weights and measures of a government spying on its own citizens. then we can laugh some more, because look at these guys -- the best new thing in the world today. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow night. >> good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" tonight in new york. president obama is pushing the jobs plan in michigan. i'll help him out. a presidential candidate is using my name to prop up his failing campaign? i'll have to set him straight. and republicans are waging a war on the postal service like on the postal service like nothing you've ever seen before. this is "the ed show" let's get to work. >> we have to not be ashamed. i'm not ashamed. >> rick santorum needs a refresher course on what makes this country great. i went out and spoke to hardworking americans today,

they're going to set them straight. >> the right to bargain to the american right, no one should lose. >> bernie sanders is here with reaction. the pink slip rick scott movement report says that the governor is basically robbing the state for its health care insurance. and rick per i have jumping in to the republican national race. tonight we're jumping on rick perry. >> this is what i'm supposed to be doing. >> good evening, thanks for joining us tonight. the number one issue uh on the minds of americans jobs. president obama hit the road and went to michigan today to talk about just that. the president went on the offense against the obstructionists who are trying to sink our economy and make him a one-president. >> there are things we can do right now that can put more money in your pockets, help people sell more products around the world, put people to work around the country.

to get these things done, we do need congress. common sense ideas support in the past by democrats and the republicans. things that are supported by carl levin. the only thing keeping us back is our politics. the only thing preventing the bills from being passed is the refusal of some folks in congress to put country ahead of party. there there's some in congress that would rather see americans lose than america win. that has to stop. it has to stop. we're all supposed to be on the same team, especially when we're going through tough times. >> so the president says there are things we can do now.

and we need congress fchl you're a fair-minded american tonight, what has this congress done to help the president move the jobs economy forward. republicans have never wanted to be on the same team with president obama. senator jim demint openly admitted that he wanted to break the president and make health care reform his waterloo. that was july 9, care reform his waterloo. that was july 9th, 2009. he had the same thing today. >> we saw within a few days that the president was going to be heavy-handed. he was going to implement his agenda and pay back his political allies. and it went on from there, from obamacare. and then, to dodd-frank. it has been the most anti-business, and i consider anti-american administration, of my lifetime of things that are just so anathema to the principles of freedom.

and everything he has come up with has centralized more power in washington. creates more socialist style policy policies. >> we should point out that that was on a christian radio center. a senator just called the president of the united states anti-american. he called the president heavy-handed. demint is in lockstep with every other right wing candidate today. look at what rick santorum said today. >> i'm not ashamed. if you can say it in front of nbc every day. and rachel maddow and to ed schultz and all these folks up there saying this guy's nuts. you know? this guy understands what made

this country great. >> what made this country great. you know what, former senator santorum. i try to do my part. i make payroll. we haven't fired anybody. we haven't reduced anybody's wages. okay. pat myself on the back. it can be done. even in the arena of negativity that you throw out there, senator santorum. we should be ashamed. we don't know what this economy is really about. what i know about, is this president has put so much opportunity on the table for small business. and you have stood on the sideline. and you've heckled from the crowd. and now, you're saying you're not ashamed? senator santorum. i'll give you the respect of calling you senator, even though you got booted out of pennsylvania. show you'd be ashamed. he stands, by friends, with the bankers in wall street. i'm not ashamed to stand with the people who are under attack

by the conservatives in this country, like santorum, and his policies. when i saw that piece of tape come into the shop today, i thought, well. maybe i should go down the street. i saw these folks on the street this morning, when i got back from orlando, after talking to union workers. i said i think i will walk down the street and stand with these great americans and ask them, if they deserve to have their voice heard and if they know what makes america great. so, rick santorum says that he's not ashamed to say what he's for in america. that he's not ashamed to talk about what he thinks makes america great. although, he aligns himself with a political party who think it's great to be go after workers and the middle class. to take away health care and pensions and fixed incomes.

rick santorum is part of a party who thinks it's good to go after people who want a voice in the workplace, to collectively bargain. he's not ashamed of that. i'm not ashamed to stand with the workers and ask them today here on the streets of new york and across america, if they're ashamed to ask for fair wage in the workplace. let's ask them. brothers and sisters, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> are you ashamed to be here and ask for a living wage aerohealth health care. >> i feel it is necessary that i stand here. they are at the top. if you look at the salary they are making, that's the shame. i am here with pride, to be able to maintain what we had. not only to maintain, but to add to what we have. when you look at the rate that they've -- that these are escalated around, we are not making enough to live on today.

