today another ratings agency, moody's is warning it too could downgrade the u.s. credit rating before 2013 if things don't improve. also today s&p downgraded fannie and freddie on capitol hill there's plenty of confusion over what this will mean over the long-term. and there's lots of finger pointing over who's to blame, president obama, republicans, democrats, maybe s&p. we are also waiting to hear from leon panetta. he's expected to address the fallout from that tragedy in afghanistan at any moment. 30 american service members most of them elite navy s.e.a.l.s were on a rescue mission. they were killed when their chopper went down on saturday. it's the single deadliest day for u.s. forces in the decade long war. 22 navy s.e.a.l.s, five army air crew and three u.s. special forces airmen died along with eight afghans. today grieving families share

memories of their loved ones. >> i'm proud that i will get to carry on his legacy through our children. >> he honestly believed and saw black and white that what we're involved in, he told me this is a a war for the survival of our republic. >> if there is a a comfort in the situation, i'm so proud of my son. so very proud of him. >> they make huge sacrifices for us above and beyond. our kids need to know that. >> we will continue to relentlessly pursuit the enemy. >> i'm joined now from kabul. what are you learning about what happened? >> reporter: nato's finally giving us a glimpse into what really happened in that overnight raid on saturday that killed 389 men. what we do know is there was an army rangers unit fighting the

taliban. that's when this re-enforcement unit came in to help them because they were pinned down fighting the taliban. while their helicopter approached the area of attack, that's when the taliban fired a rocket propoled grenade bringing that ch-47 chinook helicopter down to the ground killing everyone on board. what's interesting here, contessa, is the fact that the taliban first gave us this story on saturday, but nato could not confirm it at the time. they were investigating. they are still in fact investigating. u.s. officials say they have recovered all the bodily remains, but at the same time the area, the crash site is still cordoned off as they're trying to find the remnants of the helicopter. >> what are you hearing from the leaders on the ground about how this will influence the troop withdrawal? >> reporter: we actually just went to a press conference today they wouldn't give us details at

the time. they said the deaths would not compromise the war in afghanistan. they will continue to fight the fight they need to. they will continue the withdrauls and transitioning to the afghan forces. when we look at the 30 americans who died in that helicopter crash. they were alongside eight afghans. seven commandos elite members of the afghan army as well. men that they were training to help take over the responsibility of securing their own country. >> thank you so much for the update there from kabul. we're outside the naval station in norfolk, virginia, half of all elite commandos are based. you're hearing from family members. they know the dangers that s.e.a.l.s face every day. >> reporter: they do. this is navy seal country. more than half are based here. the other half on the west coast in california. you go all around this town,

they're a member of the navy ss.e.a.l. family or neighbors to them. we went to a church service over the weekend. they gave a moment of silence and sang the navy hymn as well. at the baseball game they gave pause and a moment of silence for the people that have fallen in this attack as well. and all around this yaifr you'll see and feel that sentiment as well. we talked to a navy s.e.a.l. wife, she said even though they're not a stranger to sacrifice, there's nothing that can prepare them for a loss like this. >> you pray every day that they do come home. this weekend unfortunately, they're going to be a lot of guys not coming home. >> reporter: and the next difficult step for the families of the fallen is waiting for the bodies of their loved ones to be flown back to american soil. it's a very time for everyone. >> thank you very much. almost ten years of war, $440 billion spent. more than 1500 lives lost.

at least 13,000 injured. so my big question today, have we reached the point of diminishing returns in afghanistan in i'd like to hear from you. you can reach me on facebook, on twitter. retired army colonel jack jacobs is an msnbc analyst and recipient of the med a dal of honor. you served in a war that lasted almost a decade and where so many lives were lost and americans began questioning what were we doing in vietnam? when we look at afghanistan, do you see some similarities? >> it's the question of starting at the end and work backwards. the question of vietnam pertains in afghanistan. what is it we're trying to do? once you articulate the objective, the assets become obvious. we had no clear objective in vietnam. the only objective that one can

