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>> what they're actually doing now is what all of are you familiar with when were you in school -- they're taking the roll to make sure everybody is there, make sure they have a quorum. before they do the vote on harry reid's proposal that he had on the floor to avoid default. while it's likely to go down in this cloture motion, this issue of stopping the filibuster, shutting down the debate, that may not happen. there's a procedural and some clock reasons to keep this

going, keep this alive and then when they swap out the agreement, it may be able to speed up this process. so that they can still get the whole agreement passed by both houses of congress and signed by the president before midnight, august 2nd. here's where we stand. that's where we stand right now. i am joined now by andrea mitchell, the anchor of "andrea mitchell reports," one of the grand poohba s in the washington bureau. >> this is a meltdown beyond meltdowns. they're taking attendance but it is really a delaying tactic until they've got everything in place and they're ready to go to the floor and they know exactly what the routine will be, then it will be pro forma. but behind the scenes they are lining everything up and dotting the "is" and crossing the "ts."

>> i poke to someone on the democratic side and they said the sooner we get this vote done, the better. they are worried how this could get picked apart in the next 48 hours and suddenly create problems getting this through the house. >> the worst thing for them is forecaucus members, angry dissident caucus members on both sides in both wings to be talking amongst themselves because they are so angry, so disappointed, and the leaders have to get to them before their colleagues get to them and their constituents get to them. i think actually their constituents want anything to be done and want this over with but their take on what people want is that they don't want any cuts in their key programs on the democratic side. >> nobody wants to pay any taxes. same age-old issue. but one of the things about this process that you and i have both been hearing from various lawmakers who are not in leadership is how leadership-driven all of this was, how opaque the process was. it was not transparent by any

means and there is a lot of built-up frustration, bipartisan, of the lack of input that they've had in this -- gang of six frankly was summarily dismissed. had a day or so. if fact some democrats are blaming gang the six. first republicans blamed gang of six for blowing up one part of the deal. then there are democrats who are now blaming the gang of six, saying boehner was about to cut a better deal than the democrats with the president. >> if they're get to pass something they're going to have to go back to all of the very detailed debt that the special debt reduction commission, bowles-simpson today, the biden group did and the gang of six. there are only so many ways to put back together this puzzle and they'll have to go back to those very serious numbers crunching that those groups did to perform -- create the predicate for what could be created or produced by

thanksgiving. thanksgiving is very, very much around the corner when you have this kind of a job. >> i think that's something senate leadership doesn't understand that's going on with their members. they're getting grief at home. not talking about the house here a minute but senators. the expectation is senators always know what's going on. they're senators. and in this case it's been all but about six senators. >> you can't afford to have 35 people negotiating, or even 100. because of the egos involved on the senate side. >> you mean bernie sanders and jim demint weren't going to strike a deal? >> i think if they create a enough of a sense of inclusion that there is a possibility, a likelihood, of getting this through the senate. i'm not persuaded that the house can be persuaded. >> the collateral damage to the two political parties, sometimes we overestimate the impact of an event because we are all covering every second of it in a way that none of this stuff even

during the '95 shutdown was covered in the same way. are we overestimating it? >> underestimating it. i think this is a profound change that the -- that america has taken a different direction in terms of the attitude towards spending, towards taxed, our resources. the idea that we have limited resources and the fact that our government has not been able to govern. that is profoundly disturbing on so many levels. i don't think that we can overestimate the change that this event -- that this sequence is going to wreak on our economy and on our public discourse. >> american history tells us that when we hit moments like this -- we've had moments like this where people are just questioning the ability to get things done -- one of two things happens. either one party gets to sweep in and because we are a divided government that seems unlikely at this point. the other is that we see some third entity pop up, some -- could be a third party presidential candidate, it could simply be a whole bunch of senators and members of --

