11/15/23 11/15/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> we did not know what was happening.

amy: the israeli military is raiding al-shifa, the largest hospital in gaza where thousands of palestinians had sought refuge or medical treatment. tanks are inside the complex and israeli is holding palestinian men naked and blindfolded. we will get the latest. we will also look at tuesday's march for israel in washington where leading democratic and republican lawmakers shared the stage with the radical christian zionist pastor john hagee who once said god had "sent hitler to help jews reach the promised land." >> israel is the shining city on the hill. god says of israel, israel is my firstborn son. amy: plus, we speak to the journalist peter beinart and rabbi alissa wise. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and

peace report. i'm amy goodman. israeli ground forces have raided gaza's largest medical facility al-shifa hospital, where hundreds of patients are still being treated and thousands have taken shelter. the idf has been interrogating displaced people and staff. medical workers were forced to move premature babies and other patients as the hospital was turned into a war zone, sending dangerous dust and debris into the air. >> it is the direct targeting. patients are being evacuated who were evacuated in the first case from the to secure to the hallways. amy: on tuesday, people trapped by israeli forces in al shifa hospital were forced to dig a mass grave within the hospital compound to bury the dead. israel's assault on gaza's collapsed health infrastructure has also targeted al-rantisi children's hospital, which, like

almost all hospitals in gaza, was forced to shutter and evacuate all patients. >> the hospital was deceased by tanks and water. they were various targeting of the hospital. we were forced to evacuate the hospital from patients to medical staff as well as the displaced families that came for protection inside the facility and buildings. a lot of patients were carried by their families. amy lovess -- ambulances couldn't reach the hospital. unfortunately, there were three patients in the icu who were left. amy: al-rantisi hospital houses the only pediatric cancer ward. over 11,300 palestinians have been killed by israel since october 7. the true death toll is likely much higher. children make up the largest percentage of victims. at least 1.7 million of gaza's

2.3 million inhabitants have been displaced. many of them are now facing heavy rains as fear mounts of flooding overwhelming the sewage system. this is a displaced palestinian . >> i still wish for winter to arrive and for the rain to fall, for the trees to start to bloom and grow so we could harvest. when everything looks beautiful. but right now i pray every day for it not to rain. we're living in tents, nothing that protects us. when the rain falls, we will drown. amy: while the rain brought misery to now-homeless gazans, some also welcomed the downpours for finally providing drinkable water. in the occupied west bank of israeli forces killed at least eight palestinians, seven during 15-hour israeli military raid in the northern city of tulkarm. the hospital was attacked with a barrage of tear gas canisters

that covered the facility with thick haze. since october 7, nearly 200 palestinians have been killed by israeli soldiers and settlers in the west bank. israel's military on tuesday confirmed the death of a soldier taken hostage by hamas on october 7. hamas released video of the captive 19-year-old noa marciano before her death, as well as a photo of her apparently after she was killed, which hamas blamed on an israeli airstrike last week. meanwhile, the families of other israeli hostages kicked off a five-day march from tel aviv to jerusalem to demand prime minister netanyahu do more to secure their release. belize has become the latest nation to suspend diplomatic relations with israel over its war on gaza. meanwhile, the deputy permanent observer for palestine to the u.n. responded to recent comments by german chancellor olaf scholz, who said israel is a democracy that respects international law and human

rights. majed bamya wrote on social media -- "i am now convinced there is another international law that we don't know about and that the german chancellor and others are referring to, one that allows colonization, collective punishment, indiscriminate attacks, wanton destruction, racial discrimination as long as your name is israel." in the u.s., over 500 political appointees in employees across 40 government agencies sent a letter to president biden tuesday to protest the support of israel's war on gaza. in washington, d.c., thousands converged on the national mall for the "march for israel" tuesday. while some rally-goers condemned the rise of anti-semitism and called for the release of israeli hostages, others brandished signs calling for israel to keep bombing gaza. among the high-profile speakers at tuesday's protest were senate majority leader chuck schumer and the christian fundamentalist

