it is 9:00 on the east coast and good evening and welcome to msnbc's live coverage of the debt ceiling debate. i'm chris jansing, and it has been a long day of intense negotiations, of meetings, phone calls still ongoing, but just moments ago, 50 hours before the united states would default, president obama addressed the nation. here is what he had to say in the entirety. >> there are still some very important votes to be taken by members of congress, but i want to announce that the leaders of both parties in both cham ebber have reached an agreement to reduce the deficit and avoid default. a default that would have had a devastating effect on our economy. the first part of this agreement

will cut about $1 trillion in spending over the next ten years. cuts that both parties had agreed to early on in the process. the result would be the lowest level of annual domestic spending since dwight eisenhower was president, but at a level that still allows us to make job creating investments in things like education and research. we also made sure that these cuts wouldn't happen so abruptly that they are a drag on a fragile economy. i have said from the beginning that the ultimate solution to the deficit problem must be balance despite what some republicans have argued, i believe that we have to ask the wealthiest americans and biggest corporations to pay their fair share by giving up tax breaks and special deductions and despite what some in my own party have argued, i believe that we need to make modest adjustments to programs like medicare to ensure they are still around for future generations. that is why the second part of this agreement is so important.

it establishes a bipartisan committee of congress to report back by november with a proposal to further reduce the deficit, which will then be put before the entire congress in and up or down vote. in this stage, everything will be on the table. to hold us all accountable for making these reforms, tough cuts that both parties would find objectionable would automatically go into effect if we don't act. over the next few months, i'll continue to make a detailed case to these lawmakers about why i believe a balanced approach is necessary to finish the job. now, is this deal one i would have preferred? no. i believe that we could have made the tough choices required on entitlement reform and tax reform right now, rather than through a special congressional committee process. but this compromise does make a serious down payment on the

deficit reduction and the balanced plan will be done before the end of the year, and most importantly, it will allow us to end default and end the crisis that washington imposed on the rest of america. it ensures also that we will not face this same kind of crisis again in six months, or eight months or 12 months. it will begin to lift the cloud of debt and the cloud of uncertainty that hangs over our economy. now, this process has been messy. it has taken far too long. i've been concerned about the impact that has had on business confidence and consumer confidence and the economy as a whole over the last month. nevertheless, ultimately, the leaders of both parties have found their way toward compromise, and way tobt thi wa them for that. most of all, i want to thank the american people, because it is

your voices, your e-mails, your tweets, your phone calls that have compelled washington to act in the final days. and the american people's voice is a very powerful thing. we are not done yet. i want to urge members of both parties to do the right thing and support this deal with your votes over the next few days. it will allow us to avoid default, and it will allow us to pay the bills, and it will allow us to start reducing the deficit in a responsible way and allow us to turn to the very important business of doing everything that we can to create jobs, boost wages and grow this economy faster than it is currently growing. that is what the american people sent us here to do, and that is what we should be devoting all of our time to accomplishing in the months ahead. thank you very much, everybody. all right. that was the president, and moments before he spoke, senate majority leader harry reid and senate minority leader mitch mcconnell an understand noed they will be meeting with their respective caucuses tomorrow

morning followed by a vote on this compromise deal. >> sometimes it seems that our two sides disagree on almost everything, but in the end, reasonable people were able to agree on this, the united states could not take a chance to defaulting on the debt and facing worldwide collapse and debt increasing. >> and now i can say with a high degree of confidence that there is a framework to reduce cuts in washington spending, and we can assure the american people tonight that the united states of america will not for the first time in our history default on its obligations. and also, while all of this was going on, speaker john boehner was holding a conference call with all 240 members of his caucus telling them that there is nothing in this framework that violates our principles, and it is all spending cuts. the white house bid to raise taxes has been shutdown. and as i vowed back in may when everybody thought i was crazy

for saying it every dollar of debt increase will be matched with a dollar of spending cuts, and in doing this, we have stopped, again, and these are john boehner's words in a powerpoint presentation, we have stopped a job-killing national default that none of us wanted. well, members of the congressional progressive caucus are scheduled for an emergency meeting tomorrow at 2:00 in the afternoon, and the members of the black caucus have expressed reluctance about this deal, and luke russert has the unenviable job of counting the votes. the president said to do the right thing and certainly pressure will be applied by leadership on both sides, and how tight could this be? >> oh, it is going to be tight, chris, from everything that we have heard. what i found so interesting about what speaker boehner said on that conference call was that it really was a pep talk. in a sense, it reminded me of

