01/04/24 01/04/24 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> i suddenly felt he burned and my back and i could not move. -- felt deeper in my back and i could not move. amy: no one has claimed responsibility for wednesday's 20 blast in iran that came after

senior hamas leader al-arouri was killed the day before. we will speak with iranian historian arash azizi. then as ukraine and russia exchanged nearly 500 prisoners of war in the largest prisoner swap of the war, russian president vladimir putin is reportedly signaling behind the scenes he is open to a cease-fire. we will go to moscow to speak with nina khrushcheva who says "the west must face reality in ukraine." we will be joined by bishop william barber. he is calling for more awareness and justice for disabled people after he was kicked out of a greenville, north carolina, movie theater on christmas when he went to see "the color purple" with his 90-year-old mother. >> our plans were interrupted when the managers at the amc theater here in green vault

chose to call the police rather than accommodate my visible disability. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. iran is holding a day of mourning after at least 84 people were killed in a pair of explosions in the city of kerman on wednesday. more than 280 people were injured. the blasts occurred near the tomb of the iranian general qasem soleimani where hundreds of iranians had gathered to mark the fourth anniversary of his assassination by the united states. no one has claimed responsibility for the blasts. iran's supreme leader ayatollah ali khamenei has vowed a harsh response. the bombing in iran came just a day after a top hamas official

saleh al-arouri was assassinated outside of beirut, lebanon in a suspected israeli strike. his funeral is being held today. on wednesday, israel also killed nine hezbollah fighters in strikes on southern lebanon. meanwhile, a high-ranking commander from an iranian-backed militia in iraq was killed earlier today in an airstrike in central baghdad. it is unclear who carried out the strike. the events are increasing fears that israel's war on gaza could grow into a regional conflict. on wednesday, hezbollah leader hasan nasrallah said the killing of saleh al-arouri will not unpunished. >> extent of congratulations and condolences to our dear brothers and great leader, deputy leader of hamas's political office, and his fellow leaders in hamas who

were martyred yesterday and a flagrant israeli aggression. amy: in gaza, al jazeera is reporting at least 14 members of the same family have been killed in an israeli bombing west of khan younis. separately, israel has been accused of bombing an area of the jabalia refugee camp where residents gathered to collect water. eyewitness said the blast destroyed surrounding buildings and injured several people. >> it is a catastrophe. it is a massacre. no man can understand what is happening all stop the place was bombed. the place was for water collection. any area that supports people, the israeli's targeted. all water stations in the strip are targeted. amy: in the occupied west bank, israeli forces have detained hundreds of palestinians during a 30-hour military raid on the nur shams refugee camp. meanwhile, the international

court of justice has announced it will hold two days of public hearings beginning on january 11 in response to south africa's case accusing israel of committing genocidal acts in gaza. a senior official in the u.s. department of education has resigned to protest the biden's administration's support for israel's war on gaza. tariq habash, who is a palestinian-american christian, wrote in his resignation letter -- "i cannot stay silent as this administration turns a blind eye to the atrocities committed against innocent palestinian lives, in what leading human rights experts have called a genocidal campaign by the israeli government." tariq habash appeared on cnn on wednesday night. >> there are people throughout the government, throughout this administration who have repeatedly tried to use every avenue available to them to raise concerns because they care about this country, they care about this president, and they care about our democracy. i think what the president is doing by ignoring the will of

the people and ignoring all of these individuals who have continuously supported his agenda, i think it is undermining our democratic ideals and undermining america. amy: he was a biden appointee. in related news, 17 current staffers on biden's re-election campaign have anonymously signed a letter urging the president to support a gaza cease-fire. they wrote, "complicity in the death of over 20,000 palestinians, 8200 of whom are children, simply cannot be justified." meanwhile, in california, hundreds of jewish activists and their allies shut down the california state capitol in sacramento wednesday demanding a cease-fire in gaza. >> [indiscernible]

