million, 10 million or $100 million to try to elect romney to be president there is nothing stopping them anymore. and we may never know if they do that. tonight, again, on msnbc,

bad times. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, show us your plan, mr. president. really it doesn't matter whether s&p was right or wrong to downgrade america's credit rating, does it? markets agree. we have a problem. the dow plunged almost 635 points today on the first day of trading after s&p's downgrade. it was the dow's worst day since december 1, 2008. good evening americans and welcome to the ed show. great to have you with us in madison, wisconsin. the eye of the storm for the fight of the middle class in this country. while the focus, the world focus is on wall street, the people of this great state of wisconsin and this broadcaster are fighting for main street. for eight months, wisconsin ites have been under scott walker.

ten hours from now, wisconsin voters have a chance to go to the polls and recall six republican state senators and take money out of the pockets of hundreds of thousands of middle class state workers in the state. less than 24 hours from now, wisconsin voters could send shock waves into every republican house in the country. this is still ground zero for the fight for the middle class in america. these people didn't cause the s&p to downgrade our country. they didn't put wisconsin and america in a deep financial hole. these are people who go to work every day, pay their taxes and try to make a better life for the next generation. this is not -- this is not the face of greed in america. this is the face of everything that is absolutely correct with

america [ cheers and applause ] this is ground zero for citizens united. outside groups have poured millions of dollars into the six races and some experts think the dollar total could go as high as $40 million. i guess you could say this is karl rove versus the unions. this is freedom works, head-to-head against grass roots organizations in the state. here is the tale of the tape. democrats need to win at least three of the races to recapture the wisconsin state senate. wisconsin's second senate dis rick, rob cowles versus the democrat. in the 18th district, state senator randy hopper against jessica king. over in lacrosse, wisconsin, antiunion dan kapanke trying to

fend off democratic challenger jennifer schilling. in the tenth district in river falls, sheila harsdorf against shelly moore. the two hottest races at this hour are alberta darling holding on for her political life from hard charging democratic state representative sandy pasch. republican luther olsen who hasn't had to face a democrat in 16 years faces fred clark a democrat. when you look at what has unfolded in this state over the last six months, i offer to you tonight, viewers, this is a micro cosm of what's happening in the country. i believe wisconsin is fighting back against citizens united.

these americans here in wisconsin, they have done the due diligence. they have fought back against a radical agenda. maybe they didn't know what they were voting for in november, 2010. in january, they found out what they voted for. what was presented to them was nothing but an attack on the middle class. this is a state rich in tradition when it comes to respecting workers, respecting debate and those with a different opinion. many of wisconsin feels that has been lost in this war. the ideological war, the political war, the heart and soul of america, the ideological fight for the middle class in this country, which we have talked about so many times on this program. fasten your seatbelts, america, tomorrow we are going to find out a lot. if scott walker's republicans are victorious, what kind of message does this send to ohio?

what kind of message does it send to the radical agenda of rick snyder in michigan? how would it empower people like chris christie to stand-up in front of new jersey and say what they are doing in wisconsin is what we need to do here and across america. the rising star in the republican party could be the governor from wisconsin. these people will decide a lot of that tomorrow. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's test question, will wisconsin democrats win enough seats to take back the state senate? we'll bring the results later on in the show. joining me now is john nichols, washington correspondent for "the nation" magazine. also joining us is wisconsin state representative fred clark challenging republican state

senator luther. also joining us, sandy pasch running against alberta darling. she joins us tonight from milwaukee. great to have you all with us. john, let's start with you. there are polls all over the board. give us a sense of what you think the turnout is going to be like tomorrow and the chance the democrats have of unseating these six republicans. >> throw the polls out. you can't poll races that are unprecedented. you have never had anything like this. all we know is both sides are energized. there is energy on the republican side. it strikes me that i have never seen the level of grass roots energy that is going on in races like fred clark up in portage, over in milwaukee where sandy pasch is running. it makes me believe something remarkable could happen tomorrow.

