from hot air ballooning to whitewater rafting to selling fish, small business in america takes many forms. we travel around the country as we celebrate a new season of small business lessons. that's all coming up next on "your business." small businesses are revitalizing the economy. american express open is here to help. that's why we're proud to present "your business" on msnbc.

hi there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg. and welcome to a special edition of "your business." today we celebrate the start of our sixth year giving you tips and advice to help your business grow. as a small business owner myself, i've learned so many great lessons getting involved in the issues and operations of some great american small businesses. in west virginia, i picked up a paddle to find out how three once-competing whitewater rafting companies merged both their companies and their cultures. ♪ once upon a time in the wild and wonderful mountains of west virginia, there were three river rafting companies. classic river runner, mountain river tours and rivermen. they had all started in the

1970s, and each had their very own personalities. they were friendly competitors. and they all loved running the business they were running. so you can only imagine what it was like when the owners of these companies were approached about merging their operations into one. >> when paul first called me, i really wasn't interested. i actually said no. we had a good gig going, we were growing, we were making money, not a lot, but we were paying our bills. >> that's brian campbell, the founder of rivermen. a former financial guy who spent his weekends as a river guide for class six. he was called to change his job, his lifestyle and become the ceo of a new or sort of new company. >> first thing i realized in this thing, they were very profitable at one time and because of overcapacity, price cutting and a little bit of a decline in revenue due to users, that they weren't nearly as profitable. to make this work, i was going

to have to merge at least two if not three together. >> and that's how the idea for the lansing, west virginia, based adventures on the gorge was born. paul approached three company owners. all involved said the didn't wouldn't be an easy one. >> i did see some challenges because we were competitors, for sure. that relationship we had to work on. >> but soon enough paul was able to convince them that the key to their collective survival was joining forces. >> there's a point in the family business where the family is necessary for its survival. there's a point in a business where the business outgrows the family. and the rivermen were at that point. >> so they came to an agreement, got a team of investors, and each founding owner maintains partial ownership in the new company with paul serving as the ceo. while the founding companies all fall under the adventures on the gorge umbrella, the brands themselves live on independently. when i walk around this campus

here, i still see logos for all three companies. why do that? it seems expensive and maybe more confusing to the company. >> the loy alty is to the brand. when you say the rivermen or you say class six, they automatically become emotional and tied to that brand. >> but adventures on the gorge means nothing to them? >> adventures the on the gorge means nothing to them. and that's the tricky part. >> many employees who lived through the merger are still quite loyal to the individual brands. >> i found a lot of the backroom operations, housekeeping, accounting, maintenance, even the reservations desk, office desk were easy to merge. the most difficult has tb guys. >> because they had personalities and competitiors really. >> they're competitors. anybody that's in charge of eight people for a day and getting them down a river safely has got to have an ego. some of them have very large egos. >> paul had another challenge besides merging the

personalities of the companies. with the investment money he raised to form adventures on the gorge, he wanted to do something none of the three original companies had done before, and that meant looking beyond the whitewater. >> our strategy is very simple. we need people to stay longer and do more things. you can run two or three different rivers. you can participate in a kayak school. you can take a climbing and rappelling class. you can do mountain bike tours, you can do horseback tours, you can do atv tours. the zip lines have been the biggest product we've expanded into. we now have two zip line courses. >> with all the new activities and a bunch of new accommodations, the adventures on the gorge was turned into a true all-inclusive destination. >> the future was a resort, the future was, you know, more lodging, restaurants, and a variety of scenarios. >> sometimes radical change needs to happen. it has made us much more

profitable. it has made us a much stronger company. we've been able to reinvest in things. >> after three year, paul says he's incredibly proud of what they've been able to accomplish in both merging cultures and building out the company, but he says they're nowhere near done yet. one day he hopes that these three companies will truly be one. >> as time goes on, it will take more prominence and you'll see it being on top of the main brands. as time goes on, you'll see the flip flop go on. and some day that's our goal that adventures on the gorge will be the primary brand that is associated with the adventure resort. >> we always talk on this program about the challenge of making your product or service stand out from the rest. i traveled to california's napa valley where i took to the skies to find out how a hot air balloon company was able to rise above the competition. ♪

look up in the skycalifornia's valley, and this is what you see. hot air balloons flying high above, dotting the sky with their colorful canvases. to anyone on the ground, these balloons and the rides taken in them seem indistinguishable. but the pilots and the owners know exactly who is who. >> those are some of the balloons when we call napa valley balloons. >> they founded their company above the west in 1979 and started working at it full time soon after. >> i used to have a real job. then after the merger and acquisition, you know, you are either paid too much or you know too much and you get fired. >> when they began there wasn't much competition. only one other company. today there are six. and any tourist looking to book a ride can find a bunch of flyers that, frankly, don't look

