11/16/23 11/16/23 [captioning made possible amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> one thing is clear, under international humanitarian law, health facilities, workers, ambulances, and patients must be safeguarded and protected against all acts of war. amy: the world health organization condemns israel's ongoing military raid of al-shifa, the largest hospital in gaza

as the united nations security council passes its first resolution calling for extended humanitarian pauses in gaza. we will look at the growing movement to hold israel and its backers, including the united states, legally accountable for war crimes. >> targeting civilians, they are doing war crimes, crimes against humanity for 2.2 million people. amy: we will speak to four international human rights attorneys in germany, france, the united states, and also raji sourani in gaza. if we can reach him. then we will be joined by the niece of benjamin netanyahu. she is calling for an immediate cease-fire in gaza. all that and more, coming up.

welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. dozens of palestinians have been killed in the 41st consecutive day of unrelenting attacks by israel's military on the gaza strip. overnight, israel's air force dropped leaflets over parts of the southern city of khan younis ordering people to leave their homes and shelters "for their own safety." many are being expelled for a second time after israel last month ordered more than a million palestinians to leave their homes in northern gaza. on wednesday, israeli authorities allowed the first shipment of fuel into the gaza strip since early october. the u.n.'s agency for palestinian refugees, unrwa, says just over 6000 gallons of fuel -- half a tanker truck's worth -- was allowed to cross from egypt. that's just 9% of what unrwa says is needed daily to sustain lifesaving activities.

israel is not allowing the fuel to be used in hospitals or to power water and sewage pumps. the u.n.'s human rights chief volker turk said outbreaks of disease and hunger in gaza now appear inevitable. his remarks came amid a worsening humanitarian catastrophe at gaza's largest hospital, the al-shifa medical complex, which is being occupied by israel's army. thousands of patients, medical workers, and displaced palestinians remain trapped inside the hospital and unable to leave. medical workers report israeli attacks have severely damaged al-shifa's main surgery building and about 200 people were reportedly blindfolded by israeli troops and led away to interrogations. the world health organization dr. tedros adhanom ghebreyesus says 26 out of gaza's 36 hospitals are now closed due to damage from israeli strikes or because they have run out of fuel. >> israel's military incursion into al-shifa hospital in gaza city is totally unacceptable.

hospitals are not battlegrounds. amy: israel's military has displayed images of weapons they claim work on inside the hospital but hamas has dismissed the photos as propaganda. on wednesday, videos were shown claiming hamas grab bags of rifles and grenades stashed inside the hospital. doctors have repeatedly denied such claims. president biden spoke to reporters from california wednesday evening after wrapping aipec summit in san francisco. pres. biden: you have a circumstance where the first war crimes being committed by hamas by having their headquarters, their military hidden under the hospital. that has happened. amy: president biden provided no evidence for the claim. his remarks came after a meeting with chinese president xi jinping at the summit.

the pair emerged with several agreements, including one to re-establish military communications and one curbing the chinese export of chemicals used for the production of fentanyl. on wednesday evening, xi jinping mingled with corporate america including elon musk and apple's tim cook at a lavish reception. hours after their meeting, biden ratcheted up tensions with china when he called president xi a dictator. pres. biden: [indiscernible] he is a guy who runs a country that is a communist country that's based on a form of government totally different than ours. the united nations security council has passed a resolution calling for urgent and extended humanitarian pauses and corridors throughout the gaza strip. the measure was approved by a 12-to-0 vote

after the united states, united kingdom, and russia abstained. four prior attempts by the council to pass resolutions calling for ceasefires or so-called humanitarian pauses were vetoed by the united states. daily protests against israel's attack on gaza continue. in washington, d.c., human rights activists gathered in front of the white house for a vigil, calling biden to back an immediate ceasefire. body bags were laid out on the ground to represent the civilians killed by the u.s.-backed israeli assault. later in the evening, activists blocked the entrance of the dnc headquarters before police violently removed them. lawmakers, including house minority leader hakeem jeffries, were gathered for a campaign event inside. this is eva borgwardt of the jewish peace group if not now. >> we are outside the democratic party headquarters. [indiscernible]

