welcome as sports heroes. as for the best new thing in the world today, real live members of team usa are going to be on this show tomorrow night! we just got confirmation late this afternoon. i'm so psyched i'm going to die. that does it for us tonight. now it's time for "the ed show." have a great night. >> good evening, americans, and welcome to the ed show tonight from new york. sam steiner of the huffington post reported that the senate may vote on mcconnell's compromise plan as early as this week. that would mean republicans get big spending cuts in exchange for zero tax increases. the president vowed that that wouldn't happen. tonight let's be an honest broker and make sure he keeps his word. >> i do not see a path to a deal if they don't budge, period. >> president obama drew a line on taxes last week.

republicans are running out the clock, and it looks like the president is caving. senator sheldon whitehouse is here. one of the key figures in the news corporate fox hacking scandal is found dead, and there's more trouble in the united states for rupert murdoch. filmmaker robert greenwall on the latest. in psycho talk tonight. >> yes, they have the right to do that. that's not discriminating based upon religion against their particular religion. >> republican presidential hopeful herman cain has a warped understanding of the constitution. more anti-islam remarks from the godfather's pizza man. tonight, he's attacking another candidate on his religion. remember last week everybody was saying, well, the president is in such a good place right now. really? folks, as liberals we need to prepare ourselves, i think, for the big cave. it could be on the way. the president said he wouldn't agree. he would not agree to cut to the

big three unless republicans were going to put revenues on the table. he was asked about it last week. >> did you see any deal if they don't budge on taxes? >> i do not see a path to a deal if they don't budge, period. i mean, if the basic proposition is it's my way or the highway, then we're probably not going to get something done because we have divided government. we have democrats controlling the senate. we probably are going to need democratic votes in the house for any package that could possibly pass. so if, in fact, mitch mcconnell and john boehner are sincere and i believe they are that they don't want to see the u.s. government default, then they have to compromise just like democrats are going to have to compromise, just like i have shown myself willing to compromise. >> you know, folks, you got to go back to the early part of that sound bite. the word "probably" is awfully

vague. we probably won't get a deal done. that leaves the president a big gap. basers out there, prepare yourselves. the president, okay, he's compromised to the tune of $4 trillion. he's put that fat package on the table. mcconnell and boehner won't raise taxes. senator minority whip jon kyl drew the line in the sand on sunday. >> nervounless the president gef his absolute obsession with raising taxes, republicans won't do anything to harm our economy. job-killing taxes harm our economy. there will not be a default. as to whether or not we can achieve savings in the process dpentding on the president. >> i did not hear the world probably. i heard the word not. republicans would rather see the markets crash, unemployment go through the roof and americans in bread lines before they raise one damn dime in taxes. when it comes to the debt crisis, republicans are only

interested in playing rush roulette with the stupid catchphrases. >> let's let the american people decide if they want like cutting spends, capping the growth in government and requiring a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. let's have a national debate. >> to cut cap and balance plan in the house. >> cut the deficit, put a straitjacket on it and balance the budget, the cut, cap and balance. >> i want to make sure we cut spending here in washington. i want to make smur we have a cap on the amount of spending we do, and i want to have a balanced budget amendment. >> did they just talk better? republicans want to cut middle class to the bone and cap any chance for working people to attain the american dream. the balance parts of their plan is the real devil in the details. republicans want to change the constitution so they can dodge any blame on balancing the budget. this bill is a dream come true for tea party king maker jim

demint. >> to have any kind of permanent reform, we send to the states a constitutional amendment that would force congress to balance the budget. let's let the states and the american people decide. >> yeah, let's let the american people decide, right? demint and the tea party, see, they love the constitution. they always want to change it, and in order to change the constitution, republicans need to have two-third majority in the senate. senator coburn thinks he has the american people on his side. >> why in the world aren't there votes for the balanced budget in the u.s. senate? that's the question americans ought to ask. 67 votes to live within means. i think the american people would like to see us do that. >> damn, they're good at telling us how we think, aren't they? coburn is totally wrong. according to a new fox news poll, the american people they love the quote overwhelmingly