we are talking about six republican districts, districts drawn for republicans, they have elected republicans sometimes for generations. if we see these seats fall, one, two, three, four, five, six, if that happens, that will be american history. >> what evidence do you have other than tremendous crowd and enthusiasm, what evidence do you have that it will be a big turn out tomorrow? >> i did a 1,000 mile drive throughout the week. i have been through all the districts. i can tell you, in every one of the districts, the signs are up in every yard. the people are on the street. when you go to the coffee shops and cafes, this is what they are talking about. this is a statewide referendum on scott walker's agenda. it's a referendum that was forced by the people.

it's unprecedented. there's no doubt, the turn out is going to be incredible. the challenge we are going to have, the real challenge we are going to have is counting the votes tomorrow night. it's going to take awhile. >> that good of a turnout? >> i think so. >> fred clark, great to have you with us on "the ed show." you are challenging luther olsen who has not had competition for years on end. it's been 16 or 17 years he's not had competition? >> in his career. go back 116 years and you can't find a democrat that's represented that district. you can't. how do you feel going into it? >> i did my own poll at a corn roast. in two hours greeting folks in line to eat sweet corn, i shook hands and said hi to folks. everybody knows this race.

they are planning to vote. people are engaged like they haven't seen in years and years. >> do you think what happens today on wall street and what's happened in the market in the last few weeks is going to be a motivating factor for turn out? do people view this as wall street versus main street? do they see the severity of the outcome and what it means for the rest of the country? >> the lessons people can take from wall street, in washington, the elected leaders cannot work together and took this to the brink before crafting a deal that no one was happy with at the end of the day. they expect us to do better than that in madison. in extreme partisanship we have seen this year is something voter after vote, whether republican or democrat says to me, we expect you to go to madison and solve the problems and work together. >> yeah. also joining us is state representative sandy pasch. sandy, great to have you with us tonight.

>> good to be here. >> there's tremendous enthusiasm throughout the state. both sides have worked hard to get the vote out. the tea party groups have come in the state the last four days. it's bolster john fitsz gerald. he says republicans will keep control of the senate. he said no question about it. what is your response to that? >> i think he's misinformed. obviously, he hasn't been in my district and talking to the people and seeing the level of enthusiasm we have. he's just wrong. [ applause ] >> sandy, alberta darling, your opponent tomorrow, alberta darling is as close to scott walker's ideas than anybody.

has this helped your campaign? how are you going to beat alberta darling? >> well, i'm going to beat her because people really expected her to step up to use her 20 years of experience, her roll on joint finance to fight for the people in the state of wisconsin. she didn't. she let them down. she didn't listen. she was more in step with scott walker instead of the people with the district. special interest money has been pouring in. they see senator darling as someone who did bidding and they are going to be losing. >> john nichols, final question. the money that has come from out of state, how wisconsin has responded to this. this is citizens united on steroids. >> this is the first citizens

united that this country has seen. they have blown out the limits. most wisconsin ites have turned it off. some are knocking on doors. >> thank you for your time tonight. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen. what do you think about all of this. the wisconsin 14, the democratic state senators who fled the state to block the republicans radical agenda. those brave democrats lost the battle. but may be winning the war. that's next. and the founder of the tea party has been psycho talking all over wisconsin. he says liberals killed a billion people over the country. stay with us. [ male announcer ] this...is the network --

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we're back here in madison, wisconsin. we have a great crowd on hand here on the eve of what could be historical vote tomorrow in the state of wisconsin. coming up, the state senators who started it all. the members of the wisconsin 14 are here. we'll get their take on the historical recall election. stay with us, we'll be right back. ncer ] secret scent expressions combines odor protection with a beautiful lavender scent. amazing microcapsules absorb odor and release scent any time you need it, keeping you fresh all day. secret scent expressions. also in body splashes. [ male announcer ] if you're in a ford f-150 and you see this... it's the end of the road. the last hurrah. it's when ford's powertrain warranty ends. but in this ram truck, you've still got 39,999 miles to go.