amy: the united states and 11 other nations issued a joint statement wednesday threatening to take further military action against houthi forces from yemen if they continue to target shipping vessels in the red sea. the statement said in part -- "the houthis will bear the responsibility of the consequences should they continue to threaten lives, the global economy, and free flow of commerce in the region's critical waterways." the houthis, who are aligned with iran, have vowed to keep targeting ships linked to israel until israel stops its attack on gaza. ukraine and russia have exchanged nearly 500 prisoners in the largest prisoner swap since russia invaded ukraine nearly two years ago. 230 ukraine pow's were exchanged for 248 russians. the united arab emirates helped mediate the deal. we will have more on the war in ukraine after headlines. the u.s. justice department has

sued the state of texas over a new state law that empowers police to arrest anyone they suspect of entering the united states without authorization. the law was signed last month by texas republican governor greg abbott. in related news, republican house speaker mike johnson traveled to eagle pass, texas, with about 60 republican members of congress on wednesday. he threatened again to block u.s. funding for the war in ukraine unless the biden administration intensifies its crackdown on immigrants and asylum seekers. >> if president biden wants a supplemental spending focused on national security, it better began by defending america's national security. it begins right here on our southern border. amy: in reproductive rights news, a federal appeals court ruled texas hospitals and emergency room doctors can legally refuse to perform abortions even if needed to save

the life of the patient. the fifth circuit court eschewed federal guidelines for care, siding instead with the state of texas and antiabortion groups, which sued the biden administration for rules it claimed would "force abortion" and override state laws. the center for reproductive rights, which represents providers, said -- "the state's strategy has been to circumvent the court system and the constitution itself in order to push abortion out of reach for as many texans as possible." former harvard president claudine gay, who resigned on tuesday, has revealed she faced death threats and was repeatedly called the n-word in recent weeks as a right-wing effort to oust her intensified over her handling of campus protests and her past academic research. claudine gay had become harvard's first black president just six months ago. she is the daughter of patient immigrants. in an op-ed in "the new york times," she wrote --

"they recycled tired racial stereotypes about black talent and temperament. they pushed a false narrative of indifference and incompetence." she also wrote -- "this was merely a single skirmish in a broader war to unravel public faith in pillars of american society." hundreds of pages of court documents related to the late -- deceased convicted sex trafficker and financier jeffrey epstein have been unsealed. one notable document was a deposition from one of epstein's victims who said prince andrew had groped her at epstein's manhattan apartment. the woman also says she talked about former president bill clinton, "he said one time that clinton likes them young, referring to girls." the deposition also referenced a time when epstein discussed a possible visit with future president donald trump in atlantic city. other notable names mentioned in the unsealed documents include michael jackson, the attorney alan dershowitz, the late former new mexico governor bill richardson, and the magician david copperfield. more documents are expected to be unsealed soon.

and in newark, new jersey, an imam was shot and killed outside his mosque early wednesday morning. hassan sharif was headed to the masjid muhammad mosque for morning prayers. authorities are searching for his killer. new jersey authorities say there is no indication yet that the shooting was motivated by bias or that it was an act of terrorism. the imam had also been attacked outside the mosque in august. the new jersey chapter of the council on american-islamic relations praised hassan sharif as being a "beacon of leadership in his community." and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. iran is observing a national day of mourning as the death toll from twin explosions wednesday has reached 84 with many others injured. the blasts in the central city of kerman killed attendees to a

memorial for top general qasem soleimani, who was assassinated in a u.s. drone strike four years ago in iraq. this is a survivor who was being treated in a nearby hospital. >> i suddenly felt the burn in my back. i could not move. i just remember hearing the sound of an explosion. nermeen: no one has claimed responsibility for the attack but iran has placed blame on israel and the u.s. the white house said the islamic state could be behind the bloody bombings and rejected claims israel or the u.s. was involved. the tragedy comes amid mounting fears that israel's war on gaza could lead to a wider regional conflict. one day before the blasts, a senior hamas leader and iran ally saleh al-arouri was killed in a strike in southern beirut, which lebanese officials blamed on israel.