people that decide to run for congress on a third party line because they're exhausted from the polarization. >> if the third party process and people like mike bloomberg who have a lot of resources have obviously looked at it very, very closely. it is really, really hard to do within the political system right now but i think you'll see a lot of people retiring, quitting, being primaried and forced out. you've got more vulnerable senators in both parties, more democrats than republicans but i think you're going to see some big changes and bottom line may be a pox on both your houses on a reaction against both parties and i think the leaders are all vulnerable. >> i want to talk about where the republican party is. some republicans are like, my god, we would be -- we won and tom brokaw has this theory that the republican party looks like

the democratic paerty post '68. the anti-war wing got fired up and nominated george mcgovern when the president wasn't really popular, people weren't crazy about nixon, yet the public decided the democratic party went too far in one direction and the danger of the republican party. you were at both of those conventions in '72 in miami. do you see it? >> i think it is possible -- and tom has good insight there -- the republican party has move too far. you have the "wall street journal," david brooks, you've got a number of voices in different areas of the republican party saying wait a second, enough already. the headline that came out of john mccain was repeated "the hobbit" repeated by the jau"wal street journal" in its headline. the republican party has to rethink is it in favor of big

spending cuts? yes. and balancing the budget down the sfrood yes. but you have to look at revenues in some fashion. you cannot be that ideological. >> they have to show the ability to govern. at the end of the day it doesn't matter if they can win a political policy argument. >> we're debating their argument. we're debating how much to cut spending. >> but the trust in them governing is the issue now that they have to overcome. >> and one other thing. i really think that we are underestimating the reaction on the left progressive, whatever you want to call it. the progressive caucus, democrats are really angry at the president. >> where do they go though? it is interesting, normally you'd say maybe there will be a primary challenge, maybe there will be a draft russ feingold, bernie sanders. you couldn't see this show up in the president personally. there's this loyalty to him that

he has that seems to bridge that divide between what are progressive elites versus the progressives in public opinion. >> lack of enthusiasm? that can also defeat an incumbent president. people staying home, people not going out and organizing, not knocking on doors, not bringing people in. plus, you could see a vote going down in the house because enough democrats didn't join in. >> andrea mitchell, stick around. we don't know when this vote's going to happen. i think we're here for the duration until this happens but we do have to go to break because somebody's got to pay these bills. we're keeping our eye on the senate where harry reid is holding a procedural vote. we'll talk with a couple of democratic congressmen. you're watching a special edition of msnbc, the place for politics. new natureluxe mousse mascara! luxurious volume with a light-as-air feel. we took out a heavy synthetic

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right now the official cloture vote to end debate on harry reid's bill, his compromise plan to try to raise the debt ceiling. that's being voted on now. it has been going on, the roll call vote is clearly party line. it is going to lose probably 52-48 because reid will vote no himself on it if he can't get cloture invoked, which he cannot, in order to keep the possibility of when the deal is struck, they basically shift control a, select all, delete, and paste in the new compromise legislation which we do expect at some point this afternoon. this is a possibility of at least speeding up the clock a little bit. anyway, how is the deal playing with some democrats? we're joined now by texas democratic congressman henry cuellar.

have you officially been informed of what the outline of this deal is going to look like by your leadership? >> no, not yet. i think we are still waiting for the leaders to work out the final details. as you know, we don't know yet. we are getting some ideas but let me tell you, in the last couple weeks in my opinion it's been a body blow to the concept of governing. i think the parties especially the republican party, has been paralyzed when it comes to the concept of governing. i think the "wall street journal" was correct. >> as you've seen the deal, i know you are reading about it, you're hearing about it on tv, outlines of this. the special committee to deal with the second round of deficit cuts. the president does get a debt ceiling raised all the way through into the spring of 2013. but it isn't the balanced approach that the president kept calling for, which was code for "some tax increases." how do you feel about how this deal has been struck? >> well, you know, apparently i think, yeah, it doesn't seem to call for what the president

wanted some time ago but it does seem to call what harry reid had been talking about. the bot to ttom line is there's going to be anything magical out of this agreement. there's going to be basic concepts that both parties have agreed on but they've been paralyzed to the point that we just can't reach an agreement and it is going to be done. unfortunately it is going to be done, as anybody knows about negotiations, the last 48 hours are usually the most important ones because that's when you can try to ram something through. certainly this is leadership driven and we certainly have to trust our leaders to a point to see what they come up with. >> it sounds like the way you are describing it and describing the paralysis that at this point you simly want to vote out any compromise that averts this debt ceiling default issue so as you understand like you could be supportive of this even if it doesn't have even 70% of what you're looking for. >> well, you know, i wouldn't say 100% ought it be supported.

