blueberries? why not hamburgers for sal? they are coming for your food and dr. seuss, all places you'll go. look at that cover. kind of looks like the gay pride flag. coincidence? i don't think so. look, i want to thank rick santorum for schooling us one more time. the danger of preschool. the kids, eating together. napping together. what could we think of next? letting our children learn their abcs together. thank you, rick. thank you for watching. i'm al sharpton. have a great weekend. "hardball" starts right now. job number one -- create jobs now. let's play "hardball."

good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, time for a jobs program. one day after a nerve rattling loss of more than 500 points on the dow, some encouraging news. the jobless rate dropped in june and more jobs were created than expected. the stock market lurched this way and that finishing mod deftly higher and president obama tried to reassure american voters we're going get through this. that things are going get better. this much we know. his presidency depends on. is there anything he can do right now? i say, yes, there is. people need work. they need jobs. if private industry won't do it it's time for the government to step up. the country's falling apart. old roads and crumbling bridges. the best of america was built during it hard times, let's remember. things like the empire state

building, the hoover dam and golden state bridge. let's do it again. also, rick perry's religious jamboree in houston. is it gathering of the faithful or the fringe? calling the statue of liberty a demonic idol right in the middle of new york harbor. a report from our own richard angell in somalia, a devastating famine preying on the largest, weakest, the most defenseless. let me finish with a new idea. time for good old action. let's begin tonight with wall street jim cramer, the host of c nbc's "mad money." unemployment dropped from 9.1 positive 9.2. the economy added 117,000 new jobs in july. what are your thoughts? >> okay. i thought this was plain unadulterated okay news. i didn't say good news. okay news. looking for something completely un-okay, we were going to actually, a thought maybe there would be no jobs created at all. look, chris, there's a lot of bad news out there, this wasn't one of them. this was actually something that was a relief.

>> what do you make the fact the dow wound up 61 ahead from where it started? not the second fear run. i thought a run on the bank today after yesterday. >> i want to make a point it was really not our fault this time around. the 500 yesterday, down 200 today after up 176. it's europe. it's europe. it's europe. it's europe. they're falling apart over there. they don't have any leadership. there's nothing coming out of europe that makes any sense. if they don't develop a plan sunday night, including italy we'll be back down 200 monday morning right at the opening. >> tough question. take a moment to pause on this one. it may not conform to your speed of answer usually. is the federal government spending too much money this now, right now, or too little? right now? more or not enough? >> i have, i had eric cantor on today. look, obviously, going on and on how bad unemployment is. obviously extend unemployment. no. huh? i mean, we are about to have a

retail collapse in this country if we don't get some people to have these unemployment benefits. he's talking we got to help the unemployed. what are you kidding? help the unemployed. >> doesn't make sense. back from the theory to reality. if we hear that they're going to reopen and hire 500,000 new people, everybody in south philly would go crazy. everybody, all the places, every clothing store, everything would be booming down there. it's not going to happen, but it would be job creation. if boeing doubled its contract with planes, greats news in seattle. in houston it's space. in the south, west virginia, bobby bird, the jack murtha in johnstown, pennsylvania. why do people have a disconnect? they know the government creates jobs. every time in our life from world war ii, economically, all our experience locally and historically the government creates jobs, and eric cantor, a religious notion of some kind

that somehow this belief in small business means the government shouldn't do anything. when small business is the area of the economy that does best when the government spends money. what is he talking about? >> they're the puppies that gets started around the big project of government funds. that's how it works. >> sure. >> it's a feeder system. small business doesn't start first. >> so why do they keep saying that government spending is bad when we know we need to have somebody spend and the consumer's scared, the investor's scared. if government's got to nerve to do it don't they have to do it? we studied this in school, learned it from history, from our parents talking about jobs reopening in the neighborhood. defense contracts being let, yet the right wing sold an ideology of do nothing? >> look, it's a great way to elect a president. isn't it? if you get the unemployed so they're so disenfranchised they don't have enough money to spend, you get the very -- negative poll readings for