perceive in afghanistan here is to get out. the president said so himself. so there's two options. either you load up and kill the bad guys or you accelerate the withdrawal. >> surely, there are people who believe we can accomplish something by staying. you don't send 30 americans on a helicopter to help out. the elite of the elite. >> that's really a different question. the question in my mind altogether what was a tier one unit like the s.e.a.l.s doing, what was their objective? was there a high value target actually there? it's possible. but if there was a high value target there why did the command send a small number of rangers there in the first place and if the s.e.a.l.s were a quick reaction force, why did they drop on to the objective. you don't do that. if you have troops in contact on the ground, you drop the re-enforcement force, the quick reaction force, some distance

away. the quick reaction force goes on the ground by infiltration. >> especially because the rangers had seen that the insurgents had lamplers for rocket propelled grenades. >> it's difficult to hit a helicopter wit. there's no reason why when you have troops in contact you send a quick reaction force on top of the objective. you send it some distance away and come in by infiltration. the other thing that concerns when he is the question of what the rangers were doing on the ground. why would you send a quick reactiontors force to a unit that clearly has not had any casualties. the decision to send the s.e.a.l.s in there in the first place is questionable in my mind. >> big picture here, can we accomplish something still by staying? >> the short answer is yes, but only in specific areas in. the south, kandahar, up in the northeast, not across the board in afghanistan. >> colonel, good to see you. >> good to see you, too. we're waiting to hear from

leon panetta. i'm looking at the event now. mcdill air force base in tampa, florida, when we hear the defense secretary talking we do expect him to address the loss of life in afghanistan, we will take you to there live. the other big breaking story, the s&p's downgrade of america's credit rating. it's just a start. today the s&p also just downgraded mortgage backers fannie mae and freddie mac, you can see the reaction on the stock markets. it's not just the american markets that are moving in this trend. globally we've seen this reaction. the dow jones now down 335 points on the day. the s&p is off by 40. the nasdaq has plummeted 97 points. obviously this is very negative territory. the global selloff continues right now. and s&p's john chambers explains his organization's decision.

>> we have a negative outlook fixed to a longer time frame from six months to 24 months. if the fiscal position of the united states deteriorates further, or if the plirtical gridlock becomes more entrenched that could lead to a downgrade. >> i think s&p has shown really terrible judgment. they've handled themselves very poorly. they've showed a stunning lack of knowledge about basic u.s. fiscal math. i think they've drawn the wrong conclusion. >> we have a cnbc contributor. it's not just the s&p now, moody's has warned it too might downgrade the u.s. credit rating. these are credit rating agencies that have been wrong before, 2007, 2008, should their word on this matter? >> it does to a certain extent, contessa to the degree that institutional investors and others have to weigh those ratings particularly since some institutions although it's not

the case right now can only own aaa securities banks could have been forced to sell. money market mule chal funds could have been forced to sell. we have not seen the deluge. the great irony is 72 hours after s&p downgrades u.s. treasuries and raises the risk of a double dip recession given everything else that's going on in the world, the money is flowing into u.s. treasuries. so yields are actually falling sharply more on worries of economic growth than on the downgrade itself. >> you're watching the situation become dire in europe where you have france and germany getting together and saying what more can we do to save countries in the european union like spain and italy? there are those who are now predetecting a wae of defaults across europe, is that a bigger concern? >> at the moment it's all a concern. everything that's going on right now is both recession their and

deflation their. as we see commodity prices with the exception of gold falling today. we've seen stocks falling around the world. that is sending a yellow, the not red warning signal that we are at risk in a double dip recession. part of it is cure is worse than the disease. this austerity movement that's taking place around the world to a lesser extent here is really crimping the economies of the globe. china is raising interest rates. european countries as cutting their budgets dramatically even though they're growth can't -- growth rates can't support reduced government spending at the moment. we're in danger of making a similar type of mistake. these were the mistakes were made -- but you don't tighten up when you're not growing sufficiently to withstand that type of pain. >> it's the argument that a lot of democrats were making on capitol hill ahead of the debt ceiling debate over raising it and where conservatives were

pushing back and saying our debt is strangling us and it will be injure downfall -- our downfall. >> quite the opposite, they're stimlative. short-term deficits are stimlative. the long-term unfunded liabilities of medicare, medicaid and social security tonight a a degree defense spending are a real problem. if congress and the president would have adopted the simpson-bowles deficit reduction proposal from his own commission rather than thrown those two gentlemen under the bus for having done excellent work and addressing entitlement reform, we wouldn't be in this situation. that was a $4 trillion. >> you're talking about sacred cows again on both sides. >> they can't be sacred forever. >> you're absolutely right. >> we're talking about particular change in that program. >> ron, thank you for weighing in. appreciate that. let me take you now to tampa,

