america's credit tings. the latest trigger for a ripple across the financial markets. good afternoon to you. i am dylan ratigan. a lovely monday afternoon here in new york city. 4:00 p.m. on the east coast. the closing bell and s&p 500, shellacked, people. 6% in one day. 10% over three days. its biggest three-day drop since november, 2008. ah, the drugs of this is wearing out. rearing its ugly head once again. the rout wiping out $2 trillion in value from every public economy in america. bear in mind, reinflated with funny money from the fed. easy come, easy go. the biggest and one that matters the failure to produce in our economy, as result, evidence slowing combined with politic n

politicians' inability and a sell-off driven not only by the s&p decision by other variables only making matters worse and speaking of ghosts of christmas past, we also watched our own credit rating move from aaa tore aa, but also we watched today's downgrade of the government-funded housing finance companies. you've heard of them. freddie mac and fannie mae. we basically create lending vehicles to help subsidize housing. relieved of their toxic debt in 2008 -- by the government. that was the bailout, people. when uncle sam agreed to absorb the bank debt. that toxicity into the government, and those agencies at the government, then they transferred directly to the governme

government. ironically, standard & poor's then cuts fannie's and freddie's aaa status today. get think, citing direct reliance on the u.s. groft. be claire, banks create a bunch of money. don't have it. they bonus themselves. we borrow it, don't have it. politicians love it. everybody's got a house. exposed for the fraud it is in 2008, instead of dealing with it in 2008. first president bush then president obama, larry xvii somers print money to pretend it didn't happen. a few guys go by, we find ourselves with the banks fully attacked and now or government is bankrupt. is that because we took all the bank's debt? would seem to have a relationship. don't you think? anyway, this afternoon the president responded saying all of these problems are solvable. >> markets will rise and fall, but this is the united states of america. no matter what some agent may say, we've always been and

always will be a aaa country. >> to some degree the president is correct. we do have some time and an incredible amount of resources to address our problems, because out of the u.s. dollar is the currency of the world. the question is whether we'll have the courage to identify the true root of what hails us or we'll simply use what time we have left to recklessly spend our way into oblivion. let's bring in a man hoop has his money where he mouth is. one of great voices that approved the financial efforts in 2008, and one of the great authors before that anticipating and warning of these very problems. your interpretation of today's events in the news of the day, bill? >> well, dylan, this is largely a symbolic gesture. it does not necessarily impact anything in finance other than

some collateral requirements and that's not really going to come into play. what it can impact is confidence, and all markets, and the prices of all markets, have a confidence element to them. so confidence is shaken. but as a catalyst what it does is, it focuses people on the fact that -- that the debts of this country that are the problem are not just our $14 trillion in outstanding debt. the future unfunded liability, as we see causing bankruptcy in small municipalities around the country, is the real problem. so this is the starter's pistol to say we don't get to kick the can down the road anymore. this is in 2008 we did all the things you just said, in the interim time, saved the financial systems bailing out we got nothing done during our do-over time and now confidence is shattered again because we

have failed to address these long-term issues. as you and i discussed in the past, we're always going to take another crisis to force the incompetent politicians that reside in washington, d.c. from both parties who both created this mess over 20 or 30 years to get down to work and start to solve the problems that we have. they will not go away by blaming the other side. >> i want to bring bill black into this conversation, fleckenstein. he's a former bank regulator and associate professor of economic and law at the university of more in kansas city. critical in exposing the corruption sduring the savings and loan crisis. potentially fraud exposed in 2008, covered up by money printing and so-called prosecutorial discretion they tell me about the department of justice, bill black. how is it we can take the credit rating downgrade of our oun

country by s&p seriously knowing that we absorbed the debts of the banks in 2008 to create this problem in the first place? >> well, and even worse, s&p and its sister organization were absolutely essential in creating the crisis on the way up by giving aaa rating to stuff that was known to be -- called in the trade toxic waste, and which the mortgage bankers association anti-fraud unit called in 2006, and the mortgage bankers association is the trade association of the perks, it called liars loans an open invitation to fraudsters and said that 90% of liars loans frare fraudulent. by 2006 roughly a percent in the united states were liars loans and s&p, fitch, moody's, gave aaa to every single one of the

top tranche of those issuenses. so if you don't get those lies by s&p you don't get the crisis. and, you're right. holder, attorney general holder, has continued, attorney general casey under bush's policy, that you can defraud the united states of america with impunity if you are politically powerful and make large political contributions. >> bill fleckenstein, that alone, what mr. black described, is a good reason to shake confidence when their evidence you can defraud the u.s. government with impunity using the banking system and banking fraud, and will not be prosecuted. you have told me many times at the root of this entire issue, bill, bill fleckenstein is accounting fraud. what do you mean when you say that and how do the ratings agency decision for all this lead us to this conversation today?