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this. >> i don't know where he is. i have no idea where mark miller is. >> ladies and gentlemen, at your undisclosed location, may i say this crowd is behind you 100%? >> this is the heart of america, wisconsin. >> it's more of an insult. >> president obama is going to have a harder time getting elected in wisconsin. >> a bunch of people with these free loaders. >> we're thinking about the crowd, planting some troublemakers. >> we thought about that. >> early friday morning, the bill passed the assembly after a switch vote. some democrats were waiting to speak on the legislation. >> no! no! >> this is ground zero for labor in this country. madison, wisconsin.

we are back in madison, wisconsin. that was a montage of all the things wisconsin has been through. across america, the big question tonight is can wisconsin really do it? i think it's well documented the fight for the middle class has taking over in this country. the corporate favors out there. now the outsourcing and the attack on wages, the attack on pensions and health care. across the board, where as the top 2%, they skip off again scott-free. when you take someone's voice away in the workplace, when you tell americans they can't stand-up for themselves and collectively bargain, it cuts to the root of what make this is country great. the ordeal in wisconsin, the

radical agenda of governor walker was so strong they stepped forward and said we need to change how people talk about their jobs. we need to change about how people talk about their livelihood. we need to get on their kitchen table. i thought republicans didn't want government intrusion. it's all they want in wisconsin. ohio, i know you are watching. ohio, i know you want senate bill five to go down. it will go down. it will. a financial manager, a financial manager is being appointed to cities in the state of michigan if they don't like the way the budget is being run. >> yep. >> the cuts on education. the attack on education. you know what's great for americans? when it comes to public education, one of the greatest foundations of america is when the doors open in public education, everybody is welcome. >> right. >> everybody is welcome. [ cheers and applause ]

>> the rich, the gifted, the challenged, the poor. but for some reason, we have -- we are now seeing the roots of a movement in this country step up and say to america in generic terms, public education is bad, we shouldn't fund it anymore. kay sick in ohio, snyder in michigan, scott in florida, christie in new jersey. they want to cut public education? why? to make the bottom line look good. these americans knew what it meant to the country, not only the state of wisconsin. they were brave enough to go on the firing line and go across state lines to stop the radical agenda so the american people can get ahold of what is going on.

the question now is, do enough wisconsinites get it? do enough people in michigan get it? do enough in ohio get it? across the heartland get that washington is not functional anymore and dysfunction is being taken away by radical republicans driving the same agenda that paul ryan is driving out of the state of wisconsin. they want a voucher? they want a voucher? medicare? they are after the new deal. these are the american that is made it happen. these folks will go down in the history books, these 14 americans. what is going to happen tomorrow? >> we are going to win, ed. we are going to take back the senate. we are going to take back wisconsin. we are coming for scott walker. >> is this about scott walker or about the agenda?

what is it? >> the rebirth of the progressive movement. they thought they buried us. wisconsin citizens are showing the rest of the nation the pathway of the progressive agenda. >> there is a facility across the street from here with your last name on it. your family has done a lot for wisconsin over the generations. you have never seen anything like this before. what happened? >> we are going to win. we are going to take all six of them. in my 50 years in the state senate, i have never seen the enthusiasm, the energy. we have the energy and enthusiasm. >> what is your response to mr. fitzgerald who says they are keeping it? >> he doesn't know what he's talking about. >> mark miller, how do you view tomorrow. why are these people here? >> they have decided they are going to take the state back. it's their decision. they are going to make the decision tomorrow.

>> well, the turnout. how do you judge what the turnout is going to be. the state has never been through anything like this before. i mean it's august 9th tomorrow. who wants to talk about politics? hell, i just got off a fishing trip. is wisconsin in tune with us? >> wisconsin is going to stun the country tomorrow. >> yeah! >> senator, what do you think? >> i think a lot of the rural people are starting to wake up. that's part of the problem. rural people oftentimes vote republican and vote against their own interests and they are starting to wake up. they say i voted for scott walker, i wanted a change, but this is not what i had in mind. >> president obama said people voting their fears and guns and gays and all that. are we seeing that unravel here in wisconsin?

