good evening, everyone. i'm thomas roberts. welcome to missneshls coverage of the ongoing debt ceiling debate. in 75 hours the u.s. government may default for the first time in our history unless republicans and democrats can find a compromise to get enough votes to raise the debt ceiling. senator majority leader harry reid is trying to convince enough republicans to sign on to his version of a debt ceiling billing. this has been a day filled with back room negotiations, press conferences. >> the debate over guaranteeing,

insane, never before seen in the history of this country levels of spending, president obama has coolly stood on the sidelines. the president has no plan. only the republicans have offered plans. >> there is absolutely no excuse for this reckless, unpatriotic behavior on the part of the republicans. the republicans led by their tea party radicals are determined to cripple government and destroy medicare, medicaid and social security. >> what i think is not helpful is that the process we're going through here on the senate floor. >> we're here today right now for this reason. it's spelled filibuster. >> the clock is in thing loudly. at this point the worse case scenario is a failure of reid's bill. a vote on that bill is scheduled at 1:00 a.m. coming up tomorrow morning. as soon as we get into the next

day, after we get the midnight tonight. if that happens a new bill would have to be crafted, scheduled for a vote in the senate sometime on monday or tuesday and shift to the house and finally on the president's desk. joining me is chuck todd, chief white house correspondent for nbc news. chuck, bring us up to speed. >> reporter: it's still a lot of talks going on behind the scenes between the white house, vice president biden in particular, senate republican leader mitch mcconnell. you talk to senate democrats, obviously this is sort of a three way conversation a little bit with the white house playing mediator. seems as if some of the relationship between reid and mcconnell has broken down a little bit. that said part of this is mcconnell wanting to make sure publicly it looks like he's dealing with the white house not necessarily harry reid. some republicans who believe mcconnell can cut a better deal

with the president than harry reid. harry reid is determined to put his bill with a bunch of amendments with it, working behind the scenes, particularly the gang of six guys and the chairman of that gang of six who had their own deal on deficit reductions. he's again doing a lot of back channeling. republican by republican. there's two tracks. biden-mcconnell could strike something and get it going. or harry reid goes it alone, picks off these republicans and gets his 60. i don't think he has it yet. let's not rule it out. i know the mcconnell people are trying to say harry reid doesn't have the votes. they have been working this all day long. >> when we look at this, especially for casual observers that will remember the biden talks that fell apart and now we're hearing more about the activity with vice president biden being actively involved with mcconnell, if you were going to say the chances of them coming up with something crafted

together as opposed to what reid has already done what are those chances? >> reporter: there's a good chance they do come up with some agreement. i just don't if it will happen before midnight tonight. we talked about the clock. the clock does matter here. if they can file legislation by midnight tonight, reid would pull his version of this, and shift control a, highlight it, delete it, put it back in, plug in this new legislation they could vote 1:00 a.m. monday morning. get it out of the senate pretty quickly, give up some of their debate time and get it to the house by monday night. if it doesn't happen that way and reid goes ahead and let's say reid does inch along, gets his 60 votes and they keep going but still debating behind the scene, because it may not be clear it can get through the house, even a mode phillips idowu version, so you still have those talks. then maybe they figure out a way to do -- someone said they have

this issue called unanimous consent. ken strickland likes to say the u.s. senate has the power to say the sunrises in the west with unanimous consent. and so, there is a way to get around clocks, speed things up if they absolutely have to. and they are up against it. but right now, two tracks to follow are whether the white house led by biden in this case and mcconnell strike something or harry reid picks it off one republican at a time and gets it through at 1:00 this morning. >> who are the people that reid would be focusing his attention on? >> reporter: we've seen four that are fairly public in that they didn't sign that letter. two republican senators from maine, you have scott brown from massachusetts who is up for re-election in a very blue state that president obama is going to be at the top of the ticket on. lisa murkowski who had her own run ins with the tea party. she didn't sign the letter.

