10/12/23 10/12/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> this is where people in gaza used to seek safety. this is just to prove there is no place safe in gaza. amy: hospitals are going to be turned into graveyards. that is the warning from the international red cross about

the dire situation in gaza. where israel's massive bombardment has killed over 1300 50 people, including 326 children. much of gaza is without electricity and supplies of food and water are dwindling amidst israel's devastating siege after hamas's surprise attack that killed over 1300 people in israel. we will go to gaza for the latest. >> come and see how the palestinians are struggling in gaza. we no longer have the basic needs for life. life has ended in gaza. the palestinian residents are in shelters but they have no water or electricity or bread even. amy: we will also go to tel aviv to speak with a leading israeli human rights attorney who writes " israelis must maintain their humanity even when their blood boils."

all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. gaza's humanitarian crisis is deepening as israel continues to pummel the besieged palestinian territory with air and artillery attacks for a sixth straight day, reducing whole neighborhoods to rubble. gaza's ministry of health says israel's attacks have killed more than 1350 palestinians and wounded more than 6000. more than 320 children are among the dead. survivors have been seen searching the rubble of their homes for lost possessions and food. >> we lost her homes -- left our homes thinking we would return in an hour. we left everything we owned. people are left homeless without food, drink, water, or electricity. i do not know how we will provide for our children. i am searching in the rubble for remains.

amy: israel's energy minister said no basic resources or humanitarian aid, including water, will be allowed into gaza until hamas releases hostages. his warning came after gaza's only power station ran out of fuel, plunging the territory into darkness. the international committee of the red cross warned in a statement -- "as gaza loses power, hospitals lose power, putting newborns in incubators and elderly patients on oxygen at risk. kidney dialysis stops, and x-rays can't be taken. without electricity, hospitals risk turning into morgues." the u.n. agency for palestinian refugees, unrwa, reports at least 340,000 palestinians have been displaced across the gaza strip. unrwa also reports israeli strikes have killed nine u.n. staffers since saturday, with bombs damaging 18 schools being used as makeshift shelters. unrwa's headquarters in gaza city was also damaged by an israeli strike. in israel, the death toll from

hamas's assault has climbed to 1300, with 3300 israelis injured. an estimated 150 israelis are being held by hamas. israel's former defense minister, the opposition party leader and retired general benny gantz, said he would join an emergency wartime government and war cabinet led by prime minister benjamin netanyahu and current defense minister yoav gallant. on wednesday, netanyahu said every hamas member was a dead man, while gallant said he would wipe hamas off the face of the earth. the remarks came amid widespread reports israeli troops are amassing for a ground invasion of gaza. in the occupied west bank, israeli settlers killed two palestinians today in an attack on a funeral procession for four palestinians killed one day earlier by masked settlers and israeli soldiers. israeli troops have placed the entire west bank on lockdown and have killed at least 27 palestinians since saturday.

meanwhile, israel's far-right national security minister itamar ben-gvir said his ministry purchased 10,000 assault rifles, plus helmets and body armor to arm settler militias. he was previously convicted of racist incitement against palestinians and supporting a terrorist organization. israel's army has blamed human error for a false alarm wednesday that triggered air raid sirens in northern israel and sent residents scrambling for bomb shelters. israel's army initially reported a suspected infiltration from lebanon into israeli airspace. the alert came as armed groups continued to trade fire with israel's army across lebanon's border. meanwhile in breaking news, syrian state television reports an israeli attack has disabled a main airports in damascus and aleppo. u.s. secretary of state antony blinken arrived in tel aviv

for emergency talks with israeli officials. blinken was greeted by netanyahu. he said 25 citizens are among those killed by hamas. the u.s. has vowed to keep supporting israel with aid and military equipment and warned iran to "be careful." some reports have linked iran to hamas's attacks in israel. meanwhile, some republicans are calling for an all-out annihilation of gaza. this is south carolina senator lindsey graham. >> we are in a religious war. i am with israel. do whatever the hell you have to do, level the place. amy: the group jewish voice for peace has called for the u.s. to restrain israel, writing -- "the u.s. must work to immediately de-escalate to prevent the further loss of life, and not fuel and exacerbate the violence by sending more weapons to israel. there is only one way to end violence -- to address its root cause, 75 years of israeli military occupation and apartheid. we must end u.s. complicity in