florida, here's defense secretary leon panetta. he's at an event where they're changing the guard of u.s. special op ration command. expected to address the tragedy that happened in afghanistan over the weekend. >> but none of us, none of us could do these jobs without the love and support of our families. so in many ways a ceremony honors you and your families for the great sacrifice and support that you've provided these great leaders. i want to also acknowledge the command here, the staff in particular. i'd like to acknowledge the presence of two dear friends from the congress, former cloogs of mine, bill young from florida and norm dix from washington. norm and i have known each other over 40 years. we were both legislative

assistants on the floor. which means that at the present time, in his role on the appropriations committee, he's going to see an awful lot of me as we go through the budget issues. it's a privilege for me to be here today to recognize and honor admiral olson for nearly four decades of service to this country. four decades of service to this country. it's also my privilege to welcome admiral bill mcraven. a great warrior who will lead special -- secretary of defense lien panetta is at macdill air force base where she's presiding

over the changing of the commands. admiral olson the first member of the s.e.a.l.s to run the special op rations aside is stepping aside and mccraven who was also in the s.e.a.l.s. a tough day for the s.e.a.l.s. >> they were far from home. we know that they were also where they wanted to be. doing what they wanted to do. alongside men who were perhaps closer to them than their own brothers. we owe them our deepest gratitude. for their willingness to put tlar lives on the line. for their willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of their nation.

but we also must pledge to them and to their families, that we will never cease fighting for the cause for which they gave their lives. cause of a secure and safer america. we will honor the fallen by showing the world our unyielding determination to press ahead. to move forward with the hard work that must be done to protect our country. as heavy a loss as this was, it would even be more tragic if we allowed it to derail this country from our efforts to defeat al qaeda and deny them a

safe haven in afghanistan. instead, we will send a strong message of american resolve from this tragedy we draw even greater inspiration to carry on the fight. to continue to hunt down those who would do us harm. we will never stop. we will fight on. until we have achieved the final goal of victory over terrorism. this is a reminder. it's a reminder to the american people that we remain a nation

still at war. one that has seen itsz share of triumph and tragedy. special op raters have been at the heart of many of those triumphs. the entire world saw the precision and skill of our military in the operation that brought down bin laden. but we know that these successes are driven by the willingness of these brave warriors to shoulder heavy burdens, to take on great risks. and as we all know, that comes oftentimes at a very high cost.

few in our military are more aware of these costs, these sacrifices and few have done more to help this resilient community than the leader we are honoring today, admiral eric olson. he has led special op rations in combat overseas and together with his wife, marilyn -- >> there you hear the high praise for the man who has overseen special op rations command admiral eric olson stepping down today. he was the nirs navy zeal to run so come. he's being replaced by admiral william mccraven. as you heard the defense secretary say it's been a tough, tough weekend for the s.e.a.l.s. they have seen their worst lots of life, their worst tragedy when 22 seal commandos were killed. 30 americans in all and eight

afghans on a helicopter that went down on a mission in afghanistan. we're going ta take a quick break. we'll be right back. . time for the your business entrepreneur of the week. this designer copyrighted her first cartoon character when she was just 12. 20 years later she did the same with hand painted glasses. her collection took off. so she licensed the brand for everything from pajamas to jewelry, to towels-for more watch "your business" sunday watch "your business" sunday mornings. i love that my daughter's part fish.