>> well when i say accounting fraud, what i mean is, you know, in the financial system the way the books are kept and the market to market accounting and level one and two and three accounting, all of those types of things. perhaps if i stead was fraud, there's a little strong of a word, because it's technically maybe legal and maybe enough gray areas to maybe not -- >> fair nunchts essentially what's not true. it aloud the financial companies and that's where all this was, to basically report whatever they wanted to. a lot of these problems were sort of hidden. they were there, but you couldn't really get a sense of what they were. and then we get back to the regulators not having done their job. and there's a lot of reasons we're in this mess. the question is what are we going to do to get out of it? >> bill black, where do you begin to answer that question? >> well, first, it was fraud, and it is prosecutable, and in the savings and loan crisis for

very similar actions we were able to convict for felonies over 1,000 elite business people. so it is a scandal we haven't done it here. first thing we need to do here is to stop lying. all right? so when this crisis hit, we didn't just bail them out. we hid it off balance sheet. so we own, for example, 79.9% of fannie and freddie so we don't have to consolidate their debt into the united states for recognition purposes. that's a pure scam. we changed the accounting rules so banks don't have to recognize the losses, but that just allows the losses to fester and makes them bigger and it means that you have all of these zombie major institutions like bank of america going around committing one fraud after another in the foreclosure process. >> hello. >> bill fleckenstein, hang on one second. >> go ahead, bill black. >> all right.

so you've got pervasive fraud that causes the crisis. the government responds to fraud with its own fraud about lying about things. timmy geithner has been going around for three years now, roughly, saying, boy, i saw the entire cris involved the entire crisis by using smoking mirrors. the markets are telling you you didn't solve the problem. we need to remember the original stimulus bill had a good republican idea in it adopted by president obama, and that was -- that republican idea was revenue sharing. everybo everybody knew there was a crisis comes and it was critical we fund it from the federal government. that was in the bill. republicans and blue dog conservative democrats insisted on killing it, and the obama

administration gave up without a fight in a single day. >> bill fleckenstein, understanding the complexity and layering, almost roman in the breach of integrity and values of every level of the financial system, where would you recommend we begin the process of reconciling this debt and beginning to work our way through it towards prosperity? >> well, you know, smo you have to have an honest accounting. i mean, it's so hard. the politicians are so polarized. we have to -- the public has to be aware -- look, we got a $50 billion, $60 billion unfunded liability that's not going away. we have to get at, you know, solving aft these problems. we have to close tax loops. i could give it to you simplicity. flat tax, tort reform, term limits and then maybe we have a chance, but to get from here to there and the problems in between, we have to means test

social security. everybody's going to have to give up something, and i don't see how -- my problem is, i know the crisis will get big enough to start to solve these problems. i don't think they're insolvable. i don't know how we get the politicians to speak up and face the problem and stop being democrats, and republicans and just say, we have to solve this. >> listen, i suspect that the three of us will be having these conversations for weeks if not months to come. i appreciate both of you, bill fleck. stein on phone and bill black in studio as we now deal with the echo effect of the bailouts of 2008 and predicated on toxicity and fraud. the cover-up of those bailouts, predicated on toxicity and fraud and the imminent unraveling of the totality of those things as a result of our own government's running out of ways to cover it up, and yet still there is no

investment, production or jobs in this country. it is clear there is another way. we just have to find it. the downgrade here comes finger pointing, because why would they listen to any of the conversation we're having here? we know they point the finger to get power from the other guy in d.c. is there anyone that can lead this country out? also ahead a double whammy for america this weekend. not only with the debt downgrade bought horrific chopper crash in afghanistan. what are we doing in that country? plus, real-life superheroes actually out there to save humanity, and they might just be your neighbors. a little later in the show. i love that my daughter's part fish. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists,