this systemic oppression." in ankara, turkish president recep tayyip erdogan condemned israel's blockade of gaza and its relentless bombing campaign as a massacre. >> cutting off a city's water, electricity, entry and exits, collapsing its infrastructure, destroying all of its centers of worship from mosques to churches as well as their schools, preventing people from getting the most fundamental needs and bombing housing units were civilians reside -- in other words, managing a conflict using every sort of embarrassing method, this is not a war, it is a massacre. amy: on wednesday, the arab league convened an emergency meeting in cairo where it called on israel to immediately halt

its attacks on gaza for a return to negotiations with palestinians. in brussels, belgium, leaders of the european parliament let a moment of silence for victims of hamas. the leaders did not mention palestinian civilians killed by israel. landmarks across europe were lit up in blue and white colors of the israeli flight. -- flag. several hundred protesters defied a ban on pro-palestinian demonstrations. several protesters were arrested. hundreds in vienna, austria, defied a ban on protester call for an end of israel's assault on gaza. the world food programme is appealing for the international community to do more to help afghanistan after it suffered two major earthquakes in recent days, exacerbating an already dire humanitarian crisis. >> this is a disaster on top of the disaster on top of the disaster on top of a disaster. currently, we have 50 million people who do not know where

their next meal will come from. the world food program is only able to support 3 million people due to a massive funding shortfall, so we are calling on the international community to support the people. amy: international funding has steadily dropped after the taliban takeover two years ago. the u.s. has frozen billions of dollars in afghan assets in new york. the u.n. and other groups have also been restricted by the taliban's ban on women aid workers. here in the united states, house republicans nominated majority leader steve scalise to be the next speaker following kevin mccarthy's ouster last week. but scalise doesn't appear to have enough support to win the 217 floor votes needed to secure the position in a floor vote. a number of republicans have said they will vote for jim jordan, who was also vying for the leadership position, or kevin mccarthy. during his time as a state lawmaker in louisiana, scalise spoke as a guest at a white

supremacist group. he once told a reporter he was like "david duke without the baggage." the house will not be able to resume legislative business until a new speaker is elected, including work on a bill to keep the government funded beyond november 17. in labor news, united auto workers in kentucky shut down ford's largest plant as the union escalates its stand-up strike against the big three automakers, which also includes gm and stellantis. the plant employees nearly union 9000 workers who make some of company's most profitable vehicles, including pickup trucks and suv's. meanwhile in canada, autoworkers for general motors ended their strike less than a day after it started after reaching a tentative deal over pay and pensions. and acclaimed indian author and activist arundhati roy could be prosecuted in india over a speech she made in 2010 about the disputed and militarily occupied kashmir region. a criminal complaint was first filed against roy that year, accusing her of advocating for the secession of kashmir from

india. the territory is partially governed by india and pakistan but both countries claim kashmir in full. after 13 years, a top new delhi official has reportedly approved the case to proceed. arundhati roy's two other co-defendants have since died. many around the world have come to roy's defense, condemning her targeting as an attempt to silence roy and others who are critical of far-right indian prime minister narendra modi. roy recently attended a protest in new delhi in response to the coordinated police raids on the homes and offices of dozens of prominent indian journalists. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i am amy goodman joined by nermeen shaikh. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. the international red cross has issued a dire warning about the humanitarian catastrophe in gaza saying, "hospitals are going to be turned into graveyards." israel is continuing its

devastating bombing campaign while blocking all food, water, and fuel from entering the besieged territory. and israeli ground invasion appears imminent. gaza's only power plant has stopped operating due to a lack of fuel. according to the united nations, all of gaza's 13 hospitals are only partially operational due to a lack of fuel and medical supplies. gaza's ministry of health says at least palestinians have been 1350 killed since israel began bombarding the territory after saturday's surprise attack by hamas. meanwhile, the death toll in israel has topped 1300, including at least 200 israeli soldiers. according to authorities in gaza, israeli attacks have killed at least 326 palestinian children. the dead also include at least seven palestinian journalists, 11 staffers at the u.n. palestinian refugee agency, and four medics.

