nbc news, thanks for watching. we begin with breaking news. this morning out of afghanistan, 31 troops and seven afghan soldiers are dead after a nato helicopter crashed during an overnight operation. this all happened in the tan ji valley of the wardak province just west of kabul. it is the worst single day losses for coalition troops in afghanistan since this war began. on the heels of that, let's bring in jack jacobs. this is pretty serious stuff. give me an update on what we know. >> we think it's probably an mh-47ie e the kind of twin row tored helicopter that's frequently used in special operations.

the report from hamid karzai was that it was a special operations helicopter. and it was engaged in an operation against a built-up area. the taliban has claimed responsibility for shooting it down. but it's not clear whether or not it was shot down or it just crashed. you remember when our operation went against osama bin laden, one of the helicopters there, its rotor clipped the wall inside the compound, had to be replaced by another. it's easy to shoot these helicopters down but they also crash with great ease. 3 people killed in one crash, one incident is a huge number. >> uh-huh. where are we getting the information about the helicopter being shot down? >> well, that's coming straight from the taliban. taliban claims responsibility for every casualty and from helicopter, every aircraft that's lost and every mechanical malfunction, taliban claims responsibility for it. but it's not outside the realm of possibility that in fact they

are responsible for it. helicopters are extremely vulnerable, especially when they're landing and taking off. they're going zero miles an hour. they're easy to shoot down on or near the ground with small arms, automatic weapons. with rocket-propelled grenades, and even with shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, many of which we gave to the taliban years ago when they were fighting the russians. it remains to be seen whether or not it was shot down. right now the word is that it crashed. at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. you've lost 3 lives. >> absolutely. looking at the notes we're getting here, can we confirm the nationality of these troops? it could be any number of countries. >> it could be. evidently there were seven afghans, from what i can understand, seven afghans and 31 nato troops. karzai is saying they're americans special operations

troops. >> karzai is saying that? >> that's what karzai is saying. >> why would he say that? >> that's right. he doesn't know anything. he's saying what he believes. he may have some internal political motivations for releasing information he's not quite sure of or even information that he does know and there's some reason for his releasing it. something else to remember here. we never send special operations or other conventional operations with only one helicopter. there are -- there was at least one other and probably several other helicopters involved, including attack helicopters, apaches to accompany a ch-47. >> i know this is all breaking news. thanks so much for being here. we're going to have a live report coming from afghanistan any minute now. thank you, jack. let's go to the other top story. it is the newest blow to the u.s. economy that we're talking about this morning. for the first time ever, this country has lost its aaa credit rating.

standard & poor's has taken the u.s. down a notch after the long debt fight in washington. standard & poor's considers canada, france, and the uk more credit worthy than the u.s. our credit rating is on par new zealand and belgium. the downgrade comes on the heels of the newest jobs report showing the unemployment rate dropping slightly. the economy did add 117,000 jobs in july, but not enough to convince standard & poor's the u.s. is moving in the right direction. >> our job right now has to be doing whatever we can to help folks find work, to help create the climate where business can put up that job listing, where incomes are rising again for people. >> we were right to hold the president accountable on the debt limit because he's already back to proposing more stimulus spending, higher taxes and even more regulations. doubling down on the same failed policies is not the answer.

>> well, cnbc's chief washington correspondent john harwood has more from the white house what this downgrade means for the u.s. good morning to you. >> this is the kind of historical first that no country wants to have happen, a huge symbolic blow to the united states and its economy. it's always enjoyed a gold plated credit rating, and an embarrassment to president obama because it happened on his watch, to republicans because the president now has a tangible consequence to point to of the brinkmanship they played on the debt and deficit reduction deal and the standard & poor's because of the back and forth over their math before they finally released that credit rating at the end of the day yesterday. the hope of the administration is that this doesn't have major tangible economic consequences. it doesn't raise the interest rates of every american on their car loans and their mortgage loans. the reason for that is that two of the three major ratings agencies have kept the united states at aaa status. the administration's also hoping that few investors will be

