the balance necessary steps to put us on path toward fiscal responsibility. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us, chris matthews will be back are you ready for boehner battle of the budget take two? breaking news tonight, the speaker makes radical changes to get tea party support. folks, he did move the goalpost. he moved the whole stadium. four days from default and calls are growing to envoc the 14th amendment. should the president make the move? plus, the republicans at fox news, created a monster. it is called the tea party. and now, it's coming back to bite them. and the real shark week is happening on discovery and inside of congress.

welcome to the show, i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, breaking news once again, which is moments away from a house vote on speaker boehner's debt plan. the vote he failed to do last night because tea party republicans reviews to get in line. after that embarrassment, boehner revote wroet his bill to make it even more extreme adding, listen to this, a balanced budget amendment that would cripple social security and medicare. it's shocking new evidence that the tea party extremists now control the gop. and they would rather drive the economy off the cliff than than compromise. let's go to nbc's luke russet live on capitol hill. luke, is boehner certain that he has the votes this time? >> he absolutely is, reverend al. i spoke to a few gop aides before i came over here and throughout the day. it was basically widespread

knowledge that if boehner did not have the votes for this proposal after he specifically reconfigured it to adhere to the desires of the more conservative part of his conference, then he would have been in deep trouble as a leader. he absolutely gave them what they wanted, with this balanced budget amendment. the center piece of the last debt for the extension they passed called cut, cap and balance. it is absolutely in this bill and will allow him to get more than 216 passed for the hearing -- >> wait a minute. they said he would be in deep trouble. he is in deep trouble. he couldn't call his vote last night. the whole world knowes he had to go all the way to the right. he didn't move the goalpost, he moved the whole stadium about three blocks to the right. he looks like not like a speaker but a whisperer now. how can anybody take him seriously? he can't deliver. >> pel, for the third time in three days, there is a different boehner debt extension bill. the first one on wednesday

didn't cut enough. they tried to change it last night. we were here late into the night. today is the third time. i guess the third time is the charm. the one save willing grace for john boehner is that both his top deputy eric cantor, ef inmccarthy, there is talk of this cantor-boehner rivalry, they were heavily vested just as much as john boehner was. so it is not as if he was being flanked by someone close to him. all of this is for not. it will be tabled by harry reid and the question then becomes what can larry reid work on with senate republicans as a compromise, acceptable to them and get out of the senate and come back here to the house. where it is ultimately passing with the congressional -- >> a lot of it you're right is all theatric. but look how extreme this is. it is really, really scary. what he's proposing is, now, mind you, this is what he had to go to from his original point

that you're right, this is his third cut at this. now he wants first senate cuts. $917 billion. second cuts, 1.8 trillion wp would a balanced budget amendment second that limit vote around christmas. now, get this, you have to have a balanced budget amend many passed by both houses and rat nie the states before gu to second debt cut. is that your understanding of his proposal? >> the understanding is that a balanced budget amendment would have to pass, be pulled out of the house and senate and good to the states to ultimately be ratified in the constitution. >> that's before we can get the second debt cut. >> correct. before the second debt extension. >> is there any information that they really had pizza last night? >> yes. i saw the boxes being wheeled in personally. >> what was in the pizza? because something is wrong with

them if they think they did k get this passed. so maybe it's the pooh yaez guy we need to be checking out. >> that is someone at papa john's could have tainted that pizza i guess. >> i didn't say papa john's. that was luke. let me ask you this, too. part of the rhetoric, we just saw, the speaker made this passionate statement in the house, and he said that the president has never put a plan on the table. but i'm confused. and luke you know these things better than me. help reverend al out here. he said the president never put a plan on the table. the president a week ago tonight started laying out, what he put on table. and just in case i thought the president was making it up, boehner came back and said the president moved the goalpost. well, if he never set goalposts, how did he move the goalpost? >> with the republican position has been all along is that president obama hasn't shown

leadership because he hasn't but a plan down, something tangible. and what president obama has done which is a tactic in negotiating is that he is not putting everything away he wants it put forward because he is not putting anything forward possible. but it has allowed this wedge to develop where republicans can criticize him and they have done it all day on twitter saying, well, here is our plan, where's yours. >> sounds childish to me. i wrote mine down, you didn't write yours down. what's it matter? what are you saying. >> the main thing, coming out of washington, if you look at the polling numbers are just so dissatisfied with the both sides, view this as a complete be a dication of responsibility and not what a democracy is all about. it is a one-third of one-half of the house of representatives, just trying to bring everything to the furtherest part of the