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is there a risk the united states could lose its aaa credit rating? >> no risk of that. >> standard & poor's is wrong, the united states will keep its aaa credit rating. >> absolutely. >> see, the reason we're in such good shape as a country is because we have the custodial authority and courage of our treasury secretary, tim geithner. who was wrong for the umpteenth time going back to 200 as we discussed ad nauseam. perhaps now the president is figures out just how toxic company he has been keeping with his treasury secretary from the looks of unemployment and the

financial markets. what was a mega panel thinking? senior political columnist for the washington examiner tim carney and msnbc contributor and host of the majority report, tim carney. you can cover it up, run, you can hide. but the market ultimately, when the government runs out of tricks judges you on whether you are, in fact, cultivating prosperity. is there investment, it there production? obviously we know, there is not. >> and the stock market today, i was shocked, down 600 points. the interesting thing is, the treasuries are up. people want to invest in the u.s. government. >> let's stop there. because that's interesting. because they want to invest in the u.s. government and it is the only place that is guaranteed flow of money from the central bank. >> yes. exactly right. >> if it was you were concerned about real risk in the universe, the stock market, not so good. no guarantee there's. the only place that has guaranteeses is the printing presses of the american government and that's why people

are piling into treasuries at the same time it is the printing presses of the american government that be preventing us have having, from dealing with the actual problems we have. >> fundamentally, my big worry, not the downgrade. that's symbolic. my worry is the euro zone. the world's second largest economy. it going to have to make a really big decision coming up very soon about whether or not the euro is -- whether they go full out for the euro. the euro leaders want the market to continue, and -- >> right. >> and you're a skeptic. and i'm mothre worried about europe than i am the united states. >> here's how i feel. huge risk to the american economy. >> which we are seeing. >> absolutely. 100%. loufr, jean-claude trichet and the european bank had every opportunity and investment to

preserve the euro. those who want to leave it, the italians, maybe the greek, we don't want to deal with it. the fact is the moment jean-claude treesh heir wajea jean-claude trichet walks into the room and will buy every greek, italian bond, much like ben bernanke relieved our problems in 2008, trichet is eventually do the same thing. no one wants to buy our national debt. the central bank does but it does go to the actual problem, hiding in treasureries or resolution in europe we are not getting investment, not getting production and not getting employment in western europe or in north america. >> all right, well, first of all, i think the bottom line is, that the story we were, have been told about our debt and our deficit as being problematic is a lie. i mean --

>> how so? >> the fact of 9 matter is -- >> a lie it's a problem or what it's origins are? >> a lie insofar as we were told we need to get the debt and deficit down because we won't get loans. >> a complete lie. with a reserve currency. >> exactly. complete lie. the bottom line is the question is, with this money they're printering, where's it going? >> right. >> it needs to go to create demand. we need more government spending. not give it to the banks to create loans -- >> i disagree. you're on the right track -- >> we have a demand problem. >> i disagree with the second part. i agree we're creating trillions and need to figure where they're going. and the trillions are going to the hole in the bucket which is the banking system. >> right. >> that oversees trade agreements and the rigged tax code, which is then prosperous for a few and to our detriment. >> inflation is another form of default. >> right. >> even barack obama's fund-raisers warren buffett

said, we are going to pay our debts, maybe we're going to repay them by inflating. >> yes. >> that means everybody is in horror except for the people with the inflated dollar. >> hold on. >> you should be upset about inflation. it first goes into the banks. banks get the money before the prices go up. >> i don't want to talk about too many things. it's complex enough as it is. at the root of our problem, a lack of prosperity in america. >> yes. >> we all agree to that. at the root of prosperity the opportunity to drive investment and problem solving and anything in order to make that happen. >> and -- >> we know problem solving being correlated to what people actually want. >> and 100%. unequivocally, yes, yes, yes, but we are creatoring trp trillions of dollars of capital, have been since 2008 and instead of that capital going into environment, that goes to solve problems that people have, that goes to solve problems that we have collectively in energy, health care, infrastructure, whatever it is, however it's worked out, we'll instead of