i'll have to look at it like they used to say years ago. you got to read the bill and certainly i want to look at it. but one thing i'm very conscious is the market. look what's happened since boehner walked out last friday. we've lost over $450 billion in our stock. we couldn't know what's going to happen to the foreign stock tomorrow when they open up. it's one of those i don't want to see this default but again we got to look at the fine print and see what they come up with. >> do you trust the president to strike a deal that's going to be acceptable to the democratic party? >> i trust my leaders in the legislative body to do that. certainly i trust what pelosi's going to be working on. what about the president? >> like i said, i trust my leaders on this particular -- legislative leaders. >> henry cuellar, democrat from texas. thanks for coming on.

what we're watching right now be the vote, of course, in the senate that's likely to fail to reach cloture and stop the debate there which means you have to wait for this deal. white house communications director dan pfeifer just put out a statement to remind people, no deal has been struck. you're watching live coverage of this special edition of msnbc and this debt ceiling showdown right here on sunday, the place for politics. we'll be right back. ooo. sounds pricey? nah, with the hotels.com summer sale, you can find awesome deals for places nearby. interesting... wow, i'm blown away. you look great. hotels.com summer sale, save up to 30%. and get a free kindle. hotels.com. be smart. book smart. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily.

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well, the clock is ticking toward tuesday's default deadline there. while we hear there is a supposed plan in the works, there are still plenty of twists and turns left because everybody says the deal's not done. joining us to try to make sense of it, the reporter for real clear politics, and eleanor clift, contributing editor to "newsweek" and the daily beast. >> the e-mail is

newsweekdailybeast. >> you tell me. >> she'll take whatever as long as you remember who we are. >> i want to tap into your knowledge of how this town runs and what we're watching today. you just heard that interview with a democratic congressman, not considered someone way to the left in that caucus, show some frustration sounds like with the white house and how this negotiation went. >> he declined your invitation to say that he was loyal to the president basically. that he was going to be putting his trust in the legislative leaders. it's the famous phrase triangulation from the clinton era. this president has shown he is willing to distance himself from the congressional democrats and that he is going to surrender on a couple of their favorite issues although they're not part of this deal. they don't trust him because he put medicare on the table, he put social security on the table.

he could have gone off the deep end the same way the right wing republican have. i think if the democrats are not happy with it steny hoyer and nancy pelosi will get the votes. >> it is clear to watch all this that a decision was made at the white house. >> we're just talking about, speaker boehner's going to be informing his conference later this afternoon in a conference call and talking about what's in the deal. also mcconnell has to go to his members and say what's in it. we don't even know where the republicans are going to come down yet but they have to talk amongst themselves. >> when you see what's going on, you brought up the president. bill clinton those first two years had plenty of tension with

tom foley and dick gephardt and george mitchell running when he had full control for those two careers. in an odd way this is par for the course for a president. >> exactly. except i think we all feel like we're in a different era of politics because we have the first african-american president, we have divided government which we've had before, and we have a new tea party wing in the house. and so everything that's old feels new and we've been talking about this crisis of leadership. it's really a crisis of followership and can these republicans in particular the democrats, too, can they now fall in line behind their leaders. >> erin, clearly they're counting on democrats more likely to fall in line at the end of the day and now as the president likes to talk about and others, literally want o split the baby that they won't call the bluff or if you want to use the game of chicken. democrats will swerve first and that's what republicans are counting on. >> and democrats haven't been as

