51% to 49%. 1100 votes. think progress reporting the county officials are saying they will not have a final result in that district for at least another hour. our coverage continues with "the rachel maddow show" here on reprieve. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off tonight, make the republicans say no to jobs in their hometowns. as if we needed another reason for the president to do something. the dow up 243 at one point today but when the fed announced the economic growth was slower than expected, the dow plummeted. then surged spectacularly again. the dow ended the day up nearly 430 points, but the up-down day on wall street, how skittish the

markets are about the economy 7 that's just another reason i say that president obama needs to come up with a jobs program. needs to highlight the bridges and roads that need fixing in this country and make republican say, no, i don't want jobs in my district. the question isn't whether president obama should do it or how. i'm telling him how. show the bridge, the rotten roads, the broken down sewer and water systems. put it in their faces. the question, is when. also the political fallout. we've had three straight wave elections now. americans are angered at everyone they say from the president on down, but voters have historically thrown out just one party. not both. if there's another wave election next year, who's going to get drowned? plus, is president obama about to run a bush-style swift vote campaign? politico reports that the president's team has decided mr. romney's numbers are so weak, mr. obama's numbers are so weak, the only way to win next time, to destroy the likely challenger, who they believe is mitt romney. has hope been changed and

replaced by dig up and destroy? and on wisconsin -- in fact, on wisconsin, democrats get their chance to get even with anti-labor republican leader scott walker today. six republican state senators face recall tonight, and if the democrats can pick up three seats out there out of six, they will regain control of the state senate in wisconsin. this is more than a local fight. this is the first big fight politically of the 2012 electoral cycle. on a day president obama was at dover air force base as the bodies of the navy s.e.a.l.s were brought home, let me finish tonight with some big questions about our mission in afghanistan. i can't think of a better time to ask what exactly is it? we start with what the president should be doing about jobs. howard fineman is an msnbc political analyst and a huffington post media group editorial director. john heilemann is new york magazine the national political columnist. two heavyweights on. the dow jones industrial rallied today, a two-thirds reprieve, howard.

my question is about jobs. it seems to me that the president has a couple things he's got to do to get control of events and not just watch them, which he seems to be doing. one is, get control of the debt debate by talking honestly about what cuts need to be made and what taxes need to be raised. let's move off from that tonight. let's talk about the jobs program he need to push for right now. it seems to me that mainly it's a political challenge for right now to get the attention of the republicans force them to deal with the jobs issue, force them if necessary to say yes or not to creating jobs in their own districts. history, common sense tells us it's hard for a politician to say no to a job site in his own or her own district. how does he do it, howard? you and i know politics. doesn't the president know politics? >> well, i don't think he knows it the way you know it in this context, chris. which is that you've got to be specific. the stimulus package that famously was enacted at the

beginning of president obama's term did some good thing, but it was more like spraying water in the desert as opposed to dropping each drop of water on each seed and that's what needs to happen. you can do it the way you're proposing. as a matter of fact, i summarized your proposal and reminded the people at the white house of it, and asked them to take a look and i got the word back from senior white house official who said, well, it would depend on how it's done. and to me that's means that you need to get your action plan over there right now, because -- >> we're on television. >> they weren't dismissing it out of hand. howard, you are my friend and you, too, smiling john heilemann. you here's the plan -- i do everything aboveboard. i don't meet in the white house, never been there or been invited. here's the thing, you see a district. take the nastiest republican, red dog crazy tea party, fanatic tea party like michele bachmann. look at a bridge in her district. take a picture, get the address,

show where it needs work a bridge that needs built, she's been through this with the stimulus bill. she'll tell you and already has. will create 3,000 jobs. she's done with the stimulus bill. they all know the bill, fixing bridges, fixing roads, water system, sewage systems create jobs. put it in their face and list all the challenges in their district, all the particular public works projects that need to be done, not jobs, jobs that need to be filled work that needs to be done safety that needs to be protected. with bridges that are in safety problems right now. take that information to local newspapers, take it to local tv affiliates, blast it all over the place and demand that they vote up or down on it. demand boehner give you a vote. that way you're playing offense not defense. john heilemann, that's how you do it. that's the way we did it in the old days. put it in their face and say go ahead vote against it. you know what they do? they vote for it. that's what usually happens, or pay for it. john heilemann, that's how you get a public works program through. not gee wheeze, let's have a stimulus, or those other terms