>> what we are seeing is the beginning of the division we have had. we have had a wedge driven between rural people. rural people are starting to wake up. if it happened to this guy, it could happen to me, too. what happens to one guy affects everybody. >> you just finished a 1,000 trip across wisconsin. what did you hear? >> people are enthused, excited and they are going to hold the republicans accountable. you have democrats and republicans standing up to what walker did and his rubber stamps. when they stand-up and fight, we will win. we are going to show the country that tomorrow. >> what about the money that poured into the state? do you think it will help the republicans turn out? >> no. they have cut down the debate in the assembly, locked people out of the capital. i don't think they can buy their way out by dumping money into the state. >> what have the cuts to education meant?

>> it's been devastating. take the money away then talk about how bad the public schools are. pump up the for profit schools. it's known for a phenomenal k-12 education system. >> any regrets about leaving? if you had not left, what would have happened? >> we would be sitting here licking our wounds. what we have instead is a popular uprising that is going to take back the state tomorrow. >> it's all about the turnout. you have had $40 million that has been put into the state from outside interest groups trying to get the vote out. we'll see if it works. stay with us. we are back with more from madison, wisconsin on "the ed show" on msnbc. what's up, smart?

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the tea party nation is trying to get out the tea party vote by pedalling the group of people protesting against governor walker at the wisconsin state fair to not see storm troopers. he called them the left's modern version of brown shirts. brown shirts? just tin phillips is saying wisconsin standing up for teachers are equivalent to hitler's men? go back to the liberals are evil thing. >> i detect and despise everything the left standing for. how anyone can endorse and embrace an ideology that killed those people is beyond me. >> that nonsense shows between the two sides. liberals are using the

democratic process to fight for the rights of working folk. wingnuts from the tea party nation to trample the rights. calling hard working americans nazis and saying they killed a billion people is desperate. michele bachmann says we should blame president obama for the recent credit downgrade. the tea party here in wisconsin disagrees with her. they say the blame, they say blame the tea party. we are here today because of scott walker's agenda. will enough voters show up tomorrow to reject it? get out the vote effort with one of wisconsin's bravest. stay with us. every day, all around the world,

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to help you achieve more balance. interested? let's talk. looking good. (bike bell) i believe, this is without question the tea party downgrade. this is the tea party downgrade because a minority of people in the house of representatives -- >> when standard and poor downgraded u.s. from aaa to aa plus, the agency said the refusal refuse refusal to make tax increases. the republicans are denying it and blaming the democrats instead. they know what they did. tea partiers were happy to be the cause of the economic turmoil. >> this week, i wrote it down,

they are blaming the credit downgrade on the tea party. [ cheers and applause ] >> they are calling it the tea party downgrade. >> let's bring in john nichols, washington correspondent of "the nation" magazine. john, with the dow dropping more than 600 points, at what point did the tea partiers stop worrying about economic hardships? >> i suppose about when they realize they have no retirement left and they are trying to take apart medicare, medicaid and social security. i's going to start to down on the base, maybe not the people paying for it. it's going to down on the base, they are threatening their own livelihood. >> today michele bachmann and mitt romney blamed president obama for the downgrade.

who did s&p blame? >> look at the report. it's a nine-page report. they go on great length about the inability to compromise. look what barack obama did. i think most people here would tell you barack obama probably compromised too much. he gave them -- he was giving and giving and giving. these people said no at every turn. >> what is the tea party's influence here in wisconsin? >> they brought a bus in. no, let's not underestimate it. the fact is tea party related groups have filled our mailboxes. they have filled our television sets with an immense amount of communication, millions of dollars. people here are yelling lies. i would have to agree with that. they have been here. if it wasn't for the tea party billionaires, the republicans would not be as viable as they may be at this point.

