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next on msnbc sunday. heroes to the family and the nation. 30 u.s. service members lost their lives in the name of freedom. america's deadliest day in afghanistan is hitting home. today we mourn and remember. good morning, everyone. i'm alex witt. it's 9:00 a.m. in the east, 6:00 a.m. out west. new reaction, new details this morning on the single deadliest day for u.s. servicemembers in afghanistan since the war started in 2001. 30 u.s. troops were killed in a helicopter crash early

yesterday. americans across this country are reacting. >> my nephew is over there. any time you hear of any mass killings, it just brings it home and makes you more nervous about what's going home. >> we have team coverage this morning for you. thanh truong is live in norfolk, virginia, for reaction there and atiya is in afghanistan. what's the latest you are hearing about the circumstances surrounding the crash? >> reporter: good morning, alex. we are still waiting to hear from u.s. and nato officials who say what went down in the district of wardak province yesterday. the most devastating loss americans have faced in afghanistan in the last ten years of war. the u.s. and nato still fairly tight-lipped. the majority of information we got since yesterday was from washington. many people are scratching their heads as to why the special forces were even down in this

district. that's usually where the tenth mountain division of the army operates. people wondering, was the pocket on its way to the -- helicopter on its way to the attack or out? we know the helicopter was low to the ground near the insurgents, gave them a good target to shoot at. obviously the taliban claimed responsibility yet for shooting the helicopter down and taking responsibility for the deaths that we saw. alex? >> how does the taliban spin this positively? this is a momentous thing for them. >> absolutely. this is a huge morale boost for the taliban. this is something they crave for every single day. as a journalist who's been here for several years, on a daily basis the taliban spokesperson -- and they do have spokesmen -- send text messages, e-mails. they have gotten so advanced that they send statements in

perfect english, trying to get the momentum out there that they are in control in different parts of afghanistan. the fact that they were able to kill 30 americans and on top of that seven elite afghan commandos, this is a huge morale boost. they will use it to their advantage if they have videos, pictures. there is no doubt they will be sharing that with various insurgent groups in afghanistan or pakistan. >> a terrible situation. all right, atia abawi in kabul. thank you very much. at home we go to thanh truong live in norfolk, virginia. this loss hit the community there especially hard. right? >> reporter: well, this is navy country down here. in nor jose canseco, hafolknorf home to many of the navy seals that train and are based here. one of those killed was aaron

vaughn from virginia beach not far from here. his grandmother released a photo yesterday of the 30-year-old navy seal and said he was a tough warrior but a gentleman. that's the sentiment for many people here that are fortunate enough to know the seals. they are a covert, secretive operation here. you can imagine that because of the operations they have been involved in, especially with the most recent one, the high profile killing of osama bin laden, they have gained a lot of attention. but that's really not the m.o. of the navy seals. they are secretive, clandestine and prefer it that way. just yesterday as we were just arriving there was a local baseball game of a minor league team. they paused to ask everyone to say a prayer an a moment of silence for the fallen soldiers here as well. that's the mood here. many people are just kind of in shock that this has happened. keep in mind the navy seals

train and are based here. some are also based in coronado, california. so from the east to the west coast there are heavy hearts. >> it was devastating. absolutely devastating. when i first heard it, i wonders if maybe it wasn't in retaliation, if they were aware of who was on board the helicopter, if it wasn't in retaliation for the assault on osama's home. >> took a while for it to sink in. when it did i felt like of i was melting. i didn't know what to say or do. i think everyone feels that way now. that's our guys. >> reporter: and we often hear the navy seals are a close-knit community. after losing 22 of their own they will have to rely on those bonds more than ever. >> indeed. thanh truong in norfolk, thank you. with the 30 u.s. troops killed in the helicopter crash, the total troops killed in afghanistan since the war began in 2001 now stands at 1,728.

president obama was certainly briefed on the crash over the phone. cnbc chief correspondent john harwood is with us. good morning to you. how does this affect the white house strategy in afghanistan in at all? >> no indications that it will. leon panetta said yesterday we'll stay the course. that calls for withdrawing the 30,000 surge troops that president obama sent in 2009 by the end of next year. president obama has been at camp david. he'll be back in the afternoon. we'll see if he has anything to say about this. he hasn't appeared before cameras this weekend. given the pressures on the president to bring the war to a conclusion after ten years, i think the likelihood is that this event -- tragic and horrendous and ironic as it was because it involved the members of the seal team 6 that were part of the greatest triumph that the u.s. had that's getting

osama bin laden this year, i think he'll stick with the policy he's been with. >> okay. moving to the economy and politics. the politicians and candidates are weighing in with new ideas for the economy now that standard & poor's downgraded the u.s. credit rating. senator kirk of illinois says the president should call congress back from the recess. bachmann says tim geithner should be fired. are there indications on how the white house plans to handle this week and the suggestions where from republicans, would they even listen? >> absolutely not. we continue know what steps congress will take, what other steps the administration will take. but i can promise you the president will not fire tim geithner. he's been doing his best to convince geithner to stay with the administration rather than go back to new york which he's wanted to do for family issues.