i can tell you that for sure. when we get through paying for rent, mortgage, subway tokens and all that stuff, we have nothing left. >> rick santorum, you know what's great about america? this is what's great about america, rick santorum, is people speaking up. this is what's great about america. people who have the courage to stand up and say, value my career. value my family. how important is it to be here? how important is it? are you ashamed to stand up and talk for american workers? >> not at all. not at all. we have to take a stand. now is the time to take a stand for everybody. hardworking people. not just here. but all working people. right now, we can't back down. it's a fair wage. fair benefits. fair health packages. we want to add to what we have. >> is it important to be able to

speak your peace in america? is that what makes america great? >> that's what makes america great? >> what are you not ashamed of? >> i'm not ashamed to be here. i'm not ashamed to be a blue-collar worker. and i'm not ashamed to be middle class. >> do you think there's an attack on the middle class in this country? >> definitely. we pay the taxes. we keep the programs going. nobody realizes that. >> what do you think of the political bickering and the focus of some of the radical governors putting out legislation, who attack collective bargaining? >> it's ridiculous. it's an insult. >> does it hurt america? >> of course, it hurts america. the right to bargain is an american right. no one should lose it. >> what we learn here on the streets of new york, and i'm four blocks away from my office, whether i'm in minnesota or wisconsin, in the middle of the

country, or on the streets of new york, it's amazing how i find, rick santorum, americans who are not ashamed. americans who might love the country just as much as you do. and are willing to stand up on the street corner against those who are profiteering on the backs of the hard workers. yet, your party wants to take away collective bargaining. your party. you are the man who stands in caucus with jim demint and calls obama a -- that's what's great about america. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, what do the republicans care more about? the country or politics? text "a," for country. text "b," politics to 622639. and you can go to our blog. i'll bring you the results later on on the show.

joining me now is joan walsh, editor at large at salon.com. and robert reich, author of "after-shock," now available in paperback. do you think they understand what makes a country great? what really makes this country great? or do you think that the republicans have an exclusive on that? >> i think that they are very deluded about what makes this country great, ed. you know, we've talked about this before. we made decisions as a country after world war ii, and even during the depression, when things were very dark, that we were going to use government to help people get ahead. when there was a recession, a depression, we were going to use government to come in, put people back to work.

put demand back in the economy. and create after -- after the post-war period, create the american dream, with public education. with highways. with mortgage insurance. there's a picture that we all got here, those of us that made it, that we did it alone. we devoted resources to building the american dream and to building the middle class. and some people look it for granted like they didn't have help. but they had help. and now, they're dismantling those systems and those terrific programs that created the middle class. >> i totally agree. and robert reich, i think we caught rick santorum at an ad-lib moment. but i think it speaks volumes about their philosophy, that they have an exclusive feeling about what they're proud of, as opposed to liberals, as opposed to democrats.

and they're the only ones who can step forward and be proud about america, and know how to create jobs in this country. and president obama wants to pass a road construction bill and trade agreements. the trade agreements are a heavy lift. but he says we can do things now. he says he need congress. your thoughts on that? >> the house of representatives is clearly just say no, with regard to republicans, they've stopped everything. in the senate, they've stopped everything. the problem here, and a fundamental problem, is if the middle class america and the working class america, if they don't have the wages, if they don't have the jobs, they can't turn around and buy things and keep the economy going. we cannot as an economy, as an society, maintain ourselves with a little slice, the top 1%, getting 20% of total national income. 40% of total national wealth. we haven't seen this since the 1920s. and you know something?

when we reached a peak in the 1920s, with regard to the top 1% and their portion of the national income and wealth, what happened then? we had a great depression because the middle class and the lower middle class couldn't keep going. they couldn't keep spending. they couldn't keep buying. they weren't able to support themselves. trickle-down economics does not work. everything the republicans are saying. we have to have tax cuts for the rich. we need a small government, privatization, deregulation. all of that has hurt american middle class, the working class and the poor. >> tonight, the republican debate, on another network, what you just said, mr. reich, is exactly what they regurgitated for the first half. they have nothing on the table for the workers. joan, i want to ask you. how is the president supposed to navigate and bring the country

forward, when he has to worry ant the jim demints when he's being called a socialist. when is this going to stop? the president says it needs to stop. >> the president can't stop it, ed. we know that. these people have treated him this way from day one, from january 2009. i think wa hat has to stop is the president tolerating it and not talking directly about it. he's talking about jobs, programs. many things will not pass the house. maybe nothing will pass the house. but i think it's important he get out there and bring democrats together. if only democrats, that's fine with me, if that's all we can get. around an agenda to putting people back to work. you know the youth unemployment rate is almost 50% right now. we're having a generation that's cut off.