reject a balanced budget amendment with cuts to the big three. medicare, medicaid and social security. according to a brand new cbs news poll, 71% of the american people reject the republicans handling of debt negotiations. today the president threatened to veto cut, cap and balance if it it reaches his desk. speaker boehner quickly fired off this written statement. this unfortunate veto threat should make it clear that the issue is not congressional inaction but rather the president's unwillingness to cut spending and return the future growth of our government. now, the president needs to veto every republican bill that reaches his desk if it does not include a tax increase. that's if we want to save the big three. of course, now including the mcconnell plan. so where are we? back to zero i think. mitch mcconnell and harry reid

have been behind closed doors to devise an escape hatch to get a deal done before august 2nd. according to the "washington post" the plan would put the burden on president obama and the democrats to raise the debt ceiling three more times before the 2012 election, and, of course, give the republicans $1.5 trillion in cuts. there would be no tax increase in the deal. so let's go back to the question president obama was asked last week. >> do you see deal if they don't budge on taxes? >> i do not see a path to a deal if they don't budge, period. >> if they don't budge. the majority of americans want the rich to chip in more tax dollars. the stakes are awful high right now, but as i see it there's no better time for the president to stand strong. why? because he has the people on his side. although i'm afraid the president will cave. i think the cave is coming. he did it it on the public option. i'm not trying to open up an old

wound, he did it on the extension of the bush tax cuts because he wanted to save the middle class and help out the job creators. where are we now? how long is this go to go on? don't we need liberal leadership in this country to stand up for the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker? we're going to take it out of them again? we're going to end up with a deal, folks, that's going after social security and medicare and medicaid, and there won't be any tax increases and it it wouldn't surprise me if we have to vote on the debt ceiling three more times before the election. i think the president at this point, whereas he is probably talking tough, i think he's willing to go out on the campaign trail right now and say, all right. you saw how bad those guys were. is that how you want the country run? in the meantime they've already switched the subject talking about the balanced budget amendment? nobody was talking about that last week. so it's in all of this.

my advice is talk to the american people in the pressroom from the white house every single day. not once a week, not twice a week. maybe twice on sunday. just drill it in the minds of the american people over and over again that we can't do this unless we have a tax increase. apparently the poll numbers right now aren't affecting the white house. these negotiations are going on. really? harry and mcconnell, harry reid and mitch mcconnell are behind closed doors coming up with a deal that talks about $1.35 trillion in cuts which the president said is too small and there's no revenue increases and we're going to have to vote on this three times before the next election? tell me, where's the democratic victory? where's the victory for the working folk of american? we're going to end up serving it it up again. well, i misspoke.

i'm not in the middle class anymore. i just try to speak for them. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, do you think president obama should cave on tax increases, maybe take that off the table. text a for yes and text b for no to 622639. you can go to the blog at he had.msnbc.com. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. there are some in congress that stand strong for the middle class. tonight joining us is senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island. good to have you with us tonight. your thoughts where we are right now as we seem to be turning the hourglass when it comes to momentum. your thoughts, senator. >> i think that the momentum is with the president. i think that he's got a chance to capitalize on that momentum to be a little bit less about the process and about who should eat their peas and a little bit more about the fact that the republican party and its current

guise in washington has decided it's willing to endanger the country and endanger our economy, it's willing to put our economic recovery and jobs at risk all to protect special loopholes for special interests. i think that's a winning case. i think the public will be behind him, and as long as we're prepared to stand strong and protect social security and medicare with the president making the case for us, i think this could be a strong moment to get through this deadlock and get the american people a little bit out there, you know, on their phones calling in and beginning to call the republicans on their unwillingness to compromise about one single loophole. name one tax loophole. >> senator, no matter how many phone calls are made and no matter how many polls are taken, it seems like the republicans simply are not, are not in any way, shape or form going to agree to any kind of revenue increase. do you see it that way? do you actually think they will say, okay, we'll pay more?