then the next level identify are the former governor, republicans who had been governors. they know what it's like to deal with an unruly legislature. they know what it's like to sale vote, a piece of legislation that isn't perfect. so the senator from nebraska. idaho's senator whose fellow nature is part of the gang six. they could work in tandem. lamar stander, a former governor. bob corker is seen as somebody who is open to a conversation. roy blunt knows when these things are tough. he's somebody. that would be the second level of folks. you start getting to 12, 13, 14 potential targets of senator reid. >> chuck todd in washington tonight. thanks for your time. don't go anywhere. i'll need you later on. i want to turn to congress nan

from new york. he's in studio with me fresh off the train, congressman. i got it right out of washington, d.c. privileged to have you here in the studio. i want to speak specifically about nancy pelosi. do you think she will have the entire democratic caucus ready to go for a compromise, because as we saw today she was pretty fired up in the way she was describing what's going on with boehner. >> it depends on the nature of the compromise. in our caucus today before we agreed to vote for the reid bill, i would say 80% of the people got up and said nothing more to the right than the reid bill. don't move that. that's as far as we're prepared to go. if they have to compromise by making that bill worse i don't know you get too many house democrats to vote for it. >> where's your line in the sand? >> i don't know. i have to to see the bill. i didn't like voting for the reid bill. i characterized it in caucus a few days ago the boehner's bill

is the depths of hell and the reid bill is the outer rings of hell. not very good. >> where are the moderate republicans falling right now? >> they don't exist. >> they don't exist. >> there are none any more. >> give us the tone of what's going on within the republican side. is it this silent tea party, you know, the vocal part of them but there's this -- >> you have to understand what's going on here. in fact this was said on one of the stations the other "today". this is a hijacking of the entire system of the american government. the debt ceiling, raising the debt ceiling is something you have to do, not to spend money in the future, but to recognize the debt ceiling occurred in the past as a result of decisions made three and four and five and seven years ago most of them in the bush administration. >> right. with that credit card. >> and not to raise the debt ceiling is to repudiate your previous debts. a government can't do that.

there's never been a serious debate. it's been automatic. both parties have been engaged in cheap demag oumpb gery. now the republicans say -- that's wrong. anti-democratic. it should not be permitted at all. >> they represent the people that sent them there? >> they didn't elect 100% of the house or 100% of the senate. when you have people who have a strong view as they do, you have people on the other side who control the senate and white house with an equally strong view you push your side as hard as you can. but you have to compromise. what you don't do is blackmail the country and say we'll

destroy the economy if you don't go our way. we'll destroy the economy. nice economy. pity something should happen to it. that's an ain't democratic and illegitimate form of negotiation. this entire discussion, which is really a discussion about the future budget shouldn't even take place on the question of the debt ceiling. it should take place when we discuss next year's budget which we'll be doing shortly. what should our spending levels and tax levels be. this is a blackmail and hijack attempt. >> i want to talk to you about the markets because you represent the financial district as part of your congressional district. we saw last week the markets close out on some of the lowest average figures for the week for an entire year. monday morning these markets are going to open back up and the fear of what's going to happen come midnight on tuesday. do you expect a big reaction from wall street on monday morning? >> i don't know if it's monday morning but if this country goes into default there will be a catastrophe on wall street. >> do you think we'll to see

numbers, the dow dropping by 100 points maybe even more on monday? >> i don't know about monday. i don't know if monday. if and when people become convinced that, in fact, no last minute deal, no last minute miracle will occur you'll to see a huge drop. >> in your opinion do you think the president has done enough to make a deal? >> i think he's done everything he could given the absolute stubbornness on the part of the republicans. i've urged he ought to do one thing which he's reluctant to do and that is in the end, all other things failing, he ought to invoke his authority under the 14th amendment. it says, it's never had to be used because nobody ever hijacked the political system of the economy this way before. the 14th amendment section 4 says the validity of the public debt authorized by law shall not be questioned. now, the day after -- the day that a default occurs, the day

after august 2nd or maybe august 5th depending how much money they can manage to put together, the secretary of the treasury will have a choice to make as to which law to break. he can either pay all the bills that come in, but only do that by borrowing money in defiance of the debt ceiling, or he cannot pay the bills and break the anti-impoundment law which says you must spend the money that congress appropriated. congress appropriated x dollars for this and y dollars for that. you must send out the checks. that's the law. if you don't do that you're breaking the law. they will have a choice as to which law to break. there's a lot of authority that says you avoid that choice by insofar as the debt ceiling prohibits you from borrowing and prohibits you from meeting the debts of the united states to that extent it's unconstitutional and therefore shouldn't be enforced by the president. >> hopefully we'll get something

