the boehner plan goes down and there will be civil war in the gop. >> i heard that pat buchanan's double whopper was the best meal he had in years. and the great peter king declared this morning on this very show, the detroit lions may go to the super bowl this year. >> well, if it's way too earlier, it's "morning joe." stick around because we go to chuck todd. ♪ put your little hand in mind ♪ there ain't no hill or mountain we can't climb ♪ >> okay, campers, rise and shine, don't forget your sunscreen, because it's hot out there. that's right, welcome to washington's groundhog day, it's a new day, but the debt ceiling

standoff is going nowhere, and it's going nowhere fast. the hard sell, speaker boehner is going back to the drawing board after his plan came up short on spending cuts and he came up short on votes. brace yourself for a ten, 20 or 30-day extension. it's wednesday july 27. coming up, we'll get the very latest on this game of let's make a deal. from democratic senator chuck schumer, we can't get our debt ceiling raised and we're all by ourselves. let's go to my first read of the morning. hurry up and wait. let's flash back to speaker boehner less than 24 hours ago. >> i think we're going to have some work to do to get it passed, but i think we can do it. >> the house vote planned for today not happening and the plan is to vote tomorrow, plan, that is, this comes after house

conservatives balked at the speaker's plan and that was before the congressional budget office came out and said that the speaker's plan wouldn't save as much money as it originally promised. you had the speaker's office, and harry reid's office, they were actually trying to come together with some sort of plan, either the merge the two plans, which have very similar, or come up with something else before these votes happened. but things are stalled and guess what, the same thing that's falled reid boehner, it's the same thing that failed mcconnell reid back in the day. no one is agree on what the second trigger is. it's going to be a two-step deficit reduction process. boehner wants to do another debt ceiling vote. reid wants it to be this commission of some form, but what's going to be the personality if the commission doesn't work? that's the problem. now down on the other end of

pennsylvania avenue, the white house is still trying to deal themselves back into the conversation. monday of course it was the president. now look at tuesday's blitz. all on tv tuesday pushing compromise trying to get something done. but they're not at the center of the talks. behind the scenes, white house officials are essentially working through and with senate majority leader harry reid to shape a deal. he's the proxy here. now yesterday they did issue a veto threat on the john boehner plan. but that is it, the boehner thing would be as it when it got to the president's desk. the real news of yesterday as the day wore on is lots of whispers that the likelihood of some sort of ten, 20 or 30-day extension, and look at the history of debt ceiling, there's actually been a few very, very short extensions to buy more time. if that showed up on the

president's desk, from what i understand he would sign it. now all eyes are on congress. we do want to keep our eyes on that 2012 race. boehner's eyes seem to be fixed on the fall of 12. he's already been knocked for joking about secret service detail and yesterday he started floating running mate names and said guess where he's campaigning? not iowa, ohio. he's not been in new hampshire, south carolina very often. he's been to places like pennsylvania, michigan and today ohio where he's going to pick up a few endorsements. we get what he's going, we'll see, inevitability campaigns do work. the numbers are adding up for john boehner, not only does

his bill stand all to proposed savings. co-chair of the tuesday group, it's a coalition of about 50 center right republicans. are we really back at square one at this point, congresswoman? >> i don't think so, chuck. first of all, the reason that there's a discrepancy between the boehner plan and the cbo numbers is all a matter of baseline, we have based ourselves on january numbers, the cbo based theirs on end of march numbers. so the speaker and other members of the leadership are going back to readjust the top line number of how much we will raise the debt ceiling together with the cuts that have been identified. >> so he's not going to change

the cuts since these appear to be the first ones in the plan. >> subsequently we would raise the debt ceiling to $850 billion or maybe $900 billion, a little bit less we'll see when they present it to the congress. i think that we're going to come to kind or a decision. when you look at it harry reid's plan and john boehner's plan are not all that different. even before the krrkcbo came ou there seemed to be some forces to try to kill this boehner proposal. >> we have 217 votes at the end

of the process. >> i know there's a lot of questions and answers. as people go through it i think they're starting to understand it better. but any time there's a two-step process people get a little bit nervous because they think that, okay, we agree to the first step, what happens if we don't agree to the second step? it's just a matter of talking to everyone and that the education process, but i actually think we'll get the votes for this first plan at the end of the day. >> there's been in twitter feed

