>> i might take you up on that. >> a future "rant." pleasure to see you. have a wonderful week. keli goff. that does it for us. i a.m. dylan ratigan. thanks for spending time for us and "hardball" is up right now. unfair, unbalanced. let's play "hardball." good evening's i'm chris matthews. ed problem with aprong republicans democrats and the tea party, polygamy. it's not balanced it's not fair. first of all three parties in this thing. two parties to the right. republicans and tea party making demands on a president who in the end was negotiating for the center left. the result is what you'd expect. something well to the right of center. so we have a piece but at a price. the tea party setting the terms.

the republican party living with it. the democrats forced to live in a political household dominated by the other side. today the republicans have been preening. democrats bowing their heads and the house of representatives expected to vote sometime this evening. what about president obama? progressives are furious saying he gave away too much, got nothing in return. "new york times" columnist paul called it an an ject surrender on the part of the president. does the deal help with the ind dents the president needs for re-election, plus a bipartisan deal and there's bipartisan operation to it. democratic congressman emanuel cleburne of missouri calmed it a satan sandwich and conservative groups like the club for growth don't like it either. we'll hear from strange bed foley ohs from both left and right, united in opposition to this. and the sounds of silence. we haven't heard much about the deal. the debt deal from the republicans who want to be president. except, of course, michele bachmann who lates it, and why

are they keeping quiet and what's it say about their leadership? i fish tonight way big question. what steps the president could have taken to avoid this hostagetaking. we begin at the white house. director to the office of management budget, the president's budget director. mr. director, i have great respect for you, you know and i know you have the president's trust and the question that keeps bothering me now is was there another way to govern? was there an option play? way back in december. i want you to watch what the leader of the republican, the speaker of the house john boehner said today. here he is late this afternoon declaring victory. let's listen. >> the president asked for an increase in the debt ceiling, and i made clear at that time that there would be no increase in the debt ceiling without significant cuts of spending and changes to the way we spend the american people's money. and when you look at what we've been able to achieve, we've met those two standards that have been outlined.

the american citizens say it's time to deal with the spending problem and deal with the fact we made promises to the american people that our kids and grandkids just can't afford. in addition to that we've worked with our members and listened to the american people and have a real interest making sure that we don't give into this plot again. >> well, president obama sounded like he was almost conceding defeat tonight. let's listen to him. >> is this the deal i would have preferred? no. i believe that we could have made the tough choices required on entitlement reform and tax reform right now, rather than through a special congressional committee process. >> that was the president last night. jack, mr. director, the question i have, there is speaker of the house boehner bragging basically way back last december he said they were going to do this thing. hold the debt ceiling hostage to get their way. couldn't the president have said at that moment way back in

december of last year, no game plaining. no hostagetaking. no terrorizing this country. i'm not negotiating with you guy. could he have done it? you can't play it that way? >> chris, last december we did raise the issue of the debt limit and it was clear that there was not an ability to get it done last december. so it's not that there wasn't an attempt. and i think you and i worked together in the congress and it's not -- it was not yet a pressing issue for congress to deal with on either side. so i think that the question of dealing with it then versus now, i realize there's a lot of people going back and asking, but it wasn't there last december. and enormous amount of good, important work was done last december. let me speak to the piece you played at the beginning, because whathe president was saying, his disappointment, he was prepared right now to make serious cuts and compromises on entitlement reform and tax reform. he had a long negotiation with the speaker. they came close.

