11/24/23 11/24/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> what i think the obvious thing that our tax dollars subsidizing apartheid, subsidizing segregationist border, jim crow regime, but i

also felt as an african-american who was reared on against jim crow, against white supremacy, against apartheid -- i felt tremendous shame. how could i not know? amy: "but we must speak." in this special broadcast, we hear the words of national book award winning author ta-nehisi coates, civil rights attorney and author michelle alexander, columbia professor rashid khalidi, and others from an event organized by the palestine festival of literature organized in response to israel's bombardment of gaza. >> this is part of a 100 years war on palestine. it is not a war in palestine, it is a war to implant a settler colonial presence at the expense of indigenous people, which is being pushed out slowly but surely. amy: all that and more, coming up.

this is democracy now!, democracynow.org. i am amy goodman. today a special broadcast. "but we must speak: on palestine and the mandates of conscience." that was the name of a november 1 event here in new york where leading writers and academics came together to speak out against israel's bombardment of gaza. the event was held at the union theological seminary in manhattan, but it almost did not happen. four other venues declined to host the gathering. over the next hour, we will hear the words of the acclaimed writer ta-nehisi coates who won the national book award for his book "between the world and me." he was in conversation with the palestinian american historian rashid khalidi, the edward said professor of modern arab studies at columbia university. his books include "the hundred years' war on palestine." there discussion was moderated

by michelle alexander, author of -- and renowned civil rights attorney. >> since 2008, palestine has been bringing writers and artists from around the world to palestine for weeklong festival, staging per -- free public events in multiple cities across palestine. some of you have been our guests , participants, and advisors. as we come together it is beautiful sanctuary tonight, churches, mosques, hospitals, and refugee camps in gaza are being bombed by israel. our professed colleagues and friends, and partners in the west bank are living in terror

for their safety and the safety of their families. the young writers in gaza who organized a night of poetry in the besieged strip ahead of the opening of howfest -- palfest last may have stopped replying to the messages. mohammedpadawan, who contributed a poem that evening last may, still replying to messages and posting on instagram. with no food or water and power amid constant bombardment come he writes that when his phone lights up, the internet feels like a miracle. some of the writers and activists and the west bank visited last may and in years prior are having their photographs and addresses

circulated on check groups among armed israeli settlers calling for the murder. some of the publishers and editors who have worked with these writers and artists and activists are in this room today. in response to this disaster, we are holding this event as an urgent intervention by writers, scholars, and poets who have worked at the unavoidable intersection of art and politics, who have thought deeply about land, segregation, colonization, history, and liberation. we thank the union theological seminary were taking this is added time would be events are being canceled. this is the fifth space we approached to host us this evening. the difficulty is not because of availability. amy: that was yasmin el-rifae of

the palestine festival of literature speaking at an event at the union theological seminary here in new york. it was titled "but we must speak" on palestine and mandates of conscience. this is of a rights attorney michelle alexander, renowned author of the book "the new jim crow: mass incarceration in the age of colorblindness." about five years ago, alexander wrote a widely read op-ed piece for "the new york times" headlined "time to break the silence on palestine." >> the fact 70 people are here tonight, so many from all different religions, races, genders is a testament to hope. i know so many of us are carrying a great deal of grief, fear, anger, internal conflict, and despair into this room. i hope we can breathe together

now that we have arrived. exhale, open our hearts to one another and listen deeply to each other. we are here. we are many. we are not alone. on behalf of serene jones, the president of union theological seven or, i want to welcome you. serene could not join us tonight because she had a commitment to washington, d.c., but she wishes she could be here and extends a very warm welcome to you. it is no secret that many people are closing the doors to these kinds of conversations right now. fearful of what others might say, think, or do in response. i am enormously grateful that serene said yes when i asked her if the palestine literary festival could come to union and use the sacred space. she said yes knowing that her decision might invite criticism or rebuke. she also knew that james chapel

has been the site of many, many difficult courageous conversations, dialogues that are central to our elected liberation and the creation of beloved community. in fact, he was in this very space that reverend dr. martin luther king jr. was originally scheduled to deliver his 1960 seven speech condemning the vietnam war. the event was ultimately relocated to riverside church across the street due to the overwhelming number of people who wanted to hear what he had to say in our space limitations here. at riverside, dr. king stepped to the podium and said "i come to this magnificent house of worship tonight because my conscience leaves me no other choice. a time comes when silence is betrayal and that time has come for us in relation to vietnam." dr. king acknowledged how difficult it could be for people to speak out against their own government, especially in times of war and that the temptations