earlier today, an israeli strike killed 18 palestinians in a refugee camp. many children are now seeking refuge in the courtyard at al-shifa hospital, which is considered to be one of the only safe places in gaza. remas abu tabeekh is an 11-year-old palestinian girl. >> i have spent my 11 years in fear and anxiety. we stayed in the streets. there are planes. it is scary. there are bombing us, even while we are here. we are scared. >> as a 15-year-old child, i'm displaced for my home. i came here to al-shifa hospital. we are sleeping in the hospital with nonstop bombing above us. i hope the world will have mercy on us. amy: that was mohamed halas, a 15-year-old palestinian boy speaking in the courtyard of the al-shifa hospital.

hospital called for the -- other palestinians seeking refuge at the hospital called for the international community to help stop israel's bombardment. >> they slaughtered our children and destroyed our houses over our heads and here we are in the streets in the hospital. they have demolished all of the houses and on the children and toddlers and women. here we are scattered. let the world see how dead bodies are stacked over each other, children and toddlers. no country is able to control israel. where is the united states? where's the rest of the world? let them say something. we are homeless. we are destroyed. it has been five days with the food and water and we don't know where to go. children are everywhere, homeless. this is not right. let the world support us. we are poor people, palestinian people. nermeen: israeli authorities are vowing to continue the siege of gaza until hamas releases the 150 or so hostages it seized

during its unprecedented attack on saturday this is yifat zailer, an israeli woman who fears six of her relatives, including a nine-month-old baby, were taken hostage. >> it all started saturday morning, five days ago. around 9:00 in the morning, we lost connection with my family that lives down south. when the military finally entered the kibbutz and went to the houses to look for survivors, they did not find my aunt and uncle in their apartment and they are considered missing as well. so this is the situation. six members of my family are been held in gaza. there's a nine-month-old baby and a three-year-old child and my aunt has parkinson's disease.

i want them back. we all want our family back. amy: we go now to gaza where we are joined by two guests. mosab abu toha is a palestinian poet and author. columnist, teacher, and founder of the edward said library in gaza. his recent piece for "the washington post" is headlined "in gaza, no one can believe their eyes." he is the author of the award-winning book "things you may find hidden in my ear: poems from gaza." and we're joined by yousef hammash, advocacy officer in gaza for the norwegian refugee council. he lives in the gaza strip with his wife and two kids. he recently posted a video showing the destruction of gaza. >> this is where people in gaza used to sleep from the north and the eastern part, seeking safety. people used to consider it safety. this is just to prove there is no place safe in gaza.

destruction is everywhere. where can the people go? where should we go? amy: that was yousef hammash, advocacy officer in gaza for the norwegian refugee council. describe the situation. what does a total siege of gaza mean right now? from the hospitals to the schoolyards where people are taking refuge, describe it for us. >> the siege in general, is nothing new for palestinians. we are under the siege for more than 17 years. but add to that the unending cycle of violence. this war, we cannot compare it with what we have witnessed before. the massive bombardment. if you want to cross from another place, it is like a maze. thousands of people are getting killed. people are seeking shelter.