forced to divest by investor guidelines. but we've seen the psyche of this market worldwide is fragile. there are troubles in europe, why the g-7 finance ministers are scrambling to have a meeting and how the markets react is unpredictable. if they get spooked, it could raise interest rates and create further headwinds for this american economy and underscores the argument that president obama made last week after that deal was passed which is that we don't have a problem with u.s. credit. we have a problem with the u.s. political system, standard and poor's pointed to those problems in making this downgrade. >> john har word. lots more from the white house today. leaders on capitol hill are assigning blame for the downgrade and not surprisingly pointing fingers across the aisle. john boehner said this should be a wake-up call for democrats to get serious about cutting spending and taking on entitlements. boehner said this decision by the s&p is the latest consequence of the out of control spending that's taken

place in washington for decades. the spending binge has resulted in economic uncertainty. harry reid stresses the government cannot only focus on spending cuts saying the action reaffirms the need for a balanced approach to deficit reductions that combines spending cuts with revenue raising measures like closing taxpayer-funded giveaways to billionaires, oil companies and corporate jet owners. meanwhile, congressman barney frank had a different target for his frustration. the leading democrat on the house financial services committee slammed the credibility of standard & poor's. he spoke on the rachel maddow show last night. >> the question is, and this is the only question relevant it seems to me if you're going to invest. is the government going to default or not. there was zero chance of defaulting by the u.s. government. this past week showed that, i believe. they don't like the -- i think for some reason standard & poor's is trying to recover a reputation which is

justifiably in shreds. literally, they are as responsible for the financial crisis as anybody else with their terrible record, and again, i want to stress, they have two fundamental directions. they overconsistently overvalued private debt and undervalued public debt, the question of default -- well, they talk about the american political process. that's not a relevant criteria. the criteria is are you going to default. by the way, even if there was a very short-term failure to pay for a day or two, the question everybody would have gotten their money. this is just a political judgment. >> congressman frank added that standard & poor's seriously not something rational people should do. what does all this mean? joining me, annie loury. good morning to you. we were talking about this. we were on last weekend and talking about the possibility of this happening. surprise or not? >> it wasn't terribly

surprising. all the way back in april, s&p had warned they had put the u.s. on watch, they were looking for a downgrade. in recent weeks, it seemed likelier they were going to do this. it wasn't entirely clear till yesterday when news leaked. >> okay. now this is just s&p's. we have moody's and fitch's which stayed with the aaa credit rating. >> exactly. >> what does that mean? are we only one-third worse off than we were before? >> the world investors are lending to the united states for historically cheap rates. for ten years, the u.s. can borrow money at 2.47% as of yesterday. the world's investors are not betting that the united states is ever going to default on debt. if you look at what s&p said in its note, they were somewhat criticizing the u.s. fiscal situation and the u.s. political situation. i don't think they were any closer to default. >> is that traditional? do they weigh in on the

political actions and what policies bring about in terms of an economic stability or lack thereof? i mean, is that normal for them to do? >> sure, when is they've rated the debt of other countries, they'll cite political concerns when talking about the fiscal situation since obviously, congress here is controlling the united states, its fiscal policy and if they don't have their act together, that is an absolute risk. so that's not unusual. and they do. they cite political concerns in this note, not just monetary concerns. >> so everyone's sitting at home thinking how is this going to affect my wallet. how does this? >> it's kind of strange about this, this probably isn't going to move the rates for treasuries very much. you have an enormous sophisticated market of bond investors determining the u.s. rates. it could impact state and local debt, a lot of other types of debt. it's not clear how that's going to shake out. for local governments, this could mean higher borrowing costs which will really hurt the

