[captioning made possible by democracy now!] ♪ amy: from new york, this is democracy now! pre.s biden: that's my goal, so we can continue to see more hostages come out, more humanitarian need for those in gaza. amy: the four-day truce in gaza has entered its final day, but negotiations are continuing to

extend it. so far, hamas has released 58 hostages who had been held captive for seven weeks. israel has released 117 imprisoned palestinian women and children. most had been held without charge. we will go to israel and the occupied west bank for the latest, then speak to a former palestinian prisoner and a former israeli military commando, who helped cofound the group combatants for peace. >> we struggle against is really occupation in the region. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. calls are mounting to extend the

four-day truce in gaza, which is now in its final day. hamas backed the extension sunday, as have international mediators egypt, qatar, and the united states. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu said he is open to extend the truce by one day for every 10 hostages released by hamas. a total of 58 hostages have been released so far, including citizens of thailand, the philippines, and russia. a four-year-old israeli-american girl, abigail edan, was among the captives released on sunday. 117 palestinian prisoners have been freed from israeli prisons during the truce. scenes of reunited families and celebrations over the weekend offered a glimpse of hope amid the temporary lull in fighting. in the occupied west bank, palestinians celebrated on the streets as their loved ones returned. this is hanan takatkah, a mother in bethlehem whose son was freed on friday.

hanan: it wasn't indescribable feeling when i heard there was a deal. our joy is not complete. we are happy our children are released, but our joy is not complete. at the end, we are very happy for our children, but there was a price to be paid. there were other children who died. amy: ahead of the prisoners released, the head of the far right minister, celebrations in east jerusalem and ordered people to rate the homes. "my instructions are clear, there are to be no expressions of joy." some 15,000 palestinians have been killed since israel's assault on gaza began on october 7, mostly women and children. researchers say the death rate is unprecedented in this century. the assault has caused mass

displacement and widespread destruction, including to hospitals and other essential infrastructure. some displaced gazans said they were barred from re-entering the neighborhoods and homes they fled, barred by israeli forces. meanwhile, the red crescent said northern gaza is finally getting an influx of aid, thanks to the truce. as the fragile truce held through the weekend, israeli forces continued deadly attacks on the occupied west bank, killing at least eight palestinians, including two children. that is according to local health officials. at least five of those deaths came during another raid on the jenin refugee camp. this is a resident of jenin. >> they enter houses and demolish them and damage them. they just inflict destruction. it is just a matter of destruction. amy: over 200 palestinians in

the occupied west bank have been killed by israeli forces or settlers since october 7. police in vermont have arrested a white suspect in the shooting of 320-year-old students of palestinian descent saturday. all three survive, though one is said to have suffered much more serious injuries. two of the men were wearing cokathias and were speaking arabic at the time of the attack, one was a brown university student, another of haverford college, and another student at trinity college. the families of the victims and advocacy groups urged authorities to investigate the shooting as a hate crime a spike of anti-arab and anti-muslim attacks in the united states.

the suspect, jason j. eaton, is being arraigned today. the three were visiting one of their grandmothers in burlington, vermont. meanwhile, the indian american muslim council is calling for authorities to investigate a possible hate crime motive in the november 17 stabbing of two muslim students of indian origin in fremont, california. the attacks occurred at a busy shopping and dining area in broad daylight and left cousins syed shadan ul haq and khalid bin masood yafai with critical injuries. the suspect, miguel angel villareal, has been charged with one count of attempted first-degree murder. here in new york, about 1000 peaceful protesters held a sit-in protest sunday at the entrance to the manhattan bridge, halting traffic to downtown brooklyn. protesters led by jewish voice for peace unfurled banners reading "let gaza live" and "the

whole world is watching" as they sat in the roadway chanting, "up with liberation, down with occupation." their protest came three days after protesters disrupted the macy's thanksgiving day parade to demand an end to u.s. support for israel's occupation and bombardment of gaza. protesters wore jumpsuits covered in fake blood and glued themselves to the street, briefly displaying banners reading "free palestine" and "genocide then. genocide now" before police moved in to arrest them. in seattle, the city council passed a resolution backing a ceasefire, the largest u.s. city to do so. but seattle city councilmember kshama sawant, who proposed the resolution, called it "watered down," after it removed condemnation of the israeli military, the occupation, and u.s. funding for israel.