right side. and john boehner tried to compromise with the president. he mentioned in his speech he took his neck out. will acknowledge they are dealing with a very powerful force in the newly elected numbers that prohibited from doing some of the things you have seen in washington in a long time which is a big deal. >> i have to leave it there, luke. >> okay. sounds good. >> thank you so much. and check out that pizza for me. maybe he is sticking his neck out for the pizza. >> all right wp take care. >> joining me now former pennsylvania governor ed rendell now nbc news political analyst and bob shrum at new york university, thank both of you for being with us tonight. i mean, it seems to me, aside from the fact that this is dead on arrival at the u.s. senate according to senator reid and dead on arrival in fact, the

move this all the way now to where we are talking about, the balance budget amendment has to be passed through both houses and states have to ratify it. i mean, this governor ren dell is gone from bad to worse. >> it is an embarrassment. i mean, this bill is an embarrassme embarrassment. they couldn't have the second debt limit raised even if they wanted to. it is an absolute embarrassment. i think speaker boehner might have been better biting the bullet and losing on a semi reasonable plan. but i think this embarrasses him. it embarrasses his party. the only way it settle for harry reid and mitch mcconnell and other in the senate is to pass a reasonable spending reduction and spend it back to the house where enough demjanjuk krats where enough democrats, reasonable democrats, pass it. >> how does mr. boehner come out

of this unscathed. bun of the things that is really interesting is that 134 some of the republicans and right-wingers are trying it act as though that for somehow the president is losing here, isn't the big loser here boehner who had to change three times and now he has come back clearly, gone all the way, almost a political captive, of the tea party? >> al, i think you're absolutely right. he is a big loser. but he was afraid he would be an even bigger loser. which is why they changed the bill. i think he felt that if last night he brought it to a vote and he lost, that the tea party types, a lot of other people in the republican party bo come after his speakership. look, this pizza legislation today and ed rendell is right, it is not going anywhere, you're absolutely right. in fact, john mccain said conditioning the debt limit increase on a balanced budget amendment is a fraud. this legislation odd todd isn't

about saving the full faith and credit of the united states, it is about saving john boehner's speakership. >> the final vote, they are actually voting right now on this third plan now that would call for even more cuts that would call for a balanced budget to pass both houses and go to the states. didn't have to be ratified for the states before they raise the second limit but it would have to pass oath houses and they are voting right now live this is the main vote that expected to pass. after the speaker, who i'm calling now the whisperer, because he is not allowed to speak, because the tea party is in charge of that clearly now, and they are going through the motions that will, if all indications are correct, mean nothing because it'll get to the senate and that will be as far as it goes. the confusion around this

governor rendell is something that troubles me. you know, my mother used to tell me that if you get in an argument with two crazy people on the corner, you start looking crazy in the argument and the problem is, with all this confusion, does the president and others look bad only because the people not on the beltway, looking at washington, is totally dysfunctional. and everybody that is supposed to be in charge starts it look dysfunctional to them. >> to some extent, that's true, al. obviously people are ticked off at everyone down in d.c. right now. but the polls have, i think, uniformly shown in the last ten days to two weeks, that the president comes out best of all as being the adult in the room wh wanted to putting to a balance plan that would really deal with the long-term deficit and debt problemer with facing. >> so i think the president will come out the winner and he will be the winner in 2012.

let me tell you. the average independent, moderate democrat wp moderate republicans that are left, they are looking at this performance by the tea party and by the capitulation of the majority republican party to the tea party and they say, oh, my god, we can't have this governing our country. >> well, i think bob, and we're watching the vote. you're looking at the tally and i predict you're watching the republican vote themselves out of serious consideration to govern. is a wake up grandma, and watch the republican party vote themselves out of the political main stream. you're watching the party go down the drain live right now. i think that bob let me put this question to you, do you think that president, if they cannot reach a compromise, would and

should go forward the 14th amendment no matter what they are saying in terms of whether there is a legal question there or not. should he call and challenge the courts to stop in. >> well, i don't think he should do that until this whole process played itself out. i think were he to say right now, that he was going to do it he would actually reduce the risk of compromise. bit way, i don't share the general assumption that well certainly get to a compromise. i think there's a real possibility of he can fault here. >> no question. >> if that about to happen then i think the president should use his 14th amendment power and frankly i don't see how congress for example, suing him, the house of representatives would be able to get what we call standing in the courts. that is that they have suffered some sorlt of individual harm which gives them the right to challenge his action. >> al, let me just say. let me interject what bob said. bob by i don't even think it is a matter of can he be sued.