they will hope the market reaction isn't too adverse. i'm not sure what congress can accomplish by coming back over the recess. they are on a path now. they struck the deficit reduction deal an a special committee will be appointed to try to come up again with the grand bargain on deficit reduction this fall. that's the likely outcome. it's possible that the s&p downkbrad will put more pressure on them to come up with something big. >> john harwood at the white house. thanks. the credit downgrade could lead to tough choices for americans struggling with depressed home prices an a tough job market. >> it affects my mortgage payment, car payment. that would be bad things. >> i'm sure the 401(k) will be gone. my cpa says not to pay attention. i'm already upside down in my house. how much worse can it get?

>> it will affect my retirement savings. we are under on our mortgage as well, but i'm married, have a husband who still works and we'll just keep working. >> so what have you had to give up as a result of the roller coaster economy? talk to me on twitter. i will read your tweets throughout the morning. we're curious to see how you are faring. now to the uk where 26 police officers were injured on the streets on london. protesters looted stores, threw rox and moll t.o. cocktails that burned a double decker bus and two police cruisers. scotland yard officials say at least 200 protest rs were involved in the chaos in the hotten ham section of london. a 29-year-old father of four was killed in altercations with police. hundreds of residents back stateside in fullertoncalifornia, stage a protest outside a police station on saturday. they are angry about the beating death of a homeless man during an arrest in july that was caught on video. six fullerton police officers

were placed on administrative leave. they could face charges. kelly thomas was a 37-year-old schizophrenic man who died of severe head and neck injuries. folks are cleaning up in eastern north carolina after a tornado touched down there. the twister struck in yeureka, north carolina. >> we could hear it coming just like a train. you can hear it coming. my husband said, we can hear it coming. you could see the clouds. it was real white in front of us. around the side it turned black and turned into a funnel. >> several homes were damaged. fortunately no major injuries were reported. what's sunday going to look like? let's go to alex wallace for the answer. good morning. >> good morning, alex. we're going to watch showers and storms although the severe threat isn't as high. we have storms flaring up, particularly in the eastern half

of the country. getting closer to the northeast. a scattering of showers around the bottom area as you head southbound along interstate 95. things are quiet now. just off to the west, more showers head in that general direction. we'll be in and out of it throughout the day. same for us here throughout the ohio valley. storms around nashville. big storms toward the charleston area. heavy rainfall as well. also tracking closer to the great lakes. milwaukee socked in with heavy rain all the way down to chicago at this hour. south of all of this, we have to contend with the heat. heat advisories from the plains states back to the southeast as well. areas shaded in darker brown, that's where we have excessive heat warnings at this time. very hot conditions. heat index values. feeling like 110 into the one-teens. brutal stuff.

we'll keep the numbers high. in the north things aren't bad. certainly tolerable with temperatures in the southern plains and the upper midwest. we keep it toasty in texas. >> it cannot end soon enough. still ahead, one man's hang up at work. stick around. see why his walk on the wild side left him hanging on for dear life. also ahead, losing on the links and at the bank. tiger woods suffered another blow to his ego. and high end shoppers are back to buying for luxury. why the sudden urge to splurge? you're watching msnbc sunday. ♪ money, money, money ♪ ♪ we just wanna make the world dance ♪ ♪ forget about the price tag