almost a football coach saying, you know what, you guys won today, and you won today because you stuck together, and i believe the words were, it was a long battle, but you fought valiantly and went toe to toe with president obama and the senate and changed the way that washington worked, but the key for boehner is that does that message resonate with the conference? that is unknown right now, because last week we saw firsthand that speaker boehner is not able to get 216 republican votes for his original plan which was further to the right of this one, and he is going to need to get between 120 and 130 and it is not known if he can do that. now, on the democratic side, you mentioned groups upset with this deal and specifically the progressive caucus and black caucus, and the general consensus from what i have heard with the democratic aides is that nancy pelosi will do her absolute best in trying to corral the groups together and in rank and file democrats and saying, hey, look, we have to get to 95 or 100 votes, because the president needs us, and he

needs us for the re-election and they got the debt limit issue off of the table until 2013 and we need the president's back on this, and that is what i am told her message is. and don't forget that nancy pelosi is the most prolific fund raiser in the democratic caucus and she has credit in that regard. so the question is, chris, can john boehner get to that 120, 130 number? the words in the conference call are making the point of look, we don't want a job-killing and debt default. he is trying to bring in the idea that they have won, and this going to make the changes that they came to washington to pursue. it's going to be a real tough sell job, and no one knows how is it going to turn out. now, as far as timing, we know that both the senate democrats and republicans will meet tomorrow, and it is presumably out of the senate, and chuck todd said that the more republican senators that supports this makes it easier on

john boehner to sell it to the conference, because if it comes out with 75 or 80 senators behind it and over 40 republicans or 35 republicans or whatn whatnot, it will make it easier for boehner the say, look, the entire team over there is going forward with this and get on board, you know, don't let us own this type of default which would be very, very politically damaging, and quite frankly, chris, you know, with the president thanking the american people for tweeting and calling and e-mailing, the real culture of dysfunction has become a stain not only on capitol hill, but the white house. when you talk to the folks who have been around here for a while, there is a desire to try to rid themselves of this view that congress is incapable of getting anything done. i mean, listen to the words of mcconnell and reid and great night for america showing that we can come together and accomplish great things. nobody is happy with this deal, and they say that if the nobody is happy, then perhaps they did the right thing.

the trick is going to be from what i heard from the aides, they want to get it done quickly the longer the deal hangs out there, the more it will be attacked by the blogosphere, and the liberal attackers. they want them to think, hey, i'm preventing the united states economy from defaulting on the first time in history, and le's get on board and do this. >> and jonathan alter, be serious about, this assuming that, you know, again, they have pretty much had the deal done and they had a sense that they would have the votes. it is also try that congress likes to have a deadline hanging over its head and they have pushed it up to the limit at this point. >> well, they basically don't get anything done without a deadline, and of course, doing things at the 11th hour just like studying for an exam, you know, just a few hours before the exam starts is not really usually a good idea. it does not make for a really rational policy-making, but a key word here, chris, is framework. which we are hearing today or the the first time. it reminds me of a little bit of

the middle east negotiations. a framework denotes a set of principles, targets, basic broad outlines so that a lot of people at home maye wondering how will these $1 trillion in cuts over ten years affect the program i'm interested in? and the answer to the question is we don't know yet. because this does not put congressional appropriators out of business. they will make the determinations of which programs get cut by how much, and over tim time. it is the larger framework they are establishing of $1 trillion. >> and andrea mitchell, how much do we know before this goes to the vote and how much opportunity will the american people have to weigh in on this? >> well, as you know, it is a framework, and the specific cuts are not there. but we will know a lot. we already know a lot, and as

the details are coming out the caucuses are going to be briefed. but time is of the essence. if you believe that the debt deadline is serious and we have a deadline with the markets and a deadline with the legislative calendar, they have to get it done and get it done quickly. i personally think they will have a lot of trouble with the individual caucuses, and that this is all going to be about the reaction on the house side tomorrow as john boehner has already tried to sell this as a good deal where they are holding president obama accountable. nancy pelosi has to take a very different tact with her caucus and persuade the liberals they have not been sold down the river. >> and we were just talking about this with luke russert, if they get 75 or 0 votes in the ent is a, how much pressure on the members of the house and does it make it much more likely that it will be passing there? >> well, not any longer with those members of the house who came here to change things, who are revolutionaries at heart,