on monday on al's show when we were talking about this, as governor, my general counselor, a very bright woman by the name of barbara adams. she could wo say, governor i'm not sure it is legal or i'm not sure it isn't legal. he would say, barbara, i'm sure it is in the best interest of people of pennsylvania. so kwo go ahead. if they sue us and we lose, then we lose and that is what leadership is about. we shouldn't be called in to play, and i don't believe it'll but if it does. >> ed rendell, democratic strategist bob shrum, have a great weekend. >> with you now, democratic senator from maryland. senator, thank you for joining us. they are voting on the house floor on this far right rad tal proposal.

i think it's really a historic vote because i think the implications. be the demise politically for a long time of the republican party. am i wrong? >> al, this is an extreme partisan effort, a breach. i can tell you this, as soon as it gets to the senate we will get rid of it. it's not going it pay us, the senate and we will end the debate on this issue to get down to serious talk about how to raise the debt ceiling and deal with our deficit. this is not a serious pro possessal, it's not gooding it happen. >> like congressman alan west calling the chair of the dnc a vile person and she wasn't acting lady like. now he is saying that you got to deal with tea party

schizophrenia. this is alan west. they're talking about giving ham primary. i have never in all mif years seen such an extreme group be able to, in many ways, just hijack a main stream party. >> well, the main tragedy here is that speaker boehner didn't reach out to democrats. there was no efforts made for a bipartisan agreement in house of representatives. quite frankly, i have talked to my republican colleagues in the senate. i think we could resolve all these issues. but the main obstacle, the republicans in the house, that want it their way or the highway and what they are presenting right now, won't fly. >> well, they need 216 vote now. and again, i think that the extreme here, when you're talking about the cuts they're talking and how it affects med medicare and others, the

american people are seeing where they are and they are being pushed to the brink by the tea party. and i think that this is something that real leadership that speaker boehner had that, should have said, wait a minute. i've go to the stop no matter what the cost. i've got to stop my party from going over the cliff here. >> al, i couldn't agree with you more. let me just make one other point here. american people want predi predictabili predictability. they want to behind us. they want to know we can move forward and create jobs and do the business of the nation. and this debt ceiling issue, if speaker boehner has his way, we will deal with it again in a few months. it doesn't put it behind us. we have to put it forward in creating jobs for the people of this country. >> he said it would be around christmas time but after it goes before both senate and house with the balanced budge the amendment. this is incredibly far right.

and incredibly a real, real, real political miscalculation. but forgetting the politics hurts people. look what it will do to seniors and look what it will do to a lot of people that depend on the government. senator, if we go into default, if we can't work out a compromise when the senate kills this bill, i mean, all of the kinds of pipgs that impact it by default, i think people don't understand on the ground how we will suffer from this and we are talking about two or three days from now. >> all-americans will suffer. paying higher in taxes because interest rates will go up. people in my state of maryland will pay higher in state taxes. it will effect mir land's credit rating. it will impact rates or credit cards. it will effect your ( 401(k0 and savings. it'll cost jobs. it makes no sense whatsoever and

we are held hostage by an extreme group in the house of representatives. >> senator, thank you for joining us. i would say have a great weekend but i'm sure you will be working here and doing great work for us. thank you. let me bring back democratic strategist bob shrum. bob, there vote is going down. we are just about three votes away from them passing this. what does this mean and how do we go from here? how do we proceed from here? >> well, one, they're proving something the republican strategist said to me today. this is no longer the republican party, it's the crazy party. you're right, boehner is not a leader, he is a follower. he is kind of the dummy to their ventriloquist. number two, i think this gol to senate. harry reid will make a motion. it'll be tabled. they will then come up with another bill they will try to work with the republicans on. and we have to hope that if the senate can pass that and it goes