elsewhere, tens of thousands of cubans, led by president miguel diaz-canel, marched thursday to the u.s. embassy in havana, accusing the united states of supporting israeli's "genocide" against palestinians in gaza. in glasgow, scotland, the bbc has been accused of censorship, after the network edited calls for a gaza ceasefire out of its coverage of an awards ceremony . this is bafta-winning director eilidh munro, who won for her short film "a long winter," but had her acceptance speech cut from the bbc edit. eilidh: we have got our responsibility to elevate the world's most important story, and we want to say that we stand in solidarity with anyone in palestine. [applause] amy: meanwhile, israel has

summoned the ambassadors of belgium and spain after their countries' leaders spoke at the rafah border crossing between egypt and gaza friday, condemning israeli attacks against palestinian civilians. this is spanish prime minister pedro sanchez. pm sanchez: it is going to be necessary to establish a lasting humanitarian cease-fire, to reverse the catastrophic situation that the people are going through. amy: in new york, the former director of nyu langone hospital's cancer center has filed a lawsuit after he was fired for posting racist cartoons of arab people on social media as well as several messages against palestinians, including one questioning the scale of the death toll in gaza due to israel's nonstop bombardment. dr. benjamin neel is accusing nyu langone health of violating city and state human rights laws. his firing came after nyu langone first removed a

palestinian medical resident from one of its hospitals, dr. zaki masoud, for posting messages on social media in solidarity with palestine. neel responded saying he had been "offered up as a sacrificial lamb," so nyu langone could claim impartiality." in the netherlands, far-right, islamaphobic populist geert wilders has vowed to become the next dutch prime minister after his freedom party won the most votes in last week's election. but wilders will first have to make agreements with at least two other parties to form a government. other dutch politicians have expressed reticence or outright refused to back wilders, who has advocated banning the quran, prohibiting islamic schools and mosques, and denying entry to asylum seekers. in 2017, he referred to moroccan immigrants as "scum" during a campaign event. he has also made anti-trans remarks.

wilders' victory has rocked the mostly liberal nation, and european neighbors who are also facing threats of a shift to the far-right. protesters took to the streets of utrecht on thursday evening. >> this is needed, because my kids, adults, a lot of people woke up in this country, and we overate if they are still welcome here. >> this is not the country i fell in love with, which i love so much. the country i love is a country in which we hold each other tight and live together. amy: in another protest, four greenpeace activists jumped into parliament pond in the hague to protest geert wilders, who has threatened to withdraw from the paris climate agreement and slash spending on the climate crisis. ukraine's military says it shot down 71 of 75 drones launched by russia saturday in what officials are calling the largest such attack since russia's invasion early last year.

at least two people were injured in kyiv, where falling debris sparked fires at residential buildings and a kindergarten. the russian drone attacks came just days after u.s. secretary of defense lloyd austin visited kyiv, where he announced another $100 million in military aid for ukraine. the united nations reports over 10,000 civilians have been killed in ukraine since russia invaded. in dublin, ireland, hundreds of far-right protesters fought street battles with police on thursday, in riots that erupted after a knife attack at a school that left five people injured, including three children. police say the rioters were driven by misinformation about the knife attack, which was blamed on an immigrant. the bbc reports the attacker was in fact an irish citizen who has lived in ireland for 20 years. anti-immigration protests erupted in ireland this year after the government received more than 140,000 immigrants, its highest total in 15 years.