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in the wake of the historic downgrade of america's credit rating a new washington post report looks at the origins of the debt ceiling battle. the article quotes eric cantor speaking to freshman congressmen in january saying i'm asking you to look at a potential increase in the debt limit as a leverage moment when the white house and president obama will have to deal with us. joining me for analysis of the debt debate and credit downgrade is eleanor clift, contributing editor for newsweek and the daily beast. good morning. >> good morning. >> as we look at what eric cantor said it is clear he wanted to use the debt ceiling as a bargaining cheap to get demands of the budget cuts. is there anything democrats could have done to avoid grid lock short of giving republicans everything they wanted up front? >> when you look at the way president obama operates, he's a reasonable man. he assumes that everybody else is reasonable and that you can reason your way through these

kinds of crises. the problem is that the position that eric cantor took was that they were willing to risk the default of the nation's credit. the president was not willing to risk that default. in the account that you mentioned it says when democrats met with the president, i believe in may of this year, he basically said to them, i can't look you in the eye and say that i'm not going to blink because i'm not willing to risk the credit of the country. this is a unique situation. i don't know quite how we go forward. it reminds me -- it's called the crazy man theory. when nixon was in the white house and negotiating with the north vietnamese. he told his national security adviser let them think i'm crazy, that i might go nuclear. i think we know this president is not going to go nuclear. in a way that's a disadvantage in his dealing with the folks on

capitol hill. >> short of using the crazy man philosophy here do you see something the president could have done to handle this more effectively? >> i think there were a couple of moments along the way or maybe at least one when the gang of six came out in the senate. he should have really just gotten out front and said, i fully embrace this. he should have brought the six of them to the white house, three republicans. and really showcased their support. so that was at a point when he was negotiating still with speaker boehner. maybe by putting the spotlight on those six and the possibility of achievement he may have been able to shame the house republicans into backing off a little bit. i think you could probably find one or two other moments along the way. if he had demonstrated more visible and powerful upfront leadership instead of appearing to be -- maybe that would have

failed too. i don't think we know. >> hindsight is 20/20. >> exactly. >> this is a unique situation. >> yeah. >> let's listen to michelle bach man speaking in iowa yesterday. >> we are seeing all the liberals in washington, d.c. blaming the tea party movement for what happened with the credit rating agency. how ignorant do you think we are? it was the tea party movement that stands for we are taxed enough already, don't spend more money that be you bring in. >> on the daily beast this week you wrote nancy pelosi wants to make sure people know the tea party hijacked the debate. talk about polarized sides. who do you think will win the argument over the role the tea party played in the debt ceiling

debate? >> if you look at the polls over the next week, tea party approval is at 18%. the country is rather agast at their tactics. it looks like they were in the minority of the minority bullying the president and turning a housekeeping detail into a crisis. i think standard and poor's lowering the credit rating was a political judgment. i think they pointed fingers at the dysfunction of capitol hill. the dysfunction of capitol hill happened primarily because you had a group of people who didn't want to negotiate and were willing to take the country over the cliff. i think the tea party loses politically. they have outsized leverage within the republican party and in washington. it's really a disconnect, i think. if you held the 2010 elections over again today, i don't think the tea party would come out the big winner. >> interesting. >> but we can't rerun elections

unfortunately. >> what about how imper ty pep it for the president to make progress on jobs and how can he go about doing that? >> well, he has a number of proposals on capitol hill that have been languishing. you know, the infrastructure bank, trade deals, extend the payroll tax holiday. they are all worthy ideas. they are being blocked on capitol hill. he has to make it clear who's doing the blocking. but there are a lot of smart people in the white house. they have to come up with some sort of a big idea that can capture the people's imagination that will really convince americans that he's fighting for them, that he's got some idea of what to do. i think right now people are looking at this president. they like him. they don't really blame him for what's going on, but they are not sure he has a path forward. i think this is a critical

point. not only for the country but also if he wants to be re-elected. >> eleanor, thank you. >> we should mention this week's issue of newsweek features michele bachmann. in the wake of the credit downgrade what can we expect tomorrow when wall street returns to business? and up next, he's losing like never before from the golf course and from his wallet. another sponsor tells tiger woods, it's over. all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists, and our pediatrician gets all the information. everyone works as a team. and i only need to talk to one person about her care. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.

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tiger woods has lost another corporate sponsor. luxury swiss watch maker tag heuer has stopped its sponsorship of tiger woods. he's lost six sponsors since revealing his affairs with other women. the bad news for tiger keeps on rolling after a three-month lay-off due to leg injuries.