president obama by being obstructionist. it works, chris. the other part of the ledger. not good for country but it works. >> thank you much. one last question. this is the city on $2.5 trillion, not hiring anybody. kids going to movie, unless it's got a robot, don't want to see a movie. we've become a robotic nation. is that where we're headed? rather have robots? we believed the secretary this morning. >> do a deal, repatriate the money and people have to hire in return -- we're thinking about it. hey, listen, both the democrats and republicans are not doing their best to create jobs. you bring back that trillion dollar, get people hired even if it's a dividend money and make people feel better, but that's money's got to come back and the president has to say i want it back and i want it back now. >> and the secretary of the treasure --. i'd take the job in a blast. in a blast. >> "mad money" on cnbc. for more on the politics of the economy, turn to a democratic consultant, bob

shrum. met on the road to somewhere. the latest "new york times" cbs poll shows 62% of americans say the country should give higher part to the job creation versus 29% in cutting spending. you just heard from cramer. i don't know his politic, i like him and don't know his politics. he says it's time 20 spend money. my question again, everybody knew growing up, a contract for boeing or anybody, or bud company, i group up in philly, every time they spent money there were jobs and jobs around job. why don't they do it? >> i don't get it. he ought to put a real jobs agenda in fronts of the congress, real job creation. even if they're not going to pass it and then fight for it. jfk didn't stop proposing medicare because the congress wouldn't pass it. you've got to go out and fight

for the things you believe in. >> what would teddy kennedy do right now? i'm serious. rite now? >> an infrastructure investment bank, john kerry has been pushing hard to get all of that money out there into those roads, those bridge, the railroads. get that construction spending going. that's one thing he'd do. you'd certainly extend unemployment compensation dry lines with republicans. old-fashioned democratic. ask the country, who's fighting for the middle class, standing up for jobs and prove you were the one doing it. >> keep going. keep going. >> the other thing the president said, well, i talked about change. you know, we're going to believe in, but i didn't mean change right way. i didn't mean change tomorrow. we have to wait for change. you know, that is a depressing message. that tells people to endure. what he needs to be saying is, we'll nerve are stop fighting for change, and he has to carry that fight to the country. >> well, let's talk about

reality here. and you and i grew up in america. we know this country. the president knows this country. when something needs building, i mean, we look at chicago. there's a city that's been run well over years. its public sector makes sense. they've got the best downtown, got it all figured out. everything makes sense. the best museums. everything's there for the people. it works. what is this fear of government? this sense that government is by its nature incompetent? why does obama, why is he selling that by inaction? he doesn't seem to believe it anymore. >> i don't know that you can at this point given all the rhetoric that's out there defend government action as an abstraction, temperature you what you can defend. you can defend putting government back to work. get people back to work. defend building a bridge. you can talk about the fact the whole interstate highway system in this country was done by government. in other words, the president who decided we could go to the moon and that was done by government. government now needs to step into this economy, and to spend more while having a long-term

deficit reduction plan tied to the pace of recovery. that's what any economist would say. that's what jim cramer was saying a minute ago. instead we have a mythology, and i think a self-serving mythology. i think the republicans may want to wreck the economy. make it even worse, assuming that's their road to the white house. >> well, i don't know what their motivation is. i've been told by people they're stockholders would kick them out of their ceo jobs, holding back on investments to screw a democratic president. i don't know what motivates people but it seems like, the proper motive isn't working, creating job or have an unstable society. the unemployment is not reflective of how many of out of work. we know how many are underemployed. working at jobs they could do nor and are deprived of that opportunity. my question again, go through the next year. we know that localities benefit when things are built and people are put in jobs not thrown out.

why is the public resent that? led to resent that? >> i don't think the republicans have done very well, tea party republicans talking about big government in the abstract. debt in the abstract. i think the president has done, you know, about as well as he could in a very difficult situation, but he has now got to turn and turn and communicate with the country. he's got to fight for jobs. he's got to go out there and be willing to draw the dividing lines and say, look, i'm fighting for you. they're fighting for the special interests. take financial reform, which they never talk about. he ought to be saying, we want to make sure wall street excesses are reined in.