down the pike that everybody can agree on. the compromise that everybody wants to go for. >> given what i've seen in the last seven or eight weeks i'm skeptical that will occur. >> well let you enjoy your weekend you're back in your home state. we want to turn to nbc news andrea mitchell, the host of "andrea mitchell reports" at 1:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. andrea, this is really political chess at its best or worse. have you ever seen anything like this? >> actually no,. i've been around for at that long time and watched a lot of crises get resolved, the t.a.r.p. vote, the most recent example of one where there was a negative vote, the markets crashed then they got scared and came back and voted yes. someone was asking me, someone who works in the white house asked me whether i had seen this kind of thing before. asked me earlier. i said no. in fact if you look back to the 1990s, newt gingrich held the

treasury secretary and bill clinton work out a system where the treasury department would go around the congress to bail out mexico. money that was eventually paid back by the way ahead of schedule. this is after the house rejected it. and the white house argued very persuasively as did the treasury that it was an emergency, that mexico's default would become a major crisis for the american economy as well. and newt gingrich for all the rhetoric of the republican revolution stood at bill clinton's side and with bob rubin and endorsed that. there used to be a time when no matter what the ideological principles of a particular republican or democratic there was a larger mission which was the public good as perceived and we've now gotten to the point as chuck was pointing out the timeline later, this really is the two-minute drill. this is a point beyond which they cannot bend the rules.

you can buy unanimous consent as chuck was saying, do a lot of things. but that unanimous consent has to be unanimous. you have to get let's just say hypothetically sanders and rand paul to sign off of that. you have to have 100 senators agree tight. then you have to get it through the house. >> then this option of sir come venting everybody with the 14th amendment. then also senators harkin, bernie sanders they use their floor speeches to push the use of the 14th amendment. do you think that that is really a viable option on the table? >> the president has said that it's not. the chief of staff has said that it's not. the white house hat rejected that out of hand. a lot of people think if we get down the 11th hour and nothing has been resolved president obama would revert to it. it certainly has been urged to by others, especially from the democratic side that said he

should do that. but so far at least the white house has said they are absolutely not considering it. and don't want to get through -- get into the whole legal challenge told then ensue. this is such a dicey moment. harry reid has to figure out how to sweeten this with more conservative amendments that might help john boehner put together a majority of his caucus than with democratic support to get that through the house, or else go the other direction. but, he's got to figure out how to get something to the senate that can get through the house, and any time he goes too far towards boehner, towards mcconnell, he's going to lose jerry mather and some other house members on the other side. the house democrats will fall into line more easily than will some of the john boehner republicans, especially the 87 freshmen. boehner is meeting with 10 members of the tuesday group the more moderate republicans and

what he's trying to do is come up with a majority of republicans so that he can hold his head up at the end of the day because his speakership very much on the line and if he puts together the numbers that have more democrats than republicans clearly that is going to happen but if there's not at least a majority of his caucus then his leadership is at stake. >> a game that can backfire for a lot of people. andrea, great to to see you. for more on the wild political day in washington, msnbc eugene robinson and democratic strategist will weigh in coming up next. don't go anywhere.

good evening. welcome back. we're continuing to northern the situation on capitol hill and at this hour we're awaiting to to see what will be senate majority leader harry reid's next move. reid called out the republican tactics.

take a look. >> republican leaders still refuse to negotiate in good faith. the speaker and republican leader should say merely we have an agreement in front of television cameras doesn't make it so. >> we have our political analyst from "the washington post" eugene robinson and michael eric dyson and crystal ball. welcome to all three of you. thanks for joining me tonight. eugene, i want to start with you. explain to us what republicans are trying to do especially with the grandstanding we're seeing today with the filibuster. >> what republicans have been doing with this whole episode is using what is generally a routine vote to raise the debt ceiling. it's been done dozens of times in our history, it's not done happily but done routinely.