not just cut off from money, but cut off from the world of work. there are things we can do. if he puts out this great agenda and the house votes it down, i would be happy to see the american people know this is who voted it down. this is what democrats stand for. and this is what republicans voted it down. >> i want both of you to look at what mitt romney said today in iowa. this is what he said about corporations. >> we have to make sure that the promises we make, in social security, medicaid and medicare are promises we can keep. one, we can raise tax on people. corporations are people, my friend. we can raise taxes -- of course, they are. everything corporations, it goes to people. where do you think it goes? >> i wish mr. romney would come on this program and explain the graph i put up quite often about where middle class wages have been in 30 years and where profits of the corporation have gone, right to the top.

>> corporations are not people. the supreme court in that absolutely grotesque case, citizens united against the federal election commission, the supreme court dominated by republican appointees, corporations are people. their first amendment rights are wiping out the first amendment rights of average people, who can't keep up with the money the corporations are plowing into the system. mitt romney is a corporate -- i won't say stooge. that's not fair. that's not nice so say. but certainly, is someone who represents the big corporations against the interests of average, working people. there's no question about it, ed. the republicans, not only jim demint, but mitch mcconnell. over and over again, they said their number one objective is not to get the economy going. it's to get president obama out of office. and they're doing it. they want a bad economy because that helps get obama out of office in 2012.

>> great to have you with us on "the ed show" tonight. thanks for joining us. remember to answer tonight's question there at the bottom of the screen. we want to know what you think. john boehner took a break from the golf course to hammer the president's speech today. and john mccain is getten an earful in his home state. i'll tell you how the postal workers are coming under attack in washington t of times, thingse right underneath our feet, and all we need to do is change the way we're thinking about them. a couple decades ago, we didn't even realize just how much natural gas was trapped in rocks thousands of feet below us. technology has made it possible to safely unlock this cleanly burning natural gas. this deposits can provide us with fuel for a hundred years, providing energy security and economic growth all across this country. it just takes somebody having the idea, and that's where the discovery comes from.

welcome back to "the ed show." governor rick scott of florida. here's another dandy for you. another republican who hates big government, unless, of course, it benefits him. he pays $30 a month for health care coverage for his family. pretty good deal, huh? there's 32 state employees for that coverage. $30 a month to cover your entire family?

but for other families in florida, the same coverage costs $180 a month. and retired state employees, like a retired firefighter, it costs up to $1,243 a month. 41-times what governor rick scott pays. is that fair? but rick scott's idea of getting real with the common man is to spend a day in someone else's shoes by working, for example, at a doughnut shop for a day. customers handed him pink slips to represent the need for jobs, not doughnuts. >> you should be ashamed that i have to go out and buy things for my daughter's classroom. i'm just fine. >> thanks for coming. >> this is a guy who laid off thousands of state employees and cut benefits and turned down federal funds for health care from the affordable care act. listen, folks.

the fight over health care are not over because of people like rick scott. they're standing in the way. because of all of the bickering going on in washington, we haven't talked much about the 99ers. we haven't talked much about the unemployed. we haven't talked much about those millions of americans who still do not have health care. we're trying. we're trying to do our little bit, here on "the ed show." to give an additional way to show that you care about all of this. you can help us with this issue. "the ed show," the national association of free clinics are joining forces and hosting a health clinic on august 29th in new orleans, louisiana. msnbc viewers have funded seven previous clinics around the country. and your donations will bring vital health services to patients in the city of new orleans. we'll go to other places, as well.

i ask you to make a donation or learn more about volunteering. go to their website, freeclinics.us. you know what's good in america? what little bit you and i can do. if we can help another american out, see a doctor, save a life, some of the things that i've seen at the free health care clinics are absolutely amazing. this is about one of the most american things you can do in your own way, is to help someone out. your neighbor. someone in new orleans, in this country. not in afghanistan. not in baghdad. not in iraq. but here at home. i ask you to do your part. i will. i'll be broadcasting on the 29th. and my wife and i will donate. , gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.