iraqi had 37 blamed the u.s. led international coalition for an attack. amy: for more, we're joined by arash azizi, iranian historian and writer. his book is titled "the shadow commander: soleimani, the u.s. and iran's global ambitions." his recent piece for the national is headlined "who are the likely suspects in the kerman blasts, and what does this mean for iran?" his forthcoming book, out next , is titled "what iranians want: women, life, freedom." thank you so much for joining as, arash azizi. can you talk about the significance of these two attacks in iran? no one has yet claimed responsibility. >> it is a terrible attack. if you look at the death, although it is being readjusted to lower amount, but still makes it one of the deadliest attacks of its kind in recent history.

they do come at a time in the region when it is tense. there's been a shadow war between iran and israel and israel for many years, but especially the last few months. in the killing of soleimani is very tense because it involves a lot of groups. it is a very tense time and the attack comes at that time. it is true we don't really know -- no one has claimed responsibility. a lot of experts i have spoken to believe the likely culprit, in my opinion, a group based in afghanistan, a group because of the kind of attacks it did with

mass civilian killings, putting the bombs and briefcases, some of them more specific methods used and the targets they picked, this makes them to be the most likely culprit that have committed the attack. nermeen: you have written this book on qassem soleimani. the significance of this attack taking place on the fourth anniversary of his death as people were gathering in his burial place where his body is. why would the islamic state -- what would be the incentive for them to carry out an attack now in the midst, as you say, i've what is going on in gaza, the attack now in kerman taking place a day after al-arouri was assassinated in beirut? why islamic state? >> it is likely they might have

time to the attack long ago. it might also have been more recent. definitely longer than al-arouri 's death. they probably planted a while ago. this group has tried to gain power in afghanistan in recent years. they are also an adversary of the taliban regime, which they see as some sort of -- they have a complicated relationship. iran doesn't officially recognize it as the government of afghanistan. but this group has tried to raise its profile. also, they regard soleimani as a leader of this shia force they consider an enemy. a symbol of sheer islam and islam republic. also a symbol of iran. it would make sense for them to

attack. although i would say the fact they haven't taken responsibility yet does give me a bit of pause because if they did it, why wouldn't he take responsibility for it? there's a possibility there might be other groups. but why haven't they taken responsibility? that is a question a lot of us are asking. the national security council of iran met this morning and after the meeting, the issued a statement -- also sang nato know who committed the attack -- saying they don't know who committed the attack. while the arabian officials -- while the iranian officials condemned, they haven't -- the bodies haven't pointed direct figures as to who would be the perpetrator. they have promised to act

against whoever made the attacks. nermeen: the people killed, about 84, between 80 and 90 people, none of those people were in any way associated with the government, the revolutionary guard? as you have said, when there been attacks perpetrated either by the u.s., israel has carried out many operations in iran, but tend to be targeted against specific people, most notably the series of assassinations of iranian scientists. in this case, who was among the dead? >> they usually target igc officials or nuclear scientists. they have specific targets. in this case, there doesn't seem to be any official so that makes it less likely it was an attack by them. although, not impossible but

less likely. in terms of who were the victims , so far ordinary people, ordinary civilians. a lot of them a have been there to mourn soleimani, but i should say in kerman, i have been to the cemetery many times, there are ordinary people there. many people might have just been going to their mother's grave as is customary on such a day. we see a large number of children among the killed and injured. dozens. which shows the kind of victims. also, first responders who came because of the double blast. the first responders came to help with the victims of the first blast come unfortunately, were killed in the second blast. amy: arash azizi, remind us how

qassem soleimani died and his significance. >> soleimani was killed in a drone strike and general 2020 ordered by president trump -- january 2020, order by president trump. a few years before in the bush administration, trying to kill a hezbollah leader, repeatedly -- just to make sure they don't hit soleimani. easily one of the most powerful men in the middle east. you could easily say he was the most powerful military figure in iran at the time. he was the head of the jerusalem force, the external operations of the irgc. controlled a very large multinational army of afghans, syrians, lebanese all around the region and had commanded and directed islamic republic's