that different from each other. carol ann said she worked very hard at making above the west stand out. >> i actually think that's one of the hardest things to do, from a marketing point of view. >> early on, the rogers decided that they were not going to compete on price. that that was just a losing battle. >> we realized that if we lowered our price five dollar, they'd lower theirs five. >> the problem with having price being the only thing that differentiates you, there will always be someone who is less expensive than you are. >> today they're the most expensive company in the area. they charge a flat nonnegotiable rate doing things a bit differently than the competition. >> everybody is able to move up under us with their stated price, but then they discount under that to get more people. >> they say that their pricing may turn off some people, but those aren't the customers they're after. >> the passengers that come with us, i think they are more

interested in value than price. >> because of the high prices, they're able to offer a more customized experience, taking up fewer passengers, only doing one trip per balloon a day, which limits waiting time, things that endear them to other luxury services around the area. shirley quick is the manager of a high end hotel nearby. >> we feel confident when we recommend nielsen and caroline's company that they'd get the same service they'd get from us. >> all of these choices, the prices, the limited rides, have also limited the rogers' ability to grow the company. >> were we to decide to get really big, we would have to change what we do. we are the size we are because we want to be size we are. and we think that's the best way to offer a really excellent ballooning experience to our customers. >> that said, carol ann admits there are times when she and nielsen look across the sky and

have a moment of wondering. >> sometimes you do look at someone else who is maybe flying more people and you think, gosh, maybe we should just do what they do. >> but then she says, she comes back to her senses. >> you have to think long term because there's a lot of short-term marketing strategies that could change things for you a little bit but then have consequences for you in the long run. >> and knowing that you have a strategy that you're going to stick to gives you time to focus on what this is really all about. >> i enjoyed it. i enjoy it. >> when i walked into diane's cleveland-based store and met her, my first impression was this woman is a spitfire. she's a woman in a male-dominated business, and it was her touch which turned this gun store business around in part by appealing to an underserved demographic. ♪

>> you're pump action shotguns make a very distinct noise. your burglars of criminals, they all know that noise. the chances of them walking away from that is another story. >> there's no question about who's in charge here, but for some customers at the cuyahoga county, ohio, gunshop, diane donnett can be a bit of a surprise. >> i shock people from time to time because i am a woman that knows about guns. >> diane not only knows about gun, she buys them, sells them and teaches people to use them. >> go ahead and put your finger on the trigger. that's good trigger control. >> she's one of a small number of female gun store operators in the country. >> believe it or not, there's more than you think. its jaups they're all behind the scenes. where i'm out front here most of the gun shops, they're family businesses. the men are the out front, but the women are in the back

running it. >> diane, who runs the whole show at stonewall gun shop, from stock room to showroom, never planned to have a career dealing in firearms. it was her husband that got her into it. >> he had more experience with firearms, i really didn't know anything about firearms. >> tell me about first time you shot a gun. >> oh, my god. well, let's see, the flame went out that way, the casing went out that way, hit me in the head. i set the gun down and said, this is not for me. i just -- i was just -- it was just totally freaked me out. >> diane didn't stay freaked out for long. in fact, she discovered she has a knack for the business. and a taste for the sport. >> it's like with anything that any woman gets into, if you're going to run any type of business, you've got to know what you're doing. you got to know your product. you got tot be able to sell it. you lean out and you're going to

push out. >> okay. >> you put the magazine in. i'm going to release the slide. when you're ready, go ahead and fi fire. >> where did it hit? >> right there. seven. >> she certainly knows what she's doing when it comes to operating firearms. >> you got the side. all right. lean forward. >> i told you you were going to get . after 17 years in the business, she rarely takes her eye off the target. >> i don't want to say i'm meticulous because i'm not, but i'm very detailed when it comes to buying, and i have to laugh when i go to the different shows, my rep, they'll say, can i help? yeah, just stay out of my way. you know? >> staying out of her way has certainly benefited the shop's investors. >> when we took over, the old owners were doing about $300,000 a year.

we're at over 2 million. >> some of that increase in profit comes from cultivating a whole new class of customers -- women. >> the majority of women do feel more comfortable talking to another woman about firearms. >> do you attract more female customers? >> i believe yes, we do. but it's not only just because i'm here. it's because my guys. i have a great staff here. they have their days when i'd like to wring their necks, but i do have a great staff, and they listen to the women. >> theresa, diane's number two in the stonewall -- >> you see more families coming in. it's a lot different than what it was when i started here two years ago. >> you want to shoot together. >> yes. >> do you need nug? >> a box of shells.