back to the house, boehner is willing to put that bill up there so that sensible republicanets and there are some, and democrats can vote for it. you know what we need here al -- >> you are right to point out dem kralts. because notice the vote you have 214 republicans, two votes way fwr this. not one democrat vote for this. not one. >> nancy pelosi held on to her caucus. not even the blue dog democrats as you point out. not one conservative democrat voted for it. and apparently, mr. boehner is following the tea party where as ms. pelosi has been able to show leadership. >> yeah. this is more ka bookie theater than legislation. people have said all day -- >> let me interrupt you. we have enough votes to pass. 218 votes. they are passed the boehner

extreme plan and in all fairness to mr. boehner pb this was the hijacked plan he was forced to, not one democrat, not one, has voted for this. this is now passed through the house. it will go forward. you know, bob, when i was a little boy i used to love tea and now i drink coffee. you are know why i gave up tea? one day i put the tea bag in and it burst and i didn't like all of the tea leaves all over the hot water. i think the tea bag just burst tonight on the american people. it is nasty when it is out of the bag. they are out of the bag new. because everybody has to look at this and say, what are you talking about. >> yeah, i think that's right, reverend. look, they made a deal with the devil in 2009. now they are living with that. think think when they go into next yar's election, ed rendell

is right. they 8 look at this and even despite the cold conditions, people are going to say, these folks can't govern. the truth is, if you hate the government, you can't run it. and we are seeing that proved again tonight. >> well, hold on a minute, bob. i want to bring some people in with us. trs let's bring in political reporter from the washington post. and ryan grim, washington bureau chief from the huffington post. let's start with you mr. grim, no pun intended, but it's a grim night. >> the only thing that happened today is that john boehner livers to fight another day now. this will go to the senate. it will be -- you know, and actually yesterday some house republicans were saying, you know, if the senate is going to try to kill this thing immediately maybe we won't send it to you for while. the senate said we will just

print it off the internet, slap it on another bill and reject it. that's how badly we want to vote this sum r sucker down. now a constitutional amendment. are you serious? ? it is going to be hifrtry -- it is already dead. the vote is still going on. it hasn't even been gathered yet. >> i don't understand how he says he -- boehner lived it fight another day. i think this is laughable what they cover up with. >> i can certainly count it as victory with his party among the kaungus, tea party folks and the rest of the republicans who gave this a thumb's up. as ryan said, it will kbo to senate and it has no chance of going anywhere. the conversation has been whether boehner has the power, of leader, a speaker to lead his party. again he today go to folks in the tea party and bargain with them. and as you've been saying it looks like these 80 or so frerk

freshmen and handed this to boehner are vicker to yours tonight. >> that's my point, bob. you've been in this in a long time p, when a speaker is humiliated where he is within an hour of a vote and has to back away from the vote, arg an all night and come out with a totally different plan, there's no way bob shrum, you can make this look like a victory or a moment where he was empowered. it is clear here he has been forced way beyond where even he wanted to go. >> is yeah, i think that's right. for him the definition of victory is survival. as of last night people said he can't pass this thing. there are people in the wings like eric cantor would would like it take it away from him. right now it is probably for the most secure. but he did it by an act of appease many p.m. what he did is

go to the tea party, give into this pour'rous demand. you know, if the boehner bill became law you would see the markets in terrible shape. i think the u.s. would lose its triple a credit reading. they know that constitutional amendment is never going last so we go into a crisis in december. >> where do we go from here? senate stops at -- they go to the table, how play out, how does this play out in your opinion? what does the president do and how involved must he become in trying to frame a compromise once the senate stops-ksh it's built. >> reverend the senate is already indicating it will start to do what the senate loves to do, which is sit down with a bunch of serious people and compromise.

you can put seer yot in quotes here opinion but squot and lisa both indicated today they are willing to work with reid. that gets you up to 55 republicans -- i mean, 55 votes. you can assume that two main senators don't want the world to explode. that gets you up to 57 mp now you are within range of 60. so it becomes possible and the horse trading starts. the deal making begins and you might end up with about half of the senate republicans in play. you could conceivably pass this with 70 tore 80 votes. it then goes back to the house and it is up to boehner to bring it to the floor. and test, you know, test the metal of the tea party and his own. because bringing it to the floor could be fatal for him in terms of his speakership. >> if it goes back and he can't bring it through again, betting on his record would be something i don't want to do.