using that as a lever, as a tool to get more of the republican agenda, which is essentially budget cuts and lower taxes. that's the sum total of the republican agenda. and they are using this as a way to, to leverage huge action on the part of the government at the last minute. these big changes, big cuts in programs, and going forward that are going have repercussions for a lot of people. this really is unprecedented. here in washington the tendency is to think we'll get a deal at the last minute. this time feels a little different. i'm not sure we're going to get a deal at the last minute. we'll to see what happens at 1:00 a.m. >> you made a great point. when it comes down the debt ceiling everybody was on opposite side. now they've come on to common ground realizing there's no

choice it needs to be raised. however what you bring bullpen the cuts and other things that's going on inside are really the sticking points but will reid be able to get the republican support that he needs to move forward or does all of this fall apart? >> well, you know, he's trying to bridge a nine-foot gap with a six-foot bridge. it's hard to imagine the package that is going to be okay with senate democrats and will get through the senate, and is also going to be okay with the tea party republicans or even enough of the republican caucus to provide the votes in the house to get it through. so, i don't know exactly -- we've heard time and again this is the solution, this will work, this deal has been worked out. so far we're here every night

and covering bills that get through and then immediately get killed. but one hopes this isn't the case again tonight. it was the case thursday night and friday night and may be the case again tonight. >> michael, i want to ask you do you think the white house is as engaged as it should be. we know there have been high level conversations today. up to this point do you think the engagement has been there is this. >> well, i think that the white house has strategically sought to be as present as it needs and absent as the situation calls for. what they don't want to do is challenge the authority of congress to negotiate its business while exerting its own tremendous bully pulpit and influence and legitimate authority to say get this thing done. so obama is damned if he does, damned if he done. if he's involved too much then he's accused of meddling in affairs in congress before it gets to his desk. if he's too far lagging behind

then he's leading from behind and as a result he's lambasted for not being aggressive enough. they have to negotiate between these parties. now, it is true that i think that mitch mcconnell tried to do an end run around harry reid by going to joe biden and president obama. is this gesture of disrespect seen as subversive or creative that is going outside of the box to figure out a way to get this thing done. >> crystal, is this just indicative of trying to build a bridge in tea party land that will never work? >> at this point i think we can write off any of the tea partiers as being involved in a final solution. harry reid is trying to find the sweet spot although to me none of these spots are so sweet where you can keep liberal democrats on board and hopefully pull over the full republicans that you need and as we talked about earlier we have four who

have kind of indicated they might support the reid plan. that leaves us three short. there are a few targets there who maybe if we threw in some more conservative amendments could possibly get there. the onus is back on the house. the fact of the matter is what we're going to look at in a final deal if we get to a final deal in the next couple of days is going to have to pass the house with a combination of the democratic caucus and some moderate republicans coming over and making this thing work. >> do you think we'll get to that vote in roughly 3 1/2 hours? >> you know, i'm an eternal optimist. i'm going to say yes but i don't have any reason to justify that. and part of the thing -- the press conference earlier with speaker boehner and leader mcconnell, part of, i think that was trying to show look we're open to negotiations, we're close to something.

that makes it less likely that some of these more moderate republicans will come on board with reid's proposal if they think the leadership is close to another deal which is likely to be more to our liking. so that takes the pressure off of them and makes harry reid's job more difficult. >> thanks. coming up the clock is ticking and the biggest question, will thereabout a deal tonight? will there be a vote even at 1:00 a.m. coming up we'll find out. stay tuned. the bundler. let's say you need home and auto insurance. you give us your information once, online... [ whirring and beeping ] [ ding! ] and we give you a discount on both. sort of like two in one. how did you guys think of that? it just came to us. what? bundling and saving made easy. now, that's progressive.

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we continue this breaking news coverage of the ongoing debt ceiling battle in washington, d.c. and the negotiations have been going on all day on both end of pennsylvania avenue. we're still waiting to find out if the two parties can reach a deal in time to avoid a default. joining me now is kristen welker and luke russert. tell us what's going on with the senate. >> reporter: not much of an cup date. senators are going to the floor, speaking out in favor of a debt

limit extension, pretty much all agree needs to be done. exactly what the path is to get there they have different views. we can tell you that it seems negotiations are ongoing for a few things. mitch mcconnell has been talking to vice president joe biden throughout the day about a possible deal. what we're hearing from democrats is this idea they are holding strong on getting any definite extension through 2012. that's a position that has been really forced upon the republicans. republicans have said there will be no revenue. in terms of sprinkle of information that's what we're hearing. they are looking at a trigger. what could a trigger be after the first extension of the debt ceiling and there's this bipartisan commission we heard about in the boehner bill and reid bill. what would be the trigger to make sure the debt limit goes through 2012 and make serious spending cuts. there's talk about maybe a social security cuts that would be painful for both parties, something of that nature.

