celebrate her recovery. thank very much for watching. dylan is here ready to take us forward. what's on the agenda? >> for the last and final time, mr. bashir, in fact, we'll sign a pledge to validate the statements that i'm about to make. we will for the last time lead with the debt ceiling and the signing ceremony will proceed shortly thereafter. let us begin. good afternoon to you. today the big story -- spent. i am dylan ratigan. president obama sirened the debt deal into law immediately authorizing our ability to action widely available financing to the u.s. government from the banking system with an additional $400 billion in treasury borrowing to pay our bills over the next few months.

that, of course, just hours before the oh, so dramatic default deadline that was such a political event. this may stave off a credit default. and we certainly have available financing. but haven't we already defaulted when it comes to jobs and the promise of american prosperity and working together towards shared values, toward a common goal with integrity and respect? our friend senator tom coburn put it best this morning. >> i think the politicians won and america lost, is what i think. it was great theater. in the long run, the country lost. >> i couldn't agree with the man more and we've been talking about the debt ceiling, of course, since april. on this show and pretty much every other show in the media. in fact, in many ways, forced to lead our show with these political pro wrestling shenanigans with the threat of a hostage crisis that could bring our country to the brink. we covered it every single day. i do, however, now want to take a moment and make a grove grover

norquistesque pledge to you, my loyal viewers. i, dylan j. ratigan, pledge for the rest of the week to bring you something other than talk of the debt and political pro wrestling. as you can see, i even signed it, although that quite looks like a robo signing to me. we'll go with it. first, let us get through today. shall we? one last time. luke russert is camped out on capitol hill. will you sign the ratigan pledge, luke? >> reporter: oh, yes, yes. willfully, happily, yes, immediately. dylan, for the last time, at least until 2013, if it will come back up again, congress reach add deal today to extend the nation's debt limit. vote 74-26 in the united states senator. quite expected as it passed the house last night. what exactly will occur next what president obama zed he would like to see. >> when congress gets back from

recess i will urge them to immediately take some steps, bipartisan common sense steps, that will make a difference. and will create a climate where businesses can hire, where folks have more money in their pockets to spend, where people who are out of work can find good jobs. >> reporter: so, dylan, what exactly can president obama do with this congress? well, a few things they could find common ground, free trade asgreemts with south korea and colombia and panama. it's unclear -- >> hang on. hold on. hang on. are you referencing the free trade deals? >> reporter: i am referencing the free trade deals. >> luke, talk about it. the panama deal is nothing but a bank secrecy haven. that's basically what that panama deal is. the south korea deal is a way to hire north korean slaves to make south korean products so we can then refund the north korean government after we gave them sanctions. i think i call that the let's

give then a nuke anyway plan. what are we talking about? i'm giving you a hard time. >> reporter: no. it's -- you threw me off my game a little bit. >> tell me the truth. tell me the truth, luke. tell me the truth. when they discussed the south korean free trade agreement do they refer to it around congress, as, hey, let's give north korea a nuke anyway plan? >> reporter: no. they say it's a job creator. >> for who? for northern korea? >> reporter: the united states. crack thousands and thousands of jobs. >> how? >> reporter: acquires free trade. free trade, take the tariffs away and people will build things here. >> and if i'm exploiting, basically, the ability to access a rigged chinese currency market and north korean slave labor -- seems interesting. the colombia -- the colombian deal is my favorite. a big job creator. do a deal with the only country

in the world that openly murders all labor organizers to ensure they will never ask for a raise, ever? >> reporter: colombia, though, in all fairness, dylan, colombia had a massive stride in improvement in terms of security. >> on the drug side. i'm saying the murder rate of union organizers in colombia on a per capita basis. >> reporter: opposition in the house, they have to figure that tech in a kaltdy there. >> i signed a pledge. debt ceiling for the last time, broken the pledge to talk about trade with you and i want to ge back to my pledge and do the debt ceiling one last time. >> reporter: always a pleasure to be on with you. >> great to have you. get you a copy of that pledge. you can sign it. >> reporter: can't wait. do it on air. signing ceremony. >> you can robo sign it. to the debt conversation with go. democrat bill nelson of florida serves on the senate budget and finance committees voted in support of this agreement. senator nelson, do you agree the