and who in fact believe they are angry at the senate, and believe that the senate has failed to deliver a budget, and they are very resentful in fact of the senate privileges and perks and always a lot of rivalry and resentmentt of the senate from the house side and a large vote from the senate won't have that much weight. >> and joining me is chuck todd, white house correspondent, and political director for nbc news and host of "daily rundown" here on msnbc, and so, chuck, how does this look like it is going to play out? best case scenario or worst case scenario? >> well, look, i think that the house vote is going to be heavy lift and don't pretend it is anything but that. you are going to have the -- you will still have a monday filled with a lot of armchair quarterbacking on the two bases of the party and we know the progressive wing and the democrats hate this deal, and feel like the president capitulated and gave up on haryi reid and chuck schumer, and gave

up on harry reid and could have been a ugly bipartisan fight and i don't know if the house could have handled that, but that kind of armchair quarterbacking, and we have already seen it among the tea party conservatives and some of the other blogosphere conservatives and guys like erick erickson is very unhappy with this deal and that is why they have to move it fast. any delay could make the house vote very precarious at the end. that said, steny hoyer, and john boehner at the end of this one, and basically it could cost to leaders their job, but on this one, they will have some backup votes. they will know at the end of the day when one is -- when you are the democrats promising 80 to 100, that is a lot of back pocket votes that john boehner can have and i think it will get through, and it is going to be a close vote, but they will have 10 to 15 and each party of sort of like in case of emergency votes.

you know, the break-glass-here if you need this vote, and they will is have a few of those votes to get through, but i will tell you what the whip operations have told us that they need a big vote out of the senate. i agree with andrea, it is not as influential as it used to be, but having the big vote out of the senate certainly helps. it would hurt if it came out of a 65-35, and that would make the job harder. >> and do they have a sense at this point if it might be a big vote in the senate? >> i would be surprised if it is anywhere under 70 at this point, because i believe they can get to 75, but anything above that is a reach. i expect it to be, you know, it is interesting here that we could see more democrats in the senate support this deal, but more republicans over at the house. we will see if that is how it go goes, and that would be interesting dynamic and one reason to have that is that you have 23 democratic seats up for re-election and folks like claire mccaskill and jon tester who are trying to woo the

independents and trying to woo the deficit hawks and so this is certainly, if you are going to sell this vote, the best way you can sell it as a democrat is that i'm a deficit hawk, and that is why i'm supporting this deal. >> and apparently, andrea, the best way to sell it as a republican on the house side is to put together a powerpoint presentation with talking points to give your members a chance to go home who may be on the fence and say, look, look at a all of the things that we got. >> sure. and they did get a lot. let's face it. they got some very deep cuts up front, and for a promise of further cuts down the road and no guarantee at all that those revenue measures will be considered even though the congressional super committee will have the option of considering revenue measures and those would not kick in until 2013 and they got a lot, and the president got a longer-term deal than originally offered. >> and luke, logistically, we are hearing the remarks from john boehner who says by the way that this is not the deal he wanted, but maybe mot the

greatest deal in the world, but it is still pretty good, and he is recommending it and he wants to bring it to a vote as soon as possible and what does that mean? what is as soon as possible? >> well, it all depends on exactly what the senate would take this vote, and whether or not they would use expedited procedure. remember the senate, if anyone objects, they can essentially hold up a bill, and you need unanimous consent to move it forward, but it is presumed from the folks who ordinarily disrupt things like this like jim demint of north carolina or bernie sanders from vermont, and they don't believe them to do that, especially with the nation possibly defaulting on tuesday night at 11:59. so if it were to come out of the senate tomorrow, i believe it is possible to get to the house tomorrow night or early tuesday morning, and they want to do it as early as possible so that in the event that maybe some how this doesn't go through the house, they can tinker with it, and obviously that would have a dire effect on the financial markets, but time is of the essence here, and not only for

the avoid the default, but also to really, i think not allow this compromise to be destroyed by the folks from the liberal blogosphere and from the conservative talk radio and the chattering class of both extremes are going to go to town on this tonight, and tomorrow, and especially on the right side of newly elected members, those guys have a lot of sway. and the last thing that they, john boehner, wants is for this powerpoint to be read and they feel good about it and then tonight getting the e-mails saying you cannot do that and you are selling out the cause and we will primary you from the right because you are giving into washington. that is the fear. the earlier the vote on the floor and the less of that that the members have the deal with and essentially especially to say that they need to jump together, and that is really where they hope they go. but, look, this is not a slam dunk. this is obviously a huge moment