vocal. obviously the congressman just now wasn't ready to completely attack the president. >> it was unsaid complaining. he wouldn't rhetorirhetorically. >> these progressives about a month ago were very upset with the president and very vocal about it. sure, they're still upset with the president but somebody's tried to quiet them up a little bit but the tea party conservatives are still really going after the republican leaders. michele bachmann just came out and said she wouldn't vote for this. there's still a big fight there, showing deeper divisions. >> the president still has one trigger left and that's the bush tax cuts. >> they can solve this by doing nothing. exactly. >> my guess is we're going to hear the president bring that up

because it is not a part of this deal, both positively or negatively but they do expire at the end of '12. >> but the end of '12 happens after the november '12 election. this fight is going to be repeated in a bigger frame all throughout the year. >> both of you comment on this. one thing about this deal, it preserves talking points. we don't touch entitlements or taxes so both sides get to use their favorite weapon to -- >> but they're kicking the can down the road. they're going to be forcing these cuts later so this debate isn't over. we're going to see more in debates with the cuts. yesterday you saw the chairman of the armed services committee saying we don't like these defense cuts that reid's talking about. we're still going to be talking about this all throughout next year. >> people talk about a referendum on the economy, yeah, that always sits there.

but in a way whether it is the debate point between the republican nominee and the president, this is going to be the referendum, right? the bush tax cuts are essentially on the line in november. >> right. and the democrats would give something up there, too, because they would give up the tax cuts for the middle class as part of that deal. president really just wanted to have them expire for the upper end. so i think if they do melt away, it will be the whole shootin' match. and then watch with the education of the tea party, the 87 freshman. many of them have never served in government before and how do they come out of this debate? will they become washingtonized or they be even -- >> thank you both for being here today. coming up as we keep our eye on the senate floor, harry reid did vote no, we're going to talk with a couple of senators, barbara boxer, democrat from

california, and john barrasso, republican from wyoming. this is a special edition of msnbc sunday live. why? because we're the place for politics. we'll be right back. uh-huh. jeff! honey, i can't walk any faster. [ female announcer ] oscar mayer deli fresh turkey comes in a clear pack... [ cellphone beeps ] [ jeff ] ooh. thanks hun! [ female announcer ] ...so the freshness you see is what you taste. ♪ it doesn't get better than this ♪

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[ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. well, this is the floor of the united states senate, and as expected, harry reid's compromise plan to try to end this debt ceiling showdown did fail in that it didn't get the 60 votes that was necessary. at this point he voted no in order to bring the business and he also seemed to advise members it is possible. he said don't go to a ball game because it is possible if there's some sort of deal reached that they could vote again tonight. for the latest we go to our pennsylvania avenue tag team. on one end it's luke russert. on the other, mike viqueira. luke -- there you go. luke, where are we right now. the fact is it's 1:30. we don't have a deal and we keep

hearing people emphasize, particularly democrats, that we don't have a deal. >> yeah. i was just over around the senate, chuck. i think the appropriate word to use for democratic senators especially ones who are more progressive is there is a little bit of anxiety right now. nobody really knows for certain what are the underpinnings of this agreement. barbara mccullsky said look, democrats have already given away 80%. we don't have a lot left to give here. i'm encouraged by senator mcconnell's words he wants to end this and get to some sort of compromise but i'm anxious to see exactly what it will be. that said, if there is a deal that's proposed by the white house and backed up by the white house, democrats will ultimately fall in line but we talked a lot about this optimism and this hope of oh, my goodness, this crisis of debt will finally be over. there's a little skepticism on the democratic side and that also backs up what i'm hearing from progressives and even some

rank and file democrats in the house. to talk about the house, speaker john boehner made a surprise appearance at the capitol today banging the gavel in the pro forma session to actually keep the house open. he actually did that from the chair. they don't usually do that, they do it with one the lower members. he's got a conference call later this afternoon scheduled to his members. in an e-mail sent to his members obtained by nbc news, he said, "discussions are under way on legislation that will cut government spending more than it increases the debt limit, it advances the cause of a balanced budget amendment without job killing tax hikes. these talks are moving in the right direction but serious issues remain and no agreement will be filed until members have a chance to weigh in. so you notice there in boehner's -- a letter to his own members of the house in the gop, no job killing tax cuts. we won the argument on taxes. discussions are under way.