they are at capacity. i don't think there's a safe place in gaza. they are seeking safety. the situation is unacceptable. you cannot imagine what we're seeing in gaza, in the streets. this is something -- a new level of devastating war in gaza. nermeen: could you describe, given that devastation and the number of people who have been injured and displaced, what is the condition of the medical facilities in gaza? the health ministry has warned the health care system has truly begun to collapse. >> the medical has not been

upgraded in more than 17 years because of the siege on blockade on gaza. without electricity and the number of people who have been injured, thousands injured, they are above capacity at the hospitals. i was in al-shifa hospital. they were trying to treat people in the corridors. people are also seeking shelter inside the hospital. without electricity, this is affecting everyone most of the entire process of the medical system is affected. it was already collapsing before. this is horrible what we are seeing. nermeen: what have you heard from hamas about releasing the hostages or taking any steps to change the situation? >> unfortunately until now, we did not see anything from inside

or outside. we don't see a real intervention from outside or inside. i am a gazan. i am a refugee. i don't have enough space in my head to think about the political situation and what they're doing now. we're trying to provide safety for our own children. we cannot provide without water and electricity. i had to come from the northern part of gaza where i live to do this interview. i ha to come to a church to find -- to have a space to deliver the message from gaza. there's nothing on the horizon for a solution. that is what has esterified. we cannot stay in the situation any longer. within days we will have nothing and. right now we have no electricity and no water or no food. amy: yousef hammash, you have

debed the sound, the panic everywhere. also you are with the norwegian refugee cancel and you came from the refugee camp that was bombed. if you can describe, where was a bomb? how many casualties? also you are with nrc. yeah 52 staff members who live and work in gaza. unwra said 12 workers have been killed. how can you all function? >> first of all, to come from the refugee camp to do this interview, it was literally a maze. you found people trying to move from here to there. it is a chaotic situation. our work as a humanitarian, even our staff, our partners in gaza, we cannot -- [indiscernible]

i don't have number but i think the majority of our staff had to leave their houses along with most of our partners, the u.n. agencies. we need access to deliver humanitassistance for those in dire need. more than half the population was under humanitarian aid. yet one of the highest unemployment rates on the planet. after that people displaced with nothing. we need to serve these people. until now we cannot secure ourselves to start to deliver assistance for others. nermeen: i would like to bring in mosab abu toha who is also in gaza, poet and author, teacher and founder of the edward said library in gaza. his recent piece for "the washington post" is headlined

"in gaza, no one can believe their eyes." he is the author of the award-winning book "things you may find hidden in my ear: poems from gaza." welcome to democracy now! if you could describe the situation around you and speak specifically about the impact of what is happening on children. you yourself have a seven-year-old daughter. >> i have three kids. the youngest is 3.5 years old. the situation hasrtedas everyone knows, six days ago. mbnever stopped. what is different this time is every hour you hear about the deaths of dozens of people. just last night in a refugee camp, about 15 people were found from under the rubble of their

housesle they were sleeping inside thinking they were safe. i was born in that refugee camp. now i live in the northern part of the gaza strip. the bombing has not stopped. i can see plumes of smoke rising in the sky from my window. just covering every house. the children are victims. everyone in gaza is a victim of what has been happening. palestine and gaza, for so many years. but the children, especially, have been the main victims of these terroristic attacks. whether it is the sound of the explosions, the shaking of the houses, the scenes on facebook of so many limbless and beheaded people who were pulled from under the rubble of their houses -- just today -- i mean, last

night, my son who is three years old, was sleeping and there was bombing in the area. he woke up and said, who did that? he said, make it stop. that is the first time he was asking me to do that as if i was responsible for the bombing. i have nothing to do as a father, nothing to do as a neighbor or son. we are helpless. we have been helpless all our lives. while united states, unfortunately, is always supporting israel. instead of trying to understand why what is happening is happening and change it and offer solutions, they're just adding more fuel to the fire. amy: how do you respond to president biden as antony blinken just arrived in tel aviv and made a statement with prime minister netanyahu, who say that

terrorism will not be accepted? you have people like the far right minister who said palestinians have one of three options, either to emigrate or accept a life of subjugation to israelis or die? can you respond to what has taken place and these statements? >> this is not very shocking to me. in fact, if mr. blinken could visit tel aviv and stave there, -- i'm sorry to say they cannot come to gaza and visit us because israel would deny him a permit. there's a big difference between the supporters of israel, the powers that are supporting israel and whoever wants to support the palestinians whether in gaza or the west bank. i mean, why don't they come here and visit us?