that uses some harsh language, but the twitter feed itself has. >> you are as far away from us as we are from mars, some are upset that republicans aren't compromising, some are upset that some of these't holding th more. what do you say to this response to a lot of the public that just says get it done. just get it done? >> there are many of us who want very much to get it done as quickly and as thoroughly and as appropriately as possible. and you know, for a lot of our new members who haven't ever been in a legislative branch before, it's hard for people to sometimes understand that we're only one-half of one-third of the government. so just because the republicans

control the house doesn't mean anything in the big picture other than being very successful in getting the democratic senate and the white house to start talking about spending reductions as opposed to just raising the debt ceiling, so we have been successful that way. but ultimately because the's di don't have a parliamentary system -- >> you just said this word, i just saw jim demint this morning on another news program talk about, you know, no, you know, said no to the boehner plan and he's arguing against the boehner plan, campaigning against it. what do you tell folks who look up to jim demint in that republican conference of yours? >> well, first of all, i think the majority of our colleagues believe that it's important to give our leadership support, number one, number two, when people really stop to think of how far we have moved the

discussion from raising taxes to only lifting the debt limit to being able to cut spending at the same rate, then they have to consider it as being quite successful, i think. but at the end of the day, i do believe that my colleagues think that the country has to come first, politics should come second, and we need to get on with our work. so i'm kneeling cautiously opt mitts tick. >> do you think that the speaker ought to see if the president will accept the last deal that he put on the table? >> first of all, what comes to mind and i think it was appropriate that the speaker actually brought the whole discussion back to the congress because we're the one who is really do set the policy and the spending limits and the president approves or disapproves of what we do. >> sure. but he can move the democrats on this if you get this big enough deal? >> well, i think that the -- let

us try to get through the work, everything's being hyped so much now. but attend of the day, we have got to get our jobs done and we really have to focus on job creation and the economy and get this behind us. >> congresswoman joanne emerson, are you from missouri or missouri? i'm on the missouri side. i'm on the east side. >> all right, congresswoman thanks for coming on "the daily rundown." last one to vote is a rotten egg? so what's on the senate side of this, we're going to talk to senator chuck schumer, he joins us next. >> $14 trillion debt, much of it owned by china. we're near the breaking point. >> the big republican superpac

brought through gps steps it up on the obama administration, in the middle of his debt fight, a little china bashing there. we're going to see who wins this battle of public opinion over this deficit. but look ahead at the president's schedule. the less that's on the schedule, the more that's happening, that's the lesson we all know at the white house. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.

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everybody wants leverage, and it could come down to who wants it worse, the democrats or republicans. chuck schumer serves on both the banking committee, the committee on finance and is one of the top

men in leadership, senator schumer, nice to have you. >> good morning, chuck. >> let me start with what appears to be that we learned from congresswoman emerson that what boehner is going to do to change his plan a little bit is he's going to keep the cuts the same because they're so similar to what you guys are offering in the senate and just lower the first round of asks for the debt ceiling request. >> it's less acceptable, i think most people including the markets because the biggest problem with the boehner plan, there are several that it's so short-term, that as soon as we raise the debt ceiling we'll be back at it fighting again, royaling the markets, risking downgrade. standard and poors has said with the small amount of rise in the debt ceiling that boehner propo proposes, we risk -- we ought to just scrap the boehner plan,

it's not getting any democratic votes in the house. they're having trouble getting republicans votes in the house. it's dead on arrival in the senate. i don't know if there's a single democrat, i believe there's not a single democrat who will vote for it in the senate and the president said he will veto it. so what kind of exercise is this? how many pieces of red meat do we have to throw to the hard right before we actually sit down and negotiate? at this point we're running out of town. >> at this point there needs to be a vehicle. are you going to start your clock on -- so that your bill gets scored, starts going through the motion over the next 72 hours. >> the only way we're going to pass something here is agreement, it's not agreement house and senate, it's agreement between the leaders you, have to have senate reid, senator mcconnell, speaker boehner and the president, and ranking member pelosi all agree because each is a component without

