11/22/23 11/22/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> we hope this cease-fire will be good. we have been waiting for the cease fire. we pray for peace for all people so we can be done with all of these challenges we are facing. amy: is the death toll in gaza tops 14,000, israel and hamas

have agreed to temporary 40 h -- 40 truce. as part of the deal, hamas will release 50 hostages and israel will release 150 palestinian women and children held in israeli jails. we will speak to a former israeli peace negotiator. then israel is intensifying it -- that as israel is intensifying its crackdown on dissent, we will speak to an israeli history professor who was jailed for four days and held in solitary confinement after criticizing the killing of innocent palestinian civilians. then gaza in ruins. we will speak to two satellite image researchers. >> over the last week we saw a market increase in damage, especially north gaza. all that and more, coming up.

welcome to democracy now!!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. israel and hamas have agreed to a four-day pause in fighting and to exchange 50 hostages held in gaza for 150 palestinians in israeli prisons. the short-term truce will also allow for the entry of humanitarian aid into gaza. the deal was mediated by qatar, egypt, and the united states. the temporary truce. prime minister benjamin netanyahu said it does not mean israel will end its war on gaza as it continued its deadly attacks on the besieged territory, including in khan younis in southern gaza. this man lost 15 members of his family, including children, in an israeli airstrike earlier today in a residential area of khan younis.

>> the cease-fire deal will not bring the safety from israelis. if there's no real cease-fire that ends this, it is not worthy. >> aren't you optimistic? >> no, i am afraid it will be more fierce than before. amy: we'll have more on the truce deal after headlines. separately, an israeli drone strike killed at least five palestinians in the tulkarm camp in the occupied west bank. palestinian officials say israeli forces also raided the emergency department of the thabet thabet hospital in tulkarm. this comes as israel's assault on gaza's health system continue. at least 100 palestinians were killed overnight and this morning in attacks around hospitals and refugee camps. israeli forces have encircled the indonesian hospital in the north of the gaza strip and have ordered staff to evacuate. there are still hundreds of

patients inside, including 50 in critical condition. the head of the indonesian hospital sarbini abdul murad wrote an open letter to president biden urging him to listen to his conscience and respect international norms. murad writes -- "you have destroyed the international rules of the game, insulted the authority of the u.n., torn apart the sense of justice, and hurt human values, and tarnished the face of human civilization." israeli shelling has killed at least 12 people in the indonesian hospital. the world health organization says it is struggling to evacuate hospitals in the north. >> over 30% of the deaths and injuries are in the south of gaza in the so-called safe area. over 30% of the deaths. then came the bombing and attacks of the hospitals. and now no more hospitals are functioning in the north. collects from msf have been reporting they were attacked.

taking away health care people is taking away last resort, taking away the last piece of humanity. that is what is happening right now. amy: the w.h.o. announced one of the agency's staff had been killed. she was among 50 people killed in the strike including her six-month-old baby, her husband, and two brothers. meanwhile, doctors without borders said two of their doctors were killed in an israeli strike on the al awda hospital. doctors mahmoud abu nujaila and ahmad al sahar were killed alongside their colleague dr. ziad al-tatari. doctors without borders said it has repeatedly told israel it is a functioning hospital and shared its gps coordinates with israeli authorities one day before the deadly attack. there are still some 200

patients at al awda hospital. the palestinian poet and author mosab abu toha has been released following his abduction by israeli soldiers while trying to leave the gaza strip with his family. abu toha had been heading to the southern rafah border crossing when he was seized by israeli soldiers at a checkpoint. he is said to be receiving medical treatment after being reportedly beaten by israeli soldiers. leaders at a virtual summit of brics nations called tuesday for a "immediate, durable and sustained humanitarian truce" in gaza and the release of all captive civilians. the original brics countries -- brazil, russia, india, china and south africa -- were joined by the coalition's newest members at tuesday's high-level meeting -- egypt, ethiopia, argentina, saudi arabia, the uae, and iran. in contrast to the u.s. and many european nations, the majority