thousands of people took to the streets in cities around the world saturday to mark the international day for the elimination of violence against women. an estimated 50,000 people turned out in rome, as protesters demanded justice for a 22-year-old student who was recently killed by her ex-boyfriend in a case that has rocked italy. in guatemala, demonstrators wrote out the number "438" with candles, in a tribute to the women who have been killed so far this year. meanwhile in argentina, women condemned the agenda of the newly elected president, far-right libertarian javier milei. >> i think everything the government of javier milei stands for infringes on the right against women, abortion, gender violence, equality in the workplace. i'm convinced we have hard times ahead. amy: in australia, police

arrested over 100 climate activists during a two-day blockade of the world's largest coal port. thousand of activists participated in the blockade, occupying the port of newcastle by swimming or kayaking in the port's shipping lane. australia is the world's second largest exporter of coal. 97-year-old revered alan stuart was one of the detained activists. organizers say he is the oldest person ever arrested and charged in australia. reverend stuart spoke to reporters after the action. reverend stuart: whatever happens to me does not matter, but what happens to the climate, because the climate is going to affect future generations, my grandchildren and great-grandchildren and so on. amy: in oregon, thousands of teachers are expected to return to work today after reaching a historic tentative agreement with the portland public schools. the deal reached sunday came more than three weeks after teachers at 81 portland-area schools walked out on strike.

the portland association of teachers union said the tentative deal had secured key wins, including demands for higher wages, class size limits, and more time to plan lessons. thousands of amazon workers across europe went on strike on black friday, one of the busiest shopping days of the year, protesting the retail giant's working conditions and demanding fair wages. the global campaign make amazon pay said strikes and protests would take place from friday through today in at least 30 countries. in coventry, england, over 1000 amazon warehouse workers walked off the job friday, blocking the facility's entrance and preventing trucks from leaving. this is the tree union leader. >> we have people joining us from germany, from the u.s., from italy come out on strike today. this is now a global wake-up call for amazon. they cannot keep ignoring the concerns of the workers and

workers in warehouses around the world. it is clear that this is a huge mentis thing that amazon needs to listen to. amy: and pablo yoruba guzman, the visionary former minister of information of the young lords and longtime print and television reporter, has died of a heart attack. in 1969, guzman co-founded the new york chapter of the predominantly puerto rican radical group the young lords, which fought against police brutality, racism, u.s. imperialism, and militarism. the young lords also provided health care, childcare, and breakfast to impoverished people, most of them black and latino. pablo guzman went on to write for publications, including the "village voice" and "rolling stone," and spent nearly two decades at new york station

wcbs. his long-time friend, democracy now! co-host juan gonzalez, called guzman "the best street reporter on tv." and those are some of the headlines this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. when we come back, the four-day truce in gaza has entered its final day, but negotiations are continuing to extend the truce. we will go to israel and the west bank on the hostages and prisoner releases. ♪ ♪ [music break] amy: "a

child" by oumaima khalil and marcel khalife. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the temporary four-day truce in gaza has entered its final day, but negotiations are continuing to extend the truce. so far, hamas has released a total of 58 hostages who had been held captive for seven weeks. 39 of the freed hostages have been israel citizens. hamas also released 17 thai workers, a filipino worker, and an israeli-russian.

since the truce began, israel has released 117 imprisoned palestinians, mostly women and children, including many who had been held without charge. a holocaust survivor was released and her granddaughter spoke sunday. >> i can say that she is back, and i can say she was sad and thinking about the family a lot, and it has helped her survive, and she could hear the voices of her grade grandchildren calling her, and that gave her a lot of power, and that she is now trying to realize what is happening here, about a log of

friends and neighbors that are either dead or kidnapped and her oldest grandson that is also a hostage, that she has no house to return. amy: in the occupied west bank, crowds gathered to celebrate the release of palestinians held in prison. this is one of the teenagers release. >> prison guards made us start. they gave us two patches of bread, which was not enough to there were also children, 11 years old and 12 years old, with us, and there was not enough food for them. amy: health officials in gaza now say the death toll from israel's bombardment has reached nearly 15,000. "the new york times" is reporting the rate of civilians killed in gaza by israel has been far higher than in recent wars in ukraine, iraq, syria,

and afghanistan. "the times" reports more than twice as many women and children have already been reported killed in gaza in the last seven weeks than have been confirmed killed in ukraine since russia launched its attack nearly two years, though the exact death tolls in both conflicts is unknown. earlier today, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu visited israeli troops in gaza and told them "israel will continue until the end. nothing will stop us." we are joined now by two guests. we go to jerusalem where we are joined by orly noy, israeli political activist and editor of the hebrew-language news site, local call. she is also the chair of b'tselem's executive board. her new piece for +972 magazine is, "what israelis won't be asking about the palestinians released for hostages."