oppose this horrific war and call for a cease-fire now. [indiscernible] 80% of us want a cease-fire. [indiscernible] amy: the interview was interrupted when police resumed beating protesters and arresting them. in los angeles, over 1000 american jews and others held an emergency sit-in on one of hollywood's busiest streets to demand an immediate ceasefire. earlier this week, over 700 jewish activists and their allies shut down oakland federal building. hundreds of people were arrested in the action. at the prestigious national book awards ceremony last night, 20 of the 25 nominated authors

made a collective statement on stage calling for a ceasefire. this is the author aaliyah bilal. >> on behalf of the finalists, we oppose the ongoing bombardment of gaza and call for an humanitarian cease-fire to address the humanitarian needs the palestinian civilians, particularly children. we oppose anti-semitism and anti-palestinian sentiment and islamophobia equally. accepting the human dignity of all parties, knowing that further bloodshed does nothing to secure lasting peace. amy: one of the event's sponsors, zibby media, withdrew its support ahead of the prize ceremony after learning of the authors' plan to speak out against the war. meanwhile, black christian faith leaders

have been meeting with white house officials and members of the congressional black caucus to call for an end to the violence. last week, over 900 black faith leaders representing churches across the u.s. took out a full-page ad in "the new york times" to call for a ceasefire and a commitment to a meaningful peace process. 24 members of the house of representatives have signed a joint letter calling on president biden to press for a bilateral ceasefire in gaza on the basis of grave violations of children's rights. the letter was authored by democratic congressmembers alexandria ocasio-cortez of new york, mark pocan of wisconsin, and betty mccollum of minnesota. this comes as the powerful lobby group aipac, the american israel public affairs committee, steps up its support for primary challengers to lawmakers who've voiced support for a ceasefire. slate magazine reports aipac is expected to spend $100 million in democratic primaries backing opponents of house progressives.

the senate has approved a short-term funding bill to keep the government open until early 2024, sending the measure to president biden for his signature ahead of a midnight deadline friday to avert a government shutdown. its passage on wednesday came as far-right members of the house of representatives rebelled against republican speaker mike johnson to punish party leaders for crafting a compromise bill with democrats. the rebellion prompted speaker johnson to abruptly adjourn the house until after the thanksgiving holiday. in texas, seven more women who were denied medically necessary abortions joined a lawsuit filed by the center for reproductive rights against the state of texas. there are now 22 plaintiffs as the case heads to the texas supreme court later this month. the case seeks to clarify what constitutes a medical emergency allowing for an abortion and to permit doctors to make that call without fear of prosecution. one of the new plaintiffs is danielle mathisen, who is an ob/gyn who was forced to leave her home state just to get abortion care.

dr. mathisen said -- "texas lawmakers know nothing about medicine and they have created a full-blown public health crisis." in related news, a federal judge last week blocked an idaho law which made it a crime to help a minor cross state lines for an abortion without parental consent. the judge says the law, signed in april by republican governor brad little, violated the first amendment. this comes as the justice department backed two lawsuits challenging a similar law in alabama. and in ghana, african leaders issued a collective call for reparations for the historic enslavement of people of african descent. there prime minister was one of the speakers during the two day conference. >> the psychological trauma conflict by this practice continues to resonate across generations, affecting our effective consciousness. colonialism with his arbitrary borders

and economic exploitation further reinforce racial hierarchies and sow seeds of discourse that persist to this day. the scars of exploitation, dispossession, cultural erasure persists, manifesting themselves in challenges such as economic inequality, political instability, and cultural disintegration. amy: and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman joined by nermeen shaikh. nermeen: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: israel is rejecting a united nations security council call for urgent and extended humanitarian pauses in gaza as israel's bombardment of the besieged enclave continues for a 41st day. the u.n. security council passed the resolution by a vote of 12 to 0 with the united states, britain,

and russia abstaining. it is the first pass by the u.n. since israel began its bombardment. this comes as israel is continuing its military raid on al shifa, the largest hospital in gaza. israel has long claimed hamas placed a major command center underneath the hospital but israel has not shared any evidence of this so far. israel has displayed images of weapons they claim were found inside the hospital, but hamas has dismissed the photos as propaganda. on wednesday, the secretary general of the world health organization tedros adhanom ghebreyesus condemned the raid on al shifa. >> israel's village or incursion into al-shifa hospital in gaza city is totally an acceptable. hospitals are not battlegrounds. we are extremely worried for the safety of staff and patients.