what do you think? >> i think at some point they're going to have to. the business community, the banks, the insurance companies, the folks who do a lot of the funding of their efforts, they really can't afford the kind of economic damage that crashing through the debt limit would cause. >> okay. now, sam from the huffington post is reporting tonight that the democratic senate leadership is preparing to introduce a compromise on the debt ceiling to the floor as early as before the end of this week, which, of course, is big, friday is the big date, the 22nd. will you vote for cuts to the big three without revenue increases? >> i'm completely opposed to cuts to social security and to medicare benefits. they're completely unnecessary. anybody who feels the way i do can go to no social security

cuts.com and register or vote, join up, let your voice be heard. i think we need to stand strong. >> so you can sit here tonight that you will not vote for cuts in the big three unless it has revenue increases, correct? >> i think that we need to take this right to the brink, and i'm not going to make any hard pledges. i think part of the problem here in washington has been that the republicans have had so many hard pledges they've painted themselves into a corner. i think the american people are onto them, and i think it's very important that the president come in and begin to take sides, because there's a real difference here between what we're fighting for, which is the democratic budget is even between revenues and spending cuts. $2 trillion in spending cuts we've offered, and the republicans won't budge.

there's not a single tax loophole or a single earmark in the tax code they're willing to deal on. we have to come together and put the pressure on. >> good to have you with us tonight. for more let's go to joan walsh, editor at large salon.com and "washington post" columnist e.j. dijon. he's a senior fellow at the brookings institution. e.j., the office of management and budget has come out and weighed in against cut, cap and trade saying that neither setting arbitrary spending levels nor amending the constitution is necessary to restore fiscal responsibility. your thoughts on this. you've written extensively about it. what do you think? >> i think the so-called balanced budget amendment, because it's not even that, is one of the most dishonest pieces of legislation to come along. i know that saying something here in washington, it's a way of cutting your big three and a

lot of other programs without actually doing it. if you'll forgive the harry potter metaphor it throws a cloak over the cuts, but if wants to limit federal spending to 18% of gdp. first of all, since when is gdp a constitutional principle? in fact, it would probably be less than that if if it were calculated on the previous year, because you don't know what gdp would be the next year. that would be 16%. that would require incredible cuts. meanwhile, it will virtually lock in the low taxes on the wealthy that were passed under president bush. >> there's no doubt it's a scheme. this budget balance amendment is a hood wink and a diversion. joan, will the president do a deal without revenue increases? will he have to go back to what he would really like not to do? >> i really hope not, ed. i see the things lining up that you see, but i also see -- i heard more firmness in that promise last week maybe than you

did. i'm also seeing, you know, we're in a situation now that you know very well where this new crop of republican true believers, tea petitioners and this freshman class, they have done an amazing thing. you have to hand it to them. they have pulled the discourse so far to the right so immediately as a minority it is stunning. so now we're sitting here, and we've now got a whole new occasion in washington. the debt ceiling is a time you can hold people hostage. we've got a balanced budget amendment on the table. if democrats go over to the left -- to the right, to the right, to the right, the country is going to be ruined. i'm happy to hear senator whitehouse talk about standing up, and i think it has to come from house democrats. i don't think it can all be about president obama. >> senator whitehouse also said he would not commit to vote a certain ways. the absolutes are not being found on the democratic side. that brings me to what kind of

cuts are we really talking about? e.j., 1.5 trillion. if that's the number, will the president go along with that? if he does, does he look weak? >> i think all along the sort of underlying assumption of these conversations was that if there were no revenue increases, tax increases there wouldn't be any serious cuts to the health programs meaning medicare or medicaid. can you get to a number like 1.5 trillion without any cuts in those programs? i'd like to see what the actual numbers are. i don't think there's going to be any social security in this plan. i think if the administration agrees to anything like this, they're going to do it in part because they want control over when these cuts happen, and i think their objective is to push them out forward so you don't have terrible cuts while we're still in the middle of this terrible unemployment in the country. i think that's part of the

negotiations. >> we're in a jobs crisis. no question about it. if we're in a job crisis and he offers up trillions of dollars in cuts to people on fixed incomes, joan walsh, how does the president survive that climate? >> i don't know. we've got a jobs crisis and a demand crisis, and when you cut government spending you cut demand. it feels like it makes the president's -- it digs the hole deeper for him. it doesn't seem like a solution. if his primary goal and his primary value is appearing like the most reasonable man at the table, the only grown-up, all those cliches we hear he sees a deal as a win because it setds him up as the person that did the deal and compromised. >> i'd like you to agree with me tonight, you don't have a deal until you have a deal in that town. we can talk who has the upper hand. i mean, it takes money to buy whiskey where i come from, and i'm telling you it's hard to get a deal with the republicans because i don't think they're