i've never heard of any president coming to gaza and talking to us as people the way they come to israel. they're not only talking to them, they're providing them with assets, providing them with weapons. they're using these weapons on us. we have no option. where do we emigrate? we have -- we were born on this land. my parents were born on this land. my grandparents were born on this land. my great grandparents were born here. ask anyone in israel, most of them will tell you there grandparents were born somewhere else. i only have a palestinian passport which is not very helpful when i leave gaza. if i could leave gaza. i remember one time when i went to the united states for the first time in 2019. i gave my passport to the officer at the airport and they said, oh, your passport is expired.

they were reading the wrong date. the dates are written right to left, posted the english way of writing left or right. he could not read this is a palestinian passport, and arab country, different from europe and united states. so where do we go? netanyahu on the second day asked the palestinians in gaza to leave. he said, leave now. aware and why yeah -- but where and why? we have nowhere else to go. nermeen: earlier today, palestinian officials said secretary of state blinken will meet with the palestinian president abbas on friday, that is to say tomorrow. could you respond to that and what you think might come out of that meeting? >> unfortunately, president abbas could not help with the

situation in gaza. if you want to help the palestinians, you should come to gaza. you could come -- send officials to the gaza strip and listen to our desires, to our basic needs. i don't want you just to be president abbas, with all due respect, he is the president of the palestinian authority. i think they're just meeting him because they want to show the world we are meeting with netanyahu and the palestinian president. but this is not going to save our lives. meeting with netanyahu, i know they are supporting him economically, politically, militarily. if he is going to meet with president abbas, what is he going to tell him? is he going to support him? send food and medicine trucks to the gaza strip? if they're going to send any trucks to the gaza strip, they are going to bomb the trucks. and they did bomb the rafah

border crossing area, which led to egypt shutting down the border crossing. i did say one time that gaza has been the largest open air prison in the world. now it has become, with the closure of the two border crossings between gaza and egypt and gaza and israel, it has become a prison cell with a window. amy: yousef hammash, we have less than a minute to go. if you can talk about what needs to happen right now, the government media office has just released a statement warning the delay in response to the relief appeal is starting up a seizure enclave into a mass grave. >> immediately, we need to stop the massacres happening around us and we need a longer-term solution.

i can be on for an hour with what i have witnessed. we need a longer-term solution. the international community and world leaders should ensure a longer-term solution for palestinians in gaza. start by stopping this war and letting the -- lifting the blockade and finding a longer-term solution for us. this is unacceptable. i agree with my neighbor, but what we are going through is traumatizing us and i really believe we need years to recover from what is going on now. this has to stop medially. amy: yousef hammash, advocacy officer in gaza for the norwegian refugee council. mosab abu toha is a palestinian poet and author. we will link to his new piece in

"the washington post" "in gaza, no one can believe their eyes." coming up, we speak to an israel i human rights attorney. back in 30 seconds. ♪♪ [music break] amy: "a mother's lullaby" by sabreen. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report.

i'm amy goodman. nermeen: to talk more about the israeli assault on gaza, the siege on hamas's shocking attack on israel, we're joined by longtime israeli human rights lawyer michael sfard. he is an expert on international human rights and international laws of war. he represents palestinian and israeli activists and human rights organizations. he is also the author of the book "the wall and the gate: israel, palestine, and the legal battle for human rights." his new op-ed on haaretz is titled "israelis must maintain their humanity even when their blood boils." he joins us in tel aviv, israel. thank you so much for joining us, michael. welcome to democracy now! if you could talk about your piece that you wrote for haaretz "israelis must maintain their humanity even when their blood boils." >> good morning to you and thank you very much for having me.