house speaker mike johnson. >> as prime minister netanyahu says oh well, this is a fight between good and evil, light and darkness, civilization and barbarism. amy: cnn political contributor van jones took to the stage and called for ending all the horror, while branding himself a peace guy, prompting the crowd to start chanting "no ceasefire!" another speaker at yesterday's rally was far-right pastor john hagee, a known anti-semite who once said hitler was sent by god to exterminate jewish people. yemen's houthi rebels have launched a series of missile and drone attacks against israel over the last couple of days. the israeli military said tuesday it had intercepted a missile near the red sea. meanwhile, in syria, at least 66 people, including children, were killed and hundreds of others wounded in the last month as syrian government forces and russian allies have intensified their bombardments in idlib and

aleppo. the u.s. house of representatives passed a short-term funding bill to keep the government open until early 2024, sending the measure to the senate ahead of friday's midnight deadline. the bill was approved tuesday 336-to-95, with nearly two thirds of the votes coming from democrats. the bill does not include spending cuts or policy changes as demanded by the house freedom caucus. new house speaker mike johnson instead appealed to more moderate republicans and the majority of democrats. the bill also does not include military funds for israel and ukraine. president biden announced a $6 billion plan as part of the inflation reduction act to reinforce the country's climate resilience, including upgrading water infrastructure, measures to mitigate flood risks, and modernizing the electric grid. the announcement came as the government released its national climate assessment on tuesday. pres. biden: this assessment shows us in clear scientific

terms that climate changes impacting all regions, all sectors of the united states, not just some. it shows communities across america are taking more action than ever to reduce climate risk and warns more action is still badly needed. amy: in related news, the united nations released its latest report on climate plans of countries around the world. the u.n. concludes nations are recklessly off track to meet global climate goals and that even if countries successfully achieve all of their current climate pledges, emissions would still rise 9% above 2010 levels. u.n. secretary-general antónio guterres warned -- "the world is failing to get a grip on the climate crisis. national plans are strikingly misaligned with the science. cop28 must be the place to urgently close the climate ambition gap." democracy now! will be covering the u.n. climate summit in human december. rights groups and democratic congressmembers called for

passage of the end solitary confinement act during a virtual rally tuesday. the federal legislation, introduced by congress member cori bush, would prohibit the use of solitary confinement for more than four hours and create safe alternatives. congressmember adriano espaillat said -- "solitary is a form of torture and causes long lasting irreparable harm to confined individuals, the majority of whom are black and brown." senator bernie sanders held a hearing tuesday to call for the strengthening of union protections amid a wave of labor victories and persistent inequality in the united states. sanders urged congress to pass the pro act, which he reintroduced earlier this year. united auto workers president shawn fain, fresh off his union's successful strike against the big three automakers, called on congress to step up for the working class. sara nelson, president of the association of flight attendants, testified about the importance of a living wage for all airline and airport workers. >> you have workers who can't

make a living wage who are sleeping in the gate areas because they are working around the clock, shifts around-the-clock. that makes all of us less safe. they cannot live near the airports because they're usually in major metropolitan areas and have to take transportation sometimes three hours back and forth so they don't have time to go home. we have to raise the standard for all the workers. it is about safety and security and basic dignity at work. amy: but republican senator markwayne mullins delivered the hearing's most stunning moment, when he revived an ongoing feud with teamsters president sean o'brien, challenging him to a physical fight. >> this is a time and place, you want to run your mouth, we can finish it here. >> that's fine. >> you what to do it now? close stand your butt up. >> you stand your butt up.

close you are a united states senator. amy: after ordering mullins to sit down, senator sanders added -- "god knows the american people have enough contempt for congress, let's not make it worse." and in san francisco, president biden is meeting with chinese president xi jinping on the sidelines of the asia-pacific economic cooperation summit. it's xi's first visit to the united states in six years. ahead of the meeting, biden told reporters he hopes to reduce the heightened tensions between the two nations. pres. biden: get back on a normal course of corresponding, being able to pick up a phone and talk to one another if there's a crisis, make sure our military still have contact with one another. amy: as the apec summit got underway this week, an array of protests took over san francisco streets ranging from the war on gaza, climate crisis, and the treatment of the uyghur community in china. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by democracy now!'s juan

gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: we begin the show in gaza, where israel is conducting a military raid on al-shifa, the largest hospital in gaza where thousands of palestinians have sought refuge or medical treatment. the palestinian authority has decried the raid as a violation of international law. there are reports israeli troops have ordered all young men on the hospital grounds to surrender. many palestinian men are already being interrogated, some while being held naked and blindfolded. israel has accused hamas of placing a command center below al-shifa, but hamas and hospital officials have denied the claim. israeli tanks are now inside the hospital complex. this is dr. ahmed al mokhallati, a plastic surgeon at al-shifa. >> we don't know what is

happening. [indiscernible] >> what are these sounds i'm hearing? >> continuous shooting from the tanks. [indiscernible] it is a total risky situation. amy: doctors in al-shifa are struggling to keep patients, including many premature babies alive amid a lack of fuel and the israeli military raid. >> i am standing here at the icu at al-shifa medical complex.

the department is suffering after the shutdown of electricity due to the lack of fuel. the health ministry warned about the lack of fuel. this department today was struck by the occupation forces. the icu and these children who were on life machines and official respiration were taken into the corridors of the icu department. these people here were denied life-support devices. around 29 patients are facing this tragedy. amy: we are joined now by dr. mads gilbert, a norwegian physician who has worked in al-shifa for years. just spent weeks in cairo trying his best to get into gaza. he is a professor at university hospital of north norway who has

worked with palestinians since 1981 and was in gaza during the major israeli bombardments of 2006, 2009, 2012, and 2014. dr. gilbert, where are you right now? >> right now i am in johannesburg in south africa. i will be on a speaking tour. a we just have a few minutes. i know you have been speaking to people within gaza, in al-shifa. can you talk about the scene we just described? what do you understand is happening there? >> if i should choose today between hell and al-shifa, i would choose hell. i got a report yesterday 20 of the 23 icu patients have died. 17 other patients died because of lack of supplies, oxygen, and water.

three if not five of the 38 premature newborns have died because of this slow suffocation that israeli occupation army is exposing all of the hospital to buy cutting electricity, oxygen, and medical supplies. it is beyond description. i am out of words to describe this systematic, man-made slaughtering of patients in civilian hospitals. when i heard the crowd of the united states shout "no cease-fire come cry i think that is the only place on earth where people are supporting israel. the other streets of the world are supporting a cease-fire, human solution, a lift of the siege, and support for the people of gaza. this is a deeply divided world. lies are flying around like never before. i think we need to keep our heads and hearts calm and understand what we're seeing is an unprecedented attack on civilian society occupied by one

of the most brutal and ruthless armies in the world, exercising a systematic attack on civilian health care -- completely against international law and the standards -- line being backed by the u.s. president. if you look at the u.n. numbers that are coming up every day, 40,000 palestinians have been killed or are missing in the rubble or have been injured. 40,000. 6000, killed and missing our children stop when did that become the defense of a country? when did it become decent to drag neonatal out of their incubators and kill children? the only expedition is a deep-rooted and frightening racism. because you don't do these things to people you consider your equal. i am extremely disturbed and

upset and blame the european leaders and your president for this led shed of people -- bloodshed of people who are being completely just p defense. their singing influx of patients walking from the north having followed the israeli command and were shot in the legs. they were treating gunshots in the legs for people trying to escape the north. juan: dr. gilbert, what the israeli government continues to insist hamas is using the hospitals and gaza as command centers and underground headquarters for storing weapons even hostages. what is your response to these claims? >> where are you in the media conveying these false claims continuously and taking the attention away from the problem,

namely the continuous bombing and killing the people in gaza? there is no proof so far that i know of, neither from the u.s. intelligence nor from the israeli intelligence and we have her these accusations for 16 years. show us the proof. show us the evidence. and don't forget the geneva convention is telling the fighting parties to make the distinction and percussion if it is a mixed military and civilian target, the civilian percussion takes priority over the military. they have been bombing not only shifa and al coots, but lots of hospitals. they bombed the pediatric hospital. they say, oh, it has to be the terrorists. this is a big sham and i am a