going to serve up a dime. great to have you both with us tonight. thanks so much. remember to answer tonight's question at the bolt tom of the skrin. comes up, just what is the tea party hopes to get out of these debt ceiling talks? rupert murdoch's future hinges on his testimony to parliament tomorrow. we'll tell you how and why the phone hacking scandal is nothing new for a company that uses al capone as a role model for its sales people. the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done. open an account today and put schwab mobile to work for you.

when word got out, people began racing for the opportunity to fill out an application for housing assistance. >> was that america? you bet it was. as political maneuvering and thee tricks are at a new low in washington, d.c., that was the scene in dallas, texas. it's a reminder of how bad things have gotten for the working poor in this country. thousands risked being trampled to death for a chance at federal housing assistance. for a chance to get on the waiting list for federal housing assistance with only 100 vouchers available, this young woman hopes she's one of the

lucky few. >> i'm a student working three jobs so i would definitely need help with my rent. >> well, if the republicans get their way and obama caves on these debt ceiling talks, this kind of human stampede, we have to ask, is this common place? while the rich get off scot-free? up next, reaction from the tea party and the latest deal talks and ezra kline of the "washington post" says mcconnell and his pals have just about won the war.

welcome back to "the ed

show." we're still waiting as the house prepares for a vote tomorrow and the republicans cut, cap and balance plan. now the country has lost out on hundreds of billions in revenue since the great recession in 2007. what other factors led our debt to increase to 9 trillion over the past ten years are pretty basic. well, bush led us into war, and look what happened. that, of course, is just the start of it all. he expended medicare without paying for it. he also helped to broker the bank bailout to help jump start the economy. after that mess president obama signed an $800 billion stimulus. the biggest culprit is the bush tax cuts costing this country $1.6 trillion. we were told these cuts were essential to creating jobs, but during bush's eight years in office there were 3 million jobs

created. let's bring in ezra kline. you can catch him tomorrow filling in for martin bashir on msnbc. ezra, first to you. you write that the republicans are positioned to get the best deal out of this. i'm starting to feel that way. that's why i led the show talking about it tonight. your thoughts on it. why are they positioned well? >> they have the timing and stub stance down. they wanted two things in the last couple of weeks. they didn't know it initially. they needed a series of small deals, because a big deal has taxes in it. they don't want taxes. a series of small deals keeps obama from getting everybody in the room, keeps any political been at this time to strike a grand bargain and keep them from tacking on stimulus or any additives on the deal and keeps him from achieving goals. it's an odd thing because the last election was all about the deficit, but they're in worse shape to reduce the deficit than a series of small deals over the

next year or two. >> mr. phillips, will the tea partiers hold the line and not vote for a debt ceiling increase no matter what the package is? let's say you have big spending cuts. let's say you don't have any revenue increases. do you think the tea partiers in the house would vote to raise the debt ceiling or hold the line? >> i think they're going to hold the line. you know, we've got hundreds of billions of dollars in just simple waste and fraud in the government that nobody is even addressing. we have spending out of control. we have a debt crisis because we had a spending crisis. the politicians up in washington went on a spending spree that would put the"desperate housewives" of beverly hills to shame. >> you tell us the debt ceiling won't get raised? there isn't package the tea partiers would agree to unless ilts holding the line on the debt ceiling and we default on our bills.

>> default is not all the makt. it's running up the limit on your credit cards. >> it wouldn't affect the credit? they say this will hurt the credit of the united states big-time, and it's going to hurt interest rates, unemployment will rise? you don't believe any of that? >> if we keep paying it, service on the debt right now is only about 6%. we can still service the budget even with the budget cuts. >> i'm going to take you for face value. let's say you're exactly right, mr. phillips. ezra, how does that play out? >> it's not right. we can't go through it that way because if you do it like he's talking about, he's right we could pay off the interest on the debt. we will lose $154 billion in that month. that is a blow of 10% of august gdp. that is a new recession. >> very well put, but how they vote is how they vote. essayihe is saying there's no w

