equivalequalifequivalence aren' enough at what the gop is doing to block progress in a number of these areas. we'll have to pick that conversation up another time. terrific rant. that does it for us today. . "hardball" starts right now. show us the way. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. leading off tonight, leadership moment. what's happening with barack obama? what's happening with the man who stood biff millions on inauguration day and offered to lead us and heal us? part of the answer is a republican party whose main goal, whose only goal, is to bring him down at all costs. what about the president? his pattern is to wait for others to bring him solutions. another year of this and then what? could this be it?

now is the time for president obama to announce a jobs program, i think. a lot of people do. take control, show the world what needs to be done and call on congress to get to it. the dangerous bridge, bad roads, the whole shebang. it's time to lead. meanwhile, democratic defeat in wisconsin. the democrats managed to take back two seats, but they needed to take back three in order to win a majority. what does the wisconsin vote tell us about next year's vote in 2012? plus, rick perry is the talk of the republican presidential field. by the way, we now now know of a sect instant when perry talked about texas seceding from the union. will republicans really want to nominate a man for president who is not sure he likes being part of the republic? and when did it become okay to talk about impeaching a president just because you don't agree with his agenda? one texas republican congressman is talking about, impeaching him

because they don't like him. let me finish with the reason the presidential field is so, let's agree on this, paltry. robert reich is the former labor secretary, currently professior at university of california at berkeley, and bill richard, the former governor of new mexico. robert reich, i want to ask you about the democratic party. i'm not talking about roots people, but regular people who vote for democrats. where do they feel in terms of their emotion about the president right now? >> chris, my work is average working-class democrats, middle class democrats, the lunch bucket democrats, the democrat party used to worry about and used to represent, those people feel like they've been abandoned. they do not hear the president talking about jobs, about wages, coming up with a jobs plan to get them back to work. they hear about all of this debt stuff, which may by important

certainly, but the crisis is not a debt crisis right now. it's a jobs and wages and growth crisis. i think the president has got to speak to they people and come up with a real jobs plan. >> when they're sitting around talking a breakfast, perhaps at the local dinee, or late at night when they get together with the guys, what do they want to hear this president do to regain the stature he had coming into the offices? >> to do, not talk about. >> i think they want him number one to do things like exempting the first $20,000 of income from payroll taxes for at least two years. that would put money in people's pockets, give them enough to start spending. number two, amend the bankruptcy laws, so people who are troubled homeowners, distressed homeowners, can declare bankruptcy on their primary residence. that would give them more bargaining leverage with their banks and service lenders, that would enable them to reorganize

their mortgages, as housing prices continue to tumble, as more and more people find themselves under water. number three, there ought to be a substantial tax benefit for employers who hire new employees, net new employees. not robbing people peter to pay paul. the point is i could go down a long list. there's many things the president can do, at least appropriate doing, and he could say i'm going to fight for these. if the republicans won't join me, i'm going to fight through the election and beyond. >> let's talk about other numbers. the dow dropped 520 points, which means it's fallen more than 2,000 points in the last 14 days. governor richardson, the same question, what's the average working stiff, to use an old phrase, kneeling? and what does he have to start talking -- doing, not talking, to get them back? >> we're going to get through this, but i think the president has to shift the discussion away

from debt. we've had a ten-year debt program that he and the republicans have come forth with. we need a jobs program. jobs, jobs, jobs, create jobs through the private sector, give incentives to companies who hire new workers, find ways to per suede, maybe even force some of these companies who are taking these jobs overseas. find issues that create county to county, you have to go to the great roots. you know when the president talks about let's have more infrastructure, mo are green jobs, i think what needs to happen, he's got plenty of people working for them. they'll be in counties of new mexico or where professor reich lives. go to the midwest. listen to factory workers, union leaders, what's it going to take to create new jobs? give me some new ideas. have a jobs summit of ordinary

people and the private sector. what is it that they need to create jobs. challenge that private sector. don't call the congress back. don't abolish your vacation. come up with a plan, listen to the american people, and then in september when the congress is back, challenge the congress, go over their heads, because just generally on a lot of these issues, they're not going to listen. but he can do a lot by executive order, by persuasion. he is a very persuasive guy. those that say he's detached and cool, i don't see that. i've seen him on the campaign trail. he trounced all of us running for president by inspiring people, and i think he can do that again. >> i would go further. i would go where this needs to be work done, not make work, but work that needs to be done. i wouldn't call it that. i would point to bridges and say that bridge is falling down, let's bring it up to safety code. that road needs work, let's fix that road. i would say the sewer system is