bit worried you in the media are so easily conveying these unsubstantiated accusations. regardless, they don't have a right obama hospitals. that is clear. -- right to bomb hospitals. that is clear. now al-shifa is being evacuated and it is really a convoy of shame to the western world and the united states to see these hospitals, the last resorts in a dramatic assault on the survey population in gaza who have done nothing wrong other than being borne palestinians in gaza. this convoy of misery is the result of a lenient attitude to the israeli relation of international law through many, many years. the israeli impunity has reached a new level and we're all sinking into that this disregard

for human life and amenity as we are seeing this going on without anybody trying to stop the israeli army. amy: dr. mads gilbert, thank you for being with us, norwegian physician, attempted to go back to al-shifa but was not able to. now speaking to us from johannesburg, south africa. coming up, peter beinart of jewish currents. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in israel, family members of some of the 240 hostages being held by hamas have begun a five-day march from tel aviv to jerusalem where they plan to arrive saturday. the family members are accusing the prime minister of not doing enough to free their loved ones. on monday, hamas offered to release up to 70 women and

children hostages in exchange for a five-day cease-fire and the release of 275 palestinian women and children prisoners being held in israeli jails. israel has ignored the offer so far and has rejected all calls for a cease-fire. meanwhile, tens of thousands of people gathered in washington, d.c., for a march for israel were speakers and rally goers repeatedly voiced opposition to a cease-fire. to talk more about the overall situation, we're joined by peter beinart, editor-at-large of jewish currents. professor of journalism and political science at the newmark graduate school of journalism at the city university of new york, cuny. he writes a newsletter on substack called the beinart notebook. welcome back to democracy now! i want to start with president biden saying there is about to be a hostage release and if you can talk about what this deal -- you can't possibly know what we're talking about here, but

the issue of the trade for these hostages for prisoners and these prisoners are that hamas is demanding be released. >> i don't know the details but i pray this will happen. many of the hostage families have been calling for this. i can't even imagine the agony of these families not knowing where the relatives are and if they are alive or dead. in our own family, we have all of the names of the hostages on our fridge raider door so we see them every -- refrigerator door. so we see them every day. there are palestinians who have been imprisoned often for a long time, sometimes detention without any due process. it seems to me allowing women and children, palestinian women and children who have been held under those conditions as part of a negotiated deal would be a humane gesture on both sides. amy: can you talk about some of the leaders who are imprisoned by israel right now?

>> i think one of the problems in palestinian politics is there is a whole generation of leaders who are in jail. most famously, marwan barghouti. he is not an islamist. pulling shows he is the most popular palestinian leader. israel needs to think about what it's political strategy is here. you can't defeat hamas militarily because even if you depose it in gaza, you will be laying the seed for the next group of people who will be fighting israel. we know hamas recruits from the families of people that israel has killed. you need, seems to me come to support palestinian leaders who offer a vision of ethical resistance, not what we saw october 7, and of have to palestinian freedom that also means safety for israeli jews.

marwan barghouti has spoken from jail about reconciliation, justice not vegan. if israel wanted legitimate posted leaders it could work with to build with the freedom, because only palestinian freedom in the long run will ensure israeli-jewish safety could create more legitimate palestinian leadership rather than mahmoud abbas who is viewed as a corrupt authoritarian subcontractor of israel at this point. juan: peter, i'm wondering our response to the way many pro-palestinian voices are being silenced in the united states. last week, for instance, columbia university suspended students for justice in palestine and jewish voices for peace as official student groups through the end of the term. your sense of what the impact of these kinds of policies that

pressures from a lot of university donors on their universities to silence these voices? >> i think when historians look back at the period of repression of free speech in the united states from world war i to the red scare of the mccarthy era of a post-9/11 era, tragically, we are writing another chapter now and it is being done in part because of the cowardice of university administration's and people who were sworn to defend the principle of free speech and academic freedom because of pressures come as you say, very often from donors. you don't have to agree with everything. i myself don't. but they have the right to make their voices heard. yes, do some of the things they say -- are they upsetting? yes. some of the things pro-israel groups are upsetting should some of the palestinian students. the point of university is that people are able to express their