tea party will go along with raising the debt ceiling. even if they get the no raising in revenues and spending cuts in a big package, the pea partiers say i'm not going to do it. >> everybody expects boehner will lose 60 to 850 people on the vote. he has to get a bunch of democrats in there with him, and when you hear the democrats talk this is a good deal for you. i can comment on it this morning, and he said it's a terrible deal. you have a lot of democrats holding their nose walking over to the other side not using the leverage they have in order to avert crisis. that is how you get it through if the tea party doesn't step up. >> mr. phillips, the tea party sounds right now like there really are no negotiations for them. it's their way or the highway, correct? >> well, you know, we won the last election. look what happened in the house of representatives. john boehner but for the tea party would not be a speaker of the house.

you know, there's nothing else. they said they weren't going to raise the debt ceiling. they were going to cut the spending chgt when is the last time we had politicians that kept promises? it's almost unheard of. >> what do you think. >> it isn't a good thing to crash the economy. they promised to cut spending and there's getting an opportunity to do it. the deal on the table was $3 trillion for spending cuts for 1 trillion in tax increases. all taxes were tax expenditures with guys like alex greenspan and milton friedman called spending. spending in the tax code and an opportunity and it was still an opportunity to cut spending dra drastically. it doesn't shrink government or preventing spending but any tax increase on anyone at any time. >> would you go so far as to say

tonight it doesn't look good for the president to get a revenue increase from the top 1% or 2%? >> no good at all. there's no chance of it it in this part of the deal. >> to make cuts, to hit the middle class, how does he work his way out of that? right now this is a victory for the tea party, the way this is coming down? >> if he wants revenues, all he has to do is nothing. he would get significant revenues in december of 2012, but the problem for the white house or the problem for folks that want that, they don't want to have that fight. they want fewer revenues now. >> great to have you with us tonight. >> thank you for inviting me. >> thanks so much. rupert murdoch says the scandal engulfing news corporate is an isolated incident, but there's a new picture. in 2012 candidate herman cain doubles down on the anti-ms. lum rhetoric saying the constitution doesn't apply to islam. plus, he's playing the mormon card against the mittster.

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the hacking scandal that could bring down rupert murdoch's he can pir keeps getting bigger. 11 arrests have been made including the former ceo of the international newspaper group, rebekah brooks were arrested on suspicion of phone hacking and bribing police. there were new allegations by actor jude law who says his phone was hacked by "news of the world" while in new york.

if true they could be prosecuted in the united states. in a bizarre twist a former "news of the world" reporter who was one of the first to report on the scandal as a whistleblower was found dead today. the police say the death is being labeled not suspicious, but an investigation is ongoing. tomorrow murdoch and his son james testify to british parliament along with brooks. bloomberg reports that murdoch's testimony may decide his future as ceo. murdoch released a full-page apology advertisement in every british newspaper yesterday. while murdoch tries to portray the scandal as an isolated incident, new details show a corporate culture of thuggery and cover-ups. according to the "new york times" news corp paid $655 million over the last five years to silence charges of spying and anti-competitive practices by its marketing division. the division is led by paul carlucci who murdoch named the

publisher of the "new york post." coming up, we'll show you another troubling example of how he helped define a culture of intimidation that murdoch claims doesn't exist. we'll be right back. ties. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.

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before the break i told you about the news corp's paul carlucci. his department is responsible for $655 million in lawsuit settlements. maybe this is why he routinely shows this clip from the movie "the untouchables" to his staff and says bet-wetting liberal employees will be booted from the company. >> i'm going out there for myself. but i get nowhere unless the team wins. >> team. >> team. >> the team. >> well, we can't show you the rest of the violent clip on television, but the head of news

corp's marketing department thought it was appropriate to show that to his sales staff. joining me tonight is the president of the foundation who was the director of outfoxed. good to have you with us tonight. mr. murdoch claims this phone hacking scandal is an isolated incident, but do you think it represents the corporate culture at this company when they have activities like that in sales meeting to motivate people? what do you think? >> there's no question ilts the corporate culture and the result of an atmosphere of bullying. it's a result of lying, distorting, cheating, and as the former prime minister in britain said, it's the rats coming up out the sewer, and that's about as strong a statement you get from a politician. it's important for us to understand what a pervasive effect one man controlling so much media has had on our lives here in the united states.