of brics countries, including china and russia, have called for a ceasefire. the summit's host, south african president cyril ramaphosa, forcefully condemned israel's assault on gaza. >> the collective punishment of palestinian civilians through the unlawful use of force by israel is a war crime. the deliberate denial of medicine, fuel, food, and water to the residents of gaza is tantamount to genocide. amy: south africa's parliament voted tuesday to suspend diplomatic ties with israel and close its embassy in pretoria until a ceasefire is reached. such actions, however, will ultimately be up to president ramaphosa. california congressmember ro khanna has become the 43rd democratic lawmaker to call for a ceasefire. activists and khanna's constituents have been

pressuring the powerful lawmaker to sign onto a house ceasefire resolution, including occupying his office last month. in related news, the detroit city council on tuesday became the largest u.s. city to pass a resolution calling for a ceasefire. polls show some two-thirds of americans support a ceasefire. in missouri, protesters rallied at the gates of a boeing manufacturing plant near st. louis tuesday demanding an end to the use of u.s.-made weapons in the killing of palestinian civilians in gaza. protesters say the factory produces joint direct attack munitions and gbu-39 small diameter bombs supplied to israel's air force. in hollywood, the united talent agency has stopped representing oscar winner susan sarandon after she spoke at a rally in new york city last week where she called for a ceasefire in gaza. she has been active at antiwar protests to demand the protection palestinian lives.

>> you don't have to be palestinian to stand for the palestinian people. [cheers] you do not have to be palestinian to understand the slaughter of almost 5000 children is unacceptable and a war crime. amy: the world food programme warns it will run out of food aid for at least 1.4 million people in chad by january due to a shortage of funds. this includes aid for hundreds of thousands of newly arrived refugees fleeing conflict in sudan, most of them escaping ethnic violence and mass killings in the west darfur region. the u.n. says it needs at least for its aid efforts in chad but $185 million that lack of international interest has led to severe under-funding. starting in december, the world food programme is also suspending relief to internally displaced people and refugees from nigeria, central african

republic, and cameroon. in australia, former military lawyer and whistleblower david mcbride has pleaded guilty to unlawfully sharing classified material. the australian government accused mcbride of jeopardizing national security by sharing information on australian war crimes in afghanistan with two journalists from abc, the australian broadcasting corporation, who published the revelations in the afghan files reports. the military claimed public interest immunity in the case, allowing the government to withhold key information and dashing mcbride's chances of benefiting from whistleblower protections. mcbride spoke to supporters outside the courthouse. >> i stand tall and i believe i did my duty. [applause] amy: press freedom groups warned the case will have a chilling effect. in related news, a group of 16 bipartisan u.s. congressmembers sent a letter to president biden earlier this month asking him to

drop efforts to extradite imprisoned wikileaks founder julian assange from the u.k. and to "not pursue an unnecessary prosecution that risks criminalizing common journalistic practices." major brands including apple, disney, and warner brothers have suspended buying ads on the social media site x, formerly known as twitter, after billionaire owner elon musk tweeted his support for a user's racist comments attacking jewish people and promoting the far-right anti-immigrant conspiracy theory known as the great replacement. it's the same white supremacist theory espoused by the gunman who attacked pittsburgh's tree of life synagogue in 2018, killing 11 people. this week elon musk sued the watchdog organization media matters which first reported on his comments. media matter rejected it as a frivolous attempt to silence it. media matters also reports x has been placing ads for major

brands next to content that touts adolf hitler and the nazi party. the billionaire head of the world's largest cryptocurrency exchange binance has pleaded guilty to charges of money laundering. under terms of a plea agreement, changpeng zhao will be fined $50 million and barred from involvement in binance for three years. he faces up to 18 months in prison under federal sentencing guidelines, though federal prosecutors could ask for a longer term. meanwhile, binance pleaded guilty to violating the bank secrecy act, failing to register as a money-transfer business, and violating u.s. sanctions laws. on tuesday, treasury secretary janet yellen announced the company would pay a $4.3 billion fine. >> it deliberately undermines its own sanctions monitoring controls and it failed to report suspicious transactions. this meant binance was allowing illicit actors to transact freely, supporting activities