of conformity may lead us toward a paralyzed apathy. he did not deny that the issues is it in vietnam were complex, with long histories. he recognized that there were a big you would and that north vietnam and the national liberation front were not paragons of virtue. he said that he was morally obligated to speak for the suffering and helpless and outcast children of vietnam. he said, "this, i believed to be the privilege and the burden of all of us who deem ourselves bound by allegiances and loyalties which are broader and deeper than nationalism and which go beyond our nation self defined goals and positions. we are called to speak for the week, for the voiceless, for the victims of our nation, and for those it calls enemy, for no document from human hands can make these humans any less our brothers."

he condemned the vietnam war and unsparing terms. he decried the moral bankruptcy of a nation that does not hesitate to invest in bonds and work around the world that can never seem to find the dollars to eradicate poverty at home. he called for a radical revolution of values. he said, "we must rapidly begin the shift from a thing oriented society to a person-oriented society. when machines and computers, profit out of, property rights are considered more important than people. the giant troubles of racism, extreme materialism and material militarism are incapable of being conquered." dr. king was condemned by virtually every major media outlet. even within the civil rights community, many activists said he was a traitor to the cause. and yet now we know deep within us we know that he was right.

he is right. he is right today and he was right back then. about the corrupting forces of capitalism, militarism, and racism and how they lead toward war. and he was right that our conscience must leave us no other choice. we must speak when the oppressed, the poor, the weaker under attack. when their homes are stolen or demolished. when they are forced to migrate and live in unspeakable conditions, in open era prisons, concentration camps perpetually as refugees under occupation, we must speak. we must speak when jewish children are brutally killed in the name of liberation. when antisemitism and islamophobia slip in through the backdoor of supposedly progressive spaces. when palestinian children in refugee camps are bombed and killed. when schools and hospitals and

entire neighborhoods are laid waste, we must speak. with international law is treated like a naïve suggestion, we must speak. yes, it may be difficult. yes, we will make mistakes. we are human. yes, we may he afraid but we must speak. countless lives in the liberation of all of us depend on us breaking our silences. and what is required in these times, as i see it, is not only activism and politics, but also deeply personal spiritual work as gracefully box once said, "these are the times to grow our souls. all of us have a conches that whispers to us sometimes in the dark of the mandates of conscious that arise within each of us arise not out of loyalty to abstract principles or doctrines, but from a deep place of knowing. a deep knowing that we owe

something to each other as human beings, that we belong to each other and that our freedom and liberation depends on one another. if i do not stand and speak up when the bombs are raining down on you, then who will speak up for me, for my loved ones when the tables are turned? as james baldwin wrote to angela davis more than 50 years ago as she sat in a prison cell, where if they hate you in the morning, they will be coming for us at night. amy: civil rights attorney and author michelle alexander speaking at a november 1 event at the union theological socity -- seminary in new york organized by the palestine festival of literature. coming up, michelle alexander moderates a discussion by the renowned author ta-nehisi coates and columbia university professor rashid khalidi. stay with us.

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in this special broadcast, we are airing excerpts of a recent event organized by the palestine festival of literature at the union theological seminary here in new york. it featured a discussion between the acclaimed writer ta-nehisi coates and columbia university

professor rashid khalidi. coates won the national book award for his book "between the world and me," his other books, we were eight years and power, the beautiful struggle and the novel "the water dancer." rashid khalidi is the edward said professor of modern arab studies at columbia university. his books include "the 100 years war on palestine." their conversation was moderated by the civil rights attorney and author michelle alexander, who asked about personal connections to palestine. this is professor rashid khalidi. >> i'm honored to be here and i'm extremely pleased that it was possible to put this together. this is the second palestine festival of literature event that has been canceled and canceled again and the heroic organizers managed to pull it together. they did the same thing in london where i was supposed to speak last friday. it was canceled and canceled again in london.

they sent the anti-terrorism police to the royal geographic society and told them they could not hold the event but they held it anyway. [applause] my connection to palestine is obviously a personal one. my family's from there. i have family there now. my niece's family is actually in gaza. they live in a neighborhood of gaza right near the sea or not far from the sea. they fled from their home under bombardment to the southern part of gaza. they were being bombarded there. and so they went back to the shelter of their home. they just two days -- just yesterday, because they were warned that the neighborhood would be bombed, they moved to the al-shifa hospital in gaza, which is like all hospitals in gaza, threatened by the israeli military with being bombed. so that's part of my connection. and i have family in other places there.