protecting them is paramount. who has lost contact with health workers at al-shifa hospital. but one thing is clear, under international humanitarian law, health facilities, health workers, ambulances, and patients must be safeguarded and protected against all acts of war. not only that, they must be actively protected during military planning. amy: as israel rejects growing international calls for a cease-fire in gaza, there are mounting efforts to hold israel and its backers accountable for committing war crimes in gaza. in the united states, the center for constitutional rights has sued president biden,

accusing him of failing to prevent genocide. today ccr is seeking an emergency order to block biden as well as secretary of state antony blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin from providing further military funding, arms, and diplomatic support to israel. we are joined now by katherine gallagher, a senior attorney at the center for constitutional rights and one of the lawyers who brought the case. can you lay out the case for us? what are you demanding of the u.s. government, president biden? >> good morning. this case filed on monday was filed on behalf of two palestinian human rights organizations, defense for children international palestine, and the oldest palestinian human rights organization, which for the first time in its history is unable to do its work in gaza because of the conditions, as well as three palestinians in gaza and five palestinian-american families

who have members of their families killed, injured, and under direct threats right now in gaza. we filed this case against president biden, the secretary of state blinken and austin with two claims. one is that they have absolutely and completely failed in their duty under international law and u.s. law to take all measures possible to prevent the unfolding genocide against the palestinian population in gaza stop the united states is a signatory to the genocide convention. in recognition of the severity that this is the crime of crimes when it requires the specific intent to destroy a group, national or ethnic group in whole or in part, that is such a serious crime that states are obligated to take all measures within their control, all measures possible from the minute

they learn the possibility of genocide to stop that. we have not seen the united states do that despite its considerable influence over israel in the form of hundreds of billions of dollars in military aid that it has sent over the decades and billions in the past year. instead of using that influence to stop the killing, to stop the imposition of a total siege, denied all basic necessities to 2.2 million people in the enclosed space of gaza, they have rushed weapons, they have given unconditional political support -- up until yesterday when we saw a security council resolution not yet call for complete cease-fire, the united states has blocked all measures at the international level. so we are bringing the first claim for its failure to prevent the unfolding genocide.

in the second claim is that it is complicit in genocide. we lay out the case that israel is committing genocide at this moment. and we are able to do so, unfortunately, with no pleasure that we say this, at this really moment because of the very clear statements of intent by prime minister netanyahu, his minister of and other senior israeli officials about their intentions against the entire population in gaza. they have been clear that they see this, the people, the children of gaza as less than human, describing the population as monsters or human animals. and then taking away all of the basic necessities -- food, fuel, water, electricity. as you just played, we have heard what happened to the health care and medical facilities. bombed and invaded.

so in the face of all of this, the united states, when it has continued to send weapons, to send military advisors, to rush aid and get moral and political support to israel's actions, we say it is aiding and abetting genocide. nermeen: it seems there is some disagreement or dispute about whether what is taking place right now is genocide or ethnic cleansing even amongst scholars of genocide, so could you explain the distinction between the two and how it is that the people who you have had advising you on this case are convinced what is happening right now -- not what is to come -- what is unfolding right now is a genoce? >> to first clarify, ethnic cleansing is not a crime. ethnic cleansing is a description that is often used weather for crimes against humanity

such as extermination or forcible transfer and deportation. i want to be very clear, those in and of themselves are serious crimes. the international criminal court has jurisdiction over those crimes. frankly, it should be bringing arrest warrants for those crimes at this moment. so that is the first point. as to why we believe it is a genocide, the elements of genocide are that specific intent to destroy in whole or in part a group and then their underlying ask for genocide. we think three of the five underlying ask are present in this case -- killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and creating the conditions of life intended to destroy a population in whole or in part. so to unpack that a bit, what we have at the front end -- and usually specific intent

is something that needs to be determined and only able to be concluded after the fact. i worked with a tribunal on cases and i know how difficult even in that case was to make the conclusion that it was genocide. here we have those statements up front. what we have from the israeli officials is backing up those statements to impose a total siege and deny an entire population the basic necessities of life. as i said come access to food, fuel, electricity, which are necessary for hospitals to run, for people to be able to make their food, for water. we are seeing the start of starvation happening. of course all of that has happened under intent and continual military bombardment of a space that has a blockade and closed borders.