and we've seen speakers make the tough choices and drive them through the caucus. the speaker wasn't able to. it wasn't to be. we then had this problem. his caucus had held the debt limit hostage. they clearly were in a position where we were facing a default if there was no action. in that situation, the president drew very hard lines. one hard line was, we're not going to be keeping the american economy in limbo for the next 18 months. we need to deal with this, get it out of the way until 2013. we accomplished that. he made clear an actions we make have to be balanced and fair. discretionaries are distributed fairly between defense and non-defense. not at much in the comprehensive deal but it met a test of balance. in the long term a committee is formed charged with taking action. the president has been clear. long-term action on entitlement reform needs balanced with long trm policy on tax reform. we hope this committee can do

that. it's with the mandate of the committee and what the american people are looking for us to do. >> what we've discovered, mr. director, on two occasions, last december and now. the republican leadership going along with the tea party is able to hostagetake, to use the term we're both using here. they're able to use the hostage of the government crashing, the economy crashing to get their way. how can the american people figure next time around we won't be stuck again with bush's tax policies? we elected president obama, the american people, but are stuck with bush's economic policy because they keep hostagetaking to keep bush in power. president bush is still dicta dictating taxes in this knt because ftd tea party. >> be clear. last december a very important compromise was reached which without which we'd be seeing much higher unemployment, lower economic growth in this country. at the same time, the president said he was reluctantly extending the bush tax cuts for the upper end for two more years, but he wouldn't do it again. we're now going to face a number

of things coming together at the same time. the special committee, if it reports and finishes its work and gets its job done, we'll be fine. if it fails and the automatic spending cuts are scheduled to take effect, they take effect january 1, 2013, the same day the bush tax cuts expire. these issueless be joined and not a resolution, then there's no balance. >> you're not a politician, you're a policy guy. mr. li mr. lew, going to the commitment to end bush's tax policy? end the unfairness where the rich get away without paying their share? is he going to make that the campaign issue next year? >> it's president made clear from now through his presidency, that is something that will be an important issue he will drive forward. obviously, the campaign is going to be an important time for him to speak to the country. i don't see any reason why what he says as president will be different than what he says as a

candidate. he's been clear. tax cuts for the very wealthy will not be extended under his presidency. >> the problem is, if you put these in baseball terms, the first time they won was december last year. you said it had to be goernlgted "way. the bush tax cuts for people a who make over $250,000 is a year. >> now in the course of vicious negotiations where the president offered, as you point out, tremendous concessions on entitlements, very sense tib for democrats as we know, to make, and yet never -- not even in this case were the republicans talk or consider any kind of ending of the bush tax cuts. >> no, chris, i have to interrupt you. i'm sorry. >> i'm sorry. >> the president's negotiation with the speaker was predicated, based on entitlement reform along with decoupling. tax cuts for the very high end would not stay in effect in the context of the discussion. so i think what happened is, the speaker went back to his caucus and he couldn't sell that. i know. >> so tax reform will lower everyone's rates.

we should be able to get beyond the debate about bush tax policies broadening debates, tax fairness so wetty are paying they're fair share and everyone else not paying an unfair amount. that's what everyone wants. the thing about december important to remember today is the president got a special tax cut for working americans, relief from the pay role tax, put $120 billion into our economy, $1,000 in the average worker's paycheck. an important piece of what's keeping this economy going right now. that was important. it was important at that time and the president would like to have a debate this year to continue it. >> okay. thank you very much for coming on "hardball." budget director january lew. thanks for coming on. howard, the huffington post media director and msnbc honcho. how are you? howard, you heard the argument. two strikes now. talking about our friend jack, a great public servant. defending a situation where the liberals, progressives saying, wait a minute. he struck out last december.

this was a time, and he did try i know jack made the point, he did try, to get the deal with that tax cuts for the people above $250,000 a year having to pay their share and aren't going to do it now. how can we trust it will happen a third time around at the end of this year? >> you can't. that's why the democrats were upset. about nine days ago, chris, jack, as you say, widely respected around the city, went to a closed door meeting of the senate democratic caucus. he's a really nice guy. they lit into him like you wouldn't believe, i am told. yelling at him. members of the senate. democrats in the senate yelling at jack lew because he was the nearest person to yell at, and they're complaint was, number one, what the president should have done, when faced with the tea party, spell out a plan to work with democrats on a plan that they could agree on that they would then take public, and so that the president rather than just telling people to jam