we are a moving. so it seems there is a lot of -- shall we say, movement to get this done but there's skepticism still on both sides. >> mike viqueira, you love to use this issue, saying it is a little bit of a game. when one feels like they have the upper hand in a deal that's being struck they like to jam the other side. some democrats have already said this hour in some e-mails saying it feels like the republicans are trying to jam the deal in, declaring victory say, it is done, finish it up because i think they feel as if they got the best deal that they could possibly have hoped for. >> at this point there's such radio silence coming from these back rooms. you and andy were talking about how opaque it is. we're sort of reduced to sort of reading tea leaves here. luke was talking about some of the vibes he was getting from democrats on the progressive side. we heard the communicationing director here at the white house tweeting out despite all the reporting, no deal has been reached. there are still important issues

to work out and a lot of bad in-flin in-flows floating out there. we've seen certainly throughout the day mitch mcconnell be much more optimistic than for example earlier when we heard from david plouffe on "meet the press." so we know negotiations continue. we were talking about the balance earlier, this alchemy between giving too much on one side and losing on the other side. where are the votes in the houshouse where, where are the votes in the senate. john boehner has a very difficult position in the house of representatives. he's going to need democrats. he's going to lose conservatives. that's a tough spot for a leader of congress to be in this any way, shape or form. >> let's get on board here. that balanced budget amendment, sure, they're going to have a vote, maybe that will make some people happy but it is not going to pull the wool over people's

eyes. >> the roll call for the cloture vote on reid was fascinating. here are three democrats that voted against closure. >> the two most conservative democrats both up for re-election in 2012. then old bernie sanders vote against cloture. one republican voted for cloture and it was scott brown. politically we get why scott brown did what he had to do. >> it is the bernie sanders part of this that i want to emphasize. it sounds like the more progressives hear about this deal if they don't like it, sanders is just the type of guy that might just gum up the works to a point to give the president and harry reid some trouble on this. >> can you imagine chuck, though, pressure? we saw jim demint from the other side of the aisle, the opposite side of the spectrum in the "washington post" yesterday. you pointed out to me, he was quoted "i might no the go to the wall in terms of process and

objections to gum this up." can you imagine the pressure? with so much riding on this, if bernie sanders is going to be the lone voice in the united states senate to raise his hand and object to unanimous consent or to whatever kind of procedural move they need to make to expedite thing thing -- and probably will need something with that vote being rejected there by harry reid -- i mean the vote going down and harry reid voting no for obvious procedural reasons. joe manchin and others are simply voting against the replan because for obvious reasons. >> mike viqueira, we'll check back in with you later. luke russert, thank you both. there are still plenty of details to be work out before the nation can breathe a sigh of relief as to what this debt ceiling is going to do and the whole economy and all of that rig ma roll. but right now i am joined now by

republican senator john barrasso on where republicans are on this. senator barrasso, thanks for being on right now. so it does seem as if republicans are pretty happy with what they are hearing. what is the holdup in the deal that you -- that you understand? >> as mitch mcconnell said earlier today on nbc, one of the morning shows, that, look, we're close, we're not there yet. we're still working out the details and that's what's going on now. i just came to the senate floor where harry reid's bill was defeated overwhelmingly and in a bipartisan way so he clearly didn't have the votes. republicans know what we want. we want to make sure there is no default that the social security checks continue to go out, that the military folks are paid and we also want to make sure that for any increase in the debt ceiling there is at least a dollar-for-dollar cut in the amount of money that we as a nation are spending.