that blockade has been in place for 16 years. again, i would say there have been crimes against humanity being committed against the palestinian population in gaza at least throughout the entirety of that 16 year blockade. what we are seeing now is expression of specific intent to destroy that population. that, with the killings we have seen, already well over 11,000 people have lost their lives including over 4600 children, we see this is a campaign against the entire population. so for genocide, when you take that specific intent as expressed by senior israeli officials who have the capacity to carry out those threats and then actions -- and we are seeing they are carrying out exactly what they promise -- then you're able to make the case for genocide. i just want to emphasize again

that because of the seriousness of this crime of crimes, the duty to prevent kicks in as soon as a country is on notice of a serious risk of genocide. and the united states has been on notice since at least october 9 when the ministry of defense announced the total siege, which was then imposed, if not already on october 7, when prime minister netanyahu made threats to turn the entire gaza strip into rubble and to erase it off the earth. so that is why we feel that the duty to prevent if not already liability for complicity is present. and what we need -- we don't need to be quipping about legal definitions. [[no audio] the secretary of state and the secretary of defense to do what the vast majority of the world has been calling for for weeks. and that is stop this killing.

stop the siege on gaza. allow the 2.2 million people to live with dignity, to have their rights respected, and to not be subjected to this horror that we have all been witnessing and try to do whatever we can to make the most powerful country on earth have some compassion and comply with the law. amy: katherine gallagher, thank you for being with us, senior attorney at the center for constitutional rights and one of the lawyers who brought the case. coming up, we go to france and then italy to speak with human rights attorneys -- rather, germany and france come to hold israel and its backers, including the u.s., legally accountable and we will try to reach a human rights attorney in gaza. stay with us. ■■ [music break]

amy: "toyour" by rasha nahas and dina el-wedidi. palestinian singer who held concert in germany, donating all proceeds to doctors without borders. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. as israel rejects growing united nations security council calls for urgent and extended pauses in gaza, we continue to look at growing efforts to hold israel legally accountable for war crimes in gaza. joining us from berlin, germany, chantal meloni, and international criminal lawyer and an international criminal law professor at the university of milan. she's also senior legal advisor for international crimes accountability with the european center for constitutional and human rights of berlin. she also consults with the palestinian centre for human rights and represents victims in palestine before the international criminal court.

she's the author of the book "is there a court for gaza?" her new piece for justice in conflict is headlined "the war in gaza: international law is nothing if it is not applied." and what does in france is reed brody, longtime human rights attorney, war crimes prosecutor. he has been involved in several major war crimes cases, including against the former chadian dictator. he is author of "to catch a dictator: the pursuit and trial of hissène habré." he is the son of a hungarian holocaust survivor. his recent piece for the nation is headlined "gaza -- where is the law?" chantal meloni, let's begin with you. where is the law? we are trying to reach a man you and reed have worked closely with in gaza, raji sourani, who lived in northern gaza. his home was bombed, now forced to live in khan younis

and now parts of khan younis have been covered with leaflets saying those who are there must move further south. >> first of all, thank you very much for having me with you today. i think that what we have witnessed in the past weeks is literally the commission on each and every international crime that you may find listed under the statute of international criminal courts. i was listening carefully to what my colleague katherine gallagher said before. very important legal in the u.s. as she started to talk about the fact that it is under blockade since 16 years. i think we need to go back to 2007 and we need to go back to the first efforts that have been done already in 2009

to basically bring these violations and possible grave crimes to the jurisdiction of the criminal court. let's remember it was already in january 2009 the palestinian authority knocked on the door the international criminal court launching an article 15.3. acceptance of the jurisdiction of the icc in order to have these grave crimes that had already been committed during the operation cast lead investigated and possibly prosecuted in the hague. i want to remember the conclusions the u.n. fact-finding mission on the gaza strip come the so-called report, the famous south african judge, had reached in 2009 meaning the closure of the gaza strip

that have been posed continuously since 2007 was unlawful, collective punishment of the civilian population of gaza and the possible crime against humanity. the conclusions were in defense of the commission of the crime of persecution. a very grave crime against humanity. exactly because there was disproportionate, collective punishment on an entire population -- 2 million people of gaza -- with the declared purpose by the israeli authorities to try to break their support to hamas and therefore diminish, basically, there possibility, apparently, to commit anything that could be harmful for israel. and already at that time, the fact-finding mission concluded

that deprived palestinians of their basic needs with housing, water, as well as their freedom of movement amounted to collective punishment and possible crime against humanity. so what we have seen after that is a very long denial of justice. while we are talking, it is 14 years later. we are still in a phase where we don't see any concrete steps in the hague come at the icc. the investigation is formally open since 2021 but we have not seen any warrant of arrest nor any concrete action. nermeen: could you talk more about this issue of what