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there's been a lot of talk in washington right now that i should call congress back early. the last thing we need is congress spending more time arguing in d.c. what i figure is, they need to spend more time out here listening to you. and hearing how fed up you are. that's why i'm here. that's why i'll be traveling to a lot of communities like this one over the next week. that's what congress should be doing. go back home. listen to people's frustrations with all the gridlock. listen to how frustrated folks are with the constant bickering. and the unwillingness to compromise.

and the desire to score points, even if it's at the expense of our country. >> president obama in michigan today. and members of congress are getting an earful back in their home districts. look at how a tucson, arizona, crowd turned on john mccain when he started talking about corporate rates. >> corporate rates are 35% -- >> fed up is the term the president used. mccain and other republicans don't care what their constituents are screaming about. they only answer to the people who line their pockets. that's why he is spending his time out on the links. on tuesday, boehner shot an 81. at a fund-raiser at the infamous golf club in toledo, ohio. boehner took a break from happy hour to go over to the clubhouse to take a cheap shot at the president today.

american families and small businesses are hurting in this economy. and they are still asking, where are the jobs? president obama likes to talk about being the adult in the room. but there's nothing adult about political grandstanding. so, now, get ahold of this. it's political political grandstanding if the president comes out and asks congress to work in their home districts. it's political grandstanding if the president asks the congress to do something on jobs and he says there are things they can do right now. boehner and the republicans have done nothing to create jobs. but everybody is pressing the president to come up with this plan. what plan do you want him to come up with? he's put more incentives on the table than any president in the last 30 years when it comes to small business. and they fought him every step of the way.

unless john boehner spends less time working on his handicap and more on the economy, we'll be in the bunker for a long time. bernie sanders is on the line tonight. senator, good to have you with us. i apologize for our satellite technical problem tonight. you are in remote areas working with the folks. i appreciate you being with us tonight. >> good to be with you. >> do you think that we will do anything on jobs between now and the end of this year? >> well, we've got to do. that is the issue that everybody in america feels most strongly about. people are working part-time when they want to work full-time is up 16%. you have young people who graduated high school two or three years ago have never had a job. and are worried whether or not they ever will have a job. so, we have a real crisis in terms of unemployment. and yet, we have enormous needs in this country that have got to be addressed.

so, we need an aggressive jobs program, to put american people back to work. and that means dealing with infrastructure and addressing the fact that our roads, our bridges, our water systems, our tunnels, our public transportation systems are in desperate need of work. >> and, senator, do you agree with the president there are things that congress can do immediately that will enhance the job market, immediately? >> well, of course there are. >> okay. but the republicans aren't going to work with him on this. >> no, they're not. and frankly, i don't quite agree with the president's sentiment that all of us in congress the problem was bickering. i don't think so. i think the problem was, you had republicans who said from the very beginning, they want to protect the wealthiest people in this country, millionaires and billionaires who pay nothing in taxes. and some of us want to change that.

but i think really what we have to do now is make the case to the american people that a nation so divided, when you have 400 people at the top earn more wealth than the bottom half, that's an unstable situation. if we're going to create the jobs, rebuild our infrastructure, change your trade policies. this is a huge issue. we cannot continue these disastrous trade policies by what companies are shutting down in america and moving to china. 50,000 factories have been lost in the last 10 years. this trade policy is not working. these corporations are going to have to start investing in a country called the united states of america rather than china and every other country around the world. >> senator bernie sanders, thanks for joining us tonight. i appreciate it so much. independent from vermont. coming up, mitt romney says president obama is in over his head. but sean hannity has a different view about the president's policies. that's handing him in the zone.

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now, tell me if this doesn't sound familiar. congress passes legislation that causes major financial problems for a government agency. okay? then, they use that manufactured crisis to strip workers of their rights. now, it's not scott walker we're talking about.

or john kasich in ohio we're talking about on this issue. it's some of the in the house of representatives. do you know the details of this story? you want to know him. and more bad news from our friend, tim pawlenty. rick perry, and lynn windstedt, and bill press, are in, too, to talk about it. how much do you know about the united states postal service?

you hear a lot of negative comments about their finances, don't you? well, earlier today, i spoke to the postal workers in orlando, florida. these are men and women in the same boat as republican employees in states like wisconsin and verizon workers across the country on strike right now.

they're fighting for their jobs, their rights and their futures. the united states postal service, announcing today that it wants to reduce its work forest by 20%. but layoffs of that nature are prohibited by union contracts. that's where the republicans step right on in. gop congressman daryl isa has introduced a bill that would slash postal worker wages, slash benefits and end protections against layoffs. but the financial problems facing the postal service, and i want you to hear this, were created largely, not by you and me but by the congress. in 2006, a law passed was forcing the postal service to provide 75 years worth of pension funding within a 10-year window. who the hell else has to do that?