politicians got some kind of a victory here but the american people did not? >> dylan, say that again. i couldn't hear you. >> sorry. do you agree with senator coburn's comment, it gave something for the politicians to go home to constituents to take cuts, a little something to the president allowing limb to kick the can to 2013 but ultimately it was a loser for the american people and a modest win for the politicians? >> may i characterize if how i'd like to? >> yeah. my question, do you agree with that characterization and what is it? >> let me just say, if you gave your own foley oh reporter luke judge a hard time, i wonder what in the world you're going to do to me? >> i love you, senator. ing in i can say to you that you can't handle. what do you think? >> i think this was obviously the right thing to do. i mean, we were staring default in the face. you notice how the votes turned out. those that would be more of the

liberal left voted against it, and those that were more to the right side of the political spectrum voted against it, and most of us in between voted for it, because we had to get a deal. i do -- i am fairly optimistic about the future of this. the super committee, if it will do its work, and all they need is one republican to vote with six democrats, you could have a major tax reform by taking away a lot of the tax preferences that are $14 trillion, by the way, dylan, over ten years. take just 10%. 15% of those. and pour it over into the simplification of the tax code, and you could basically lower everybody's rate as well. >> that sounds encouraging. in fact, there's a political theory in the analysis you offer

up in terms of the impact on future taxation that suggests that this deal sets the table to allow the bush tax cuts to expire in 2013, maybe through the vehicle you were just describing, and also because the trigger cuts are actually smaller than the budgetary cuts that you could allow the trigger cuts to go into place and allow the bush tax cuts to go into place, and use this as setup towards the path code towards tax reform. am i understanding that correctly? >> well, that's one theory. yes. and obama clearly will have the advantage, because the bush tax cuts are going to expire come january 1, 2013. and you would have to override his veto with a two-thirds vote. so that's unlikely. so he will be in the driver's seat with regard to new tax revenues, but my hope is that everybody realizing that and

understanding the severity of the trigger, this sequestration, that they will, then, choose to utilize the super committee, these 12 people, and all you need is a 7-5 vote to do some serious tax reform, and tax reform would be like the bowles simpson committee came out. take a lot of the tax loopholes that don't do anything to encourage productive pi. they're just special interest tax preferences, and wipe them out, and utilize that revenue, then, to reform the tax code by simplifying it into thrbracketsd then you could lower everybody's tax rate in those brackets. >> you're sicki isinging my sone could be so lucky, simplify and

clean up the mess that is the swiss cheese of the tax code and go down that road. i would consider that to be a move closer to american prosperity and production. when you look at the mechanism of the problem solving that was just displayed by the american legislator and for a that matter the media and all the rest of it, specifically the legislator, the latest poll i know polls are polls. a cnn poll says 77% say washington behaved like spoiled children over the course of this debate. 17% calmed their actions those of responsible adults. have we lost the values of problem solving that basically respect a certain set of values of integrity, interests, choice. have we abandoned those issues, and is that why we're watching this race of ideas with no direction? >> that's well said, dylan. we've entered a new era. an era where people don't respect the other fella's point

of view, and when you get to that point, that people get so hardened in their positions, that they won't listen so that people can come together and build con sepssensus, then that new, very troubling era of politics. now, there are times in the past in our history, certainly the civil war was weren't of these times. another time was the civil rights era, where people wanted to talk past each other instead are talking to each other. and we've seen an element of that talking past each other this time, but let's hope that now that we're over this sword of demeclese over our heads and we now have a mechanism going forward to really do something in reform of the system, let's hope we can do it. >> do you believe that as we

have the opportunity to make that turn collectively, not just you as a senator or the other senators or the governors, or the media, but everybody in this country collectively, can we make the turn towards a shared prosperity agenda and then use our problem-solving values to get there? >> i certainly hope so. i have often wondered, are we as a poom getting so caught up in ourselv ourselves -- a people, getting so caught up in ourselves, in our own special interests has we forget what we were taught in college. the common wheel. the common good. and i hope -- i hope we're going to grasp that again. >> i tend to be confident, senator that we will, just because i believe the punishment for failure to adhere to that sort of value over time becomes rather severe. >> i hope so. >> senator, thank you for helping me see a pathway towards

healthy tax reform through a deal that didn't look like much to me. i do appreciate that and i hope you have a good afternoon. >> and the same to you, dylan. thanks. >> thank you. listen, luke can take it, senator, he's used to it and enjoys it. senator bill nelson, democrat out of florida, as we take a moment -- he can take 2. ask him. luke, he loves it. you kidding me? we sign pledges together all the time. ahead this hour, live long and prosper. meet a shining example of ideas and investment. exactly the sort of values we need to return america to its own greatness, but first, it works! but is it fair? a controversial but proven screening program coming to one of our nation's busiest airports. is it a better plan for airport security? plus, speaking of controversy. should we start taxing junk food while subsidizing vegetables? [ groans ] [ marge ] psst.