nia, i see you want to get in. >> yes. this is another test of his leadership. we have seen this, him going to the tea party and giving into the demands. so, yes, we will see him have to do that again. whether or not he is able to make the deal and close this out, in time for tuesday, august 2nd, we will have to see. you will see the senate step in as the adults in the room. as cooler. that's the reason you have the senate. the house obviously is a little bit, you know, to the rest. a lot to the right in the sense of these 80 house freshmen are really holding this bill up for a wild. of course getting their way to flight so we will see the senate come in. and the white house is playing some role here calling back and forth and you saw the president step out earlier this morning and say they were close to a compromise. >> let me ask ryan, you are plugged in on the hill better

than most. in the media. do you feel, are you hearing or in the sources that you have talked to, telling you, that there is the real possibility after compromise from the republican side in the senate, to the democrats that they think they can get through the house, given these 80 hard right tea parties? >> yes. absolutely. the senate is in compromise mode. no question about that. the tea party is finished. as of this vote they can now leave the room. they are no longer relevant to this debate. everybody knows they will vote against whatever comes back from the senate. and they can go ahead and have the principles and vote against it. what will go past this is one made up of a hundred or so republicans and a hundred or so democrats. it is what people have been saying for months, but with the

last few weeks with everything blowing up, it seemed less likely. discarding this, paradoxically gets us closer to a type of compromise. it might not make sense but this is actually strangely a victory for a compromise. because now we can forget p b this constitutional amendment. we can forget about the tea party and move through something with something. it will have a major amount of cuts. >> no question. >> but that's what washington is strumming for. >> it'll have cuts and no revenue which people like me are not going to be jumping up and down clapping p b. >> i'm not jumping up and down about it either. but the truth of the matter is, if we can get pennsylvania papa barack obama a s re-elected and i think we will, we will have the revenue. they expired automatic there on december 31 next year. to get to the point ryan is

talking about, we need one other step. john boehner will have to decide that sometime tea party loyalty asks too much. we will have to bring that senate bill to the floor of the house. if he doesn't the entire responsibility for default would lie on him and the republican party. i think would he make what happened to newt gingrich, if i may use the phrase again, look like a tea party. compared to the government shut down, the falling on its full faith of credit, huge impact on the markets, if they ever they can call off the 2012 elections. >> i think the tea party bag burst but if we go into default, the question is, and it is a scary question, can can john boehner, if it goes back to him, can he deliver those hundred votes out of republicans that ryanes says we need in order tore this to pass the house and will he be able to get enough republicans to stand up against

these tea party guys? >> i think he has it peel away the remaining moderate republicans there. four months ago when john boehner took the speakership, that initial conversation was that this would have to be raised and that these -- the freshmen and other ruches have to be adults in the. that's the what they have to argue, the republicans there. you almost have a situation where the coalition of 80 or so republicans were allowed to have their moment in the sun. allow to claim a victory here. allow to go back to their constituents and say they voted. they stood strong on the principles that we have. now the hard part begins with the sun senate coming in and the final vote out of house. >> ryan, what disturbs me more than anything is that they succeeding in changing the conversation to where they want to. we're not taking about jobs.

we're not talking about how we deal with those things that seniors need, and education needs in the country. we are really have r left in the position where we are acting like we want something. if we get no revenue, if we have things that are at risk that we have fought for, and begined in the last five or six decades in this country, i mean we haven't won anything. we are almost fighting hard to like go backwards at a slower pace. >> that's exactly what is going on here. the economy is growing. you know, we found out today about a 1.2% pace. that's anemic. it meets stimulus. it doesn't need cuts. that's is coming from ben bernanke. ben bernanke is dramatically to the left of where congress is right now. that's a striking statement. bob was talking about 2012 and how this could be damaging for republicans. but what are democrats bringing into 2012s that's any question. >> we are for austerity but a

little less than republicans. we want to raise taxes too. i don't get where that is a winning argument. we are like republicans but just not as bad. >> that's not how i put the argument. i think we want to protect medicare, social security and we think the rich should pay their fair share of taxes. >> again, that is not what is being debated here. that is not what is on the table. i think the problem here that we will have on the democratic side, bob, is that what is our message that we stop them from doing worse but you still don't have any jobs and we still aren't able to do the things we want to do. how do you sell that and get the turn out we are going to need? >> well that message wouldn't work at all. i think the message has to be that the republicans, tea party people came in, they did