which you cannot pass anything. what i believe is the senate bill, is the basic tell plampla. and i believe that for instance senator mcconnell when he issued his plan a few weeks ago was showing that he understood that for substantive reasons, political reasons or some of each of letting the debt ceiling laps and i think he and senator reed can step down, including speaker boehner and speaker pelosi. and use that as a model. but the boehner model is not going anywhere. and this idea that speaker boehner has to please the 80 most right wing people in his caucus before he does anything is a recipe for -- you cannot -- chuck one more point, you cannot let people who say letting the

debt ceiling lapse doesn't matter, drive the car, they'll drive it right over the clip. >> why not if you believe your bill is the best vehicle to sort of get this done, start the clock, get it -- get this prosoez sal, get it scored, get it done. i know that mcconnell, senator mcconnell didn't come out in favor of it. perhaps you're worried on the votes, why not start the clock now? obviously the other clock is coming up fast. >> to start the clock, the senate bill is the great hope because it comes closer to reaching a consensus than any other. >> but it hasn't been introduced. but you have to get senator mcconnell on board to start the clock now and two days later only get 53 democratic votes and no republican votes will not get us very far. the most important thing is to use it as a template, negotiate seriously and get something that everyone can pass, to start the

clock before there's an agreement may put increased pressure to come to an agreement and we may have to do that at some point, maybe some point soon, but it doesn't undo the fact that you need agreement to get something passed, not just starting a clock to get something passed. >> speaking of agreement, it's my understanding while you guys are very close to the cuts portion of this in round one and everybody's accepting of the two-step process, it's the penalty on step two of the process that you guys can't come to an agreement to. obviously you don't want debt ceiling another debt ceiling vote to be the penalty. what is the penalty if this commission on tax reform and entitlement reform doesn't get the other $1.2 trillion that everybody's asking for, might get up to $2 trillion, what penalty are you guys putting on the table? >> let me just say this, first our bill has over $2 trillion in cuts compared to $850 million in

the boehner bill. our bill gets us much further along, so simply say we're not doing cuts is not true. >> but they're pretty small. >> in the first round, we get past 20123, which is what the markets have said we need to do. boehner's bill gets us up to december, our bill gets past december of 2012. and that's a huge, huge difference. because after 2012, things can change and maybe we won't have the gridlock that we'll almost inevitably have if we do this this december which is what speaker boehner is proposing. >> in six months, what is the -- everybody's looking for this trigger penalty, what everyone, i'm trying not to use congress speak here. >> just to reiterate, there doesn't need to be a trigger for december, because the debt ceiling is renewed until january

or february of 2013. however, to get some kind of trigger in the long run to get a much larger bill. not $2 trillion but $4 trillion, we would need a combination of spending cuts and revenue is the trigger. one of the beauties of the senate plan is we don't need a trigger because we get past 2012. >> how long do you think you guys are going to be -- short-term extension to buy more negotiating time? >> the president has said he would veto such a short-term bill, and worse than that -- once the markets, they're this mystical little beast called the credit markets and nobody controls them. and if they decide this ten,

20-day things means a downgrade in our credit, it's something we won't recover from for a decade. so we need to avoid that at all costs. we need to try to come up with an agreement that every side can meet and get some majority in both houses. and i just reiterate, if you are going to try to please the 80 or 100 hard right people in the house who really don't care if we don't raise the debt ceiling who have not given one inch in terms of their negotiates position, it's a recipe for failure. boehner needs to meet with the main stream republicans along with the main stream democrats in the house. >> camera crews following you around in our special inside congress. senator, thanks for coming on. >> thank you. all right, well is the mystical market as senator schumer just called them, are they starting to get skiddish about the lack of a deal.

but today's trivia question, since 1832, how many times as the state with the most electoral race been the loser in the presidential race? it's only wednesday, the answer and more coming up on the daily rundown. follow this twitter feed inside congress. 30,000 congress, really only 3 2r, but that's still a lot is chronicling everything inside congress. it's happening today. follow the twitter feed.