doing that, that this president, barack obama, that this cabinet, treasury secretary geithner and all the other it's, secretary of state clinton, et cetera, made the conscience decision to allow the trillions of dollars they made up to get funneled into that broken system that was exposed in 2008 as opposed to engaging in the type of debate that we're dancing around the edge of right now, which is how do you reverse the flow and the fraud, which we should have done in 2008. >> you start with the notion that inflation is such a boogeyman. a little of inflation would be nice to help wages and -- >> careful what you wish for. what are you going to say when i give you the $50 loaf of bread because of currency devaluation? then you want some inflation? >> do you really think -- >> yeah i do. >> where's it going to do. >> let me explain. basically on the chinese finance minister, the saudi arabia finance minister, indian finance minister and witnessing america

basically abusing its status as a reserve currency to a level that is incomprehensible in the manufactures of trillions ever dollars, manipulation of the tax code and pushing all the money. let me finish. i'm watching this and know for a fact my barrel of oil is still a bear of oil. i know my bushel of corn is still a bushel of corn, my bundle of cocoa is still a bundle of cocoa but i'm trapped in a global trading market priced in u.s. dollars, because that's how it's been since world war ii. i now have is a government that is exploiting the fact that everybody's trapped in that marketplace to print that money and still maintain available financing because there's nowhere else to go. well, the first and only mission for china, saudi arabia, brazil and the middle east over the next five years -- it's to create a bypass trading currency so that they can exchange oil, cocoa, corn, wheat, rubber, soy, in something that is not u.s. dollars. that can't do that today.

they probably won't do it next year, however, the moment that they do, do that, the price of wheat, a loaf of bread, in dollars, the price of a gallon of gas, in dollars, goes from the total protection to the $50 loaf -- >> my point is that's the -- >> that's what we're playing with. >> i understand. there are ways to put checks on it. >> why don't we, instead are fighting hyperinflation, reform the system encourage invermont and job creation? >> i agree. >> why are we argues about something stupid like that when we should be talking about investment and production? >> i don't think it's that big -- >> and cultivate it? >> no indications of it. >> fair enough. don't bring it up. there's a conversation to be had. >> we're not defaulting now. >> on what? >> defaulting to our promise on social security and medicare, we're being set ut right now this whole time -- >> i agree. i totally agree, but, again, at the end of the day, let's calm

it down a touch. is there any -- one-word answer. does anybody see a single politician that sifts right now that will say they'll lead us out of this? anybody? >> not before november 2012. >> you mean november 2012 -- magically, a year from now somebody else will do it? >> a second term obama would then have more freedom, i think. >> more freedom? the banking cover-up he's done? the whole banking cover-up and corruption was a deliberate act on his part? >> three guys to combine. one, simpsons bowles, paul ryan a fix on medicare and another is tom coburn, a fix on taxes. >> tom coburn i like. quick? >> defaulting to the middle class. basically what it is. a default is -- >> you're not answering my question. is there a politician working today that can lead america out of thesis problems? >> note that i know of. >> i agree with sam. what type of leader does it take to problem solve through complex challengeseik a little

bit off your rocker. be sure to check out, dylanratigan.com, speaking of off your rocker, for jobs wanted. our special report on trade, taxes and banking. three areas we must address to bring investment and prosperity back to america. but is there any political will when it comes down to it? sthats the question we're pitting out there. tell us what you think on the twitter at dylan ratigan and facebook. whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done. open an account today and put schwab mobile to work for you.

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joining us today, our specialist, author of "first rate madness" uncovering the listening between leadership and mental health. a pleasure to have you here. we did an inform survey of the table. a dearth of potential leaders being bandied about to solve obviously a daunting set of problem. give us your sense ever how and

where leadership emerges? >> well, in my work i'm trying to find what seemed to characterize great leaders in the past i found they often had mania or depression. manic depression and studies show the types of leadership types that come out of manic depression, realism in empathy, for more in depressed people occurs with depression and mania and both mood states can help prove. >> manic depressives make good leaders? >> more realistic, pathic and creative and resilient. >> anybody -- seems the core issue we're dealing with, we don't seem to be able to identify leaders who have the depression characteristics to see hats going on. not that they have to be depressed necessarily. i have yet to see a politician walk out who said, listen, all this we're doing, maybe ron paul to a certain extent, bernie sanders to a certain extent,