the congressional switchboard, could have been lobbying publicly the way ronald reagan used to do on behalf of a specific plan. that was their beaef with the president and jack le wuchlt, number one. two, he hadn't consulted with them. the president underestimated and didn't understand the tea party, otherwise he wouldn't have spent all of that time with john boehner. >> am i trite say the tea party, although they claim to be populist's in some places they are, grass roots. they basically accomplished one rule. kept george bush in office. took us into the hell, to awe vive the crisis on wall street. now his policies carried on because the tea party insists on it. and they're getting their way. >> right. and i think that's absolutely right, and so what the president was talking to speaker boehner about was support for a sweeping form of tax reform that wouldn't necessarily raise the rates, but that would close so many

loopholes it would gain nor revenue and be more fair. as, as a matter of fact, something that the tea party people were interested in. so the president actually might have been able to gain a little bit of traction. i don't think this is completely naive. a little traction, had he put his on plan in detail out there, allowed it to be scored have it about real plan. he wasn't selling anything here in speck, which is one reason why he ended up having no power in this power play by the tea party. >> okay. back to something you and i study all the time. authority. now power. not like a guy that gives orders. the president doesn't give orders. it's the successful use of authority that isn't written down in the constitution. the ability to find a with to use the constitution to get things done that you think the american people need to get done. has this president been novel? has he been original? in his use of the power of the presidency to get his way? or is he simple buckling? >> well, it's neither. he hasn't -- he certainly hasn't

been novel in outside the box in his thinking. his presidential campaign was unbelievably creative and focused an novel. his presidency has not been any of those things. barack obama didn't buckle either. what he does is find the middle of the room, chris. he's very, very good at finding the middle of the room. it's how he got elected president of the harvard law evoo, by reaching out to conservatives and offering them space in the publication. it's what he did right here. he found what he regarded as the middle, but the problem is, that mathematical middle he found isn't going to do anything for the economy. i talked to a lot of economists today of all stripes. they don't think that this deal that we have heere is going to the average person, going help the average small business, is going to do anything about unemployment or anything to goose the gdp, as a matter of fact, probably just the opposite. so the mathematical calculation was maybe correct. you could argue.

but certainly not the one in reality outside the beltway. >> thank you, howard. the thing i worry about is, say it as a last word. i worry about the fact what this country really -- this sounds radical, a jobs program. put 1 million people to work, men and women right now. give them real things to do get them working, they'll spend money. consumerism goes up. confidence goes up. this vicious cycle is killing us. thanks for coming on. the budget fight and the deal in the works. we'll see ifcarries. the debate is expected to last an hour. the vote schedule ed immediatel after the debate but sometime early this evening. keep watching msnbc. what does this deal mean for president obama? it means a lot. good open question. we'll try to keep it open as long as we can. it's not coming out good for him and how does it help or hurt his re-election and this country's positioning for recovery?

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want. and that's why i think so many of us are hearing from our constituents. a lot on the far right and a lot on just told you the debate in the house has begun. we've gotten word from our nbc news team, the find vote between 6:45 and 7:30 eastern. we'll be right back. my students are amazing. but to be there for them, you've gotta feel your best. kids can tell. that's why i love eating activia every day. so delicious activia helps me feel good inside. which helps me be my best... positive, cheerful and on top of things. help regulate your digestive system. love how you feel or your money back. ♪ activia

welcome back to "hardball." president obama got a deal to raise the debt ceiling but at what cost to his presidency and to the democrats? manien on the left wonder if he got roll and this baby. here to talk more, cynthia from the atlanta journal-constitution and from the new republican, john. thank you for joining us. thank you, cynthia, as always. you're smiling, guys, i don't know why. here's congresswoman maxine waters, who's not smiling in the house this ank. let's listen to her. she's from los angeles. >> mr. speaker, i can honestly say if this bill passes, it may

