next on "msnbc sunday," norway's massacre mystery. the suspect confesses to that horrific, deadly rampage, but why did he do it? was he a ticking time bomb that could have been stopped. another new deal in the works but is the republican plan even more suitable to the president. talent, trouble, and tragedy. a scandal-scarred pop star loses her life in london. new details this hour. going to the altar, an historic day signals a new beginning for many couples. good morning, i'm alex witt. welcome to "msnbc sunday," it's

9:00 a.m. on the east coast, 6:00 a.m. out west. what's happening right now. twin attacks in norway, tooks lives of at least 92 people. lawyer for the suspect says his client has confessed to the bomb attack in downtown oslo as well as the shooting rampage at a teen summer camp on a nearby island. 32-year-old anders behring breivik is scheduled to appear in court tomorrow. we're going live to oslo and nbc's martin fletcher. a 1500-page manifesto that has emerged. what's the latest coming from the police? >> reporter: well, the police, alex, had an operation in eastern oslo this morning where they detained a few people and searched an apartment, the suspicion there were more accomplices with the killer. they -- it turned out they were all released, no connection, no explosives. this morning the king and queen of norway and government leaders

attended a memorial for the 93 victims. the man who did it did it because he wanted to change norwegian society. norway's in mourning, trying to understand. photos of the youth camp taken before the shooting at the prime minister said a paradise island that turned into hell. desperate survivors pulled to safety from the worst shooting massacre in memberry, at least 85 murdered. >> just like going around killing people like it was no deal. >> he just was like shooting everyone. he wasn't thinking. but it feels like a nightmare. >> reporter: the suspect hunted victims, aged from 12 to 19, shooting them for 90 minutes. but when police arrived, his moment of surrender, no resistance. me had no police record. >> we have not arrested him before or anything like that. >> reporter: in may the suspect

bought six tons of fertilizer similar to the kind mcveigh used in oklahoma city. after setting off the car bomb that killed seven in oslo central square the suspect drove to the island, dressed as a policeman. he told the teenagers he needed to protect them after the oslo bombing. he gathered them close, and opened fire. >> the reason i throughout it was a game or, i don't know, something else, it was like not high sound shooting, it was like silencer or something, it sounded like fireworks. >> reporter: as they fled through the woods and swam for their lives he picked them off one by one. >> the guy with the gun was standing there and shooting at us. if i started to swim a bit later, he would have shot. i think we would have been dead now. >> i tried to save those i could but there were people there that i couldn't do anything for. >> reporter: the suspect's name anders behring breivik, 32 years

old. just last week he updated his facebook page, called himself a christian, a conservative, likes hunting. facebook friends, zero. right winger but with no signs of potential violence. how strong is the right wing here? how big is this pool of people that could produce such a person? >> that pool of people, i would say, is very, very limited. what we see here is a rather extreme single instance, rather than something representative. >> reporter: the maximum punishment in norway for any crime, 21 years in president. if convicted the 32-year-old suspect will be back on the streets when he's 53 years old. >> we'll hear from martin late. >> americans are expressing their support for norway. on saturday mourns are created a makeshift memorial in washington, d.c., where people left flowers, flags, and candles and cards by a statue in front of the norwegian embassy.

president obama offered his condolences to the people of norway. golfer suzanne peterson of norway expressed her sorrow by wearing a black arm band participating in the masters in france. the number three ranked play in the world says she's deeply upset by friday's bombing and shooting deaths calling it the biggest disaster in norway's history. for the latest on the massacre in norway, including new details about the suspect in custody, logon to our website at msnbc.com. a crucial day in the debt ceiling debate. speaker boehner's hoping to unveil a new plan by 4:00 p.m. eastern time this afternoon. boehner's trying to produce a plan before the asian markets open this evening, to avoid negative reaction for investors. joining me now, nbc white house correspondent mike i havicario. what's happening todayed deadline nine days away.