i was there last in march. and it was obvious that the situation was on the point of exploding. one has to be there to see exactly how awful occupation and dispossession and decades of living as people have had to live, whether in refugee camps or in other parts of occupied palestine, whether they're palestinian citizens living as fifth class citizens in israel, whether they're in the gaza strip, whether they're in the west bank, whether they're in jerusalem. i should say that my wish is that every single one of you has a chance to go there. people who have been there have found it a transformative experience. you actually cannot believe what settler colonialism is like. you cannot believe that in the 21st century, this is being done to an entire people unless you see it. you can read about it.

you can understand it theoretically, but you have to see it. and i urge those of you who have the opportunity to please try and try and go there. >> yeah, i want to pick up on wherever she left off. i went with palfest, yes mean, the palfest post and i was there ,. for five days in occupied territories in jerusalem and then i stayed another five days after that. and i had this degree of anxiety about going because i knew i was going to see something something i couldn't quite name. and i knew because of my upbringing, because of my mother and because my father, because of my wife, because of my son, because of my community that

after i saw the thing, i'm gonna have to come back and talk about it. that there was no option in which i did not talk about. and i thought i was going to another country, but in fact, what amazed me was i actually felt that i was in the same country. but i was in a different time. i was in the time of my parents and my grandparents. i can think back to all of the articles i've read, all the things i've seen said about how complicated and how complex the situation in the occupation. that it's complex. it's complicated. and it's made to sound as though you need a degree in middle eastern studies, or some such a phd, to really understand what's happening.

but i understood the first day. we went to east jerusalem to try to visit in the way that muslims visit to al-aqsa mosque. and i can remember being there and they had the biggest guns i've ever seen my life. they checked our ids and they gave ids back and than and they did nothing. they just made us wait. and we waited. and we waited. and we waited. there was no list. there is no protocol. there was no anything. they were just making us wait because they could. in summer and the back of my mind i was like, i know what this is. i know exactly what this is. the second day, we went to hebron. i can remember walking down streets with the palestinian

guy. and we would get to certain streets and he would say, i can't walk down the street with you. you can walk, i cannot because i'm palestinian. and i thought, i know what that is. as we drove through the occupied territories and i would look out and i would see roads that palestinians could use and roads that only he's really jews could use, said, i know what this is. i saw different colored license for different classes of people. plates for different classes of people. i said, i know this is. as i saw communities that i can only describe a segregated, said, this is chicago, baltimore, philadelphia. and i don't mean to center the whole world on america, we have a tendency to do that. but my lens is my lens. this is all i have. and what i felt was a tremendous weight, i felt the obvious thing that i think all of us feel that our tax dollars are effectively

subsidizing apartheid, are subsidizing a segregationist order, a jim crow regime. but i also felt that as an african american, who was reared on the fight against jim crow and against white supremacy, against apartheid. i felt tremendous shame. how can i not know? how could i not know that the only democracy in the middle east as it bills itself is segregated? how did i not know? what i came to, michelle, israel is a democracy, the only democracy in the middle east in the exact same way that america is the oldest democracy in the world. [applause] so the relationship was quite clear. it was quite clear.

it was palpable. it was felt and responsibly was clear after that. >> so let's take a step back and talk a little bit about the history. both of you have written a lot about the importance of understanding history in order to engage meaningfully with our present. both of you have talked about history and ongoing processes rather than as complete, finished, and in the past. and you've written that there was no isolated event. the nakba that began and ended in 1948, but rather 100 years war on palestine. and so i'm wondering if you could share with us what you

think people need to know, need to understand about the history of palestine in order to act in meaningful, courageous ways now and also what do they know need to know about the history of palestinian resistance since it is so often portrayed in the media in such an a historical fashion, as though palestinian resistance is driven by hate rather than by a natural unquenchable yearning to be , free? and so share with us what we need to know in your view. >> thanks, michelle. what we need to know all of us is more about the history. what we need to know is i think summed up in the title of the book that you just mentioned. this is part of 100 years war on palestine. it's not a war in palestine. it's a war to implant a settler