that the four leaders here agree with the president, but there is a very difficult treacherous path, and chuck mentioned the votes in the back pocket to break in case of emergency, and i don't know how you get that on the republican side right now, because folks are in the trenches and a lot of the folks are going to want to go for the, it is going to be really difficult message. >> any scenario, chuck, you can see that available on the republican side? >> look, i do. i think that ultimately, you go to the institutionalists and you write off the freshman in some of the tea party conservatives, but at the end of the day, you rely on the institutionalists, and part of the, in fact, delay at the end in a weird way it is fitting because of the circle story coming full circle, it was the house republicans coming in at the very beginning that said you want the debt ceiling increase, go cut for cut and figure out a way to go dollar for dollar on the debt ceiling

cut, and they started the debate and of course, it was, you had to wait until they signed off on it, essentially at the end, before we had an agreement, so, i think that the struggle here was some of the institutionalists that we have talked about are not happy with the pentagon cuts, and it is about the last remnants of pork that there is, and i don't mean pork in a negative context, but i'm simply saying on defense spend, it is a very good thing for the economy in some of the congressional districts in some states. look at northern virginia and look at all of virginia and state of texas and places where there is a t lot lot of republi so losing that was a concern of the old-fashioned pork front. >> luke, chuck, andrea, thanks to all of you and after the break, emanuel cleburne, and chairman of the national black caucus and we will get some

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president obama just a short time ago saying that there is a deal on the table to avoid the first-ever default in the history of this country to raise the debt ceiling. we also heard from both mitch mcconnell, harry reid, and john boehner has given a powerpoint presentation to the members of his caucus. so tomorrow, we have a little bit of a schedule, and i'm just hand handed the senate schedule. they will come in tomorrow morning and the republicans are going to meet at 10:00. the democrats are going to meet at 11:00, but the idea on both sides is that there will be a vote. now, the question is what is going to happen over on the house side. joining me is democratic congressman from missouri emanuel cleburne who is the chairman of the congressional

black caucus. good evening. >> good evening. >> the president painted this in a picture that is this is a very important step, and something that he supports, and you have been quoted coming out of your kochk caucus as calling this a sugar-coated satan sandwich and that is indeed your quote and how you feel about that deal? >> well, it is accurate quote. i am saying that if you lift the bond what you will see is antithetical to everything that the great religions of the world teach, take care of the poor and the age and when you look at the phone calls that i have gotten, there are 7 to 1 in favor of a balanced deal, and also preserving medicare and medicaid and social security. i'm concerned about this, because we don't know the details, and until we see the details, we are going to be extremely noncommitted, but on the surface, it looks like a satan sandwich. >> tell me on the surface, what it is about this package what you are hearing about this deal

that makes it incredibly inpalatable for you. >> well, when you talk about $1 trillion in spending cuts without identifying what the spending cuts are, that should cause concerns to the american public, an also, we are going to the create a super congress to then put together a program and a plan and we need to understand completely what the triggers are if this super congress can't put a plan together. i -- i'm not really excited edd about this, but our leadership, i think understands that with the in this congress there are some of us who can be counted on, and some of us who can be counted out. historically, we have been able to be counted on. we are not interested in walking the nation across into the abyss, but at the same time, we have to protect our constituents. >> well, leaves you with an interesting dilemma, doesn't it, because harry reid, the

president, seems like nancy pelosi are going to say, look, this is not the deal that we wanted, with i is frankly the same thing that john boehner said, but it is the best deal we could get, an si a ded this is e have to do and we have to avoid the default, what are the alternatives? >> well, possibly there are no alternatives at this point. we lost this early on, because i came back to washington at the beginning of the year thinking that we were going to create jobs, and we allow the national discourse to change from jobs to the debt. and so right now, there's very little we can do, but the one thing that i think that is important, if the, if i were a republican, i would be dancing in the streets because i don't know of one thing they didn't get. i can't tell you one thing that

