jong-il yoga routine. >> that i would watch. put your head down, put ittoes, pounds and get the arms out front. the hugo chavez work out available on dvd. "morning joe" starts right now. >> there are still some very important votes to be taken. i want to announce the leaders of both parties in both chambers reached an agreement that will reduce a deficit and avoid a default. a default that would have had a devastating effect on the economy. i have been concerned about the impact it's had on business confidence, consumer confidence and the economy as a whole over the last month. ultimately, the leaders of both parties have found their way

toward compromise. i want to thank them for that. >> something is just not right. >> they are finally pulling together. >> things aren't working again. >> nothing is going to work. >> good morning, everyone. it's monday, august 1st. can you believe it's august? >> no, i can't. >> where is summer? >> it's gone. >> gone. >> i woke up this morning and the summer is gone. >> gone. >> with us on set -- >> like willie said, in a couple weeks, it's going to be snowing. >> god, i hope you enjoyed yourself. i didn't. >> john heilemann is here. >> go ahead. >> msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee is

with us. >> have you had a good summer, john? >> what summer? >> exactly. >> one day is a cold spring, the next day, we are on the verge of a snowstorm. >> major news to report this morning. >> with a heat wave, does it really have to go from 42 to 117? are we on mars where we have no atmosphere? >> yeah. >> global warming. >> the leaves started to change out there. you can see that. >> i like it. >> the first changing of the leaves, august 1st. >> with just one day to go before the budget deadline -- i do like the fact we are not doing the countdown deadline. >> can we have an armageddon

clock for a minute. we can add shocks. >> there's one day left. >> over the weekend, you know, the kids and i -- like the kids -- you know, willie, the kids are hip to my jive, right, so i'm on the twitter a lot. i'm on the twitter a lot talking about the cold play and -- >> oh, yeah. >> the stroke. are they still hot? anyway, it's going crazy this weekend. casey and the sunshine band. they are all going crazy, like it's the end of the world. i'm like relax. they are going to do the deal. they went crazy. >> you said it's the end of the world as we know it and i feel fine. >> i told them drink sweet tea and relax, call me in the morning. it will be fine. these are the sort of things, mika brzezinski, that always

work themselves out. they are going to work themselves out this time. >> instead of trying to engage, i said i would go running. get a work out in. you know, come back, we have a deal. >> when you asked people to come running with you, did they come? >> i got a lot of responses. there's a lot of good athletes on twitter who want to talk about running. >> boy, that's what i want to do on twitter, on the weekend. >> she said running, not running to the bar. >> they are going to follow you on scooters. >> the house and senate are expected to vote on a package to raise the debt ceiling. congressional leaders reached a last-minute agreement admitting the deal has some flaws. >> is this the deal i would have preferred? no. i believe we could have made the tough choices required on

entitlement reform and tax reform now rather than through a special congressional committee process. we will avoid default and end the crisis washington imposed on the rest of america. i ensured we will not face the same kind of crisis in six months or eight months or 12 months. it will begin to lift the cloud of debt and the cloud of uncertainty that hangs over our economy. >> john heilemann, the left is angry with the president for the deal. mika. >> here are the basics. a two-stage process to raise the debt ceiling by $2.1 trillion. it includes $1 trillion in spending cuts over ten years. next, this is one of the arguments of the weekend. it forms a bipartisan committee for cuts of at least $1.5 trillion. if congress fails to act on the committee's recommendations, the

deal forces automatic spending cuts. it extends the debt limit through 2012, a priority for president obama. >> john, a lot of people on twitter on the left side of the aisle, very upset. people saying once again, the president caved. >> i think the president surrendered. >> krugman said he surrendered yesterday morning. he had very tough words for the president. no leadership. are those fair attacks on the president? >> i think the left has grounds to be unhappy with the president. >> why is that? >> look, the president spent the last three or four months arguing for a balanced approach. it included revenues. he had nothing that he wanted

except an extension at the debt ceiling. for political and economic reasons, that's the win. it's the one thing he wanted that he got. on the other front, he did not get anything. every stage of the negotiation, republicans got more in policy terms than they started out with in the beginning. >> charles said the tea party won, they should take it and go. do you agree? >> i think it's basically right. i think it's basically right, yes. the debate was largely on con republican grounds. they got more every time they pushed it further. it's true, if you look at the deal they have cut that some republicans, conservative republicans are going to be upset to look up later and realize the commission that's

been set up and the way the trigger works is going to make tax increases much more likely, which i think is for the right thing for long-term debt reduction. the way it's structured, we are going to get either a tax increase within the commission. there's a question of how we get there. >> michael, whether or not the viewing audience agrees with the tea party, you have to be impressed by a small group of people who went up against a democratic president, democratic senate who got what they wanted. >> they went against the democratic president and senate but leadership. the key take away that a lot of people have is that you have a group of people that formed themselves not just in 2009, but this group, this energy goes back to the republican spending and the bush administration.

you are talking 2005, 2006. it's been bubbling. they organized themselves around a concept, they went out and fought their point. they told leadership, we are going to do this on different terms, whether you like it or not. they stuck to their guns. the process changed. what happens going forward is another thing getting to your point about the commission, committee in the fall and how that is played out and what the tea party will do. >> before we get there -- yeah? >> you have to be impressed, don't you? >> with? >> you and your kids, when you are on summer vacation in 2008, you told me you were going to the city pool and they would be sliding down and saying hope, change, hope, change, life guards blowing the whistle. >> no, that's not the scenario.

these tea partiers, that's real change. you have to be proud of these kids fighting their hearts out and going up against democrats and presidents and majority leaders, but against their own republican establishment. you may one day be a tea partier yourself, mika. what do you say? >> no. when my children were doing that, they were sitting at a pool surrounded by republicans and jumping off the board going hope, change. >> this summer, a lot of those old republicans are going to say how is the hope and change working for you. >> i'm in trouble. >> i'm impressed. >> by the tea party? >> we are going to be attacked. we are going to have every reporter using terrorist analogies against them. they are the sort of things the

same journalists are doing now. calling them hostage takers and terrorists. >> they did. >> yes. the mainstream media did attack republicans for saying such things about barack obama and democrats for two years. >> the mainstream media for the tea partiers -- yeah. >> you can call them suicide bombers because they are republicans. that's the only thing. >> it's a huge difference. what are you talking about? it's ridiculous. it's a crazy analogy. there was nothing about our administration when the hostage was taken. it led to the collapse of american economy. the actual catastrophe they were holding the country to was totally different. >> what were they holding the country to and the leadership

to? they said you spent us to this point. you have a conversation where they talk about -- >> wonderful. >> the thing was, if you don't do what we want -- >> you have the executive office, the executive branch and the senate. the democrats don't control the senate. by the way, the democrats were so serious about the economy, mr. reid could have solved this in december, 2010 getting the debt limit up. if you want to take it back to the beginning. that's where it begins. >> michael, if you are claiming that harry reid and barack obama were naive by not including a debt limit, you are right. they were naive. there's no way republicans behaved this insanely. >> you have never seen real hope and change. you saw it with this group of

people that came up and went to congress and did what they said they were going to do. >> that brings up another good point. you have called them insane. >> i called him insane. >> no, you said barack obama said he didn't know this group of people would act so insane. we hear political bombers, terrorists from mika and you say insane. i will say, if you are just a lawyer and looking at negotiating tactics and looking at this battlefield, willie, you have to look at this and say -- you have to say, okay, they came in, they had a goal, they told everybody from the beginning, from january, this is how they were going to behave and this is what they were going to do. they stuck to their guns and they got just about whatever they wanted. you can call them instain,

goofy, donald duck, osama bin laden, i tell you what a lawyer would call them pretty damn good negotiators. >> they took a vote in raising the debt ceiling. a one-line vote and turned it into a pivot point in national politics. they used a vote no one else would have noticed and got $2.4 trillion in cuts over ten years. i'm not defending them, but they did a good job getting what they want. >> you have been sitting on the show all last week, guests saying at what cost? what happened to our reputation in the world. >> read -- >> what happened to the cost of the country. tea party people got what they wanted. they won. there's no question about that. did the country win? do we get entitlement reform? no. long term deficit reduction?

no. is our credit rating more likely to be downgraded? yes. there's been a cost to this beyond the political victory for the tea party. the country suffered in this absurd process. >> ha's absurd is going from a $10 trillion debt to a $15 debt. people arguing we can push this can down the road as far as we want. what does the deficit reduction look like. >> if it wasn't for the fact is we went from a surplus in 2000 to a $10 trillion debt at the end of the bush presidency. >> bush increased it. obama is going to increase it.

>> let's not act like democrats created it and republicans are trying to change it. >> you are bringing that to the table because of the profound weakness of your own argument. >> no, no, no. >> you are trying to -- >> joe, you know the past four months hurt or standing in the world. papers and editorials are mocking us and not wanting to do business with us in any way. >> they will do business with us. >> they will, but it hasn't helped. it's possibly hurt as far as outside investors looking at us. >> do you blame the president at all? do you blame the president? do you blame the president? >> what do you mean? >> where was his plan? i have a lot of paper here. where is the plan.