--israel's claim they will take actions to make sure hamas does not pose a threat to israel in any form? i want to read a statement because what we hear again and again in light of hamas's attack october 7, is israel has the right to self-defense. i just want to read a statement that the u.n. special rapporteur recently made. she says that israel cannot "claim the right of self-defense against a threat that emanates from the territory that it occupies, from a territory that is kept under belligerent occupation." so if you could explain that and what the distinction is between two things, the fact it is a territory that is occupied by israel and second that hamas is not a state,

it is a nonstate actor that is considered by israel, the u.s., u.k. to be a terrorist organization? so what law applies in that case? >> yes, exactly. very important to understand what is the legal framework that applies to this. because gaza is still part of the occupied palestinian territory and israel, regardless of the disengagement -- so the occupation changed its form in the gaza strip since 2006 but did not change substance, meaning israel is still exercising effective control on the gaza strip and its entire population by different means, not anymore with boots on the ground but rather through controlling its borders, its aerial space, the sea, and also the civilian life.

you have to remember even the civilian registries in gaza is still basically kept by the israeli authorities. and no one gets in and out of gaza, not even the u.n., international experts comes into gaza if israel does not allow this from happening. this is why not the palestinians but also international bodies, the icrc, the u.n., have considered and those are the international criminal court's that gaza is still occupied territory. this means that israel bears a very specific duty and responsibility with regard to gaza come not only they should not harm them, they should actually protect them. so what we are witnessing in these weeks,

what we have witnessed in particular since 2007 on, a violation -- a grave violation of international humanitarian law also taking into account the very strong duty that is placed on israel as occupying power. with regard to the specific question we are making, you are asking me about whether israel can rely or not on self-defense with regard to gaza and with regard to hamas, not being a state but armed group but considered to be a terrorist group. so i don't think honestly this is the most important legal point to be disentangled. it is a very complex legal point but it is only relevant if we want to discuss whether israel's reaction to the grave crimes

committed by hamas october 7 is acts of aggression or not. the point is regardless of what we think in this regard -- and i personally think the u.n. special rapporteur is arguing regardless of whether or not we agree with her and other scholars on this point, the issue is that the response -- so what israel is doing after october 7 in gaza is in grave violation of international humanitarian law meaning the rules that regulate war, the armed conflict. so for me this is the most important point to make regardless of the legitimacy or not of the intervention. we are witnessing very grave crimes that can be analyzed

under the lenses of war crimes, crimes against community, or as we heard from the ccr, genocide. nermeen: reed brody, i would like to bring into the conversation. he wrote this piece for the nation called "gaza -- where is the law?" if you could lay out the argument you make in that piece and the background that you give about the role in particular of the international criminal court in the past in prosecuting or not prosecuting crimes that israel was accused of? >> sure. as chantal meloni was saying come every attempt by palestinians, by raji and others, to use the international criminal court and other institutions, international justice, to hold israeli officials legally accountable

has been sidelined or delegitimized. chantal has said, the icc subjected the palestinian complaints to this obstacle course over 15 years. to the point that in all of that time, there has been no charges have ever been brought. and this includes things -- we are talking about the decades of israeli occupation, the collective punishment, the apartheid, the war crimes -- the illegal settlements. settlements are illegal under international law, to bring your people into an occupied territory. they have been given the go slow treatment. first it was the question of whether they were a state first prosecutor spent three years looking at it and kicked the ball down the road. the second prosecutor spent five years

conducting a preliminary examination before assuring that there were grounds believe that both israel and palestinians had committed crimes, including the settlements, including war crimes. and then she left it to the current prosecutor kareem khan. when -- compare this to russia. so 15 years i've no action. you compare this to the russian invasion of ukraine. right after the russian invasion was war crimes started to mount, the international criminal court and most of the western justice systems did what they were supposed to do most of immediately kareem khan went to ukraine, raised an enormous amount of money for the icc's investigation. already issued an arrest warrant against vladimir putin

for the transfer of ukrainian children. compare that than to palestine where none of this has happened. now we did see and i think this is important last week the prosecutor khan who has been criticized for not doing anything, for not moving, went finally to the rafah crossing. he followed up with a very powerful speech from cairo in which he spoke about the crimes or spoke about the allegations on both sides. he spoke very bluntly in -- to the israeli authorities. he reminded them the conduct of the conflict has to respect the laws of war, the distinction between civilian population and military objects.

