it's crazy. i've seen it. nice to see you as well, martin. see you tomorrow. >> god bless you. >> have a good one. the big story today, raw deal. nice to see you. i'm dylan ratigan. it's a fine day here in new york city. a pleasure to be at work and the shenanigans continue in washington where we allegedly have a debt ceiling agreement, which means we'll politically be allowed to borrow readily available money, but there are no scheduled votes to do it, and we're barreling, of course, towards that deadline, not to mention the real story is that the deal kicks the can further down the road providing political cover through the president through 2012 so the democrats get that political cover, because they tell us their plan is good for america, but what about jobless people in this country, which are getting bigger, not smaller. what about homeowners, more not less. what about americans that are

completely giving up. what about our fundamental american prosperity and is anything washington is doing leading us in that direction? nbc's luke russert starts us off with the latest what we're watching play ow in congress. get into the philosophy and the rest of it in a second, luke. tell us the tick tock here. what exactly are the mechanics of what we're dealing with here today? >> reporter: on this debt compromise deal, it's expected for that stroet happen in the early evening hour. they're debating on the floor right now. we've heard anywhere between 6:00 and 7:30 is a good idea. there's a question whether or not it will pass with the needed votes. speaker john baoehner has been optimistic it will pass. in an interview earlier today he said that. he needs democratic support. democrats in the house, vice president joe biden, a lot of them, quite angry with him saying he went way too far to the right along with president obama in this debt deal. nancy pelosi is actually not

whipping this bill. sending out an e-mail survey to see where their members stand. it's believed john boehner can deliver more than half of his republican conference, it's needed for nancy pelosi and citizeny hoyer steny hoyer to get to the 216. most thich the deal will pass, after four months of this debate everyone wants it over, but it's still going to be an anxious moment on capitol hill. expect that to happen and then to the united states senate tonight. that harry reid's deal. signed by president obama tomorrow, wait ahead, probably, 12 hours, 14 hours, 17 hours before everything were to be running out. 11:59 tomorrow evening. so, from capitol hill, dylan, a sense that our long national nightmare, as told to me, supposed to be complete, but still not all the way there. you can't play a stevie wonder "signed, sealed delivered" yet. probably 7:30 before you do that. >> even when you do play that after the deal, still unemployed

people, underwater homeowners and despair and no prosperity. don't know what they'll be celebrating. bye, luke. and david schweiker is back with us. pleasure to see you, congressman. you cold cnbc this morning you're leaning no on the deal. have you changed your point of view this afternoon? >> no, dylan. i'm actually about half way through reading every line of the bill and so far i'm still, shall we say, playing it safe and leaning no. >> why? >> i'm actually disturbed by one thing. it cuts only $21 billion next year. well, think about this. how are we going to hold a future congress when there's a new congress seated two years from now? all the cuts that are supposed to be in these out years are almost ethereal. we can't bind a future congress. >> what do you want? in other words, in the context of -- i know you and i can talk

at great length about prosperity and job crazy. in the context of this piece of legislation and this debt ceiling, what would be something you could vote yes on? >> well, actually, you lit on a couple of things i wish we had spent more time, and i know this is going back to wishful thinking. talking about, we're trying to raise the debt ceiling. what are we doing to bend the debt curve. oh, by the way, could we also adopt inner structure? a lot of the other things that would start to grow jobs, because we're never going to be able to cut ourselves out of this problem. we've got to grow and restrain spending. >> so -- let's stop there for a second. obviously you and i agree upon that. it has not felt that either the house republican caucus has echoed the rhetoric you just offered up which su need to advocate prosperity and have a prosperity agenda simultaneous to cutting the fat and

