed out, who are these 2.2 million inhabitants of gaza? why are 70% of them refugees? until palestinians have security, israelis will not have security. that is the equation, that is the intertwined fate of these two peoples. and if israel thinks that there is a military solution, then we are condemned to relieve this

kind of conversation again and again and again. but i hope that this -- and this may be a pollyanna-ish hope -- that people will begin to ask themselves, is this the only way ? every day, palestinians live without the most basic security, predictability of life. israelis woke up to a trauma on the weekend. but they have to start getting into their heads that if palestinians are going to be denied the most basic rights, you have a very credible designation that the crime of apartheid is being committed in terms of israel's rule over the palestinians. if that is the reality in which palestinians live, then across geography, across history -- if all other avenues are closed to people, they take up arms resistance.

the most frustrating thing today, if i may, one additional comment. the most frustrating, painful thing, we have been warning policymakers for years that if every nonviolent avenue is closed, if you are not going to challenge israel to change its policies come at the u.n. and the icc through sanctions, with how you sell your weapons, then you are leaving only one outlet for change. host: you thoughts about what daniel and mustafa barghouti have set. what is your reaction to this evolving situation and what do you think led us to this point, do you think? >> i totally agree with them as usual. i am in cambridge, in boston, in the united states, and going back and forth from beirut. but watching events from here

for the last couple of years has clarified certain issues that i think are really important. the span of time the palestinians have suffered in the way that mustafa and daniel have described, it's 60, 70 years since 1948, but it goes back further than that. it is when the british started in 1915, stealing palestinian land and giving it to the zionist movement, which was a very small movement, -- this started a process in which zionism, jewish people, israel, whatever, had primacy in this land. and it continues today. and here from the west we see the united states sending a naval task force now, prepared

to fight if need be or to help israel. so, the fundamental dilemma, which is that the israeli zionist movement has never acknowledged that palestinians and israelis have equal rights. we have acknowledged that. palestinians have recognized it, but the israelis have not. exile for palestinians now is about 10 years longer than the ancient exile of the hebrews. an exiled people fight back. host: before i come back to mustafa, i want to pick up on something you said about the americans. the americans are deploying military. it is not just sending arms to israel, as they usually do, but a deployment, in their words, to contain the situation. what is it going to contain the situation, or is it inflaming it more?

rami: is that for me. host: yes. rami: so, from the american perspective, this is designed to send a signal to israel that we are with you, mostly in terms of supplies and logistics. but from the american view, it is also a signal to iran. the american media and political establishment is totally obsessed with iran. iran and china are now the threats in the world unable do anything to play off that threat. it is really a demonstration of almost mass hysteria. and we see it play out in the media and politics. by the way, the media coverage in the united states also reflects something really terrible. i went to journalism school in the united states. the way the mainstream media is

covering this situation, if that was judged against the standards taught in american journalism schools, they would get an f, they would get thrown out of school. host: let me come back to mustafa on the question of the iran obsession that rami raised. some news reports suggested hamas could not have done this on its own and that it had outside help. what are your thoughts about this? mustafa: and why shouldn't hamas get help from any country? israel is getting the utmost help from the united states, which is providing israel with the most sophisticated military equipment. and israel has 200 nuclear heads. european countries are supporting israel. united states is supporting israel. israel has an amazing network of support all over the world.

so why shouldn't hamas try to get support from somebody else? i think it is a very unreasonable question. host: do you expect the support from outside countries to hamas to continue and to become more visible? mustafa: no. let me explain here. there are two issues. first of all, palestinians are not relying on anybody. the big lesson we learned, especially after the normalization of arab countries with israel, is we should only depend on ourselves. we should be self-reliant. we should resist with our own abilities. and that is exactly what is happening today. but on the other hand, the issue of iran is a reminder of the israel behavior always. they always try and find a country to blame, and claim that palestinians are followers of that country. first it was saudi arabi --

first it was soviet union, then iraq, now iran, tomorrow is her by john -- tomorrow, i'll survive john -- host: this event and that new war might put that on hold, numeral is asian with the saudis. mustafa: absolutely. one of the reasons of what is happening today is palestinians felt their cause is being normalized. netanyahu went as far as going to the united nations and bringing map of israel including an annexed gaza and east jerusalem. so the message was clear. and netanyahu said it. no place for palestinian state. so what do you live in? a situation of enslavement? let me ask you, where in the world, like a country --

it's amazing that this is allowed to happen. netanyahu, in my opinion, is a criminal. he is ready to do anything to save himself. he is ready to kill palestinians and israelis. he is taking the risk of killing israeli prisoners in gaza. why is he doing that? he doesn't care about people. he cares about himself, about saving himself. this is the most opportunistic criminal leader ever in the middle east. host: daniel levy, let me get your thoughts on that, the endgame with netanyahu. you might help us understand what the thinking is right now in israel. what is the endgame with this new conflict in gaza? is it to be occupy gaza, or is it more than that? daniel: with your permission if i may just comment on a couple of points raised. because i think the other thing

that these events remind us is that the abraham accords and normalization stuff, this is not making peace in the middle east because this is not between warring parties. this is a lie the americans have told themselves in the world. and it is a problem when you get caught up with your own lives. because you lose eye contact, you lose touch with reality. the normalization accords to not address what the problem is. they address something else altogether. now, i think netanyahu is probably saying to himself, i do something spectacular, i get through this militarily. but what israel has faced here, what we have seen, is a staggering failure of