interventions in countries of the region. he was a big significance and a ranking official of a nation. it was sort of highly unusual to assassinate a figure like that in a strike, some people would say, not seen since the second world war with the united states help killed a japanese admiral. of course the official explanation for it was there have been tons of attacks by forces directed by soleimani on u.s. forces and this has been going that even in the last few months, more than 100 attacks by these forces, iraqi forces on u.s. forces. that was one official reason. the other being the irgc was put on the terror group list by the trump administration so they regarded soleimani as having a

double role, uniformed official of iran but at the same time a leading figure in what they considered a terror organization. amy: let me ask you about a man who right around christmas, an israeli airstrike killed a senior advisor of the iran revolutionary guard. the sources told reuters the advisor was responsible for coordinating a military alliance between syria and iran and apparently he was with qassem soleimani when soleimani was killed and now he has been killed. >> he was perhaps, i would say, easily the most important -- definitely one of the top three irgc officials in syria. he has been in syria a very long time.

people know him in damascus. he played an important role in the syrian civil war. he helped kill thousands of his own civilians. even years before, he effectively has been based in syria and's the 1990's -- since the 1990's. his wife taught at the iranian school in damascus. in the aftermath of the syrian revolution all about the civil war in 2011, 2012, he became this old guy who could help everybody else there because he has been there such a long time. his assassination was very important. it signaled israel and the u.s. probably sort of targeting a high value target in damascus, which really escalates things

given the conditions that we are in. and possibly points to israel having something like what it did in the aftermath of the 1970's of the attacks, the aftermath of that israel wrath of god which killed a lot of leaders of groups that were in some way or the other linked to the terror attacks. the killing of this man and others might show israel had a similar quest. amy: arash azizi, thank you for being with us, iranian historian and writer. this book "the shadow commander: , soleimani, the u.s. and iran's global ambitions." we will lead to your piece in the national "who are the likely , suspects in the kerman blasts, and what does this mean for iran?" his forthcoming book, out next month, "what iranians want: women, life, freedom." he is speaking to us from charlotte, north carolina.

next up, as ukraine and russia have the largest prisoner for exchange since russia invaded ukraine to the russian president is reportedly signaling behind the scenes he is open to a cease-fire. we will go to moscow to speak with nina khrushcheva who says "the west must face reality in ukraine." stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: "sometimes i feel so lonely" by primal scream. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: on wednesday, ukraine and russia exchanged nearly 500 prisoners in the largest prisoner swap since russia invaded ukraine nearly two years ago. 230 ukrainian prisoners were exchanged for 248 russians. the united arab emirates helped mediate the deal. this comes after ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy said russia fired 500 missiles and drones against ukraine in just five days. zelenskyy spoke tuesday night. >> since the beginning of today,

there have been almost 100 missiles of various types and the trajectories have been specifically calculated by the enemy to cost as much damage as possible. this is absolutely conscious terror. nermeen: meanwhile, russian president vladimir putin vowed to intensify attacks inside ukraine after a ukrainian attack on the russian city of belgorod killed at least 25 people, including five children, on saturday. he spoke during a meeting with wounded soldiers at a military hospital in moscow. >> we want to end the conflict as quickly as possible, only on our terms. we're not going to give up our position, either. amy: last month, "the new york times" reported putin has been signaling through his two meteors behind the scenes -- intermediaries behind the scenes that he's open to a cease-fire in ukraine. for more, we are joined in