everything they could to destroy the recovery. there is a ryan pled care plan that would cost every senior in the country $6500 every year. those are the choices. we ought to demand sacrifice where the wealthy pay their fair share. it is a harry truman message from 1948 and i think we could win opinion if you say we are for austerity but a different kind. if you don't talk about what happens in real people's lives then we can't prepale. those we might in front of this group of clowns. >> i don't know why a democrat should share its sacrifice. more than half have been sacrificing a couple hundred years. but more to the point, in harry reid's bill, is a -- what they are calling a super committee which we are calling super congress is, you know, this legislative branch that's being created, that will attack entitlements. so the idea that democrats can

say they are protecting social security today while setting up a committee that is then going to recommend kits to social security and medicare and have those cults fast track through congress. no amendments within sust up or down vote. so the republican medicare plan is worse but the democratic committee is -- >> well i think -- i've got to go. but i think ryan raised a good point. we have heard singh since regan trickled down theory we never got our trickle. now we are hearing shared sacrifice. all we get is a vac sigh nice and it doesn't look like anybody is sharing. thank you bob. that's exactly right. nia-malika, ryan, thank you. all of you have a good a weekend as you can sb i'll put it that

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welcome back it the show. just to recap, the house of representatives passed the boehner plan, the last boehner plan, that has called for the judgment of myself and others, a very radical right type of position. and it has passed without one single democratic vote. this is the position that the tea partiers forced speaker boehner into, which delayed the vote last night and sent him back to the drawing boards to come back with a more right-wing, far right amight say, radical proposal.

join meg now is sirius xm host joe madison. back with us is nia-malika henderson from the washington post. and rory cooper from the heritage foundation. our next question, who is the biggest loser in the debt debacle. today she wrote, quote, he's not a devil a heldon, socialist. he is a loser. and this is america where nobody loves a loser. and then she defended that provision today. >> whatever the republicans are doing now and however it's going to work out, he does not look good. he is not enhanced himself. >> when it comes to the debt crisis the speaker approval is less than president obama.

rory, he can't even control the junior members of his party. >> i think it is a tie. if you look at the facts on the ground. 1.3% growth in gdp is dismal. 9.2% unemployment. harry reid can't get any bills out of the senate and no budget. if you judge what progress is happening the president of the united states has been on had side lines for this entire debate. not leading. leading from behind issues. >> if you watch the news, and not just getting cue cards from the right, the president last week was the one waiting to meet. mr. boehner walked out. he made certain proposals and he couldn't get his party to support the proposal. he today go back to the drawing board three times. joe madison, what are we talking about revote. it took the speaker all week to get his party to vote for his

bill and he today redo it three times. >> three times in three days. and he obviously miscalculated. and, look, he knows very well that he is being controlled by, i don't know what number is now, 63 or 87, some fresh freshmen, the reality is, that's not senior leadership. you know, noonian also said something that president obama was sly. you know, sly as a fox. she reminds me of the kids in the classroom who don't like the smart kid. she confuses being sly with being smart. he is very smart. and the reality is, how does a loser get on television and say, call your congressmen and senator and the switch boards blow up. losers don't get -- >> of course the president gets

on television across the nation and tells people to call their congress. because he doesn't have plan for himself. so he has to send people to congress. >> hold on, hold on, don't ask act like the republican caucus. i'm in charge here. if the president doesn't have a plan then what plan is boehner saying he moved the goalpost on. >> he is moving the goalpost on negotiations. >> he is saying the president changed the plan. how could he change a plan that didn't exist. there were things on table. the president laid out specific with of 1.2 trillion year. what he could wo do with discretionary money. >> that is actually not what he did. he didn't add any specifics. when asked the press secretary karny said he couldn't put anything on payable. >> help me. rory are in alternate universes

here. the president walked in at this time last week and specifically said from revenues to discretionary funds to entitlements what the proposal was that was laid out and there f there was a difference between he and boehner. is that not so? >> that is true. he did lay out some vision of what he would accept in terms after plan. there's no plan in writing is what jay carney said, the press second, said a couple of days ago. but this is a lin that the republicans are saying he had no plan of his own. i think what h is about is 2012. has the president helped his argument for reelection. what you will obviously see from the republicans is this argument that president is a big spending liberal, that has exploded deficits under his watch. and i think, while this might not make liberals happy. i think he will say that i did make cuts. i was willing to compromise with republicans. and you know, looking to slash

