from hot air ballooning to white water rafting, small business in america takes many forms. we travel around the country and we celebrate a new season of small business lessons, coming up next in your business. small businesses are revitalizing the economy.

hi there, everyone, i'm jj ramberg and welcome to a special edition of "your business." today we celebrate the start of our sixth year giving you tips and advice to help your business grow. as a small business owner myself, i've learned so many great lessons, by getting involved in the issues and operations of some great american small businesses. in west virginia, i picked up a paddle to find out how three once-competing whitewater rafting companies merged their companyings and their cultures. >> once upon a time in the wild and wonderful mountains of west virginia, there were three river rafting companies, class six river runners, mountain river tours and rivermen. they had all started in the

1970s and each had their very own personality. they were friendly competitors and they all loved running the business they were running. so you can only imagine what it was like when the owners of these companies were approached about merging their operations into one. >> when paul first called me, i really wasn't interested. i actually said no. we had a good gig going. we were growing, we were making money, not a lot, but we were paying our bills. >> that's brian campbell, the founder of rivermen. the paul he's referring to is a former financial guy who spent his weekends as a river guide for class six. a few years ago, paul saw an opportunity to change his job, his lifestyle and become the ceo of a new or sort of new company. >> first thing i realized is that in this industry, they were very profitable at one time and because of overcapacity, price cutting, and a little bit of decline in revenue due to users, that they weren't nearly as profitable. and that to make this work i was going to have to do merge at

least two, if not three together. >> and that's how the idea for the lansing west virginia-based adventures on the gorge was born. paul approached all three company owners, everyone involved sensed that the deal wouldn't be a simple one. >> i did see some challenges, because we were competitors for sure. and that relationship, we had to work on. >> but soon enough, paul was able to convince them that the key to their collective survival was joining forces. >> there's a point in a family business where the family is necessary for its survival. there's a point in the business, where the business outgrows the family and the rivermen were at that point. >> so they came to an agreement. got a team of investors and each founding owner maintained partial ownership in the new company with paul serving as the ceo. while the founding companies all fall under the adventures on the gorge umbrella, the brands themselves live on independently. >> when i walk around this campus here, i still see logos for all three companies.

why do that? it seems more expensive and maybe a bit confusing for your company. >> the loyalty is to brand. and in lots of cases, the companies have been around for 30-plus years. when you say the rivermen or class six, they automatically become emotional and tied to that brand. >> but adventures on the gorge means nothing to them. >> adventures on the gorge means nothing to them and that's the tricky part. >> many employee who is live through the merger are still quite loyal to the individual brands. >> i found a lot of the back room operations, housekeeping, accounting, maintenance, even reservations staff, the office staff were easy to merge. the most difficult has been the guides. >> because they were the personalities and competitors, really. >> they're competitors and anybody that is in charge of eight people for a day, getting them down a river safely has got to have an ego. and some of them have very large egos. >> paul had another challenge besides merging the

personalities of the companies. with the investments he raised, he wanted to do something none of the original three companies had done before. >> our strategy is very simple. we need people to stay longer and do more things. >> get climbing and rapelling class. you can do mountain bike tours, you can do horseback tours, you can do atv tours. the zip lines have been the biggest product we've expanded into. we now have two zip line courses. >> with all the new activities and a bunch of new accommodat n accommodations, the adventures on the gorge was turned into a true, all-inclusive destination. >> the future was a resort. the future was more restaurants and a variety of scenarios. >> sometimes radical change needs to happen. it has made us much more profitable. it has made us a much stronger

company. we've been able to reinvest in things. >> after three years, paul says he's incredibly proud of what they've been able to accomplish in both merging cultures and building out the company. but he says they're nowhere near done yet. one day he hopes that these three companies will truly be one. >> as time goes on. it will take more prominence and you'll see it being on top of the main brands and as time goes on. you'll see the flip-flop going on. and it's our goal that adventures on the gorge will be the primary brand that is associated with the adventure resort. >> we always talk on this program of the challenge of making your product or service stand out from the rest. i travelled to california's beautiful napa valley where i took to the skies to find out how a hot air balloon company was able to rise above the competition.

look up in the sky on any clear morning in california's napa valley. and this is what you see. hot air balloons flying high above. dotting the sky with their colorful canvass. to anyone on the ground, these balloons and the rides taken in them seem indistinguishable. but the pilots and the owners know exactly who is who. >> those are some of the balloons, one we call bat d and one is napa valley balloons. >> nielson rodgers and his wife carol anne founded their company above the west in 1979 and started worksing at it full time soon after. >> i used to have a real job. after the merger and acquisition of either you pay too much or you know too much, you get fired. >> this he began, there wasn't much competition, only one other company. today there are six. and any tourist looking to book a ride can find a bunch of flyers that frankly don't look that different from each other.