>> eric cantor told the gop to resist pressure on compromise. how long until the public pushes back on this republican refusal to compromise? >> that is -- ed, the fact is that they still fear their primary more than they fear general elections. tomorrow, wisconsin is going to have a general election where there's a strong signal about the tea party agenda. scott walker bought into it, cut, cut, cut. if he gets beat, there's going to be folks in washington that notice. >> what kind of ripple effect do you think it would have if the republicans hold a majority? what will it mean to other states? >> they are going to push hard. i have been out in the other states. ohio is going to overturn their antilabor law. >> a wisconsin victory, a wisconsin victory is going to make the struggles easier in other states. >> good to have you with us

tonight. thanks so much. it's all about voter turn out. will enough show up to the polls tomorrow to reject the walker agenda? you are watching "the ed show" live from madison, wisconsin. ♪ i'd do anything for you dear ♪ anything, yes i'd do anything ♪ ♪ anything for you ♪

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it's the biggest recall effort in state history. tomorrow wisconsin voters head

to the polls to decide whether to keep their republican state senators or send them packing. with six on the ballot, money is pouring in. the races are tight. some organizations are down playing expectations. the progressive, we are wisconsin group, warning an internal memo, quote, predictions of victory at this point are beyond premature, they are dangerous. now, it comes down to voter turnout. needless to say, the get out to vote effort has gone into overdrive for both sides. joining me to talk about that is jim, chairman for democracy of america, rick is with us, the director of ask me wisconsin council 40 and mitchell, the president of the professional firefighters of wisconsin. great to have all of you with us tonight. let's start with you mr. dean,

do you agree with the memo that it's too hard to predict? >> i think it's always too hard to predict. it comes down to turnout. i feel really, really good in the efforts we have been making over the last six weeks. ask me has done a great job out here and all over the state. the thing is turnout. if you are listening to the program and you are voting, it's great. get your family, friends and neighbors. please get them out to vote tomorrow. it's going to matter. >> what does it feel like? >> it feels terrific. we have been outdoors. i have woken quite a few people up. they were intended to vote and intended to vote for the great democrats leading the fight. >> what about the union effort. i mean, clearly, the code brother money that's come into the state, money under titles that we have never heard of before, money that can be identified, citizens united is on a roll.

what have the unions done to counter punch all of that? >> we have something they don't have. we don't have the brothers. we have all the people here tonight. >> yeah. >> all the people of wisconsin. >> what kind of infrastructure have you done. what gives you confidence that you will get a favorable turn out and favorable turn out? >> the fact you are here. we were left for dead six months ago. i have member who is voted for scott walker and a lot of the senators up for recall. now they know the truth. people have been energized. >> mr. mitchell, the president of the professional firefighters of wisconsin. it's well documented what firefighters have gone through nationwide. here in wisconsin, you engaged

in the fight actually when you weren't being targeted. what kind of response have you gotten from the people when they realize middle class professionals are under attack. is it a motivating thing when they see public service like yourself and your brothing being picked on by republican legislatures? >> we are not the only unit out there working day-to-day, knocking on doors that are exempt. we have uaw, bill and trades, painters. we have everybody coming off, hugging themselves. they are not drastically effected. it's more about firefighters and police officers. we are there for the middle class. this is a middle class fight. it's for the wisconsin ites. we didn't ask for the fight, but we will finish the fight. >> well, the enthusiasm clearly

is high. the enthusiasm is high. is it the agenda or is it governor walker? i mean, it's almost a personality issue at this point. people can lose the sight of what it's about. what about that? >> i don't talk personalities, i talk issues. the issues are he is attacks us. we are under attack. i'm not going to sit back while it happens to us. people across the state of wisconsin, we are not going to stand back and watch it. we are going to continue to fight. >> jim dean, if the recall is not successful for the democrats, the magic number is three. if you don't get threw e, what does it mean nationally? >> we keep fighting. the fact the races are as close as they are now, the activism among the voters in republican districts. the fact they are closed is

testimony. we need to keep fighting this battle here during the recall election for governor and especially ohio in november. >> a loss is a loss. how crucial is this to the progressive movement across the country. >> this is important. i'm not going to lie to you about it. i'm confident it is going to go the right way. we are going to be in the battle in ohio this fall and in michigan and a lot of other states to get it right. >> you know -- you know, what kind of influence have the brothers had on the voters? have they been a motivator? do you think they realize who they are and what has motivated them? >> i think it has. you are talking to a really wisconsin badger here. we don't like being fooled or having our democracy taking care of.