that mean nothing. you show them the school bridge going over in september. how about we make it safe. just a thought. what's your thought? >> chris, first of all, the white house and the president's re-election committee clearly understand they need to do something politically on the jobs front, and they are in fact at the moment as howard indicated trying to figure what that should be's they are going to have some sort of jobs package they'll roll out at some point in the next couple of weeks, maybe early in september. i think the problem with your proposal, and this is something i said on the show on friday, waiting for halloween or what? what are they waiting for? >> this is not a president -- this is -- this is not a put it in their faces kind of president. and i -- i see the political mileage that you're proposing in the proposal that you're proposing, but it's so counter to the way, to the temperament of barack obama and the way he's governed.

put it in their faces? what has barack obama done that in the course of 2 1/2 years? you might argue he should start doing that and they are started to contemplate. the fork in the road, put forth a jobs package with a chance of passing or put forward something we know won't pass but can score political points with? the second of the options is one basically closer to yours, which is to say, we're going to put this forward. republicans can stonewall, they won't pass it but we'll gain by waging a fight. all i can say is, i said it a second ago, contrary to the way barack obama governed over his entire first term so far. >> and there are people that -- michael smerconish, not full mooners who will see the necessity of voting for jobs as they seek reelection. that's a thought too. i don't think it's just for show. it's to get it done. the way i look at it. >> a couple things. first of all as a native of pittsburgh, there are 900 bridges about 500 of which need

repair, i'm all for it. number one. number two, barack obama as john indicated probably should have spent for time on the chicago board of aldermen than at the university of chicago, that way he would have understood the specifics of this kind of politics as opposed to the abstraction of politics. that's number two. number three, i think john has a very good point which is the latest polls show that the republicans for all the ways they've looked barack obama looked passive and emphasized his passivity as opposed to his in your face nature, the republicans have suffered tremendously in the debt debate, and now is the time for the democrats and for barack obama to take the offensive, because the republicans have been weakened enormously in this debate. they really have.

>> this is the way i talk about it. john, just to help you understand what i'm talking about, a jobs program that gets passed. because republicans have to turn and vote for it because they have to, you've waged a progressive campaign. waiting for the weather to change politically, which seems to be what this president is doing. look at the latest "new york times" cbs poll too. 62% of americans say the country should now give higher priority to job creation as opposed to 29% who say we should be cutting spending. so at least in the current reality, they know in the long term there's a debt problem. we all do, but right now they believe the current challenge is to create jobs by not avoiding spending money but doing something with the government power, that the government has to do thing. your thoughts? >> chris, one thing they could do, in addition to just amplify your proposal, you know, match every bridge that needs repair up against parts of the tax code that the president thinks desperately need to be changed and that most of the american people want to be changed, including at the high end, including hedge fund, including the corporate jets and all the stuff that the president talks about in the abstract, twin it up with whatever projects you're talking about.

they have the computer processing power over at the white house. let them do it and show exactly how much revenue we're losing, that could be used to create the jobs you're talking about. >> let me go to the "new york times" and coincides with what i'm saying i believe. it says today, "obama should start making the case that it is foolish to focus the nation's attention solely on debt where the republicans want it and instead shift every available resource towards jobs. if he becomes passionate about the government's ability to think creatively about a turnaround, he might just inspire americans, some lawmakers to join with him if he stays locked into the arid agenda of the republicans the economy will remain as dormant at his speech on monday which is just where his rivals hope it will be in november 2012." the old argument of politics, john heilemann, if you pick the topic, you win. if you're talking about cutting spending or -- or not raising taxes, you're probably talking republican territory.

if you're talking jobs, issues that matter to people, work and wages, talking democratic territory and probably win the argument. why doesn't he he get into the argument about jobs and away from debt as the "times" suggests? >> chris, i thought he should have been waging this fight from the beginning of the administration, but i think part of the problem from their point of view is twofold. one is, we know, for instance, like on the debt, on the raising of the debt ceiling on that debate we know that the position of the tea party freshmen in the republican party was not popular in the country yet they were still able to basically, take over that debate and able to stop obama from succeeding in getting through the kind of policies that the public favored. so a small group of republicans who are not on the side of the public still have the power to