views. for goodness sakes, one of the things we have hearing from the people on the right for years and years in their opposition to cancel culture is universities are supposed to make you uncomfortable. physical safety is one thing. intellectual discomfort is another. it is not the job of university presidents to protect students from hearing things because they were raised in pro-israel families they find deeply upsetting. the point is to allow people to have these conversations. it is deeply disturbing to me that in these places that are supposed to be bastions of free speech and academic freedom, we are seeing this kind of crumbling. juan: there was a report in "the new york times" today which in my view should have been on the front page but was buried in the back about an attack on al-shifa hospital on friday that initially the israeli defense forces claimed was era to

missiles of hamas, but "the new york times" has been able to document from some of the fragments of the missiles that they were actually antitank or artillery from the israeli antitank artillery and this really raises deep questions about the credibility of prior statements of israel about some of these attacks. wondering your response? >> look, i am not a military expert. i will say this, israel is saying hamas is embedding itself in civilian areas and using palestinian civilians as "human shields." there may be cases in which that is true, but we know this is the way guerrilla armies fight. viet cong when fighting the u.s. in vietnam did not just walk out into the field and say, "here we are." they embedded themselves in village.

this is the nature of fighting against an insurgency. it does not give you carte blanche to then basically go and kill vast numbers of civilians. the underlying lesson is you can't defeat an insurgency unless you address the core political grievances. this is the fundamental flaw behind israel's strategy. israel, it is so tragic to see it because it is been happening again and again for decades. israel went into southern lebanon in the early 1980's to depose the plo and kicked the plo out of lebanon. they ended up in an occupation that led to hezbollah. israel is not laying the foundations here for anything that will lead to mutual coexistence and freedom between the two societies. the civilians it kills arlington a groundwork for more and more destruction and death of both sides because israeli leaders are not willing to face the fundamental fact and american leaders are not forcing them to,

that the issue come even deeper than hamas, the issue is the lack of palestinian freedom. amy: you just wrote a piece in "the new york times, " "the new "there is a jewish hope for palestinian liberation. it must survive." if you can talk about apartheid, palestine, the agency, and the day after, as they say? >> although they did use armed resistance against apartheid, it tried hard to not go after civilians. and one of the reasons it was able to maintain this ethical line, which tragically hamas brutally crossed october 7, was it saw its strategy of ethical resistance was working. it saw it was resonating around the world. the anti-apartheid movement had grown in the late 1980's that

led to divestment. this created a virtuous cycle that made it easier to resist in an ethical way. the point i wanted to make in the piece is if we find what hamas did october 7 despicable, as i did, it is incumbent upon us to support palestinian who are fighting for their freedom in an ethical way. and when you shut that down, as the u.s. has done, shut down palestinian efforts at the u.n., efforts at the criminal court, you criminalize divestment, you are empowering forces like hamas that will resist in these immoral ways. we have to create paths for palestinians to fight for freedom ethically, and we have done the opposite. juan: i am wondering also, you tweeted on monday --

could you talk about the enormous battle that is occurring within the american jewish community where groups like jewish voice for peace are being arrested by the hundreds in cities across the country yet many of the major jewish institutions continue to line up behind israel? >> it says the imperative of human dignity is so great that it overwrites all rabbinic commands. it is tragic to me to see the institutional leaders of our jewish community have forgotten that in this moment when it needs to be remembered most. instead what you have our series of alibis that are -- they just don't make any sense. for instance, the idea that people in gaza deserve this because they voted for hamas in

2006. only 25% of people in gaza were even alive during that election. you set the precedent you can be killed because you vote for the wrong political party. i think that will have very bad consequences for many people all around the world. there is a generational struggle above all happening among american jews. the bulk of the people who were leading these protests, these jewish people who are protesting in the name of a cease-fire, our young. what gives me hope is there are people on both sides, hamas and the israeli government, who see this basically is a zero-sum struggle as tribe versus tribe and that will lead to greater and greater destruction and misery. what i think what we're saying among young american jews is this is not a struggle of jews against palestinians but jews and palestinians.