these are terrible, terrible days. actually quite a nightmare that we are living through and my heart goes out to the previous interviewees from gaza. we have experienced a shock. i have to mediate to you the sentiment in the israeli society. the attack was a savage attack, targeting civilians going from one house to another in civilian neighborhoods and killing, murdering women, children, elderly, innocent people and also in the scene of the party, killing hundreds of people. the blood boils. it is not just the blood boils, but also one feels a puncture in

the heart, a hole in the stomach. and now the question is, what do you do with that? what do you do with this, confronting this inhuman attack? do you fill the punctured heart and a hole in your belly with cement, with concrete, or do you fill it with the warmth of compassion? i am afraid to say that many israelis are extremely filled with rage and desire for revenge. and i is a human rights lawyer and the last three decades, working tirelessly dedicating my professional career to protect the rights of everyone, especially palestinian communities who are under occupation, under resume of apartheid, and under the very

cruel blockade in gaza. the only way that i know is to put the cry to adhere to the norms of international law. i have to say i want to shout but i understand at this time there is very little space for a voice like that. when i hear the leaders of the state of israel and the generals and the rhetoric suggests that things in the past denied the israeli army is doing in the cycle of attacks on gaza is now almost probably an official policy. targeting en mass, inhabited areas, starving people as a method of warfare -- i mean, this is -- if what hamas has done was a blatant war crime --

i mean, the legal term is war crime but in fact it is a crime against humanity and they morals -- in the moral sense. it is an attack on everything human, to take hostage, women with their children, elderly and and women in wheelchairs. this is just incomprehensible. but now my government is waging an attack that seems to be using war crimes to retaliate on war crimes. this is definitely not what should be done now. amy: as a lawyer, as an israel, as a jewish human rights lawyer, can you talk about what collective punishment means, legally and morally? i think about the pittsburgh synagogue, which was the worst killing of jews in the united states and

many years, the brutal attack this week in, the worst killing of jews since the holocaust. but the idea of the response being to attack an area of land that is the home to over 2 million people -- in this case, 2 million palestinians. if you can explain when the shooter shot up the pittsburgh synagogue, they did not destroy u.s. authorities, his community come his neighborhood. they went after him, they tried him stuff michael sfard, can you respond? >> every moral, human moral system that i know rejects collective punishment. definitely modern ones. it also we find it and the bible that children should not bear

the spoiled fruits that their fathers have eaten. there are many, many commandments even in the bible, which is a very old system of norms, that says that people should individually be found responsible for crimes they are committing. of course international law, modern international law, prohibits with no exception collective punishment. we have very clear language written into the regulations of1 1907 and the geneva convention of 1949. it is something that every -- each and every one of us has to have an instinct as a moral, basic principle that people

should bear responsibility for their deeds and not their neighbors and not their people, not their sisters or brothers or mothers or fathers. it is not the first time that gazans are paying the price for things that are done by hamas or by other groups in the palestinian society. not only in gaza, but also the west bank. this is abhorrent, but this is exactly what is going on. under international law, it is a war crime to inflict collective punishment on civilians. nermeen: michael, more israeli citizens were killed saturday during -- then during the entire intifada in 2000-2005. more jewish people were killed than -- over 1300, since the holocaust.

secretary of state tony blinken speaking earlier today invoke the experience of his stepfather who survived the concentration camp. if you could say -- you have said it is very important to understand the context under which hamas's attack took place. do you believe in israel or elsewhere there are enough people coming out with your position, condemning both hamas 's attack as well as the occupation and israel's response in gaza? >> there are people in israel that feel -- that have the same sentiment that i have voiced in my op-ed and i am expressing here, but i have to be honest. we are experiencing now a huge setback. i don't know when there will be space for these kind of

messaging in israel or palestine, for that matter. again, when the blood boils, people choose -- this is probably a human feature, but it is not a good one. humans have many good features, but they have a lot of bad ones. this is a bad one. they want revenge. as if revenge would bring back those dear ones that are gone. yes, in reference to the holocaust. people in israel have a very special mental vocabulary. events of saturday have immediately triggered the scenes of pogroms in russia and ukraine of the 19th century and of course the holocaust. and the threat of annihilation,