control the outcome of the policy. the other biggest problem for the president is that to take the path that you're suggesting would be tantamount to them saying, look, we got it wrong. as recently as six months ago when we put deficit reduction in the middle of this, didn't make the argument six months or 18 months ago, we were just wrong. is the policy we pursued for 18 months was the wrong -- more than that -- 2 1/2 years was the wrong policy. and you know how hard it is for any politician, particularly for a president, to say, guys i was wrong. i need to start from scratch and do something that is in total contradiction to the way i've governed so far. i just think it's going to be very hard to get barack obama to admit that. >> well, it might be hard to get him to admit it, but if he realizes his presidency is at stake he might change his mind and i think he could argue at least attempt to argue that they learn from the first stimulus that it did some good things, but now they're going to take it to a stage two and have it more focused. to repeat my analogy, not spraying the hose all over desert. making sure you put a drop on each seed that's required now and that he can talk about. the problem that he's got is that he makes more observations

that he does take actions. remember when he said two years ago, the biggest lie in government is shovel ready, because the projects weren't ready. like he was making an observation and to say the other day as he did, we're still a aaa country as though that was somehow reassuring was, again, a monument to passivity, not action. >> john to make your point, when the "titanic" was sinking that horrible night that ship went down, a lot of people stayed on the ship, thought was safer on the "titanic" than in the lifeboat. they made a mistake. thank you howard fineman and john heilman. hell of a comparison, i know. elections '06, '08 and '10. americans are angry at everyone in office. whenever there's a wave, somebody will lose, and something will will. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.

politico's reporting that senate majority leader harry reid has chosen three senate colleagues for the bipartisan super committee tasked with finding additional reductions. patty murray of washington state, and john kerry of massachusetts senate republican leader mitch mcconnell has pretty much promised none of the people he names to that super committee would even consider raising taxes. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." are we looking at another wave election where one party gets kicked in the butt and the other one wins? in 2006 democrats won more than 30 house seats and took over the united states senate. wave number one. in 2008, democrats grabbed another 20-plus house seats, seven more in the senate and took the white house of course with president obama. wave two. then last year the republicans would be back all the house seats and more and took back half of lost senate seats.

wave three. now with americans angry at everyone, we could have wave four. who gets burned this time? washington bureau chief susan page and ron reagan. thank you so much for this. looking at the numbers. let's look at biggest number here's. new numbers from the "usa today" gallup poll. asked if registered voters think most members of congress deserve re-election, only 21% said yes. 70% said get rid of them all. then you asked them, when it's your member of congress, here we go again. more slightly forgiving. more than slightly. 54% said their own congressperson deserved re-election. just 34%, about one-third, said that member of congress shouldn't be remembered or brought back into office. similar to what we've seen before in wave elections. susan, analyze this. the fact that 54% said i'll keep my own person in congress, man or woman, democrat or

republican, is not enough to prevent a wave, right? >> no. about where things were in 1994 when we had a big wave. democrat plus the house and senate. about where we in 2006, things went the other way. seems like an okay number. it is in fact a terrible number when it comes to re-election for congress. for your own member of consequence. >> what does this tell you? to ron in a minute. seems to me there's no such thing as both your houses. you have to put in, two choice which ones does it look like based on your numbers will kick butt? >> this is not something that's now clear. this is an opportunity for both parties. >> did you deliberately rig your pulse so it doesn't say who's

getting kicked out? >> people have not decided. people could blame -- >> really? >> republicans have not -- obama lost ground in our polling. republicans haven't gained ground. people don't like either side. 15 months to the election. one side or the other should be able to make the case it's not our fault, we've got a plan for the future. vote for us. >> ron two ways to look at it. looking to blame exactly, mad at everybody. fingerpointing, fair enough. a big part of politics, the other one is, each party has a chance to prove themselves now. neither one has. neither the president nor his republican opposition have looked like leaders positively to a better country. that's what i think. >> yeah, i think you're absolutely right and the challenge for barack obama is to actually marry some of the soaring rhetoric to actual policy here. what is he going to do? i mean, we all know what the republicans stand for. you can characterize it any way you want. deregulate, privatize, reward the rich, small government, lower taxes, big military. come up with short phrases that describe the republican agenda. what does barack obama stand for? can you do that with him? i don't think so. i can't. but he's got to -- >> that's why i -- >> if he -- >> that's why to be a little bit