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behind the 30 u.s. troop deaths in afghanistan this weekend are 30 grieves military families. the parents who raised them, the spouses who married them and the young children born to heroes who died protecting the country. those families now find themselves in the unimaginable position of saying good-bye to those they loved. her husband is a lieutenant colonel in the air force. good so see you today. >> thank you for having me. >> most of these families knew their loved ones worked in a high risk military field that their missions are dangerous,

secret and crucial to american success. they would have lived every day with this reality as a constant worry. so at this point, what's the primary challenge for them? >> of course, as in any difficult situation, the primary challenge is just coming to grips with what's happened. and, you know, the armed forces clearly has infrastructure in place to address the immediate these to help each of the families. there's some great organizations out there that are also augmenting to help the passage. right now everyone is clearly in shock. and they're trying to brin themselves together. and make sure that they can address the children's issues. many, many families will have to be traveling. some of those costs are born and provided by a number of organizations like the special forces operation foundation.

and to address a lot of the grief issues, the casualty assistance program for survivors provides those immediate resources to help make that transition through. >> we have started hearing a louder course of critics questioning the mission in afghanistan. and there are people who now say and they could have even been supporters of the war previously, they now say, look, no longer is our mission valid, no longer can we accomplish goals there. does that sort of public debate make the sacrifice more difficult for these families? >> i think what has happened is that there's a tragedy like this has now brought the focus on the risk and dangers that our military service members face every day. and quite frankly the enormous sacrifice born by military families. we have these operations going

on daily. and when our families and our service members have pledged their service to fight for this country, it's not our position really to question it. we are definitely behind what our commander in chief puts forth. and we're here to protect. as military families we are here to support our war fighters. >> thank you so much for the work that you do on behalf of these families. i always say it's not just the person who enlists in the military. it also enlists their families too, voluntary or not. it's good that they have an organization like yours to support them. thank you. >> thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> here's a look now at some of the brave troops who lost their lives in afghanistan this weekend. we'll be right back. introducing the schwab mobile app.

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even pessimism on the parts of investors. a massive selloff. we'll wait to hear from the president in half an hour. robert caplan is a professor of business practice. former vice chairman of goldman sachs. the treasury secretary faulted the s&p. he said they don't know what they're doing when it comes to budgetary math. is there real credibility in what is s&p is saying? >> we all know s&p's credibility was hurt badly many the last three to five years. having said that, they put the united states on credit watch in april. and i think this was a matter of time they were going to do this. i think whether s&p was right or wrong is beside the point meaning our problem of a week ago before the downkbrad is the same as it is today. >> which is? >> deleverage our government and still grow the economy. and i think once there was not going to be a grand bargain of $4 trillion, i think it was just a matter of time it could have

been now, three or four months from now. blaming s&p is beside the point. >> s&p said part of it was the in so many words lawmaker's willingness to risk default rather than compromise if a deal had been done quicker, would we have seen a credit downgrade? >> no. i think it was going to have to be $4 trillion. i think s&p's been consistent about that. when it was clear it was going to be much smaller. the ranker that they observed i think it increased the likelihood. >> professor, what about the downgrade today of freddie and fannie? what's the impact of that likely to be? >> it means they're going to pay more to borrow versus treasuries. the problem with the s&p downgrade it leads to a ripple effect of other downgrades, that ripple is starting to happen. we have to work our way through it. i think the treasury market will be relatively stable. >> when you're advising business leaders now on how to proceed, what's the risk now? there's people who are keeping a

close eye on europe saying we could see a wave of default sweeping europe what should business leaders be doing to position themselves towards success? >> the number one issue is slow growth. they don't think there's going to be default. there's problem in europe. the fears of a global slowdown in growth here and around the world. that's what business leaders are adjusting to. that's why we would like at no labels and other organizations would like to see the leaders rise to the occasion and talk about solutions. this is not a time for finger pointing. >> robert caplan formerly of goldman sarks and the author of "what to ask the person in the mirror" ark book on leadership. thank you for coming in. >> thank you. a tragic day for the proud community of navy s.e.a.l.s and their family. 22 s.e.a.l.s are among the 30 american troops killed in a horrific helicopter crash. i'm joined now by retired u.s.

navy s.e.a.l. captain. sir, good to see you today, thank you for joining me. >> good afternoon, contessa. >> 22 of 30 killed were from s.e.a.l. team six. it's a team of 200 total. what does that kind of loss do to the rest of the team? >> ast a tragic loss not only to the entire team, to the entire force, the family and country as well. these young men are national treasures. they're not found on every street corner. it's a tragic loss. >> the defense secretary is in tampa, florida, today, he's presiding over a change of command for operations command, he said this is a tragic reminder to the nation that we are a nation at war. how instrumental our teams like navy s.e.a.l. team six to the ultimate success of any mission?