the democrats got out of the deal except that we are going to probably prevent the nation from crashing economically. >> well, the president said in his remarks that one of the key things that was a bottom line for him is that this is not going to be revisited as he put it six months or eight months or 12 months tonight and it will lift the debt and cloud of uncertainty over the economy and we won't have to revisit it in the short term. >> i agree with the president that we have to get this off of the table, but keep in mind that i'm not as comfortable as maybe the president is that when we come to this point again, we are not going to revisit exactly the same kind of dilemma, and you know, i'm convinced tomorrow when all of the caucuses meet, the black caucus, and the hispanic caucus and the progressive caucus and the asian-pacific caucus -- we are all going to struggle i can tell

you now that it is going to be a tumultuous meeting for us, because we feel that we didn't get anything out of the deal, and, you know, at the very minim minimum, we thought that we could reduce all of the cuts at a time when most of the economists tell us that with the federal government placing money into the economy, and if we begin to snatch it out, we could accelerate a double-dip, if you will. and unemployment could jump from 9.2 to whatever it is. and people need to understand when we talk about the federal cuts and every time we do a federal cut, it means we will take some jobs away, and that is the one thing that we can't afford the do right now. >> well, one of the statements that the president made tonight is that one of the things that the deal does that he felt it does is to make sure that the cuts don't happen so abruptly that they drag on a fragile economy. are you not confident of that? >> well, i heard the president say that, and i'm hoping that

when we read the language that we will see that there is nothing done abruptly, because that would lose some votes. so, we have to see the details, and again, we want to go to the discretionary spendings, and we want to see, you know, how we are going to deal with defense. look, we are spending $2 billion a week fighting wars we should have been out of a long time ago. you want to save money, stop the wars. we cannot afford the continue to do these wars now. and that is a good way to save $2 billion a week right now. there are a lot of things that we can do before we start to hacking into the three guarantees that we gave people in this country. >> well, let me ask you finally one last thing that the president had to say and get your reaction to it, to your point, sir. this is the president earlier tonight, i believe we have to

make modest adjustments to programs like medicare to make sure that they are around for future generations. >> i support that if it, if what the president says does not mean we are taking to make benefit cuts. social security recipients have not gotten a cost of living increase in the last koumle of years, so when we talk about medicare, we have to talk about something because medicare is out of control financially and economically. but it is the details that i think that are the details that we have to get into, and maybe when we get into the details we can start, but mile, but if i w republican, this is a night to party. >> and this is emanuel cleaver, chairman of the black caucus, and what time are you meeting tomorrow? >> well, we will have an emergency meeting to give those who live on the east coast a chance to get here however many of us stayed here.

>> another late night there on capitol hill. congressman,thank you for being with us. >> thank you very much. and we will also get a reaction from a republican member of the house. keep it right here.

in this stage, everything will be on the table to hold us all accountable for making these reforms, tough cuts that both parties would find objectionable would automatically go into effect if we don't act. over the next few months, i will continue to make a detailed case to these lawmakers about why i believe that a balanced approach is necessary to finish the job. >> and that was the president talking about this super congress that are going to have unenviable job of figuring out the details of all of this, and they are going to have a deadline of november. that of course, assumes that what we heard from the president and the leaders of both parties in the senate are right, and that is that the framework of this deal is something that's going to be acceptable to both parties and both houses, and those votes could happen tomorrow. in fact, we would expect that they would. joining me now on the phone,

congressman michael grimm republican from new york who was elected with support of the tea party. congressman, good evening. >> good evening, how are you? >> well. i presume that the question to you is what happened on the conference call that you just got off of with john boehner? >> well, he outlined what is in the plan and the agreement and very similar to what we pased in the house with boehner plan with different tweaks and overall, it is something that i voted for before, and i will obviously be supporting this time. >> did you get a sense on that call that there was any nervousness? do you think that there is going to be difficulty within the republican party getting the votes that's needed to pass this in the house? >> no, i don't. again, i think that it's similar enough to what we just passed therefore, you know, by that nature, we shouldn't have is any problem passing this, and i also think that this time, you will have bipartisan support which is

what we want here. again, we can be real partisan and look to demonize one another and we have done enough of that, and it is quite frankly, one of the things that i have been disgusted by since vi have been in office and we have to pass this. this debt problem is not republican or democrat, it is an american issue. as republicans we feel that the president has been on a spending spree, and we won't be shy about that. he has. but the overall debt is over $14.3 trillion and that is a real american issue which we have to deal with in a bipartisan way, and hopefully the agreement today which we will vote on hopefully tomorrow will be the beginning of that bipartisan support and it should be a partnership that we are working toward which is based in good judgment, a and you know, commonsense approaches and not demonizing or demagoguery, but approaches that is acceptable for both parties.