tala naser is also with us, a lawyer at the palestinian prisoner and human rights organization addameer . welcome to you both. if you can talk about this temporary truce that could end today or possibly will continue, israel says, for each day that hamas releases at least 10 hostages, what this four-day respite has meant, who has been released, orly? orly: thank you so much for having me. as soon as the exchange of prisoners was agreed upon, israel came up with a list

of 300 palestinians, almost all of them minor, with a few women included, that would be released throughout the cease-fire. when you look at the names, as you said, first off, many of them were never charged with anything. i mean, the numbers are incredible, the latest data from the beginning of november talk about more than 6800 palestinians, political prisoners, what israel refers to as security prisoners. more than 2000 of them in detention. it means that not only have a never been convicted with anything, they have never

been charged with anything, so they never had the opportunity to defend themselves. you look at minor palestinian teenagers who have been arrested for throwing food at the police detail, one of the names in that list is in prison just simply for calling with a group of his friends alallah akbar, yes, god is great. another sitting in jail for allegedly intending to carry out an attack, not even doing anything in practice. others have been charged with attempts to carry out scabbing attacks or even did so, mildly

injured policemen and women, so you see that the charges are incredibly minor, but what this really did allow is how special the tool of incarceration is in the occupation and oppression of the palestinian people. amy: talk about, that thai, filipino hostage, russian-is really hostage was released -- russian-israleli hostage was released. orly: the past few days, the release of hostages have been really sort of a national

celebration and what are may be the darkest days that israelis can remember. there was in anticipation for the return, especially of the children, who society know by name, each of the hostages, so there is a lot of anxiety in the united states for the return, a national embrace, and they of course went they went for medical treatment, those who needed a medical checkup for all of them, and they have, i mean, this is just the beginning of their journey back to life, because many of them don't know what happened since they have

been through captivity. many of them lost immediate family members and are just now learning about it, so it is a very bittersweet moment for them and for society as a whole. amy: now, from the beginning, it was said that is americans or israeli americans would be released, and it was only known that the four-year-old, abigail and dan, -- abigail edan, was released, both of her parents were murdered. it is amazing that she made it to her neighbor's house, and they are abigail was captured, along with the mom and her three kids, i think her oldest daughter and the husband were murdered. and then they were all taken into captivity. she is the first american to be

released, and some are speculating that hamas is holding off on americans so that biden will put pressure on netanyahu to continue the cease-fire. orly: we are being told so, and it actually makes some sense, because, i mean, it is almost ironic that while israel is incarcerating palestinian children for throwing stones, at the same time, the only lesson, the only way to actually release palestinian prisoners is through such heinous crimes, such as the one that hamas carried out on october 7. i mean, really, the amount of palestinians, children, women,

minors, and others in the prison , without any due process, without the ability to really honestly protect themselves, it is such that right now it seems that their only hope is through such actions, again, horrible, violent, heinous actions taken by hamas, but israel has not shown any other way for palestinians to be able to resist the occupation, which they have a right to, without spending the rest of their lives in israeli prison. amy: tala, i want to go back to what ben-gvir, the far right

cabinet minister, said, the israeli minister of national security, ben-gvir, instructed police to use an iron fist against attempts to celebrate prisoner releases and said, "my instructions are clear, there are to be no expressions of joy. expressions of joy are equivalent to backing terrorism. victory celebration gives back into those human scum, or those nazis." if you can talk about what this means. the west bank, we have seen thousands of people coming out to celebrate the young men now, boys when they were arrested, some have come of a wall they were in prison. but in use jerusalem, we are not seeing that. is it because they are terrified of being arrested for terrorism? i mean, this from ben-gvir, and