>> i think that our entire military is enormously important to the success of it. we forget sometimes that the s.e.a.l.s are supported by a whole range of other assets as is delta and the other special forces and the task force 160 and the rangers. it goes on and on and on. i think everybody has their piece of success and failure. it's a brotherhood. when one of your brothers dies, it's tragic. >> is chinook helicopter was on its way to re-enforce a way of army rangers who were underfire. the military says that they were after a high value taliban leader. is that a a normal role for navy s.e.a.l.s to go in and back up guys on the ground that are under fire.

>> when one of our comrades is at risk, you take what other assets are available to rescue them. there were americans at risk on the ground and you take whatever assets that you have immediately available to affect that. >> thank you so much retired navy s.e.a.l. captain. i appreciate your time today. >> thank you, contessa. texas governor rick perry's presidential prayers might have been answered in a huge rally this weekend. plus the unemployment rate for african-americans is nearly 17% right now. what the congressional black caucus is doing about it without the president. ♪

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after republicans took power in january they passed the budget limiting collective bargaining for union workers. things got so heated remember this. state representative fraed clark is a democrat. he's challenging long time republican senator luther olson. representative, good to see you today? >> good morning, contessa. >> so olson's district is so republican he's never had a democrat. i think in some 16 years being the senator. what makes you think that you can win in tomorrow's recall election if he's never faced off a democratic opponent before? >> it's true. we're seeing a competitive election for the first time in most anyone's memory. the reason we can zo this this year is because wisconsin has in the midst in a hoifblg set of events set a historic

controversy. voters are re-evaluating what political leadership means and what they want in a representative. >> we're showing the video back from those days when they were massive protests outside the state capital in mad son. these recalls began over the rights of state workers to collectively bargain. in the months following that debate, it seems like the conversation is more about party politics. let me play one of your campaign ads. >> did you think we wouldn't notice? >> cutting health care for seniors? and funds for our grand kids' schools snchl you ought to be ashamed, senator olsen. >> what happened to union rights being front and center? >> the ad you showed was put on by a third party group. what happened was collective bargaining was certainly the trigger that started the recall effort. since then we passed the state budget that made crippling cuts to education, public schools in wisconsin that has started the

process of really reformulating some of the most successful public health programs in the country. so there's a much lighter group of issues that are at stake right now. voters have those issues on their minds when they're going to the polls tomorrow. >> do you see this? do you think voters see this as a referendum on scott walker the governor? >> i'm sure there's many voters who have that on their mind tomorrow. it's also a referendum on what we should expect of our elected representatives. unfortunately this year too many of our representatives have simply been a rubber stamp for an agenda handed down by our governor and majority leader and they haven't exercised independent judgment on behalf of their constituents. >> representative clark we're going to be keeping a close eye on what happens in wisconsin tomorrow. turnout of course will be crucial as to who survives recalls and who doesn't. thank you so much, sir, for your

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why wait? ask your doctor about latisse® from allergan, a company with 60 years of eye care expertise. . hi i'm andrea mitchell. coming up next on "andrea mitchell reports," president obama will be speaking at the top of this hour about the s&p downgrade and of course this weekend's deadly attack on u.s. service members in afghanistan. with us, "hardball's" chris matthews, cnbc's ron insana and william co-when. plus congressional black caucus chairman and his group's plan to get african-americans back to work. we'll see you in 15 minutes right here on "andrea mitchell reports." for texas govern rick perry the road to the republican nomination could be paved with prayer. >> you call us to repent lord and this day is our response. for thien is the kingdom and the

power and the glory forever. amen. >> this weekend perry hosted 30,000 of his closest church friends. they got together for the response, a revival type prayer meeting many the heart of texas. "the washington post" reports perry could just be days away from announcing whether he'll seek the gop's 2012 presidential nomination. by the way, we're just learning now that while all the rest of the republican contenders will be in ames iowa for the straw poll, rick perry's going to be in new hampshire. msnbc political am nis karen finny is a former democratic national committee spokesperson. and we have the washington examiner editorial page writer. it seems in spite of the controversy that the speakers maintained a pretty moderate tone. did politicians do you think see a danger in pushing the politics at this prayer event? >> well i didn't hear a whole