inefficiency and redundancies of government. how do we get to a more balanced prosperity as opposed to lost and this sort of nihilism? >> a brilliant question. etalk about it constantly, in committee in caucus. for some reason we don't do enough of it like we're doing in front of a camera. look at the work in my committee, financial services. trying to find ways to get capital to start flowing again, particularly to a lot of our job creators on the smaller side it's out there. we know we have this huge -- >> but you're in a unique position, congressman, because you are courageous enough to engage somebody like myself, who drives, tries to drive a pretty hard barge and i don't believe in ideology so much as i do analysis and a north star of prosperity, but at the same time -- >> your more results oriented. >> and i have a goal, prosperity for america. right? i'm humble enough to know i have no idea how to achieve it but i need to engage in some problem

solving to help get there. i do not understand how can you be in a position to share that conversation with me, have access to the house republican congress, and still i don't see any legislation from either political party that has a shared prosperity agenda or any debate around it? >> i'll tell you, it's out there, and hopefully we'll get off our duff and in the next couple of month that becomes our fixation. weren't of one of my fears is the silliness, the dance we've been through in the last three weeks, a month. this is going to be our cycle, because come september, we're going back into a budget continuing resolution cycle all over again. because if we can't get sort of a budget agreement from the senate and the house, then we ge back and do this continuing resolution dance. >> isn't the onus on john boehner and republican leadership, barack obama and democratic leadership to set a north star for prosperity debating around as opposed to

manipulating ideas and mechanics in order to exchange power? >> yeah. this is one of throws occasions i would even go beyond where the president is and say, we need the senate majority to step up and start working with us. okay. you don't like our budget. fine. amend it and send it back. put something on paper. and there's a lot of us who now believe the reason the senate's gone, what, 800-some days without doing a budget, is once you put it on paper, it articulates to the american people how bad the numbers really are. and they're so much worse. when you and i talk about this document taking care of 21 billion next year, we'll follow a 1.5, 1.6 trillion next year. >> it's a disaster. before i let you go, i would argue the solution to the disaster is prosperity, not austerity, but let's talk for a second about -- tell me, i just want to you check me. is my analysis of the deal too cynical?

i look at this deal and here's what i see and then i'll let you go. i see a republican leadership or group that got enough of what they want, which is cuts without revenue, without taxes, that it looks. >> for them politically. i see a president who got what, was the only thing that mattered to him, the ability to kick the can down the road on this conversation past 2012. so the president gets what ewants. i don't have to deal with this again. the republicans get what they want. look at the cuts i got, and american prosperity gets, you know, the finger. >> well, don't forget, a lot of the democrats have the chance to have some pretty substantial cuts in defense. so -- you know, everyone's annoyed by the deal but everyone got something. >> everybody except for america. >> well, that's -- isn't that ultimately what we need to be focusing on? is how do we start dealing with this debt curve while at the same time finding a way to get this economy to expand? >> absolutely. i would flip it and say, we must make the economy expand by

definition change the debt curve. >> brilliant. >> a pleasure. representative schwikert, appreciate your engagement. look forward to the future. mega panel is here. lloyd weber, sam seder from the majority report, tim carney, columnist for the washington examiner. it's challenging, because you have one perception of the megging and you see the legislation and the rest of it. you find yourself in a conversation with representative schwikert who make as ton of sense and engaging in the conversation and i get confused how i can go from tom coburn to tony to schwikert, then i look at the legislation and it reflects absolutely, positively none of anything that was being discussed. >> you're right that there are both sides providing political cover. because of the republican, the tea party phenomenon, political cover for republicans is looking like you're cutting spending and reducing the deficit. looking like. political cover for the democrats, though. interesting.

what obama's trying to do push off a debt limit debate until after the election and charge republicans with trying to cut medicare in the next election. the right pushed their points, substantive, even if it's almost illusionary, while the left is just -- >> playing systematic -- >> by their leaders. >> right. >> and i would argue perhaps -- >> let us know -- >> wait a second. i would argue president obama's agenda isn't particularly interest in this incident. more electoral. that's divorced from where the -- >> well it's left -- >> i understand. that's all of my problem, frankly. but the way i started my show today, the debt ceiling deal, the bottom line is, unlike what the congressman told you, the idea that we would frontload cuts. someone explain to me highway we cut $100 billion out of the budget and we grow jobs? i mean, that is fantastical. it is -- we're talking about --