proportionality, precaution. i think we could talk about these are not being honored. it was very clear to israel that mosques, churches, that houses, that hospitals have a protected status and that it is the burden on, as he put it, those who fired the gun or the rocket or the missile to show they have lost the protected status. will this be followed up by action for the first time? many people appointed out the fact there was no accountability for the last decade of occupation and crimes related to the occupation, has created a sense of impunity. are we going to finally deal with that sense of impunity?

america on wednesday, israel's deputy u.n. ambassador claimed israel always adheres to international law. this is what he said. >> hamas is solely responsibility for the humanitarian situation in gaza. israel does not need a resolution to remind us to adhere to international law. israel always adheres to international law. amy: so that is israel's deputy u.n. ambassador. if you could respond to that and the investigation of hamas for war crimes? >> the core principles, everyone should know regarding the laws of war is the protection of civilians. military operations cannot be directed at civilians. that is expressed through the principle of distinction.

you have to make a distinction. and like in the hospital case. even where you say that there is a military objective there, leaders still have to act with proportionality. they cannot just go and attack civilians in a way that is disproportionate. one can argue about what disproportionate means. expected to cause incidental loss of life. that is excessive in relation to the military advantage dissipated. it is very hard to see as we look at this conflict the 10,000 people that have been killed, 4600 children,

how these things are considered proportionate. i think israel has a heavy burden to bear to show in any way that these actions fit within the laws of the war. you brought up hamas's crimes. i think we all believe that hamas on october 7 committed very serious war crimes, probably crimes against humanity. just as the decades of crimes under israeli occupation do not justify hamas committing crimes against civilians, committing more crimes, those crimes by hamas cannot in any way justify further war crimes and the actions undertaken by the israeli forces today. amy: you are the son of a holocaust survivor,

hungarian forced laborer. can you talk about what this means to you? you're in france, live in barcelona, spain. the issue of increased anti-semitism and that also the equation of the criticizing of the israeli state with anti-semitism? >> those are a lot of questions to unpack. i was with chantal in germany last week where it is very, very difficult to criticize the conduct of israel, where the line is very thin. as someone who spent half my life in europe, i'm also aware of how prevalent anti-semitism is and how much and how careful we have to be not to allow criticisms of israel to spillover into anti-semitism and to be ruthless when we hear anti-semitism.

i've come to my physicians as an international lawyer come as a jew, as the son of a holocaust survivor. i don't think these things can be conducted in my name, certainly. obviously in america and around the world, there are many jews who stood up and talked about "not in our name." europe -- in spain where i live, there are a lot fewer, and it is quite a big deal, but next week there is a rally in paris by jews who are against what israel is doing. i think more and more -- this is a question of humanity. one holocaust does not justify another. what happened to my father's generation, to my father,

to members of my family, was a genocide. but just like war crimes to justify other war crimes, there is a symmetry, is a symmetrism between what happened with the jews and what is happening today. i don't think we can invoke the holocaust, we can invoke what happened to our parents to allow israel to commit war crimes today. nermeen: we just have one minute but if you could say whether the fact that hamas has taken over 200 hostages, 240 israeli hostages into gaza, what effect that has, what impact whether there is any allowance or what international law says can be done in the event of a hostage taking on this scale in terms of the return of the hostages?