>> you know he was willing to give. >> no, i don't. >> and the republicans were not. >> he said something about medicare and medicaid. >> mika, here is the problem. >> republicans never would give -- let me tell you, yesterday on "meet the press," they were saying we are willing to give on entitlements but we need this in return. we need certain things in return. >> mika. mika. mika, first of all, the president has known for nine months what these freshmen were going to do because they have been saying this is the issue. this is the date. mr. president, circle it. the freshmen have been telling leaders in the house and senate, circle the date. we are not going to give you a clean debt ceiling increase. they have been saying it for nine months. i went on the floor the day they

were sworn in. they were not talking about afghanistan or medicare or social security on that day in early january, 2011, they were saying circle the date, we are not going to just increase the debt ceiling. all of washington knew that. now, if the president and the democrats want to ignore this for eight and a half months and not put out a budget because they refuse to put out a budget because they know if they do the responsible thing and put out a budget like paul ryan did in the house, they get attacked. they decided to not show the courage, then get destroyed by the other side. you can blame republicans, if you would like for doing what they have been saying they were going to while barack obama ignored the crisis coming for

eight months. >> fundamentally disagree. >> you can disagree on opinions, but you can't on facts. the fact of the matter is -- >> what the president thought was, he thought he was not wrong about this. he thought he would be able to do the grand bargain. >> thank you. >> he thought he would be able to do a big package with john boehner. john boehner and mitch mcconnell were close to being there. the problem was not that barack obama didn't bring it to the table. he did. the problem was the tea party freshmen would not go along with their own leadership. >> what makes him think he can make a grand bargain. it's an interesting term. it suggests very big things, right? like tax reform. fundmental tax reform.

fundmental entitlement reform. i would suggest this is not something you get in a grand bargain if you negotiate from the end of the fourth of july fireworks display and the beginning of the back to school sale. >> i'm not defending how the president handled it. he had a willing counter partner in john boehner and mitch mcconnell. the only people not willing to do a better deal, all those people were willing to do it. the people willing were the tea party people who got a political victory. >> i disagree. >> they could have held the country hostage. >> yeah. all parties acted responsibly. if they all acted responsibly and the debate started in april,

we would have had a grand bargain, tax reform and entitlement reform. you know what? the president thought he could do it at the end. sometimes it take as bit of effort and form. >> sometimes it takes two to tango. >> hold on, let me write that down. that is a good one. two to tango. coming up, we're going to bring in senate majority whip, dick durbin, barney frank. he was described in the new york times as bleary eyed. arianna huffington and tom brokaw are going to join us.

>> great. >> where are they, who are they? here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning, everyone. we are talking d.c. all morning long. the weather fact of the day. yesterday was the last day of july. now, we are on the record books for the hottest month ever in washington, d.c. the average temperature in july was 94 for your afternoon highs. today, d.c. 98 degrees. 90s up to new england. watch for afternoon thunderstorms. want to talk hot? the middle of the country is going to be ridiculous. we have a tropical disturbance to watch. it could be a hurricane near florida by the end of the week. details as the week progresses. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. boy, i'm glad we got aflac huh.

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symbolically, this agreement that we are working on here is moving us to the point where we are having the final interment of john cannes. he died in 1946, but we are going to put him to final rest with this. >> i love -- durbin is a great guy. he's funny. >> very sweet. >> he's sweet. people say alec baldwin, sweet. >> my experience with him. >> i bet he's been sweet to you. >> what? >> one thing we didn't talk about last segment, politico.

now the question is, michael steel, really quickly, if the republicans got what they want, they better pass it through the house. if they don't, it's all their fault. this is all their fault. i will say, the crash will be on their shoulders. >> i think that a lot of folks believe at this point, that's the way to go at this poupt. the reality is, you put the ball in play. you got a lot of what you argued for. you moved the goalpost, if you will in terms of leadership in washington. take it and go for the other fight. there will be another fight in 2012 and in the fall with this committee. >> it will be a nightmare. >> i gotta say, too, willie, sometimes we are tough on harry reid. it's not personal. >> to quote someone high up in the senate, he's a weird guy, but he gets it done.

>> when i saw harry reid go out and be the first major player to say he endorsed the deal, i thought harry reid. grown up. >> gets it done. >> that was not easy for harry reid to do. i'll say, he did something very good for this country yesterday. >> yes, he did. >> i don't think it will go unnoticed. >> let's bring mike allen into the conversation. >> it doesn't mean we're not going to attack him tomorrow. but when push came to shove, harry reid stepped up and he stepped up big. >> he did. >> good morning, we are going to look at the political playbook. >> good morning, happy august. >> yes, august first. >> happy august. >> the candidates for president have been very quiet. i know you talked to mitt

romney's camp, what are they saying? >> right away, there were statements from michele bachmann. she said someone has to say no to this deal, i will. jon huntsman says it's not the deal he wanted but he's going to push for the opposite of what john heilemann predicted. he's going to push for tax cuts. good luck. you are right, mitt romney, very quiet. he is not talking about this deal, what's been negotiated. didn't say anything last night. this is a deliberate decision to let washington own this. to have him out there talking about jobs and not get involved in this mess. there's a lot of people working in the romney campaign that worked on the bush-cheney campaign in '04.

he would pick the bait. they were determined they wouldn't. romney was quiet last night. his campaign manager, matt rhodes over the weekend got engaged to the port authority of newark, new jersey. >> look at mike allen. >> congratulations. >> we have half of the game change team with us. john heilemann, does this strike you, as you put together game change two? does it strike you as good strategy for romney to say away from this? >> it's making a lot of people thinking he's leaving himself vulnerable. he's going take incoming as he seems to be running a weird strategy. >> taking the air out of the

ball. >> michele bachmann, she's against everything? >> everything. she's a member of congress. >> all righty. >> mike allen, talk to you soon. >> still ahead, arianna huffington joins us on set and plaxico burris. spent time in prison for shooting himself in the leg. sports is next.

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welcome back to "morning joe." time for sports. remember the name plaxico burris? he spent 20 months in prison for illegally carrying a handgun. not just carrying it, but shooting himself in the leg. >> it's a long time. concealed weapon inside a nightclub. he's out of jail and back in the nfl. he has the giants and steelers interested in him.

he came from the giants but signed with the new york jets. guaranteed money worth $3 million. the jets are getting ready to make a move to the super bowl. >> all right. >> four years $32 million. they resigned him because he lost to the eagles for the nfls free agent. a great pitching match up between verlander. ordonez inside the foul poul. 2-0, tigers. seventh inning, crushes a fastball into the seats. weaver is going to have a talk with the umpire. you'll see why here. this is as bad as it gets.

hits it, stares down weaver on the way to fist base. watch the next guy. weaver is thrown out of the game. he's still upset at the umpire, yelling from the dugout. watch this. verlander has a no-hitter in the eighth. angels try to break it up with a bunt. in the eighth inning, he lays one down. verlander -- same inning, ground to third. verlander drops the ball on the tag. he scores. fielder's choice. two outs in the eighth. slaps it to left field. there, finally goes to a no-hitter. 3-2. that was the final score. verlander throws eight innings

giving up that one hit. >> that can become ugly. >> that was exciting. it was an exciting afternoon. >> he wasn't trying to hit him in the head, just send a message. >> he should not be allowed to play. >> big play of the night. wood on the mound. kicks the ground. >> oh. oh. first double, no less. around the back. >> my. >> we call it a wedge in. >> yeah. top of the eighth with a man on. cubs beat the cards. red sox and white sox. top of the second, the captain two-run home run. seventh of the season. fresh off a 25-game hit streak.

lined to the left. red sox win, 5-3, completing the most successful july. red sox went 20-6. >> 20-6 in july? >> 20-6. it's not bad. yankees won last night. they beat the orioles. >> they are playing great ball. the red sox have had an incredible year, bad the first couple weeks. he's having the season of his life, ortiz having a remarkable season. gonzalez is the best hitter in baseball. if there's a better hitter, i would like to know who it is. he can hit anything. their weakness is their pitching right now. >> the yankees have the same problem. >> what else, willie? >> they are both going to be in the playoffs.

it's a question if you play detroit or texas. he's usually a .220 hitter. if the bats cool down, ha happens? is he going to wake up? he's still under .250. >> i have to show you one more clip. you know the x-games? k ime not sure this is goupg to last. they pile stuff and everyone gets stuck. >> i think we are going to scrap this one. >> they are saying i would like to see that. >> you have two guys that would like to finish the race. you know what, you try some things, they don't all work. >> that didn't work.