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enough talk about the debt. we have to talk about jobs. jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. you cannot say it enough. >> so the rhetoric's starting to make the turn after, i don't know, three years of massive job losses. why didn't congress start with jobs as the foundation for a long-term debt solution? prosperi prosperity, after all, relieves -- debt. how can we move as a nation towards that prosperity if 14 million of us are out of work, not helping us solve our

problems, and countless millions of more are under employed? the answer, it's very difficult to do that. let's bring in our mega panel. karen finney, republican strategist susan del percio and washington insider jimmy williams. both msnbc contributors. we like to refer to them as susan, karen and jimmy. can they make the turn, james, towards prosperity? we're hearing it from nancy pelosi, hearing it from republican quarters. hearing it from democratic quarters, and yet there has been an avoidance of this very conversation going back to the financial crisis, which created $6 trillion of the $8 trillion disht debt in the first place through job loss, housing loss and entitlement expense. >> 75% of the people don't think congress can do its job, but they just did it. one may not like the outcome, but they did the job. >> i would disagree in that if there job is trade power games,

if it's towards prosperity and shared prosperity and shared creativity and shared future, how does doing what they're doing help us in that direction? >> we didn't default, did we? >> that's like me taking you into the bathroom and saying i didn't jam your head in the toilet. did i? >> not today, but last thursday you did. it sucked. >> in other words, how is it a victory for me to have failed to have my head jammed in the toilet in the bathroom? >> because it's politics. politics aside, the politics is jamming your head in the toilet, that's politics. and theoretic think, three things politically between noi and the fall that i think they'll try to do. save jobs, jobs, jobs. try to out-jobs each other, both sides, in the same way they were trying to out debt-debt each other. in september, remember, the continuing resolution on the budget and at some point in september we have to establish this super committee, and that is where, i think, you'll hear the discussion, it will pivot to

priorities. will it be all about our priorities. >> and spending priorities. which will get us -- >> spending and cutting. >> what about prosperity? >> we could go talk to them and see if they'd add that to the list. the talking points have been priten in priorities. >> where is our american leadership on prosperity? >> there is none right now. >> no leadership? >> there's no leadership on any side of the aisle. no one willing to put it all on the line. that's what americans want to see now. they want to see a leader. see someone put it all on the line. people oh know disagree with the tea parters, quite at few, not the whole group, were willing to put it on the line. they fought their leadership. but other than that, we -- >> and the tea party is a willingness to put it all on the line in the path of destruction is not as valuable as putting it all on the line in the path of creation. they want somebody that's putting it all on the line to create prosperity not putting it all on the line to -- jam the government. >> and this is where politically the republicans get to go back.

they get to go home, talk about jobs. they can say we cut spending. because they really should be talking about jobs. you know what? people will focus on -- i agree with karen. they're going to talk about priorities. >> speaking of priorities, on this show the next priority is the ary screening mechanism, because we're running out time and want to get to it. if you didn't see the news of the day, boston's logan's airport is claiming they will start to the apply israeli-style security screens. what does that mean? intense training and rigorous standards for the screeners themselves, as if he are in executive position where they interrogate individuals coming through, where it is their job using their brilliant training and intellect to differentiate between individuals and characteristics and microexpressions in their face tip them off as terrorists and are pulled out ant dealt with. this is the israeli model, and we're going to do it with three hours of training paying tsa trainers $24,000 a year to engage in one of the more

sophisticated mechanisms of person-to-person interaction. >> i wonder when the first lawsuit's going to be? it is about profiling. seriously. >> of course. >> weren't of the tough things they do in israel, they profile. of course, that will tleed a lawsuit. it will never get off the ground. a good thing. i wouldn't want those people try to -- >> the experience is very different. having been pro fyfed, i suppose, in israel. the way they pat you down. it was quite an experience. >> hey, how you doing? >> it's very to the business. >> right. versus here in the u.s. -- exactly. >> it's a security environment. >> here in the u.s. it's on my blackberry i'll i'm doing this and rubbing your breasts and feeling your waist and -- >> holy crap. >> and it feels -- >> right, dave letterman apparently loves that. >> that doesn't make you feel like that is a security measure. i've had people make comments about pictures in my wallet. that doesn't make me feel safe. that is not your business. how do you catch the terrorist if you're busy feeling -- >> the rhetoric of jobs without