from child sexual abuse to illegal narcotics to terrorism across more than 100,000 transactions. amy: holly maguigan, a trailblazing legal advocate for survivors of domestic violence and long-time nyu law professor, has passed away. maguigan is credited with transforming the way the criminal justice system treats survivors of intimate partner violence who had to use self-defense to save their own lives. she served on the boards of directors for the national clearinghouse for the defense of battered women among others. in 2014, she won the society of american law teachers "great teacher award." jamil dakwar, director of the aclu's human rights program, was one of her many students and paid tribute to her as "a beloved teacher and brilliant lawyer who relentlessly fought for justice." and in detroit, renowned civil

rights attorney and human rights defender bill goodman has died. he was 83. some of goodman's most influential work ce amduring his time as legal director of the center for constitutional rights. under his leadership, the center filed its first habeas litigation on behalf of guantanamo prisoners, leading to multiple supreme court victories. goodman took on the nypd's racist stop-and-frisk policy and led a class action lawsuit of hundreds of muslim men who were rounded up and detained after 9/11. bill goodman was also celebrated for championing palestinian rights. after leaving new york, goodman returned to his hometown of detroit where he continued to fight police violence and other social justice issues until his death. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by democracy now!'s juan gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world.

amy: israel is continuing to attack gaza ahead of the start of a four-day pause in the fighting. al jazeera reports at least 100 palestinians were killed overnight in gaza. the death toll from israel's 47-day bombardment has now topped 14,000. as part of the truce deal, hamas has agreed to initially release 50 hostages in exchange for the release of 150 palestinian women and children held in israeli prisons. the four-day pause could be extended if hamas continues to release hostages. hamas and other militant groups in gaza are believed to be holding about 240 hostages. there were seized during the october 7 attack on israel. according to the palestinian group addameer, israel is now holding about 7000 palestinian political prisoners. that's up from 5000 before october 7.

more than 2000 of the jailed palestinians are being held indefinitely without charge. palestinian news outlets have reported six palestinians who were being detained without charge have died in recent weeks. in gaza, some residents welcomed the news of a four-day pause to the israeli bombing. >> we hope the cease-fire will be good. we have been waiting for the cease-fire. we pray for peace for all people so we can be done with all of these challenges we are facing. we have been fleeing from one place to another. we hope the cease-fire will be good and that we will see positive solutions from this. we pray for a cease-fire. we pray for people to live in peace so they can go back to their jobs and houses, to have stability. in could israel, families of the hostages called on the israeli government to secure the release everyone sees on this is nir october 7. shani, whose 16-year-old son is being held.

>> any person will be released is good, is important. eventually we need them all. we need to establish this release. the best thing is everyone will be released at the same time, but as i said, some can stay in that situation for a bit longer and some will not be able to hold on. so we have to start doing the deals and get them back to us. amy: we are joined now by daniel levy, the president of the u.s.-middle east project. he served as an israeli peace negotiator under prime ministers ehud barak and yitzhak rabin. his piece for "the new york times" earlier this month was headlined "the road back from hell." we're going to get to that in a

moment, daniel. thank you for joining us. but we want to start off with this deal that has been reached. we know a good deal about the horrific story of the hostages who are being held, that hamas is holding or other groups in gaza, about 240 of them. we know less about the palestinian prisoners, the women and children. it will be three to one. they will release 150 palestinian prisoners for 50 hostages. can you tell us about these people who are in prison? we don't know specifically, though the israeli government is releasing their names. but who is held in palestinian jails? who are these women and children? >> i think, amy, first of all, let's acknowledge this is a rare glimmer of hope. it will be very good to see those israelis coming home.