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all right, live shot of capitol hill. it's where it was all happening over the weekend. first, activists say the syrian government is becoming the bloodiest crackdown. at least four civilians have been killed today. they opened fire on pro-democracy protesters yesterday, killing at least 70 people. troops stormed the city in continuous calls for the president's removal from power. hamas, north of damascus has a long history against the family's 40-year rule.

the attacks come as the holy month begins. president obama released a statement condemning the violence saying the reports are horrifying and demonstrate the syrian regime. >> john heilemann, a lot of people are asking themselves, why did the united states and nato choose to intervene in libya? now, all we have are words for those rising up against our enemy's in the middle east, syria. >> it's a reasonable question to ask. the answer is unknown to me. truly, i think -- >> gunned down in the street. gadhafi was running citizens down. >> there are lots of examples to point to here.

they feel we should have never been in libya in the first place. >> i have two on the tea party. we'll start with "the new york times." consider what the towel snapping tea party crazies have already accomplished. they have changed the entire discussion. they've whipped their leadership into submission. they've taken taxes and revenues off the table. they have made journalists speak to them as if they are john calhoun and alexander hamilton. what if this is all a cruel joke on us? what if the people who hate government are good at it and the people who love government are bad at it? >> a great closing line. itis what we have been saying around here the past week. say what you will about the

hobbits, but they know how -- they know how to get what they want in washington, d.c. >> don't hate the players, hate the game. why doesn't the left get their own hobbits. where is their push they have them, but not the way they are in the conservative movement. >> the problem, as well, john, it starts with the president of the united states. when you have a democratic president and you are a democrat and this is a man who does not like confrontation. you, as a democrat in the house and the senate, you are at a disadvantage. you have to follow the lead of your president. >> it goes back to the show.

the naive thing about what would happen once the republicans came in was on display last september. when he was cutting the deal in the lame duck session. >> there's no good reason why he shouldn't have cut that deal then to get the debt ceiling extension off the table. >> wall street journal, the tea party triumph. in this deal, they forced both parties to make the biggest spending cuts in 15 years with more cuts likely next year. they are engaged in the size and scope of government. the most parent is in the election of 2012. >> tea partiers will -- it

didn't solve every fiscal item. >> that's the wall street journal. okay, guys. you made your point and you have won. >> yep. >> you have reframed the debate, now pass the damn thing. >> exactly. >> if they don't, i cannot state -- if this house does not pass what is before them now, the consequences in the 2012 election will be devastating for the independent voters who will determine whether barack obama is a voter? at this point they are watching. if the house republicans say no to a deal that harry reid says yes to, there are going to be

problems for them next year. the reality for the folks in the house and boehner is to grab the group of non-tea party conservatives along with nancy pelosi. 80 or so democrats to get it done. i don't see, to your point, folks backing away. they have to get it done. bigger fights loom ahead. >> that's the question, mika. you talk to the democrats who truly feel betrayed on the hill. if i was a democrat i would be torn right now. i would be damned to vote for a debt feeling increase so a freshman tea partier can take a free pass. i'm sorry, i think if i were a

democrat, i would vote no, no, no.

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is it time? tell me it's time. >> it's time for news you can't use. the deal was announced, the deal was done. >> he cried? >> no, he didn't cry.

we got a look into his ring tone there. >> do you think there's enough votes to pass it? >> hello? >> he's got the quacking duck ring tone. this was 10:00 last night. watch the look on speaker boehner's face. >> it's been a long couple weeks. >> i'm going to call him. >> call him. call him up real quick. >> hugo chavez has a new work out video. healthy government, healthy and healthy mind. he's had cancer of late. he's showing he's fit for

office. they are showing him doing exercises at the palace with cabinet members letting them know he is healthy. he did knee raises, it looks like. some head moves there. kind of a 1980s jane fonda work out. >> i think all of our leaders here in this country should be doing exercise videos for the nation's schools. seriously. >> support hugo chavez. you and sean penn going down this weekend? >> no. >> hang out. >> american imperialists. >> ahead in the next hour, chuck todd and dick durbin, arianna huffington and plenty more. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this...is the network --

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you have been quoted as calling this agreement a sugar coated satan sandwich. was that your quote? is that how you feel about the deal? >> it's a very accurate quote. when you lift it, it's what religions teach, take care of the poor and the aged. when you look at the phone calls i have got, 7-1 in favor of a balanced deal and preserving

medicare, medicaid and social security. i'm concerned about this because we don't know the details. until we see the details, we are going to be extremely noncommitted. on the surface, it looks like a satan sandwich. >> welcome back. did he just say -- >> a satan sandwich. >> that's what i thought. i have never heard that term. dave heilman is still with us. arianna huffington is with us. and in washington, we have nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of the daily rundown, chuck todd who i watched all day and into the night with the story. he owned it. he owned it! >> i will put down anyone that describes the deal as a satan sandwich.

how does it look on the republican side. >> i guess his vote, steny hoyer won't be calling him, i need one vote. it's going to be a heavy lift in the senate. we might see more democratic votes in the senate for the deal and more republican votes in the house. the house is the majority -- is republicans are a majority in the house. because the deal feels, if i would have shone you this before, you would think it's a republican deal. it's a slam dunk for the republicans. it's unclear what the numbers are going to be in the senate. the house vote counters really would like to see 75/25, or 80/20 out of the senate. anything less, it plays seeds of doubt in some members.

the basic math i have heard is kevin mccarthy and speaker boehner have to find 30 republicans. hoyer, pelosi need 80 to 100 to go. they make the math work from there and it's a bit of a puzzle. >> if you are a democrat, who is upset with the deal and see the tea party get everything they want, you know this because you know how washington works. the republicans are going to try to let the tea partiers off and let them vote no. that means they have to pick up a yes somewhere else. >> yeah. >> they say joe, tom can't afford this vote, okay, he's in a close election. you are going to win by 30%. you have to vote this way. why would a democrat allow a tea party member who has shoved them into the wall and gotten everything he wanted vote no to

win the next election? >> the argument a democrat would make is we fight to live another day. it's not -- it wasn't -- it was ugly. it wasn't -- it certainly isn't a policy victory and i think you look at it and call it a pentagon si loss. the loss could have been a lot worse. the white house has gotten the message they need to get better doing the negotiations and selling the deal. at the end of the day -- at the end of day -- >> trying to be polite, chuck. >> i know. >> look, this is not an easy sell. you say you have the supercommittee and 2012. one thing about the deal that makes me super cynical is somehow they concocted a deal that gives both parties their favorite talking point going into the election.

democrats can still take entitlements saying they want to gut it. we are the last thing standing in the way. republicans say when ever you are not looking the democrats want to raise your taxes. that is -- this deal doesn't deal with either of those issues. don't pretend they are going to do that. le's get realistic here. >> they have a trigger mechanism. >> wait a minute. why do you think there was such a big organizement over it? everybody thinks the trigger is going to get pulled. they don't think the committee is going to work. >> mika, the white house has to get better at the negotiation thing. does that make you feel better? does it give you more of a sense of confidence going forward? >> i think you are being patronizing. >> no, i'm not.

we all laughed at the same time. do you think the white house has to get better at negotiating deals with the republicans? >> i think the white house has to get better in politics. remember, the do it your way election, we talked about a great communique tor. he's not communicated to the american people what is at stake. if i would nlt have won the big doe bait, the only way to reduce the debt crisis is through spending cuts. the big debate is to convince the american people we cannot solve the debt crisis without solving the jobs and growth crisis. it's his argument. it's different to make it. he surrendered before he started negotiating. when he said yes, the voices of the american people have been heard. you are wondering what voices

they are hearing at the white house. it's not the voices of american people. they care about growth more than the deficit. >> i think that's true. anybody you talk to would feel that way. people are disappointed and at the point of giving up. >> it's a real breakdown of the political system. it's the mayor thing that happened over the weekend. i would predict right now, an enormous about of people who voted. it's a terrible moment for democrats. >> new voters got obama elected. he won by 9.5 million votes. that's really what's not going to be happening in l.a. >> tell them who the republican nominee is.

there are republican nominees who voters will turn out to vote against. >> not the new voters. the new voters, the young people who voted because they believe they are going to change politics and change washington. >> i think they may be skeptical by advertising that turns rick perry into the devil. if they are convinced the republican nominee is a threat to the country. >> that's true. i think arianna gets to a point that talks about how the energy for 2012 is going to come together for both sides because even though we sit here and say the republicans won the deal, there's a great deal of angst within the gop. we have not done anything about the spending and longer term and

commitments that need to be sure they are going to make the cuts they said. >> the president, it's recuring thing among the left. the president caves in too quickly. he allows his opponents to push him to the wall. moveon.org is not going to vote for mitt romney or michele bachmann in 2012. is there a historical reason for the left staying home and electing a republican? >> well, i think you would talk to some long time democratic historians and they would point to 1980. you saw the split in the party because ted kennedy ran against him and ran against him from the left. you could argue you saw a little bit of this energy issue come out -- air let out of the baa

loop. it does happen in that form. it's always been the conundrum. joe, you were there. there's a lot of griping about president clinton giving in and caving in and moving too far to the center too quickly, then people questioned. when he signed welfare reform, you put -- they called this the satan sandwich. you should have heard the comments then. i remember bill bradley challenging bill clinton from the left. there was a lot of hand wringing then. >> chuck, don't you think -- >> this is what president obama would say. he would say, i have to deal with -- i have to play the hand i'm dealt. i'm not dealt a good hand. i'm dealing with one group of

leaders who may only want to do one thing, but they will actually cut the baby in half, what am i supposed to do. >> wasn't it a very different economy? the economies are so different than the economy that's going to be prevailing and the job numbers prevailing during 2012. it's going to change the dyna c dynami dynamics, don't you think? it's how the president framed the debate. a smart person outside the world of politics now said the president should be using -- could be using republican business rhetoric to make the case for how government should be working. government does sometimes work like a business. ask how many businesses carry revolving debt. a business can't get out of the

kround. governments don't get smarter and businesses don't thrive. the president needs to get better about making the case about how government, yes, it should be run like a business. here is how it really works. >> what do you think, john. is there any chance democrats stay home in 2012 because they feel betrayed by the president? >> there's always a juncture when you talk about the left. there's a difference between the left and the professional left and the actual base. the polling shows the president is still popular among reagan democrats and the base. jimmy carter was never that popular. barack obama is much more popular than bill clinton was in