it's a democratic message -- >> you guys -- >> go ahead. >> mitt romney once, beat him when he tried to knock off ted kennedy, and you beat him because he didn't know what he was talking about. he's a little better, smarter than then, but not that great. here's the romney campaign. how would you deal with this? the statement he put out today. mitt romney. today's unemployment report represents the 30th straight month that the jobless rate has been above 8%. the administration promised with their $800 billion stimulus that would keep unemployment below that number. when you see what the president has done top the economy in just three years the american people don't want to know what he can do in eight. promise jobs, jobs, jobs. doesn't the president have to act now? or give him that argument? a year from now? >> sure. that's why i say, he's got to put a real jobs agenda, real jobs program out there and then mitt romney, because the tea party types won't let him, there have to be against it and also you can then. >> yes. >> on that basis, go to romney's only record which was guy who destroyed jobs, not created them in the private sector. he was a restructure artist who made millions and millions and millions of dollars while cutting people's wages and putting them out of work. >> he was running a chop shop,

out in coming out saying how he's go going to create jobs. bob, i'm warning us and anybody that cares about this country. you'll see guy claims to create jobs, it's easy to promise something when you're the only alternative to nothing. in terms of job creation it's nothing on the democratic side. you've got to do something and play your own strengths. i don't know why they're not playing this strength. bob shrum, as always a wise man. >> thank you. what this country needs a jobs program. too many are out of work and too many things that need done and not getting the people that want to work with the jobs that need to be done. we did it in the great depression, we can do it again and the president needs to stand up to any republican that says we shouldn't be spending money. shrum is right. make them say no. let them say this bridge is fine the way it is, as dangerous as it is. we don't have to fix it. let them say that. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. a full serving of vegetables plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit.

[ male announcer ] get five dollars in money-saving coupons at v8juice.com. president obama is losing ground in the all-important state of florida. an important one.

deadlocked in a hypothetical matchup with mitt romney. i said so 44-44. a lot of promises out there, romney. the president is losing support of independent voters. they disapprove of the job he's doing by nearly 2-1. trouble for obama. 61 disapprove. dark clouds for the president in the sunshine state. he's got to get out of that. he's got to get out of that. we good idea. let's go. did i just say that out loud? [ female announcer ] feel fresh up to 5 times longer with scope outlast. still feeling fresh? oh, yeah. [ female announcer ] what will you outlast? excuse me? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there.

[ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.

welcome back to "hardball." isn't it time we start talking about green jobs? this country is broken. there ought to be a way to fix it. america can put people to work in the bridges out of shape, updating of infrastructure, a fancy word we rely on every day. during the great depression, the great things we see, public sector jobs done during the great depression. from maryland, right with me and eugene, columnist for "the washington post." two people i trust.

let's start with this. why doesn't president obama act like a democrat and start creating public service jobs? the talk of the deficit, reality of adding $1.7 trillion to the deficit scares democrats out of being democrats? >> way we get the government rolling, talk about investing and not just reducing spending. >> why are we doing the other? >> i'll have this argument and debate with our democratic caucus and with the president. now's the time to spend money. infrastructure, big words, roads, bridges, water and sewage systems. put people to work. 150,000 bridges that need repair in the country. >> go down to richmond and look for the bridges below code and all the roads that have potholes and all the system, water systems and sewage systems out of dates and putt them on local television. one name standing beside fixing these things.