after the talks blew up after boehner pulled the plug on the grand bargain all over the issue of taxes, congressional leaders scrambling to find a way out of the mounting crisis. right, boehner, republicans, have a plan on the table now, call for cuts up front immediately about a trillion dollars. it would raise the debt ceiling a trillion dollars, defer the more difficult questions, you know those changes to social security and medicare that are so volatile politically that have so many people upset and concerned. also the overhaul of the tax code that was the final stumbling block to the so-called grand bargain. put those in a special committee, deal with them late, force the committee to deal with them, put them on the floor under the expedited procedures making congress vote on them, the problem is that wouldn't happen until later this year or next year, and a lot of people are concerned, particularly on the democratic side. they want something that will last through the election. one shot, they don't want to deal with it after that, that's the position of the president

and democrats. so for -- at this point this two-tiered approach is a nonstarter. you're right, the speaker wants at least a framework for an agreement to be announced later today. the asian markets, a lot of concern, raised by the secretary yesterday in meeting with the white house and congressional leaders. president obama and vice president biden, it was raised by house speaker boehner, we're told, on a conference call with his members yesterday, concern over jitters in worldwide markets. they start to open 4:00 eastern time here in the united states. monday morning markets in asia. they're trying to get something done to calm fears. alex, we're up against it now here. >> any word, anyone weighing in from the white house on where things stand today or has that not happened yet. >> reporter: not today. bill daley, chief of staff is going to be on "meet the press" this morning. speaker's going to be on another program. we'll hear public pronouncements over the next few hours and

everybody's going to take it from there. >> we'll take it again from you in an hour. earlier today i spoke with republican senator mike lee, who is part of the tea party caucus, and i asked him if there might be a deal already in place if it weren't for the demands of the tea party. >> i'm not going to let's you blame this on a grassroots political phenomenon that has arisen spontaneously as tens of millions of americans have realized that the federal government has become too big, too expensive. the fact is that we have a massive debt problem in this country. we have accumulated a national debt that works out to about $50,000 for every man, woman and child in america. we do have a problem. the fact that we don't have a deal yet can't be blamed on any one group of people. >> coming up, our political panel on why the debt fight has seemingly spun out of control and what the negotiations look like right now. well it's a day of wish fulfillment for gay couples waiting for years and decades to

get married. the first full day gay couples and legally tie the knot in the state. more than 800 coupled scheduled to get married today in new york city alone. michelle franzen live in new york city. good morning to you. i see a big old line, which i suspect is right about what's going on today. >> reporter: that's right, alex. that's the entrance to the city clerk's office back here and that line snakes around the building, as you mentioned. nearly a thousand couples here in manhattan, over 400 already hearing cheers at exit doors. some of the first marriages taking place inside. today just as much about making history as it is about making it official. >> just open it. >> reporter: word came in the form of an e-mail for tiffany and meredith. >> you have been selected. >> that's it, we're done! >> i love you. >> reporter: the engaged couple

are aplong the 823 who enters the new york city lottery and were chosen to marry on the first day same-sex marriage is legal in new york state. >> i'm just so happy. i mean, we wanted to get married in new york so badly, because this is where we lib, this is where we made our home, this is where we met. this is where we fell in love. >> reporter: douglas and michael will officially make it legal today using the historic occasion to celebrate their own history together. they were married in a church ceremony nearly two decades ago and have raised two sons. >> who ever thought that in our lifetime this would happen? or the state would recognize our relationship and the love that we have for each other continues after 25 years? >> reporter: new celebrations and new sources of income for businesses catering to same-sex couples. >> that is going to help all of us who have been suffering through this terrible economy. >> reporter: at city cupcakes in chelsea, orders are already

coming in. >> we're actually booked for a gay wedding on monday, it's our first gay wedding. >> reporter: new york the sixth, and large effort, state to legalize same-sex marriage, along with washington, d.c., massachusetts was the first. >> i'm going to send you down the aisle. >> reporter: boston wedding planner just opened an office in new york city and is relocating to the state with her wife and baby this fall. >> new york is the number one travel destination for lgbt tourists. as a result, i believe that my business is going to double or even triple in the coming years. >> reporter: but on this day, the focus will be on the couples waiting to say "i do." >> this is insane. >> you're going to be my wife. >> you're going to be my wife! >> reporter: and again, those marriages just starting to take place here at the manhattan city clerks office. looking at a picture, a live picture, inside some of those weddings at this time. not everybody agrees, though,