>> carol anne says she works very hard at making above the west stand out 679. >> i actually think that's one of the hardest things to do from a marketing point of view. >> early on, the rodgers decided they were not going to compete on price, that ha was just a losing battle. >> we realized that if we lowered our price $5, they would lower theirs 5. >> the problem with having price being the only think that differentiates you is that there will always be someone who is less expensive than you are. >> today they are the most expensive company in the area. they charge one flat, nonnegotiable rate, doing things a bit differently from some of the competition. >> everyone is able to sort of move up right under us with their stated price, but then they discount under that to get more people. >> they say that their pricing may turn off some people. but those aren't the customers they're after. >> the passengers that come with us, i think they are more interested in value than in

price. >> because of the high prices, they're able to offer a more customized experience, taking up fewer passengers, only doing one trip per balloon a day. which limits waiting time. things that indear them to other luxury services around the area. shirley quick is the manager of a high-end hotel nearby. >> we feel confident when we recommend nielson and carol anne's company that they're going to get the same level of service they would get from us. >> all of these choices, the pricing, the limited rides, have also limited the rodgers' ability to grow the company. >> were we to decide to get really big, we would have to change what we do. we are the size we are because we want to be size we are. we think that's the best way to offer a really excellent blending experience to our passengers. >> that said, carol anne admits there are times she and nielson look across the sky and have a moment of wondering. >> sometimes you do look at

someone else who may be is flying more people and you think, well, gosh, you know, maybe we should just do what they do. >> but then she says, she comes back to her senses. >> you have to think long-term. because there's a lot of short-term marketing strategies that could change things for you. a little bit but then have consequences for you in the long run. >> and knowing that you have a strategy that you're going to stick to gives you time to focus on what this is really all about. >> i enjoy it. i enjoy it. >> when i walked into diane's cleveland-based store and met her, my first impression is that this woman is a spitfire. in part by appealing to an underserved demographic. >> your pump-action shotguns

make a very distinct noise. your burglars and your criminals, they all know that noise. the chances of them walking away from that is another story. >> there's no question about who's in charge here. but for some customers of this cuyahoga county, ohio gun shop. diane can be a bit of a surprise. >> i shock people, you know, from time to time, because i am a woman that knows about guns. >> diane not only knows about guns, she buys them, sells them and teaches people to use them. >> i want you to go ahead and put your finger on the trigger. >> that's good trigger control. >> she's one of a small number of female gun store operators in the country. >> believe it or not, there's more than you think. it's just they're more behind the scenes. where i'm out front here most of the gun shops -- they're family businesses. the men are the out-front. but the women are in the back

running it. >> diane, who runs the whole show at stonewall gun shop from stock room to show room. never planned to have a career dealing in firearms, it was her husband who got her into it. >> i had more experience with firearms, i really didn't know anything about firearms. >> tell me about the first time you shot a gun. >> well, let's see, the flame went out that way, the casing went out that way. hit me in the head. i set the gun down and said, this is not for me. i just, i wasn't just -- it was just totally freaked me out. >> diane didn't stay freaked out for long. in fact she discovered she has a knack for the business. and a taste for the sport. >> it's like with anything that any woman gets into. if you're going to run any type of business, you've got to know what you're doing. you got to know your product. you've got to be able to sell it. >> you're going to push out, okay. put the magazine in.

and i'm going to release the slide. and when you're ready, go ahead and fire. >> i can tell you, firsthand, she certainly knows what she's doing when it comes to operating firearms. >> drop your slide. that thumb up. all right. okay, lean forward. i told you you're going to get it, okay. >> after 17 years in the business, she rarely takes her eye off the target. >> i don't want to say i'm meticulous, because i'm not. but i'm very detailed when it comes to buying and i have to laugh when i go to the different shows, my reps, you know, they'll say, can i help? and i say, yeah, stay out of my way. >> staying out of her way has certainly benefitted the shop's investors. >> when we took over the old owners were doing about $300,000 a year. we're at over $2 million.