colonial presence at the expense of an indigenous people which is being pushed out slowly but surely. when we say the nakba, the disaster, we start talking. we start by talking about what happened in 1948. but that's part of a much longer process. >> can you expend what happened in 1948? >> i will. in 1948 750,000, palestinians were driven from their homes, starting months before the state of israel was created, including 70,000 people in jaffa, 70,000 in haifa -- of the largest arab two cities in palestine -- 30,000 people in jerusalem, all of this before israel was even created. and then once israel was created, once the war between israel and the arab states started, hundreds of thousands of all were driven out. that was not a result of war. that was part of a settler colonial process, which dictates that you must eliminate reduce

and push out the indigenous population in order to replace it with settlers. that is what israel is. israel is a national fact. but it is also a settler colonial fact. it is a fact very similar to the facts that were created in ireland by settlers sent over by to push the indigenous population to the west of ireland. settlers brought to this country to push the indigenous population west and out of the land that white colonists wanted to settle. it is different but it is exactly -- it is different in its specifics but it is exactly the same process. and the war is not one between equals. it is a war between a indigenous population and a externally supported powerful movement rooted always in western europe and the united states. this is the metropole for that

project. this is where that project gets its money, its guns, its vetoes in the security council. without that, we would be where we are. without the balfour declaration, without the british and the french, without the united states. and i think it's really, really important to understand all of these facts. that it is a process that is driven by demographic imperative to create the jewish majority in a country which until 1948 had been overwhelmingly arab majority stop to create a jewish state which was the objective of zionism in an overwhelmingly arab land, you had to reduce the arab appellation. and in order to do that, you ultimately had use force. that is what the nakba starts with, force. hundreds of thousands more are pushed out after the 1967 war. and in the interim, there's constant pressure on palestinians to leave.

permits are revoked, residencies are revoked. you're not allowed to enter. you are not allowed to retain this citizenship or to live here. all of it designed to squeeze the population either out of the country or into smaller and smaller spaces. you can call them area a, area b, area c, you can call them bantustans. you can call them native american reservations. it's the same thing. it's the same process. it's the same logic. it's the same racism. and the i guess the last thing i'd say about the history is that in this unequal struggle, which involves unremitting violence, one of the first leaders of the zionist movement, a man named zeb jabotinsky, the spiritual father of every government since amir's government, said we need an iron

wall, we need force or we cannot do this. every native population resists its dispossession. that's not me. that's jabotinsky. and he said it again and again and again. and that is what has produced palestinian resistance, un remitting violence. you cannot have dispossession. you cannot have people's homes and property taken away without the use of violence. you cannot force 750,000 people from their homes without violence. and that is what the palestinians have suffered in this war. and they've resisted. sometimes they've been successful. sometimes they've been unsuccessful. sometimes that resistance was political, nonviolent. quite frequently, it was violent. violence inevitably breeds violence. and every time the palestinians have tried to resist nonviolently, the response was almost even almost more ferocious than violent resistance. why? because if boycott, divestment and sanctions or action before the international criminal court or the great march of return in gaza a couple of years

ago when israeli snipers shot down hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of unarmed demonstrators -- if those things can succeed, then israel is naked in a way that it's not. -- it is not when the resistance is violent. so when he asked, why do you have violent resistance? you have violent resistance because in order to impose the step, in reality, on this people, unremitting, unceasing violence has been applied to them. and because finally, people can only take so much people can only take so much. and so i think that in order to understand this, and in order to advocate effectively for this cause, it is necessary for us to understand all of these things, to understand the legal aspects, the kinds of things many people

have written about and understand the history. this has been portrayed by a movement that is political, that is national. i'm talking about zionism. that is economic, that is military, but is also a public relations project. it has sold a picture. when you were talking about -- when people have swallowed with their mother's milk and it is necessary to deconstruct that, and the only way to do that is to know better than they do the reality of what has been happening in palestine for more than 100 years. >> ta-nehisi, can you, well, you can respond to that. but also, i'm especially interested in your thoughts about the history of black solidarity with the palestinian struggle and kind of the extent to which you think it's vital for black people to be in solidarity with palestine and the struggle to free palestine today.