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waiting to see if the market actually reacts about all the scare talk that's coming out of washington. and the market is going to open lower but only by about 27 points, at least that's the way things stand for the dow. but you are seeing a little bit of nervousness coming into these other markets. when people get scared, they run to things like gold and gold hit an all-time high yesterday. they're up another $8 and change today. that's one place the fear is playing out. the other place is the dollar markets, the currency markets. people are selling dollars as they hear the talk that's coming out of washington. yesterday the dollar hit a 2011 low versus the yen and today the dollar is down once again to the yen. so you are seeing some of the skiddishness working in. people think we'll get some sort of a deal done. but the nerves are starting to get a little thin.

>> you and me both, becky, i think we're all just make it stop. next the triumphant return of this, that's right, the politifact folks, we're going to get more than that, but we'll see the truth breaking out. plus there's news out of the united states today, could my chance of meeting a real life alien be gone? ♪ birds flying high ♪ you know how i feel ♪ sun in the sky ♪ you know how i feel ♪ breeze drifting on by ♪ you know how i feel [ female announcer ] weight watchers, rated #1 best plan for weight loss by u.s. news and world report. join right now and you can join for a dollar.

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the score on the reid plan says it would cut $2.2 trillion from the deficits over the next fife years, that's about $2 trillion less than harry reid

claimed. about half of the $2.2 trillion in savings comes from the drawdown of the war so. that means his new cuts after the drawdown of the wars is just over a trillion dollars. both of these are lower because of what you heard congresswoman emerson said about the baseline starting from january of this year rather than march of this year. remember during the government shutdown scare, they did create a new baseline and a new benchmark, so the cbo starts with the new numbers in march than going back to january. democrats fan. uk officials stopped their expulsion by recognizing the rebels transitional government.

gadhafi supporters were joined by the lockerbie bomber, al-megrahi. it's been two years since he was released after a terminal diagnosis of prostate cancer and he only had a few months to live, remember that? kandahar's mayor was killed by a suicide bombing that was hidden beneath his turbine. the congressional hispanic caucus chairman luis gutierez was arrested to halt deportations. he's been a critic of the house's immigration policy. this is his second arrest in 14 months. physicists from princeton and the university of tokyo have panned the drake theory.and at s have wasted all this money on setti if you know what that is.

tempers have been flaring across washington as the deadline nears, but do our political leaders stick to the facts? all right, william. how are you doing, sir? >> doing great. >> you have a lot of fodder here. >> it's just been nonstop, i bet probably 2/3 of our work has been on claims about the deficit, the budget, one way or another. >> let's start out with those monday evening addresses, we're going to start with speaker boehner, here's what he said. >> last week the house passed such a plan and with bye partisan support. it's called the cut, cap and balancing act. >> obviously talking about a plan that would deal with this crisis, deal with the long-term problems, you rated his comment as? >> we're looking specifically at his claim about bipartisan support. we rated that barely true on our

truth-o-meter, we're changing that today to mostly false they really are the same thing and it just is how we describe them. >> basically saying it's more false than true? >> exactly and the reason is bipartisan support was five democrats. >> sort of the same three or four guys who vote with boehner all the time? >> exactly. and this is not a bipartisan coalition as you have been led to believe. this is one of the oldest tricks in washington to claim more support than you have. >> when do we call something bye partisan? is it ten members, ten? let's go back to the president and what he said on monday night. >> in the past raising debt ceiling was routine. since the 1950s, congress has always passed it and every president has signed it.

president reagan did it 18 times. george w. bush did it seven times. >> routine but something i thought. >> in this case we were rating his numbers and the numbers were right. and i think it is pretty telling that before were you even aware when congress raised the debt ceiling? and we rated this true. and the surprising thing for me was under obama congress has actually raised the debt ceiling three times. >> already? >> already, so here we have this epic fight. >> it goes to the argument that republicans say, hey, we have done it three times which means the average raise, two years would be a surprisingly large raise for the debt ceiling, normally it is eight, nine months, maybe 18 months type deal. >> you look at reagan who raised it 18 times in his presidency. >> let's go to the presidential

race and this is something we know that michele bachmann and tim pawlenty this week have been going back and forth. she issued a statement over the weekend that said this, governor pawlenty said in 2006, the era of small government is over, the government has to be proactive and more aggressive. and of course pawlenty's folks didn't like that bachmann brought this up but was she right? >> we rated this mostly true on the truth-o-meter. pawlenty noted that when he was quoted as saying that in an interview in the star tribune that he was quoting david brooks from a david brooks column. that particular quote was taken out of context, pawlenty argued and the newspaper issued a clarification. but if you read the interview, pawlenty talked -- >> the sentiment was factual.