1996. arianna is right, it's going to be a bigger problem for obama than clinton. >> the only thing i would throw in here, our last poll, for the first time, we are starting to see parts of the democratic base show disapproval, not at the president yet, but shifting in right direction, wrong track. it didn't go up because more republicans decided we were on the wrong track. it was deep pockets of the democratic base that were on the right side of the aisle. >> does anybody, chuck, win policically if you look at the polls during this debt crisis? >> the easy answer is to say no,

nobody won. i think the president's campaign team would say look, this was the last big washington hurdle we had to get over. now we can focus on re-election issues, get back at our message, this or that. >> that is the most laughable thing obama said, neither can solve the debt crisis, we are going to move on to jobs. he's been saying that month after month. we never really move on the jobs. the idea that now he has more ability to do something about jobs after he surrenders? >> i think what chuck said, the president, this is the hand i would dealt. he has the cards. talk about how to move the economy forward. he didn't do that.

whatever cards he had -- >> he certainly doesn't use it nearly as effectively as bill clinton did. >> he should have gone to the 14th amendment. >> chuck todd, thank you. we'll see you at 9:00 on "the daily rundown". tom brokaw will join the table and barney frank. next, director of the white house economic consul, gene sperling joins us. first, bill karins has a look at the forecast. surprise surprise, today is going to be another day in the upper 90s in washington, d.c. 95 in philly. the hottest july ever, ever in baltimore and washington, d.c. let's talk about the heat. check out this extended forecast. 105 to 110 all week long in

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i want to urge members of both parties to do the right thing and support the deal with your votes over the next few days. it will allow us to avoid default, allow us to pay our bills and reduce the deficit in a responsible way and allow us to turn to the business to create jobs, wages and grow the economy faster than it is growing. >> joining us from the white house is the director of the

economic council and assistant to the president, gene sperling. i'm going to read from politico, a bleary eyed sperling who has been at the house saying obama wouldn't seek new revenues any way and will still push for a payroll tax cut. what do you make of this? will the president get some of the things we wanted on the table, ultimately, through the supercommittee? >> first of all, let's remember, a lot of people have not noted this, in the down payment, the trillion dollars in cuts, the president did secure from a republican controlled house, significant savings in defense and security. well over $300 billion in defense and security savings. he secured protection for pell grants, scholarships for 8

million students over two years. secondly, all the things in the house republican budget, the democrats wanted this president to stand tough on, not allowing deep cuts that hurt seniors in nursing homes. the president didn't give one inch. the president made clear, while he was willing to compromise, he was not willing to allow anyone to hold our economy or government hostage by using the threat of ball. we have to have an agreement that removed that threat into 2013. the president stood firm, never blinked. this agreement represents that. yes, we have a bipartisan commission coming forward where he can make his case saying we need shared sacrifice. a small group of people want to see the debts and reductions on the backs of seniors and don't

want to ask those most well connected or well off to contribute at all through revenues and tax reforms. >> gene, we have a lot of people around the table. let's go to john heilemann. he says he wants to geek out on you. >> i'll be brief. telling the caucus the supercommittee can't raise taxes. is that true or false? >> it's not true. if you have a super committee and people are announcing before it starts that they are going to take a hard line and not compromise, that's unfortunate. let's remember, in the senate side, there were over 15 or 16 republicans who signed on, if you want to geek out on the gang of six proposal. if you are not familiar with that, it was a bipartisan proposal where people asked for shared sacrifice and revenues

more significant than what the president called for. 16 republicans wanted to be part of an agreement like that. you have a few that are isolated and want to put the burden on medicare and working families. now we can have a national debate, the public is going to want to join with those who want shared sacrifice. there's a lot of republicans who have been silenced in the senate who will join that fight. >> arianna? >> it's been a show saying we don't have a debt crisis, we have a growth crisis. it's 1% of growth, additional growth over the next five years. we do more to reduce the deficit and debt than any amount of spending cuts on the table. do you agree? >> what i agree with is we are trying to take the threat of default or the threat of

escalating deficits, we are trying to fix those. if you are trying to take away the head wind hurting the economy and long term investment, they are right in the following sense. we have over 9% of unemployment and we have to do thing that is focus on job creation. when the president was in the big discussions with the speaker, was insisting we have unemployment for 5 million workers, a payroll tax cut for 150 million american taxpayers, we support infrastructure. yes. we need to have both short term measures to get the economy going. get stronger job growth. for long term confidence, it's important for the world to know we are going to get control of the deficit and it is important to take this threat of default off our economy right now. it certainly has been a head

wind. >> through the haze of the past seven or so months, does the white house or anyone inside the camp there regret not making this deal back in december before the republican congress came in? you could have gotten this done in december last year as opposed to stepping it so the republicans have play in this as well. >> of course we would have liked to have got it done in december. it wasn't possible. we tried. we were able to do a payroll tax cut that put $1,000 in the pockets of a typical family making $50,000. we extended unemployment for the long term. we were able to extend the tax cuts for the lower and modest income americans the most hard pressed in the economy. the president got a lot of

accomplishments in this december deal. we wish it would have been one of them. it wasn't possible. >> gene sperling, thanks for being on the show this morning. >> thank you, gene. >> how does he know it's not possible when they never tried? >> what are you talking about? come on? he is one of many house republicans who say they won't vote for the deal. barney mack is up next. david gregory on the set here at "morning joe." [ male announcer ] want a better way to track what you spend? pnc virtual wallet now comes with spending zone. it organizes all your spending, including your pnc debit card, credit card, and your bills. so you can view them by category...

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basically republicans block it unless you give us what we want. we say okay. we are having a debate in washington saying we are going to make the economy worse. are we going to make it worse on 90% of the republican terms or 100% of the republican terms. the answer is 100%. >> well, 30 past the hour. >> joining us now is tom brokaw.

moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. glad to have you here. >> framed in the same terms as paul krugman was saying. why don't we bring in a republican from capitol hill and see how many times he's going to vote for this. >> i wonder what the congressman from the state of florida says. worked with his dad. we worked together. connie, paul krugman hates this deal. the wall street journal editorial page says this is a great deal, take it. have you checked the rules to see if you can vote for this thing two or three times? >> well, joe, first of all, thank you all for having me on the show. let me say this, i don't think the american people are looking for a deal or a compromise.

they are looking for a solution to the problem. the problem we have is we have a deficit of $1.5 trillion and debt over $14 trillion. with this plan, we ensure we are going to have over $17 trillion in debt without solving the problem, which is spending. >> are you going to vote against the deal? >> i'm going to vote against it. i think speaker boehner did a greet job of pushing the debate, bringing it back to the principles we believe in. at the end of the day, i can't vote for something that ensures over $17 trillion of debt without a real solution to cutting spending in washington. >> there was a deal on the table, the outline where the president was willing to give up $3 trillion in cuts for $1 trillion in revenue. would you have taken that deal?

that sounded like a bargain. >> a good deal. >> right now, we are going to spend, we are going to add about seven to ten trillion dollars over the next ten years. the 3 trillion you talked about is over ten years. the spending is still going in the wrong direction. it's going up. we have to cut spending. it's why i introduced the penny plan. it freezes our spending and takes 1% a year for six years. one penny out of every dollar. the american people, the people watching the show want a solution to the debt and deficit problem, not more gimmicks. >> but connie, the hang in is in a couple days. you have to agree to a deal that doesn't cause panic and chaos in not only u.s. markets but world

markets. you know you are not going to get the perfect. give me the good that you would vote for. give me a good deal that you would vote for. >> again, the deal i would vote for would cut 1% a year for six years, cap spending. >> that can't pass though. this isn't the united states of connie or the united states of joe. what have you heard over the last couple weeks that you could support? >> nothing. >> all right. >> at the end of the day, joe, and what people are failing to see is the problem is the debt and the deficit. we need real spending cuts now. when people continue to do the gimmicks and play games, it frustrates the american people. they want us to be honest and truthful. cut spending. it is what people are telling me and telling you and your producers and everyone who is

watching. >> how many republicans on the hill are with you? do you think there are enough to actually kill this bill? >> yo. i think the bill will pass. speaker boehner has, as you said, he's done a great job in all of this. he's done a great job to get the votes he needs. the democrats will bring votes to the table and it will pass. we can't continue to add to the debt and deficit. >> all right. connie mack. thank you so much. >> thanks. >> say hi to your parents for me. tom brokaw. you have paul krugman to the left striking out against the bill saying it is the worst thing ever. the president is weak. he's capitulated. rather nasty descriptions of the president yesterday yet on the right you have people on the right there are some members who

don't seem to want to take a deal that most would -- the wall street journal, call a victory. >> look. i don't know anyone who is happy. i said this earlier on the "today" show when i appeared with my superior here, mr. gregory. no one is waking up saying this is peachy. this is fine. >> wait a second. you went to the "today" show first. >> i tried to warm up before i got here. it's like batting practice. no one is happy with this. by the way, this is not the end of the process. it's the beginning of the process. this is going to play out for the next year. this is the first half of it. we have the congressional committee to be formed. they have to report in necessary. it's likely when the republicans want to extend the bush tax cuts, the president is going to veto that and we'll have another