marsh marshmallow. >> we don't agree on what's going to bring prosperity i. agree with sam. go on. >> one side is arguing for something that has no basis in compare simp comparisonism. >> other side playing moo manipulation of power that has nothing to do with prosperity. >> playing politics. it's not actually economics at all. great. leader of the free world. a bit of admiration. not. the chinese paper over the weekend talking about how this was a farce and the rest of the world thinking, this is a farce. the swiss francs, supposed to be america, the dollar, the security of the world and this is how it's being led? it is ridiculous. >> the end of the day, is the ultimate failure a failure to have a shared value system for

how to solve a problem? it's not that -- sam's idea or tim's idea or my idea or any other senator or president or the ideas aren't good or bad. it's that we do not even have a shared value system that would be the thing we would show the world, which is look at how america solves difficult situations. >> exactly. >> we are not able to even do that. >> a reasonable discussion. reagan raised taxes 11 time, the debt ceiling -- >> tailored to the times. go ahead, sam. >> the process issue is secondary to the fact we literally are ignoring imperrickal reality. >> on your program nine months ago. the british are engaging in austerity program. is anyone using this as model, i way to tell. >> there's a benchmark. >> what we do in the future. it's a complete disaster. is timply doesn't work to cut government spending and you're going to grow out of that, because somehow people with no jobs and no money are going to think in the future i'm not going to have to pay as much

taxes. it's just -- >> the fact of the matter, prosperity, i agree with dylan. prosperity is the only way that we reduce the deficit and prosperity involve ace lining the profit motive with things that are productive and make us more prosperous. when government gets involved, republicans or democrats, they align politically favors, solar panels today or drilling in particular parts of the gulf tomorrow. when the free market's involved you get rich by providing people what they want. >> people don't have the money for what they want. >> another issue. before you get in, another issue. i agree with what tim just said. however, where i believe that philosophy is mortally compromised is by virtue of the fact the free market is in fact a manipulated market because industry influences government to alter price, alter market structure, alter available choices. and in an idealized world ai

glee, prosperity comes to align interests to solve problems and as a result prosperity results, but as long as we have manipulated resource availability, which is not politically motivated, it is industrially motivated by manipulating two political parties and as a result i have strul manipulation of a political institution that is manipulating resource availability while maintaining the power through the illusion of two political parties. >> the house is on fire and you're arguing we should build these things with a better egris. i'm saying we need to deal with the fact that the house is burning. >> i agree. i don't disagree with that. >> there's another -- >> i don't know that's the way. i think -- ai agree that's the right debate, i don't agree -- >>s 15ds trillion in debt. >> the $16 trillion in debt is more like being overweight. >> exactly. >> you're overweight and the house is on fire. the question is, do you want to lose weight or do you want to put the fire out? anyway, get a wod in.

>> british deficit reduction, actually we dealt with our deficit, might have stagnated growth. we're not america. that is what -- >> 180 degrees. >> 7.7 -- in the uk and still small growth there. >> tim just said you still have the king and queen and all that stuff. >> i know, but, hey, what more do you want. >> we'll take a break. straight ahead, the progressive agenda left out to say the least in this deal. progressives steaming at this last-minute deal, and a little electoral manipulation for the president. kick the can beyond the election. what does senator bernie sanders think about this kind of deal making. also, blowing their top. the tea party is mad as hell and with the injustice in this country, you can understand why, but does burning yourself in the town square and taking everyone

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all right. in washington, no one's feeling good about a debt deal. the tea party associated with a lot of discontent the way the process works on capitol hill. truthfully at this point when it comes to ideology, the progressives feel ignored and

left out in the debate. bernie sanders serves on the budget committee and calls the deal a huge victory, but not for his party, not for america, but for the republicans. do you care to explain? >> well, what it is is a defeat for ordinary americans and a huge victory for the wealthiest people in this country and the largest corporations. dylan, every poll out there says that the american people believe in shared sacrifice. they believe that if we're going to deal with deficit reduction it has to ask wealthy people and large corporations to also sacrifice. to pay more in taxes. that you can't move towards a balanced budget just on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the children and low-income people. at the end of the day, what this proposal is about is that the wealthy, the million fair nairs, billionaires, large corporations pay nothing in taxes, will not contribute one penny towards deficit reduction.