his name is eric cantor. give it to him. like i did in my old days. my job working for tip o'neill. thinking of thing like that. >> no. look, this is a country where a couple years ago we had a bridge fall into the mississippi river. i mean, it's not as if the work isn't there to be done. not as if there isn't a need. there's a huge need for infrastructure improvement. go to almost any developed country in the world and look around at the airport. look at our airports. >> have you seen l.a.x. airport lately? it's a dump. penn station in new york? the train station? it's a rat hole. paul crudeman, "new york times" echoed what i've been saying here on "hardball." the point is that it's now time, long past time, to get serious about the real crisis it's economy faces. the fed needs to stop making excuses while the president needs to cup up with real job proposals and if republicans block those proposals, make a harry truman-style campaign against the do-nothing gop. this might or might not work. the economic policy of the past two years has been working, and

the millions of americans who should have jobs, but don't. getting on that bus, gus, he's going to be riding around the midwest for what purpose? he's not pawlenty. he's not some politician running for the presidency. he's got the job. >> well i think we have to go to where the roads and bridges are. you don't have to drive to richmond. go rights out or in washington, d.c. and find roads in disrepair. a water main break, held up traffic up and down the each seaboard. we can do this. it's not rocket science. it was done after the great depression to get people back to work. spend $1 billion, a lousy $1 billion on infrastructure and get 35,000 jobs out of that. >> why weren't re doing that? >> we need to. >> why isn't pelosi proposes a big job spill? why don't they do that? >> we have.

it's not just an infrastructure thing. we will a proposal for $600 billion to the spent on building roads and pitches and it's stalled. right now the republicans are proposing, $ 200 billion. the urban says we have $2 trillion in infrastructure and they want to spend -- >> i read the papers every day and don't know this. >> you should. >> that's my fault? >> no, no. the americans out of work know it, because their construction is the -- >> and independent journalist. the democratic party is not selling itself as a jobs party because it's not actually fighting for jobs. they control the u.s. senate. where's the jobs bill from the senate? >> good question. look, there are democrats like edwards and others who talk about infrastructure, who understand the need to -- >> that's about as good a word -- i love those words.

boring, boring words. >> yeah. bad words. but there are other democrats who frankly are cowled, i believe, by the republican message machine that debt and deficit are somehow a more urgent problem than the deepest and longest lasting, you know, recession since the great depression, but it's a appeared we're going to look back on and have to come up way name for, like great depression. if it proceeds. maybe it's not technically a depression, but unprecedented numbers of americans are out of work. >> yeah. i wonder -- >> not just -- not just the infrastructure, a huge part of it, but the real estate crisis. >> we have that crisis. i believe in capitalism, like we all do generally, but there's a problem with capitalism right now. you can't rely on it to create

jobs. big corporate boardrooms are stuffed with money. s $2.5 trillion sitting in their wallets, not spending. they're firing people and bringing in robots. that's what's going on. >> and the economy is exactly why we have to have government, and i know there's been -- so much beating up on government that people actually believe government can't do anything, but what government can do is hire people, you know, send the money out to the states. get those road crews going again. put the billion dollars to create the 35,000 jobs, another $86 billion from the -- has to bring the food by the road crew to the cafeteria. people will be working across this economy. this is not rocket science. >> tried to do did now. money is cheap. >> gene, make your point. pictures to show. structures that went up. hoover dam. there it is. hoover dam. rachel maddow doing all the ads out there. the golden gate bridge going up. then the empire state building

going up. private sector. the other, public sector. we have a golden gate picture coming up. golden gate. when i think one of mankind's improvements on nature. i just went over that a couple times. that is an improvement on nature as 2 it went up. built at the time, tremendous unemployment, a lot of guys and women looking for jobs, and they were given jobs and labor was relatively cheap as it is now available, and there's resources out there. we don't have inflation now, and i look at this, this beautiful city, the federal triangle, jefferson memorial, all of this stuff built during the times. an imaginative opportunity to do it again. gene? >> i couldn't agree more. go around the city and pick out the projects that ought to be done. let's do them. >> what they do with private sector giving, 99% will go to charity not administrative costs. the next time the president passes one of these doofus

stimulus bill, 99% will go to actual construction jobs. nothing to tax cuts. everything will go construction jobs you can actually see and smell and stand on sidewalk and look at. then we'll believe in stimulus, when we can actually see it. that's the trouble with the bill, anyway. i'm lecturing to the experts here. thank you, congresswoman. looking at me, stop giving speeches. >> eugene robinson. i won't. up next, the truth comes out. a former michele bachmann aide quit because of her tendency to make things up. ooh. that's next in the "sideshow." you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. the safety of onstar is now available for your car.