the principle is that there has to be safety and freedom and decent lives for palestinians if there's ever going to be safety and decency and unity for israel i jews as well. these people are bound together in a garment of destiny as martin luther king said and i think it is this multiracial, multireligious, multiethnic movement that in this incredibly dark time is the one thing i think we can cling to as a source of hope. amy: peter, what is your assessment of what president biden is doing and should be doing? >> president biden keeps saying he would like benjamin netanyahu to do something else and benjamin netanyahu keeps doing what he is doing because there is no stick attached to what president biden is saying. there are no consequences. now netanyahu is saying israel

is going to reoccupy gaza. biden knows this is a nightmare for israel and for the united states. it will be a quagmire come insurgency for as long as theeye can see. america has to use its considerable leverage to get the israeli government to do something come to show palestinians that it has -- there is a way for them to fight for the freedom that israel and the world will offer them. otherwise, we're going to have around after round after round of this hideous killing of the sites. amy: peter beinart, editor-at-large of jewish currents. professor at cuny journalism school. we will have a link to "there is a jewish hope for palestinian liberation. it must survive." coming up, we speak with rabbi alissa wise. back in 30 seconds. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. this week has been dubbed the jews for a ceasefire week of action by groups like if not now and jewish voice for peace. in chicago, hundreds of jews and allies blocked the entrance to the israeli consulate monday. >> cease fire means ending the

genocide. it means hostage release now. it means no more escalation to further war, violence, and death. it means creating a space for a true diplomatic solution that addresses the root causes of apartheid. amy: around the country, jews calling for a ceasefire also held sit-ins in the offices of congressmembers. in washington, d.c., monday, dozens of rabbis with rabbis for cease-fire were joined by spiritual leaders and hundreds of others for a morning prayer and reading of the torah in front of the u.s. capitol to call for a ceasefire in gaza. >> ♪ amy: after the special

shacharit service, rabbis and supporters marched to congressional offices where they met with elected officials. this is congressmember cori bush. >> we are rabbis, pastors, congressmembers, surviving family members, human beings and we are bound by our faith to demand a cease-fire now, to demand an end to the violence now. to demand that love and peace and justice and humanity reigns in his at the center of all of our work now, not tomorrow, not next week, not in a month, not in a year, no. cease-fire now1 cease-fire now! amy: for more, we are joined by rabbi alissa wise, an organizer with rabbis for a ceasefire and is the former co-executive director of the organization of jewish voice for peace, where she was also the founding

co-chair of jvp's rabbinical council. so we are seeing all of this opposition around the country. can you describe what happened in washington? we just saw cori bush. alexandria ocasio-cortez come ilhan omar, number of other commerce members were there for the prayer service. talk about the support you are getting. >> we are getting tremendous support from the signers of the cease-fire now resolution. on monday when we brought our message to d.c., we were buoyed by the embrace of these members of congress but actually the embrace went both ways. it was clear that our presence there in d.c. was a balm for their souls. there run through the mud for their voice of humidity and justice. likewise, we need support, too. we are rabbis for ceasefire. we are, as rabbis, responsible

to serve the jewish people spiritual, cultural, communal health. as part of that, our obligation as rabbis is to ensure that jewish people are part of the most profound and sacred obligation in jewish tradition, which is saving lives. that is the root of our call for a cease-fire. juan: i wondering if you can talk about your experience and work within the palestinian solidarity movement? and how do counterclaims that critique of israeli policies and the occupation as inherently anti-semitic? >> there has been an effort over the past number of years to conflate critique of israel with anti-semitism. this is a delivered strategy by those who seek to shield israel from accountability. the truth is, judaism is a beautiful, evolving religious civilization that has been part of the world for thousands of

years. zionism and the jewish state has a far shorter history. zionism is just over 125 years old. there is nothing inherent in critiquing this is really state --israeli state as anti-semitic. the thing we have to remember is states must be held accountable when they violate human rights. in the cynical strategy by legacy jewish institutions to shield israel from accountability through claims that israel is a jew or is the jew of doordash israel is a state -- israel is a state. we should not be able to cry out and states are committing horrific genocidal violence in the name of jewish people. when american jews around the world, rabbis and our congregants alike, are saying