man himself who was convicted in israeli court 15 years ago of inciting hatred of palestinians and of terrorism? tala: yes, good morning thank you for having me. i want to talk about civil violations of the past three days within this exchange, starting with the west bank, so israeli forces deliberately hosted an effort on this, at least of this occupation. they first delayed the prisoners until late at night. additionally, this was perfection, asking who is better. sources also had bombs, light

emulation, where families were gathered, to meet with children and loved ones. on the other hand, and concerning, the homes of prisoners before the release of occupy jerusalem. they also had signs of celebration, upon, of course, reuniting with their loved ones, sons and daughters. the families of those released, they were subjected to harsh and unsanitary conditions, banning them from marches and fireworks, prevented them from chanting slogans and confiscating what was inside the houses. also, journalists that were

present at the homes of released prisoners, assaulting them and expelling them out of the houses. that is banned from media coverage. that is what happened. these violations happened in the west bank and in occupy jerusalem in the past three days of the prisoner exchange. amy: can you talk about particular cases of young people who are imprisoned, talon a naser? if you can speak to us about the young man, tell us when he was

arrested, what happened to him when he was 13 years old? tala: yes, he was arrested when he was 12 years old, and it was on intent of stabbing in israeli sector. he was in very harsh conditions inside is really prisons. he underwent treatment. he is now facing psychological treatment. he was not on the list of prisoners supposed to be released, because he was over 18. he was under 18, 12 years old, when he was arrested. we are hoping his name will be on the next list of support to be released from israeli prison, but until now, nothing is about

the many prisoners, talking about the prisoners who were released or names that were on the list. one of them is the third-highest sentence of all charge prisoners, mohammed, serving the highest sentence among all the children. we are talking about a woman prisoner who was released, and she is sentenced to 16 years old and is the highest sentence among the woman prisoners. we are talking about injured and ill female prisoners who were released. one of them suffered severe burns all over her body. we are talking about another woman prisoner who was released, who lost the ability to walk. she is paralyzed, for being shot by the occupation forces.

we are also talking about releasing four detainees from women prisons, in addition to nine child detainees, being held under detention without a charge, without a trial, and indefinitely. amy: let's talk about how many palestinians are imprisoned right now, what over 7000, 2000 of them from the west bank, since october 7? tala: not exactly. we are talking about over 7000 palestinian political prisoners inside is really prisons right now, more than 2500 of them are being held under detention. we're talking about after the seventh of october, the number, 80% of the palestinians after the seventh of october are now being held under detention without a charge, without a

trial. after the seventh of october, until this day, we are talking 3260 palestinians detained and is really prisons until this day, so in less than two months, it is more than 3000 palestinians, including 120 female prisoners, including 41 journalists, and let me shed light on something. until this day, we are talking about 112 palestinians in the past three days only. from the beginning, so it is actually equal to the number of released prisoners within that exchange deal, so these are still taking place in all of the cities, villages, refugee camps, and most of them are being held under municipal detention. something important to note

also, six palestinian prisoners were died were killed inside is really prisons in less than a month. -- iisraeli prisons in less than a month. we do not know the circumstances of the debt, because we still do not have the accurate information, but that testimony are prisoners and release, affirm that they were brutally beaten inside the prison. validations may be taking place inside israeli prisons after the seventh of october, and that is what we have documented throughout these two months. amy: another person inside the west bank spoke after she was part of the first group of 39 palestinian detainees to be released. she said since october 7, her family was not allowed to

contact her, after israeli prison authorities launched a brutal crackdown on palestinian prisoners. she said she was in september and placed in jail without charge or trial for an additional period of four months, subject to indefinite detentions, israeli detention policy. four of her sons are also under arrest. >> the female prisoners are in agony. the female prisoners are very upset. they impose enumerating things and all the things that hurt us, but we remain with our heads held high and steadfast, despite this. >> god willing, we will see all the female prisoners into the jails. amy: so that is hanan al-barghouti, who was just released as part of the prison

exchange. i want to put this question to orly noy, how are the prisoners perceive? the way you describe them, we talk about the israeli hostages taken by hamas on october 7. you describe them as hostages of the israeli state, with so many of the not even charged. orly: yeah. i mean, here, i should mention a word about the collaboration of the israeli media with the attempt to portray each and every palestinian behind bars as a terrorist. i mean, this is the one and only term that the israeli media is a soundbite to be palestinian prisoners, and it does not matter what they do.