policy or reform or debate around jobs what you're suggesting. sounds like we're getting the rhetoric of the latest, greatest version of security, which is israeli microexpressions and interviews without either the resources or training to actually deliver it. and pandora's box that is lawsuits around profiling. is that basically -- >> profiling -- listen, i just came back from israel. i didn't get blown up. when was the last time -- can someone tell me the last time an israeli jet was blown up? >> i'm not questioning the effectiveness. i can see it. of course, do it but you're going to be in charge of doing it. i'm going to give you a bunch of college educated people i'm paying $24,000. >> or not. >> no, no. college educated. i can tell you what i'll give you in america. a requirement in america. college educated, give you three hours of training and $30,000 a year. do you think those people are adequately trained to detect the

microexpression on -- >> i don't know. i'm flying in and out of boston a lot. >> someone got today, great headlines. good politics. >> sorry. >> it's like the breach of integrity on my pledge where i robe o'signed it. it looks like i made the pledge. i've signed the pledge. appears we're using israeli security, advertising israeli security but not actually going to train the people -- >> but you'll feel better. >> you'll actually do all the training. >> they've clearly lived to me. >> i'm still flying with cocktails. that's all i can say. >> enjoy yourself. >> i will. >> once again a two for one special. a good deal at the airport absolutely. charging our way out of the financial armageddon. three years later, why are the banks running a giant -- subs skied with trillions of dollars from you the american taxpayers? ♪ let me entertain you ♪ let me make you smile

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democratic congressman emanuel cleaver calmed the debt ceiling bill a sugar-coated satan sandwich. yeah. to which a spokesman for denny's replied, hey, don't drag our new sandwich into this. it's a good sand cl. sandwich. hmm. >> ah, the jokes abound when it comes to the american debt folly, but a serious question to consider -- is the u.s. when it comes to our own values of problem-sochling in a high stakes game, no less, the laughingstock of the global economy? in spite of debt deal concerns at ratings agencies downgrading our credit. probably knew that. because they say the deal didn't go far enough between the bailouts and our leaders' unwillingness to deal with the structural problems. aagree regardless of our letter grade, the damage certainly is present. as we saw in 2008, a aaa rating is hardly a guarantee of

quality. it may be a license to print money. let's bring in our specialist today speaking of money printing, neal barofsky. former specialer inspector general, better known at t.a.r.p., now at bloomberg television as a contributing editor. welcome back. congrats on the bloomberg gig. >> great to be back. >> are you enjoying the free food and the kaez crazy thing? you'll gain a few pounds. telling you. be careful with the pop tarts, neal. >> it's heaven. >> all right. former and bloomberg employees are -- collecting royalties. yes. if were you to look at how we got into debt, and you look at the projected numbers for increased deficit in 2008, something like $5 trillion, the projected, and then you look at the projected number of 2010,s

13ds trillion. you have an $8 trillion increase in projected debt over two years. between 2008 and 2010. two-thirds of that $8 trillion in projected new debt for america, that began when barack obama became president, is directly correlated to the recession, the housing collapse and increased entitlement expenses as a result of the unemployment. in other words, $6 trillion of the $8 trillion is from the financial crisis. you sat in the middle of the resolution for the financial crisis. we're having a whole debt debate whether to cut social security, take food from the poor people, tax the rich people, but no one talking about the way this happened through the collapse of the clinton money machine. can we get out of this if we do not acknowledge how we got into it? >> no, dylan. you're absolutely correct. we're in a debt crisis because of the previous financial crisis baufr the existence of financial

institutions too big to fail, distorted the markets, led them to take on excessive risk. they imploded and everything casca cascaded. through all the things you're talking about. what have we done to fix the system? where are we today? we have financial institutions, bigger, more concentrated, more politically connected and s&p, pick on the ratings agencies what they said, not only are these banks after regulatory reform still the impress it guarantee, the next financial crisis hits it's going to cost $5 trillion up front. we can celebrate and pretend we have a significant fimilestone with this debt reduction if that happens, it's gone and worse. >> why is it the conversation we're having about how we got into the deficit and we need to reconcile the deficit doesn't exist anywhere in the political atmosphere including with the tea party who proclaims to be, or have the genesis in the context of the financial bailouts and yet when you look