with same-sex marriage. alex, there are a handful of protesters across the street, including a group from the west borough baptist church. >> not surprising. take a look at heat wave at the past few days on the east coast has made it feel look i heat tsunami. on saturday the thermometers dipped into triple digits. causing a surge in water usage and straining pour grids. the worst of the heat came on friday. on that day alone, 212 record highs were recorded, including 108 degrees in newark, new jersey. there's a cooldown on the horizon? with the weather channel's ray stagich has the answer to that, there's got to be a cooldown. this is the hottest it comes. >> yeah, that 108 friday in newark, wow, hot enough to make. the heat will break a tad in the east. the dip in the jet stream, going to push south and southeast.

may not make the mason dixon line but we'll see relief through midweek. the big ridge will stay in place. where it's been hot it will continue to stay hot. wednesday the trough in the east and the west bringing some decent weather. as we head through late in the week, guess what? probably going to go back up again, close to 90 but we don't think 100-degree heat's coming back in the big cities. warnings and advises from philly and washington and raleigh. good day to be the at beach. and more heat advisories across the midwest as dangerous heat indices will combine with warm temperatures, already in the 80s across the east. alex, the place to be is really going to be out west where there's pleasant temperatures in places in california. >> not surprisingly. thank you very much, ray stagich. fans and celebrity as like are paying tribute to amy winehouse, the 27 year old singer found dead yesterday by ambulance cruise called to her

north london home. she shot to international fame with release of her 2006 album "back to black" but battled drug and alcohol addiction. what are the latest deal tails you have heard surrounding amy winehouse's death? has there been a cause of death declared yet? >> there hasn't been a cause of death determined yet. police are operating under the suspicion a drug overdose but nothing confirms. they're waiting for the autopsy to release an official statement. it's obvious to anyone that she's battled drugs and alcohol for nearly five years and so i think it's safe to assume that her death was drug and alcohol related, but again no official statement from police. >> i know that again, as a pop couple tur columnist, were you surprised by this? some people were shocked and saddened. the saddened part you understand, but the shocked part? >> i understand the saddened part. i do not understand the shock part. i think -- i think people -- for

people it was not how she was going to die, it was sort of when she was going to die, for a number of people. i think it's always devastating, particularly for fans when someone who is that immensely talented passes away tragically and at the prime of their life and career. i don't think very many people were shocked. >> a mere 27 years old. >> mere 27. >> interesting last month, winehouse canceled the european comeback tour because she was booed off the stage in belgrade for swaying and slurring her way through barry recognizable songs. what else do we know about the last few months of her life? >> it's been pretty messy for the past few years. appearing disheveled on stage, not remembering words, slur, falling in and out-pubs. it's a trajing period in her life. 2008 rolling stone profiled her, the reporter shows up, walked in, found the place covered in garbage, amy winehouse covered

in scars and cuts. a downward spiral. no one's surprised it's happened but it's trajic. >> those suggest shes and a household name because of antics as opposed to her immense talent. >> it's been the way she's garners headlines recently, of course. rememberler biggest hit but was about her refusing to go to rehab. this is how she introduces herself to the world. music was painfully auto biographical. listen to her album "back to black" it's he a. all there. made for great music but made for a tragic ending. >> thank you. still ahead -- a fire station goes up in flames but this was no accident. and the arson arrests have stunned a community. and call it timberlake transformation. how the star's branching out.