maybe coburn but certainly not the leadership on the democratic or republican side. >> from a perspective, always a pessimism. you know, things are generally getting worse. and ronald reagan came in, found a way to turn conservatism into a hopeful optimism. does the political need for, you know, morning in america, hope and change, does that cut against the ability to have the traits you're talking about that are needed? >> i think it does. these traits aren't just on the left or right pap good example, winston churchill, very conservative, but during world war ii, just before world war ii, very realistic and pessimistic and no one wanted to hear it in the 1930s. yes, when people talk about optimism and needing to be optimistic all the time, all that. >> great campaigning. barack obama became president on that, but obviously has no capacity for a realistic assessment of what actually is wrong with this country. go ahead imejeanne?

>> and the black dog, call it, got us through war. britain got rid of churchill as soon as the war was over because of optimism and national health care and so forth. different leaders for different times has to be the case. >> exactly. crisis leadership. >> yeah. >> non-crisis times times of peace and prosperity, mentally healthy, average, normal people is what we want and they function fine. when the past no longer predicts the futch e you need someone different. >> in america, someone with a bit of a mental health -- i don't want to sound -- >> the nights thing, having this test is actually the wrong way to choose a leader for these times. >> i'm curious as to how someone who is relatively sane becomes president of the united states? i mean, how does someone sort of have that desire and -- literally work -- >> i guess -- >> and a misconception. we wanted to have a beer with george bush. george w. bush. >> not all of us, but go ahead. >> because he was like them.

that's the way you pick a leader who's like the majority of the population, by definition average insane. everybody has -- a lot of people have ambition and come from families well to do. easier to rise to the top in times of peace and prosperity, the mentally healthy, interpersonally successful rise to the top and become president. the majority of our president were mentally healthy but not very good. >> where does narcissism fit in? an incredibly dysfunction ego to say, i should run the free world? >> narcissism i don't view as a mental illness. it's a metaphor. >> okay. >> i don't use it. that's not wait i'm looking at it. >> as a doctor you don't think that's a real diagnose? >> i don't. psychoanalysts do. that's not the approach i'm taking. >> and the essential of your point, however, is that true leadership in crisis, whether it was through the civil war, whether it's the references to churchill in world war ii, or whether it is now a time of

crisis in america that is, relates to a prosperity crisis a debt crisis, however you want to define this, in those intervals, that that is where you need the most creative and at the same time most brutally honest leaders? >> and to get those leaders we have to get out of the mind-set of picking people who are average and like us. we have to get beyond the stigma, a deep prejudice -- >> that goes to the reference tim carney, the best way to get elected run a $1 billion funded campaign with wealll-produced media that lies to the entire population on manipulation of either hope or optics of creating security and personal fear, whatever the manipulation might be, both of which remarkably effective at becoming president and both remarkably effective putting presidents in or completely avoided our problems or made them worse. i don't see how your manic

depressive, maybe the perfect president, can interact way campaign apparatus that demands the level of emotional manipulation and lying effectively that's knows achieve it what these guys were asking. any way to reconcile that? >> a good point. i haven't thought about that issue. >> good thing you came to visit with us. >> yes. >> anybody have any other questions? >> highwow do we make our curre president crazy? >> he's been pack achd no drama obama. just in a normal, but if that's what he is he may not be up to the task we're facing. looking at memoirs written before he bap president, he could be more complex than that and could surprise us. >> wouldn't anyone who wrote a memoir before the age of ooh 50 be rather screwed up anyway? >> possibly. >> something to think about. writing memoirs and haven't hit 50 yet, there's more to life that might well continue to happen. >> i will say this. i don't think the issue is not having the leaders. they're out there.

it's that the people aren't in the right mind-set an campaign folks to try to fiend he's leaders. >> they could be sitting in front of us and we won see them because we're keyed up on you're a jerk, no, you're a jek, you're a jerk. my idea, no, my idea, no, your idea. >> that's right. >> it's so fun. >> my idea. >> excuse me. as long as my values and my goal, i'll use your values anytime. pleasure to see all of you here. i'll use any idea, noor matter that works and gets us where we're going. we're going to take a break here from all of this craziness and look at a bunch of apes and what that can tell us about american prosperity. woman: day care cane expensive.