which is of course irrational because we do have an army that had a huge collapse and of course one that would be investigated, and amazing failure. and yet the israeli army is strong and israel is not under threat of annihilation and yet this is exactly what people feel. one has to understand that in order to understand the israeli sentiment, people are feeling under threat of annihilation. that is a part of our collective psychology. it is not just benign nine. it is not just something that we have grown into by chance. it is something that is injected and and dr. ernest from early age. -- and dr. nice from an early age. after struggle with making these comparisons. that allows the israeli

government and army to do stuff that people should in a normal circumstance object to. amy: how do you respond, when you bring up the occupation not as a justification for what happened this weekend, but saying it is essential to understand and to result at this point, that these are not two equal nations where one invaded another? in the midst of all of this, israel is responsible for what happens on the west bank and gaza. >> yes, amy, context is important. i want to pause for a moment is a context is important in order to understand the root causes and in order to think of what is the way out, what is the way forward. but sometimes context is brought

as a means to mitigate the horrific nature of what has happened. while i am ready and i will say some things about context, i do wish to say what we have seen on saturday has no specification whatsoever. it is a crime. it is inhuman. this is something -- a every abhorrent crime has a context. government is under occupation. it is an occupation coupled with accrual blockade. blockade that put more than 2.5 million people for more than a decade and a half in a closed up area, that either controls most borders and the airspace and the goods that flow in and the people that go in and out. israel retains gaza on the verge

of suffocation. and this is inhuman. by the way, in the line of those responsible for this blockade, israel stands first. at the line is long and includes the western world that allows it most of i can't recall any other context in which the international community and the western powers allow such a blockade on millions of innocent people and not come over with a plan to end it. occupation and yes israel is the strong power here and yes israel is the one that maintains that blockade. if you look in the last decade and a half, it seems like there was no reason for israel to change his policy. america was fine with it. europe was fine with that. the u.n. didn't do much about it. i just hope -- i hope from this

very deep pit we are in that we will start now -- i mean, we are now in the eye of the storm. it is too early to say where we are heading. i don't pray, i'm not a religious person, but i desire that maybe from this calamity, we will start crawling out of that pit. and we can try to do all -- trying to go different roads was to eventually. the road nevis before us. it is international law. it is respect for the dignity for all people and for their rights and further collective rights, for the rights of self-determination. there will be no end to this, no end to bloodshed, no end to the conflict without adhering to the principles that humanity has

adopted. it's long scarred history of man-made catastrophes. nermeen: we have less than a minute, but if you could say something -- sorry to interrupt you, about the status of the israeli hostages who have been taken by hamas? what do you know about them and what you expect will happen? what do you know about what happen -- what might happen? >> one of the terrible things about the hostage situation is that hamas would not provide any information about their condition. and that is an abuse, psychological abuse for the families. i heard all kinds of statements threatening to hurt them, to kill them. i know very little and,

unfortunately, my friends in gaza who are my colleagues in gaza, i fear for them, too, and i don't know how they are, if they are safe or if they are alive. i just want to end with the following, my maternal grandmother was a holocaust survivor. she hid in the warsaw ghetto and then on the area inside of warsaw for several years. she had with her mother and sister. she wrote probably the biggest challenge in the face of inhumanity, and being a victim is to remain human. there are so many victims. the challenge is those victims that went through living hell will retain their humanity. amy: michael sfard is an israeli

human rights lawyer. we will link to your new article for haaretz titled "israelis must maintain their humanity even when their blood boils." speaking to us from tel aviv. coming up, we speak to a palestinian journalist. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "once upon a city" by faraj suleiman. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: palestinians and israelis have grown accustomed to wars in the south in recent years, but the that began in the early hours of saturday october 7 is nothing like the others. those of the opening lines of a new piece in the london review of books by our next guest, the palestinian journalist amjad iraqi who joins us from london. the article is headlined "get out of there now." amjad iraqi is a senior editor at +972 magazine and a policy member of al-shabaka. his latest piece for +972 is headlined "a psychological barrier has just been shattered in israel-palestine." welcome to democracy now!