be the single worst piece of public policy to ever come out of this institution. i cannot support this bill. this rule. and i urge my democratic colleagues not to be com police knit a republican plan to eventually cut medicare, social security, medicaid and investment in our future. all while asking the rich to sacrifice nothing. >> huh. you know, john, that reminds me working on the hill. her speechwriter, further left more angry than she is subpoena that is. i sympathize. will this have the president to face a challenge in the next election? like jimmy carter in '79? so mad about this deal, like malaise? >> i don't think so. the deal's not that bad. i think obama made a big mistake getting himself into a situation where he's paying a ran stock market avoid catastrophe. >> falk about that. stay on that. why did he let this develop six

months and eight moss, since last december, this drum roll of the republicans saying we've got the baby. you don't get the baby back unless you pay us. why do you let the other side have the baby? if you can use kidnapping terms? >> i agree. makes no sense. their logical all along, we have to do what they're demanding. we'll just give in. look, this is politics. this isn't, like, terrorists can do this. it will look awful if you don't give us your way. in a democracy you shouldn't be able to say we're going to blow up the men economy. the voters should say we won't vote for you then. force them to stop. i agree. he never should have been in a ransom situation. like i said, once in has situation, jo think the ransom he's paying is really all that bad. it's not what maxine waters is saying. they blundered totally to get in this situation. >> the policy and politics here, your view, cynthia? >> john is right about the

policy. it's not that bad. i think the politics are terrible. i think in part because the president fuddly misundersta fu misunderstand stood the republican representative. he wouldn't have spent all that time with boehner if he better understood what was going on in the house. playing golf with john boehner is not getting you anywhere because he doesn't control that group. the tea party-driven caucus was never going to agree to anything reasonable. so negotiating and negotiating and negotiating didn't matter. in the beginning the president should have drawn a line in the sand. he should have said i want a clean debt ceiling bill and go no further. >> let me go back to the option plate. i'm always interested when i get critics on the show. you're critics. i'm a critic, too, most of the time. it's one thing to say he didn't win. you have to? yourself, what place, what actions could he have taken?

we talked, shoved it back at these guys and say you're a bunch of crazy people. you're fougnot going to blow do the government. agree in december, i'm the president of the united states i got to pay the bills. don't talk about it anymore. that's the end of conversation. what about the 14th amendment? could he have done that? jonathan, said, look, in the end pass all the stuff you want. debt ceilings or not i'm paying the bills. could he have done that? and let the supreme court challenge him. that's one way to get reeleshgtsed. be the guy that paid the bills when the other side was putzing around. just a thought. >> that's a deal that didn't come together -- >> he had jay carney come out and say it wasn't in his back pocket. was that a mistake? >> maybe it was a mistake. on the other hand, if he does that, boehner said, great. i don't have to sign ap debt ceiling and go in front of my caucus and lose my job.

that can work both ways. >> chris, he could have kept it alive as an option at least. executed that, no, i don't. but there is a problem when you are going to present yourself as the reasonable guy in the room who is going to -- not going to allow the government to default. then you have no negotiating power with this group of irresponsible extremists. the president needed to be a better poker player. he needed to act as though he were -- he was going to consider the 14th amendment option at least, but he didn't. he took it off the table almost immediately. >> how is this behavior by the right any different to the bully in the classroom going up to the kid who got the good lunch and says, give me your lunch or i'll beat you up? >> it isn't any different. >> how is that any different? >> it isn't any different. and you're talking to a kid who got tortured on the playground a lot, chris, they keep coming off, and keep coming after you, and keep coming after you until you stand up one day and say, no

more. >> i did that once. i got him behind the neck and choked him to death, frankly. i did win the fight. he stopped giving me trouble. anyway, thank you, jonathan and cindy. giving away our secrets. up next, republicans are quick to vouch for president obama for wanting to raise the debt ceiling but one of their biggest idols to raised it the most. wait until you hear the stats on ronald reagan. you won't believe history here. you're watching "hardball" om on msnbc. anybody home?

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back to "hardball" now for the "sideshow." first up, speaker john boehner got a phone call as he left the capitol. it wasn't the person on the other end of the call raising eyebrow, it was the speaker's ring tone selection. let's hear it.