.38 specials. >> any time you add customer demographics to your industry, you're going to make more money because you're going to get more clientele. >> bringing in women isn't the only reason her store has thrived. diane credits her savvy investors for choosing to put their profits back into the business. >> well, i got a lot of different guns here and different calibers. >> that's how you run your company. you do not take no for an answer. you will bargain somebody down. by the time someone walks out of the door, you've got what you wanted. >> most of the time, yeah. >> after 17 year, diane may be full of bravado, but she still remembers how overwhelming it felt to start up a business from scratch. >> when i came in knowing nothing about it, i literally got down on my hands and knees and gave the business to the lord and said, you got to walk me through this because i don't know what i'm doing. and he has been, you know, my support, my wings all the way

through it. still ahead, we continue to celebrate the start of our sixth season with a look at how a colorado dog company had to start an ancillary business in order to survive. and coming down the pike, up up to my gills in tuna as he flounder around at the fulton fish market. this is my band from the 80's, looker. hair and mascara, a lethal combo. i'm jon haber of alto music. my business is all about getting music into people's hands. and the plum card from american express open helps me do that. you name it, i can buy it. and the savings that we get from the early pay discount has given us money to reinvest back into our business and help quadruple our floor space. how can the plum card's trade terms

get your business booming? booming is putting more music in more people's hands. ♪ celebration ♪ let's all celebrate and have a good time ♪ ♪ yeah yeah >> as a small business owner, i'm always look fog are that competitive advantage. here at "your business" we know that's why you watch us. to give you actionable advice that will help you do the same. one of the most important skills to have is the ability to negotiate with customer, clients and vendors. while some people, of course, are natural born negotiator, many of us aren't. it is tricky, it can get

uncomfortable and can get contentious, but it's something you can learn to do better. i went to new york city's fulton fish market where haggling over the price of fish is considered a fine art. >> 785. >> i'm coming in here, i admittedly know very little about fish. >> right. >> i'm here with a mission because i have to buy some fish. what would i do? >> there are four things. number one, you must know your product. whether it's fish or stocks, you have to know the kind of commodity that you're dealing in. in this case you have to know the quality, the size, the species. you can't look at a red snapper and say how much is that blue fish? that's not a good thing. >> because they know that -- >> you just fell off a banana boat. >> do research. >> you have to know yourself. you have to exude confidence. you have to be firm when you can and not firm when you need to be.

>> so that's a good negotiator. >> the third thing you have to do is know the person you're buying from. you have to know if he has a lot of product, he's got a little product. if he's sitting on a lot and you know he's sitting on a lot, he's going to probably be a lower price than somebody else. >> you said know the person you're negotiating with. and you're talking about knowing their supplies, supply and demand. what about knowing them as a person, is that helpful? >> with any business, do you know the guy on a daily basis, you're going to probably get a better price than somebody else because he likes you. >> when you go into negotiations do you have a number in the back of your mind saying i'm willing to pay and sell that. >> yes. >> and you'll get that if you have to? >> you don't want to lose money. you want to make as much money for your company as possible. so you're going to try to maintain a certain number. >> how do you decide when to be tough and when to be nice? >> you bat those hazel eyes at me, you're going to get away with it once.

twice maybe. three times it's not going to work. you got to depend on knowledge. you really have to depend on knowledge. >> by nice, i wasn't referring to flirting. >> okay. >> by nice, how do you know when you should be sort of a -- drive a hard bargain. >> again, that has to do with availability. how much product is around, and how many people want it. it's supply and demand. if there's a lot of supply and everybody wants it, the price will stay moderate. if there's not a lot of smi and everybody wants it, that price is going to stay high. and there's a fourth thing that i didn't mention yet. >> which is? >> one second. >> you got to try and fit in. you're not going to get anywhere dressed like that. >> all right. let me go put this on. >> love the look. >> much better. >> clipboard.

no one can be a purchaser without a clipboard. all right? >> all right. >> hold it close to you like this so nobody can actually see your business. >> is there anything on this clipboard? >> absolutely not. and a pencil. you have to have a pencil. know the seller. these guys are big met fans, so i brought you a met hat. make us fit in. they're going to like you right off the bat. >> all right. good to meet you. >> know your product. >> how much for the jumbo? >> jumbo for 550 and the larger 450. >> these are 450. these are long island? >> those are from jersey. >> know yourself. >> is this your best price? >> that's my best price and the best quality. i have less quality for cheaper. >> no, no, no, i'm not interested in any less quality. >> know how high or low you can go. >> one box for my best box of

fish is 450. the best i can do. >> my first time here, i'm going to be coming here a lot. let's just make a deal. first time beginning of doing business, not the end. >> in good faith, i'll charge you 440 and hopefully i'll trust you to come back. >> 440? i'm looking more like 4 dollars. >> 4 dollars, i can't do it. cannot do it. >> what if we split the difference there, between $4 and 4.40. >> you got a deal. hopefully i'll see you next week. >> we often talk about passion fueling entrepreneur efforts, but oftentimes that's just not enough. earlier this year i traveled to colorado to meet a man who had to build a secondary business to support his primary passion and surprised himself when he discovered how they now support each other. ♪ it's a great day for a dog sled ride ♪ >> if dan could choose to do one