at the fact two-thirds of the deficit is a result of the financial collapse due to housing, unemployment and increased entitlement expenses there's not a single political voice, not that you're the defender of the tea party. don't mean to suggest as much. whether it's the tea party, the progressive caucus or the president or the republican leadership. nobody is on the stick saying, the reason we have a prosperity problem is because of what neal barofsky just said. >> because they say, all of those things, they lump it together. washington. that's the problem. that's how come the tea party people were elected. that's washington. that's establishment. that's what's wrong. i need a job. my neighbor needs a job. that's what the american people want to talk about. they don't care about the debt ceiling. >> yeah, but that's not fair. what neal is saying, if you want a job, politically, you are going to need to stop the theft of your nation's money through banking and trade policies that are enabling that theft. so you can, say you want a job all day. that's saying i want water in

the bucket. until i plug the hole in the bottom of the bucket, all the money is running back out, there is no amount of jobs i can put in that bucket. >> i would ask what can the american public do? you say, where does that come from in response to dylan what can the american public do? what will they focus on at community board meetings or what have you? >> remarkable. the tea party was born from the bailouts. when it first started. they first started taking to the streets, it was all about the bank bailouts and control of washington. and then they got elected and the issue disappears. amazing the corruptive influence of washington. completely hijacked by lobbyists and financial institutions. >> and go after spending instead of the banks. go ahead, please. >> i am not the big defender of washington but i will say you have heard some members of the progressive caucus, congress' black caucus reminding us day in, day out, wa all of these big numbers mean. part ever the problem with the american public is we're talking trillions and millions and billions and most people deal in

1s, 10s, 20s, 100s and we never get to the won't, where it's in washington, the dialogue is, jobs, because to what we were saying. that's the first step. >> great dialogue. >> to your point about prosperity and other larger causes, in theory we're supposed to be able to trust our leaders. to deal with that piece. i know i need a job. i know i want to be prosperous, to take care of my family, but i'm trusting you to get it done. >> when that breaks down by virtue ever the manipulation of policy through special interests you end up with the alienation susan described, brn the place to the ground. mr. williams? >> just heard a lot of lobbyist and special interest bashing. i want to ask you a question. should the american people blame themselves for getting themselves in this hole? for overspending, taking mortgages they shouldn't have taken. for the banks offering up mortgages they should have never offered? in essence, are the american people at all culpable for their own problems? or should they just blame the politicians every single time they get down?

>> oh, no. the politicians aren't the only ones to blame, although they've enabled this. the american people are responsible in that they've overleveraged themselves just like our financial institutions. >> right. >> but it's also a little too symptom say, oh, these are the greedy homeowners using their homes at atms. a corrupt system that encouraged the largest financial institutions to play on that greed and also there's a lot of misrepresentations a lot of predatory lending and fraud that led to the bubble. >> absolutely. >> volalso, they're the ones wh elected these that are making decisions. talk as jobs be jobs, jobs, didn't we hear this in the state of the union this year and last year? i heard the president say, now we're going to focus on jobs. do you shrug your shoulders and say, oh, now. now! >> we shouldn't laugh. it's tragic. it's actually tragic. >> it is tragic, but people are just -- just when you think washington can, can't get more

cynical. >> and disingenuous. >> we reach great levels. followed by a pledge of more jobs. >> great to see you. hope to see more of you. i'll watch you over on bloomberg. jimmy, karen and susan, the best the business have ha to offer when it comes to making conversation that goes to solving these problems and i'm grateful to participate with you guys in it. you make it better as well. thank you. coming up, an "snl" star trading comedy for a much more dramatic role. woman: day care can be expensive.