♪ [ recorded voice ] onstar. we're looking for city hall. i'm sending directions to your car. [ recorded voice #2 ] turn right on hill street. go north for two miles. ♪ [ man ] this is onstar. i got a signal there's been a crash. do you need help? yes, please. i've got your gps location. i'm sending help. [ female announcer ] introducing onstar fmv. get it installed on your car at best buy or visit onstar.com for more stores.

back to "hardball." now the "sideshow." first up, fed up. that's how one of michele bachmann's recent chiefs of staff describes his sentiment

after repeatedly having to take the backlash of bachmann's tendency to make what he calls blatantly false statements. the $200 million trip to india. not true, and a statement that obama added more to the federal debt load than all the other presidents combined. that's right. all 43 of them. well, the former aide expressed frustration in a "wall street journal" interview saying "it was simply not true, and yet i could never get her to drop that line." the piece points out when it comes to staff bachmann has an unusually high turnover rate. next up, in the midst of a dismal employment, reaching out to voters and taking a trip down memory lane once a month. scott will take a day off gubernatorial duties and take on the employment at a local business. can it kicked off, working an a doughnut shop. he owned one of them in his

earlier days. he plans to continue with one workday a month, many weren't amused stopping by to hand over their pink slips to the governor in coin for jobs not doughnuts. quick thinking by rick santorum during a speech in iowa last night when the lights went out. a look at his unexpected reaction. [ mumbling ] >> he couldn't use the spotlight there. nothing like a little frank sinatra improv routine to prove when it comes to the candidate at least the lights are on in somebody's home. that brings us to tonight big number. texas governor rick perry is gearing up to a big prayer event in houston.

not unexpectedly the i plan to come is rather low. how many seats are available in the stadium? it can hold 71,500 people? roughly 6,300 -- actually, 63,500 seats still available. that's a bit ironic since the event is entitled "the response." if that's a response what do you call a regret? that's tonight's big number. we'll be back with more on rick perry's prayer jamboree coming up. can he afford to share the fringe with the fanatics at the big prayer jamboree yesterday? anti-gay remarks, anti-catholic remarks and calling the statue of liberty a demonic idol. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ female announcer ] this is not a prescription. this is kate.

[ kate ] can't believe i have high blood pressure. what's that thing? another medication. ♪ i really should have taken my shoes off before i got weighed. [ female announcer ] you've got a lot on your mind. that's why every walgreens prescription goes through a 10 point safeguard check that reviews your current walgreens health record for allergies and potentially harmful drug interactions. [ kate ] i can do this. [ female announcer ] the 10 point safeguard check from walgreens. there's a way to stay well. [ male announcer ] how could a luminous protein in jellyfish, impact life expectancy in the u.s., real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.

here's what's happening. the white house is waiting it see if standard and poors. downgrade the triple rating. a downgrade could be in the works. s&p put the u.s. on negative credit watch back in nid july. president obama has signed a bill ending a two-week partial shut down of the faa. thousands of furloughed workers will return to their jobs monday. a federal jury convicted five kufrnt and former new new orleans police officers in regards to the bridge during katrina. there is flash flooding in charlotte. more than 117,000 jobs in july bridging the unemployment rate down to 9.1%. >> today a modest gain for the market from the worst week in more than two years. now back to "hardball."