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the country's now nine days away from the deadline to raise the debt ceiling and there's no agreement in washington. john boehner is hoping to present a new bill this afternoon, in about, oh, 6 and a half hours or 0 so and planning to work for seven straight days from monday to monday, in order to get a deal passed in time. susan page the "usa today" washington bureau chief, jonathan alter an nbc political analyst and bloomberg view an lift. susan, i'll reach out to you first, in the small meeting at the white house, i'm curious how honestly do these people speak to each other? could john boehner have said, look, i would have done this deal but i don't have the votes from the tea party type. so do they talk to each other in code? >> it will be a fly on the wall at these meetings. you know i think there is a d.c. code like there's a diplomatic code, maybe sports athletes have codes, too, because for one

thing, there's wariness whatever you say in these meetings will get repeated when the meeting's over, especially in things go south but there's no question the talks have been pretty serious. real issues have been really engaged throw so far the idea of a functioning government able to come to a deal, we haven't seen that. >> so jonathan, you know, doesn't this feel like college students pulling an all-nighter to finish a term paper? why are we here at this point? >> well, if the term paper could, you know, blow up the world, i mean, you know, they are sulking on the lip of the volcano. this is a very serious deal. people talk about the august 2nd deadline but the reason they're there this weekend is because when asian markets open, if there's no progress towards some kind of agreement, that they can, you know, grab on to, you could see a calamitous market collapse in the next few days.

the entire, you know, full faith in credit of the united states, our aaa rating, is at risk and unnecessarily. that's -- that's the crazy thing about this, alex. this is a self-created crisis. we have enough real crises in the world and this one was precipitated by relatively small group of people on capitol hill who decided that they were going to hole the government hostage to their agenda. >> all right. let's address that, susan, because is there an objective reality as to why this hasn't been involved? but is it the fringes of each party, not just the tea partiers but the way left as well preventing progress? >> you flow you say fringe, i say heart. it's really the people who are at the core of both parties who are very unhappy with the deal that had been put forward. the tea party, yes, concerned about anything that look likes raising taxes or compromising with president obama.

obama was getting a lot of flak from the left wing of the democratic party, also the heart of the base for the democrats. these are people who provide the energy and the foot soldiers for parties. what we're seeing here, i think,s a debate over a very fundamental debate over the role of government everybody the size of government what do we want government to do, how are we willing to pay for it? that's why this has proves to be so very difficult. >> go ahead. >> i was going to say, president obama said to his base -- susan's quite right that they were very unhappy -- he said, looker you have to give things up. boehner did not say that to the republican base. he did not say, look we have to agree to some revenue increases on the wealthy. >> do we flow that he did not say that? >> we do know that. >> do they say, forget you? >> we do know that. the fight was over $400 billion in adigle tax revenues as recommended by the gang of six, the bipartisan gang of six, and boehner could not get his base,

the tea party folks, even his own leadership people like eric cantor and kevin mccarthy, to swallow this idea, because politically he's not secure enough to lead. >> so i want to ask both of you this question, who stands more to lose from their base, john boehner or the president? i'll let you go first, susan. >> john boehner, clearly, has a somewhat tenuous situation with his base. you know who's got the most to lose in the debate? president obama. if they don't reach a deal and the economy goes south he's going to be held responsible for reelections next time. >> the stakes on this, boy, for both side but was for president obama could hardly be any higher. >> i think that's absolutely right. if we lose our credit rating over this, people won't remember the details. they will just blame the president, and that puts him in a worse negotiating position this weekend, as they're getting down to the nitty-gritty, and it makes it much, much tougher for

him to fashion an agreement that can stick. right now the issue, so people understand, is that the president wants to end this between now and the election. so that we don't get back into the same place a few months down the road. the republicans want to just have a very short-term solution so that they can come back and hold the government hostage again next year in the middle of the campaign. >> exactly. middle of the campaign. susan i was going to have you hit that point. no one wants to deal with the those when they're trying to deal with running for president. >> the reason there is is so damaging when you think of the markets, it's not only will we be able to pay our bills, it's do we have a government that can address the problem. if you kick the can down the road, you have demonstrated to standard and poorer's and the american government we do not have a government that can deal with these problems. why do we think a couple months from now we'll be able to do