of a relentless voice tonight i really think i've figured out what the country wants based upon the polling and shows we've done here. they want jobs. people out of work want to go to work. real jobs, not leaf raking. they'd love to have real physical jobs, guys and women out there. waiting in line every time you have a job opening in a big city. there's thousands of people waiting in line, able-bodied people, who want to work that day. shovel ready? how about work read? >> i don't like your -- >> they just want to see the job. >> i like your plan, chris. not because i think it's going to pass, you don't always win just by getting the bill passed. sometimes you win by laying down a marker for people to see so they know where you stand. >> let's go to the -- when it kim to the president, 47% of registered voters said he deserved re-election. not exactly a healthy number. traditionally below 50 you're vulnerable. >> right. holding a core vote. not a bad thing. could be lower. you don't win in a two-way race

with 47% of vote. he needs to do better than that to win reelection. kind of a magic number on job approval. usually we think it's 50%. george w. bush managed to win a second term with 48% job approval. you need to be a little higher than barack obama has been these last few months, this last year or so if he'll win a second term. >> doesn't seem right to me. the gallup poll shows president obama beats a generic republican. back to what you said, ron a telling critique of the president now. i'm fond of him, i want him to success, but everybody sees they're transparent right now. too much talk, little action. too much academic behavior not enough good, old-fashioned democratic politics here. your dad, president reagan i used to say working on the opposition for tip o'neill, i always said every cab driver in washington, every cab driver,

regular guy or woman knows where that guy stands. he wants to beat the communist, reduce the size of government by cutting taxes. they all got it. they didn't agree with it in a lot of cases but they got it. >> people come up to me now years later say, you know, i didn't agree with your father on much, but you know what? when he said something you knew he meant it. you knew where he stood. people don't vote for the most reasonable guy in the room. they vote for the guy they respect, or woman, they respect. and you earn respect by taking a stand. by making it clear what you're all about. and -- barack obama just needs to do a better job of that. >> yeah. we had a presidential candidate from illinois many years ago when i was growing up who spoke very well. and lost twice. adlai stevenson, a smart guy. well spoken. anyway, the president's own support at a fund-raiser. to read it, it wasn't taped. the good news, there been enough frustration at washington, sort of reached a fevered pitch last week, now looking at 16 months

in which there's going to be a clear contrast and a clear choice. what do you make of that? i found it confounding. he's saying there's a great 16 months ahead of us between now and the election because there's a clear contrast? what is this? a deliberation period coming up for the american voter? >> also, as you and ron were saying, is there such a clear statement of principles and plans? >> from him? >> from him for the next 15 months? there isn't now. a long period of time, political landscape could change. he could make his case, but you know we're going to be in a situation where the economy isn't good. right? even if the economy -- if we don't go into the double dip recession we won't be in a booming recovery. that really increases the need, the imperative for him to say, i have a plan that will help us move forward. here's what it is. >> how does the president

clarify his position on jobs? ron, last thought? >> by marrying his rhetoric to policies. fine to say we have to focus on jobs. it's fine to pivot to jobs, as everybody was saying in the last week, what are you going to do about jobs? clear contrast. clear choice. if he doesn't make the choice in the contrast clear the republicans will do it for him, and they'll do it in a way that muddies the water. so he's got to lay down his principles and marry them to policies. >> i say bring up a jobs program, make the republicans vote against it. i bet you that buckle this time. thank you, susan page. thank you, ron reagan. up next, after all the turmoil on wall street which continued today, is it time for panic? steve colbert is funny if you want comic relief from a difficult week on wall street which we've all had. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. sam higgins? you have frequent heartburn, right?

yeah. well we're the two active ingredients in zegerid otc. i'm omeprazole. and i'm sodium bicarbonate. just one pill a day ... gives you 24-hour relief. & one mission. two ingredients heartburn solved.

back to "hardball" now for the "sideshow." first up, leave it to stephen colbert to put a hilarious spin on the downgrade. watch as he prepare for the consequences. >> folks, there is nothing to worry about. on wall street, cooler heads always prevail. >> you can see the dow jones industrial down almost 300 points. >> we are down more than 400 points. >> the dow is now down 500 points. >> down nearly 600 points. >> it's down 631 points. >> wall street spending in another day what's described as freak-out mode. >> don't panic! everything's fine. i'm just -- i'm just down here looking for my emergency hobo satchel. >> okay. now, remember, folks, just remember, oh -- just remember -- over the long term stocks always increase in value.