100 years old, robert reich. here is maureen dowd questions the president in her comment. she noted he waited until the weekend was over to speak about the navy s.e.a.l. deaths in afghanistan. his inable to spontaneously assuage americans' fears is strange. if they had died on a monday, he wouldn't have waited until wednesday to talk about it. he doesn't like the bully pulpit, but like the professor's lectern, it's made him seem strangely irrelevant in washington, trapped by his own temperame temperament. he doesn't lead, and he doesn't understand why we don't feel led. robert reich, do you agree with her? >> chris, let me just say, and i agree with a lot of what bill richardson just said, but i think the president not only has to look as if he's fighting and leading and right there for american workers, but he's got to do it. i would add to my list

infrastructu infrastructure, ball right now you can do so much repairing of bridges and highways and everything else, because the treasury bill, notwithstanding what standard & poor's said, down to a low interest rates. you can borrow very easily. >> what is stopping this president from putting a bill forth that will put a million people back to work doing jobs we all can see, politically need doing, with a local republican congressman would have to defend 23409 doing? why doesn't he do it? >> chris, there's a lot of theories circulating around. one may have to do with temperame temperament. the other is a lot of advisers around him are saying don't bother, you'll never get anything through the republican house -- >> what kind of thinking is that? >> and they will accuse you of spending more and being another big government. i think what the president has got to do is say to those nay sayers, i don't care, america is hurting right now.

we have the worst economic insecurity and job situation since the great depression, and i, as president, i've got to be out there. bill richardson, the one thing i disagree with, i think the president does have to summon congress back. we can't say five weeks, six weeks doesn't matter, no, this is a crisis, and it's a crisis right now. >> well, my point is that the president needs a plan. you can't rush it. get everybody together, in some new people out there in the skin, listen to them. i'm saying have one ready soon, but those that say call them back without a plan, i don't think that makes sense. >> of course you have to have a plan. >> but governor, the president was joking a few months ago. generally i support everything the guy does. i like hi temperament, except this thing of jobs, this thing of doing what needs to be done. he was laughing at some event

recently or a while back about how many there weren't as many shovel-ready jobs available. that reminded me to w., who was out to lurch on the wmd and thinking that was funny. what's he talking xw? you're governor, aren't there shovel-ready jobs out there? >> absolutely. >> what's not ready? >> what we need are new ideas? >> what's wrong with the old ideas? >> that's a good idea, but create a fund, create a fund -- >> you've got the old roads, why do you need a new idea for the old roads? >> to create new jobs. the stimulus -- i'm an ex-governor. that stimulus created jobs in my state, and bob reich was for them. i think we need some kind of a stimulus, but at the same time there's some ways to get the private sector, those big companies that are putting their jobs overseas, match them and say keep the jobs?

america. find ways that an infrastructure fund keg created, to create new jobs. >> but that -- >> i've got to tell you guys, i disagree with you, bill. i was just talking to rachel maddow, she showed me a column a few moments ago that shows these republican so-called right wingers, the minute you pass a stimulus bill, they have their hands out there like everybody else asking for jobs. >> of course they are. >> mish bachmann, the chair of the tea party people, saying she doesn't believe in a stimulus, the minute the bill got passed, she was saying build this bridge in mice district it will create 3,000 jobs. they know the government can create jobs. just don't it. >> not only do they know it, but there are some things we tried bev that worked, the wpa, and the civilian conservation corps, we have so many long-term unemployed people sitting on their hands. wouldn't it be better if they were working for the public working on things we all need.

we don't need a complicated public/private partnership. >> he may not be watching the show. i don't know what he watches or listens to, but bill richardson, does he listen to guys like you? does he listen to bill clinton? they're saying this, i assume. >> i was at his births day party, and we talked briefly. he knows the severity of the situation. all i'm saying, chris, is let's not panic. let's do it right. let's have a jobs plan that makes sense, that involves a private sector, infrastructure. i'm with what everyone is saying. all i'm saying is let's do it right. he needs new creative ideas and listen to ordinary people out in the midwest about how to do this. >> all i'm saying is every time a job opens in a big city, the line goes around the block of able -- another old phrase-able-bodied men and women who want to work. they may not have enough money for a cup of dove, but they wait

in line for hours to put their name on the list. you go through a big city people are up at 6:30 catching a bus if they're lucky to have a job. this country likes to work. and this president has to do the thing. i agree with bloth you guys, but we've got to move. thank you robert reich and bill richardson. coming up, another sultry day for the labor movement. the wisconsin recall fight, they lost it, democrats fall a seat short, what else is new, in that state senate fight they hope to win. labor, where are you? where's the big rally in washington? i haven't seen one lately. i see it against abortion rights, see it for steve colbert, for demonstrations for everything except jobs. where is labor? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. is a "what if." what if we designed an electric motorcycle? what if we turned trash into surfboards? whatever your what if is, the new sprint biz 360