as far as the house of representatives is concern they are gone. they are at dinner. they are waiting back to to see what the senate will do on what could be the night that there finally is a break through. >> kristen, what are we hearing from the white house? >> reporter: one senior white house official tells me that the president and just about everyone here is working around the lock 24/7 was the term that was used. president obama has been in close contact with congressional leaders throughout the day. we know he spoke with senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. he met with harry reid and nancy pelosi. he's putting pressure on behind-the-scenes. you heard luke talk about the fact that democrats would like to to see a deal that extends through 2012. well the president has said he won't sign anything less. in fact he wants to to see a deal that goes through the 2012 election up to 2013. individuals tell me they want to to see major progress by sunday. here's why. there are two reasons. first of all, the markets.

as you know we saw the stocks dip to their lowest level in about a year showing their lowest weekly decline in about a year. we got some pretty negative news that economy grew by 1.3%. far lower than economists wanted to to see. so there's really an urgency to get this done before the markets open up on monday. the asian markets will open up our time on sunday. so some urgency there. president obama also putting pressure on publicly. he spoke on friday about this publicly. urging congressional leaders to compromise, urging people to contact their congressional leaders telling them they want a deal done. president obama is saying basically that the time has run out and that it is time to get something done. i asked a senior white house official what do we expect to to see from the white house in the next few days and he said basically he'll be doing a lot of work behind the scenes. president obama will stay in close contact with congressional

leaders, possibly more meetings although none have been announced at this point one time. he'll have his hand in this. >> everyone take a break. we'll have a long night. get a red bull. next we'll show you the senate floor show down between harry reid and mitch mcconnell. of course we'll continue to update you on all the breaking developments from capitol hill. we'll be back with more the place for politics. of course we'll continue to

before you buy a used car, get a carfax vehicle history report. see accidents and service reported to carfax and a price based on the car's history. free, at thousands of reputable dealers. just say, show me the carfax. good to have you back with me. we're continuing to northern the situation on capitol hill. at this hour we're waiting to to see whether or not majority leader harry reid can get the 60 votes he needs avoid a filibuster from minority leader mitch mcconnell and the republicans. we're getting word that majority leader reid will return to the floor coming up roughly at 9:50. earlier harry reid and mitch mcconnell sparred on the senate

floor earlier today. take a listen to what they had to say. >> today the speaker, republican leader held a press conference to announce they are in talks with the president and a bargain to raise the debt ceiling is close. mr. president, members of the senate that's not true. i just spent two hours with the president and vice president and leader pelosi. it's fair for me to say that the engagement there is not in any meaningful way. republican leaders still refuse to negotiate in good faith. revenue is off the calendar. no way we can talk about revenues. entitlements, all they are after are entitlements. medicare, social security. the speaker and republican leader should know merely saying they have an agreement in front of you, the television cameras doesn't make site.

republican leader said he and the president are engaged. his caucus as far as i'm concerned and our members are more engaged. there's meaningful talks going on. republican leaders holding meaningless press conferences his members are reaching out to me and other members as i've just indicated. coming forward with thoughtful ideas to try to move the process forward. i welcome their ideas. i ask all members to continue these discussions. america is watching us and they are demanding a result that's balanced. i say to my friend and so my friend the republican leader, i'll come to his office, i will go to the white house with him, i will do anything that i can do to try to move this process forward. but i say as respectfully as i can to my friend the senior senator from kentucky the process has not been moved during this day. >> mr. president. >> the minority leader.

the republican leader. >> mr. president, the fact of the matter is that the only way we're going to get an agreement before tuesday is to have an agreement with the president of the united states. the only person in america, the 370 million of us who can sign something into law. and i'm optimistic than my friend the majority leader. we both talked to the president today. talked to the vice president several times. i think we've got a chance of getting there. but i think it's not helpful is that the process we're going through here on the senate floor having a show votes over live quorums, having a reluctance on the part of the majority to have the vote on a measure they favor, which we're prepared to vote on since last night.