okay? this is just a temporary correction. okay? there is no need to lose confidence in the system. okay. and, yes, yes, perhaps -- perhaps we're experiencing a wee bit of a contraction here, but do not pull your money out of the stock market just yet. >> like finding the captain of hiding in a lifeboat. next, here's something that may make chris christie reconsidering. bill crystal has written a poem to entice certain non-candidates into entering the gop presidential race. it's entitled to our non-coy candidates. it reads in part -- forward while you may no longer dither and delay but moneyfully embrace your fate and boldly be a candidate. well, the full title of the pom reads, for paul ryan, marco rubio rubio, jeb bush and

others, attributed to what i believe is how bad the current list of candidates happens to be. up next, democrats in is wisconsin looking to blacken of eye of governor scott walker tonight. six republican state senators face recall challenges tonight. if the democrats can win just three of those six races, they will win control of the state senate and make their case. this election could tell us a lot about which way the wind is blowing for next year. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

welcome back. it's a day for a lot of -- where six republican state senators

faced recall and defeat. they'll be in a position to reverse governor walker's anti-union agenda. everybody's been watching wisconsin, it's really the first fight of the 2012 election cycle. joining us is an expert and advocate. ed shultz, who's been covering this whole scott walker event out there. as he fights the unions. is this going down in history books of the labor union? what's this going to say about history? what's this going to mean, this fight tonight? >> i think it's a battleground zero, chris, for labor unions in this country and the ground game that's been put together here in wisconsin, i mean, if they can't

do it here, where are they going to do it? it's almost as if the unions come in from all over the country if we can't win wisconsin how influential are we going to do be? this is very important to them, for the teachers, the firefighters, the law enforcement official, the librarians, city workers, across the board. this is a statement about the middle class. that's what this election is all about and a referendum on the governor but also a referendum on just how important the issues are to the middle class in this country, and i think it's going have a big effect on other states as well. this is the eye of the storm for the fight of the country when it comes to the middle class of this country. no doubt about it. >> let's look at the six republican state senators trying to hold on out there. hold on to their seats. the six democrats reportedly feel good about theirs chances in two of those six races. two others seem to have a good

chance. two are safe. how do you call it right now, this time of night? early in the evening before we get the returns in? >> well, i'll tell you, chris, the intangible here in the turnout. i mean, there's been no question about it, it's at presidential levels in some of these districts. enthusiasm is high. i just talked to john ush. they got the money. nobody knows how to read the presidential turnout. they're excited but not sure what that means. the crown jewel race to watch is in suburban milwaukee. alberta darling, the close correspondent to governor scott walker is the one that was very instrumental in writing the collective, anti-collective bargaining bill, and sandy pasch has put on a great fight against her. darling knows she's in a fight. that's why $8 million was poured into that district to support alberta darling and she's kind of like sharron angle, if we could go back to those days in nevada.

alberta darling says anything. says, hey, we're not making cuts in education. what? you cut almost $1 billion in education. you know, chris, wisconsin's got everything. they cut corporate taxes. unemployment. in fact, has gone up a little bit under scott walker. cut the personal income taxes at the top levels that governor doyle used to have, brought that back. it hasn't done anything. they've cut the investment and it's hurt a lot of people, and people are riled up here, and i think it's going to be a big night for the democrats. i think they're going to get those three seats, possibly four. >> okay. that's what it's about. you have to win three out of six, they win control of the state senate, make this case. ed schultz, you're a big part of that fight. good luck pep "the ed show" is on tonight. we'll learn a lot more, results in perhaps by then. joining us right now is sandy pasch, who we were just talking about there. she's the wisconsin state assemblywoman and the democratic challenger of that hot shot alberta darling, who is so close to the governor.

you're laughing because you know the whole story out there. are you going to win tonight? >> i'm feeling really, really positive. i just came from the headquarters, and the energy there, the number of volunteers we have is unbelievable. over 1,000 people in the last few days. >> give me your pitch as you go around meeting people in the street. you got 30 seconds. i'm beginning to talk like ed schultz now. 30 seconds on the corner, want to win them over what's your pitch to vote for you not the governor's state senator? >> i'm new in politics. i've only been in office for a little over a term and came from 30 years of health care being a nurse, and i ran for office because i cared about the issues that matter to people and that's why i'm doing this again. >> what's at stake? >> ed -- what's at stake is education. what's at stake is working families, the middle class. the health of our local communities.