recovery. >> the jobs number yesterday, 170,000 added. that was better than expected. does that do anything to help it the overall picture or it's just really not so much? ? >> in the last week since we talked, investors have gotten much more worried about the united states' economic prospects in the next six months to a year. i think this helped to somewhat calm the confusion and concern and the immediate worries that we're headed into a double dip recession. it was better than expected so it at least seemed to back us off a brink. >> i'm looking at an article you wrote about the old recession ril feeling there. i mean, what is the likelihood that we are officially heading for the double dip? >> larry summers, the former treasury secretary, former economic adviser to obama says one in three. other folks are saying something more like one in two. other folks are saying something more like one in ten still. it's not clear. we have to get a few more months of data. it could happen we dip into

recession quickly in the late spring and came back out of it. to a certain extent, this is a judgment call comong economists. >> annie, thanks for breaking it down for us. republican presidential candidates are placing the blame for the downgrade squarely on president obama's shoulders. >> president obama has destroyed the credit rating of the united states through his failed economic policies and his inability to control government spending by raising the debt ceiling. >> it's a reflection of the failed leadership of president obama. he really is inept when it comes to the economy. >> now, gop candidate jon huntsman blamed the downgrade on out of control spending and a lack of leadership in washington. he says for far tore long we have let reckless government spending go unchecked and the cancer russ debt affecting our nation has spread. what worries you most about the credit downgrade? my handle is @alex witt.

that question, we'll be looking for your answer shortly. judgment day in the big easy. a verdict in the case of five new orleans police officers accused of covering up a deadly post katrina shooting on a bridge. >> excessive heat war, today across the southeast with no relief in sight. a live recover the for you and more on the credit downgrade. what impact will it have on you and me? brian shack man joins me short lit to answer that question here on msnbc saturday. i love that my daughter's part fish.

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well, wall street analysts predict the first downgrade of america's sterling credit rating could be very costly.

government may face an extra $100 billion in interest payments annually. putting that in perspective, the war in afghanistan costs $120 billion a year. the credit downgrade comes on the heels of the friday job report. a slight drop in the unemployment rate. the jobless rate dipped from 9.2 to 9.1% with employers adding 117,000 jobs last month, but analysts say this latest report paints a picture of a jobs market with no clear direction, nor momentum. in fact, there are still more than 20 million american who's cannot find full-time work. for many, the search is both frustrating and agonizing. >> you kind of grow up thinking if you're a good person and you work hard and you're honest, that thing will just work out. >> i need a job today. >> well, joining me live analyst vera gibbons. good morning to you. the sentiments from those two ladies, we were hearing it over and over again. >> it's so discouraging to see

because people have not worked for such a long time. the average length is over 40 weeks. that last woman i saw has been out of work for a year. it's very discouraging. >> when you look at the latest job numbers it, what's the take away for consumers? 117,000 jobs added. we've dropped .1 in the unemployment rate. >> the numbers came in bigger than expected. the rate dropped a little bit because people stopped looking. i think what's particularly troublesome for consumers for those looking for work is that announced job cuts actually rose in july, up 60%. so they're now at a 16-month high. before it was companies simply not hiring. now they're actually firing and firing across the board in any number of industries from defense to retail to pharmaceuticals. so you see those kinds of numbers and you think why get up in the morning? no place to go. no jobs. i think consumers are definitely really feeling the pain. >> you know, here's something. it would appear that when the going gets tough, the tough go

shopping. because you have mall sales up. >> those were up in july. here's the reason. the clearance sales going on on the spring merchandise, the summer merchandise, very good deals. consumers still do love a bargain, despite the fact that sentiment is down. it's at the lowest level it's been in something like over two years, at least it was in july. we did go to the malls in part because of deals and because july was a very, very hot month. one of the hottest julys we've seen any 50 years. didn't go to the beach. didn't stay in our apartments. didn we went to a mall and shopped. >> we talk about back to school sales. what's the outlook for that? >> i think sales will probably come in flat at best. consumers are up against a number of headwinds. the anxiety level has increased. consumers were feeling optimistic at the beginning of the year and spending more freely. now i think we'll go back into retreat mode a little bit. a little more cautious given all