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committee, such as that list is. what a bad list. senate republican leader mitch mcconnell has named jon kyl, he won't cut a nickel on defense. pat toomey won't raise a nickel in taxes on the rich. you watch. so two guys that won't raise taxes, and one guys that won't cut defense. that's 1 for 3 for mitch mcconnell. judge boehner named jeb hensarlinger, they're probably all hope his nancy pelosi has yet to name her three picks. we'll be right back. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business... protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

well come back to "hardball." democrats came out bruised and beaten. they needed to win three to take control of the wisconsin state senate. a big defeat to big labor. i mentioned that before. also a reminder of just show reply wisconsin is. joining me are two experts, john

nichols, and jonathan from talking point memo. you're reading -- john, first. >> sure. it was a tough night, because people had raised expectations so high. if you were realistic about politics, you have to understand they were going into six republican districts and some of the least unionized areas in the state. so it was a tough fight they took on. still, there was such a sense of optimist, hope, and frankly this was a case where labor put a lot of money in, and they did fall one seat short. >> josh, aren't these districts, just to put them in presidential perspective, weren't they obama districts? >> you know, they were, but they were also districts where these republicans, who were up last night all won in 2008. so a very strong democratic year.

so i think john is right, but to pit it some military terms, they were making a move on republican territory. it's disappointing, but they took 2 out of these 6 seats. so i think people went in with some off expectations and off assumptions. i think what happened is they unseated two incumbent senators, and, again, the important thing is here, this almost never happens in american politics. legislative recalls never happen. i remember hearing something like a dozen times in the last century, so i think that has to be put in perspective, though, yes, the democrats in wisconsin would be -- have a lot more spring in their step if they had gotten that third seat. >> winston churchill said never promise victory and don't

delivery. i should say that he's giddy with the results in wisconsin, and he has so overstated it, it's time to have fun, because the walrus under water, which is what it sounds like when he broadcasts, that guy is so over the top, that it gives us a teaching moment. let's listen to rush-bo today. >> the people of wisconsin have fended off what amounted to a government union takeover. if the taxpayers of wisconsin can win against those odds, we should be able to do the same thing in every state, and in washington, d.c. we ought to be able to roll back in obama care. we ought to be able to roll back everybody obama has given us. we should be able to roll back the whole democrat agenda for the last 65 years, yes, we can. >> gentlemen, i want john to tick these off on where you agree with rush-bo. he wants to get rid of the be grace with harry trouping in the

united states forces. he wants to get rid of the brown case integrating our schools. he wants to get rid of medicare, medica medicate, the ability to vote at the age of 18. what else is on this guy's freaking list? is that the right-wing agenda? this is bigger than wisconsin. is this what the crowd would like to do if they could win elections? back to world war ii that was done for progressively for race, youth, sex or whatever. >> well, you know they always -- >> honestly i want an answer. do they want it back? >> yes, absolutely, but they always fall into this trap, chris. newt gingrich has said the same thing again and again republican and conservatee leaders show their hands the interesting thing about rush limbaugh is his absolute lack of knowledge of the battlefield where things

were playing out. because in wisconsin, some of these districts have not elected a democrat since grover cleveland was president. it wasn't the whole people of wisconsin rejecting, you know, a progressive agenda or rejecting the last 50 years of advancement. it was very republican districts doing what they do by pattern. and for rush limbaugh to try to extrapolate from that, to an argument that the entire last 50 years should be rolled back, is to my mind, it's actually lying to his own listeners, which is for even rush a bit extreme. >> josh? it's not just labor rights, is there a real ideological rollback at work here if they could beat obama on a roll to go back to world war ii, where things were totally different for race, ethnicity, gender and everything? >> you know, i'm not -- i think

where they're focused is on the economic front. i think there's a decent amount -- you see the voting, which is largely aimed at minority and youth voters. the big thing is on the economic front. you can see they want to privatize or abolish social security, medicare, medicate. one thing i don't think has gotten talked about a lot is everything is framed around the 2012 election being a double down on each side, that everything is on the table. so in a way both sides have joined to putting these issues on the ballot. >> i raised this issue about labor. i like labor. i think generally they're a fabulous force for american life in the last 100 years. if we didn't have them, we