look, we need to be in a position where all of us in the leadership can come back here and say that we think we've reached a framework of an agreement that we can recommend to our members and be briefing our members. and the sooner we can do that, the sooner we can reassure the american people that we're going to get our result on a bipartisan basis. and so that's what i'm working on. and i'm not interested in scoring any political points. i'm interested in getting an outcome for the american people. and the only way that can be done is with the president of the united states and we're going to continue to work on that, get this rob solved, and let everybody in the country know that we're not going to default for the first time in our history. that's how i'm going to spend my time until we get that outcome that i can come up here and recommend to my colleagues. >> mr. president. >> the majority leader. >> we are here today -- we are

here today right now for this reason. it's spelled filibuster. there is tactics proceeding right now they won't allow us to have a vote, up or down vote on our amendment and this is a filibuster by any other term. ate filibuster. that's why we're here. i hope the negotiations go on. we're willing to be as fair as we can but there has to be something that the president and vice president biden and the rest of us think is a step in the right treks. i guess talk is a step in the right direction. so, mr. president, i ask unanimous consent that the matter that we have before us, which is amendment number 589 we

have an up or couldn't vote on that. as we have all the time, of course. there would be no points of order in effect and do like we do here all the time. vote on it right now. >> mr. president, i would like to object. this is direct quotes from the majority leader. in the senate it's always the case you need 60 votes. always been the case you need 60 votes. this is the majority leader of the united states senate. for him to suggest that a matter of this magnitude in a body that requires offense votes for almost everything is going to be done with 51 votes makes no sense at all. in. >> mr. president. >> the objection is heard. the majority leader. >> first of all, it's unconscionable that republicans would filibuster legislation and put a default on national obligations. frankly it's unprecedented.

since 1962 congress has raised the debt limit 74 times including 18 times under president reagan and there was never a threat of a filibuster and it was always by majority vote. >> mr. president. >> the republican leader. >> mr. president, i might say i actually cut short a conversation with the vice president to come out here for this important vote on a life kw quorum. i would like to get back to network solve this problem. it would be a good idea for the majority to die to allow the vote on the proposal they say they are in favor of. therefore, i would ask unanimous consent that the vote occur at 6:00. >> in. >> objection is heard. there we have it from earlier as senators reid and mcconnell take to it the floor. senator reid will be returning

to that floor coming up roughly at 9:50. he's expected to make an announcement about tonight's schedule. tonight's schedule tipping into tomorrow early morning 1:00 a.m. they are supposed to have a vote and we'll to see if hats is going to happen or not. coming up we'll talk about the reid and mcconnell tension, the bitter back and forth and behind-the-scenes political maneuvering. what is this announcement that harry reid will bring to us? he's expected to make one coming up at 9:50. we'll take a quick break. don't go anywhere. you're msnbc, the place for politics. ñññ

you can put lipstick on it, a nice suit, even a skirt sometimes, it's still a filibuster. >> that was senate majority

leader reid on the senate floor earlier today. senator reid is expected back on that floor coming up here shortly expected to make an announcement about tonight's schedule. earlier minority leader mitch mcconnell and senator reid were engaged in a bitter back and forth and then they have been going through this over the last few days, not just what we saw on the floor. at this hourt, senator conrad confirmed he's trying to work out a bipartisan compromise with reid and mcconnell's offices so the big question will it get done? joining me now is eugene robinson and michael eric dyson and crystal ball. i want to give you forewarning if we to see senator reid come back to the floor we'll jump back to him to hear what he says. he's supposed to make an announcement about tonight's schedule. what do you think that he could be coming out to say? if you were a betting man?

>> just what we needed another sub plot. the reid-mcconnell battle. harry reid does not like hearing that mitch mcconnell is doing an end run around his reid's leadership vice president biden. so in general, i expect we'll hear a maneuver from harry reid to make his effort to find a compromise the more important one. and if he doesn't think he has the votes, it could be delaying the vote we're anticipating at 1:00 a.m., it could be some alteration in the plan or in the bill itself. i'm not sure. but to put his plan back at center stage and not this kind of side negotiation between mcconnell and biden. >> michael, right now, though, what are the options that senator reid has? especially if he doesn't have the votes needed to get there at 1:00 a.m.. >> well, i agree with gene, of course.