tiger returned to action this week at the bridgestone invitational in ohio. the veteran golfer not seeing the results that catapulted him into sports superstardom. >> made a couple of silly mistakes like on 16. that was an awful swing. i'm still fighting my old patterns. >> joining me now is mike walker from golf magazine. good morning. >> good morning. >> what's going on with his game from a golfer's perspective? >> he's lost his aaa rating. the outlook is negative for the year. he's not putting well. he's hitting the ball okay. he's rusty. he's had time off. this is a course where he won seven times. you have to say negative for the rest of the way. >> is it the mental attitude? he used to have a focus that was undie lieutena d undiluted. has he lost that? have the distractions been overwhelming? william the golf, most of the

time you stand around doing nothing. it's a lot about keeping focus. that's been a struggle for him. you see it especially in the short game and on the putting. >> we talked about tag heuer leaving him. how much do you think it affects his standing in the golf community. has he really fallen from grace? >> the endorsements he lost, he lost the ones where he was to be a perfect person, a paragon of virtue. the ones that are left are ones where his brand is winning. that's the ones he'll struggle to hang onto. what does nike do? what does the video game do? the winning brand is the one that's in trouble now. >> he's a guy who got so much success at such a young age. he's still young in the golf world. do you think he can come back? >> i think he will.

he's 35 years old. >> right. >> he's struggling with injuries. the knee thing is serious. he's had four operations. one of the problems now is he wants to practice the new swing but he can't because if he practices he hurts the knee. then he sits around, thinks about the money he's lost. he's in a bad place. if the knee heals he has talent. it would be surprising to me if he doesn't win. he won't be tiger woods like ten years ago. >> fans love him still? >> they are split. half still love him and half like you saw when rory mcilroy won. they were embracing him. but half of it was against tiger. like he embrace it is fans. >> okay. from golf magazine, mike walker. thanks for chatting.

>> thanks, alex. >> now to china. a guy makes a sport out of walking tightropes. mike, don't leave. you have to watch this. 300 feet in the air yesterday bravely trying to ta verse a 49-foot steel wire. he falls because of the winds. he's 300 feet in the air. of course the tether probably saved him from going splat but how brave was he really? there are other words i can think of to describe him. >> there are a couple i can come up with. >> like are you kidding me? >> he did pull himself back up and get to the other side. there you have it. couple stomachs lurching as they watch. get back up there. okay. it's all good but you have to get to the other side still. well i always worry about what's in the food that i put on my children's plate.

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new reaction this hour on the helicopter crash in afghanistan that killed 30 u.s. troops including 22 navy seals. it is the deadliest single loss for american forces in the decade-old war. moments ago on "meet the press" senator john kerry, chairman of the foreign relations committee spoke about the loss. >> it's just an extraordinary sense of loss. a sense of gratitude for the quality of their sacrifice and their service. our hearts go out to their families. i think john and i join every single american in feeling as if we have lost a member of our family. so the first thought is sadness and sorrow for the loss. >> the effort that they are making there is one that is important to our national security in this transition notice there were seven afghans there. members of a commando force that's part of a transition taking place. so i think -- you know, we have

to find out exactly what happened. i'm going to be very interested to see sort of who may have been involved in this. >> at a baseball game in norfolk, virginia, the nayville community paused to remember those who died in the crash, offering prayers for their loved ones, left benn behind. among those mourned is navy seal aaron vaughn. his grandmother said he wanted to be a navy seal since he was a child. vaughn returned to combat just two weeks after his two-month-old daughter was born this summer. his grand moth calls him a hero and a great american. i'm joined by msnbc contributor colonel jack jacobs. >> good morning, alex. >> does the navy seal involvement suggest there was a high ranking target? >> i don't think so. this is the area of the mountain division. my understanding is this was not a raid of the type we saw the

seals do to get osama bin laden. this was a quick reacting force to go assist nato forces that were already engaged right there in the village. it's an unusual use of the seals. typically seals would be used for long-range patrols, raids, snatch operations and so on. they can be used as a quick reaction force to help others, but it's unusual that they would be used in this circumstance. >> talk about this chinook chopper. it's one that i know can go 200 miles per hour, but not when you are trying to get down low and maybe drop navy seals, drop personnel onto a rooftop or something. how vulnerable is it? >> very vulnerable. the most difficult part is the insertion and extraction in an operation. helicopters are great for that. the seals can quick rope down from substantial heights on ropes, climb ladders quickly

back up to get extracted. but at the time that's done the helicopter itself is enormously vulnerable to ground fire, automatic weapons, rocket-propelled grenades and the like. the fact that everybody was killed may indicate that the helicopter instead was at some altitude and in that case it's possible that it was hit by a surface-to-air shoulder-fired anti-aircraft weapon. we'll have to wait for the investigation. an aircraft very vulnerable at extraction. >> i want to ask you about the president's strategy to get us out of afghanistan. where do things stand in the short and long term and how does this incident reflect where we stand? >> that's a good point. this indicates and getting osama bin laden indicates the large majority of operations will be conducted by special forces like seals. conventional forces like the