sorts of new headwinds. the downgrade doesn't help. the washington shenanigans doesn't help the consumer. retailers will have to brace for another challenging season. it's the second most important right next to the holiday season. lower your expectations i'd say. >> vera gibbons, thanks. the mother of a teenager shot and killed on a new orleans bridge after hurricane katrina says she is relieved by the guilty verdicts of five police officers involved. all five were convicted of covering up the shootings that killed two people. four of the officers were also convicted of civil rights violations and face a possible life behind bars when sentenced in december. it is so not letting up. heat warnings are in effect across the south this weekend and millions are in the midst of the deadliest heat wave in years. there is no relief in sight apparently. let's head over to nbc's than

trung in atlanta. >> it feels quite sticky right now and probably going to get worse later this afternoon. this heat wave is record breaking. from july till now, more than 3,000 high temperature records have been shattered. lives have been lost, crops as well because of the punishing heat. the heat wave is brutal. >> i'm not used to like this hot but i'm used to hot. >> unrelenting and becoming increasingly deadly. across the country, the number of heat-related deaths is rising. in maryland, 21 deaths so far, 15 in oklahoma and 11 in texas with more cases expected. one of the latest victims, 79-year-old dolores grissom who died from heat exhaustion after thieves stole the air-conditioner from her home. >> just walking around. >> elderly are especially vulnerable, prompting door to door safety checks in some cities. but even the young are not immune. two georgia high school football players died this week following

teamworkouts. many schools are now revising practice schedules opting for sessions early in the morning or later in the evening. hydration is critical. >> every time we go for 15 minutes or so, we make sure they hydrate, even if they don't feel like drinking we tell them to get over there and get water. >> water is in short supply in texas where parts of the drought stricken state have endured more than 60 consecutive days of triple digit tempetures. at the other end of the weather spectrum, too much water. heavy bands of rain yesterday triggered a flash flood in charlotte. at least one person was killed. rescuers used boats to safely evacuate young children stranded by the water. flooding and drought, extremes during a scorching summer. and one of the georgia high school football players who died this week will be laid to rest today. as for cooler weather, it doesn't look like it's coming anytime soon in places like dallas and oklahoma city, they're expecting triple digit heat well into next week. >> thank, thanh, find some ac,

my friend. credit crisis. the s&p downgrades the u.s. credit after the markets close and brian shactman weighs in on how wall street may react on monday. a sad and deadly day for u.s. troops in afghanistan. there have been nato troops killed in a helicopter crash. whether there are americans among them, they'll find out. the latest on the breaking news and a live report from kabul straight ahead. roadband experiee to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. captain. unidentified object. it's a cascade complete pac. the best of cascade powder and gel combined in one vessel.

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we began with a deal on raising the debt ceiling and ended with the downgrade of the u.s. credit rating. standard & poor's lowered its rating from aaa to aa plus, the first time it has happened in american history. joining me now, anchor brian shactman. first of all, good morning to you or is it a good morning? i'm curious how big a deal this is for the average american. >> you said it, alex. we've never had it happen. we don't exactly know. there's a couple of factors involved here. s&p is one of three major credit rating agencies.

the other two did not do this. it's a political thing. the government's pushing back and saying they were over by $2 trillion on this one and pushing back hard. the bottom line is, it's about washington, about how they've handled this debt issue and how they're going to handle it in the future. there's not a lot of faith according to s&p they will be able to handle it. u.s. government bonds and the currency of the united states has long been considered one of the safest investment on the planet. according to s&p, not the entire planet, s&p, canada, united kingdom, germany, france are more secure investments than the united states. asian markets won't wait till monday to see what the reaction is. they open sunday night. they have a special on cnbc, by the way. >> really? >> but you will know. if treasuries sell off quickly, rates could go up quickly. the key for americans is how does that affect them. will their mortgage rates go up, credit card rates go up. that is the key. >> getting back to the s&p being irresponsible with its numbers,