[ quacking ] >> hello? >> i guess he doesn't say much about people's calling. that was a quack quack on the ring tone. next up, tim pawlenty may be having a hard time getting his campaign pup's pushing steam to his campaign overall. hockey. an ad comparing his underdog status to the shocking victory of the 1980 united states olympic team whose win became known as the miracle on ice. oh offered personalized plent e! for president hockey jerseys to anyone who made a donation of $100 or more to his campaign. is he running for president? i ask? or prime minister of canada? up next, on sunday afternoon the senate voted 50-49. not enough votes, to block the reid plan for raising the debt ceiling. one senator asked for that vote. who was it? james imhof of oklahoma.

the reason he was absent, rrnlgts s.v.ed, complete with airplane exhibitions and hoare flight-related attractions pap strange one. isn't he? now the big number. the current debt ceiling agreement passes as expected tonight and the tomorrow, president obama will have raised the national debt ceiling by 47.5% in his first term. think that seems high? well, not if you compare it to the largest percentage increase in our country's history. get this -- it was ronald reagan who raised it the most. just how much did the debt ceiling increase between 1981 and 1989? s 199.5%. more than double what is currently on the table for obama. more than double. that's tonight's big number. wow. didn't know that. very bipartisan. a progressive, liberal member of

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good afternoon, everybody. i'm brad goode with your cnbc market wrap. stocks ending slightly lower after a grueling climb from deep in the red. dow jones industrial down ten points. s&p shedding 5 and nasdaq giving up 11 points. quite the roller coaster today with the dow swinging to a triple digit gain to a triple digit loss finally clawing back to break even territory but it wasn't entirely about what's going on in washington. also dismal report on u.s. manufacturing slowing way more than expected in july. new orders, prices paid and the sectors employment index all dramatically lower next month. in stocks, health care taking a

hit on concerns the debt ceiling will lead to cuts in medicare and overall federal health prap programs. and announcing massive job cuts in hsbc. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." that was the chairman of the congressional -- wait a minute. no. i guess the chairman of the congressional -- help me out here. i can't hear steny. i can't hear a word. cuts. >> about to speak here. there's anger on the left and the right when it comes to this compromise. you'll hear from the tea party

in a moment. we start with the man you just saw or are about sow see it. thank you so much for coming on. you're sort of our spokesperson for the progressive left, i guess we'd have to say here, who aren't happy with this deal. what is the general view from the progressive side of things on this deal coming up? >> well, everybody believes that it is a bad deal. even individuals who are supporting it and frankly we don't know exactly what we're going to do, but everybody considers it a bad deal. no question about it. and we shouldn't even be here. to have the debt ceiling connected to deficit reduction is amazing. it's been something like an immaculate connection that two things that have no business coming together, have never been together in history merged at this particular time is devastating. so the consequences of voting no may be more dire than voting yes.

>> do you think the president of the united states had a problem here, that you don't have? he voted against a debt creel wlg ceiling when he was senator. he used it for political purposes himg as a senator. wouldn't it be hypocriteic toll say the republicans can't do it? >> no. i think everybody ought to do what they have to do politically that doesn't hurt the nation. so right now we're in a situation where, you know, the republicans ought to own this. they ought to take the vote and i think we ought to watch them take the vote, but make no mistake, the debt ceiling will be raised. there's no question about it. >> how will it happen -- suppose everybody in the democratic caucus votes wait do you tonight and they don't vote for it. the republicans won't get 216? >> no. the republicans won't get 216 or 218 and some of us can always be counted and to do the right thing will do so. some can be counted on. some can be counted out, and i'm not going to allow the debt ceiling not to be lifted, even