wouldn't be anywhere good. my question is, why don't they take up some of this animus, some of the this excitement that the tea party has? why aren't they holding big rallies. it's such a winner. people in t-shirts that come, they speak, they have a tremendous sense of community and excitement, and then the president gets the message and he can react to that. it gives him a foundation, you know, to bounce off and say the people want jobs, i'm risking it. why don't they do that? why don't they come out in the streets? >> chris, they did in january and february in wisconsin. there were lives changed by joining the maas demonstrations. my frustration is the fact that during they recall races, the democrats, the democratic strategists said, don't talk so much about labor rights. soften the message, dumb it down. >> oh, really? >> i think there's a problem not

only with labor, but with the democratic party not wanting to defend working people and labor issues. >> even on employment? >> they're lousy on it the president can't get excited about it. >> that's trouble. we'll let that reverberate for a bit. michele bachmann is making a big campaign promise. the one thing she says that she won't be elected president. next on "the sideshow." [ male announcer ] want a better way to track what you spend?

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campaign promise. this originally began as a defense against her gaffe back in march when she told a crowd that the revolution began in -- let's listen. >> i made a mistake, and i promised i would never again use president obama's teleprompter. >> after that i promised i would never use against president obama tell prompter. >> by the way, i do have to apologize to you this evening. i did not bring my tell prompters with me tonight. >>ite to confess, i did not bring my tell prompters with me today. >> there will be no tell prompters in the bachmann white house. >> well, her problem, of course, is everybody watching those is what was wring or not. it was in her head or not in her head about american history. next up, we've heard spec tlags that alec baldwin wants to enter politics, but he tells "new york times" today he's looking into getting his master's in politics and seem to

have sights set on becoming mayor of new york city. he plans to become knowledgeable, he says on the i.n.s. and ins and outs of new york and what's the reality of the city unions, agreements, teachers, decentralization, things like that, utilities of coned and mta, how does it all work? imagine that, someone wanting to learn the business of politics before entering it. promising though a run may be for him as baldwin continues hi acting career on "30 rock" and plans to start chipping away in the fall of 2012. long-term plan. up next, triple booked. that sums up the iowa straw poll weekend for mike huckabee. it's nothing political. three of the 20 candidates have tapped him to jam on his bass guitar at the campaign tents this weekend. he said yes to all the offers he

received. so far huckabee has selected some buddy holly classics. when it comes to the straw poll, they want to host the best barbecue, the best entertainment and of course the most prime location to set up their tent. it looks like ron paul beat out the others on the location front, but he's also paying for it. how much did he spend to set up hi campaign tent for the iowa straw poll? $31,000 is what you pay these days for a one-day tent setup. that's tonight's big number. up next, caught on tape. we know of another instance of rick perry threatening texas to secede from the union. a nominee for president wants to get out of the union? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. a lot of times, things are right underneath our feet,

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better than expected earns. that is it from c thbs, we are first in business worldwide. now back over to "hardball." well, welcome back to "hardball." texas governor rick perry has big weekend plans. he'll travel from south carolina to new hampshire to iowa. no big secret there, but will he steal the thunder from what's supposed to be the big event the ames straw poll in iowa? here to discuss more is michael steele, and democratic strategist eric burns. i want an assessment about who will lose. perry looks like he's coming in. first, michael, is he coming in saturday? >> i think this is the announcement before the announcement. i think he's laid a lot of

groundwork with donors. he's going to now touch on starting this past weekend with the base. the conservative base will go broad net this weekend, and i think he's in it, but i don't know exactly what his impact will be in the first instance. i think it's going to take time to flesh out. >> first, who is least happy in their perceptions that he's coming in. is it michele bachmann? or is it mitt romney? who of those two is least happy this guy is running now? >> i'm not convinced either one are least happy. i think as we've seen with other candidates, you've got to prove you have the salt to do this thing to run is very different. i think this is something that the perry campaign will see. if i'm michele bachmann and perry and -- not perry -- pawlenty and others, i'm sitting there, come on in, the water is

nice, let's have some fun, let's see what you can do. >> who gets hit firth? who gets hurt? >> i think no question that michele bachmann gets hurt, because perry could steal a lot of her thunder with the tea party crowd, and mitt romney gets hurt. if rick perry is able to gain that momentum, which i think he probably is set up to do, it's going to take away that northwestibility factor that romney is depending on, and really propel him into a competitive position. >> there's two things to look at, you look at the profile, governor of texas, then you look at then personally, how they fill out that profile. this guy as got a great profile, all the texas strut. you get to the person. is he strong there? as a person, is he a strong candidate? what's your gut? >> i think so.