moscow by nina khrushcheva, professor of international affairs at the new school. she is the great-granddaughter of former soviet premier nikita khrushchev. she is the author of "the lost khrushchev: journey into the gulag of the russian mind" and co-author of "in putin's footsteps: searching for the soul of an empire across russia's eleven time zones." her recent article for project-syndicate is titled "the west must face reality in ukraine." professor, welcome back to democracy now! let's start off with the last week. putin's intensifying attacks on ukraine, more than he ever has since the beginning of the war, yet we get behind the scenes, "the new york times" is reporting he is signaling that he is interested in a cease-fire. then you this largest prisoner for swap since the war began. put it all together for us. >> this is not connected incidents, i would say. the attacks on ukraine, the largest since the beginning,

also in some ways follow the very large attack were attacks in the last week come to last weeks on the russian territory because ukrainian forces also have been shooting i think one day it was 300 missiles. it has been going on come escalating. the reason it has been happening is we heard so much that ukrainian counteroffensive did not work out as was hoped. the aid from the united states somewhat stalling. ukraine was showing it is fighting. so as putin always does, the russians fight back. that is what we have been seeing most of as far as "the new york times" reporting on signaling negotiations, that is not how we see it here. because they need some signs and weeks but putin has been quite

clear on this from the beginning -- actually, from the beginning that russia is going to achieve all his goals. so russia is, especially now when russian forces are holding some territories, some ukraine was able to take back but a lot of it russia is holding. so that is the reality on the ground. he has been talking about, yes, he always gives the signal -- as long as you are able to negotiate on my terms, i am willing. as for the prisoner exchange, for a while that has not been going on but this particular part of the war because 2014 when russia annexed crimea there was some military action, this time the prisoner exchange has been going infinitely better. they were really trying on that front to keep with the war -- with the war rules.

nermeen: professor, if you could say more about the prisoner of war exchange, how important it is because, apparently, i don't know how much is known about how many russian prisoners of war are in ukraine, but there are reportedly thousands of ukrainian soldiers still in russian captivity. and if you could say what is the position of the russian military now? there are some reports that suggest a large number of the fighting forces pre-invasion fighting forces have been wounded were killed and now the mean people who are fighting in ukraine are former convex and people who have been drafted who are not very well trained. is that correct? >> it is not entirely correct. we don't know how many thousands on each side -- there always

prisoner exchange. i am not a war expert but i am saying prisoner exchange is political manipulation. you give some and take some. this is the largest one. what i am reading, i think 245 and 75 of them were not even negotiated this somehow ukrainians gave them back. this is for a number of prisoners. you may remember there was this battalion associated with heart nationalist ukrainian force and there was a lot of arguments whether they should go free or not. apparently, some of these people have been released from the russian side. this is what we are hearing. also, in december there was a

lot of top the new year is coming and it is important so we really have to have good faith. as for those who fight in ukraine, of course there is a tremendous amount of casualties. we don't know how many, but a tremendous amount. what the kremlin sort of figured out somehow is that it is not the conscript so there are people who voluntarily fight. and many of those who come in voluntarily fighting, they did have some military training. then there is this we spoke about in the summer during the that you pervert who was first -- you get new he came up with they'ved fight and that is how they

become regular citizens, so to speak. a lot of them are in the army. regular russians are very unhappy about that because a lot of those people come back and commit violent crimes. at the same time, it allows regular people also not to go and fight and that is how putin has been able to keep the semblance of the nuance of the country but not really the country at war. nermeen: professor, if you could talk about what conditions are like within russia in terms of both how the war is being perceived there, what ultimately the affect of the sanctions has been, what evidence you see of the effect of the sanctions today in russia and the fact the majority of people there, according to polls, do not support the war and yet putin has over 80% approval ratings still. speak specifically, and one of

your pieces you talked about this rural urban divide, how the war is viewed in st. petersburg, moscow, as opposed to elsewhere in the country. if you could talk about that? >> it's a tale of two russia's. in the cities, people try to stay away pretend it doesn't happen despite all of the billboards and volunteer places where you can go and sign up in the piece you mentioned, you go into a bookstore and all of those people who are foreign agents, the one who have been branded as foreign agents because they have not been supporting the war, the writers. their books are available. all of this sanctioned chips and mars bars or something come all of this is available. you would not even know there is war.