if i want to make a statement. i will subdue my own personal political statement for the best interests of the nation. >> what would you do if your vote was decisive tonight, sir? if he they need toud get to 218, would you give them the vote? give the leadership the vote? >> yes i would do it and ge home and punch myself in the stomach, and then throw up. but -- but, you know, we've got to do the best thing for the nation, and -- and the nation is right now in some kind of economic purgatory, and -- >> okay -- let's talk progressive politic. i think i agree with you on this. once we're past this fight and democrats certainly didn't win this fight. >> we didn't. >> how do you come back with new jobs? a deal where we have unemployment stuck at above 9%. corporations are nots hiring

people. seems to me the new gaming corporations, how much money can you make without hiring anybody? they're not doing it the usual way. gains not to hire people. when is the government going to step in and have people hypergood people that do good things? how do you do that with a moderate administration and a republican house? how did you get a jobs bill throughout before the election or even now, if can you do it. >> members of the congressional cakes, for example, introduced 42 sdif pieces of legislation dealing with job creation. now, there's one thing that democrats and republicans agree on, and that is a transportation bill. maybe an infrastructure bank. and it creates jobs. i think the senate ought to start the process, because we don't know what's going to take place in the house, because of the tea party is in charge, but that's a job creator, and i think every kind of power that can be mustered in the senate should be put forward and supporting the white house.

we've got to create jobs or it's going to be devastating for the people around this country and frankly, devastating for the administration. >> thanks for coming on. congressman cleaver. and matt, thanks for coming on tonight. i think you guys -- didn't you win? i heard speaker boehner act like he won. he said, we've got spending cuts equal to the debt ceiling. no tax increases. what didn't you win on here? >> well, we didn't get a real spending cut, and what we're really looking for is something that gets to a ball,ed budget. something that satisfies markets. something that actually a real. this is a political band-aid. it actually cuts less than one-half of 1% of the total federal budget in 2012. that's not enough to satisfy markets. i don't think that's enough to get the burden of red ink off -- off the businesses that need to create jobs. >> so you want member of

congress to kill the bill? kill the debt ceiling bill tonight? >> yeah. i would vote against it. >> no. you're being political here. do you want them to bring it down tonight? defeat it? >> yes. they should defeat it because i think on august 3rd, question do a much better job. we can actually put real spending cuts on the table. >> so you think it's better to go into august a couple days, a couple weeks? how long would you fight this, would you deal wig the debt ceiling issue and the default problem? how long would you fight this? >> it's always true that washington won't do the right thing until you take everything else off the table. that's what we're trying to do. on august 3rd get both democrats and republicans to get serious about that. you have $200 billion coming into the federal treasury, even when they can't borrow money. that means we have money to pay the debt. we have the money to pay medicare and social security. put something on the table. >> don't be political or cute. you haven't been cute before. would you not pass a debt ceiling increase well into

august? would you keep this fight going two or three weeks, if you had to, and not raise the debt ceiling, and risk default? would you do that if you were in congress? >> i don't -- i think you have two or three weeks before you do risk default. i've always said we have to increase the debt ceiling but also get a handle on the debt, because there's real factors. >> we know all that. how many days would you go without deal wig the debt ceiling increase and risk default? how long would you keep the fight up, if were you running in congress, as tea party boss? >> i think we have more than three or four weeks. something like that. >> you would go that full distance? >> to get something real done? absolutely. >> you wait and see -- when would you know time had run out? when would you know you couldn't keep pushing for more debt reduction? >> when we don't have enough to pay the debt. >> how would you know that? >> how would you know that?

that's what treasury would tell us. >> oh. and you think they've been lying to you? >> no. they're not saying that we would default on august 2nd. they're saying that we don't have enough money to pay all of our bills starting august 3rd. that doesn't mean we don't have the money to pay the debt servicing. >> you mean, the united states would not pay bills it ode starting tomorrow and that wouldn't be a problem for our credit? >> you're talking about a partial government shutdown. >> this is where -- if you don't pay your bills as person, or a company, you're in default. you're not paying your bills. how can the united states government be as good as its dollar, be credible in the world financially if we don't pay our bills? you say, just pay the interest moop says you can just pay the interest and not pay your bill? not pay the soldiers, not pay the social security check, medicare, pensions for retirees and for the military? who says you cannot pay those bills? the people themselves wants the money.