with the economy in trouble, communities in crisis and people adrift in a sea of moral relativism, we need god's help. that's why i'm calling on americans to pray and fast like jesus did, and as god called the israelites to do, i sincerely hope you'll join mean in houston on august 6th with praying people asking god's forgiveness, his wisdom and provision for our state and nation. >> hmm. welcome back to "hardball." that was, of course, govern every rick perry we're getting to know, inviting america to participate in the response, a day of prayer and fasting in texas. in houston, in fact. civil liberties groups are in texas protesting the event saying perry's religious revival blurs the line between church and state and some of the groups hold extreme right wing positions on gay rights and other issues. tony perkins and barry lynn,

executive director of americans united for separation of church and state. what do you make of the participants in this, tony? thanks for coming on, by the way, sir. what do you make of participants like brian fisher, reverend haggy, mike bikel. what do you make of these characters? >> well, first, let me thank you for bringing my old friend barry and i back together. we had a chance to visit in the green room pap few years since we've been together, and that actually makes the point when you look at who's going to be on the stage tomorrow. there's a lot of diversity when you look at kind of evangelical denominations. i'm southern baptist. richard is baptist. a lot of theological differences of opinion with some of those that will be there tomorrow. we share someone in common. an orthodox view of christianity. we're coming together not to make speeches or to preach but

rather to pray. to pray for the nation. >> respond to this, barry, the american family association, let's hear what he has to say. >> hitler discovered that he could not get straight soldiers to be savage and brutal and vicious enough, but that homosexual soldiers basically had no limit is of the savagery and brutality they willing to inflict on whoever hitler sent them after. permits in my judgment should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the united states of america. not one. we ought to be done with the building of mosques in the united states of america. president obama is half white and half black. herman cain is all black. he's authentically black. he is the real black man in the race. that's why president barack obama nurtures this hatred for the united states of america,

and i believe nurture as hatred for the white man. >> barry what do you make of this character? >> well, this is really fringe material, and, of course, governor perry shouldn't be calling on people in texas or around the country to come to a christian-only prayer rally, exactly how this started. the diversity that tony perkins talks about, by the way, does not include anyone who is muslim, anyone who is jewish. the only way they're invited to even come tomorrow is so they can learn about jesus, in other words, this is now government evangelism sponsored by, i think government evangelism, by the way, is an oxymoron. mr. fisher does not live in his basement employed by the american family association. the key lead sponsor of this event, chosen, recruited by the governor, to do this event, whether it's a success or a failure. so when people sometimes say,

well, guilt by association. no. this is guilt by construction. the governor decided who we haunted to lead it and he got just what he wanted. these people on the far fringes that even conservative christianity. >> tony, your response to the fact of the sponsored organization was just spoken for by that wing nut we just heard from who's saying gays are butcher, and didn't wan islamic practices in this country and a lot of far out stuff. he's the sponsor of this jamboree of religion? >> the american family organization, he has a talk show on american family association. look in terms of barry saying this is a fringe. the southern baptists are 18 of the largest protestant denominations, 18 million americans. are you saying they're all fringe? if you'd done your homework jewish people have spoken in favor of this. yes it is open to everybody and overtly a christian event. >> tony, why is it --

>> a christian event sponsored by the governor of the state of texas. the lone star state is a state. not a church, last time i checked. >> barry, barry, barry, not a single dollar of taxpayer money spent in this. all funded by the private sector over $2 million. let me ask you, barry, would you come to a prayer event? would you sponsor a -- >> let me moderate -- i welcome you here to be a guest not a moderator. look at this. catholic, most controversial statements in the past has been he called the catholic church the great whore. that's part of the diversity. hurricane katrina god's punishment or new orleans. america has become paganist society. here's a montage of controversial comments from brian fisher, a spokesman for the group sponsoring the event, mike bikel the natural house of prayer and head of heartland prayer network, each

participating in tomorrow's event. listen to this montage of voices and tony can respond. >> i believe that homosexuals are morally disqualified from holding public office. why? because they are engaging in sexually abhorrent behavior. >> there's a statue in new york harbor called the statue of liberty. know where we got it from? french free masons. listen, folks, that's an idol, demonic idol right there in the harbor. >> to receive the antichrist. i believe one of the main pastors as a forerunner to the movement yet is oprah. a classy woman, a cool woman, a charming woman, but has a spirited deception and she is one of the clear pastors, forerunner, to the harlot movement. >> i tell you, the harlot of babylon is oprah winfrey.