showdown. we had growth rate of 1.9% of gdp last friday. it could not be more anemic. terrible. terrible. we have 20% of the homes in this country and the mortgages are either in foreclosure or in a stressed state. we have more than 9% unemployment and no real indication that's going to change anytime soon. there's a kind of glacial recovery on the way. it's delicate at the moment. we are playing here, on a lot of different fields, joe. the volatility is enormous. the possibilities of additional damage are considerable. now, moving to the political side. this past week has been dominated by the tea party people. i said yesterday, they got angry, organized, they came,

said this is what we believe and they were able to see it through through discipline. if you want to change washington, you have to let the tea party. >> connie mack saying he's not going to vote for this. this is what people hate about washington for this reason. he's got installation. he knows it's going to pass. it's a safe vote. senator barack obama voted down a rise in the debt ceiling. why? he knew it was going to pass. he wanted to make a statement. the reality is, if congressman mack were the deciding vote on this compromise and they failed to do it. look what happened when they voted down t.a.r.p. did anybody like it? no. the dow went down almost 700 points. >> why would a democrat -- why would a democrat who hates this bill vote yes and put up with the abuse at home so connie mack

and republicans can take a walk? i don't understand why nancy pelosi is whipping this. i would say to john boehner, get 95% of your caucus and i'll start whipping. i'm not going force one of my people to say yes so your guys can get what they want. >> i'm your president, i need you to do this. we can't risk default. it's going to come back on all of us. we can't have a default. here is the other piece of this. this has been building up in the system for a long time. you can take the tea party to task for trying to unwind it too radically, too quickly by not looking at the balanced approach. there's been momentum toward cutting the deficit. >> you have 39% of the public that said jobs were the biggest

concern. 29% who said deficit was the biggest concern. i don't know what you are talking about. the majority is marked. >> arianna, the government can only do so much about jobs. they control the outlay. >> they can do a lot about infrastructure. it's crumbling. 20% of construction workers are out of work. >> right. >> the president took a big swing at the plate on that and it didn't have an impact. >> he didn't go to the people to convince them. we will never, ever solve the crisis and the debt. >> part of the problem is -- >> this is not about what the left is saying or the right is saying. i's about pure economics. >> tom. >> the problem was, the stimulus program that was put into place was in perfect -- >> about lieuly. >> that didn't help them

politically. you have two realities going on. you have the reality of how to resolve it on political terms. we have to keep in mind here, this is not the end of the game this morning. it's a holding pattern to get through the markets for the next week. it will continue to play out and i dare say dribble out for the next nine months. there are. there are many more fights to come here in terms of how we stimulate the economy. >> where will the faith in our system go. >> david. thank you for being here. >> my pleasure. >> have fun at fenway tonight. you're taking someone there. >> i'm taking my son. i don't see him. >> barney frank will be here and senator dick durbin. this is good. keep it here on "morning joe." [ man ] behind every business is a "what if."

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david gregory, at the end of the day, we didn't cure any fiscal problem here. we took care of a politico -- >> wait. isn't that what it's about? >> the underlying issue, these fights are not over yet. the 2012 fights are well in place. role of government. it's the.com gnat story. what is the role of our government in times of economic stress. entitlement spending in terms of what is driving the debt. tax reform. these issues are left unresolved. when their backs are against the wall, congress can only do the minimum. it does not inspire a lot. >> let's bring in democratic senator from illinois, dick

durbin and democratic congressman from massachusetts and ranking member of the house financial services committee, barney frank. let's start with you bernie. connie mack says he's not going to vote for this. why would steny hoyer whip votes if democrats are having to vote for a bill that is more republican? >> well, there's something that is very appealing to some of us. for example, it puts on the table for the first time something we have talked about, military spending. out of the republican opposition, for the first time, icon congratulate late the leadership that negotiated this. i believe, by the way, this will generate overwhelming pressure now for us not to stay in iraq any longer after this year and get out of afghanistan. every dollar spent in

afghanistan and in iraq is going to come out of highway construction and health care and education and local police and fire. that, i found attractive. more than that, there's a sense that, you know, one of my favorite thoughts of the 20th century was youngman. he had one great line. how's your wife? compared to what? that is what's driving people. a default would do such enormous damage to some of the most vulnerable people. as you said before, this is a bad thing. it's bad for unemployment. the other is to cut medicare. you can't cut providers across the board. the alternative is going to be so disastrous. one last point, for those of us who believe and i think that's right whoever said the debates

about government. if we have a default in the house, confidence in the a government by means we come together for public purposes would be so devastated our ability to come back where it's underappreciated would be damaged. those are the positive sides. >> okay. >> tom brokaw. >> out of all of this on the senate side with mitch mcconnell taking a lead role and harry reid working hard has there been a positive change in the tone going forward? it's not the end of a process, it's only the beginning. if i can offer one recommendation, if you are going to recycle youngman as well, like barney frank did, we would like better material. >> that was great material. >> i like it. >> let me say that the good news, tom, i think, is at the end of the day, with all the

time off during the weekend between conversations on the floor, members of the senate, democrats and republicans spent a lot of time together. it's amazing how much we agree. this was a serious crisis with the debt ceiling that needed to be averted. this is only a down payment on the challenge we face with our deficit to deal with it in an honest and comprehensive way. of course that means entitlement and revenue. i hope this committee can achieve that. even though this does some good, there's a lot more to do. >> arianna. >> you heard president clinton advise president obama about the 14th amendment and not be held hos tonlg, which is what he did. would you have agreed with president clinton's advise? >> as i said earlier, those of

us who believe that government has a role for positive achievement in society along ca we're in a kind of default position now. and we have to fight back. i believe that last year, the past year, the health care bill was unfairly demonized as having been done with procedural unfairness. that wasn't true. there was a kind of myth about it. but i do think for the president to invoke the 14th amendment now, not having thought about it before, after 150 years, would have exacerbated anger. i don't like this deal. but i think it would have been worse. and what we -- let me say this, i think what we now have, those of us like you, like me who -- tax cuts are fun, but i never saw a tax cut put out a fire. i never saw a tax cut make a bridge. we have to make the case for positive government.

the tea party did very well because in american politics, the people who were dissatisfied with the status quo tend to be the activists. the people who like the way things are tend to take it for granted. that's now flipped. the tea party -- we're going to see cuts in government. i think we're going to be exacerbated unemployment because there will be further state and local cuts and those of us who know that -- we are not now funding the government at a level that provides the services people want. people will have to choose. there cannot be this continued inconsistency. no, we won't raise taxes but we'll keep the service level where it is. and that's now an arena in which those of us who believe we have underfunded the public sector have to fight. >> david gregory. >> david gregory here. for the second stage of this process, what compels this super committee to take up the hard issues like tax reform, entitlement spending. is there any mechanism in place that makes them -- >> i can tell you what it is. on the republican side, it is

the prospect of almost $1 trillion in defense cuts over the next ten years. >> correct. >> you combine the down payment with what could happen. on the democratic side, of course, it is cuts in programs that are already, as barney said, taking serious hits and for first time going into medicare. i agree with barney. even though it is limited to providers and health insurance plans, the bottom line is we think medicare is critically important and we're ready to fight for it. so you have a compelling political case on both sides, democrats and republicans, to get something done. i hope something significant. >> first of all, this question of entitlement reform, i don't think reducing the income of a 78-year-old woman living on $19,000 a year is reform. so i hope that's totally off the table, the cost of living reduction. secondly, i believe properly argued this is going to be a leverage to get out of afghanistan and iraq. over $125 billion a year. that's what we can put on the table. and i think, by the way, that's a genuine popular across the

board issue in america. >> i don't disagree. i know a lot of republicans who feel that way. senator durbin, congressman barney franks, thank you very much, gentlemen. we'll be right back. >> thank you for your leadership. we appreciate it. [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.

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all right. now arianna has new huffington bites that are really good and focus on -- >> women. >> i like that. that's valuable. tell us about them. >> today we're launching huffpost women and then huffpost pare parents, but huffpost women, we have amazing stories today, including one about how college students, burdened with college debt, and not being able to find a job, are now going online to find sugar daddies who pay their debts. thousands of them. >> sugar daddies what do you mean by that? for the 12-year-olds that are watching and never heard that term. >> their profiles are called sugar babies and there is a story that we start the piece with, written by amanda

fairbanks, about this girl who leaves her school to go to greenwich to basically sleep with this guy to pay part of her college debt. so this is really some of the reality going on in america, while we're debating the debt ceiling. >> one story you can see on huffpost women, arianna huffington, thank you very much. tom brokaw, david gregory, thank you as well. more "morning joe" in a moment. have fun at fenway. >> go sox. >> yeah. hi, umm this other store has these for 20 cents less. what?! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -[ horn honks ] -match it! thank you, got it. i'll match that price right here. cool. [ male announcer ] get low prices every day on everything. backed by our ad match guarantee. and the savings are even hotter with the walmart sizzling summer clearance. get cool clearance prices on clothes, toys,

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there are still some very important votes to be taken by members of congress. but i want to announce that the leaders of both parties, in both chambers, have reached an agreement that will reduce the deficit and avoid default. the default that would have had a devastating effect on our economy. this process has been messy. it has taken far too long. i've been concerned about the impact that it has had on business confidence and consumer confidence and the economy as a whole over the last month. nevertheless, ultimately the leaders of both parties have found their way toward compromise. and i want to thank them for that. >> good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. it's monday. and back with us on set, we have john helmand and michael steele.

the house and the senate are expected to vote today on a package to raise the nation's debt ceiling. president obama announced from the white house last night that congressional leaders reached a last minute agreement to avoid default, admitting a the deal has some flaws. >> is this the deal i would have preferred? no. i believe that we could have made the tough choices required on entitlement reform and tax reform right now, rather than through a special congressional committee process. it will allow us to avoid default and end the crisis that washington imposed on the rest of america. it ensures also that we will not face the same kind of crisis again in six months or eight months or 12 months. and it will begin to lift the cloud of debt and the cloud of uncertainty that hangs over our economy. >> john heilemann, the left is very angry. the deal, mika.