and look at to entitlement. >> something that confused me that michele bachmann said, that confused me about the republicans using that narrative, do you believe rory that republicans to the right will say the president is a big spending liberal? >> i hate to use numberes with you again but this year obama's deficit willing ten times as it was in 2007. that is just the facts. so you know, it doesn't have -- >> he absolutely is responsible for the spending. a trillion dollar stimulus, obamacare, of course. >> michele bachmann, let me give you a statement by michele bachmann. who is the darling of the tea party and the right. and because she made a very interesting statement to me about -- or not to me, but she made a very interesting statement publicly that to me

kind of really makes you wonder how she, if she is successful in the primaries were even almost successful, can make that argument. when she was being requested about the president and 14th amendment, she said the president doesn't have the authority to do spending. she said that the president cannot super seed congress, its acongress that does the spending. so you can't make one argument that the president -- you can't have it both ways. >> you can. they are two different subjects. whether the president has the ability to raise the debt ceiling and -- >> no, no, no. what i said is you can't say that the president has no ability for spending and then say, but the president has the

ability tore spending. you can't have that. >> it a the 14th amenment issue has nothing to do with the president's spending the last tw years while con sefb tifs put plan after plan after plan forward to cut spending and make -- >> the president has a spending cut on the table. i think reid has put on the table. joe madison and i have argued against this feeling that some of the spending cuts would be a disaster. now we're told that republican side, redone three times, is the answer -- come on, this is krizy rory. >> what's so crazy? we have three bills from the republican house. we have no bills from the senate or president. that is just a fact. we 3/4 reform. we have alternatives were you're right. >> getting 80 guys and ladies in the tea party in line after you

did all of that wolfing about get your butts in line and they got his butt in line. that's not a speaker, that's a squeaker. let's go. joe, nia-thank you. nia, have a good weekend. whoa.

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moments ago, the house of representatives finally passed the boehner plan, and it took a lot to get there because of the tea party. well, the tea party started as a small group of believers in some far right theorys and far right politics. but supported by fox news and millionaires and others, they kept feeding it and feeding it and feeding it. it is now a monster that has come back it get them. that's next.

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we've seen the night that tea partiers are a monster that threatens to the eat the republican party. how did we get here? back in 2009, town halls were being disrupted by what appeared

to be grass root protests against healthcare. turns out republican-backed corporately funded groups were sponsoring speakers and busing people to events when the tea party movement when prime time. >> and celebrate, liberty. >> and freedom. >> and freedom. we taurking about the tea parties going on across the country all day long. >> tea party revolution. >> probably one by you. >> map to show you how widespread they are. comes from newt gingrich's. bam. >> with tea party media stars, none bigger than sarah palin. in her latest facebook post, she is cheering the tea party extreme its on. quote, the new wave of public servants may recall they were sent to d.c. for such a time as this. all my best to you gop freshmen from up here in the last

frontier. those tea party freshmen helped change the balance of power in the mid term elections. and became members of michele bachmann's tea party caucus bp so here we are. the monster is alive. and squeaker, i mean, speaker boehner has no way to control it. joining me is lee fong, investigate ef reporter of think progress. lee, one of the things that is beyond my understanding, ability to understand, is how the tea party leaders initially war saying they wanted to take care of the average american people that needed jobs, and that needed a balanced way of living would never, as they grew into power, question the rich and would fight against taxing them and closing the loop holes. would you begin answering some of those questions? because a lot of where they were getting their funds from was

from the rich that are being protected by not having these loop holes and these tax cuts on the table. the koch brothers, contributed more than $350,000. i mean, you uncovered a lot of hard information here. >> well, sure. and you know to really understand the tea party, forget some of the rhetoric about the revolutionary war or contusionnary or whatever they go on fox news and say, and look at the true drivers of the tea party. just to give you kind after truncated hist rehere, at the end of 2008, strategists and lbyists saw this massive army of obama volunteers and saw how they were pushing reforms. the evangelical base was fatigued, aftering ayears of republican hypocrisy own social values. so working with big industrialists and people on wall street, they went out and

hired organizers. david koch, his group back in january of 200, highered 80 organizers to go across the country. >> when you say organize, their job was to go around the country and organize tea party members and events? >> they were using a lot of same tactics that obama employed, created neighborhood groups, jn line technology. but what they were doing that is different that other social movements is tens of millions in advertising, they had fox news. they were galvanizing people in a very efficient and methodical way. they couldn't tell people, we need the tea party to help us with taxes, they today use conspiracy peps they had to say that health reform is about killing grandma. >> lee, i have to go. thank you so much. this is interesting. we will have you back. think progress, lee