>> very much. and government needs to be more active. >> we know you're going to be some pawlenty statements, later today, you'll have some some of the pawlenty barbs back and forth. i have noticed it's actually gotten more truthful around here, why is that? >> in the debt debate there's been more responsible dialogue. >> you've got to be kidding me, irresponsible abilities to get things done, but the dialogue's been responsible? >> the truth index is flirting with positive territory. >> how about that, bill adair, editor-in-chi editor-in-chief. it is only wednesday, the hump day panel is going to talk about developing news, we just talked about the cbo scoring of the harry reid plan. and is mitt romney counting his

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a bomb tore at the heart of atlanta today and the olympic games early this morning. >> it was on this day in 1996 that a pipe bomb laysed with nails exploded in centennial olympic park. which of course lead to that horrible richard jewel incident. it had nothing to do with mr. jewel. it's one year from today when the 2012 olympic games will open in london. we're going to be all over it to celebrate the city mowed the grass at the olympic stadium.

you can watch all of the games on nbc from now and the rest of our lives. can speaker boehner rebound from yesterday's embarrassment? can the president get back into the fight? let's ask our political panel, kevin madden served as a spokesman for the mitt romney 2008 presidential campaign. karen benner is msnbc political an us and kerry baker is a columnist. kerry let me talk to you on this. you guys have been doing some outstanding reporting in the "washington post," you guys today talk about that reid and boehner are talking that they're actually pretty close. where do things that stand as far as you guys know? >> they are moving toward some

kind of broader -- they're much closer, their two plans are not as far away. those people have, reid and boehner are much closer in terms of where we're headed in the next few weeks, i think. >> kevin madden, before you were a mitt romney guy, you were a john boehner guy, you were a spokesman for john boehner. today this is always an embarrassment, in many ways the cbo coming out making him having to refigure the numbers, that helped and bought him an extra day? >> when you watch this whole showdown be unveiled, john is one of the most medical politicians that i have ever worked for. he is not going to get very rattled by a cbo estimate that has $850 instead of the 1.2. >> congresswoman emerson said he's not changing the cuts, he's changing the debt ceiling because he doesn't want to get too far away from reid. >> and he's going to do what he can to find the right numbers

that he can start to satisfy the conference and then he's going to go back to what he's done this entire time, growing the vote, finding where is one more vote, one more vote, so it actually leads up to something he can bring to the floor. >> senator schumer said they're not going to start the clock, they're not going to try to jam in a vote in the senate. they want to use it as sort of the last gasp vehicle. but at some point, everybody's looking for leverage here. >> sure. >> but at some point, when should democrats say, you know what? no, start the clock, let's go, let's try to pass this bill. the cbo score today is going to look good in comparison, they have more cuts than boehner. >> that's right. >> and even when you take away the war count, you take away the savings from the war, they have arguably the upper hand on spending cuts. >> schumer has to say that publicly, but privately, this

idea that these guys are actually a little bit closer together. harry reid, mitch mcconnell, they're pragmatists. they're trying to figure out, yes, maybe they're still looking at the long-term, they're also looking at how are we going to get this done? the president's talking about the big deal t grand bargain, in politics that's what he needs to do. but in congress, they're asking what can you put on the table? >> mcconnell said we're not going to help you pass this thing, but at some point he may signal that if boehner's running into trouble and he can't get to 217 at this point first, he will speak, he will act and he is the guy here. >> he's the guy to solve this. >> let his people go. >> exactly. >> he's saying you need to get something done, we need to move past a perfect deal and move to

what deal is achievable. today we'll know at the end of the day how far they are from the 217, 218. >> very quickly, kevin, that's the key and if boehner, he'll signal, he's never bring this vote to the floor if it's going to lose, will he? >> the other thing about john, he listens to everybody within the conference, but he also has a really good ear for where the caucus is, he knows where there's some democratic votes as well. should he lose 10 or 15 votes. >> the inevitability campaign of mitt romney. since 1832 how many time has the state with the most electoral votes picked the loser in the presidential race? the answer is nine, new york accounts for six of those including those we already talked about, duey in '48 and humphrey in '68.