thing for the rest of his life, it would be this. >> it's almost a spiritual connection i have with the dogs and all of nature. >> this is the way he's felt since 1970. when his love of dog sledding compelled him to start his company krabloonik, a company that takes people on dog sled rides. opening the business was a dream come true. but even before he hung up his shingle, he knew that the sledding would not pay for itself. >> the restaurant came about as a support system, financial support system for the dogs. >> it sounds a little crazy. support one financially risky business, dog sled rides, with another financially risky business, a restaurant. but that's exactly what dan did. >> i was too young and dumb to know better when i started that. and i had a lot of energy. >> a lot of energy was what it took. dan not only created the idea for the restaurant, he actually built it himself.

>> a lot of these logs were put in not only by myself but help with a lot of other people along the way. a lot of love went into this place. >> that was all part of the plan. he could have supported the sledding doing something else, but that would have also been somewhere else. >> the restaurant made sense because i could do it here with the dogs. >> soon after it opened, the restaurant started doing exactly what it was meant to do -- generate cash. >> the restaurant business, when we first started, was highly successful, especially financially. >> dan attributes the success of the restaurant partly to the beautiful location and the unique menu which features local game, but he says it's also in large part because of the dogs. >> there's the symbiotic relationship between the two. it's kind of magical, if you will. >> the two separate businesses quickly became dependent on each other, not just finl financiall as courtney says, marketing as

well. >> could the restaurant exist without the dogs and could the dogs exist without the restaurant? >> they could but it would be a much smaller operation. we wouldn't run as many sleds. and if we didn't have the dog operation and just a restaurant, you know, we would compete and market at a much different level than we do currently. >> the customers eating at the restaurant confirmed the suspicions. >> we actually came yesterday to visit the kennels where her son and my brother is together. and we just thought it was amazing. we felt like we had to come back today and actually experience it ourselves. >> but the issue with two businesses tied at the hip which is when one gets bad press, so does the other. charges of animal mistreatment on the dog side have been voiced on various occasions. state police investigations have consistently upheld the practices they found at the company, but nonetheless, there are still some people who are angry, and that anger is

directed towards the name krabloonik. dan has always believed the companies do better together than alone. >> it is an operation that works very well together. if we separate one from the other, that's an unknown i don't care to find out about. >> its thaps combination that attracts so many guests. evo is the manager of the viceroy, an upscale hotel just a few miles away in snowmass village. >> you tell me that your dog teams have done the eye did it ra rod, that's the olympics of dog sledding. >> the ultimate challenge. >> though he has the choice of recommending dozen of restaurants he often sends people to klabloonik because it has something people can't get anywhere else. >> it's not man made. it's a destination in itself and it's genuine. >> the authenticity comes from dan's true love for the dogs. talk about the restaurant, and he is all business, but get him

out on the sled, and everything he says clearly comes from the heart. >> this is true freedom. >> which is why it was particularly gratifying for dan when in the 1990s a funny thing started to happen. >> i had to scratch my head quite a bit about it when it started to happen. >> suddenly the dogs started supporting the restaurant. after many years of the restaurant providing cash for the sledding, things turned the other way. but dan said, though he loves the dogs best, he'd never close the restaurant. >> to separate that, either separate the two businesses out or get rid of one is going to hurt the other. so that's why we're keeping them. >> it's that one couldn't exist without the other at this point or on a much different scale and a scale i don't care to know about. >> taking the long view of the business, dan says he knows there's a cycle and at one point the restaurant may again support the dogs, and that's okay with him, as long as he gets to keep doing what he loves best.

>> good job, jack, good job brody. good dogs ♪ snow white snow >> to learn more about today's show click on our website. you'll find all about today's businesses plus information to help your business grow. don't forget to be a fan of the show on facebook. we love getting your feedback. follow us on twitter. next week copyrights, patents and trademarks. >> you have to pick and choose your trademarks very carefully. if you name your company something, that's a good thing to trademark, because that's your identity. >> we devote our entire show to explaining what the differences are between copyrights, patents and trademarks and why it's imperative that you protect your intellectual property and brand. till them i'm j.j. ramberg. remember, we make your business our business.

this is my band from the 80's, looker. hair and mascara, a lethal combo. i'm jon haber of alto music. i've been around music my entire life. this is the first alto music i opened when i was 24. my business is all about getting music into people's hands. letting someone discover how great music is, is just an awesome thing. and the plum card from american express open helps me do that. i use it for as much inventory as i possibly can. from picks...to maracas... to drums... to dj equipment... you name it, i can buy it. and the savings that we get from the early pay discount on those purchases has given us money to reinvest back into our business and help quadruple the size of our floor space. and the more we expand, the more space we have for instruments