but middle class and working class people have been decimated by this recession who have lost their jobs, lost their home. where we have the highest rate of child and poverty in the industrialized world, those are the people who are going to have to suffer through deficit reduction because they are the people who are being targeted. >> and as you probably have heard me, senator sanders, it seems to me that instead of working towards a shared prosperity agenda, as a group of people -- forget shared sacrifice for a minute. a shared prosperity agenda where our goal is employment, available health care, clean, independent energy, and we're humble enough to say i don't know lew to get there. it's like going to the moon. but i know if we don't share certain values like integrity and aligned interests we will never solve these problems, and it appears we have neither the values nor the destination, just manipulating ideas and mechanics

for power. is this the country you grew up in? >> i look at it a little bit differently, dylan. it's not that i disagree. i look at it differently. the reality here on the united states senate is what i know that the people have the money. the big money guys, they're lobbyists. the big campaign contributioners, they influence what goes on here to a significant degree. i think there are very few people in america who would say, hmm, let's cut social security benefits for a low-income senior citizen in 10 or 20 years but at the same time, let's give the oil companies who make billions in profits and pay nothing in taxes on occasion a further tax break. nobody believes that. but what happens here, the entire debate is being influenced by big money. you've got a very strong and aggressive tea party which is holding the line, and in effect representing the wealthy and the

very large corporations. >> the tea party would argue, maybe in effect that's what's happening in the sense you're arguing what they're doing is advancing those policies that benefit those institutions, but do you believe that people that have joined up with that tea party, in their minds, hard for any of us to know i suppose, it's to me, the people angry at an unjust system aened don't know what to do about that so they want to shut it down, which is like burning yourself in the town square to solve a problem. >> i would agree with you. look, the degree that you have working class people. give you an example. a poll came out a few months ago and asked people sympathetic to the tee party, do you want to cut medicare and medicaid? overwhelmingly, they said, no. the tea party is a manifestation of the extreme anger and frustration that working class people are seeing in this country. and what people are seeing, my job is gone to china. i can't afford to send my kid to

college. without addressing global warming. we're not creating, protecting our children. what is going on? the rich are getting richer. everybody else is getting poorer, and you're right. i think that frustration has taken folks into a tea party movement, which the problem is shut the government down. government is terrible. and what they are really inadvertently saying, let's give more power to our good, wonderful friends on wall streept who stay up nights worrying about working families. >> and, again, basically you have the energy there, and instead of taking a creative path towards prosperity it's taking a destructive path that has these issues. my last question for you, quickly. you've said the president should be primaried. do you believe that today? and do you have any ideas who would do it? >> i think the president should be held accountable for the things he said during the campaign and what he's doing right now. and one of the issues that bothered me the most is social security has not contributed one

nickel to the deficit. after $2.6 trillion surplus. the president suggested that we should make cuts in social security. he has suggested that we should raise the eligibility age from medicare from 65 to 67. he has got to be held accountable for those statements compared to what he said during the campaign. >> i agree with that, senator, and grateful for the opportunity to talk to you. thanks for your time. >> thank you. >> bernie sanders. do you agree the president needs to be held accountable for those issues? an running a primary? >> absolutely. >> not getting the debate we deserve from the republicans or president, most adpree we're not getting. is the only open chair now to put somebody in that primary chair against obama who can move the debate to a prosperity agenda? >> look, i don't know who that person would be. it's hard to answer. >> i would argue eliot spitzer if it wasn't for the whole hooker thing. >> listen, believe me -- >> that guy would be the best