>> it proposes a two-stage process to raise the debt ceiling by at least $2.1 trillion. it includes an initial $1 trillion in spending cuts over ten years. next, and this is one of the cruxes of the argument over the weekend, it forms a bipartisan committee to recommend additional cuts of at least $1.5 trillion. and if congress fails to act on the committee's recommendations, the deal would force automatic spending cuts. the proposed deal extends the debt limit through 2012, a priority for president obama. >> now, john, a lot of people on the twitter, on the left side of the aisle, very upset. you saw a lot in the blogosphere, people saying the president had once again caved, once again betrayed them. >> paul krugman this morning. >> some good ones. >> krugman said he surrendered. yesterday morning, dowd had some very tough words for the

president, no leadership. are those fair attacks of the president? >> i think the left has grounds to be unhappy with the president. >> why's that? >> well, you ended up -- look, the president spent the last three or four months arguing for a balanced approach, which, you know, in his parlance included some revenues. he had nothing that he wanted at the outset of this process except an extension of the debt -- lifting the debt ceiling and he got it off the -- and not having this vote again before the end of next year. for political reasons and economic reasons, that's a win, that's the one thing he wanted that he got. but on every other front, i think he did not get anything. and it was a -- every stage of the negotiation, republicans got more in policy terms than they started out with at the beginning of the negotiations. >> charles crowdhammer said the tea party won, they should take

it and go. >> i think that's basically right. i think that's basically right, yes. there is no question this debate was conducted largely on republican grounds and as i said a second ago, conservatives and tea partiers who wanted to keep pushing this negotiation further and further got more every time they pushed it further. it is true, i think, if you look at the deal they have cut, though, that some republicans and certainly many really conservative republicans are going to be a little bit upset to look up later and realize that this commission that has been set up and the way the trigger works is going to make tax increases much more likely, which i think is -- which i think is for the right thing for long-term deficit reduction, but the way it is structured, we're going to probably get to either some kind of tax increases, revenue increases within this commission -- well, yes, this question of how we get there. >> michael, whether or not our viewing audience or if you agree with the tea party's message in totality, have to be impressed by a small group of people who went up against a democratic

president, democratic senate and got what they want. they campaigned on it and they got it. >> they went up against republican leadership and the key thing -- the key takeaway here that i think a lot of people want to miss because they like the name call and all of that in washington is that you had a group of people that formed themselves, not just in 2009, but this group, this energy goes back to the republican spending and the bush administration that began to take them off then. you're talking 2005-2006 this has been bubbling. they organized themselves around a concept, and they went out and fought their point. so they told the leadership coming into washington, we're going to do this on different terms whether you like it or not and they stuck to their guns. and whether you like the outcome or not, the process changed. now what happens going forward is going to be another thing getting to your point about the commission, the committee in the fall and how that gets played out and what the tea party is able to do in terms of bringing

it to that. >> before we get there -- >> you have to be impressed, don't you? >> with? >> i know you and your kids, you're on summer vacation in 2008, you told me you were going to the city pool and they would be sliding down, going hope, change, hope, change, lifeguard blowing the whistle and -- >> no, no, that's not the scenario. >> but this is -- these tea partiers, that's real change. and i know you got to be proud of these kids that are fighting their hearts out and just going up not only against democrats and presidents and majority leaders, going up against their own republican establishment while you -- you may one day be a tea partier yourself. >> no. but i think you need to know that when my children were doing that, they were sitting at a pool that was surrounded by republicans, jumping up and going hope, change.

>> this summer, a lot of those old republicans will be working for you. >> i'm in trouble. >> aren't you impressed by them, though? >> by the tea party? >> that's true grit. >> their ability to hold us hostage, our economy hostage. >> we'll have every reporter using terrorist analogies against them, even though those were the sort of things that the same journalists that are doing it now attacked republicans for doing the first two years of the obama administration, calling them hostage takers and terrorists. >> they did and -- >> they did? >> yes, yes. >> the mainstream media did attack republicans for saying such things about barack obama and democrats for two years. >> the mainstream media forced the tea partiers to -- >> you can call them suicide bombers because they're republicans. that's the only -- >> there's a huge difference.

that's a ridiculous analogy. >> a crazy analogy. >> thank you. >> when the hostage was allegedly taken, it would have led to the collapse of the american economy. the actual catastrophe that the tea party was holding the country to in this case was totally different basis. >> a different magnitude. >> what were they holding the country to? what they were saying was you spent to this point, begin to have a conversation and talk about the -- >> michael, they were saying if you don't do what we want, we'll let the country default on the debts and bring the economy to its knees. >> you have the executive office, the senate, the democrats still control the senate, and, by the way, john, if the democrats are so serious about the economy and the future, mr. reid could have solved this problem in december of 2010 by going ahead and putting in the bill to up the debt limit, while they had the house, the senate and the executive branch to sign off on

it. if you want to take the thing back to the beginning, that's where it begins, mthe politics f this. >> if you're saying harry reid and barack obama were naive for not including a debt extension in that negotiation, you're right, they were naive. they foolishly believed that republicans would never behave this insanely. >> hope and change and you saw it with this group of people who came up and went to congress and actually did what they said they were going to do, fight for cutting spending in this government. >> this brings up another good point. now you called them insane. >> i called him insane. >> no, you said, you said that barack obama could have never seen that this group of people would have acted so insanely. so now, maureen dowd comes them political suicide bombers and terrorists from mika, you're saying they're insane. >> no, i -- >> i will once again say if you're just a lawyer, and you're looking at negotiating tactics,

and you're looking at this battlefield, willie, you got to look at these guys and you got to say, you got to say, okay, they came in, they had a go, they told everybody from the beginning, from january, this is how they were going to behave and this is what they were going to do, they stuck to their guns, and they got just about whatever they wanted. you can call them insane, goofy, you can call them donald duck, you can call them osama bin laden, i tell you what a lawyer would call them, a trial attorney would call them pretty damn good negotiators. >> they took a vote in raising the debt ceiling which had been routine over the history of this country, a one-line vote, and turned it into a pivot point for national politics. they used this vote which nobody else would have noticed typically and got $2.4 trillion in cuts over ten years. i'm not here to deviate tea party, but i'm suggesting they did a good job of using something to get what they wanted. >> they clearly did.

but you've been on this show all last week had guests on the show saying, at what cost? what happened to america's reputation in the world? what happened to our reputation with the credit rating agencys? what has been the cost inflicted on the country over the past four months? the tea party got what they wanted. no question about that. but did the country win? did we actually get entitlement reform? no. did we get significant deficit reduction? no. did we put the country at a place where the credit rating is more likely to be downgraded now? yes. so there are externalities here, there has been a cost to this beyond the political victory for the tea party. the country suffered in this absurd process of the last five months. >> what is absurd is going from a $10 trillion debt to a $15 trillion debt in two years. that's absurd. what is absurd is people arguing that we could push this can down the road as far as we can for as long as we want, which is part of what this deal does getting

to the point about what does all this deficit reduction really look like. >> those points have a lot more credibility, but we went from a surplus to having a deficit in the bush administration. >> he already brought that up earlier. we bring that up ad nauseam. bush increased it from 5.7 to $11.4 trillion. obama will increase it from $11 trillion to $20 trillion. >> let's not act like the situation was democrats created this horrible mess and now republicans are trying to -- >> you're bringing that -- no, no, you're bringing that to this table because of the profound weakness of your own argument. >> no, no. >> you're trying to bring -- >> joe. you know the house for months has hurt our standing in the world. >> mika, the question is who do you blame? >> editorials are just mocking us and quite frankly not wanting to do business with us in any way. and you know what, it hasn't

happen helped and it possibly has hurt in terms of outside investors looking this up. this is ridiculous. you can blame the tea party for part of that. they stood their ground so firmly that they didn't care about the external consequences. >> do you blame the president? >> what do you mean? >> did he care -- >> what was his plan? i have a lot of paper here. what was his plan? >> you know he was willing to give. >> no, i don't. he said something about medicare and medicaid, but he didn't -- >> here is the problem. >> the republicans never would get -- let me tell you, even yesterday on "meet the press," you can hear david plouffe saying we're willing -- what? we're willing to give on entitlements. but we need this in return. we need certain things in return. >> mika, mika, mika, first of all -- >> they were at loggerheads