so important to have those four or five days without bombardment , without civilian losses in gaza. it would be horrendous if we then returned to where we have been these past terrible days, to see those women and children -- i can't speak to the names. we don't know st-- [indiscernible] the organization was deemed criminal, terrorist by the israelis. israel has different ways of trying and convicting or not

convicting palestinians. the number of children who end up in israeli prisons -- women are part of the struggle. [indiscernible] israel has a system of magistrate of detention where it will hold people without trial. people can be held indefinitely. that is the way in which they are held as we heard, more than 2000 have been arrested in the west bank since the start -- since october 7. so we're going to get some of those --

we will have exchanges. amy: daniel, we're going to go to break and come back to you and try to call you on the phone to get a better sound from your system. daniel levy is the president of the u.s.-middle east project and and former peace negotiator with the palestinians at taba under prime minister ehud barak and at oslo b under prime minister yitzhak rabin. we will be linking with him in a moment. ♪ [music break]

amy: sung at many of the jewish resistance protests calling for cease-fire now. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. our guest is daniel levy, president of the u.s.-middle east project. former peace negotiator with the palestinians. juan: daniel, i wanted to ask you about just announced in the last few hours this truce. in an interview recently, you said "my sense is the israeli's are always trying to get another day and another day and third day of operations before agreeing to a deal." we have heard now of the potential truce for two weeks and each day we kept hearing that was imminent, but what has israel been able to do during that time?

>> well, unfortunately, the answer is an awful lot of additional damage, civilian loss, children being killed. we have seen the devastation and hospitals in gaza. now, i think the israeli government each day was probably hoping it would buy a lottery ticket, capture one of the hamas leaders, killed one of the hamas leaders -- and this is crucial -- why have they held out so long? i think prime minister netanyahu and the leadership understood once you go into this new phase where you have agreed to a prisoner release, a few things happen, new dynamics come into play. on the israeli side, internally, people see you can get people

out through a negotiated deal. i think netanyahu is worried that will increase the pressure on him to do further deals, to make these arrangements whereby you end the military assault and he doesn't want that because they have not achieved their military objectives -- which are not able to be achieved, by the way. other things will happen as a consequence. for instance, we may see more western media using this lull to show us more of the devastation inside gaza. in fact, there is a report in politico that says some of the administration are worried what these images may do to public opinion even more. so there israel concerned i think on the israeli side that the sets in motion the war they want to continue. the families have done so much of the heavy lifting inside israel in change in the public

debate and getting us to this point. i don't think so much should be placed on their shoulders. i think belatedly, now is the time for the u.s. administration and others to stand up and de sist. it would be so cruel after this we see a return of the kinds of assaults and bombings and losses on the palestinian side in gaza. unfortunately, in the statement that put out recognizing the initial deal, heather president biden or secretary blinken did that and failed to talk about palestinian lives with empathy and to record -- such a sad thing. juan: you said you thought the goals of netanyahu are unachievable. why is that? >> he has talked and talked about the elimination of hamas.

that is not militarily achievable objective in my mind. hamas is a movement that has withstood this pressure, so i think there will still be maybe somewhat residual but a hamas -- hamas is an idea. i don't want to lionize that but i think we have to recognize that when people are met with assistant of structural violence, they resist. that resistance may be in the form of other armed groups -- by the way, that may be in the form of calling for boycotts, divestments, and sanctions against israel or pursuing legal claims in international courts and elsewhere. if you close all of those avenues, then you're much more likely to get the kind of outburst of violence which were

verbal on october 7, that groups like hamas will still be there as long as the occupation in the system of denial is in place. there is no military solution. amy: we reported yesterday a well-known writer and poet who was taken for four days, apparently -- he was taken with about 200 people. they're such an outcry in the u.s. no one knew what had happened to him. the israeli forces taking him at a checkpoint. he was released. but when you have examples like that -- i mean, the other 199 or however many were taken, do they become part of the palestinian political prisoners who then israel can use to release an exchange for hamas prisoners, not to mention how many hundreds of palestinians have been arrested on the west bank in the