california has had the most electoral votes has accounted for the last three. don't forget to follow inside congress for the latest updates on this incredible day to be doing this. brian reports a day in the life of capitol hill. i swear to god, everybody agreed this would be the day months ago and here we go. they said i coult above my weight class. but i did. they said i couldn't get elected to congress. but i did. ♪ sometimes when we touch ha ha! millions of hits! [ male announcer ] flick, stack, and move between active apps seamlessly. only on the new hp touchpad with webos. and i owe my great hair to head & shoulders. it gives me a healthy scalp and great looking hair.

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let's bring back our panel now, kevin madden and perry bac bacon. it's the inevitability campaign of mitt romney. he was floating vp candidates, talked about bob mcdonnell, he was in virginia, ding, ding,

ding. chris t christy and marco rubio and then whatever state you travel in and then this brings up, though, kevin madden. this is something romney said a couple of weeks ago during a stop in new hampshire that got some people raising their eyebrows. >> i'll probably be back in four years. >> that would be great. >> this time it will be a larger group and probably have secret service. >> well, there you go. so, kevin, and you know the other thing is he's campaigning today in ohio. he doesn't -- iowa, ohio. maybe the travel agent got it cost. we thought you said ohio, sir. this inevitability campaign, it can work for a time. it worked for george w. bush, but he still -- >> what's really important about the states. >> he's trying to lower expectations.

>> those are states where he's actually raising money and when he's there he can actually make an economic argument. if you look at places . >> battle grounds states where the economy is slow and you can take the argument to president obama. that is what he is doing. republican primary voters in new hampshire or south carolina or wherever, they want somebody to take the fight to obama on the economy. that is why the voters see that. you sigh it in the headlines. >> you do not work for mitt romney. you are a public supporter of his. karen finney, 20 years ago, could you do these things and when you fund raise, you did not have to do public events. he is in the states because he is raising money. he is not in the states to campaign. you do feel the need to campaign. base voters do not like it. they told hillary clinton when she are tried to do this, stop it. this is where it gets tough. >> my read on what he is doing

is i'm going to have enough money to wait it out strategy. that is what we are seeing. that seems to be the plan. my former boss tried inevitability did not work. >> eventually it did work. he did get the nomination at the end. >> and how did that work out in the general election? >> i want to put up, we teased this. cross roads is up. this is the republican group up with a new ad. quick clip of it. we can show fast. we will not play the audio. we are running out of time. it talks about president obama. they are tying to get him to own the dysfunction in washington as it is republicans that are taking on more water. >> this is smart. this is where the republican romney is saying. that is the obama's fault.

this mess is obama's fault. whether voters believe it or not is the question. it is tying into 2012. >> kevin, the china scare tactics there. it is a fine line to be walking here. business partner of the united states. >> if you go and you look at it. many of these persuading voters. i was shocked. in pennsylvania, they all agree on china. >> you see them in primary campaigns. >> both sides. >> quickly, shameless plugs. >> colin hill. the head of the republican party. >> rush will have something to say. >> breaks in the washington why p companies are not hiring. the unemployment and job creation. a great story. >> money not hiring. >> the rnc's web site has a new ad out. they are argue against barack

obama. >> look at you. >> kevin and karen and perry, thank you for this edition on the rundown. we will see you tomorrow. coming up next is chris jansing and company. don't miss andrea mitchell reports. then follow congress. an unbelievable day here at nbc. see you tomorrow. host: do people use smartphones to do dumb things? man 1: send, that is the weekend. app grapgic: yeah dawg! man 2: allow me to crack...the bubbly! man 1: don't mind if i doozy. man 3: is a gentleman with a brostache invited over to this party? man 1: only if he's ready to rock! ♪ sfx: guitar and trumpet jam vo: geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.

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