mountain division, they are going home. they will become less of a factor in the war against trichl and afghanistan. we'll see lots more activity by special forces and special operations forces in afghanistan. >> all right, colonel jacobs. thanks for weighing in. for the latest on the crash in afghanistan you may log onto msnbc.com. from there to london now where the cleanup is under way after yesterday's riots that happened in the tottenham section of town. protesters threw molotov cocktails and looted buildings. 26 officers were injureded. martin fletcher has the latest from london. >> reporter: good morning. it all began on thursday night when the police were trying to arrest a man in a mini cab. they say there was a shooting. the man fired and apparently the policeman's life was saved when a bullet hit his radio, his walkie-talkie. they describe the man as a gangster. he was a 29-year-old father of two. a protest outside the tottenham

police station began with about 50 people calling for justice. great anger at the killing of the young man from this area known as one of the poorer areas of london. that quickly escalated. hundreds -- about 500 young men, many hooded, began shouting, throwing stones at police and burning police cars, a bus, a building. all hell broke loose here. police are now treating the area as a crime scene fearing there could be more violence tonight. >> martin fletcher, thank you. in israel, more than a quarter million people protested against the rising cost of living yesterday. demonstrators waved flags and chanted. some rylined up in front of benjamin netanyahu's home. tomorrow marks the first trading day since standard and poor's downgraded the u.s. credit rating.

the u.s. has never been downgraded before. there is uncertainty about how the markets will react. the asian markets will open this evening. jared bernstein is a msnbc contributor. thanks for joining us. >> my pleasure, alex. >> i'm glad you're here. what are we in for tomorrow? >> the thing we want to look at starting when the asian markets open are the interest rates or economists call them yields on government debt, on treasury bills. if borrowers of the u.s. government in this case have to pay a higher rate, what's called a risk premium on the interest rates we could see it happening quickly. those who lend to us insist that they have a slightly higher payback rate, interest rate to account for the debt downgrade. i personally think that's probably not likely. remember, there are three rating agencies. only one of them took our debt rating down a notch.

typically when this happens -- it's never happened here before but when it's happened in other advanced economies you don't necessarily see much reaction. we better watch for it. >> if you look between standard & poor's, fitch, moody's, if they look at what the other one is doing because standard and poor's is getting a lot of heat from the white house. >> i think they made a mistake here. there was a quote from someone, i believe at moody's, that said, look, we don't love where the negotiations are going. we don't like the debt outlook but we did see at the end of the day of after a dysfunctional process some serious deficit reduction to the tune of over $2 trillion over ten years. so we are taking a wait and see attitude. we have the u.s. on a watch list. that's a much more reasonable view to take. the question that a rating agency has to ask is -- is this

debtor a reliable person that we can essentially count on getting our loan paid back? in the case of the u.s. the answer is yes, that's where moody's and fitch's came out. >> jared, people look at these credit rating agencies and they think, you mix politics and the economy right now. >> right. >> i have seen many questions posed as to whether or not this is right or not. they are defending it look at public policy but the words used earlier serious dysfunction. do you think the credit rating agencies are looking at something that is just so bad, almost unprecedented in their nature of looking at politics when they are trying to figure out money? >> i think you raise an excellent point. if you read what standard & poor's wrote, a lot of it makes sense. they talk about the unpredictability of a system.

they talk about the inflexibility of both parties together. they talk about the need for revenues in an agreement if we are ever going to get our budget on a sustainable path. but we don't look to the rating agencies for political analysis. what we welcome for them is, as i said a second ago. they need to signal to lenders whether the person to whom they are lending -- in this case the u.s. government -- is a reliable institution that you can count on to pay them back. once we got the debt ceiling behind us, there is no reason we can't service our debt as effectively as we have done for hundreds of years. while their political stuff is interesting, it read to me like what you would see on a blog. it's interesting and on point and the revenue point is well taken. it really doesn't relate to the key question a rating agency has to answer. clearly the other two agree with my assessment on that point at this point in time. >> okay. jared bernstein, we agree with a

lot of what you say. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> many americans are cutting back on spending while high end shoppers are making a comeback. that's coming up on msnbc sunday. you know when something's bad -- but you do it anyway? that's me with the blow dryer and the flat iron until i see smoke. so pantene said, "breakage and split ends? no problem." they gave me this pantene called breakage to strength. [ female announcer ] the keratin protection pro-v system helps prevent then repair split ends. zero fear of breakage, 100% more strength. no regrets, just health. i'm not giving up the heat. [ female announcer ] the breakage to strength system from pantene. that sounded like the chocobeast. he likes to sink his fangs into people who steal chocolate temptations. aaah! [ all scream ] nice job, chocobeast!