then you go deeper into cities. in siberia, not very deep in siberia, but far enough, in villages, all of a sudden, popping up because the widows or those who are women who send their sons and husbands to war got a lot of money. it is something -- that is how the army now functions. the people are being paid off. these are poor regions. and now suddenly, they have money. they can go on vacation. they can have summer trips. so this is the dividing -- russia has always had this split personality, this schizophrenia, but now it is visible more than ever.

people pretend it is far away because they cannot stop it. but in smaller towns, the people are for putin -- they're not for war, but they are, let's show the west we are not going to surrender and whatnot. 80% is not a regular figure but i would say 60% is the support. 56% want negotiations now because they feel russia for two years withstood the sanctions, figured out how to move on because sanctions are not that visible except with inflation and prices. but other than that, they feel now russia can end the war on stronger terms. amy: the title of your piece, "the west must face reality in ukraine." if you can talk about what that is, what we are not understanding, particularly in the united states, and how this leads into the elections in march? >> elections in march, when

putin is going to become president again? yes. joe biden declared he is going to strategically defeat putin because he cannot withstand the war. that has proven otherwise. in the piece, when the whole world is on russia, going to take russia down, russia sort of figures out how to do these things. so the quick victory as biden promised over russia is not going to happen. i don't see how russia can be defeated in this war. it is a country of 11 time zones. i suggest one day there has to be some sort of scaling back this grand idea of defeating russia and figuring out how to actually end this war in ukraine and go on punishing russia if you want, but the war should not be part of that strategic agenda

for the united states. amy: nina khrushcheva, thank you for being with us professor of , international affairs at the new school. we will into your piece "the west must face reality in ukraine." next up, we stick with civil rights leader bishop william barber who is calling for more awareness and justice for disabled people after he was kicked out of a north carolina movie theater when he went to see "the color purple" with his 90-year-old mother. why did the amc call the police when he put out his special chair to accommodate his disability? stay with us. ♪ [music break]

amy: the cast of the movie "the color purple" singing the theme song. the movie is based on alice walker's pullets are prize-winning novel. she was the first african-american woman to

win the nobel -- the pulitzer prize for fiction. this is democracy now! i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. we end today's show with civil rights leader bishop william barber, who is calling for more awareness and justice for disabled people following his ouster from a greenville, north carolina, movie on christmas week. he said amc staff confronted him over his use of a specialized chair he carries with him and needs to use due to an arthritic condition he has had for decades. the reverend was attending a screening, the premier of "the color purple" with his 90-year-old mother. the new musical adaptation of alice walker's pulitzer prize-winning novel had the second-biggest christmas day opening of all time. some of the original 1985 elm was shot in north carolina. it features the north carolina actor fantasia taylor as seely. bishop barber says when he tried

to use his chair in the theater's disabled section, the staff refused to allow him to do. instead, they called the police to have him removed. two officers arrived and escorted him out of the theater as the trailers played. bishop barber shared with us a video of the incident. this is part of it. >> i'm going to take you out. >> i cannot go out. >> [indiscernible] that is what i want to do. >> i do it all the time. i have been on broadway. i've been at the white house with this chair. they called an officer of the law. nermeen: so that was bishop barber being escorted out of the theater last tuesday, the day after christmas. he says his removal was a violation of the 1990 americans with disabilities act. amc theater released a statement that the company apologized to barber and his family, and amc chairman and ceo adam aron met with barber this week. we'll ask him about that meeting in a minute. but first, i want to turn to

bishop barber's press conference from friday when he shared with the world what happened to him when he took his 90-year-old mother to see the "the color purple." >> this week was going to be our time of reminiscing, knowing this would be a one's in a lifetime opportunity. a movie doesn't state in the theater forever. it won't be in the theater next christmas. this was a once-in-a-lifetime thing. the original plan was to see the movie on christmas day, but then we chose the matinee. truthfully, i know so many people are there and she is slower now, i am slow. i asked her if she would mind doing the matinee, not in the evening would most people come, but 1:00, to a, 3:00.