those are the tings that ahings fundamental for us. >> do you really think this super committee that's being created out of this deal -- frankly, all of the deals, whether boehner, reid, whatever, obama, boehner, all of them had a creation of some sort of congressional commission that was based on how they did the military base closings the one time that a commission seemed to be successful in trying to get the politics out of this. do you really believe this commission, this committee, is going to deal with tax reform in a way that's going to feel fair? >> well, i agreed with what the brac commission. i wanted a bigger deal, one that would have included looking at the entitlements that are really what is driving our ongoing deficit and debt crisis. because the problem really isn't the debt ceiling. the problem is the debt. the fact that we're $14 trillion in debt. so i support any efforts that we can do to take a functional look

at this and do it in a responsible way so that the american people say yes, the people in washington get it, we cannot continue to spend money we do not have. >> how do you react to all the polling that's out there that shows a large majority -- not a narrow majority -- a large majority of the american public believes that some tax increases are going to be involved when trying to tackle this issue of the debt and deficit. >> well, i support tax reform. i support close the loopholes as part of a broader tax reform process that would actually go to get the economy moving again. we have 9.2% unemployment in this country. chuck, have you millions and millions of americans looking for work. they can't get it. a lot has to do with the policies of this administration and the last thing to do is raise taxes on people at times like this for this economy. we want to -- we need more -- >> nobody wassed a video katding raising taxes right now.

it was about how to deal with the tax code beginning in 2013. >> we need to cleaner out the brush, close loopholes and actually have tax reform that lowers tax rates and gets the economy moving again. people are working on that all of the time and i think that's something that can actually make a difference to get more people working, more revenue coming in that way because have you more people working and producing in the economy growing, then strengthening our country. >> if it's part of -- if it's part of more revenues coming in goes to deficit rereduction, you're okay with that. >> i want to see the details of this plan. i want to see the specific details of the plan we're going to be asked to vote on in the next couple days are, but fundamentally we need to mike sure that we as a nation do not default. i don't know members here that want to see a default. we want to prevent default and we want to cut spending. only a small part of this is the debt limit. the bigger, bigger part is the debt. it's -- that is a plet to our

national security and even the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff has said so. >> all right, republican senator john barrasso, member of senate republican leadership, thanks for coming on. you are not allowed to go to a ball game. stick around. you never know what you might be voting on tonight. >> you never know. >> thanks very much. you're watching msnbc's special coverage of this debt ceiling showdown. do we have an agreement? is an agreement going to be reached? what's the hold-up with an announcement on an agreement? there seems to be some. a lot of sticking points particularly for progressives. after the break we hope to hear from democratic senator barbara boxer to talk about some of those sticking points. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the jetta, awarded a top safety pick by the iihs.

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wouldn't probably like to leave the capitol if worry's not going to be voting. >> i would say to my friend that's appropriate thing to do, i would not suggest a ball game though. maybe closer than that. >> well, some levity. that implies maybe harry reid thinks he'll have something for everybody to vote on this afternoon before the sun sets. well, there are still plenty of details to be work out on what's supposedly a prospective deal on raising the debt ceiling. dealing with this, having a lot of cuts, setting up a special commission, all sorts of issues. the whole thing has been hanging over the head on the ceconomy, it's been the driving factor on why the president is intent on not just cutting a deal but making sure he got a deal that allowed so that the debt ceiling debate would not come back in six months. a lot of economic indicators are coming back in the next week. ron insana is here to talk with us about that.