>> yeah, i think it's really important to acknowledge something. and that, you know, i'm relatively late coming to this. it is not something that i had a real knowledge of. i had an intuition for it. i had awareness of the tradition. but it really was not until i went there that i had a tactile feeling for it. one of the things that i will probably be making amends for until the day they put me in the ground, if i'm honest, is in one of my most celebrated works of journalism when i had to demonstrate tangibly how a reparations program could be done, i looked to israel. and i'm to think about that.

one of my golden rules about writing is that you should only right after you have reported, only right after -- i wrote without going. and so while there is this long tradition of solidarity, for me personally, there's a thing of making amends. and it is terribly, ferociously important to me. i think about that and i think about how gracious people were when i was over there. i think about how they took me into their homes. i think about how they fed me and i think about how their only request was when you go back, don't lose your voice. that was all they asked. that was all they asked. and for me, i am obviously aware tradition but this is personal. i have some debts ahead.

it is really, really important to be clear about that. amy: we will return to this conversation between the acclaimed writer ta-nehisi coates and club university professor mohammed el-kurd rashid khalidi speaking at a november 1 event organized by the palestine festival of literature at union theological seminary here in new york. the discussion moderated by the civil rights attorney and author michelle alexander. back in a minute. ♪ [music break]

amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue to look at israel's bombardment of gaza, we return to a recent conversation between the acclaimed writer ta-nehisi coates and columbia university professor rashid khalidi. they spoke at a november 1 event organized by the palestine festival of literature at union theological seminary here in new york. the discussion moderated by the civil rights attorney and author michelle alexander. >> i feel like i came late to my awareness as well.

i had heard things, including one time from a friend, a good friend who was not prone to hyperbole, who went to palestine and returned and said, you know, i was active in the anti-apartheid movement in south africa and had been to south africa many times. but what i saw in israel and palestine was worse than what i had seen there. and i remember filing that fact away what he said, but imagine that the work that i was doing at home was what was most deserving of my attention. and it wasn't until the ferguson uprisings when i began to hear that activists on the street who were facing tear gas and tanks -- they were getting advice from

palestinians halfway across the globe, tweeting to them about how to deal with militaristic occupation and attacks. and following the experience that those activists had in ferguson, many of them went to palestinian -- palestine and came back with stories and deep knowledge of the history. and as i began to learn more, i also came to learn that the student nonviolent coordinating committee was staunchly in support of the palestinian cause that muhammad ali had identified himself strongly in the support of the palestinian cause, that the long tradition of, you know, black activists standing in

solidarity with palestinians. and i have to give a shout out to my sister's new book. she is a historian. she just published a book called "fear of a black republican in about haiti and the rise and the birth of black internationalism in the united states. but it is that long history of black people understanding that their struggle for liberation crosses boundaries, and that solidarity is necessary across those boundaries, i think, is calling to us now. and the fact that palestinians were supporting folks in the streets of ferguson and who also i have heard were showing support for people in flint, michigan, giving advice about how to survive when your water is shut off. and so it is encouraging to

me to hear about that kind of international solidarity in this time. but let's turn to some political realities in the united states right now. united states support, as we all know, for israel has been absolutely unwavering for decades, even among supposedly progressive politicians and elected officials. marc lamont hill and mitchell have written an excellent book called "except for palestine: the limits of progressive politics." and i'd love to hear from both of you a little bit about these political realities in the united states right now. we are witnessing in real time exactly how unshakeable support is for israel as the biden administration refuses to draw

any lines in the sand or place any limitations at all on the billions of dollars of aid that we send to israel, even as it commits horrific war crimes broadcast around the globe. why is our government not only tolerating this, but sending billions more dollars to israel? and before you answer, i want to note that i think a clue can be found in a speech that a young u.s. senator named joe biden delivered on the senate floor in june 1986. it's available on youtube. he said defiantly, "if we look at the middle east, i think it's about time we stop apologizing for our support for israel. there is no apology to be made . it is the best $3 billion nine. investment we make.

were it not in israel, the united states of america would have to invent in israel to protect our interests in the region, the united states would have to go out and invent in -- in israel." so what was biden saying exactly? [laughter] what do we need to understand about u.s. support for israel? [applause] >> i think we need to understand it of things. we need to understand that there's a strategic thing there serves american imperial interests. that's why the british started this project. they did not do it for the brown eyes of the jewish people. they did it because it was in the strategic interests of the british empire. and that's one reason the united states does it.