day after day whether it was their cheerleading for the iraq war or being the communications arm of the tea party, this has had and continues to have a profound effect on our lives each and every day. >> well, the he heditorial toda the "wall street journal" obviously defending the action of murdoch. also fox and friends defended the parent company. listen to how they played it out this morning. >> the company has come forward and said, look, this happened a long time ago at a tabloid in london. somebody did something really bad, and the company reacted. they close that newspaper. all those people got fired, even though 99% of them absolutely had nothing to do with it. >> if i'm not mistaken, murdoch, has apologized but for some reason the media goes over this again and again. >> the piling on. >> is it piling on? >> that's actually quite

disgusting, ed. look what they're doing to the "wall street journal." look how murdoch took a good newspaper and to his shame has turned it into another propaganda rag for him and a paper that day by day is losing its integrity. this is not piling on. there's another word for it. it's called democracy. it's a word maybe they don't understand over there because they're a top down company run by murdoch that gives reporters daily memos about how to treat the news and what to say and what not to say. it's going to continue. the question is is it going to get to murdoch's son? is he going to throw him under the bus? is the board of directors finally going to stand up the way they should? this is a publicly traded company, and murdoch acts like it's his own personal piggy bank. >> do you think tomorrow's testimony is huge for murdoch to stay in that position of ceo? >> well, you know, it's as interesting a day of television at least in anticipation as we

will have seen in a while. he has the board of directors stacked and people he put on it. he has a huge number of shares in the company, so i don't see at least at the moment a legitimate way to be taken out of that position. who would have thought we'd be here today, ed, just a few days ago. the momentum is extraordinary. >> no doubt. good to have you with us tonight. thank you. presidential candidate herman cain said he wouldn't put muslims in his cabinet and said he would but only if they took a loyalty oath. now he's saying islam is not protected by the first amendm t amendment. that's next. never goes unnoticed. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? ben and his family live on this block. ben's a re/max agent, and he's a big part of this community. re/max agents know their markets, and they care enough to get to know you, too. nobody sells more real estate than re/max.

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in seiko psycho talk tonight herman contain has moret rick. he's proposed an islamic center built in tennessee. he thinks the first amendment doesn't apply to muslims. >> they're using the church part of our first amendment to infuse their mosque in that community, and the people in the community do not like it. they object to the fact that islam is both a religion and a set of laws, shira law.

the people in the community know best. >> if any community wants to ban a mosque -- >> yes, they have the right to do that. >> herman cain, he seems to be confused about our constitutional rights. the first amendment gives us the right to freely practice any religion we choose. it does not give bigo ts the right to ban religions they disagree with. cain is flat out wrong with people in the community he claims do not like the mosque. only 25% of the people in tennessee object to it. almost 75% think muslims deserve the same rights as any other american. islam isn't the only religion herman cain is exploiting for political gain. today cain today the washington times mitt romney will lose the election because of ms. mormon beliefs. >> the reason he'll have a difficult time winning the south is because when he ran the first time he did not do a good job of communicating his religion.

unfortunately, it doesn't bother me, but i do know that it's an issue with a lot of southerners. >> herman cain has shown he will exploit any political opportunity and for him to say communities have a right to ban mosques is unconstitutional psycho talk. john boehner and eric cantor want to squeeze america with a cut, cap and balance bill tomorrow. our panel will tell you why the speaker might have to grab his hanky. that's next. boy, i'm glad we got aflac huh.