yesterday at 9:00 a.m. >> the president has known for nine months what these freshmen were going to do. >> yeah. >> because these freshmen have been saying this is the issue, this is the date. mr. president, circle it. these appreciafreshmen have beeg their leaders in the house and the senate, circle the date, we're not just going to give you a clean debt ceiling. they have been saying this for nine months. i went on the floor the day they were sworn in. they weren't talking about afghanistan. they weren't talking about medicare. they weren't talking about social security. on that day, in early january, 2011, they were saying circle the date, we're not going to just increase the debt ceiling. all of washington knew that. now, if the president and the democrats want to ignore this for eight and a half months, and not put out a budget because they refused to put out a budget because they know that if they

do the responsible thing and put out a budget like paul ryan did in the house, they would get a tax. >> eviscerated. >> so they decided -- >> by the republicans. >> -- right, to not show the courage that paul ryan showed and then get destroyed by the other side. so you can blame republicans if you would like for doing what they have been saying they're going to do for nine months while barack obama ignored this crisis coming, for eight months. and then focus in at the end -- and then -- >> i fundamentally disagree. >> you can fundamentally disagree on opinions but you can't fundamentally disagree on facts. the fact of the matter is -- >> the president thought he and he was not wrong about this, he thought he would be able to make -- do the grand bargain. that's what he thought. >> thank you. >> he thought he would be able to do a big package with john boehner, and mitch mcconnell and they were close to being there. we know this is true. >> ahead this hour, we'll see

how wall street will respond today to the debt deal. cnbc managing editor tyler mathisen will be with us for an early look at the markets. and next, the china question, a new documentary what are the challenges facing the u.s. as china rai china rises? first, to bill cairns for a check on the forecast. bill? >> during the month of july, you said to yourself, this is one of the hottest julys i ever remember. good chance you were right. the numbers are in. we're now looking at the all time hottest july ever in washington, d.c. it was so hot it was the hottest average temperature ever for any month in history in washington, d.c. that same record was set in baltimore and philadelphia. so let's hope that august is a little bit cooler. as far as today goes, this isn't the start we wanted. temperatures are going to be in the 90s to 95 degree range from new england to d.c. we'll see some afternoon thunderstorms. those will be appreciated if they cool you off.

also, one of the stories to watch today, tropical disturbance, this will likely become our next storm that we'll have to watch, it could have a five-day trek through the islands of the caribbean, could be near florida on saturday. let's hope it doesn't become a big storm. if it does, i think we'll have to deal with it. in the middle of the country today, another day in the heat, 106 in dallas. that's your forecast all the way through next weekend. ridiculous. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] the healing power of touch can be even more powerful, with precise pain relieving cream. it blocks pain signals fast for relief precisely where you need it most. precise. only from the makers of tylenol. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different.

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how much of a downside is this? there is language and distance. >> the price is incredible. i pay 93 cents a hat, i sell them for $20, $25. >> how about just that it might be nice to source from an american company? >> i do. i do. and it is not easy. they close on thursday, they go home early on friday, they back order. they send me the wrong stuff, i'm telling you, i've had more problems with u.s. companies and i want to make my stuff here. >> that was a clip from the china question. a documentary exploring the challenges facing america as china becomes the world's second super power. the filmmaker traveled china and the u.s. to understand the implications of china's rise. he joins us now. brook, great to see you. that's a striking scene there, which sums up i guess the

problem for the united states companies. he can make a hat for 98 cents in china and sell it for $25. >> so why would you make one here? >> why would you? >> you won't. you wouldn't an yd you don't, a it turns out. >> tell us about that guy's story. he said explicitly, i want to make my product in the united states, but there is no incentive for me to do it. >> yeah, there really isn't. the companies that have tried have found out that it doesn't really work. i was down in alabama as the company that makes major league baseball hats, they closed their factories in alabama. they tried for years to make it work and decided they couldn't. >> and what are the complaints that he has about producing in china? is the quality worse or what -- we know what happens when you make it here, it costs too much, what about making it there? >> quality at this point is pretty good in china. what is difficult is the communication gap, not just the literal language gap, but different customs, different time zones, what you think is a

deal, they may not think is a deal. so there are difficulties in doing it. and some of the people we feature in the movie try to fill that gap and try to play middle men between the u.s. and china and it is those middle men that make a lot of the money, more than the factories. >> a lot of people refuse in america as a matter of principle buying something made in china. your mother is one of them. at some point there is not going to be much of a choice, is there? >> well, you can't buy usa but you cannot buy china. my mom does it. it is not easy. she doesn't buy anything she would like to, she spends more time in the mall when she's looking to buy something. >> why did she take that stand? >> for a few reasons. we frame the movie through her reasons. the combination of the moral and the economic. she's worried about sweatshops. she's worried about human rights how tibetans are treated and american workers and who will happen to the u.s. economy should we shift so much wealth there. >> seems to be an exercise in futility at this point.

just about everything you buy, if you look inside the label, it says made in china. >> my sister wanted to ask, have you checked the bottom of your coffee cup? >> you know what, i saw newt gingrich -- this doesn't go well for news. and we're not going to say anything right now. we're going to just hold off on that. >> my question would be have we given up on manufacturing in this country? yeah, we get the whole deal about the cost of manufacturing here versus anywhere else. >> but you know what is interesting, michael, yes, china is taking our jobs. you know whose jobs we're taking now? germany. it is a constant -- it is a constant thing where germany -- they're not going to build mercedes in china. they have actually found a workforce that is cheaper and they believe more efficient and

they can build quality cars right here. but it is -- but it is moving at all times. >> it is. the interesting part isn't that cup is made in china or the baseball hats. >> let me just say, my client has neither confirmed or denied that. put it down. put it down. you don't have to answer the question! >> i'm just saying hello in chinese. >> the u.s. doesn't need to make coffee cups and hats as long as it is making higher value things. but china gets that. and increasingly they're trying to move into higher value items and they have a really smart way to do it. they say, okay, general motors, okay, boeing, you want to sell us a bunch of cars, you can, but you have to source the parts from china, we have to learn how you do it, so one of the professors i speak to in the movie says boeing is selling all these plans to china now. in 30 years, 90% of our fleet will be domestic because we're learning how to make planes from boeing. >> how long were you in china? >> i was there over the course

of two years about four months shooting. >> did you get the sense, so many people, mika's father comes back and everybody that comes back, all the foreign policy leaders that come back all say that you look at their infrastructure, the way they're growing, it is like they're a 21st century country and we seem like we're stuck back in 1978. do you get that feeling when you come back to the united states? as far as infrastructure gos? >> the u.s. is less developed. i made a good friend in a city you probably never heard of called ningbo. she came to go to college in the u.s. and she didn't want to ride the new york city subway because it was so gross to her. because the subways are so modern there and new york is just kind of dirty and unappealing. >> what is that statistic in "the new york times" article that in the time that it is going to take us to build one small train spur -- >> new york to d.c. >> that china is going to do an

entire underground subway system in a city. major. they're just moving at an extraordinary pace. is there a chance the bubble bursts? >> you mentioned trains, maybe they're moving too fast. there was a tragic train accident last week, killed 40, injured close to 200. some in china believe, on the blogosphere, we're moving too fast and we're not able to keep pace with this development. that's the question, are they accelerating toward a speed bump or going down a highway and no passing. >> what is the societal strain you're picking up, any? >> i think it is very hard to know. >> okay. >> i just -- i still believe there is hope for american manufacturing. i get the competitive nature. and the fact that, you know, i know in our state, in maryland, it was 30%, 34%, 35% of our economy at one time, now it is down to 7%. if you look at reinvesting in the sense that you put back in

trade schools, trade schools back on the table, get kids focused on particular skills, you can begin to compete at that level as well. it is not just about the cost necessarily, but about the incentives overall that we're willing to commit to make sure that we can keep pace because, as you noted, you're going to get down that road a little bit and hit a speed bump in china. we want to be right there when they do. >> there is a reason, again, why mercedes and nissan and other cars are being produced in the southeast and not in -- in tennessee, in alabama, and bmws in south carolina, in georgia, and not being produced in connecticut, rhode island, vermont, new york. it is because of workplace rules and because of taxes. and at some point this country is just going to have to understand that people make decisions like new balance, new era, based on economic decisions.

where can i make these products and keep our company doors open? >> and to chairman steele's point, you talk to people across the ideological spectrum, what they agree on is what the u.s. needs to do is educate. the battle is not going to be doing stuff with your hands, it is going to be doing stuff with your mind. >> the documentary is "the china question," brook silva-braga, thank you. what's coming up next, willie? any idea, any clue? >> how the markets will react to the debt deal. tyler mathisen. >> you know if tyler's there, it is going to be big news. ♪ stars when you shine jennifer hudson is our little cousin. jennifer shined a new light on everything. she really inspired me. i said to myself, "if she can do it, i can do it." weight watchers pointsplus makes you slow down and think about

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in pelosi's office, she's talking about what the impact of the ultimate deal will be. >> a liberal member said to me his fear is the poor are going to get hurt and the rich are going to get by. without harm in this. is that your fear? >> my concern is for the great middle class. and we want to have a resolution of this that is 100% for the american people. the republicans want a resolution that is for 2%.