the statue the liberty, a demonic statue. these people don't sound like christians to me. are they to you? >> look, as i said before, not everybody that's on that platform agrees with what others have said or what they hold to believe, but there is one unifying factor that brings people there tomorrow, and it's what you will see. it is a prayer for our nation. a prayer for this state and for other states, for god to move in this country, and there's a unifying element. the orthodox view from christianity that jesus christ he is the means to communicate is the means of salvation, and >> with the father. therefore, we're having a christian event because in the pluralistic event that barry would sponsor, you can't pray in jesus' name. he wants a public sector, a public square that's devoid of christianity and some kind of nebulous, you know, i feel myself holy relation. >> no. actually that's not -- in fact, weren't of the -- >> you know, of course, we are

holding -- >> yeah, we're holding an alternative event. a family faith and freedom event tonight at a largely african-american church here. >> it is -- >> there will be voluminous presentations from the muslim and jewish community. why, because we think inclusiveness is the american way. it's the american principle. it's what the constitution requires. you and i both get invited to speak it large numbers of people. big events. are you telling me you didn't look into the backgrounds of these people or just cut them a break even though they've said these outlandish things? >> is this going to -- >> i said i don't agree with these things. >> do you support governor perry for president? tony, do you think rick perry would be a good presidential candidate? >> i think -- i think he has the makings of a presidential candidate.

let me say, barry's talking about, he wants elected officials to check their religion at the door. that's to the contrary. >> let me make a point -- barry, went to houston to meet with the ministers of houston and said he'd keep his religion apart from his public duties as president. do you think rick perry is doing that tomorrow? keeping his religion apart from his constitutional duties? >> no. merging the two and trying to act like the job description for governor of texas is find a way to bring everyone from san antonio to dallas to jesus. that is not part of the job description. i read what his job duties are. that is not one of them. and tony perkins, i've got say, again, this idea that somehow this is the double from politics

i think is nonsense. governor perry, if he jumps into this race is already jumping into a race filled with people two of whom, at least michele bachmann and newt gingrich, suggested that god has already chosen them to run. he's got to show that he's holier than those are. if he doesn't fill half of those seats in the stadium tomorrow, this will be a political disaster, whatever he has in mind. >> barry, you can't read the mind of -- thank you very much. tony perkins, thank you barry lynn. i think barry went over the boundary saying he know what's rick perry thinks. that's a blind reading operation. up next, the front lines of that horrible famine. serious business coming up near somalia. our own richard angell, best reporter around, in mogadishu with the latest. this is "hardball," only on msnbc. yup, america's favorite. so we're celebrating the honey sweetness, crunchy oats and... hey! don't forget me!! honey nut cheerios. make it your favorite too!

two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for our country's energy security and our economy. mitt romney may be looking over his shoulder at rick perry, whom we just talked about. signing an anti-gay pledge supporting another constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one

man and one woman. they love loving the constitution. keep changing it. one of three presidential candidates to sign the pledge. the other two staunch social conservatives, rick perry and, of course, michele bachmann. romney is watching his right flank as the texas governor considers getting in the race. we'll be right back. as much as i can about a company before i invest in it. that's why i like fidelity. they give me tools and research i can't get anywhere else. their stock screener lets me search for stocks with more than 140 criteria. i can see what their experts are thinking and even call them to bounce an idea off of one of their investment professionals. a good strategy relies on good insight. if you wanted to learn more about a company, i think you'd actually have to be there.

so i took my heartburn pill and some antacids. we're having mexican tonight, so another pill then?