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>> those dirty apes swung in and beat box office prikzs to claim the number one spot this weekend. the tale of simians bringing in the fifth highest opening for a movie in august ever. aggressive ad campaign that included people dressing up as goril gorillas, hanging bangers, the apes my rise, and a conversation with a certain msnbc anchorman on the opening day which really put them over the top. more than anything, success from the painstaking production to the massive marketing campaign shows a core american value remains intax. show up with your a-game and deliver a new product, americans will show up as well. coming up, superheroes out to save humanity. [ male announcer ] members of the american postal workers union

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well, so much bad news he's in days. ever find yourselves wishing someone out there was shielding you from harm? good news is, there actually may be. >> i do not have any superpowers. doing superdeeds. that's what makes you a superhero. >> i am the ka nund drin. >> national ledge ntd. >> a crime-fighting real life super hero. >> that's right.

living, breathing super heroes fighting crime, walking the streets, protecting the innocent. and trying to make our world a better place. our next guest interviewed and even went on patrol with these masked men and women and hopes his new film inspires viewers to both respect these real-life super heroes and create change in their own community. joining you mike the barnett director of the hbo documentariary super heroes" debuts this evening. what sort of super powers are you able to document in this particular project? >> yeah. well, i think the project ended up documenteding their lack of super powers. with great intentions. >> elaborate a little bit. what sort of intent were you able to document, even if the powers themselves came up short? >> yeah. i mean, this is -- it's a vast community nationwide community that exists, and in every major city in america, about ordinary

citizen whose take on superhero personas and go out and try to make their communities a better place. had we started the film we looking at it in a little bit more of a two-dimensional way, where i thought we going to document this sort of pop culture movement, but i think we found something of hue manlt and a little more profound than that. >> a little of what you captured in that regard. 134 of your shooting in brooklyn. take a look at this. >> this is me acting out a need i feel, and i feel something needs to be done, whatever it may be. i'm just looking at the corruption i see everywhere i look. whether it is at work or the dude next door beating his wife and been doing it for 20 year. it's all the little things and we moved to brooklyn because we figure it's a large enough area where we can have much more to actually focus on. nypd, even the government itself

is completely unrivaled. i'm here to do something, do anything. >> how much does his motivation really through a lot of the people you document, poors through in -- >> i'm sorry. say that again. >> how much does his motivation to do something on some corruption level, that corruption has so invaded his community, whether the police, his boss, his neighbor, how much does that narrative, that intention, that inspiration manifest in others in your film? in other words, is he the only person out there doing this because he feels he has a moral foundation for his work? >> no. i think that -- i think it's partly why they all do it. i hate to make jengeneralizatio about the community, but ultimately we found these people do it because it stems from some tragedy or trauma that happened in their lives, and once they start to sort of overcompensate

sort of for that tragedy and in becoming a real-tif super hero they get addicted to the altruism and anonymity of it, and it become as bit of a mission statement as well for them. >> do you think -- is it a -- i suppose it is, to corollate all of the news coverage and all of the obvious unfairness, whether corruption or not, but a per vaesive sense of unfairness in the relationship between our government, our business community, individually, inside the educational system, inside the health care system. there's the prevalence of the sense that the system is unfair that it works to the benefit of somebody who's probably not you and there's really not a damn thing you can do about it? >> yeah. i mean, you're exactly right. this movement has been birthed because of the time and place we're in. this state of america has given rise to people who are fed up with bureaucracy and don't believe help it coming from the

top inmore. certainly not in an effective way and they're taking it upon themselves to make change and from the bottom up. >> the greatest risk, of course, the bottom up concept particularly when it comes to things like crime fighting, you end up with only more danger than your manifesting vigilante, people highly motivated entirely unregulated and potentially armed exercising individual judgment. how much of a risk is that? how real was that? >> it's very real, and it's a huge risk. every single one of these super heroes has a different approach. some are really aggressive in their crime fighting. particularly the new york initiative, the group we found in new york. they dress up members of their team provocatively. they dress up in openly gay male and female and parade them on the streets hoping they're get accosted in some way to subdue the attacker.