last few weeks? they have not been tried, have they? >> some have and some haven't. you have some being held under what is called administrative detention, which is basically detention without trial. my take away from that, amongst other things, is pressure works. so is pressure can be built to get one person out, can it be built to get more out? can it be built to end what is going on in gaza? you asked about the future prisoner releases. and that is why i think we need to understand the overwhelming likelihood, as terrible as this is, is at the end of this round of the agreement reached, netanyahu has committed himself to resuming the military -- in the statement, the first thing

he talked about was that we are getting our people home, it was his commitment i am going to continue this war. that is the first sentence. that is the intention. that is why there needs to be maximum pressure exerted to build on this because also, let's think about the dynamics and the geography in play. the palestinian population has been displaced from the north of gaza to the south. israel says it intends to move from north the south. you have more people in a smaller area. can anyone in good conscience make the claim that going forward there will be a reduction in palestinian civilian casualties, in dead children? if the administration continues to refuse to call for a cease-fire, it is complicit. now, those future agreements which i think are still the

offramp to getting a cease-fire will involve prisoner releases. the answer to your question, amy, just as we have seen women and children being released now and hopefully in the coming days , being released from is really prisons come in future there will be further deals and hamas is not going to drive a soft bargain. hamas has leverage by holding the israelis and intends to use that leverage. i imagine the release they demand from israeli prisons will be significant. there's a proper debate inside israel. the fact you have courageous families who are getting up in the parliament, shouting at the ministers, standing outside the ministry of defense, standing outside the prime minister's office, meeting with the leaders saying, save lives, don't end or lives. this will be the debate, whether

they prioritize the release of the israelis and therefore that means we're going to a cease-fire and see palestinians release or prioritize prosecuting their war. juan: in terms of the netanyahu government and the public opinion polls are showing netanyahu's popularity is at an all-time low even in the midst of this war, far less than president biden here in the united states. is it your sense that regardless of what happens that netanyahu's political career is coming to an end? >> from your lips, juan. it is a risky thing to speculate on because he is such a political survivor. but i do think this time around, the path to staying on in power for netanyahu is almost, almost

unimaginable. he is so unpopular, i think even some of the reservists who are fighting in gaza are chomping at the bit to finish so they can demonstrate outside his office to get him out. and here's the question. does the pause begin to reignite politics inside his room? two have to wait until the end war of the war in order for netanyahu to be replaced? there are open splits now, increasingly visible. one of the most hard right openly racist and worst factions voted against the deal. another intended to vote against the deal but pulled back at the last minute. we are likely to see some of the

next five days, a lot of it will be filled life affirming images inside the israeli media of israelis coming home, but a lot of it will be, what's next? the call is for netanyahu to be replaced. i think the are in a zone where that begins to come into view. but to be honest, the most important thing is to get the cease-fire and the politics can come when it comes. if we need to get rid of netanyahu to get the cease-fire, then of course that order switches. amy: daniel levy, they give are being with us president of the , u.s./middle east project and a former israeli peace negotiator with prime minister's ehud barak and at oslo b under prime minister yitzhak rabin. coming up, we speak with an israeli history teacher who was jailed for four days and held in solitary confinement after criticizing the killing of innocent palestinian civilians. back in 20 seconds.

♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we turn now to look at how the israeli government is cracking down on israelis who criticize israel's bombardment of gaza. we are joined now by meir baruchin, a history and civics teacher from jerusalem who was recently jailed for four days in solitary confinement after he posted a message on facebook about his opposition to the killing of innocent palestinian civilians, especially women and children. on november 9, israeli police ransacked his house and arrested him. they also seized his phone and two laptops. police interrogated him on suspicion of committing an act of treason and intending to disrupt public order. he was then jailed for four days