>> congressman, this is jonathan alter, and we have been talking about the vote in the hour, and the subtexts of the comments suggested that a substantial majority of the republicans will vote for this, and it might be kindf a lopsided vote in well,. you know, in my short seven months' tenure here, i have seen things that i didn't think i would ever see, so anything is possible, but the most of the republicans will rally behind this, and the biggest problem that my conference had was that a lot of the conservatives were expecting bigger and bolder changes. but here is a little fact of life that we all have to deal with, washington is so systematically broken that it is going to take time to make big changes, but this is definitely a historic change. the idea that we are going to cut more than we are going to increase the debt ceiling is a first time. that is a historic moment. and we are tying similar handcuffs for the next time we have to raise the debt ceiling.

so, that means that the debate has changed. and we are taking steps for the first time in our history to curtail the spending and that is history. and we have a serious balanced budget amendment on the table. it is talked about, and over the next three or four months, and you will see a lot of the american people rally behind a balanced budget amendment which is a biggest thing that i would urge my colleagues to don both sides of the aisle. listen to the american people. they are a lot smarter than we give them credit for and they know what is best. they balance the books for their own households and own small businesses every single day. >> congressman, i don't know if you had a chance to hear who we were talking to before missouri democratic mael cleaver, and he said if i were a republican i would be dancing in the streets. do you agree? >> absolutely not. i would say if today we could

say that the $14.3 trillion debt is gone, then i would be dancing in the streets. we still have a debt crisis an just because we can raise the debt ceiling and avert a catastrophe for august 2nd, we have a serious problem on our hands and deal with entitlements that are raising the debt astronomically. >> and are you concerned about the super committee at all? >> well, you know, i think that we are concerned about everything, but i'm going to be optimistic that this committee knowing that if they don't do their job, then there is sequestration, which is going to implement cuts that both sides are going to want to avoid with their lives in my opinion. so, this committee which will be completely bipartisan, does two things. number one, it forces them because of sequestration to come up with the cuts needed, but more importantly, because it is bipartisan, it should put an end to the demagoguery and the deem

niizati niization, and get past the rs and the ds and put america first and this board will be able to do this, this committee. >> michael grimm, it is good to talk to you, congressman. have a good night. >> thank you. and coming up next, we will have a panel to talk about this historic compromise between president obama and the republicans. we will be right back. crunchy oats and... hey! don't forget me!! honey nut cheerios. make it your favorite too!

i want to urge members of both parties to do the right thing and support this deal with your votes over the next few days. it will allow us to avoid

default, and allow us to pay our bills. it will allow us to start reducing our deficit in a responsible way, and it will allow us to turn to the very important business of doing everything that we can to create jobs, boost wages and grow this economy faster than it is currently growing. that is what the american people sent us here to do, and that is what we should be devoting all of our time to accomplishing in the months ahead. well, that was the president a little more than an hour ago, and of course, before they can get on with the business of jobs, there is a little business of having to vote on this framework of a deal that was agreed to by the leadership on both sides in both houses. now, we were just told that house speaker john boehner has left the capitol building, and he had a long powerpoint presentation an on the phone with all 240 members, and that is clearly where the real fight and real question mark is. let's bring in our msnbc political analyst richard wolffe author of "renegade, making off

a president" and cher toeplet and jonathan alter. is this going to be done, richard? >> yes, it is going to be done, and as we heard from the congressman from new york, we have all been saying that there is lots to hear that conservatives don't like, but i don't see what the conservatives don't like here, because the balanced budget language is in there if it has been watered down a little bit. and taxes on the table, and according to speaker boehner's presentation tonight, it is effectively impossible to increase taxes in the very second phase that the president says that everything is on the table in. so they cannot both be correct here. either taxes are on the table or off of the table in that second phase. if republicans believe that this is as good as they say it is, then they should have no trouble getting the votes in the house. >> in fact, it is only two member, but cher, we did talk to two members, and you mentioned michael grimm, but two people elected with tea party support

and one of them a member of the tea party caucus, and both of them indicating that they would be willing to vote for it and maybe not as tough as we think it might be. >> well, i think that is quite possible that congressman grimm, from new york, his comments are promising certainly that if a lot of the colleagues and a lot of the freshmen colleagues agree with him, then it is going to have a easier time passing. here is what i will look for tomorrow morning what congressman jason chaffetz has to say, and other moderate democrats to see what they have to say. i think there could be an interesting schism in the house democrats who support this and others who are in the cbc and the black caucus, and look to see if like the congressman from indiana and others are on board. >> well, it could be an anti-climatic vote than we have