if it is a child or a grown-up man who did something more severe, they are only seen as terrorists, and the double standards, particularly in that area, is really mind blowing, because the same system that allows every jewish settler, citizen, or soldier or policeman, to walk away after killing palestinians, under the most outrageous circumstances, it's the same system that 312-year-olds -- three 12-year-olds are charged as a dangerous terrorist, and all of a sudden some can kill and whatnot, so they are all seen as terrorists. and one of the most difficult

tasks for a human rights organization is ask us to advocate for the conditions of the palestinian prisoners who, as was mentioned before, which were harshened dramatically since october 7, we have been talking to some people, and we have been hearing heartbreaking testimonies about the conditions of palestinian prisoners, prisons these days, as far away from the public eye and even further away from public interest. amy: so where do you see this going, orly noy? do you see israel, hamas has already agreed to this, extending this truce, for every day that they released 10 hostages? and what about the pressure on netanyahu, where you have thousands of israelis

march into his office and demanding hostages be number one over a military strike on gaza? orly: i think that the question with the pressure after the release of all the civilians, because we should keep in mind that hamas is also holding israeli soldiers, and without a doubt, the price that they will demand for their release is going to be much higher than what we have seen so far. at the same time, again, going back to the role of the israeli media, the media is pushing very hard to renew the war after those exchanges, and netanyahu actually has a very big incentive to carry on the war, because of those demands that you mentioned, because he knows the day after the war, the israel republic is going to hold him accountable for these

catastrophes. at the same time, nobody knows what israel's game plan is, and what is israel's plan for the day after the war, regarding gaza? so all of that, with the given situation in gaza, where, when people, the residents of the already most densely populated states on earth are now squeezed in a smaller area, facing hunger, without clear water to drink, without proper medications, what will be the nature of the next phase of war, should there be one? under those circumstances, i really do not want to even imagine that scenario. amy: we just have 30 seconds left, but i want to ask tala about your knowledge of the number of arrests of people, palestinians in gaza.

in recent days, israel arrested the head of a medical center and mohammed, the head of the al-shashifa hospital, and a poet and writer was taken about 200 others in prison but because of tremendous pressure and outcry from new stations and elsewhere, he was released but the others weren't. tala: yes, so, unfortunately we have no information from the palestinians who have been imprisoned in gaza, to this day. we tried to contact the israeli human rights organizations, trying also to find out the whereabouts and he situations, but right now we do not even though the number of people,

these palestinians, and of course we do not know the circumstances of the arrest. we are also talking about to this day there are approximately 700 missing palestinians who are likely in the occupation prison, but we do not know the accurate information about their conditions. these are from the workers who have been working inside israel, and before the seventh of october, some of that work released, but there are 5700 that are now still missing, and we do not have any information about them. so we are trying and working to know the condition, and what are they going through right now? amy: taloa naser, thank you for being with us, speaking to us from the occupied west bank, and orly noy, israeli political activist,

editor of the hebrew language new site local call, we will link to your new piece for +972 magazine. coming up, we speak to a former palestinian prisoner and a former israeli military commander who together helped found combatants for peace. back in 20 seconds. ♪ ♪ [music break]

amy: "rise sweet waters." this is democracy, democracynow.org, i amy goodman. avner wishnitzer is a co-founder of combatants for peace. avner was a member of sayeret matkal, one of the idf's elite commando units. he is joining us from jerusalem. and sulaiman khatib is a co-founder of combatants for peace. sulaiman spent more than 10 years in prison after an altercation with two israeli soldiers. sulaiman and avner recently co-wrote article for new york review headlined "combatants for peace." sulaiman, let's begin with you. as you see palestinians released from prison in exchange for the israeli hostages and those of other nationalities who have been released, can you talk about your thoughts as a former