independent firms estimate that the united states postal service already overpaid the fund by $50 billion to $80 billion. so, even though the post office made $226 million in the first quarter profits for this year, 2011, all of that money went to the congressional mandate fund. you know what they're trying to do, folks? they are trying to shut down the united states postal service. they want to privatize this, as well. and i want to make it very clear tonight that not one tax dollar goes to running the united states postal service. it is all operated and funded through the stamps that you and i purchase. joining me tonight is cliff duffy, he is the president of the american postal workers union. mr. duffy, great to have you with us tonight. >> good to be with you, ed. >> did what i say wrong? or is that accurate? can you add to it? >> that's very accurate, ed. the postal service has overpaid into their retirement monday, billions of dollars. that's money that's withheld from the workers and was matched

by postage revenue that we, through our productivity, have earned for the postal service. and that was given to congress to prepay our retirement funds. well, the actuaries, the independent actuaries said there is at least $50 billion overpaid in this one fund. and $75 billion paid into it by the other actuary. this is done by the office of the inspector general and the regulatory commission. >> what can congress do to reverse this? to balance your books a lot better because you are a profitable organization. what happened? >> even with that money drained off in our retirement system, the postal service was required to prefund our health insurance into retirement by $5 billion for the last five or six years. without the $20 billion or $30 billion going into that fund, the post office would be profitable.

congress wants us to continue to put money into these retirement funds and to keep prefending. but if they would credit the postal service with that money, that's actually the workers' money. >> sure. the postal service would pay off its debt, pay off the debts necessary and have cash to get through this trying time. >> so, your mandate -- >> the concession that's been created by the congress to blame the workers. they're blaming the workers for the problems of the country, which is there's not enough commerce in this country because they allow the system to set up to send all of the work overseas. >> why is the congress coming forward and saying they want to -- the postal service wants to cut the workforce 20% and talking about five-day delivery service. why do they want to do that? >> it has gone to the congress and asked the congress to

release these funds. they say, we can't release these funds. if they release the funds back to the postal service, it would show how much underfunded the rest of the government is. and would show how badly and poorly the rest of the government is run. they put tax dollars into it. postage dollars have come in and it's run properly. they want to take my retirement funds that i put in and the postal service put in, to pay the retirements for the other federal agencies they haven't funded. >> wow. >> that's totally improper. >> it is improper. you don't use tax dollars. it's all from stamps and services that you sell, correct? >> that's correct. they're taking our money and using it for other things in the federal government. >> do you think they want to privatize? do you think there's some that want to get rid of the postal service and go privatization? >> there's some people. the postal service still makes $70 billion a year. $70 billion worth of business comes into the postal service.

and it supports the trillion-dollar industry out there, paper manufacturing, envelopes, cards, companies that the postal service supports. >> and reducing it to a five-day delivery service would hurt our economy. there's a lot of studies out there that show that. >> we would find a way to get the medicines to the individuals. but we want to serve the american people. the postal service is respected by 80% of the public. congress, 20%. i'll be -- i hope the public stays on our side in this to know that we want to provide a service. and we want to be there to help the public. >> i'll do more on this. i use your service every day. cliff guffey, thank you very much. sean hannity talks about president obama's black liberation theology. we get hannity in the zone rick perry says he's running. and what is sarah palin up to? . excuse me? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language.

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sean hannity talked about president obama's black theology.

mitt romney said something he often says that president obama is in way over his head. but hannity wanted to suggest another theory. >> is it just that he's in over his head? or is it more complicated than that? he holds to that liberation theology, rooted in social justice and entitlement society. >> why does hannity treat social justice like it's a dirty word, instead of something that

america should strive for and be proud of? same thing goes for entitlements. the big three are the bedrock of america's social safety net. but hannity ties that to what he calls president obama's, quote, black liberation theology. president bill clinton was a pretty big defender of entitlements. he cared about social justice. do you think hannity would characterize his beliefs as black liberation theology? but hannity is more than willing to go there. for playing the race card, hannity has dipped once again into psycho talk. rick perry is in. the palin bus tour rolls on. and i'll ask lizz winstead and bill press about those stories and a whole lot more. rick perry says it's time to jump into the presidential race. he must think we've all forgotten about the last president we had from texas. lizz winstead and bill press join me to discuss all of that next. stay with us.