thank you so much for joining us. if you could explain why you think this invasion is different from the past and what psychological barrier has been broken? >> thank you for having me. i think there's no doubt in many respects what we have been witnessing over the past couple of days is a game changer. there are two ways to think about this. one is this material and military shift that has occurred by the fact hamas broke out of the gaza strip but also the massacres that happened in the israeli towns that is not only broken the assumption of gaza as this place that could maintain palestinians and cage ms but has shaken what has existed in the israeli establishment that the

occupation is somehow sustainable. and if they keep enforcing institutions of apartheid, keep pounding hamas in the gaza strip that somehow it will bring them security, bring safety. through that they can continue to climb israel is the democracy and a safe place for the jewish people. what we witnessed with these atrocities that happened is a complete shattering of that. it has broken israeli society that palestinians are not a distant problem, they cannot keep having the boot of the military apparatus upon them. i'm not sure how much this will have a lot of soul-searching and reflection as we are seeing this complete desire to inflict total revenge on the gaza strip from the political establishment to the media all the way down. but that barrier that exists in the israeli state that the

system could work has been broken by this assault. amy: you right in your piece that these events will allow the most extremist elements within netanyahu's far right administration to carry out as much of their agenda as possible. can you respond in particular to what the finance minister and the national security minister, convicted of supporting a terrorist organization and inciting hatred against palestinians, what they want to happen now and if you think that will become the dominant actions of the netanyahu government? the word government is they're calling it now, bringing in others into the government as well at this point? >> so it is no secret the israel i government is primarily being led by a gang of far right demagogues who have been very

explicit for years, even before they arrived in office, about their ambitions for the palestinians as a whole. we're seeing that in full force the past few months since the government has been in place through the enabling analyst over to support of settler programs against west bank towns and villages -- programs against west bank towns and villages that has led to the expulsion of people in order to make way for even more outposts and paved the way for even more what they describe as israeli sovereignty. now for the far right government, this massacre, as atrocious as it is, is an historic opportunity. it is reinforcing this idea the only solution to what they regard -- either complete mass destruction of the strip or try to eliminate rather than merely contain hamas's political

military apparatus. and if possible, and this is one of the most horrific potentials, is the potential this moment could be used to try to expel palestinians from the gaza strip. the far right ministers are very explicit about this ambition and are trying to mobilize the israeli institutions to implement that process. while we are still in the throes of the storm, seeing the first demand on their wish list being implemented. there is a massive neutral interest not just in the part of the far right politicians, but also the israeli military that has been humiliated by this massive reach of gaza defenses, by hamas, completely subverting it. because of this shattering, the israeli military arguably is alone political establishment for what to do with this.

time will tell where this leads, but we are already seeing this indulgence of revenge not just on the israeli institutions but the international community, including the u.s., which is basically telling israel to go ahead and justify the revenge without necessarily having to excuse the massacres -- which they should not -- but nonetheless to realize there is no military issue and the role problem is this wider apartheid regime that is activating even when you don't have a war around gaza, activating even on your "calm." this is the bigger issue that needs to be addressed. nermeen: everybody says come as you say, this was unprecedented that hamas broke to the barrier, people say they have been planning this attack for a long time. what statement have they made sense this military assault on gaza began? what do you know what they're doing with the hostages and whether they are willing to

release them in exchange for gaza getting some basic resources? >> it is quite hard to say what the end game is. in many was, the assault probably surprise them as much as i did the israelis. it seems like they're trying to figure out what bargaining chips they have in order to gain certain agreements with the israeli authorities, to try to mediate some kind of cease fire that helps to meet certain hamas demands. they have been explicit about some things they're seeking, which are long-standing issues that existed even before this far right government, including release palestinian prisoners, including provocations and aggressions around jerusalem, especially around the holy sites. and also what has been happening in the west bank and the israeli occupation. these are structural demands still at play and it seems hamas is chinese technically -- is

trying to use tactically to turn the tables. we are not -- we are still saying -- it is hard to know where this is leading. amy: palestinian journalist amjad iraqi,

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