we do not give $3.8 billion a is plus the $10 million that biden has asked for additionally this year. it has to do with strategy it has to do with oil and it has to do with interest, imperial interests, it has to do with a couple other things. it does have to do with evangelical right. that's one things that moved britain to support the balfour declaration come to support a jewish national home in an almost entirely arab country. and it's one of the things that moves american politicians, the votes, the money, the concentrated political power of the evangelical right. it has to do with the money. our politicians arew h whotes. they are bought and sold. that needs to be said. [applause] in the bigger the donor, the more services they get. [laughter] that is part of it.

if we ask why is it that our media so complicit? it is partly because our media is an echo chamber for the people in power in washington. i read "the new york times" some mornings and i say "the new york prop times," and i read "the washington post," i read "the izvestia post." they are like the soviet press during the cold war. they are, whether it's the ukraine war, or whether it's this war, they echo power, but they also echo money. who owns the washington post, jeff bezos, who owns msnbc, nbc universal, msnbc, and nbc universal, who owns those institutions, those institutions of the press. the same people that own the politicians, the same who own our universities. [applause] who runs our universities? not the presidents and the deans

and the department chairmen and women, it is the board of trustees. who are the trustees? it's the same people who finance the politicians, same people on the media. so if we see a compliant media, with a government that is supportive of israel because of votes, because of evangelical right, because of imperial strategic objectives, it's very simple. when we see university administrations cowtowing to one narrative on palestine, as they have done right across the country, it is for the same reason that our media does it. and the same reason that our government does it. it is money. it is power. it is very, very simple. i can give you a more sophisticated explanation, but i think that really sums it up, frankly. [applause]

>> i don't have a better answer than that. [laughter] >> yeah, you know, it's interesting because i reflect on the fact that -- >> can i say something? i hope i did not insult sex workers. i did not mean to do. i didn't mean to do that. [applause] i am very sorry. they are far above politicians. i had to say that. >> well, i think we should probably spend a minute talking about censorship. fear and censorship. i know that both of you have significant experience with censorship.

having your work censored. i do, too. and we have seen in recent years, the censorship of books labeled "critical race theory." turned out to be a very broad category. books about lgbtq people and issues. kind of the scope of censorship keeps broadening. but we are seeing now kind of new forms or very old forms of being born again of censorship in this kind of war context. and i do worry about the possibility of us entering into another mccarthyite era, the challenges of finding sight just for this conversation, i think speak to the real risk of that.

and i wonder if both of you -- i will start with you. say a little bit about where you think of where we are right now in terms of censorship. and as was mentioned earlier, people have real fears. fears that are grounded, you know, the reality, the possibility of losing jobs, retaliation, even being attacked violently or killed as a result of expressing their views. where are we now in terms of censorship? what do you fear? and how do you think people ought to respond in this moment in time? >> you know, oddly enough, i think we're in a great place. and i don't say that lightly. i say that, as you mentioned, having some very, very direct

experience with my own work being banned in schools and libraries, and then this week, helping where i could and alternately, you know, it was you, michelle, figuring out if we can hold this event. seeing yasmine go through all the hoops. what i've gleaned from that is when people start resorting to instruments as book bans, or not allowing discussions, they're threatened. it is the weapon of a weak and a decaying order. [applause] i came back. it's like late may and i'm going crazy. i'm going to sleep and i'm dreaming about palestine.

i'm waking up and i got that glassy guide look in my face and my wife is worried about me. everybody is worried about me. i emailed a friend. i said, do you have a contact with rashid khalidi at all? and he said, yeah, i do. and he connected us and i wrote a message. you don't know me from adam. but i have got to talk to somebody about what i saw. he said, it's ok. look, i'm having a dinner this weekend. why don't you and your wife come? and i came and we sat in community and it was the thing that i needed. and among the many things that he said that night, he said, "i have been fighting this fight for a long time and i've never seen our side this strong. i've never seen students and universities galvanized." [applause]

you can confuse the ferociousness of the pushback with strength. you know what i mean? but the fact of the matter is in african-american history, for instance here in our struggle, , the struggle is the most violent when people are the most threatened. the original and the oldest and the most lethal form of domestic terrorism was pioneered after the civil war. and what it was was in response to the fact that suddenly you had multiple states throughout this country with black majorities. you had a majority black legislature in south carolina, the pushback had to be ferocious. it had to be violent. it needed to be because of that sheer strength of the threat. that's generally been our history. and so now in this moment, when i look out and i see not just my