primary challenge in town i. agree totally. i would like to see someone get up there. >> i wish they'd get over the hooker thing and think about it. >> get up there, bring this point to the forefront. the very least we can do as progressives make it clear that president obama is not elected as you might want to call him, he is not a progressive. he's not liberal. he's not pursuing those policies. he's a democratic president that's flying conservative democrat. >> whose preserving his presidency as best he can by doing -- >> he is not a -- not a progressive. >> i'm not sure what he is. >> he's bill clinton again. right? by the way -- >> run eliot spitzer? sanford up there? >> great. >> that would actually be a funny poll for people. say, listen, of all the politicians you like who have been knocked out by their bizarre sexual behavior, who you would like to have back? >> i would say mark sanford. >> i want to get imogene in. eliot spitzer and mark, we're in

business. >> he can't be cast as that anymore. i'm wondering, have the tea party won the bottle but lost the war in the next election for republicans? obama is about getting the independent votes. one of them, the tea partiers. is he claiming that? >> i don't think electoral positioning is about getting the censors. about setting up the, what's appropriate for him debates in 2012. in other words, he doesn't want debt limit. he wants mediscare talks. wants to make sure he's debating -- >> did you just make up a word? >> i'm the one who makes up words. >> no. mediscare is one we use all the time on the right. >> that's good. >> it's frailing. not in the center. it's framing. >> did you hear that? just trying to lay a framing to ensure re-election? nothing to do with ideology? >> sadly, a political level that mediscare is problematic. either that super congress is

going to cut medicare or the trig sir going to get released and 2% of cuts will happen and every republican who doesn't vote for this bill right now and that's why boehner is having a problem with it. >> shwychers and the others. >> because every republican that doesn't vote will claim their democratic opponent voted to cut medicare. >> basically, to your point, want to make your point one more time? we are playing politics. not pursuing a prosperity agenda. we can do better and this show is the very small, tiny beginning of a portion of that. i'm grateful to have you here helping me. stick around. coming up, the boiling point. how do we translate being natural, unavoidable outrage around injustice in america that you see in the tea party and elsewhere? into real creative prosperous change for america? after this. e the best toffee in the world.

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we're back with republican strategist margaret hoover, author of "american individualism." yes, my friends, we are one gigantic crazy group of individuals, if you haven't noticed, in a new generation of conservatives she argues can save the republican party so much so she wrote a book asserting that fact and it's pleasure to welcome you into the conversation. thanks for having me. >> what is your point? >> the point is that a -- first of all, millennials are the largest generation in american history. 80 million, not voting republican. 17 million more than baby boomers, 27 million more than gen x and after three presidential election cycles voted for john kerry in '04, barack obama in '08. republicans don't get in the next 16 mosses they could lose this generation for the rest of their lives. >> got it. >> buy the book. read the book. ed candidate is -- characterized

in the generation and a road map how to connect the dots. in many ways, fiscal conservatives. make the case this party, republican party, is the one knocked on-ish delivering change when it comes to generational facts and the fiscal fup future of the next generation. that's the opportunity. they're there philosophically and some in places they're in the. social, they're not. over 50%, not only do they care less about sexual orientation they're in favor of sga marriage. this is where i am. sensibilities of my generation and this is the halfway point. >> a brilliant man representing the conservative movement in america. your thoughts? >> i think i'm of the same generation as you and gay marriage and abortion of two very different issues. >> absolutely agree. >> so -- >> what about the bigger issue -- >> feminism there, but feminism in much of the world used to

select out women. >> that's about -- what we here to the arab world -- >> where does abortion fit into your vision in future of the republican party? >> the majority of millennials believe abortion is morally wrong, morally unethical but don't believe 24 overturning roe v. wade. they believe it's bad but tonight think we should overturn the tables on row v. wade. the reality i wanted to make it so there's a diversity of views with that in the party. >> and bad on constitutional law? >> you stop. >> but this is -- >> you and i don't know -- >> hold on. this is what you will run into. basically, you have a strong political belief system that is incredibly visceral and very real on abortion, on gay marriage, on a lot of issues that are very important and very much defined inside of the