>> if i understand your question correctly, what hamas did with regard to the hostagetaking from israel, israeli civilians, can amount to war crimes is a violation of the rules of international humanitarian law. and it follows potentially under the jurisdiction -- [no audio] i think we will see an acceleration in the investigation for the international criminal -- so dramatic. i'm sure the prosecutor will analyze 360 degrees the responsibilities, meaning both the israeli authorities and the palestinian armed group. but what we urgently need is accountability and to break the circle of impunity, which caused this violence and had already been for too long denounced in this way

as one of the triggers of the violence and brutality that we are witnessing today. amy: chantal meloni, for being with us, international criminal lawyer and represents victims and palestine before the international criminal court. and reed brody, human rights attorney and war crimes executor, son of a hungarian holocaust survivor. when we come back, we will be joined by the niece of prime minister netanyahu. she is calling for an immediate cease-fire in gaza. ■■ [music break] amy: "che guevera"

by palestinian singer amal murkus. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. we spend the rest of the hour with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu's niece, a providence college professor and middle east expert. this month she was one of the signatories to a letter from jewish and israeli residents of rhode island that asks the state federal delegation to support cease-fire in gaza. in march, ruth ben-artzi spoke out about distancing herself from netanyahu. when asked why she chose to speak out, she said --

"i am ashamed, sad, angry. ashamed by relatives who have no shame, there are no position of power that promotes violence and fascism. these are not the jewish values i absorbed unto which i feel connected. israel could remain a country in which jews find a safe haven in partnership with all the population groups within the state's borders." she joins us now. providence college political science professor and middle east expert. she is an israeli and u.s. citizen. we welcome you to democracy now! thank you for being with us. your voice has so much power because you are the prime minister's niece. can you speak directly to him, to the people of palestine and israel, and the world about what you want to see happen right now, ruth ben-artzi? >> first of all, i speak as an israeli citizen,

an american citizen, as a person who is observing everything that is happening with my experience having grown up in israel and also as a political scientist who studies and researches these issues for many, many years now. from all of those perspectives, i come to this realization war came to this decision that i think the only way any solution can ever be achieved -- the continued violence that begets violence that begets violence is only going to bring us further away from a solution to the conflict. it is important to remember we have been hearing from experts there is no military solution for the conflict.

there's no military solution to the conflict. there's no military way to eradicate hamas as well. the more violence that is occurring [indiscernible] it only moves us further away from finding the solution. it is clear this day the war is over is a dent the political solution is going to have to be implemented. the occupation in the west bank, [indiscernible] we traditionally call status quo. the population is changing. the demographics are changing.

the infrastructure is changing. that change continues. it is never going to work. it has no long-term prospects. [indiscernible] those caught in the crossfire, the victims of this war grow every single minute. in addition to the humanitarian concerns and the experts you had on the show before me, the legal concerns, in addition to that, that brings us further away from being able to implement the kinds of policies we need to implement.

nermeen: professor, like many you have expressed concern about the well-being of the hostages who are in gaza still, about 240 of them. if you could talk about how you think a cease-fire might make it possible for their safe return? it was just reported that israel and hamas appear close to an agreement where 50 israeli women and children would be released in return for 50 palestinian women and children prisoners being free. if you could talk about the impact a cease-fire may have on the release of the israeli civilian hostages in gaza. >> we have a tradition which means the release of the hostages comes first at all cost.

and that is to save lives. the bombing of -- they are in gaza. they are in danger, too. there's going to be a day -- [indiscernible] right now the focus has to be the release of those hostages. the bombing is clearly not very specifically targeted and is putting those hostages in harm's way, only exacerbating the situation -- i think -- others who have signed the letter to demand immediate cease-fire.

[indiscernible] what is in front of my mind, the hostages. we buried today an activist murdered october 7 who spent decades in activism trying to help bring a solution to the israeli-palestinian conflict. continuing that tradition, -- working toward that solution to find a peaceful solution and bring the hostages back. we have to have those negotiations. the negotiations have to happen with the terrorist group holding those hostages. there is no other solution for this.

get the hostages out. then we can continue the political work of rehabilitating gaza, removing hamas from power, and finding a political solution -- which is really the only way the 7 million jews and 7 million palestinians will ever be able to find peace. amy: we just have 30 seconds, but as the niece of the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, have the two senators from rhode island spoken to you? >> as rhode islanders, we speak to our delegation all the time. the group that signed this letter and sent this letter spoke to our delegation. we are in contact with them. we have various connections in our small state.

i think have been listening to the different voices. amy: we have to leave it there. we thank you so much, professor ruth ben-artzi, the daughter of prime minister benjamin netanyahu. [captioning made possible