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day but people continue to pour down the cathedral because they feel they have to be here, they have to be together as one told me. people are still walking in and the service has been over for quite some time. the prime minister was here along with the royal family. the prime minister, in a very emotional speech during the service, talking to those here with his voice quivering, crying, at times. i want to make sure i get this right, we're a small country but we're a proud people. our answer is more democracy and more openness. they're obviously really trying to work through what happened here. there's been a lot of talk about what the accused gunman's sentiments were coming into this and his discussions about anti-immigration and isolation. and so the message from the political figures here in oslo has been, hey, that's not what we're. that's not what this country of norway is about and they want to make sure that's a message that resounds with everyone who

continues to turn up here. there's a growing memorial here, flowers, candles and the like, and we've seen that grow throughout the day here and it's going to continue, because again, hundreds of people continue to pour in here, despite the rain and poor weather. >> i have a feeling that crowd will not have subside much when we see you. italy, tomorrow, amanda knox 0 who returns to court for a hearing on the appeal of her conviction, knock and her family hoping the conviction will be reversed based on a new report of dna evidence. the court-appointed experts say the police made mistake. the dna evidence against knox should be thrown out. she was sentenced to 26 years in prison. lawmakers are on capitol hill are racing to produce a framework on the debt deal. this morning on "meet the press," white house press secretary bill daily told david gregory there's already been damage done to america's fiscal

reputation. >> i don't think there's any question there's been enormous damage done to our credit worthiness around the world, the perception of america as a country that not only is solid and when there are difficult problems, as we have done in our history, we address them, we don't kick the can. we had a chance, we still have a chance, albeit a difficult because it's only nine days away to august 27bnd to do something serious. >> catch david gregory's int interview with bill daley when it reairs on "msnbc sunday." gay marriage under way in new york state this morning. >> now pronounce you legally married! >> well, the first wedding was performed just after midnight in niagara falls. the traditional wedding and honeymoon capital of america. new york city, more than 800

same-sex couples expected to have their weddings performed today. joining me now, new york city council speaker, christine quinn from the clerk's office in lower manhattan. how's it going there this morning? >> it's going terrific. i got here at about 7:30 and there was already a line around the block. and i got to inside watch two -- the first two couples get married and when the city clerk said, i now under the power of the laws of the state of new york marry you, it was an unbelievable thing to hear. to hear that he was marrying these two women, both in their 80s, because the law of my state gives limb thhim that power. an overwhelming and thrilling thing to hear. >> when the law passed in june i saw a number of interviews with you and read comment it, was emotional for you. >> it was very emotional in watching the two couples this morning was more emotional than i expected it to be.

you know, it's -- this law's a personal law. it's about my family. it's about people's families and it's about the state taking discrimination out of the law. you know before this law passed, it was as if law of the great state said you, your family is less than other families. and now the law recognizes and affirms every family as equal, every union as good and strong as any other one. and that's an amazing thing for me personally to have the laws say, on the books, what i know in my heart that my family is just as much a family as anybody else, but it's also an important thing for us as a society. we have tons of judges inside, volunteering their time to marry people they'll never meet. we have court officers in here on a sun who couldn't seem happier. you have a great sense of community today in lower manhattan and that's what happens when you expand people's human rights, you actually

create more unity, you create more closeness in society, and a greater bond of community through love, and that's what we're seeing today. and it really is so exciting. >> i want to talk about the benefit for new york city as a whole. but you're also making wedding plans for is it next year? >> yes, for next year in the springtime. >> well that's a wonderful time to be married in new york. but in terms of what it means for new york city, christine, this is also a big business boom potentially. >> well, you know, that's not the reason you do it, but i do think this will help the economy of new york city. i think lot ofs people want to have their weddings and receptions and their honeymoons here in new york city, and that's a great thing. you know, for people all across the world to see that this city has been made stronger, in human and moral and economic ways by this law, sends an incredibly powerful message that moving human rights forward is always a good thing, never a divisive thing like our opponents would

have us believe. but you know, for folks watching new york better place to get married than the big apple, let me tell you. >> we had a lot of fun getting ready to get married in their rainbow leis with their daughter. i don't want to throw cold water on this but i must ask, because i'm originally from california and i've watched a lot of the politics and things that's happened there, and you know where i'm going here, california had the green light for a while and then it turned the other way again. do you have any concerns potentially here? >> no. i have no fears that we are going to lose marriage equality in new york. let me tell you, we worked a lifetime, some people and moved heaven and earth and created a strong coalition, and that coalition is not going to be shaken or undone in new york. this law's on the books and it is here to stay, and that's the way it's going to be in our state for now and for ever.