last week for all intents and purposes the markets should have reactioned to some poor, frankly, gdp numbers from the first and second quarter but instead the focus is on the debt ceiling debate. in this next week as a layperson here, i know friday's jobs report today. >> tomorrow we have a very critical manufacturing report. we get these monthly reports on the state of national manufacturing and hopefully that will show continued improvement. of course on thursday as we do every week we get jobless claims numbers. this past thursday claims fell below a critical level of 400,000 for the first time in several months as it appears the auto industry is coming back online for the new auto year. then friday as you say, unemployment report comes out. it is expected the rate will hold at about 9.2%. the dismal part of that report last month was that only 18,000 jobs were created so we need more job growth than that to get some encouragement that the economy is coming out of this soft patch it's been in now for about 3 1/2 months. >> ron, i'm not going to pretend to be an expert but it does seem there's been an expectation that july should be a good jobs

number in general. with summer hire. all sorts of factors that should make it a fairly decent number. ie, over 100,000. >> you had some disruptions that we won't argue are artificial. the earthquake, tsunami and crisis in japan disrupted what they call the supply chain ap l april, may and june. auto production rebounds, workers who were furloughed come back to work so maybe there's some hope there the numbers will be better. let me just correct one point that i think republicans have been making throughout this entire debate that somehow in the near term these deficits and the debt itself is a restraint on economic growth. that's only true under very rare circumstances and when something occurs that's known as crowding out. when the government gets so large that capital becomes unavailable to the private sector, that's when deficits really slow the ceconomy. right now they're quite

stimulative, not a restraint on growth. banks have $1.5 trillion in lendable reserves. the government may be borrowing a reserves. the government may be borrowing a lot. the interest rates are quite low. not high. i think that's been a false part of this debate that needs to be addressed. and a near-term spending reduction could slow the economy. we are much more in need of long-term deficit and debt reduction as opposed to a short run cut in spending that could throw government workers into a labor market that has 4.6 applicants for every job open now. >> ron insana, analyst for helping us out on msnbc, but also contributing analyst for cnbc. good to see you. >> sure. coming up after the break, my friend and colleague, partner in crime andrea mitchell joins me as we wrap up this hour in what has been one of the more remarkable weeks in american political history. that's right after the break.

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as we wrap up this hour of coverage and this special edition of msnbc on sunday, i'm joined by msnbc's andrea mitchell, expert on all things washington. there is no deal yet. >> there's no deal. >> if there was a deal, we would so seen everybody including the president. >> this as you just pointed out before we were coming on this is threading a needle. they have to satisfy enough of the tea party conservatives and enough of the other republicans in the john boehner caucus, but they have to make sure they don't have too many defections from the democratic caucus. and steny hoyer and nancy pelosi have to sell this. this is a tough sell to them to

a large number of members of the democratic caucus. >> i had henry cuellar on, democratic congressman from texas. this is not somebody thought of as somebody in the bernie sanders wing of the party. i asked him does he trust this president to make the deal. i asked him again do you trust the president to make this deal. he said i trust my legislative leadership, nancy pelosi. real disconnect. they haven't been in the room. that's a problem for some democrats. >> the president has lost a lot of altitude with democrats in the house and the senate. the factlosi has street cred with them. if steny hoyer says you have to take this one, at the end of the day most of them will stick. but it's going to be hard. if they had it all nailed down, they would be out there. >> this is not new for presidents. george w. bush was not always on the same page as tom delay and

hastert. how much of it is par for the course dealing with a re-election and how much of this is something different? >> there are institutional divides between the house and senate and congress and the white house. but this feels worse. this feels as though there is just not a connection. they don't trust him, his own party. they don't feel he has been engaged enough. at the same time he has to feel frustration that he thinks that he's gone to the mat for them over and over again and they have not delivered. >> when the president comes out and announces something, if he indeed comes out, are we going to hear him selling democrats more than independents? this is a tightrope. he has to avoid going too far in any direction because he can lose the other wing. so, he's got to play it down the middle and talk about the larger issue. >> all right. andrea mitchell, host of "andrea mitchell reports."

apparently we're not going anywhere. that's it for this hour of live special coverage of this debt showdown that does it for me this sunday. up next, "meet the press" with david gregory. his guest, david plouffe. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. going to the bank without going to the bank... that's a step forward. with chase quickdeposit on your smartphone, you just snap a picture, hit send and done. chase quickdeposit. take a step forward and chase what matters. ♪ we just keep on keepin' on ♪ ♪ keep on