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serving as the master of ceremonies. not only is he hilarious, also highly qualified for the job. >> i think i'm chief shark officer for obvious reasons. i love sharks. i'm a really bad swimmer. justin timberlake passed. what else? >> while i'm sure sandberg will form ably, i, too, am a rather big fan and of shark week. inspiring a week of my own shows once upon a time. >> the whale week rolls on. our celebration of capitalism and the central figures -- yes, indeed, the animation is still there behind it. >> whale week never rated as well as old shark week but an indication of my desire and appetite, if nothing else. not to say i wanted anything horrible to happen to andy, but should he be eaten alive by a great white shark -- i would like to humbly throw my

hat in the ring as his replacement. a quick break. remember, we're always on dylanratigan.com and you can tweet me at dylan ratigan or find us on facebook. up next here, mom always said, eat your vegetables. but what if she had paid you to do it? [ woman ] jogging stroller. you've been stuck in the garage while i took refuge from the pollen that made me sneeze. but with 24-hour zyrtec®, i get prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. so lily and i are back on the road again. with zyrtec® i can love the air®. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one. energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy developement comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly

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what with the explosion of obesity, diabetes over the last 30 years and explosion in related health care costs as a result, our next guest says it time to get involved using the tax code. specifically, tax the foods that make people sick and subsidize the food that makes people healthy. scientifically answerable questions. things like green, vegetables, dried legumes, fruit. should be subsidized. some foods taxed. mark bicman says heart disease, diabetes and cancer are linked to the so-called standard american diet, or s.a.d., for those of you following along at home. and that it's time for the government and all of us collectively to take the stand for our public's health or our own well-being, both physically and financially. our health care costs are out of control. here to break it down here, "new

york times" columnist and author "how to cook everything," mark bittman. the argument, the kax today should be managed to help create for incentives to be healthy? >> like do you want to use taxes to help people or use taxes to hurt people? seems to me right now we're doing just about everything wrong, at least when it comes to food. >> explain. >> we're directly subsidizing the crops that produce bad meat, and not subsidizing those that make us healthy. as a result we have increased health care costs. increased heart disease, diabetes and down the line when these are real contributors to the debt problem, as we know, and we have people leading sick or sicker lives than they need to be leading. >> you're referring to, the subsidy, talks ex-ex-lis ita

ex-ex-explicitly -- >> direct to corn and soybeans, used to produce mostly junk food. talking incorrect subsidies because we all pay each other's health care costs. the sicker we are, the more we're paying for it and ignoring the cost to the environment that these kinds of crops are creating. >> it all makes sense to me. one thing strikes me as a critical problem in your theory. if i want to raise money to run for president, i have to do well in the iowa primaries. if i don't do well in the iowa primary, i cannot create the optics of momentum that allow me to go to other states in order to accumulate the funding to move forward. in order to do well in the iowa primary, i must be in favor of corn subsidies. >> well, it's a problem. i mean, i agree, it's a problem. i'm not a political analyst. but there actually are farmers, farm bureau representatives, even big farmers who say let's

do without the corn subsidies and grow our crops and make money the way farmers made money before. we encourage nobody to grow vegetables. no one in this country is being encouraged to grow vegetables and everyone in iowa, i read today, by the way, grows more grain than canada. i mean, that's incredible. >> and we subsidize it. that actually is evidence using taxes and subs skies works. >> we know it works. as i said at the beginning what we're doing, doing it all wrong. we're not using tax policy to help people. we're using tax policy to actually make people sick. >> one other issue with your crazy idea. >> crazy, isn't it? >> how is it that the food industry and the meat industry and the sugar industry can make as much money as they do if they don't have the benefit of those foreign subsidies, one. two, how is it that the drug industry, health insurance industry and fee for service doctors can make as much money as they do if people who do not

have diabetes and are not sick from all the sugar they're eating? >> why is that my problem. i don't care if they have -- >> but they give political contributions to politicians who ensure a rigged tax code that keeps them profitable and you sick. >> you know, that's a discussion about how ordinary people are able to exercise in this country. it's obviously a different and more complicated discussion than i'm sure ones you have all the time. i can't answer that in 30 seconds. >> and eve than i bring it up, rhetorical rhetorically. >> it's a problem. >> the reason i bring it up, then we'll what this, but, is -- your idea is brilliant, rational, engaged. >> creating jobs for people who need jobs. and you can't get that done either. >> and i am one of 300 mill people who -- here you go. u of "how to cook

everytng." check it out. we'll get that up on dylanratigan.com later tonight. so you can check it out there along with all over the google and of course at the "new york times." a pleasure. >> thank you. >> thank you, mark. coming up on "hardball," after the debt shenanigans, chris is asking what the tea party will do for an encore. could it be true -- money really can buy happiness, just not in a way that you might think. kraft singles. we're rich in calcium to help build 'em up strong. ooh, watch out, bad guys. kraft singles. the american cheese. handle more than 165 billion letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? millions? tens of millions? hundreds of millions? not a single cent.