on saturday, we're having a major celebration of her birthday. she was born in november. on saturday, in piney woods, one of the few free communities that was always with free black folk, native americans and eastern north carolina, and on that day we are going to saying. she said she wanted everyone in the community to come free. free food, free music. the governor has decided to give her the order for her years of service in this state. so this was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. this week was planned out. see the movie this week at this time, enjoy the reminiscing, and

then on saturday to have this big gathering at home, outside. then i had to get back on the road because i have to preach on sunday evening for national watch night service in salem. excuse me. but our plans were interrupted when the managers of the amc theater here in green vault -- greenville chose to call the police rather than accommodate my visible disability. for more than 30 years now, i have suffered from a form of arthritis that is rare but one of the most dangerous forms, debilitating forms. all you just see me doing is pushing on through.

i walk now with two canes. i have to carry a high chair with me everywhere i go because my hip is fused, part of my neck and spine, and i cannot bend to sit in a low chair nor rise from a low position. amy: for more, we are joined by bishop barber, joining us today from indianapolis, indiana, because he always is on the road. president and senior lecturer at repairers of the breach and founding director of the center for public theology & public policy at yale divinity school. bishop barber, welcome back to democracy now! under these terrible circumstances in always. you just met with the head of the amc, the largest movie chain in the world. can you talk more about what happened?

you are about to celebrate your mother's 90th burke day -- 90th birthday and the managers, and called the armed police and security guard to haul you out because you have a chair you've sat in everywhere from the white house to a prison cell? >> yes, amy. it is quite absurd and tragic not just for me but what continues to happen to persons with disability. the ada came about because people refused to move and were arrested and all kinds of things happened to them. three officers, one security guard and two police with guns -- the police treated me better than the managers. i am not ashamed of having disability. in the bible, moses had a disability, jesus was equated with sorrow. in history, a lot of people have

had disabilities, fanny crosby and isaac watts had pain all of his life. roosevelt who had polio. john kennedy who was ailing. the list goes on and on. but i am ashamed of going to a place in my own hometown and basically being stopped at the door and being told that my chair -- not where i placed it. i have been in the same theaters before. from the vatican to the white house to prisons with this chair. the chair was not going to be allowed. it was. were you placed it. i always choose theaters that have the handicap cut out areas where you put wheelchairs, especially cut out area where they put no other chairs. being told by the person, well, go get a doctor's note and come back.

as though getting a doctor's note -- if it was a violation or hazard, why would a doctor's note change that? or being told, we know you are but you're still not going to come in here with this chair. and for them to call the police? i had my right to challenge them. this loud, boisterous, big black man i guess. they want to be arrested for trespassing. when the officers came to suggest to move me or arrest me, -- i was not going to disrupt everyone else's day. i think about all of the other people in the world, people who don't get public accommodations because of their fear. the law says you have to reasonably accommodate -- e have to try to accommodate. there was no attempt to accommodate. there was a "no, period, end of

story you're not coming in" in my own hometown. antisemitism, homophobia, five her voting rights, fiber living rages fight for health care, that they would choose to fight me, fight somebody who has a simple disability and saying no to be going in and watching a movie about triumph and family which is why my mother wanted to see it on that day. she is 90. i don't know how long she will be with us. her question was, why? she fought for openness and civil rights. it doesn't matter what color the persons are. they said, should have called in advance. the law does not say that you have to call in advance. the fact of the matter is, we did. we purchased seats in advanced and made sure it was a handicapped area.