deterrence, intelligence, and of the military. and i think it would be a mistake, if i may, to suggest that the problem is netanyahu. his government has been focused on the judicial overhaul, he has protests against what he was pursuing. but the problem is they have been focused too much on the west bank and not paying enough against gaza. this narrative exists in israel. that is the easy go to place, but it ignores what i think is a far more fundamental malaise and decomposition within the system. here is where the americans come in. israel felt that palestinians, we got them, they are easy to manage, the world will let us do whatever we want to the palestinians, they don't need to be taken seriously. when there are periods of quiet, we can fritter those away by doing our worst, never trying to take any political initiative,

because they don't even recognize the core root problem here of palestinian disposition. so the dismissiveness, the hubris means that israel says we have the most amazing surveillance systems and they are not paying attention. needo go toe to toe with your adversary. you need to do other things. and america here is the greatest in power -- empowerer, enabler of that hubris. because america tells israel, we have your back. now, when america goes looking for opportunities to mistreat that its hubris trips it up when it invades other countries, it can always go back home. when israel indulges in this kind of hubris, it has an existential problem. and i tend to think that the days of occupation deluxe may be over. host: ok let's bring rami in on

that. do you agree with what daniel just described? he thinks the days of occupation may be coming to an end as a result of this attack and ensuing war. rami: yes, i think it is becoming clear that the dimensions of the nature, the longevity, and the meaning of w hat hamas has just done and continues to do -- there are still pockets within southern israel where fighting has been going on. the consequences of this are enormous, and we will not really see them for some days or weeks. but it's definitely clear that the nature of palestinian governments and facility has been shattered. the nature of israeli doctrine of military force and mowing the grass and starving palestinians, that has to come to an end because it has backfired, it does not work. the nature, the idea of israeli

superiority has been shattered. by the way, i would suggest to american urban police forces to think twice, having seen what just happened now. and the nature of american and western, british, and other support for israel in anything it wants to do, blocking the icc investigation -- the change that has to happen is that the invisibility and powerlessness and vulnerability and facility and suffering of the palestinian people since 1915 at the hands of british supported, and later american supported zionist colonialism, that has to change into a situation of negotiated peace, where the people and state of israel, and the palestinians and their people and all the surrounding states -- they all want equal rights.

everyone has made the offer, palestinians signed off on it, hamas even entered into negotiations. that is the -- to end the -- host: you talked about this a little while ago, the question of normalization. how is this going to play out regional bully -- our regionally? some arab countries have established relations with israel, the uae. saudi arabia was reportedly on a path to normalize relations with israel. that might now be on hold. but where does this leave the other countries in the region, vis-a-vis the palestinian issue and the palestinian people? rami: when you look at arab countries, you have to look at leaders and you have to look at people. what the leaders do is to stay in power, to make money, to have a meeting with jared kushner. this is what they continue to

do. the people of the region, not just arab people but iran, turkey -- people all over the world support equal rights for palestinians and israelis. we're not talking about throwing the israelis out of the middle east. we are talking about living with the israelis and palestinians with totally equal rights in resolving the palestine fiji issue, which was the beginning and core of this problem. the normalization things that go on are pretty meaningless beyond some stock exchange price increases for companies owned by people in leadership positions in the middle east and in north america. so i would not worry too much about it, because what hamas has done and the implications that we will see coming out of popular support, or what hopefully might translate into a new political arrangement in the region, does recognize the equal

rights of palestinians and israelis. but that force will have immense support among our public and spill over into the leaderships. host: mr. mustafa barghouti, let me ask you about a point rami raised. he said these events of the past few days will no doubt change the nature of palestinian governments. now, interestingly, we have heard very little from the palestinian authority in the last few days. why is that? mustafa: because they have had t he wrong line. and they are marginalized now. israel also major to marginalize them as much as possible. and they look irrelevant. they are now at a crossroad. are there -- either they joined their people and support the right of palestinians to resist, and engage in action that would lead to unity of palestinians around a program of struggling for our rights. or they would be marginalized completely. and i think what we need now is israel now has formed a unity

government. what we need now is a unified leadership with all palestinians together. the palestinian authority should put aside not only security coordination with the occupiers, but they should also put aside their internal division with hamas and except that we are all in one unified leadership. and prepare the ground for democratic elections and let people choose the leadership they want. host: go ahead, daniel. daniel: it is important to point out, as we are talking, we are seeing the europeans and others threatened to cancel their aid to the palestinians. and i think it is important in that context for people to realize that the west, on this question, is doing itself such a disservice if it wants to be taken seriously as a normative actor that in other spaces talks

about international law, talks about the rule of law. and on this question, it is not that the rest of the world supports the specific action this weekend. i think when you see the images, you recoil from that, just as you shudder at what is happening to the civilians in gaza. but if you are going to uphold international law, if you are going to claim that mental, you do it consistently. and that means you cannot indulge israel's violations every day of international law. you cannot indulge the war crime that netanyahu has just promised to commit in gaza. you can't have it both ways. and you cannot pretend that you are in different, or be in different, to what has happened to the palestinians day after day, year after year, decade after decade. host: thank you to all three of you for a great conversation. mustafa barghouti, daniel levy, rami khouri.

thank you all very much once again for joining us for this discussion today. and thank you for watching. you can always watch his program again any time by visiting our website at aljazeera.com. for further discussion got to our facebook page, facebook.com/ajinsidestory. and of course you can join the conversation on x, our handle is @ajinsidestory. from me on the whole team here in doha, thanks for watching. bye for now. ♪