lot of politics at it be event. what i did hear is pretty much the exact same prayers and invocations to the christian god that you heard from millions and millions of our fellow americans this weekend in their churches. i'm not sure what the big deal is about the fact that this event was held. other than the possibility that like the puritans who were worried that somewhere, somehow somebody might be having some fun. there's a lot of people in this town that are worried that somewhere, somehow people might be praying. >> do you think that the politicians who participate in this kind of event are really just discounting the votes of muslims, atheists, buddhists, humanists, et cetera? >> i've never known a politician who would throw away any votes if they thought they had a chance of getting them. no, i don't think so as all. as i said governor perry and other folks weren't doing anything that millions of people

weren't also doing in church. it was a prayer meeting. >> and millions of people were doing over the weekend and not at church. karen, it seems like the perfect place. who's going to have a problem with former governor rick scott praying for gods? >> i think it's the kind of thing that's potentially fraught with all kinds of problems. it turned out very well. as mark was pointing out it was not particularly political. it was more prayerful. if somehow were to have used the opportunity to make more of a political speech or if governor perry's speech would have sounded more political in nature that's where it would have been a problem. i want to make a point on something that you just asked. i think the concern is in the context of a political campaign because this is someone we're hearing is going to run for president, the there's nothing wrong with being a christian and espousing your faith and being prayerful. the question is can rick perry

if he is a candidate show that he is open to people of all faiths? or atheists, people who don't believe. that's a question if he makes it to the general election whereas this is a great primary strategy for those evangelical voters, i'm not sure how it plays in the general. >> mark, i appreciate you joining me as well. joining me as well. >> we'll be right back. you could save a bundle with geico's multi-policy discount. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. ♪ geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. maybe not. v8 v-fusion juice gives them a full serving of vegetables plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit.

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today in cleveland, lawmakers are kicking off a month long jobs initiative from ohio to california, the congressional black caucus is putting on jab fairs, town hall meetings, workshops and seminars designed specifically to help the black community find employment. african-american unemployment is at 15.9% for july. more than six points higher than the national average. congresswoman marsha fung is a democratic from ohio. she joins me from cleveland.

there you are in your hometown where unemployment is clooeflandland 8.3%. beat the national average at 9.1%. in your particular city, or your state do you know how that compares with the african-american unemployment rate? >> the african-american unemployment rate in our community is almost 20%. nationally it's about 16%. here in the city of cleveland it is almost 20%. >> so a job fair like this one, what can you do to help people land jobs? >> what we've done is bring together more than 100 employers from our community. we have almost 7,000 people here today. on one hand sst great that this many people came out for the people jobs fair. but it really is tragic that so many people are unemployed in our community. we want to match people up.

we've got jobs from entry level to executive level. all are welcome to come here. we just want to do our part to let people know that there is hope, that we care and we're going to do more than just talk about the jobs problem. >> "the washington post" has a headline that says the lack of jobs for blacks creatings tension for black lawmakers and obama. is there tension? is your approach different than the administration? >> our approach is different, but i don't believe there's any attention. certainly there's more than one way to skin a cat. what we're doing may be different from the approach the white house may take, but clearly we both need to create jobs. all of us need to do more. this is our effort at trying to help our communities. >> congresswoman, i wish you the best of luck. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> that wraps up this hour for me. i'm contessa brewer.

i'll see you back here tomorrow. up next "andrea mitchell reports." good monday, here's your business travel forecast. i'm meteorologist bill karins. we're plagued by a lot of showers and thunderstorms. it's going to be hit and miss showers in many spots like boston even possibly an isolated shower in new york, d.c., atlanta same for detroit. out west, the heat is the big story in texas 106 in dallas. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately. book it.

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mitchell reports," live coverage. you can see the state dining room, the white house where we are awaiting a statement from president obama. this as a crisis of confidence grows deeper on wall street. markets tumble. fears of a crisis mount in the wake of the historic downgrade. >> s&p's shown really terrible judgment. they've handled themselves very poorly. they've showed a stunning lack of knowledge about basic u.s. fiscal budget math. i think they drew exactly the wrong conclusion. there is no risk the united states of america would not be in a position to meet its obligations. >> but no break in the finger pointing. the white house and democrats blame the tea party. republicans blame president obama. and tragedy in