it's very provocative. other superheroes like mr. extreme down in san diego. a very different approach. he's really cognizant of the laws and people's rights and doesn't infringe upon them and he's there to be more of a deterrent with his presence. there's a lot of different approaches with the community. >> and you keep calling it a community. is there an organization inside of it that, e thr connected to each other in any way? >> yeah. she certainly are. a very loosely based community. there's a lot of online forums and chat rooms, they're all aware of each other. they all look out for each other and they all help each other with knowledge they're gaining in their own communities and they share that. so they can all evolve in how to be more effective together. >> understood. michael, a pleasure to make the acquaintan acquaintance, albeit by way of remote on televisions and congratulations on premiering the film on hbo. debuting tonight at 9:00 p.m. the film, or, yeah, the film

called "super heroes." you're looking at the director irright there. thank you to, michael. coming up here orch "hardball," the second act in the wake of the debt downgrade for obama. first, kelli goff putting down her foot about another injustice in our society. have i got a surprise for you! a mouthwatering combination of ingredients... i know you're gonna love. [ barks ] yes, it's new beneful healthy fiesta. made with wholesome grains, real chicken, even accents of tomato and avocado. yeah! come on! [ barking ] gotta love the protein for muscles-- whoo-hoo! and omega-rich nutrition for that shiny coat. ever think healthy could taste so good? [ woman announcing ] new beneful healthy fiesta.

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we'll finish this monday

with a daily rant with no further ado, keli goff. >> hey, dylan. we ladies clearly don't have enough to worry about when it comes to our body image. in addition to our size our tummies our rear ends, our chests and faces, the media has helpfully pointed out another body part we are supposed to feel insecure about. our feet. according to a new study isn't the daily mail half of our women lie to both their friends and sexual partners about their shoe size, and two-thirds say they are embarrassed to ask associates for assistance in shoe stores meaning shoe size officially joined wait as a dirty little secret we keep from everyone but our doctor. it would have a direct connection to our health and fitness and most have control over there is very little we can do to affect what size shoe we wear. so why do we care? i i'm not expert although as a proud 5'11" with an 11 size shoe, i could be an expert and have a theory.

despite the tremendous strides women have made in employment and compensations there is still some fairy tales we are all supposed to buy into that reinforced sage old stereotypes. one stereotype more than any other, talking about the disney classic "cinderella." despite everything women accomplish and our woen we're supposed to wait patiently for prince charming to ride in and solve our problem, but only if the shoe fits. my point is no matter how much we achieve there are key things we are expected to check as part of being a "lady." for some, not outearning your man, for others not outsizing him in the shoe department. as we get taller as a species, our fashion and beauty icons are getting taller, too. there are plenty of women who epitomize femininity too couldn't fit into cinderellas glass slipper, among them heidi klum and first lady michelle obama believed to wear about a

size 10 shoe. 9 next time your boyfriend, girlfriend or sales associate asks your shoe size, ladies, say it loud and proud. it's either real prince charm hoog will not only live you anyway but go out of his way to find shoes that for his queen instead of forcing his queen to squeeze into that uncomfortable looking glass slipper. >> the interesting thing you hit on in there was the sense of advancement and equality with women simultaneous to the desire to feel in certain categories for certain women at certain time as level of submission to prince charming? and that this shoe in some way is a metaphor for this? is what what you're saying? >> this concept we're large and in charge when it comes to dating. the cnn yang we keep. grappling. open the door, pay for dinner but we're own other independent woman. >> look at recent american cull chir history, at the same time, and commercial sales history, it

seems that the easiest way to make money is to make people feel either fearful or insecure about anything. >> absolutely. that's right. >> what if you get hit by a terrorist? better spend all the money on terrorism. what if you're going to get sick for this. what if you're going to get sick thoor? take this drug. it fixes things we haven't thought of yet but i'm afraid of a disease i my think of. take that this drug to feel better. if i make women feel crappy about their feet i can create a dynamic of product. >> right. >> to help them with their feet. >> and surgery. surgery. it's like, we want plastic, liposuction to be tinier. ten year ago. j. lo and beyonce, everybody's getting surgery to get back sides larger. another thing on the list. it's another thing. what are you going to do? >> i think until we'll actually -- on some level, take personal possession of their own existence, there's nothing to do, right? other than hope that you yourself can take possession of your own existence and