not in our name, they are enacting their obligation as jewish people to protect life. to say every life is sacred and make no distinction between israeli life and palestinian lie. as rashida tlaib said, the cries of israeli and palestinian children don't sound different to her or to us. when you seek to stop critique of the nationstate that is committing such horrific genocidal violence with claims of anti-semitism, your lending credence to that violence. yesterday in ducey at the pro-israel rally, i was horrified to see the most powerful anti-semite in our country was given a headline spy. shame on them. shame on them for allowing

pastor john hagee, who believes that israel needs to be supported by christian zionists in order to hasten the second coming of the messiah at which point jews must either convert en masse or burn. shame on them for putting jewish lives at risk for playing russian roulette with jewish safety to protect israel and to shield them from account ability for this horrific violence. when the crowd started shouting "no cease-fire," i was humiliated. i was horrified. i was brought up in a tradition that teaches life is sacred. i prayed on monday with my fellow rabbis in front of the capitol that we are guided by an unending love. and that love is not finite. it extends to all people.

and it must. i think about my children. my jewish children that i am raising in the peril that these jewish organizations are putting them in when they cynically seek to conflate critique of israel a testament to some and create a stage for those who joyfully claim that jews must convert or be burned by the coming of the second messiah and that is the reason why they support israel. shame on them. amy: we were going to bring in a second guess to join you, rabbi alissa wise, and talk more about john hagee who once said god had "sent hitler to help jews reach the promised land." this is part of what he said at tuesday's march in washington. >> israel is the shining city on the hill.

israel says -- god says of israel, israel is my firstborn son. jerusalem is the city of god. jerusalem is the share line of it turn it because of jerusalem is the eternal capital of israel today and forever. amy: other high-profile speakers at tuesday's protest included senate majority leader chuck schumer and the new house speaker mike johnson, who has ties to the christian zionist movement. >> as prime minister netanyahu says so well, this is a fight between good and evil, between light and darkness, between civilization and barbarism. amy: for more, we in addition to rabbi alissa wise, we're joined by sarah poster, author -- sarah posner, the author of "unholy:

how white christian nationalists powered the trump presidency, and the devastating legacy they left behind." she's a msnbc columnist and her recent piece is titled "the dispiriting truth about why many evangelical christians support israel." if you can talk about that, sarah, and also specifically talk about john hagee addressing these tens of thousands of people. and then the house speaker. >> hagee has long walked this line between saving like he or pretending to a jewish audience, like he is really only interested in policy and what is happening in the presence. he walks this line but there when he goes into a church to preach about his theology, what he says is quite different. he did not say on tuesday that he expects, according to biblical prophecy, that one day jesus will return and fight a

very bloody battle, which is the rabbi said, will be jews converting or dying. he did not say that. he did not say he believes at the end of that jesus will rule the world from his throne on the temple mount. he did not say everything is playing out according to biblical prophecy. and so he has basically hoodwinked many jews into believing that he actually supports israel but what he really supports is his claim that israel is just a pond in this bible prophecy which at the end of which jesus will rule the world is basically a theocrat. juan: sarah posner, you noted a book what are the heart of christian zionism is not a lover israel but christian

nationalism." but what does israel and its staunchest offenders get from this alliance? >> well, what israelis and american jews who embrace hagee 's support get is a huge movement, much larger than the number of jewish americans, that has the ear of the republican party. and so it is much more than hagee'ss relation has jews capitol hill or in the white house when a republican is in the white house. it is more than that. it is so common among evangelicals even if they're not members of his group to share ideas about israel and bible office he and the return of jesus. so what they do is they bring this huge constituency to republicans, many of whom like

speaker johnson, believe all of this themselves. so they have morphed together this idea of supporting israel with being a good american christian. they believe god has commanded america as a country, not just them as americans, to "support israel." but in their minds, supporting israel involves supporting the occupation, supporting the israeli military no matter what it does. it does not mean supporting israel from the standpoint that some day perhaps israelis and palestinians can live in peace. that is not part of the equation. amy: i want to play another clip . in 2008, john mccain rejected pastor john hagee's endorsement after the pastor said god sent hitler to help jews get to israel. this is a clip of hagee's sermon. >> then god sent a hunter. a hunter is someone who comes with a gun and forces you.