>> we would have $200 billion to allocate amongst various demands that the government has. all we're saying is that the government la to balance its bmp and make the touch decisions just like families do. >> i know, but -- >> you can't go out and borrow new money as a family. you have to make tough decisions. >> you're not answering my question. if you have adue. you don't say i'll pay a portion of it. if it's due, it's due. you can't cut out other parts of your bill. people ge to the mail today. they come home from work and the mail's sitting in front of them. in the mail for most people, matt, you included, me included, there are bills. you say, take out the bills you want to pay and don't pay the other. you say the federal government should appropriate like that, that would be a joke. we would not be able to get credit. >> i'm not saying that. >> you are saying that. you said just pay the interests. don't pay the bills. you think that's credible for the world? you they wouldn't be default?

>> i don't think that's default at all. >> oh, you don't? >> that's the government forced to make decisions every family has to make. >> well, when it's broke. goes through bankruptcy. this is the problem with your argument. an ideology that makes sense. the trouble when it comes to running the united states government, you don't september the fiduciary parts to be part of the united states government. basically still carrying placards and standing outside of the capitol yelling but not willing to come inside the building and help run the government which means paying the bills because you don't accept that responsibility, do you? to pay the jobs chbts it's not our job to cut the deal. it's our job -- >> thank you. you've a mitted it. the tea party found its way inside the government and guys on the hill getting paychecks who won't pay the bills of the united states government. how about the congress people on the tea party crowd, don't take the money for their staff. don't take the medical, the travel. don't take any of that money but

they take every red cent. and then say i'm not responsible. i'm just a tea party guy or woman. i'm wearing a placard, just parching my placard. matt, you're in the right job. not in the united states government. that's where you don't belong. thank you for being honest and saying you don't belong there. but you have colleagues in there who don't accept the responsibility to pay their bills. thanks for coming on. why have we heard so little from republicans supposedly running the country? they don't really want the responsibility, do they? mitt romney waited 12 hours before making a statement. boy, there's mr. excitement. is it smart politics to stay so quiet, to stay oust arena? this is hrd hshd only on msnbc. [ p.a. announcer ] announcing america's favorite cereal is now honey nut cheerios! yup, america's favorite. so we're celebrating the honey sweetness,

crunchy oats and... hey! don't forget me!! honey nut cheerios. make it your favorite too! [ coughing continues ] [ gasping ] [ elevator bell dings, coughing continues ] [ female announcer ] congress can't ignore the facts: more air pollution means more childhood asthma attacks. [ coughing continues ] log on to lungusa.org and tell washington: don't weaken the clean air act. house democratic whip steny hoyer talk toing about the debt deal. >> we need to vote not as republicans or democrats but as americans. americans concerned about the

fiscal posture of their country. concerned about the confidence that people around the world have in the american dollar, which is, after all, the standard of the world. that is what i think this vote is about. >> and when that's over, expecting a vote in about an hour and a half from now. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of people are choosing advil. my name is lacey calvert and i'm a yoga instructor. if i have any soreness, i'm not going to be able to do my job. but once i take advil, i'm able to finish out strong. it really works! [ laughs ] [ male announcer ] make the switch. take action. take advil.

dr. scholl's custom fit orthotic center recommends the custom-fit orthotic that's best for your tired feet. foot-care scientists are behind it. you'll get all-day relief. for your tired achy feet. for locations, see drscholls.com. thank you... we're back. frankly every politician in the country is stalking about the debt deal. the host debate in the country. stakes couldn't be higher. so where are the republicans running for president? joining me, msnbc contributor, look at this picture.