conservative identity and you're saying, loosen your grip a little bits on some of those and tighten your grip on issues that are fiscal conservative. am i understanding that? >> you're getting there. the question is, are we going to have a coalition? are we going to grow our coalition, grow the party or going to stay small? if we're going to win we have to go reagan's formula. ignite the conservative coalition. we have no northeastern republicans now. >> tell you something, you'll loses the electoral base. >> that's a -- >> hate to say that. >> when you refer to generational are you talking what's happening with the cuts in social security they're trying to perpetrate on us or what? >> listen, the generation -- >> what does that mean? >> you and i, why i assume we're the same age. >> we're all the same age. all going it live to 200. we're fine. >> and i'm sure as heck counting on it. because job performance, we're not going to get t. and-doctor.

>> one at a time. one at a time. >> society with the safety net or mot? if we do, change the system now. that is -- >> unless you're -- >> from my generation. >> don't know how to do math or read, the social security trust fund reports we'll get everything except for 22%. and if we do nothing. if we do nothing and -- >> i get it. but a bigger conversation that you're trying to start here. not that i don't think these things are significant, which is in order for the conservative agenda or republican party to maintain a big tent and have power, in your opinion, it must adopt some of this debate subpoena that -- >> coalition, reagan, 80% ally is not my 20% enemy. that's on the conservative side. frankly it reaches out to millennials and independents. you can't have a governing coalition without -- >> i have the hate mail from social conservatives.

>> you, too. >> i've been there. how do you change their minds? i've seen it. seen it in my in-box. it's scary. >> you are also getting a motivated part ever base. yes, i think it's possible. look at dick cheney to the left of barack obama on this issue. by the way, ken, former rnc chair. republicans made it happen in new york. not just republican votes on the senate floor. behind the scenes and republican money. there is absolutely a shift going on and time to did a -- >> there is no congressmen who are pro-choice and fiscally conservative. >> you think -- >> i would argue -- i have yet to find a fiscally conservative congressman who's fiscally conservative. >> ron paul. >> well done. >> i think -- playing a trivia game. a pleasure. a good conversation. thank you all. imogene, always a pleasure, tim thank you and congratulations on the book. i believe that you're starting a conversation that needs to be

had. and i'm happy to learn of your efforts. >> thank you. coming up here, weren't of america's oldest cold cases -- finally heating up. [ man ] they said i couldn't win a fight.

but i did. they said i couldn't fight above my weight class. but i did. they said i couldn't get elected to congress. but i did. ♪ sometimes when we touch ha ha! millions of hits! [ male announcer ] flick, stack, and move between active apps seamlessly. only on the new hp touchpad with webos. constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue...

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♪ because of you [echoing] we make a great pair. huh? progressive and the great outdoors. we make a great pair. right, totally. uh... that's what i was thinking. hmm. covering the things that make the outdoors great. now that's progressive. call or click today. all right. new tips finally heating up. a very cold but very famous fbi case. talking about the only unsolved hijacking case ever in the united states. a hero of sorts involving the infamous and famous d.b. cooper. in 1971, keeper held a northwest orient airlines flight hostage saying he had a bomb but no intention of killing anybody or doing anything. he simply required $200,000, which he was then given, at which point he parachuted from the back of the plane in rainy

weather never to be seen again. that's a good story. and it happened. authorities have since followed more than 1,000 leads to find mr. cooper and gotten nowhere. the fbi found some of the money. dollar bills, marked before given to him. found a clip on the tie he wore that day and even what they think was his parachute. but the skydiving scoundrel himself remained illusive. after years, a person who might have helpful information on the suspect, the fbi sent an unnamed object out for forensics, perhaps because at this point, the government's motivation to find the rest of that $200,000 is our last chance to raise revenue. forgive me for the last palestine. the re line. the rest is all true. why did wall industry react so badly, and after the show, check out our latest podcast. if you need to have -- to save