>> so says christine quinn. early congratulations and many thanks. >> thank you very much. take care. two district attorneys of sizzling and deadly heat in the northeast continues to ook cook. new york city, heat index 110 degrees and friday and that rolled into saturday. forecasters say some relief may be on the horizon. let's go to the weather channel'ser r ee eric fisher inl park. have we hit the horizon yet or not? >> put me on the hook there. we are feeling a bit of relief. when you say relief, it's a relative term. we hit 100 degrees here yesterday, a new record high. 104 on friday. today we're talking 92 or 93 degrees. so it's a or nine degrees cooler, still a lot day. substantial relief during the day tomorrow. new york is a city in motion. you can see clentral park, hundreds of people running, walking dogs and riding bikes. that's the case through the day today.

we urge everyone to be careful, drink plenty of water. if you've been to the city you know there are stands all over the place, i've seen a number selling nothing but gatorades, waters, things to keep hydrated out there. i guarantee you they are more popular than the burrito or kabob stand but was they'll come back in favor in time. we talked to public hospitals in new york city, they admitted 53 people on friday for heat-related issues a spike from four thursday. they say they see the most effect when you have heat over several days, five, six, seven days in a row. something we will not see here in the city. more records could be set from philadelphia southward today. more heat continues in the deep south over toward the middle of the country. no changes in store there. so heat remain a big story. we set 845 record highs since monday through saturday. but we set over 2,000 record high low temperatures, warm nights, many cities stayed in the 80s through the course of the week. that is rough stuff. >> no kidding. i left for work at 4:30 one

morning and it was 85. i got to my car none theless. >> difficult to start the day. sports bee onthe scores. two runners from france begin to fight after they lost a race. one guy was trying to console his teammate and it escalated into fisticuffs. they didn't exactly duke it out like hockey players but it was pretty much as entertaining. the french athletics federation suspended the two runners.

a severe drought in the south is drying up lakes and streams and scorching the earth. it began february in texas, but it has spread to 15 state. the economic costs are high, crops are drying up with losses in the millions of dollars. along lake trav this in austin, there's no lake left to speak of but it's live stock and animals hurting the most. >> we've flnever had anything ts

severe, drought, heat, lack of food. >> it's survival of fittest and we're seeing it in all species. >> the situation is so dire for every animal they take in dozens more may die in the wild. captain america conquering boy wizard at the box office. the superhero film raked in $65.5 million, beating out "harry potter and the deathly hallows 2" for the number one spot. the final film in the series came in second with $48.9 million, then in third place with $18.7 million the comedy "friends with benefits." justen timberlake is one of the co-stars of "friends with benefits" but acting is not the only thing on his resume. the pop star is promoting himself as an entrepreneur in social media, thanks to his recent investment in myspace. "newsweek" and daily beast writer is here to talk about the business moves. are his business moves as good

as his dancing moves? >> i think so. myspace values at $580 million in 2005. he invest in it and they paid only $35 million. so this could be a huge deal, you know, if they can get this to turn around. it can be a really smart move. >> you think it's a smart move for him. this something when you look at the account of money it has, what if it never takes off again? >> with justin timberlake, he's going to be the face of the brand and i talked to him about this decision a few weeks ago. he said what really appealed to him having creative control, being able to as a musician and artist, myspace is about music, re-create the site and rebrand it and make it cool again. >> so this can actually be a front for his brand. >> it will be. he will be the face of myspace in the sway mark zuckerberg is the face of facebook. >> we don't see mark dancings and singing. >> and he didn't bring sexy back. >> is there anything this guy

does not do well? he's the fodder for so many conversations. everything he does, i'm sure the thing you saw with jimmy fallon. >> he got three emmy nominations for hosting "saturday night live." gwyneth paltrow tried to do from acting to singing and didn't succeed but justin timberlake suck seed from acting to singing. >> to acting and singing and back as acting he goes back and forth effortlessly but with the new film that's out, you know, it didn't bring out amazing numbers this weekend but respectable, sure. >> it did okay, $18 million, "friends with benefits." no strings attached similar, made 18 million. so you know, you -- he's still getting there. it's respectable but wasn't a huge hit. if you seen "friends with benefit."