safety. it's -- a vision of wisconsin that we have really seen distorted in the last few months that people are eager to reverse and get back on track. >> why is it important for the young voter out in that's 18, man or woman, never been through all of these fights, in all of this stuff, wagner act, they don't know that history. most people are young. what's important to collectively bargain, organize a union and have collective strength? why is that important to a middle class person? >> i've been telling a lot of people, our state is stronger and every organization is stronger when we have many voices at the table. just because you don't agree doesn't me they don't have a right to be there. if they want to have good education, we need to bring in the best and brightest. we need have the best and brightest in education and what we've seen in the last few months is an assault on teachers and an assault on social workers, and so many public workers. people need to understand that that's our middle class. that's -- those are the people who do so much for us, we need to value them.

>> schwarzenegger, i like him at first, and the first thing he did was go after teachers, firefighters. seemed to me, why do they go after you folks right away? why the teachers? firefighters? nurses? why are they the targets of these republican governors? what's that about? why you three? >> you know, yeah. i mean, it just seems that it's pitting worker against worker, saying one worker has taken everything away. we haven't taken it away from them yet. let's go after them. a very mean-spirited way to try to grow jobs and the economy, what they ran on. i don't think that's been their agenda at all. they have been so extreme what they've been doing since january they lost sight of what we need to do in our state. what we need to do across the country. >> well, you look like a nice person to me. hope you do well. it's up to the voters, not to me. thanks for coming on "hardball." up next, is president obama about to run a bush-style swiftboat campaign against his opponent, thinking it's romney? is this getting real personal, real soon. yes.

politico reports they're taking a page from george w. bush's 2004 playbook zeroing in on mitt romney hoping to land a knockout punch before the fight gets going. this is "hardball" and that's hardball, on msnbc. if you've p for medicare or will soon, you're starting a whole new journey. and, like many people, you're probably wondering, where do i go from here? consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. call now for a free information kit and guide to medicare to get started. basically, medicare only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. a medicare supplement insurance plan helps cover some of those expenses. and that can save you up to thousands of dollars a year in out-of-pocket costs. plus, you can keep any doctor who accepts medicare patients. together with medicare, an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan

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wow. the obama re-election team sees mitt romney as the likely republican candidate. we're told right now, and plans to strongly attack him personally as a phony. the key word, as weird. that's the word according to a report in politico. try to get the word out that the guy's weird and shouldn't be president. they also say he's a gordon gekko-type character from the movie "wall street." out to screw you out of your job. made lots of money buying up companies and eliminating jobs. romney's camp fired back saying it is disgraceful president obama launched his campaign with a stated goal to kill hi opponent with an onslaught. of negative and personal attacks. president obama will say and do

desperate things to hold on to power because he knows he has failed. for a closer look, we're joined by steve mcmahon and david brody, chief political correspondent for the christian broadcasting network. david, thank you for joining us, and steve, always. this is pretty good reporting by politico. talked to a dozen people in the obama inner circle, who say mitt romney is weird. why that word, weird? >> well, it's suedo to the whole mormonism issue. that's clear. i'm surprised they're bringing it in early, but creating a narrative early enough for romney to get pegged this way. we knew it would happen if romney was the nominee. surprising it happened so quickly. >> this idea of targeting early. it's an old california thing, run the negatives in the summer, but this is the summer before. >> actuali it's not that unusual for an incumbent who's looking at challenging numbers, to try to define their opponent or likely opponent before the opponent gets to define themselves.

something governors do, senators do. something bill clinton did -- >> what's the vulnerability? mitt romney looks like a president, the chin, family name, six kids that all look the same and look great. not knocking him, but what's the clever knock against him now? >> the clev knock. >> he's not comfortable in his own skin. >> he's a mormon. >> what's weird mean? >> it probably means different things to different people. >> what do you think they want it to mean? >> not to necessarily mean anything other than what they say. a christian conservative it means mormon. and to a working person, it means somebody who jokes about being unemployed when they're a multi-millionaire running for the president of the united states. top somebody else, a different thing. mitt romney's been a lot of different thing to a lot of people but he's hollowed out his core. i don't think running against more more ummism is -- >> come july, september,

whatever it happens to be in campaign come july, september, whatever it happens to be in 2012 if romney's the nominee. we're going to see leaked on background, deep background, memos or whatever, we're going to see something along the lines of more specific examples of this weirdness that they are talking about. >> let's get to the word, i think it's a fascinating thing, with the caucus, they made him into a form eigner, they made him left wing, unpatriotic. john kerry they turned him into a some kind of traitor, horrible things against a guy that served his country and faced bullets, but weird is interesting because weird plays on some of his vulnerabilities. he's incredibly formal in his behavior in public, he does seem artificial in the way he presents himself. you're laughing.