i've been in the room with him, i think he brings a lot to that table. let's so what he does. i'm not going to assume he's going to grab all this fire. remember, fred thompson was supposed to do the same thing. >> yeah, i think it looked like he wanted to get into a bark olounger. but eric, here's the question. this guy has made controversial statements in the past. there was a new statement of perry winking as texas seceding from the union, which is historic nonsense. we proved that in '61 -- 1861, but let's watch perry in this infamous video from april of 2009. >> texas is a unique place. when we came in the union in 1845, one of the issues was we would be able to leave if we decided to do that. you know, my hope is that america and what washington in

particular pays attention. there's no reason to dissolve it, but if washington continues to thumb their snows at the american people, who knows what might come out of that. >> how can a politics from texas be so profoundly ignorant about texas history. this is profound ignorance, to think they had a special okay to quit the union when they came in. >> i'm laughing, because i'm from texas. that's kind of like an urban legend in texas, but it's absolutely not true. >> who thinks this besides him? where did he get this fans sill from? we all knee that texas came in under a provision it could break itself into six states, but i knew that from the time i read about the monitor and the merrimack. this guy is a politician and he doesn't know this. >> he's the governor. i mean, a republican who thinks

lincoln was wrong? i just can't even fathom that. >> the new slogan of the republican party, ignorance is bliss? really? is it now cute? is this a way of proving you're not part of washington, you don't know anything? >> come on, you've got -- i don't mean to laugh, but i do have to laugh when i hear the ridiculous. >> okay. what's ridiculous, what i said or what he said? >> you're assuming so much here, chris, you're assuming that the governor is dead serious -- >> he stated a fact. >> i think the reality of it is, like a lot of things that come out of texas, they're big, the statements are big, the hyperbole is big, and the bottom-line point was the governor was saying, listen to us, listen to the states, listen to those of us out here, as we want in 2009 and 2010. i don't take this conversation

as serious. >> you mean as texas a & m -- part of the aggie education program is to tell you that texas is allowed to secede from the union? >> it's hyperbole, political talk. >> republican candidates for the most part have kept quiet about perry, but here's mitt romney seeming to make a veiled statement about the governor. >> you know, there was a poll about a month ago that was surprised. it had me as the only republican candidate who in texas could beat president obama. i think i was ahead by eight points. no one else was ahead of him. >> hint hint, and here atim pawlenty this week -- everyone brings certain strengths and weaknesses, and there's an early face with people getting an initial buzz, and then things settle in. so, eric, is this a little jab, threat to perry that he's in for

tougher business? >> of course it is. i think romney is worried and he should be. you know, frankly they'll lose, but being a texan, texans do say big things, but they don't talk about secession and it's not a joke. he was serious, because he's pandering to this near military right wing of the tea party that we have seen for the last two years. and i think that's the problem with rick perry. >> but that's the politics of it, eric. you know it. you've advised candidates and hear them get out there and say things that go to the core of their constituency. i think the broader issue about whether or not -- >> those texans that want to

secede. >> look, the secession conversation is a red herring. it doesn't mean anything. let's put it aside. >> and so they put "red herring" over the screen so we know what it is. >> you're an intelligent man. you can ask him the question directly, but until then let's see with the point on the table, which is what happens to this field once he gets in. >> michael steele doesn't want to defend rick perry's comments about secession. >> i'm not going to defend it. that's silly. thank you, michael steele. the civil war cost 600,000 lives. let's make a hoot out of it. >> c'mon, chris, get real. >> i'm the one that is real. the one that says president obama is impeached. i guess this is part of the red herring stuff. let's just ignore these guys when they talk about secession, impeachment. why don't they put that sign up

there. that will be helpful. now we impeach presidents whose policies we might disagree with. this is "hardball." we have to know how to read the translations here, only on msnbc. twork. a network of possibilities. excuse me? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. we share. shop from anywhere. and are always connected. we live in a social world. isn't it time we had a social currency to match? membership rewards points from american express. use them to get the things you love from amazon.com,