if he doesn't have the votes, he's got to try to yank this thing back into his orbit. you know, the potato charles simick talked about having a banquet in a madhouse. i don't know if this is a banquet in a madhouse, but it's certainly a cafeteria in the midst of chaos. i think what harry reid is trying to do is reassert his authority, and one of the options he has is to say, look, i'm going to table this. i'm not going to have a vote at 1:00 a.m. or after 1:00 a.m., as promised. if he thinks the filibuster is going on, then he's going to be limited in terms of what his options are within the senate itself. so he wants to kind of back up. and i suspect when he backs up, he's going to have to reorder with the white house and nancy pelosi and with all interested parties, and of course, with mr. mcconnell and others, and figure out what the heck to do. because we can't look like we're a bunch of crazy people in the midst of the worst chaos in recorded history in terms of

our, you know, raising the deficit, the debt limit here. no other country does this. i mean how idiotic this is is rather stunning when we've seen these men given over to bickering. this is supposed to be the most powerful country in the world, and yet we can't have do what other countries do, which is raise a debt limit when you know you're about to exceed it. >> crystal, when we talk about mitch mcconnell and the possibility of some of the circumventing tactics he's taking around reid to get to the white house and get to biden, do you think that's underlying pressure that's getting to him because he knows that reid doesn't have the votes and he feels that he's got to get something done? >> well, i think he thinks he can get a better deal from the president and the vice president than he can with harry reid. and i suspect he sees four members of his own caucus have already defected. there are several more that are

potentially up for grabs. so there was a real possibility, and still is, i would say, of harry reid getting to the 60 votes. this was an attempt to pull things back and really undermine that process. now, you know, my name is krystal ball, but i hesitate to predict what harry reid will come out and say, but i will say the hour groweth late, and if i were him, i would be coming out and making one last very public attempt to put some pressure on those possibly wavering republicans. because as far as the democrats go, they have already compromised so much. it's hard to imagine what else could be given from the democratic side. >> right. >> so that's what i would be looking for. >> you know, i've always said you need your own show called krystal ball politics, right? >> thanks, tom. >> can i say that krystal's point here is so relevant and so

poignant, we shouldn't overlook it. the democrats have done more than compromise. they've surrendered, capitulated, given ground, ceded legitimacy. they've done everything imaginable to try to bring the other side to the table or at least to be able to bargain, and the hijacking is a kin to a form of economic treason and unpatriotism on the part of the tea party, 87 members and others, who are really trying to get their own way in a kind of political narcissism. i think we have to really point this out. >> michael, isn't it, though, that the constituents have put the tea party members there. doesn't in ultimately fall back on the american people? that's how the tea party got in. the fact that they ran on saying this is how they were going to govern. >> sure, but not everybody was a tea party member who put people into office. these 87 people did, but we have to look beyond our own interests. you have interests, i have interests, we have interests together. the tea party has interests, the left wing of the democratic party has interests, progressives, liberals, conservatives and so on. the question is, can we come

together with the notion that this is e pluribus unum, out of many, one. this is the united states of america, not the united states of the tea partyers. and when the tea party concedes that other people who disagree with them, who are fundamentally opposed to them, are american too, then when you cease to believe you have a copyright on what is patriotic or american, then you give up that kind of arrogance and you assume you have to give and flow, give and take to arrive at what's best for this nation. >> gene, have we fractured into three parties now? >> i don't know -- we're fractured, that's for sure. i don't know if you can call the tea parties a party like the m ares or the democrats. but imagine looking at this from the outside, from another country. and you see that our politics, or policy-making apparatus seems paralyzed. seems unable to do something that everyone knows must be done or else we face a financial

catastrophe. and so what are standard & poor's and moody's going to think, even if we manage to raise the debt ceiling? i suspect they're still going to have to consider whether or not to downgrade our treasury bills as investments from aaa to the next lower level. what are our investors, not just foreign investors, but domestic investors who buy t-bills going to think about our ability to function as a political system. >> well, krystal -- >> and it is true, as michael said, that the tea party is adding a new element to this. a large faction in the house of representatives that will not function as legislators. and legislators compromise. that's what they do. that's how bills get written. they're all compromises. and if you've got 87 members of the house of representatives who won't compromise under any circumstances, you know, that adds a big new problem. >> right.

all right, guys. i want to ask you to stand by with me. eugene, michael, and krystal. as i told everybody earlier, we are expecting senator reid to take to the senate floor here shortly. we don't know what announcement that he's going to make, but it has to do with tonight's vote. we'll be back with much more on msnbc right after this. [ melody ] the bar is raised for everybody in an ap class, from the teachers to the students. i had a student the other day that said... "miss stacy, this class is changing the way that i look at things." sparking that interest and showing them that math and science are exciting... it's why i teach. ♪ i know they can, even when they think they can't.

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