unless we eat later, then pill later? if i get a snack now, pill now? skip the snack, pill later... late dinner, pill now? aghh i've got heartburn in my head. [ male announcer ] stop the madness of treating frequent heartburn. it's simple with prilosec otc. one pill a day. twenty-four hours. zero heartburn. no heartburn in the first place. great. we're back. thousands of people are dying from hunger over in somalia in the horn of africa and islamic terrorists are taking advantage by blocking the humanitarian aide and using it as a recruitment. joe biden's wife is leading a delegation to the region this weekend. you can see you can visit if you want to help and i hope you do. richard engle joins us now from

mogadishu, the capital of somalia. what have you seen over there that you can tell us about? >> what we were able to see today is there's starting to be a cholera outbreak. the only children's hospital, the conditions are appalling. no electricity, no water, no operating room, no toilets even, and you can imagine in a hospital where there's now a cholera outbreak and no toilets. people are just withering away, they are dying. we saw one woman about a week and a half ago, she had walked over 100 kilometers, 100 miles, excuse me, to get to this hospital and today she died of cholera and they took her body outside. so people are still coming to mogadishu, escaping some of the even harder-hit famine areas, but once they get here they are finding the situation is not much better.

>> what is the government doing? is there even a government now in part of somalia? >> there is a government, but i think you can also say the government is so weak that it is almost not a government. there is a central authority that is backed up by the united states, some international donors, it's backed on the ground by african peacekeepers. i'm on one of the african peacekeeper's military bases in mogadishu, there are 9,000 peacekeepers here from uganda. but this government, without the support financially from the outside world, without the physical support of the 9,000 troops would not exist and it doesn't exercise much authority in this country or even in mogadishu, it controls maybe half of the city, but without this extra support from the outside, it probably wouldn't control anything. >> you know, i look at desperation. i think it's the final limit of human desperation when you don't

bother to swat the flies anymore, there's so many of them and the conditions are so terrible. what can the united states do and what are we doing? not in that order, what are we doing and what can we be doing? >> this group you mentioned, al shabob controls this city and the country. it is a group allied with al qaeda, it has sent troops to fight alongside al qaeda and is getting support because yemen, across the gulf of aiden is here in such a state of chaos, al qaeda and yemen is helping al shabob here. it is not allowing any aide to come into its areas. >> thank you, richard engle in somalia. when we return, let me finish with a chris matthews' job program. you name it. i've tried it. but nothing's helped me beat my back pain.

then i tried this. it's salonpas. this is the relief i've been looking for. salonpas has 2 powerful pain fighting ingredients that work for up to 12 hours. and my pharmacist told me it's the only otc pain patch approved for sale using the same rigorous clinical testing that's required for prescription pain medications. proven. powerful. safe. salonpas.

i started tonight. it's jobs. not talk, not taxes, not this political togetherness that adds up to doing nothing, not a bus trip. here's my job's program and how to make it happen. president, get your public works and economic development people into government agencies to draw up a list of all the bridges below safety code in the congressional districts in the country and get help from the

chief engineers from those areas. start with that. have your local democratic political people, mayor, anybody else you can call, local newspaper, local tv affiliate and get the pictures before the local people. let them see the danger the bridge poses for the next car or school bus that goes over it and demand the local member of congress votes to fix it. get it? not about political defense or trying to match the other party in your ferer have to cut taxes or whatever else is on their agenda. it's putting people to work and doing things that need doing. look, if you want to get things built, the empire state building and golden gate bridge were put up during the great depression. do the jobs when there are people looking desperately for something to do. this is the chris matthews' jobs program, take the pictures, put them before the public and fix

it. if a member of congress refuses to do it, let him or her defend that dangerous bridge and let them explain why it's not good to do the job they are meant to do. the key here is focus. the key sheer keeping it local. the key is hitting the projects that need doing. not shovel ready, whatever that means. it's something broken that needs fixing and some lazy member of congress is keeping it from getting fixed. put the heat on people instead of letting them put it on you. the bus trip would be better, your planning, if you were taking it past the other public works jobs that you're dead set on doing and fixing and your opponents are afraid to refuse to do. so make them an offer they can't refuse. offer to fix the bridges they live. do it. it's a lot better than getting yelled at for doing something