man imprisoned yourself? sulaiman: thank you, amy, for having us, myself and avner. we have details about that, the exchange. i definitely feel lots of empathy, particularly the kids, actually, women and kids. i definitely feel optimistic. the organization that exists, definitely combatants for peace, our organization includes

palestinians and israelis, and we would like the israeli government and the hamas in gaza to release the civilians that were taken hostages in gaza. some of them are being held without charge even. as we see, unfortunately, international law has not been granted. i was actually part of a military cause, so i know the separation from the family and being without, typically, i know the meaning of them. amy: what inspires you now to commit your life to peace, as a

co-founder of combatants for peace? sulaiman: so, taking care of prisoners, part of my childhood, i was going through hunger strikes in jail, and that was part of the mission, and through my experience and learning about that, i also, coming from living here, outside of jerusalem, more than 500 years, i have been opening my heart and my soul and my mind, and we reach the same

conclusion, which i told them, normally there are solutions for this conflict, and i feel that. good for migration but collectively connected, despite, of course, what we talk about clearly, i believe that, as i said, our freedom and our need for freedom, for dignity, and for human rights. the strategy as of late, not just lately, but of course, where it is coming from, surveillance or coming from

homicide, whether discreetly or publicly, we are offering a different option with values. without it, we cannot really be safe and blessed in the land where we belong. it does not have to be either/or. we have been in that place, living in harmony, and since i was released from jail, i dedicated my life to bridge that gap. i know this is a long journey. amy: let me bring avner

wishnitzer into the conversation. you are a former member of one of the idf's elite commando units. what inspired you to help found combatants for peace? avner: hi, and thanks for having us. for me, it was the gap between the way i was raised, to believe that israel is a safe haven for the jews, and essentially liberal democracy, and the reality of the occupation, which i have learned to really know up close, only after my service, was at that time in my early 20's, the soldier in that same unit. and what i saw in the early 2000's, around the south and

different places around the west bank, really brought me face to face with the systematic oppression, for which i was only vaguely aware. and it exposed, created a dissonance, the values of israel as a democracy and its backyard, in which none of these values are valid, i could no longer talk the talk and act as if this backyard did not exist. and i refused to serve in the occupied territories in late 2004. then, thinking that it is not an attitude chose to refuse and absolve yourself from this

systematic violence, it is crucial also to struggle against it actively, because you can only refuse once. and at that point, it was early 2005, we were approached by a group of palestinians who were curious about this refusing phenomenon, and then we started meeting, and these meetings led to the formation of combatants for peace. and we have been saying for almost two decades, what we are still saying now, and we insist even more, there is no military solution, it is a fantasy. but a very dangerous fantasy. and we see now the harbor and -- the horror and the fear and the hatred in the west bank, in gaza. what happened on the seventh of

october, the atrocities are unprecedented, and then the israeli attack on gaza, the violence in the west bank, again, unprecedented. but level of violence keeps rising, and the circle of violence just goes on because we are unable to undo the driving forces of this conflict. first and foremost, the occupation is not the only reason, but we believe it is the most important reason for perpetuating this conflict, and this is why we have been struggling against it for so long. amy: and what you think -- avner: there is an alternative, and that is what we are trying to push forward. amy: that's what i want to ask you about, what is the alternative at this point? you have this truth that could end today, unless hamas releases 10 prisoners today, but israel said only up to 10 days, and

they are going to wipe out hamas in gaza. what is the alternative? , avner? avner: the alternative is not in this micro plastic level. sure, we are for the ne release of the hostages. we are for the release of the prisoners. you talked about the prisoners a lot in this program. we are talking about something far more fundamental, a seachange, which means the renewal of talks that would lead to a political, just a political solution. that is agreed on both sides and not of course unilaterally. to support that political process, that is so crucial, because right now, there is no alternative. it is just brute force, and when people -- amy: we have 10 seconds left, but that we will continue the

conversation. avner: when people have said there is no choice but violence, there is only violence to each other. we need to open a political process to end the violence. amy: we want to thank you both for being with us. we will do part two