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a debt debate on the back burner for now. washington is ready to talk about jobs or at least nearing

the august recess. joining us a man who says he know as thing or two about creating jobs and using capital to manifest potential and solve a problem in a way that creates jobs. he actually did. tony, wildly successful online retailer built on a simple model word of mouth. tony is author of "delivering happiness: a path to profits, passion and purpose." sound like one heck of a title. you have lived this. taken money to realize your potential to provide a service that solves a problem that you believe is a path to happiness. can you describe what defines that for you? >> it's essentially the subtitle. one of the things we learned over time was that it takes more than just a focus on profits. you have to be able to combine profits, passion and purpose, having a higher purpose in the company in order to build a long-term sustainable growing company, and we learned that through trial and errorish turns out it's backed by research, and

i think there are too many economies in corporate america that focus only on the profits part of it. they either forget about or don't care about the passion or purpose part of it and that ends up hurting their ability to genre ate orr profits in the long term. >> how? >> that's just what research shows. i don't know why it happens. >> fair enough. >> for us, there's actually been -- we discovered this independently. research shows two point elements that separate the great companies in terms of long-term financial performance from just the good ones, and mediocre once. first, a strong value system. translates into, for us, a formalized definition of economy culture and the second is having a vision that has a higher purpose beyond just money or profits or being number one in the market and ironically, that actually is what enables those companies to generate more profits in the long term. >> you're talking crazy. saying if you have a high -- a real purpose, and then have shared values that becomes a

formalized corporate culture or company culture to pursue that higher purpose, that you can actually make money? >> that profits actually become a natural by-product of that, and including strength of the culture. strength of the brand, and most importantly, probably engaged employees and customers. >> how much does things like the tax code, the earning ability of industries that do not produce thing things distort people from pursuing passion and purpose, because there are simply easier ways in the short term to get money? >> i don't know. i can't really speak for other companies or industries. i think for me one of the reasons why i love being in the internet industry is because you can make changes very quickly and see the results. for us, that's really about focusing on customer service, and doing things like offering free shipping both ways or surprising our customers with

upgrades in overnight shipping. we see the results right away and we see the business grow and us growing through word of mouth. >> you talk about those techniques. surprising the customer. >> right. >> making the decision to ship it early or ship. free or whatever, whatever the technique might be. it seems like a relatively minor thing. why do you see that type of interaction and behavior as actually so influential? >> it's not -- you know, the things you just mentioned, it's not really a check list of things. we have these things, where it's a successful business. it's more about the attitude and mentality of the entire organization and the getting alignment from employees to really, in our terms, we say, to do it well for the service and that applies to how we treat our many employees, how we treat our customer, treat our vendor partners, and when you get that alignment, the whole organization, we found, just moves a lot faster, and can grow quickly. >> so you mentioned very directly the nature of the culture with the employees.

are you suggesting that the culture of the treatment of the employees should be similar if not identical to the culture of the treatment of the customer? >> for us, yes. we really see it as just one value system. and you shouldn't be a different person when talking to employees versus talking to employees versus interacting with your business partners. ideally, treat them all the same and have the same approach to business. we've outlined those in terms of our values. >> which are -- >> things like creative adventures, be humble, embracing change and a lot of organizations, especially bigger organizations in corporate america, are stuck on a certain way of doing things because that's what worked in the past, and that actually ends up hurting their ability to adapt to a change in environment. >> and how dangerous is it, tradition, so that going back tens of thousands are year, travel history of the world and was incredibly valuable. your grandfather would tell you, don't eat the red berries.

uncle bob died. you don't eat the red berries. and at a time of changes in society, low, very valuable. in adherence to where the ratings change is high in society is how dangerous? >> it's very -- there's a quote by charles darwin and it's something along the lines of, it's not the most intelligent or fastest of species that survives, it's the ones most adaptable to change. the same is true for business, i think. you constantly see businesses that used to be really, really big and unstoppable are suddenly not adapting to things like technology and the internet and so on. so it's actually very dangerous now to actually not do anything and not make changes. >> last question, quickly. would you put adaptability at the top priority for a successful business? >> i think it's a combination of being open-minded. being adaptable and actually one