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as republican presidential contenders get ready for their first big test michele bachmann is blasting president obama over the credit downgrade. she campaigned saturday with a week to go before the straw poll that could kick start the 2012 campaign. joining me on the phone is msnbc's jamie novogrod. talk about her comments on the president? >> hi, alex. sure. in three events yesterday michele bachmann tied the credit downgrades to the debt deal in washington last week and accused

president obama of recklessly driving the economy. she said that he's not just driven it into the ditch. he's throwing away the clutch, the transmission's gone. she has several demands for the president. she demanded the resignation of treasury secretary timothy geithner. she demanded that the president present a plan for budget cuts that would balance the economy. and yesterday, alex, he said this. take a listen. >> i'm sure they did what they do to my son to try to make an example of him to show the other homeless people, get out of here next. it was clearly a hate crime against the homeless and the mentally ill. >> hey, jamie, i apologize for that. unfortunately that was -- >> that didn't sound like the congresswoman's voice. but i can tell you what she said. that's okay. >> okay. go ahead. >> she listed a third demand. she demanded that the president

return from camp david and that he address the american people on the downgrade with a plan before the start of the market day. >> indeed she did. also, can i ask you -- i mean, this is a woman who must have some party planners on her staff. look at what she's planned for next saturday in ames. she's got an air conditioned tent. this will be a great day for you. >> yeah. >> looks like fun. >> i'm looking forward to it. she likes to say, come on down. it's not just doom and bloom. her stump speeches have to do with the economy and what she regards as america's declining position in the world, alex. but then she says, come on down to ames, we'll have a whale of a time. she has randy travis, the country music performer, playing. there is a zoo for children and the campaign hopes to make a strong showing at the straw poll. >> she's certainly aiming for number one in the straw poll.

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a florida mother is urging her three adult children to turn themselves in after they went on a crime spree. the two brothers and sisters, all in their 20s, shot at a police officer in florida before robbing a bank in georgia with an ak-47. pat brown is also the author of the profiler. good sunday morning to you, pat. >> good morning, alex. >> so police have no clue at this point, as we understand it,

where the siblings are. so where do they go from here? >> well, they are on a crime spree so they are going to keep running, i guess. i kind of envision that they are fast and furious, although they are driving a subaru. they have a fantasy of going out and committing some major crime spree and they really don't care if they die at the end of the day, apparently, because one of the young man texted his mother and said, everybody's got to die sometime. >> so what does that tell you about the state of mind of these three? how dangerous does that make them? because if you're willing to die and you're cavalier about that, that suggestion may go to any extreme. >> that's right, alex. that's the biggest fear that one has. apparently in the family, we have the death of the father fairly recently, the death of another sister fairly recently. and the youngest boy, he had been sending text messages to an

11-year-old and was on probation and cut his tag off. we have people having problems. the sister was a topless dancer and was supposed to be getting married to some sugar daddy professor. i guess she wasn't that into him. they are off on the run. all three of them think that their lives are worthless and they just want to go off with a bang. >> is there a precedent like this? you see siblings banning together to become lethal weapons? >> you don't usually see it with siblings, usually a bonnie and clyde and here we have a bonnie and clyde and clyde. >> how about police enforcement? you see these bill boards that have been up around georgia and florida where they have definitively been spotted. how will that help? does that really help? does the public then have to count on the public to bring in tips? >> well, they do. they are going to have for the

police officers out there that will hopefully see this vehicle and pull it over and get them taken care of before they kill somebody. but, yes, for everybody else out there, they have to know about this trail because they are running around with ak-47s and other weapons. they are dangerous. we're not talking about something mild here. they are very, very dangerous at this point. >> indeed. pat brown, many thanks for weighing in. appreciate that. >> thank you. the latest out of afghanistan on the downing of the u.s. helicopter that claimed the lives of 30 u.s. service members. also ahead, how will the monday markets react? stay with us. we'll take a look here on msnbc monday. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals.

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right now on msnbc sunday, america mourns for the 30 u.s. service members killed after a military helicopter is shot down in afghanistan. among the dead, members of the elite navy s.e.a.l.s unit behind the raid on osama bin laden's compound. the latest on the deadliest single loss since the afghan war began. new fallout this morning from america's credit