it is not the end of the world. i think we are going to win. it's not the end of the world if we don't. democracy only works if you have an active system. >> thank you for joining us tonight. when we come back, i'm going to talk to the people who made these elections happen. these people right behind me. stay tuned. you are watching "the ed show" on msnbc. could ing to geico really save you 15% or more

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great to have you back with us here in madison, wisconsin. tomorrow, a big vote is going to take place. six republicans are wondering tonight if they are going to have a job by tomorrow night. these people think they aren't going to have a job by tomorrow night. to be fair, we asked governor scott walker to come on the program tonight -- here is his response. we appreciate the offer but we'll respectfully decline it. it won't work schedule wise. we hope ed enjoys his time in the land of the super bowl champ

packers. now, in fairness, in fairness and full disclosure, i may have found something in common with the governor of wisconsin. i agree, you have a hell of a football team. there's no question about that. you do. it stops there, i can guarantee you that. your name? >> kylee. i just got married. >> are you her husband? >> yes, i am. >> what does this election mean to you? >> a lot. i'm a teacher outside madison. ever since, you know, february i have been out here and working and doing everything. >> how have you been able to maintain month after month? >> our union is strong. we have been working together and making phone calls and getting everything, petitions and things. >> is it exciting to be a part

of this? >> yeah. definitely. i was on the other end of it. i was a police officer here. the crowd was great. absolutely no need for the national guard, y'all did your thing and it worked well for us. >> what did you think when the governor said that about the national guard and all precautions taking place. i tell you, rough. >> yeah, it was a little scary when everyone came at me with smiles and handshakes, i maintained and got to see her as she made her loop. >> the pictures are lean, you know? those teachers. >> bless you for what you are doing. >> i'm a member of the iupac. >> philadelphia. >> from philadelphia? we have guys from hawaii, illinois, we have ohio out here. we have been hearing about this since day one. you think we are going to rest? we will not. we are not going to stop.

your guys are going down, sorry. >> why is it important for union folks from out of state to be in wisconsin? >> because if -- as soon as everything collapses here, guess what's going to happen next? everyone else will go down. it's not going to happen. we are not going to stand for that. we are not going to take it. >> when you heard collective bargaining was being attacked, what was your response? >> my heart stopped. it's what we stand for. it's what makes this country what it is, is it not? >> i had -- hi there. your name? >> ken. >> what do you do? >> mechanic for the city of madison. >> what does this mean to you? >> a lot. we are fighting for the future. >> in what sense? they are coming after your paycheck and retirement? >> coming after my kids teachers and their education.

>> your name, sir. >> tom. >> give us an analysis of what you think is going on here. ha is going to happen in. >> i think we have momentum and we are about to make america better. we are showing -- wisconsin is showing america how things are supposed to be done. >> you know, i had an interesting statistic put to me today on the radio show that less than one-half of 1% of the people in wisconsin make more than $250,000 a year. i want you to take a close look at these folks. we interviewed the firefighters, police officers and teachers. the hard working city workers. you have to ask yourself, be fair about this, americans. be fair. we have had two unfunded wars. two wars that were not on the budget. we have had big farma. these americans didn't cause that.

>> no! >> yet, we have people in government asking these middle class americans who don't make more than $250,000 a year, who aren't in the top 2%, we want them to give more. in your heart, can you look at me in the eye and tell me that you think that is fair? that we negotiate a debt ceiling and we can't get more revenue into the treasury when we see the income disparity in this country has grown over the last 20 years unlike anything we have ever seen before? tomorrow, america, watch wisconsin. it's what america is all about. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. i asked will ask l will wisconsin democrats win enough seats to take the senate back? 92% of you said yes. 8% of you said no.