i'm sure you heard a colorful commentary from barney frank last night. he basically called them all incompetents doing that job there. since it's only one of three, my question is, when the u.s. goes about looking for money to borrow, can it say, look to moody's, look at fitch's. how much does anybody, say, the s&p gave us that one. >> it's about the market reaction. if people are selling these treasury bonds, the rate is going to go up because they need to entice people to buy them. the market will dictate them. it won't be about a conversation, it will be about sentiment and confidence in it. that's where it's a little bit scary. the rating agencies in 2008 and 2009 were blamed for giving aaa ratings to horrible investments. so the credibility of the agencies is at stake. at present, they're still valued and used. we said they needed to be

tougher on investments and now they're being tough. i'm not supporting s&p or barney frank and the white house argument. you have to factor in both because their credibility is at issue. they're saying the u.s. is not the safest investment on the planet right now. >> you teased it. do it full on here. cnbc does have a special sunday night looking at the global impact. >> 9:00 p.m., bill griffeth and maria bartiromo. the asian markets will be open. they were going to do this before the s&p. we saw last week 500 points off the dow on thursday. the s&p last week lost 7%. people talk about wall street versus main veet. this is over a trillion dollars in ten days was lost in the s&p, 401(k)s, this is people's money, your money, my money. and people need to know, is this as scary as 2008 in the truth is, the people i talk to said it's not quite like that but it doesn't mean it's not a big concern. >> we can tune in to cnbc. thanks so much for stopping by, brian. we all know summer is

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at one of our free paint workshops. 32 past the hour as we update you on breaking news out of afghanistan where 31 nato troops and seven afghan soldiers are dead after a nato helicopter crashed during an overnight operation just west of kabul. let's go now to atia in kabul with the latest for us. with a good morning to you, do we know that this helicopter was shot down or may it have just crashed? >> good morning, alex. that's the big question at the moment. we're not hearing anything from u.s. military or officials here in afghanistan. what we are hearing is from hamid karzai who in a statement offered condolences to president barack obama and the loved ones who were killed in this helicopter crash as he put it. he said that 31 u.s. special forces are killed in the attack as well as seven afghan commandos. the taliban have claimed

responsibility. they're also speaking up in a statement, they say that the helicopter was actually attacking one of their compounds in wardak province southwest of the capital of kabul. they say this compound actually was an area where there are taliban fighters operated from. they said as soon as the helicopter started approaching their area, they fired a rocket at this helicopter and that's what made the helicopter crash and kill the americans and the afghans on board. obviously, this is taliban claims. we're still waiting to hear from the u.s. military and isaf officials to see what their side of the story is. we know they are currently investigating what happened. >> nbc's atia abawi with the latest on this story. thank you so much for that. let's go back to the downgrade to the u.s. credit rating. standard & poor's says the u.s. no longer deserves a aaa rating in part because of the big fight in washington over the debt

limit. the treasury is firing back, accusing the agency of basing its decision on a $2 trillion error. couldn't get any bigger than that, right? chief washington correspondent john harwood is live at the white house for us. john, with a good morning to you. okay. treasury department's got their dukes up. they didn't take this lying down. they're taking issue with all the calculations that led to this? >> what they're saying is that standard & poor's in assessing the cost of u.s. discretionary spending overstated it by $2 trillion because of a confusion about which baseline. it's sort of a bunch of accounting mumbo jumbo, but the bottom line is they said they got their numbers wrong. instead of avoiding the downgrade, standard & poor's pointed to politics basically said the u.s. political system is dysfunctional. in defense of standard & poor's president obama has made the same point. he said our problem isn't that our credit isn't aaa. but our political system isn't aaa. standard & poor's said yes,