>> some of the increase in profit comes from cultivating a whole new class of customers. women. >> the majority of women you know, do feel more comfortable talking to another woman about firearms. >> do you attract more female customers? >> i believe yes we do. but it's not only just because i'm here. it's because my guys. i have a great staff here. they have their days when i would like to wring their necks. but-day have a great staff. and they listen to the women. >> theresa, diane's number two in the stonewall back office, agrees. >> every day you see more and more women coming in. you see whole families coming in. not, it's a lot different than what it was when i started here two years ago. >> you're going to shoot together? >> yes. >> you need anything? >> a box of shells. >> a box of shells, .38 specials. >> any time you add another

customer demographics to your industry you're going to make more money because you're going to get more clientele. >> bringing in more women isn't the only reason her store has thrived. she credits savvy investors. >> i got a lot of different guns here and all the different calibers. >> this is how you run your company. i feel like you do not take no for an answer, you will bargain somebody down. >> most of the time, yeah. >> after 17 years, diane may be full of brafed ao, but she still remembers how overwhelming it felt to start up a business from scratch. >> when i came in, knowing nothing about it, i, literally got down on my hands and knees and gave the business to the lord and said -- you got to walk me through this, because i don't know what i'm doing. and he has been you know, my support, my wings all the way

through. >> still ahead, we continue to celebrate the start of our sixth season with how a colorado a dog-sledding company had to start an ancillary business in order to survive. and i'm up to my gills in tuna as i flounder around at the fulton fish market to learn how to negotiate. this is my band from the 80's, looker. hair and mascara, a lethal combo. i'm jon haber of alto music. my business is all about getting music into people's hands. and the plum card from american express open helps me do that. you name it, i can buy it. and the savings that we get from the early pay discount has given us money to reinvest back into our business and help quadruple our floor space. how can the plum card's trade terms

get your business booming? booming is putting more music in more people's hands. as a small business owner i'm always looking for that competitive advantage. here at "your business" we know that's why you watch us, to give you actionable advice that will help you do the same. one of the most important skills to have is the ability to negotiate with customers, clients and vendors. and while some people of course are natural-born negotiators, many of us aren't. it is tricky, it can get uncomfortable and it can get contentious, but it's something

you can learn how to do better. so i went to new york city's fulton fish market, where haggling over the price of fish is considered a fine art. >> i'm coming in here, i admittedly know very little about fish. i'm here with a mission, because i have to buy some fish. what would i do? >> there are four things, number one, you must know your product. whether it's fish or stocks, you have to know the kind of commodities that you're dealing in. in this case, you have to know the quality, the size, the species. you can't look at a red snapper and say how much is that bluefish. that's not a good thing. >> because they will take you for something that doesn't know what they're talking about. >> someone who just fell off a banana boat. >> do your research. >> you have to know yourself. you have to exude confidence. you have to be firm when you can and not firm when you need to be. >> that's a good negotiator.

>> and the third thing you have to do is know the person that you're buying from. you have to know if he's has a lot of product, he's got a little product. if he's sit ogen a lot, and you know he's sitting 0en a lot, he's probably going to be a lower price than somebody else. >> you're talking about knowing their supply, supply and demand. what about knowing them as a person? is that helpful? >> with any business, you know, the person, you know the guy on a daily basis. >> when you go into a negotiation, do you have a number in the back of your mind, that i'm willing to pay or sell at x. >> you don't want to lose money. at all costs, you want to make as much money for your company as possible. you're going to try to maintain a certain number. >> how do you decide when to be tough and when to you nice? >> you bat those hazel eyes at me. you're going to get away with it

once. twice, maybe, three times, it's not going to work. you got to depend on knowledge. you have to depend on knowledge. >> by nice, i wasn't referring to flirting. by nice i'mknowledge. >> by nice, not flirting, how do you know when you should drive a hard bargain? >> it has to cowith availability. how much product is around and how many people want it. it's supply and demand. there is a lot of supply and everybody wants it, the price stays moderate. if there is not a lot of supply and everybody wants it, the price will stay high. there is a fourth thing that i didn't mention yet. >> which is -- >> one second. you've got to try to fit in. you're not going to get anywhere dressed like that. >> okay. let me go put this on. >> love the look. >> much better. >> slipboard. no one can be a purchaser

without a clipboard. all right? >> all right. hold it close to you like this so no one can see your business. >> is there anything on this clipboard? >> absolutely not. and you have to have a pencil. know the seller. these guys are big mets fans, so i brought you a mets hat. makes you fit in. they will like you right off the bat. >> hey, there. >> bobby nice to neat you. >> know your product. >> how much for the jumbo fluke. >> jumbo for $5.50. large are $4.50. >> are these jersey or long island? >> those are from jersey. >> know yourself. >> is this your best price? >> the best price for the best quality. i have less quality for cheaper. >> no, no, no. i'm not interested in less quality. >> know how high you can go.