hitler was a hunter. amy: sarah posner? >> this is part of hagee's overriding theology, that all of history can be sandwiched into his view of what the bible prophecy is about, the return of jesus. basically, what he is saying is -- what he is saying there and essentially saying in other much more recent statements than that is that god has punished or discipline the jews throughout history as part of his plan to get them to return to israel, which is a precondition of jesus's return. he is not trying to make it happen in a faster timetable. he is saying it is all going happen on god's timing. but what he is saying is any world event that is occurring now or has occurred in the past

is part of what has been prophesied in the bible and god is directing traffic here. and one of god's intentions is to get jews to return to israel because that is a precondition of jesus's return. he claims this is all laid out in the bible and it is just bible prophecy playing up. juan: i would like to bring rabbi alissa wise back to the conversation. your response to this full issue of the extreme christian right in the united states lighting up in support of israel for its own religious purposes? >> as sarah mentioned, the group exposed more members, 10 million they claim, which surpasses the total number of jews in the united states. the one thing that is critical is white christians need to be

mobilizing just as american jews are. american jews are getting arrested by the hundreds. christians who oppose this vision that christianity that hagee is proliferating need to likewise be stepping out. the influence of christian zionism on u.s. foreign policy is way understated. the jewish pro israel lobby is to work in comparison to what the christian zionist lobby is doing to promote u.s. foreign policy. but i think the most important piece here is that all of this is making jews less safe in the world. israel's action in gaza but not just now but for generations when palestinians are not free, jews are less safe in the world. that is the crux of the matter.

there is no way for jewish safety to be found when others are being oppressed. that is the simple truth of it. organizations that seek to distract from those of us that are trying to realize freedom, democracy, equal rights -- it is simple. it is equal rights for palestinians and israelis. those people claim we are anti-semitic when in fact their actions at aiding and abetting genocidal violence in gaza now but apartheid and occupation for generation, that is what is making jews less safe in the world. amy: i would to put this question to sarah posner, author of "unholy." you have written about mike johnson, the new house speaker, christian nationalists track record. can you talk about his views and

when you first encountered him in 2007 working on a story about the alliance defense funds ambition to get the separation of church and state? explain what that all this. >> the organization is a major christian right legal organization that sees itself as the christian catcher wake -- counterweight to the aclu. it is behind many supreme court cases. johnson was working for them at the time i interviewed him. he laid out for me the organizations ambition of the separation of church and state at the supreme court. and create a legal framework in which conservative christians could object to things like lgbtq rights in the name of

religious freedom. everything he said to me that in 2007, pretty much done and accomplished or well on its way to a calm pushing, undermining church/state separation, elevated religious freedom of conservative christians who oppose lgbtq and reproductive rights. and that is the framework and the ideology that he brings to congress. he also believes that god created civil governments and that the government should be run from christian nationalists would call a biblical worldview. his entire ideology and framework and way of looking at the world and way of looking at government in particular is very classic to the t the christian right -- christian nationalists, whatever you want to call it, believing there biblical worldview is what should

dictates off and policy in the united states. juan: i'm wondering, is this phenomena of the christian zionism largely centered in the united states? or have you seen similar movements in other advanced industrial countries, especially in europe as well? >> is worldwide will stop there are organizations that bring together christian zionists from different countries, in bring together christian zionists legislators from different countries. it is a worldwide movement but hagee is probably the world's foremost and most well-known christian zionist, in part because of his decades long preaching on the question but also because of his founding of his group in 2006.

amy: sarah posner, thank you for being with us, author of "unholy: how white christian nationalists powered the trump presidency, and the devastating legacy they left behind." and thank you to rabbi alissa wise of rabbis for a ceasefire and former co-executive director of jewish voice for peace.