been saying all evening. it is hazardous to make these predictions. i am looking at the larger picture, and historians will look on this night as the beginning of the age of austerity in america. we are dealing with a different landscape than we have been used to for so many decades where the question is what do you spend more on, and now the questions moving forward are what are you spending less on? those are excruciating choices, and we are at the beginning of the choices. there is a sense tonight that this crisis is ending. no, something's beginning, and we are going to be arguing about all of this, taxes, and entitlements as far as the eye can see. >> and richard wolffe, you mentioned this earlier that your homeland, the uk, has been through this before and it is a case of be careful what you wish for because so many people wanted this deal done and people saying it is about time that the government is doing what i have to do at home which is to

balance the checkbook, but the consequences are not easy. >> no, but it is actually, the terms of the debate are phase in these cuts to spending, and i believe in fiscal year '13 and again, people are assuming that thec picking up by 2013 so that it won't have the impact that we are seeing in the uk, where you cut spending where there is low growth, and unemployment will rise. there is a connection here. there is another red line here that we have to crossed which is that democrats did not want entitlements on the table unless taxes were on the table, too, and they would confront the sacred cows unless the republicans did so, and that has been broken today. and republicans have gotten both parties to agree to having entitlements changed without giving up the sacred cows is a game-changer in itself. >> and all of you, thanks to you. we will get a take on the night's events from are the democratic and the republican

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monumental day in washington with the framework for an agreement to avoid default. nbc's kristen welker is at the white house where there was a rare late night briefing that just wrapped up. kristen, what did you hear? >> well, chris, white house officials at that briefing gave us a sense of how this deal came together. first point i want to make is that according to the white house officials they believe that this week really helped them to make the argument that the debt ceiling should only be increased once, essentially through 2013. they believe that the fact that the dow dropped so severely this week really helped them to make their argument that the markets just won't respond well if we have to go through this in another six months, and they also say that the phone calls that came pouring into capitol

hill and remember that president obama asked the public to call their leaders. they believe those phone calls actually had an impact. one more point they have been having phone calls throughout the weekend with congressional leaders and president obama and vice president biden have been. and the last point i want to make here, chris, is that according to the white house officials, they believe that the -- sorry, i just lost my thought here, but the last highlight that came out of the meeting is that each congressional leader gets to a appoint one member of that super committee, and that is how the super committee is going to be identified, chris. >> that is an interesting development, kristen welker. and let's bring back krystal ball and joe watkins, republican

strategist, and we are getting indications that the republican party may be more willing than we thought to go for the deal. what do you see happening tomorrow? >> well, it is a positive development, because it means that john boehner is likely to get the 120 votes or more if some of the members of the tea party say this is an agreement they can sign on to, that is a very, very good indication. now, i think that the president's remarks have turned the heat up on the democrats, and specifically, on those democrats like the congressional black caucus who have strong constituencies who support the president are going to be hard-pressed even if emanuel cleaver has misgivings to go back to the constituencies to say that they didn't give the president he needed in the hours before default. >> well, you call them misgivings, krystal ball, but he called them a sugar-coated satan sandwich, but whdo you see movement in the black caucus and

the progressive black caucus? >> well, the democrats have moved so far on the right on this, there is a sense that all they can do is to help the country avoid default and the president has called on them, and i suspect you will see movement there. but the sad thing tonight is that we have to realize that this is the beginning of hostage politic, and the republicans led by the tea party took the country hostage to push through an ideological agenda they could not get through any other way, and it worked. >> i hope that is not the case. >> so the tea party members would be crazy not to vote for that, because they won. >> and i hope it is a victory for the country, because we all win if there is not a default and we will all lose if we default. >> well, we need to think about unemployment, and the default debt ceiling, and when we get back to work is when we all win. >> and thank you. jonathan alter who has been my partner throughout the night, i want to thank you and to all of you who have been watching. again, there is a framework for the deal, and we are expecting a vote tomorrow.

the president made his comments tonight, and john boehner has left the capitol, but it is an early start tomorrow. and we will see how all of this plays out. i'm chris jansing and thank you very much for watching msnbc.

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