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we'll soon have another development in the wisconsin recall story. tomorrow voters in three districts currently represented by democrats will head to the poll. dave hanson will face republican challenger david vander least. the guy republicans got stuck with after their preferred candidate didn't collect enough signatures to get on the ballot. now, this vander leest guy is a

piece of work. he hasn't paid property taxes in three dwreerz and owed about 25,000 and has a couple of disorderly kwixzs and allegations of domestic abuse on his record and he has a bankruptcy, a home foreclosure and an unpaid settlement on his resume. meanwhile, the democrat hanson has a huge financial advantage, so odds are good that vanderleest isn't headed to madison any time son. there are two republican primaries tomorrow to determine who will take on the other democratic state senators being recalled. unlike last week's democratic primaries there are no fake candidates in the running this time. they'll have the live, late breaking coverage out of all the election coverage tonight. we'll be right back.

align.

liberals are asking themselves if president obama will cave in on raising taxes and not get revenue in this deal and go after the big three and allow it to happen. laura flanders, bill press with us tonight and brad woodhouse, communications director for the democratic national committee. mr. woodhouse, i got to start with you first. isn't the base going to take the president to the woodshed if he cuts the big three and doesn't get revenue raised? >> i wouldn't assume that's what

the president is going to do. this president has been very strong in saying he wants a big deal. he's continued to say that, and he is not going to slash social security and allow deep cuts to medicare and he has put revenue on the table and that's a position that i believe that he will maintain. >> the fact that president obama may take any deal that wants goes around the block. he has shouldn't cut benefits on on social security. >> duck, dodge and destroy is going nowhere. it will never pass the senate. the president won't sign it, and it will stuck in the gridlock forever. >> brad and bill i disagree with you.

i think there's going to be cuts and i don't think the republicans are going to budge on taxes. >> if we see anything over the last four years it's the debate is only part of attack. at the end of the debate a lot of the points of the republican attack have been won. if the president gets himself locked into a now spending promise, if he gets himself locked into no stimulus, no jobs, no creative way to resp d respond. >> how's he go back and we've seen this movie before. the public option and the bush tax cuts, what about it? >> here's where i agree with laura. we're chasing the wrong rabbit down the hole here. the number one issue facing americans is we're sucked into this and it's wrong. it's not reducing the debt. it's creating jobs. >> you want to reduce spending. let's talk about military spending. if you want to talk about bringing down costs, bring in

the private profiters. we cannot see our president lock himself into an agreement to cut spending in an election or any kind of economic crisis like the one right now. >> i would go further by thinking we didn't come become a great nation by thinking small. this is not the time to be cutting spending. >> he has the tea party to contend with over in the house with john boehner. boehner has a tea party problem. brad woodhouse, you said earlier it's the debt ceiling. you can talk about 4.5 trillion in cuts and talk about raising revenues or holding line on taxes. they will not vote to raise the debt ceiling, and they've taken an oath and that's where they stand. that is the floi in the ointment, is it not? >> it could be, ed. if they do, republicans will own it. republicans will own the first default in american history. they'll own the economic calamity that comes from that. let's remember here -- >> not if the president goes every night on tv and takes it to the nation it's the tea

party's fault. this is the time to nip this in the bud. this is the time for the president to get strong and say ints congress. it's certainly people in congress who want to destroy this economy. >> i think he's talking about that. he's talking about the -- >> the other thing he has to say is this is all politics. we've raised the debt ceiling 39 times since 1980. >> they had the votes back then. they don't have the votes now. this is a totally different republican crowd right now. they're playing for keeps and want to take down president obama. the bottom line is we could default on what we owe around the world. it could change our credit rating and unemployment could go up, and that's exactly what the republicans want. >> there are other plans we can go for here. >> bill, go ahead. >> i was going to say, we've seen this movie before. you're right. they're willing to do that, and as far as i'm concerned, if i were obama i would call their bluff and let them do it. i think they will destroy the republican party if they let this country go. >> is that a good strategy, brad? >> mitch mcconnell -- i wouldn't

say i agree with much of anything mish mcconnell says, but he got it right. they will own it for a generation. it will ruin the republican brand, and so that's what john boehner is contending with in the house and that's what the republican tea partiers have to decide. >> they're going to be able to go home and say, you know, it's a little bit tough right now, but we held the line on spending and didn't raise your taxes and that is what they've been all about and we've gone after the big three. >> that's the problem. that's the problem. it won't just be tough. it will be -- it won't be tough. it will be detrimental to seniors. it's not just a problem. >> here's the problem. the first -- >> final word, bill. >> the first day the social security checks don't arrive, this thing is over and the republican party goes down. >> okay. good to have you with us tonight. tonight in our survey i asked do you think president obama should cave on tax