>> mr. speaker, is it fair to say you have a bit of a rebellion on your hands or do you feel -- >> i've got a little rebellion on my hands every day. it comes with the territory. >> you're not worried? >> never let them see you sweat. >> 36 past the hour. it is time now for a check on business before the bell. you know it is a big day. >> yes. >> big news day. >> what? >> big things are happening. >> yeah. >> when we have cnbc's managing editor tyler mathisen live from capitol hill. >> oh, my lord. locusts will be descending soon. why else would tyler be there? >> they have brought the big gun in to get this debt crisis solved so i came down from cnbc headquarters and i'm here on capitol hill. there is one big dome right here. there is an even bigger dome behind me. >> tyler, america waits for your deep baritone to soothe their jangled nerves. give us got news this morning.

>> america turns its lonely eyes to you. the good news out of this deal is that the markets around the globe seem to be very much encouraged by it. in europe, british stocks are higher by 1.5%. in frankfurt, up by half a percent. ditto in paris. asia was higher as well. and when the markets open in the united states, in about an hour from now, expect the dow industrials to be up by about 150 points. that's what the futures, those are basically speculative bets on how the markets will open, and there you see japan up 1.3% and hong kong up. the dow is expected to be higher by about 150. nasdaq by about a little less than 2%, about 1% or 27 points in the s&p 500. after last week, one of the worst weeks in a year, with all of the major barometers down, this is the classic form of a relief rally, provided, of course, that the deal struck

last night holds. the fat lady hasn't sung yet, folks. >> i guess that's the question. so we have been hearing, tyler, for some time that even if this deal passes, we could still get a downgrade, downgrade from moodys and s&p. does that threat still loom out there large? >> it certainly does. and most especially in the form, joe, of s&p. they have been the most aggressive and the most outspoken. back on july 14th they said that they were putting u.s. debt on their basically watch list for possible downgrade and put some markers in the sand saying that what they were looking for was some sort of grand deal that over time would reduce deficits by $4 trillion. well, this deal doesn't do that. it gets up to $2.5 trillion level or thereabouts in multiple steps. there is sort of that element of can kicking that is such a popular metaphor these days.

and s&p may not be placated. moodys and fitch have been a little more measured. you can bet this, guys, s&p is under tremendous pressure from the political forces not to do a downgrade and to sit there and watch and wait and keep it -- keep the rating where it is, which is aaa, which basically says riskless and priced as such, and maybe on watch to see what happens when this 12-person congressional panel presents its recommendations in november. they're under vast pressure not to do damage to the credit rating. >> wow. >> all right, tyler mathisen. >> where is that pressure coming from, tyler? >> it is coming mostly i would suspect from the administration and in the form of the treasury secretary, though i have no independent knowledge that he's been on the phone talking to them, but certainly they would -- they would feel it internally, even if nobody was making phone calls. but i suspect that the political forces and factors are there

working the phones pretty hard. >> tyler, thank you. >> thank you, tyler. greatly appreciate it. >> we'll be right back. as much as i can about a company before i invest in it. that's why i like fidelity. they give me tools and research i can't get anywhere else. their stock screener lets me search for stocks with more than 140 criteria. i can see what their experts are thinking and even call them to bounce an idea off of one of their investment professionals. a good strategy relies on good insight. if you wanted to learn more about a company, i think you'd actually have to be there.

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"the new york times," fury over the train crash. chinese authorities enacted a virtual news blackout on the disaster. except, of course, for positive stories. 40 people were killed in the crash. and for many, the train wreck

crystallized concerns if the government is risking people's lives in pursuit of break neck developments. the soldier who became the unintended star of "restrepo" returned to afghanistan two years after leaving. the specialist said he wanted to go back, i know the terrain, i know how to react to them, i know how to survive. in afghanistan, pakistani intelligence officials are saying that americans fired missiles and killed three suspect militants in the south of waziristan region near the afghan border. the first strike in pakistan since july 12th and comes as the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff admiral mike mullen is calling on pakistan to eliminate safe havens. in an interview with the bbc, mullen said the country with afghanistan is a lot more secure. but, it is still the epicenter

of terrorism. >> security is much better, but certainly the spike in violence brings alarm to them and to all of us and we're figuring out a way to get ahead of all of that. i'm not completely surprised. activists say the syrian government is shelling the city of hamas for the second day now and what is becoming the bloodiest crackdown in country's four-month long uprising. at least four civilians have been killed today. security forces backed by tanks and snipers reportedly opened fire on pro democracy protesters yesterday, killing at least 70 people. >> killing at least 70 people. i mean, these were the sort of activities that actually got us into libya. >> reports say -- >> and this continues. >> stormed the city to quell and continues for calls for president bashar al assad to be removed from power. hama has a long history of defiance against the assad family's 40-year rule and fell out of government control this

past june. the attacks come as the muslim holy month of ramadan begins. in response to the brutal assault, the european union is announcing it will expand sanctions against syria. >> again, great question, what is the united states of america going to do? why do we strike out against libya but not syria? somebody who has been an active enemy of ours for decades. >> it is a good question. up next, the devil double. in 1987, an iraqi army lieutenant was ordered to become the body double to saddam hussein's blood thirsty son uday. dominique cooper plays uday and his body double in a new film and he joins us next. hi, umm this other store has these for 20 cents less. what?! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -match it! -[ horn honks ] -match it! thank you, got it.

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we're going to be seeing a lot of each other. when you see the press tonight, this is what you should be saying to yourself. i am uday saddam hussein. >> they can use makeup. >> what about the teeth? >> oh, two peas in a pod. >> that was a scene from the new

film the devil's devil, about an iraqi army lieutenant in 1987 ordered to become the body double to saddam hussein's son uday. dominique cooper plays both uday and the body double roles and dominique joins us now. that must have been something. first of all, just playing both and -- >> well, the story is tough. it is unbelievably compelling. and the opportunity to play both these extraordinarily different people, one of which was forced into such a horrific position he didn't want to be in or involved in. but essentially we use the story and we manipulated it to our advantage to make a film. >> mm-hmm. >> and my job really as an actor was to make sure that i, even though i got to know latif, i had to make them distinctly different so when an audience watches it, we're always hopefully aware of which man

we're seeing. they were physically similar, but they were very, very different men. >> how do you understand someone like that? isn't part of getting into character is truly understanding and finding the good, the bad -- >> you have to find -- that was my real concern. i spoke to them at length, how can i look through this guy's eyes, how can i get under the skin of him because i hate him? and that was about understanding who -- his background and understanding his father was saddam hussein. he was a dictator. and he -- i don't think he paid any -- gave any respect to uday. he certainly didn't think he was capable of any military advice. he didn't believe in him. he was never going to hand uday the reins of power n that culture, that was extremely offensive. you can understand this burning anger or hatred within this man. >> what part did he play in the atrocities that were the saddam hussein years? we hear the stories about him and his brother using the

olympic facility as a personal torture chamber. we heard all these things. was he acting alone? was his father -- what was his place there? >> it seemed as though he wanted to sort of -- it was a cry for attenti attention. he was given menial jobs. he was in charge of the olympic committee, which, to my knowledge, i learned, it was chaos. and it was, you know, you lose a game of -- it is a game. they get tortured or locked up. it seems he had no real concern for anything other than harming individuals. but, i mean, all that said, our film is not a political rant or a statement. it is very much about this particular story, of this guy having to double up and catch a bullet for a man that he hates. and i think we exploited facts or dumbed down facts we know. and the truth is no one really knows the truth of what went on. no one really knows what was said between these people.

so therefore we have manipulated it for the benefit of the film. >> what kind of things did this double have to do for uday? >> well, he went into ultimately very volatile situations. the ones in which uday wasn't able to show up or be the celebrity that maybe he wanted to be. when his father talked to troops, dangerous, very, very dangerous situations. tv appearances, or just as someone to misguide people into believing he was not the -- this guy, i say he's so different, he was -- he's a military man. he was much more considered. he was still -- he thought about everything that he said and looked and waited to respond in certain situations. uday is a maniac and sort of flamboyant with his gesture. he was extremely well educated

and could speak extremely quickly, so very, very different individuals. this man, latif, he had to learn -- he wasn't an actor. he was a soldier. he had to, for the matter of his life and death and his family's life or death, had to suddenly become a really good actor it seems and do tv appearances, do speeches and to be thrown into the sort of lap of luxury and this opulence and extravagance having come from quite the humble background must have been extraordinary. and it begs the question how seduced was he by this suddenly all powerful position that he found himself in? i found that truly mesmerizing. >> the film "the devil double," dominic cooper, thank you for being on the show this morning. we'll be right back. of your s in one place. ♪ the race of your life you never ran. the trip around the world you never took. the best-selling novel you never wrote.

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welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned about today. mika? >> i think the tea party took the country hostage. i'm sorry. nothing has changed. come on. >> what's old is new. the boehner plan survived a lot of the noise. we live to fight another day. >> john? >> a lot of complaining and whining about this deal from the left and the right, but it is going to pass. >> willie? >> i regret to say the chairman tried and failed to make the tea party sound cool when he said don't hate the player, hate the game. >> i