>> this is my first time here. i'll be coming back a lot. let's make a deal. first time, beginning of doing business, not the end. >> in good faith i'll charge you $4.40 and trust you to come back. >> i'm looking for more like $4. >> i can't do it. cannot do it. >> what if we split the difference? >> you got a deal. hopefully i'll see you next week. >> we often talk about passion fuelli inling prepreneural effo but sometimes that's not enough. i traveled to colorado to meet a man who had to build a secondary whiz to meet his primary passion. he's surprised how they know support each other. ♪ ♪ it's a great day for a dog

sled ride ♪ >> reporter: if dan could choose to do one thing for life it would be this. >> almost a spiritual connection i have with the dogs and nature. >> reporter: this is the way he's felt since 1970 when his love of dog sledding compelled him to start krabloonik, a company which takes people on dog sledding rides. opening the business was a dream come true, but he knew that the sledding wouldn't pay for itself. >> the restaurant came about as a financial support system for the dogs. >> reporter: sounds a little crazy. support one financially risky -- dog sled rides -- with another financially risky business -- a restaurant. but that's what dan did. >> i was too young and dumb to know better when i started that. and i had a lot of energy. >> reporter: energy is what it took. dan not only created the idea for the restaurant, he built it himself.

>> while the logs were put in not only by myself but help by other people along the way. a lot of love when the went into this place. >> reporter: that was part of the plan. he could have supported the sledding doing something else but that would have been somewhere else. >> the restaurant made sense because i could do it here with the dogs. >> reporter: soon after it opened the restaurant starteded doing exactly what it was meant to do -- generate cash. >> the restaurant business, when we first started it, was highly successful, especially financially. >> reporter: dan attributes the success of the restaurant to the beautiful location and the unique menu which features local game, but he says it's in large part because of the dogs. >> there is a symbiotic relationship that's magical, if you will. >> reporter: the two businesses are dependent on one another, not just financially but for marketing as well. cowl the restaurant exist

without the dogs and could the dogs exist without the restaurant? >> they could but it would be a smaller scale operation. you wouldn't run as many sleds and if we had just the restaurant we would compete in market at a different level than we do currently. >> reporter: the customers eating at the restaurant confirm the suspicion. >> all right, girls. let's go! >> we came yesterday to visit the kennels with her son and my brothers. we thought it was amazing. so we felt like we had to come back today and experience it ourselves. >> reporter: the issue with two businesses tied at the hip is when one gets bad press, so does the other. charges of mistreatment at the dog sledding side have been voiced. state licensing agencies and police investigations have consistently upheld the practices found at the company. nonetheless some people are angry. that anger is directed toward the name krabloonik.

dan believes the companies do better together than alone. >> it's an operation that works well together if we just separated one from the other that's an unknown i don't care to find out about. >> reporter: it's the combination that attracts so many guests. evo tomalich runs the viceroy. >> when you tell me the dogs go up that's the olympics of dog sleds. >> the ultimate challenge. >> reporter: he can recommend dozens of restaurants but often sends people to krabloonik for a meal and dog sled ride because they can't get it anywhere else. >> it's not manmade. it's a destination, an experience and it's genuine. >> reporter: the authenticity comes from dan's true love for the dogs. talk about the restaurant and he's all business. get him on the sled an

everything he says clearly comes from the heart. >> this is where i find true freedom. >> reporter: which is why it was gratifying for dan when in the 1990s a funny thing started to happen. >> i had to scratch my head when it started to happen. >> reporter: suddenly the dogs started supporting the restaurant. after many years of the restaurant providing cash for sledding, things turned the other way. dan said he loves the dogs best but he woul never close the restaurant. >> to separate the two businesses out or get rid of one will hurt the other. that's why we are keeping them. >> one couldn't exist without the other -- or it would exist on a different scale, one i don't care to know about. >> reporter: taking the long view of the business, dan said he knows there is a cycle. at one point the restaurant may again support the dogs. and that's okay with him, as lo long as he gets to keep doing what he does best.

>> okay, brody. good dog! >> reporter: to learn more about today's show, just click on our website. it's openforum.com/yourbusiness. you will find all of today's segments and web exclusive content with more information to help your business grow. don't forget to become a fan on facebook. we love getting your feedback. you can follow us on twitter. it's @msnbcyourbiz. next show is on trademarks. >> if you name your company something, that's your identity. >> we devote the show to explaining the dirnss between copyrights, patents and trademarx and why it is imperative to protect your intellectual property and brand. until then, remember, we make "your business" our business.

this is my band from the 80's, looker. hair and mascara, a lethal combo. i'm jon haber of alto music. i've been around music my entire life. this is the first alto music i opened when i was 24. my business is all about getting music into people's hands. letting someone discover how great music is, is just an awesome thing. and the plum card from american express open helps me do that. i use it for as much inventory as i possibly can. from picks...to maracas... to drums... to dj equipment... you name it, i can buy it. and the savings that we get from the early pay discount on those purchases has given us money to reinvest back into our business and help quadruple the size of our floor space. and the more we expand, the more space we have for instruments