i have. they have great chemistry. it's a lot of fun. >> the sense of what he enjoys doing the most, i see him as being a singer, entrepreneur, m growing up the person he really idolized and really respected was actually will smith, who went from being a rap star to tv star to an actor. so it seems like he's following a similar trajectory and succeeding at it. >> he sure is. ramin setoodeh thanks for bringing it to us. and bringing sexy back too. the mother of amy winehouse tells a british newspaper she believed it was only a matter of time before her daughter died. but nothing's helped me beat my back pain. then i tried this. it's salonpas. this is the relief i've been looking for. salonpas has 2 powerful pain fighting ingredients that work for up to 12 hours. and my pharmacist told me it's the only otc pain patch approved for sale using the same rigorous clinical testing that's required for prescription pain medications. proven. powerful. safe. salonpas.

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police say the suspect in norway's bombing and shooting rampage has confessed but does not accept responsibility. the lawyer for 32-year-old anders breivik says his client wanted to attack norwegian society in order to change it and is will to explain himself in court. meanwhile, police say lack of transportation like a boat or a helicopter is what delayed their arrival at the teen island camp

where the gunman systematically shot and killed 86 people. at least 93 were killed in both attacks. joining me live now here in studio is security expert anthony roman. anthony, good morning to you. >> good morning. >> there's a concern about the lapse of time between the attack at the oslo government building and then getting out to that island. security certainly in oslo, police, they were responding to the first one, but it took an extraordinary amount of time to get to that island. what was the problem there? >> well, you're right. and it was remarkable to hear that report, that special forces unit of the police department that's incredibly well trained, had a lack of logistics. and that's fundamentally what the problem was. their helicopter, which is dedicated to the unit that should have been on standby, was not and was not ready to take them to the island. the unit was not equipped with boats or rapid-moving rafts, which commando units should always have at their disposal. for comparison, the new york city police department has a wonderful harbor unit, wonderful

emergency service unit that trains with special forces at fort bragg, and they have an unbelievable aviation unit which would respond in an instant. >> now, anthony, do you think that is because we are so prepared, having lived through what we've lived through? i mean, i wonder if we would have had the same conversation about new york city's preparedness ten years ago now prior to 9/11. >> i don't believe so. the emergency service unit has been in existence for a very long time and is an incredibly proficient unit. the norwegian society and the fundamental culture of norwegians is a trusting, open society. their security by no means matches what we have in new york city. and their preparedness apparently does not either. i think this is a wake-up call for them. >> what do you make of the suspect claiming to have acted alone and in part i guess the incredulous concept of 86 people killed on that island? do you think he was capable of doing it all by himself, and is it the time that allowed him to

was the time. there's no question about that. the logistics of an attack like that, as it's been reported, you have the car bomb. he owned or leased a farm. and he had ordered six tons of ammonium nitrate, which is a key ingredient for a tremendous car bomb that can do that kind of damage. >> that's the fertilizer? >> that's the fertilizer. that's correct. and timothy mcveigh used the exact same bomb in oklahoma city to devastate the federal building there. absolutely terrible. so one person can affect that. and he had the logistics to do it. >> you have to wonder about warning signs, though. it always seems like hindsight's 20-20 and you look at things and you say oh, yeah, we can see that he was going off the deep end. is that the case here? >> yes, yes. there's no question about that. however, a recent declassified report by the norwegian police showed that they were really not looking inward for an attack. they thought that that was a very low likelihood, that they were looking at an attack from

muslim extremists. and again, goes back to that cultural nuance of the norwegian society where they're trusting of one another. >> yeah, well, not so much now, i'm certain. anthony roman, thanks for weighing in. >> my pleasure. the most powerful man in the house is working on a new debt reduction deal, but will this one be any more acceptable to the president? that's ahead. plus, the naacp convention is under way in los angeles. we're going to see which issues will get the top billing at the annual meeting. you're watching "msnbc sunday." i love all the gadgets. check out the backup cam.

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