and labeled a high-risk detainee. baruchin has since been freed but he has lost his job as a teacher and is still facing charges. despite this, meir baruchin has refused to stay silent and joins us now from jerusalem. welcome to democracy now! it was hard for us to get in touch with you of the last few days because your electronic devices like your phone were taken. can you talk about exactly what happened to you? what did you post and how did the israeli police come to ransack your house? >> first of all, thank you for having me. when i got the first interrogation, the interrogators presented 14 posts. most of them before october 7. there were posts from four years ago, two years ago. only one or two were after

october 7. what i'm trying to do in my facebook posts is this, for most israelis, palestinians are really vague images. they have no names, no faces, no family, no hope, no plans. i am trying to give them names and faces, introduce them to israelis so more israelis would be able to see palestinians as human beings. so that is what i do in my facebook. the police did not like it. so they arrested me. juan: and when you were arrested , what was the substance of the interrogation against you during that time? how are you treated? >> on event for ninth -- on

november 9, i got a call from police to come over for interrogation on sedition. i called my lawyer and he said that in order to interrogate an israeli citizen for sedition, they need an approval from the general attorney was of the police did ask for approval but was rejected so they decided to interrogate me for intentions to commit an act of treason and disrupt public order. the minute i walked into the police station, they shackled my hands and legs and they showed me a warrant to search my half's -- house. five detectives ransacked the place. then i was taken back to the police station for the first interrogation that lasted four hours. after that, i was taken to the

jailhouse. like you said, i was categorized high-risk detainee, separated from everyone. i was not allowed to bring anything with me, a book or something. i spent four days. i exercised every hour and a half to two hours in order to not go crazy. sunday evening, november 12, they took me for a second interrogation. their technique was it was not really asking questions, it was more of -- when you install the answer inside the question, don't really let the other person choose his own answer. for example, they said something like as someone who justifies and legitimize the rates of hamas october 7, don't you think -- that was their technique. also in my second interrogation,

at a certain moment they said my facebook post so just like the protocols of the elders of zion. i am a history teacher, so i asked them, did you ever read the protocols of the elders of zion? there was no comment. i was taken back to the jailhouse and on november 13 i was released by the judge and still they kept me in the jailhouse for another 3.5 hours. juan: what has been the response of fellow teachers in israel and of the press to your arrest and detention? >> most of mainstream media embraced the statement of the police spokesman who accused me as justifying and legitimizing the rapes committed by hamas people on october 7. as for my colleagues, teachers, hundreds of them are telling me,

meir, i am fully behind you but i have children to support. meir, i am with you but i am paying a mortgage. meir, i am with you but my daughter is getting married. meir, i am with you but we just started to decorate the house. they are afraid to speak up. they are afraid to lose their jobs. they see very clearly that these days israelis citizens were showing the slightest sentiment for the people of gaza, opposing killing of innocent civilians, they are being political -- politically persecuted. they go through public shaming. they lose their jobs. they are being put in jail. so they are afraid. amy: last week, the israeli newspaper haaretz published an editorial headlined "arresting arabs and left-wingers: how

israel intends to crack down on domestic dissent over gaza war." in it, haaretz wrote about your case, saying -- "make no mistake: baruchin was used as a political tool to send a political message. the motive for his arrest was deterrence -- silencing any criticism or any hint of protest against israeli policy. baruchin paid a personal price." meir, if you can talk about the fact you were fired from your job -- you have four children, right? and how unusual is your arrest and been put in solitary confinement, both for israeli jews and palestinians? >> well, first i must admit that the fact i am jewish played a key role in my arrest. had i been palestinian, it was completely different. there would have been much more violence from the police officers and also in the

jailhouse by the wardens. i think it is a clear message for not only the teachers, but to all israeli citizens. one of the newspaper men called me a soldier in the service of terrorist propaganda. in those specific words. other journalists also embraced the police statement without getting my response or without even trying to challenge the police statement. amy: they took your phone and also your computer? >> yes. juan: have you gotten it back? >> no, not yet. my lawyer is working on it.