that's right, that's why we don't think you can solve your debt and deficit problems in the medium term. >> basically we have all that fighting, these weeks of drawing it out and all of the issues back and forth and the s&p just ends up not being pleased with our debt deal? >> exactly right. now, the s&p had set a target. they said if we don't decrease deficits over ten years by $4 trillion, they were going to downgrade. now, moody's and fitch, the other two major rating agencies didn't set that target. they've said our credit is still aaa. that's why the administration can still hope the consequences of this in actual economic terms for the interest rates that you and i pay on homes and cars is going to be quite limited. but symbolically, still a blow. and the administration has taken an embarrassment here because it happened on their watch. republicans because they raised the stakes for a major deficit reduction deal and then blocked it by resisting the tax increases an that they needed

while they share power with democrats to make that deal. so everybody's got egg on their face right now. >> so what does washington do now about this? we talk about how the obama administration is pushing back and challenging the calculations. is that the best they can do with this? i mean, are there other tactics they can take to try to get s&p to put it back up to aaa? >> the good news and bad news, alex, is that the deficit reduction deal that was struck to raise the debt ceiling initiates a process within two weeks of a special committee in congress to try to go back at it, get another trillion and a half in deficit reduction. this is where democrats say we've got to have a balanced deal with spending cuts and tax increases. republicans are continuing to say, we're not going to accept any tax increases. that's really the question is whether a deal can be struck between those two and that committee by the end of the year. if not, you're going to have huge indiscriminate cuts in both defense and domestic programs, and that would surely cause

rating agencies to have a more negative view of the united states than they do already. >> okay. it's been a long 24 hours for you. you were all over the airwaves last night and all over our morning today. thanks, john. >> we're trying to put the credit downgrade in perspective this morning. jared bernstein, also an msnbc contributor discussed the credit downgrade last night with rachel maddow. >> first of all, they're one of three and it's easy to just think, oh, my goodness, the u.s. debt has been downgraded end of story. no, as long as the other two have us at aaa which they do and an serred they'll keep at least for a while, there are lots of things that probably don't happen. if all three downgraded at the same time, then lots of pension funds, for example, would automatically have to divest. they would have to get rid of their treasury holdings. >> because they have rules that say you can only invest in aaa. >> bingo. those rules don't necessarily apply. in most cases they don't when it's one of the three takes us

down that one notch. when s&p and some of the others threatened to put us on a negative watch, if we had had that discussion then, i would have said a couple weeks ago, this is a silly discussion. there's a pin prick of reason in this. we have prominent republicans, mitch mcconnell, representative paul ryan, some of the most prominent republicans are saying from now on, what just happened with the debt ceiling should be a template for every other debt ceiling increase we have. and that we should have a dollar for dollar rule, every dollar of debt ceiling increase means a dollar of spending cuts. they want to enshrine this functionality in our system. i can see where s&p would really raise an eyebrow. now, we are still a completely reliable borrower, the united states government, and so the downgrade was wrong. the math was ridiculous, all that. but that one point maintains. historically, when we've had

downgrades not on our country, when we've seen downgrades in other advanced economies that were somewhat analogous to this, japan had one, nothing really happened. by nothing really happened, i mean maybe some interest rates could go up a little bit, investors invis on something called a risk premium, that is they want a little bit of higher interest rate if they're going to lend you money. look at it this way. let's say that some interest rates somewhere goes up by 10 basis points. that's .1 of 1%. that's $10 billion more on u.s. government debt. that's a $10 billion increase on our deficit. so the this is playing with fire. let's be clear about that. >> and that was jared bernstein on the rachel maddow show last night. you can see her weeknights at 9:00 eastern right here. the credit downgrade is becoming a hot button issue on the campaign trail. the republican candidates for president are not holding back. >> this is a real blow to the american economy, to our status

in the world, and the president has to be held accountable for it. he did not provide leadership. >> the congress first job and the president's first job is to focus on the economy because unless we start growing again and start employing people again, we can't solve these problems. >> mitt romney has released a statement saying standard an & poor's downgrade is a deeply troubling indicator of our country's decline under president obama. what worries you most about the credit downgrade? i'm on twitter, my handle is @alex witt. what worries you most about the credit downgrade? it's been a midsummer's nightmare for so many americans trying to cope with record heat. just how hot has it been? we'll open the record books to find out next on msnbc saturday. ♪