problems. deepak chopra on our collective responsibility for solving problems in a way that actually does it. know what i'm saying? that and much more. the newly revamped dylanratigan.com and find me at dylan ratigan on twitter and, of course, on facebook. see you back in just a second. so me and the boys earned a trip to dc twice as fast! oh hi! we get double miles every time we use our card. and since double miles add up fast... one more chariot please. ...we can bring the whole gang! i cannot tell a lie. he did it. right... it's hard to beat double miles! read my lips -- no new axes! [ male announcer ] get the venture card from capital one, and earn double miles on every purchase, every day. go to capitalone.com. what's in your wallet? so, you're a democrat right? after your dishcloth? bounty extra soft can help. in this lab test bounty extra soft leaves this surface three times cleaner than a dishcloth. super clean. super soft. bounty extra soft. in the pink pack.

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well, if you're still wondering whether the budget deal was worth anything let's look at the old financial markets and see what they thought.

they did surge out of the gate. optimistic relief there wasn't going to be armageddon, apocalypse and all that. then real data came out, manufactures index released showing at our loy lowest level of manufacturing in two years' time. not that it's been great the past two years. sliding back into recession. add to that grim gdp numbers last friday and stalled unemployment figures expected to be further confirmed on friday of this week. makes you ask yourself -- when it comes to american prosperity, is the political battle of ideas and mechanics getting us closer or farther away from it? joining us to discuss, editor business chief and friend, henry, nice to see you. >> great to be here. >> the numbers don't look good. >> they're horrible. the economy is weak. unemployment high. the manufactures, gdp bad, manufacturing bad, the side show, circus show we've had for

six months to do something that was a forgone con luciegone cont happening. >> that cutting spending will help prosperity. a perception if we can get the government to spend money that will boost prosperity. there's a perception that if i can manipulate the tax code -- i have no idea, quite honestly, but to you get the sense that anybody in our political leadership is actually making decisions being held to account whether what they do gets us closer to prosperity or farther away from it? >> no one is focusing on the real problem. which is that the united states spent 30 years building up a mountain of debt. we had borrowed prosperity both on the government and on the consumer side. we're now focusing on the government. that's good. i actually think it is good we got a deal -- >> had the debate, talk about it. learn about it. >> we have a long-term plan that you didn't come in suddenly bust

the 2012 budget that would have clobberrd the economy. it's good it's gradual. there is a long way to go, but everyone who's talking about a quick fix of cut government spending, the private sector the going to come roaring back is nuts. cutting government spending is actually going to shrink gdp no quick fix. it's a long workout process. >> think of msnbc as political channel. people watch for political information, this sort of thing. if somebody with a political interest in the democratic party, in the republican party, in the tea party, in bernie sanders independent, whatever it may be, wanted a way at home to judge the prosperity of their town, to judge the prosperity of their state or their country, and then use that to hold their politicians to account, what do you think are the best measures for an individual, somebody watching tv to, i want to know how we're doing? >> i late to say it.

being centrist. it's boring. nobody likes it. everybody likes taking extreme position. the tea party, we are not going to raise the debt ceiling. crazy. it's flying the plane into a mountain. that is not a reasonable position. what it's going to take is actually the sort of deal we just got, which is a step in the right direction. long term, it's going to just realistically take some tax increase. you have to have that. we don't have the revenue. so it is going to be a combination of both. so i would say to anyone at home, if someone is talking about some magical cure, where all you have to do is cut taxes and eliminate regulation and that's going to fix it, or jack up taxes, jack up spending. that's not going to fix it. the answer is somewhere in the middle. >> what metrics should he look at? how can i get a sense whether what my politician is doing is enhancing prosperity or harming it knowing that politicians do tricks like bill clinton and george bush have done and for that moatter barack obama where