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we're back. first republicans refused to compromise on revenues when it came to an historic debt deal. now they're opening to actually impeaching president obama. michael burgess says yes. len to what the ft. worth tell graph says last night, quote, when one attendancy suggested that the house push for impeachment proceedings against president obama to obstruct -- it needs to happen. burgiss said, no question about that when asked about the comment later. he said he wasn't sure whether the proper charge is to bring up articles of impeachment were ou pursuing such a course. quote, we need to tie things up. so here we have steve joining us

from salon.com and michelle goldberg, thank you both for joining us. this is a new flippancy where we throw out, not even to impeach, but as a way to tie of misdemea way it tie things up. a filibuster technique. >> i remember, it must have been the spring of 1939 when bill clinton first came to office and my parents were driving us around and a car in front of us said impeach clinton. that was before anything happened. i look at the clinton administration and i look at the obama administration and i see the whole thing. >> are they mad? >> they consider him illegitimate and any tool at your disposal, to get him out of office, stall his agenda, you use. it intimidates main stream republican leaders who say, no, that's not legitimate. i remember -- >> when did they start? michelle, why don't you jump in on this. what about the sense on the right? not the republicans, not the

ones i grew up with, but right-wing crazies, money guys, that democrats shouldn't be president. you can have congress once in a while but we own the white house. when did that start? >> i think when the republicans became a fund manically conservative party, party based 07b itself. >> they own the wloown the whit house, why? >> because the democratic party wants it take their money, takes their party, that is illegitimate. >> congressman from newton, mass, they expect big sit tees have democratic majority but they don't expect the white house to be democrats. >> bill clinton was the first democratic president from the religious right in the reagan administration. as we have seen, the religious right has, not just a theology but a whole kind of theology from american history in which only true christians and true believe verts right it rule. >> and the founding fathers didn't have slaves.

>> they were evangelical christianes who did not have slaves, exactly. out of this theology was the godless secular democrats had that was some -- >> secular humanists pz and that tendency in the republican party has gotten exponentially larger. >> i want to look at something when huntsman, came up with him. huntsman was asked about libya. this is one of the things we can argue about lib why. but about impeaching the president at an event with new hampshire voters last week, here is what he said to that discussion. he is afraid of these people. [ inaudible ] >> i think congress is in a mild uproar about it. >> i have a fundamental problem generally. beyond this decision. just with the decision that has been made to get involved in

libya, in a tribal country, where we have no definable state, where we have no exit strategy. in afghanistan, with you want to get involved with tribal government. how hard is it to extracate yourself and get involved with history. [ inaudible ] >> we will let congress take care of that. >> here is a person -- >> that's what i'm talking about. how the mentality that you would think of with someone who is respectable -- >> why is he being crazy. >> because he represents a party that represents impeachment. >> when do they clean up their act for the general election? they can't run like this. >> remember bill clinton was re-elected, even dick luger wanted to convict him in the impeachment trial. it never stops. as long as there is a democrat in the white house, respectable republicans are going to feel pressure it cater this. >> democrats need not apply. is that the new rule?

>> yes. basically. >> i that i is going down in history, watching huntsman, a man of his sophistication, put up with that malarkey. i use that nice word, malarkey. short but brilliant. michelle, same thing. republican running for president, tle don't like government, they don't like politics. who's going to run? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.

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let me finish tonight with a small list of republican

presidential candidates. can anyone of either party remember smaller, shorlter, less dramatic pack of people? several of names are a set of politicianes who held lower office and have the presidency on their to-do less. that includes pawlenty and huntsman. these people have ambition that want it run from governorship. unexciting be unexceptional. then the other candidates that run by call, religious in nature. including rick santorum, that i respect. and newt gingrich is not a candidate but but trouble shooti shooting, sometimes of his own trouble making. not much after list. not much showing when you think of the opportunity in very tough times for a republican candidate. here is why. i think republicans don't like government. i think they don't like people that go into it. and they don't really like politics, of the kind that says,

here is meningococcal we can do that's positive, something we can do to build it up. help people, help build faith in our democratic faith of, and here is that word they don't like, government. there it is. they don't like government. they don't like career politicians. and guess what? if you don't like something, why would you want to be it? why would you want your kid do go into it or your brother or sister or cousin? this is the problem for republicans. they have this big fat opportunity to win the big job and they don't have anybody ready, willing or gunning hoe to win it. the only one with the job of being president or the honor of being president is mitt romney. he put himself on that course in 1968 when his dad went for it and missed the grade. that is back in the 60s when republicans still had people around. people like george romney and nelson rockefeller and jack javits who thought government worthwhile. that was a half century