it is quite absurd and tragic. that is why we have to fight. it is about the millions and lines of people, some never come out because they are afraid something like this might happen to them. nermeen: if you can give us a little history lesson on the american disabilities act, its origins and what it has made possible for people across the country. >> it tracks the civil rights act of 1964, equal protection under the law. it was bipartisan. george bush sr. signed it in the 1990's. basically, people had to sit down and restaurants, had to refuse to move, had to bring whatever they used to be mobile, whatever they used to be accommodated, and they were arrested -- sometimes beaten and

kicked out and spit on. they basically said, we are not going to be denied. what the law says is a public business -- theaters are included in that -- anything public, have to accommodate reasonable people. you cannot keep them from enjoying what the rest of the public enjoys simply because they have some form of a disability. there have been some tragic stories some years ago, i man with down syndrome was arrested and killed at the theater. he suffocated. all because these people did not want to recognize his disability. amy: bishop barber, why did you decide to leave with the police? can you talk about what they threatened to do, this day, the holiday? "the color purple was quote blue

other movies out of the waters, opened on christmas day, was filmed where you were in north carolina in the state of north carolina. they were going to clear out the theater if you insisted on staying? >> the managers were insisting -- the manager said trespassing. the police had to get involved. amy: they were going to charge you trespassing? >> trespassing. after i paid to be there. they said because i debated them. they described debating -- if you are upset or angry or or,

and somehow that is what made them so father that they want to be out, they want to be arrested for trespassing. the police did not even want to be there but what they said is, if you don't leave, we will have to clear this theater in order to arrest you. i said, if you take out, i will go with you but what the police did when they got me out, they left. they did not even try to stay. they said, we don't really want to be here. now, we were sitting on the outside and a tv news station came and we were talking to them. this manager came out with the security guard sang we had to leave. i could not even wait on my mother. i had to leave her in the theater. a young girl, who also has a disability, she has epilepsy, and her mother, they would not let me stay there and then when we were leaving, a taunting

wave. amy: schip barbara, you met with the amc ceo adam aron who came to grenfell -- greenville to meet with you. what were your demands of him? >> i can tell you we did not come to resolution. we had a beginning conversation and we agreed things need to be changed. he gave an apology. it is about me but it is bigger than me. if you will touch me, who else will be affected? we agreed to a second meeting. hopefully, we can get down two kinds of solutions that need to be happen to be quantified and measured. this is a serious business. very serious business. it is about the law. it is about fundamental rights. i was glad he came to.

well i agreed to confidentiality, even my sins is he was seeing some distorted facts that i had to correct him. but of the things is very clear, when i finally went into -- they were not even want to let me go into the theater to access where i could sit or what could be accommodated. when i went, i deliberately chose a cut out area that says "handicapped," designed or a wheelchair and was in a position to make sure it wasn't bothering anyone. i have enough sense to know you cannot sit something in the isle. i sat my chair where i have set in broadway and other theaters. then they brought the police. part of the day was clarifying for him -- hopefully, we have

another conversation. we will see after that where we are. we cannot let this go because it is too important to too many people. i think about the people who every day say, i would go but i will just stay home. i will just stay home. nermeen: if you could talk about how you have used your own experience, your own health issues to draw attention to the lack of adequate health care for a lot of americans? >> yeah certain empathy -- you have a certain empathy. i have health care about their 87 million people in this country that don't have insurance. i have some resources to even buy a chair or see a doctor, but what about the 400 plus million people that are poor and low well -- low weath? i think your pain and love is

supposed to make you were committed to standing with others and to challenging systems of injustice. pain should bring a certain empathy and certain kind of coverage. any time of day i want to quit or just stop, look at people in even worse situations. you cannot stop simply because you have a challenge. the fact of the matter is, historically, some of the people with the greatest challenge -- one of our greatest presidents had polio. today probably could not get access because people would be -- could not get elected because people would be focused more on his chair that his mind stop some people today would not want someone with a serious disability like polio. amy: bishop barber, we have to break that we are going to continue our discussion with you. did you ever get to see "the

color purple"? >> no. amy: bishop william barber, president and senior lecturer at repairers of the breach and founding director of the center for public theology & public policy at yale divinity school. in our post-show at democracynow.org, we will ask you about your piece