>> that's in his genes. >> it's not that, here's the tangible issue. the tangible issue is that there was a real concern in 2008 he has a hard time connecting personally to voters. >> and he does. >> how do you turn it into a negative, a lot of guys can't connect but it's not frightening. how do you turn it into scary? >> i don't think this weird card is going to be advantageous to the obama campaign. >> a weird card is different than a mormon card. >> when you play a weird card, you know what you're playing. >> the obama campaign isn't going to engage on mormonism but that engagement will probably occur in south carolina, people like rick perry, people like michele bachmann, the fundamentalist christian community who think mormonism is more than weird, thing it's sacrilegious. >> i think you might say that. i think he might say that --

we'll let him answer that question. >> we will, but i'm talking about the faith generally, not mitt romney specifically. >> 2012 is different than 2008. in 2008 he went through all this with abortion and marriage and how he explained his faith. 2012, been there, done that, now evangelical christians are looking at the debt, debt ceiling, all of this as a moral issue, something that jim wallace and the progressives have been talking about it for years, it's a tier-a issue and there's a tendency for this -- >> let's look at the weird, not awkward moments that can be construed as weird. let's look at a few examples of what people might consider awkward behavior by candidate romney. >> see if i can get my arms around everybody. much closer, much closer. oh, my goodness. >> come on, who's got your

camera though? who let the dogs out, who, who? thanks, guys. >> where are you on global warming? >> well, it's not too hot in here this evening, so this is encouraging. >> i did write a book, you're saying it's good, i appreciate that. >> it was great. >> it was great, thank you, dad. no, i'm kidding, kidding. i'm your age so i can't get away with that. >> yeah, i guess weird's not the right word for me. what would you say? very formal, almost old school. >> awkward, almost like someone said mitt, you have to be a regular guy, he doesn't know how to be a regular guy, he tries these jokes, they fall flat. >> i think we're playing with fire. >> so he's not jon stewart, but if he can make the case and create jobs, real quick, the obama campaign could back fire big time. >> we'll see.

thank you, they want to run against rick perry -- not barbara bachmann, she was the movie star, michele bachmann. thank you steve mcmahon, thank you david brody. you were hiding on me, you know what weird means. let's finish with big questions in the war of afghanistan and why we are fighting there. thank you for calling esurance. man, we give out so many car insurance discounts. safe driver discount, homeowner's discount... multi-car discount. i wish we could get discounts everywhere. body like a greek god discount at the gym. best moves discount at the disco. you guys are so funny. really? best actress discount. uncalled for discount. whatever discount. [ female announcer ] tons of discounts. see for yourself at esurance. technology when you want it. people when you don't.

let me finish tonight with this war in afghanistan, the president went to dover air force base today to pay his

respects to the 30 american service members killed when their helicopter was shot down this weekend in afghanistan. i think we need to ask a basic question about our mission over there, what is it? if it's to fight the taliban, that leads to two other questions, first, why are we fighting them? why are we in their country fighting people who want to run their country? do we have more right to say who gets to run the country than the people who lives there? who says it's our country to call the shots in? second question, how do we defeat the taliban? presumably the day will come when we leave and they stay. if we are going and they are still there, won't they be able to take over? won't they still be there, won't they still be fighting? those two questions are really important to answer. we just lost all those good, brave, and patriotic men on the front line doing the tough fighting, fighting the

insurgents on one side of an afghan war that began long before we went there. if the goal is to fight terrorists, why don't we do that? why are we fighting in their civil war? i know it's hard for any president, especially a democrat to pull out of a war zone, but if the chief reason we are staying to avoid us leaving, it's time to leave. the reason this war has gone on is that we have first-rate, highly-disciplined troops, the american military, they do what they are told. that's all the more reason to have a mission that makes sense and justifies the total sacrifice these americans stand ready to make. i have to believe if we had a draft, which made every young person vulnerable to being sent over to afghanistan and thrown into this fight we would have been out of there a long time ago. there's something wrong with a country fighting a war that most of the country has come to pay