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says more than 9,000 records were either broken or tied in july and that number is expected to rise. joining me now is jason salmon, the chief meteorologist for the "washington post's" capital weather gang. jason, with a good morning to you, we have heard that are some parts of the south may not get a break from this heat wave till the end of this month? have you heard that, as well? do you believe that to be true? and if so, why are we experiencing such a hot summer? >> i this i that's right. i think portions of the south central u.s., texas, oklahoma, they may not see a break in the heat till the end of august. and the reason for the relentless nature of the heat, we've had a huge expansive area of high pressure over the deep south and the south central u.s. it's expanded as far as north as the northern plains and as far as northeast at the coastal maine. and the, this heat dome has been enhanced in a sense by the exceptional drought conditions over texas and oklahoma. that many dry soil, it heats up very quickly and its an a vicious cycle.

in addition to that, the heat wave has been enhanced by the fact that greenhouse gases are increasing in the atmosphere to levels we haven't seen in hundreds of thousands of years. that's likely also enhancing the heat. >> well, should we be concerned that we are breaking records set in the 1800s? >> i think so. i mean, i think one of the reasons we're seeing so many records broken is the fact that heat islands, that is cities have been heating up as a result of the fact they've been growing and expanding. there is more concrete, more asphalt. so you have more heat absorbing materials in cities. in a sense, it's easier to break records now than it was in the late 1800s and early 1900s. i also think the fact that greenhouse gas concentrations have increased so dramatically is also playing a role. u.s. climate assessments, international assessments project there are going to be increases in the intensity, duration and frequency of heat waves moving into the future. >> jason, look, this has been an epic summer in terms of heat. do you think that this is a

trend? can we expect this -- when you look at how the climactic changes and the duration of a heat wave like this or the tendency, can we expect this next summer again? >> well, each successive summer won't necessarily be warmer than the previous. however, the deck is stacked for more extreme hot summers. longer in duration, more intense. so more 90 degree days, more 100 degree days. hotter nights, more heat more often. >> you know you hear about if you look back to the beginning of time and the planet and it goes through changes and stuff. i mean, is this planet having trouble lasting in the way we know and the way we need it to? >> well, i think there are a lot of concerns about the rate and the magnitude of the warming trend we've observed over the last 100 years and with greenhouse gases continuing to increase in the atmosphere, we need to find ways to reduce the risk of these unwelcome changes such as more intense heat waves

about i reducing greenhouse gas emissions and also adapting to the changes under way. >> yeah. someone's got to have a chat with mother nature apparently. jason sam now, thank you very much. it may be an invasion on american soil that is happening right under our noses. we may not even realize it. coming up, is the usa a victim of cyberwarfare? you're watching msnbc saturday. g and my itchy eyes took refuge from the dust in here and the pollen outside. but with 24-hour zyrtec®, i get prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. it's the brand allergists recommend most. ♪ lily and i are back on the road again. where we belong. with zyrtec®, i can love the air®. that i put on my children's plate. that's why we use all-white meat, breading that is whole grain with omega-3 and no preservatives. it is my goal to make the highest quality, best-tasting nugget on the market.

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well, investors closely watching the fallout from the u.s. credit downgrade. the american stock exchange will have the weekend to absorb this news, but asian markets will begin reacting tomorrow afternoon. now, keep in mind while standard & poor's downgraded the u.s. credit rating, the two other rating agencies, moody's and fitch have maintained the platinum rating of triple-a. we'll have a lot more reaction and analysis from washington on this historic downgrade. meantime, new concerns this morning about computer security. after more than 70 corporations and government organizations worldwide were targeted this