work banned, but i see the work of my colleagues banned, and i see come as you mentioned, lgbtq others banned, when i situate myself within the history of like writing, and understand the fact that there was never any sake moment for black writing in this country's history. when i understand that, when frederick douglass publishes his narrative, and he goes and he talks about it, he has a price when i say he was dragged back into slavery at any moment. when i see i to be wells was driven out of memphis, tennessee, for reporting on the lynching and the murder of her friends and she continued to report on it nonetheless. when i understand that elijah lovejoy was was shot to death in the press was -- shoved in into the river. you have to be realistic about this moment. would avenue, man? you had to find another location for your talk tonight. that was quite simple compared

to the long history of things. my wife was kind enough to send me an article about this district with "between the world and me was quote and have been in this deep red district and have been his whole fight about it. and a white library. the libraries had, this is the most checked out book. it's not because of me, it's because of you. know what i'm saying? and so like the very fact that you guys are here, the very unfortunate fact that some of you who are watching this couldn't get in. you know what i mean? the fact that we had the struggle to find a venue for this event doesn't say anything about the strength of this movement here. it didn't say anything about our strength. it says a lot about the threat, and what people feel and weakness. [applause] i don't know. anybody that knows me knows that

i am not one known for my optimism. [laughter] but i feel it in this moment. i really do. close i mean, i don't have much to say after that. but i am completely convinced that ta-nehisi coates is right. the first thing is this idea that the international community supports what israel is doing. acts as if the united states western europe and a few white settler colonies in japan are they to national community. they aren't. they're a pimple on the backside of humanity. the international community is india and china, bangladesh, indonesia, pakistan, congo, nigeria, brazil. i could go on. those are the people who voted the united nations for a cease-fire. 120 countries. there were 14 -- [applause] there were 14 that voted against

. six island nations, the united states, israel, and a bunch of hangers on. that's not the world. the world is actually with us , indeed, in this country. the press? no. the politicians? no. universities? certainly know. and by that i mean the administrations. look at the campus i teach on. five years ago, columbia students voted overwhelmingly in support a boycott, divestment, and sanctions of companies that support the occupation. [applause] overwhelmingly, same thing happened at brown. same thing happened at barnard. same thing happened at michigan. same thing happened at almost every university where the thing was put to a book. the students are with us. by a vote, we know that. i was on television the other day for my sins.

terrible thing to go on television. don't do it if you don't have to. and i mentioned that young people are with us. and god bless her, the interviewer said to me, yeah, there's a poll here that says, on biden's handling of the gaza situation, in the age group from 18 to 35, he has 10% support. 10%. [applause] i could give you -- i could give you more polls. they are terrified of us. that's why we're getting censorship. >> we have to close now. and you know, i think as we sit here in the center of the most powerful empire in the world, we need to think about what our

responsibility. as king said in his speech to those who have been defined as our enemy and consider not just, like, what we must say, but what we must do. and i'm wondering if you have thoughts that you want to share? >> i do. thank you. one of the things that i argue in this book that you mentioned, is this is not a war on the palestinians waged by the zionist movement or israel alone. it's a war waged on the palestinian people by israel and the united states. those are our weapons. those are american f-35's. american f-15s. american f-16s. american 175 millimeters guns. they far shells of 100 pounds

each. i could tell you their kill radius. i could tell you how large the diameter of a 2000 pound bomb dropped from the american plane is. that's us. that is our tax dollars. our votes. we must oppose with action, with words -- not just weapons that we send to israel to kill people with being used in that way. incidentally in violation of u.s. law, u.s. law mandates that weapons can only be used for defensive purposes. i do you think they keep saying in everyone of their statements that israel has a right to defend itself? because otherwise, they would be in violation of u.s. law in sending this weapons to israel. if killing children in jabalia camp is a defensive purpose, then it's illegal. and if it is not, they are in violation of the law. we must oppose that and we must oppose the possibility of the united states being complicit in ethnic cleansing.

we must oppose it as strongly as we can. otherwise, we are the ethnic cleansers and we are the killers. we may not be the ones pulling the trigger, we may not be the ones forcing people out into egypt or jordan, but we are responsible. our government has just said that it's willing to fund that. now, maybe they will pull back on it, but they will only pull back on it if we make them stop. thank you. amy: that was columbia university professor rashid khalidi in conversation with acclaimed writer ta-nehisi coates at a november 1 event organized by the palestine festival of literature at union theological seminary here in new york. the discussion was moderated by the civil rights attorney and author michelle alexander. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to outreach@democracynow.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]