but the case is still not closed. i'm still facing charges. also the ministry of education suspended my license so i cannot go back and teach anywhere in the country. amy: what do you tell your kids? we just have 30 seconds. >> i kids are proud of me and that is the most important thing. amy: i what to thank you for being with us. meir baruchin is a history and civics high school teacher who was jailed for four days, held in solitary confinement after criticizing the killing of innocent palestinian civilians. his case is still open. he could still go to trial. he is speaking to us from jerusalem. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we end today's show looking at how israel's 47-day bombardment has left gaza in ruins.

satellite images show the israeli attack has left about half of all buildings in northern gaza damaged or destroyed since october 7. overall, researchers say at least 56,000 buildings in gaza have been damaged. we are joined now by two researchers who lead the decentralized damage mapping group, a network of satellite image scientists using remote sensing to analyze and map the damage and destruction in the gaza strip. corey scher is a doctoral researcher at the cuny graduate center in new york and jamon van den hoek is an associate professor of geography at oregon state university and the lead of the conflict ecology lab. jamon, explain what you found in these charts, these images you have of gaza, where it stands today, where it stood a month ago.

>> thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. we have been charting damage using satellite radar technology since the start of the war across the entire gaza strip every five to six days. we update our damage maps, share them with journalists and humanitarian actors, and we track what we identify as likely damage across the gaza strip. what we have seen is steady and fast expansion of damage across especially northern gaza -- just last week, leading up to saturday, we are approaching 50% of buildings sing likely damage. they're still much less damage in southern gaza, route 5, for example, somewhere between 5% and a percent. as your other guests were saying, we expect that to increase as the work continues. juan: have you ever seen the

scale of damage and destruction as such a rapid pace in any conflict in other parts of the world? >> it is difficult to say. we have not yet use the same approach to measure say the rate of damage across ukrainian cities were syrian cities but i think we have all been surprised at the speed of this. part of that is just how compact guys it is. if you look at the rate of progress of damage on our maps, it is filling up the map of gaza , especially in the north. that is consistently surprising to us. juan: i would like to bring corey scher into the conversation. how does open access to these satellite images help understand and compare the impact of conflict? >> thank you for the question. open data helps us to maintain a

consistent delivery of damage assessments, whereas it has been a big issue for journalists and humanitarian organizations acquiring high-resolution satellite data from private companies. we don't face those issues because our work focuses on leveraging science and open data to make sure we can provide consistency and quality of this type of assessment. across the duration, for example, what is going on in gaza. open data is the cornerstone of the work that we do because it helps us bring transparency to this in a way that can't be interrupted. amy: i wanted to ask you about how rare your work is, which may surprise some people. not reliant on commercial imagery was recently was reported this month that he providers satellite photographs

to news organizations and other researchers have begun to restrict imagery of gaza after a "new york times" report on take positions based on the images. can you talk about this? in the early days of russia's invasion of ukraine, commercial satellite companies provided some of the most compelling images and insights into how the conflict was developing on the ground. of course, this has changed after israel's attacks and invasion of gaza. >> thank you, andy. while i can't really comment on the politics or the policy of specific company, all i can say is leveraging open data that we use can guarantee that regardless of what is happening in the private sector, open earth observation has the potential to at least give some type of insight into the impacts

of conflict happening on the ground. i think that is all we can really say. juan: and could you talk a little bit more about what the differences are between the commercial images and the ones that you use? >> what we're doing is a scientific analysis of satellite radar data. i want you to imagine a camera flash. take a picture of something at nighttime. it goes through space, bounces off the surfaces come off the face, illuminates the face, back to the sensor and you have recorded an image. 700 kilometers in altitude. satellite radar. similar to a camera fast, a burst of microwaves goes down to the earth, they illuminate a region and in the echoes of these waves, scatter back to the sensor and we can make an image that the sensors make an image,