most of the front-runners not support ib of the deal struck over the weekend. romney, bachmann, pawlenty, huntsman, perry. only one huntsman is for the bill. the bulk of the republican party from center to the right, all to the right, are against it. >> huntsman is for this because his whole mo in this race is as a guy who's going to put leadership above partisanship, a guy who will do things differently. i think that's a message not terribly well suited to the republican primary electorate. but that's where he is going. he was also for the boehner bill when no other 2012ers came out for it. why no comment or opposition from everybody else? there's little value if another, political value, if a mitt

romney, tim pawlenty getting involved. number one, it associates you in washington. that's a bad thing in caucus and politics. and you have no ability to shape the deal. mitt romney doesn't have the ability to say we should have this and should have this. why sign off on a deal, their strategy of thinking, that we have no influence over. they are going to say i oppose it. mitt romney opposed it, tim pawlenty opposed it, and they are going to try to talk about the economy and jobs again. >> has anybody come to the white house riding the quiet car? i am dead serious. he is sitting in the quiet car, romney. tom due ee lost the election in '48 riding the quiet car, ed musky one of my heros getting defeated in '72 riding the quiet car. taking the careful, silent route to the presidency when you have a little lead is a sure way to lose. >> and also by the way, it is bad strategy to say the way you

frame this debate as a presidential candidate is to comment on whatever amalgam of deals comes out of washington. that's not what you do. what you do, you make it bigger. you say this is the defining debate of this election, the size and role of government, the national debt, and you say these are the tough choices we have to make. you blow it up into something much bigger and more sentimental. we will be having the same debate in september, november, all the way through with bush tax cuts. this is the issue. you don't just speak up on this, you speak up with all of it. >> following this, bachmann can climb that mountain, she's philosophical. but how does a romney with no philosophical content rise to olympian level that speaks town on this discussion with a grand statement. he doesn't seem to have a grand statement to offer. >> chris, i think what you're getting at is michele bachmann

has the benefit, some would say it is a bad thing for her, but has the benefit as relates to a republican primary of being absolutely pure. in her ads she ran in iowa said i am not voting for debt ceiling under any circumstances. the establishment of republican party, the establishment, not tea party wing, the establishment privately sees it as an irresponsible position. they don't want a nominee who takes that position. so romney is caught in between. if you look at his public statements, it will take you about 15 seconds, he didn't make a lot of public statements. he largely avoided it, did events about obama and jobs and the economy, but really didn't talk about this because he doesn't want to talk about it, because he knows he is caught between the establishment of the party and tea party wing. what we know from the 2010 election, that tea party wing of the party has lots and lots of power, particularly in a small turnout affair. we expect places like iowa,

south carolina to be next year. >> let me ask, rick perry seems to me is getting a lot of hype out of texas, a job creator, big executive there, has all the cowboy stuff going for him. i wonder if he'll be like one of the boxers that went in the ring and just don't have it when they get there. is there a nothing burger coming at us from that guy? get the feeling there might be, but i don't know. to be fair, i don't get him. what do you think? he is not saying anything about this. >> look, texas politics is a contact sport. i think he can mix it up, if he can pass through the vetting that all of these guys will have to survive, if he could ride the wave, which is short here, i think he can make it. >> i don't know. >> chris, can i say one thing? >> i have to get going. thank you for joining us. i'm sorry. when we return, let me finish with what action the president could have taken in this debt ceiling fight and didn't. let's talk options here that

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let me finish tonight with what i've been looking for the entire show, options. is there not a way to lead the country than to listen to the other side's demands and try to meet them? is there another way of buckling to the republicans or letting the government crash? how does a president like obama command authority that doesn't

come from obvious levers of power. how does he move the country so his rivals have to buckle. how does he use the presidency, basic patriotism of the people to thwart those that want to destroy to get their way. how does he find the authority that comes from being the country's leader to push back on, push down on if necessary, those that don't agree with him, do not wish him success or wish him well. it is a basic question but it is important to get an answer to. is there something missing in this whole thing, some stretch of executive power, some leadership capacity that he just simply failed to exploit? i am willing to leave that question open now, but the country is going to render a verdict on what happened this past couple weeks and months and hours and what didn't happen. what leadership could have been employed by the president to match the devious, willful powers against him because there was clearly a reality here that won't be forgotten regardless