they borrow money and spend it in the short term to create false prosperity or the objects of false prosperity during an electoral cycle to find out what they've actually done is create more debt and kick the can down the road? how do i tell the difference between real prosperity and real creation and production and fake prosperity invented by bankers and politicians to preserve their jobs? >> the answer is, it's extraordinarily difficult. but we've got to go with people focusing on the long term and have a reasonable plan to get there. if you're trying to make major, painful changes in your household finances, usually it's not an instant correction all the way through. maybe declare bankruptcy. the united states doesn't have that option and we shouldn't take that option. it's a long process to do it. >> when you're over a long process that's difficult to solve, don't you have to acknowledge that you don't know everything that's going to happen, you have to have a long-term goal and a short-term plan to try to work towards that goal and the humility to know

what is between you and that goal, the mission to the moon or prosperity, is a lot of things you don't know? >> right. the world humility is not available in washington, d.c. >> humility doesn't sell in the political theater. >> that's right. certainty sells. extremism sells. unfortunately, the answer's right there. >> in a detention based economy. you get attention, you get money. the easiest way to get attention, extremism. model is working perfectly. >> it is. >> not really-- >> fixing the countries. >> no. nice to see you. coming up on "hardball," white house budget director january lou. first keli goff with the "daily rant." prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. so lily and i are back on the road again. with zyrtec® i can love the air®. whose non-stop day starts with back pain... and a choice. take advil now and maybe up to four in a day. or choose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain.

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a little "daily rant" and keli goff here to offer it up. >> hey, dylan. people end up going into politics or media because they can't do math including yours truly. but over the last week or so my joke hasn't seemed like a laughing matter. in fact, last week on this show when both senator reid and speaker boehner's cuts didn't add up by the congress' budget office, dylan asked the question, are these two guys smarter than a fifth grader? much of the ceiling debate focused on the political positions, there appears to be one thing that helped americans agree on. we can all agree many of our elected officials know a lot less an finance and economics than those responsible for the financial future of an entire country should. more terrifying, many appear to know less about such matters than most of us to. i previously discussed on this very show hypocrisy of elected officials with their own financial woes lecturing the rest of us on fiscal responsibility.

as of this week add a few more names to the financial hypocrites hall of fame. representative joel walsh. became the new poster boy for fiscal irresponsibility when it was revealed he owes more than $100,000 in back child support. and texas representative blake, another advocate for the government tightening its belt and spending with its means reveals to have nearly six figures worth of credit card debt. the officials like walsh and others got me thinking that maybe we waste a lot of time asking candidates the wrong questions on the campaign trail. instead of asking, for instance, have you ever cheated on your spouse or smoked pot or their philosophical issues on balanced budgets, maybe ask for practical questions. like can you balance your own budget or checkbook? seriously. can you balance your checkbook? or how about this one. using only your current balance, interest rate and a calculator

as a reference, can you calculate how long it will take you to pay off your own credit card balance? or, how about asking them to plan a monthly budget and savings for a three-month emergency fund for their families on a base salary of $45,000, which is the average american median income? i noticed earlier i'm not exactly a math whiz myself. the difference between me and a member of congress is i'm not responsible for crafting financial policies that can affect millions of other people. so maybe instead of sending candidates to media training classes and fund-raising boot caverns, something both major political parties issue, we should send all candidates to mandatory accounting and economics classes. >> if you were to look, so, yes, first, obviously, when you're talking to me, when you look at actually how to effect that, when you realize it again, the economy rewards those who can get your attention, there's a reason kim kardashian has a lot

of money. attention is rewarded. production is not rewarded. intellectual not rewarded. getting people's attention is rewarded. politicals playing into that same system. extremism and manipulation to accumulate attention is where you are focused. any way to reconcile an economy that only values the ability to get the attention of other people with what you're talking about? >> the burden falls back on us. consumers, as voters. the snooki versus tony morrison conundrum you and i discussed here. snooki gets paid more because she allows it to happen. >> getting attention. and an economic model no longer values creation, production or intellectual property. in fact, it's considered worthless. the economic model only values the ability for any individual to acquire attention. >> because we allow it to. no one showed up for snooki, she wouldn't be a commodity. same athe policy. >> that's it. you should do a keli goff test for all of