regardless of day or night, cloud cover condition. this as to the level of consistency. every revisit, usually have a good acquisition. what we're doing is listening for very small changes in these echoes. if you imagine walking into room where there's no furniture, listen to the sound of your voice echoing throughout the room. you remember that echo. you go back later after installing carpet or a bookshelf and you can hear slight change. algorithms are looking for very small variations in the radar echoes that bounce off the earth's surface and go back to the satellite to map indicators of the image. this is very much different than a picture. we are not looking at pictures. we are running satellite radar data to scientific algorithms we have spent years developing. amy: jamon van den hoek, if you

can explain how open access to the satellite images helps you understand and compare conflicts like what you see in gaza and how are these images different from commercial imagery and how you get it? and comparing gaza, for example, to mariupol in ukraine? >> as corey was saying, we're sensitive to different things than when you could see basically a birds eye view of gaza. we are sensitive to lateral damage. so damage to the walls the sides i buildings, structures you can't see if you just look top down. that is a key difference just between overhead imagery and side looking radar imagery. it is a bit technical but that is a big difference when we have ground invasion. not everything has a root being destroyed.

the other aspect that corey was touching on is well, and you mentioned with an article, are the restrictions were commercial providers over many years of developing relationships as a dependency on using commercial imagery in the humanitarian space as well as journalism to monitor conflict affects on communities, landscapes, farms. that has developed the kind of relationship with his commercial providers such that that is basically the literacy is using those kinds of high-resolution images, the kind you might say a google map or apple maps. very clear high detail. you can make out features. however, those images are usually very small scale. they are narrow strips of land. they are acquired in a sort of ad hoc and sometimes inconsistent manner. if there's cloud cover, you cannot see through the clouds.

working over the country as large as ukraine, it is incredibly difficult to get wall-to-wall -- the entire of ukraine with commercial imagery not just because of the size but all of that atmospheric and weather affects that obscure your view. we don't have those kinds of restrictions. we are working with the space agency which is an amazing satellite that has been in operations for about eight years. we don't have those restrictions. in a sense, we can just as easily detect conditions damaged whether it is cloudy, whether it is day or night. it doesn't matter to us. we don't need visible light do this. because we have open access, even juan can go and download your own cell images, everyone has access. there is tremendous

transparency. we are not hiding any sort of commercial barrier or algorithm where the inner workings are unclear. we are trying to be incredibly transparent and be direct with the limitations of what this approach offers. and sharing this with actors, journalists, humanitarian organizations who can do other things with that weekend. we can map likely damage, make estimates of damaged structures. we cannot do all of these other amazing things that so many people are working on on the ground as well as through remote journalism practices. it has become a really very much a team effort where, yes, we're doing this analysis in open way but what we generate we share and then it goes -- it has gone off and people and made amazing products there really told a kind of narrative we have never been able to imagine. amy: professor, have you been

warned about what you're doing? have you been warned? i don't hear you. sorry. go ahead. >> know, we have not been warned. there is nothing illegal about what we're doing. we are accessing imagery -- we have not been communicated with anybody of this nature. juan: jamon, you worked on a report with amnesty international looking at the 2014 israeli attacks on gaza and also analyzed satellite imagery back then. how has the science evolved over the years? >> it is like night and day. back then we were working with also open data but a combination of commercial imagery. this system we are with now did not exist at that time. this radar technology that we

are using today. working with amnesty international, also led by forensic architecture. we were able to combine different kinds of satellite images to monitor very specific teachers. so we were able to see individual trees destroyed by tanks or trucks. but it was very localized and it was also -- it was such a short conflict. very, very brief. there we just looked at before and after. that approach does not work with the conflict with a war that has gone on 47 days. we are not interested in the after. we want to know the process. we want to know that change as it manifests on the ground. we did not really have the means to do it. amy: 10 seconds. >> every five days, we can update this and we have a much better sense of grasping the

dynamics of this war than any other conflict we have looked at. amy: jamon van den hoek and corey scher, part of the decentralized mapping group, a network of satellite image scientists using remote sensing to analyze and map the damage and destruction in the gaza strip.