week by a cyber spy ring. the ring has been dubbed operation shady rat. it was uncovered by a u.s. security firm, and the targets included the united nations, the u.s. department of energy, and the associated press. cyber security experts said the intrusions may have originated in china. joining me now is daniel lyons. good morning to you. >> hi, alex. >> this has been called the beggest transfer the wealth in terms of intellectual property in history. that is saying something. do you agree with that? was it that big, and if so, what is it the hackers are looking for? >> well, if it's not the biggest, it's certainly one of them, and i think what you have to do is look at all of these separate attacks as one thing. really what the picture we're seeing now is that there's a persistent and advanced attack on virtually everything, and it's happening all the time. we're basically being robbed. what they're looking for are technology secrets, defense

contractor secrets, plans for submarines, avionics. basically everything. it's intellectual capital, and it's just being drained out of our country. >> among the things we said were targeted, the u.s. department of energy. the power grids most of them are on-line right now. could this mean that someone could cyber attack the power grids and put us in the dark? >> yeah, absolutely. yeah. joel brenner, the former head of counter intelligence has a terrifying book called "america the vulnerable." there's a whole chapter devoted to the power grids. his point is in order to make life easier for the praerts of the power grids, we have put everything on-line, because you can maintain things remotely, that kind of thing, but what it also does is milwaukee it very, very vulnerable, and there have been experiments done shown how easy it would be to blow up part of the grid. the chinese, a nation state, are not iffing to do this wrrn they want to keep this quiet and keep coming in quietly unnoticed and stealing stuff. the real risk is somebody like an al qaeda. you know, a terrorist

organization that you can't really fight back against because they have nothing to lose. brenner thinks that it's actually very, very possible and even likely that this is going to happen. >> okay. now, wait a minute. you said specifically chinese, and this is attributable in your article. chinese fingerprints all over that. >> right. >> what that is? how do we know? >> right. macca fee, the security company that discovered shady rat won't say where the attacks originated, but the other experts reading this and parsing it all are pointing to the chinese. a couple of things. one is attacks happened all over the world except none in china. the other one is that a lot of the targets were organizations that were of interest to the cheenz. for example, the taiwan government and the international olympic committee in the months leading up the to beijing olympics and a lot of other olympic committees. suddenly there was all kinds of interest in this command and control server and all these olympic committees before the olympics in china. there are signs and hints looking at shadows on the wall.

people are figuring that this is china. >> well, presumably, you've got to know who is doing the targeting before you can push back, but my question, can they push back to this directive, i mean, this group from china, wherever it is they're doing it, or in general what can we do to make ourselves safer from this? >> well, there's a two-prong there. richard clark, who is the former healed of intelligence and cyber security in the u.s., thinks we should start retaliating. we trace the attack back and we sent malware down the pike and blow up their servers. >> is there neglect wrong with that, by the way, dan? >> a lot of other people think that would be pretty nuts, right? that it would be foolish to do that. that we would just risk escalating the whole thing and these attacks are so hard to attribute that it's very hard to say with 100% certainty who did it. that's what makes this stuff so sneaky and so difficult and so hard to trace down. it's very hard to pin down with certainty who is doing this. >> it is a fascinating article.

it's in "daily beast" and "newsweek." thank you for writing it and coming on us w us. >> you're welcome, alex. we have yet to hear from the white house about the s&p credit rating downgrade, but we'll have more on the potential impact this downgrade may have on the economy and the battle for the white house as well as your wallets. stay with us because you're watching msnbc saturday. discover customersl are getting five percent cashback bonus at the pump... and at many of the places their summer plans take them.

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a deadly day in afghanistan. nato troops are killed in a helicopter crash. we are awaiting confirmation from the pentagon. the gold standard no more. standard & poor's down grades the u.s. credit rating for the first ever. talk about a crime family. a manhunt is underway for three siblings suspected in a two-state crime spree. good morning. i'm alex witt. welcome to msnbc saturday. we're approaching 8:00 a.m. on the eastern, 5:00 a.m. out west, and we begin with breaking news out of afghanistan. 31 troops and seven afghan soldiers are dead after a