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and the idea that this is what i'm supposed to be doing. i mean this is starting to get to that comfort level. i've got the calmness in my heart.

>> well, i guess it's official. texas governor rick perry is running for president. perry will make his formal announcement saturday in south carolina, the same day some of perry republican rivals will be competing in the famous iowa straw poll. well, that's got to tick off good, old 2% tim pawlenty. pawlenty has invested heavily in that state. he needs the publicity. and looks like perry will be the only one trying to upstage pawlenty and some of these other bottom of the barrel candidates. >> she says she's not a candidate for the presidential election yet. but sarah palin's tour bus the headed for iowa. >> joining me now is comedian, and co-creator of "the daily show," lizz winstead, and bill press, he's the author of "toxic talk, how the radical right has poisoned america's air waves." lizz, what does the bus mean? is this a message from the heavens?

>> i'm surprised she's not at the riots or anybody that's cameras. she's completely unavoidable. and rick perry apparently goes to the page of stealing thunder, as we. it should be an interesting time in iowa. >> bill press, what about iowa? is she getting in? or was she showing up because everyone else was there? >> i think she's a big tease, ed. we've all dated girls like this. you know? in the past, i might add. she just happened to be in new hampshire when mitt romney announced, right? lizz said she was at the casey anthony verdict. and just happens to be in iowa this weekend. but i think the rick perry thing was interesting. if you watched that debate tonight, ed, they are desperate for abm, anybody but mitt. they're so desperate, they would take another texas governor.

you know, all that texas swagger all over again. perry is like bush without a brain. >> he is. i call him the dollar store bush. >> right. i like that. >> lizz, rick perry says he has calmness in his heart about running. what does that mean. >> calmness in his heart? did you watch him on the pulpit last weekend? he's not a calm man. the way the gop was talking about him, i thought he was born in bethlehem and we might have to look at his birth certificate, too. >> he loves his country. but he loves the baby jesus even more. people don't realize, rick perry. you talk about an extremist, right? this is the guy who wants to repeal the 16th amendment, get rid of the income tax. he wants to get rid of the 17th amendment so senators are elected by state legislatures. this guy is pretty dangerous.

he is way out there. >> i really think that he is the perfect spokesperson to show that, you know, texas is 49th in like s.a.t. scores. the perfect person to bring all that out. >> let's look at it this way. who is going to vote for him? is the republican base going to go for him? the hard christian right would have to go with him or bachman. where does it go? >> there's the tea party base that i think is going to dominate, certainly the iowa caucuses and may determine the nomination. one person is going to get it, right? it will be michele bachmann or rick perry. or sarah palin. i don't think she gets in. and if it's between rick perry and michele bachmann, i think rick perry takes it away from her. and he's the only one that's got any shot of knocking mitt romney out of the nomination. >> i think that's right.

i think he's been fooling people with his texas record. and i think he's really, really been courting the tea party and getting a lot of money from him behind the scenes, even more than bachmann has. >> about tim pawlenty? is this the end of the road this weekend? >> here's what i never understood. when looking at the landscape of people you're going to vote for, and we're talking about the economy and how people are worried about the economy. when you're pouring in millions of dollars and you're at 1%, that's a bad investment. tim pawlenty, versus how much he's pouring in himself and how much he's getting out of it, he's rendered himself a bad investment. >> i have to say tonight, i thought tim pawlenty handled himself pretty well. he went after mitt romney tonight. he went after michele bachmann. i think it's too little too late. i think people don't believe the minnesota story. and he has about as much charisma or excitement about -- ron paul has more. >> it's butter on a stick at the state fair.

>> bachmann put the hammer on pawlenty. she did not back down. and i will say, as someone who pays taxes in minnesota, she was correct tonight. what she stated about tim pawlenty, about his record was factually correct. and he was reeling. >> that's right. we'll talk more about the big debate coming up. but the fact of the matter, i thought tonight that newt gingrich looked pretty strong. what do you think, bill? >> i did, too. let me tell you something. i found myself nodding in agreement. when newt gingrich said the supercommittee is the dumbest idea that congress ever came up with, that's where -- >> hear, hear. >> that was good. newt is a lousy candidate. he's a good idea man. he has too many ideas. and maybe one-tenth of them makes sense. >> great to have you with us tonight. tonight in our survey, i asked you, what do republicans care more about? the country or politic