now, warren buffet had an op-ed he wrote today where he said we've got to stop coddling billionaires like me. that's what warren buffet said. he pointed out that he pays a lower tax rate than anybody in his office, including the secretary. now, i may be wrong. that's just a guess. >> i'll have my tax return here. take a look at it in a moment. i get taxed up to $100,000. and my super-rich friends get taxed up to $100,000. and that tax hits the people in my office very, very hard. they have a spouse working, they get taxed up to $200,000. what i propose would not touch the taxes of 99.7%.

i'm talking about .3% of the american public. the people from $1 million on up i think should be asked to share a little bit of the sacrifice we're all being asked to share. >> good morning, tuesday, august 16 on set. msnbc contributor mike barnicle. msnbc and "time" magazine senior analyst mark halperin. best-selling author. combat army united states, josh moore and nicole wallace. how are you doing this morning? >> outstanding. >> when congress comes back, if the president puts out some sort of a jobs plan, some sort of a proposal to repair the economy, will the buffet plan be included in that, or some form of it? >> i think the president is going to have to go back to what was in the original budget in the beginning of the year and some of the things he's laying out, a balanced approach with new revenue.

>> approach. you've got the talking points. >> one of the mysteries of the president's fight with congress, why he can't win on the question of raising taxes on the wealthiest americans. it's popular in polls. and makes economic sense to a lot and he's not going to be able to force any pressure on the republicans in congress. it will be part of the plan and it will be interesting to see if he's selling something as opposed to promising something whether he has any more luck. also, finally, there's a reason the white house hasn't put out a big plan previously because if you put it out, it gets attacked. and particularly in the house, it would be slammed as dead on arrival. so they're changing course. they're going to put something else. but it brings a downside. >> nicole, why do you suspect that the president hasn't come out with something like this. mark said, it's popular in the polls to tax, as warren buffet said, higher over to make $1 million and higher over $10 million. why wouldn't he put it out there and dare republicans to vote against it. >> ife wille believed running on

tax increases was popular, he would have done it instead of continuing the bush tax cuts last year when he stood in the rose garden and said now is not the time to raise taxes on anyone. our economy is too fragile. and he's also speaking a different language as he always does with republicans and increasingly independents in the country. broad swath on the right led by people like senator coburn who's on this show all the time, who are enthusiastic about tax reform. this is the closest he can get, close the loopholes and lowering the corporate rates and individual rates. that might be a verse till ground for compromise with republicans on the revenue side. >> part of it may be the lead editorial in the times today is about the gas tax, the federal gas tax. the hike in the federal gas tax, which is about to expire in the end of september. so, if you read the editorial

and you recall what happened over the last three months, the debate in congress about the debt ceiling, we could be in for another harang about the federal gas tax. might be that the president has to be very gingerly approaching any talk of taxes. >> i think also what you're seeing is there's two different dynamics in this conversation right now. one is the language of when that -- who do we define as wealthy has started the changes well. the idea it's $250,000 in tax and those people has really been wiped off of the table. talking about $1 million and $10 million. the other thing the conversation might be different at this time. you're right. you're not going to create a large platform based on i'm going to raise taxes therefore vote for me. >> vote for me. >> but at the same time, this idea of spending cuts has become a part of the larger conversation as well. and the president knows if we're going to make strategic spending cuts in terms of how exactly we look at disperbursing the reven we have to add in, in terms of

parity. we have to have a tax increase or revenue increase as well or his base would -- completely lose the base on it as well. >> can pick up the middle. starts adapting the language to what people on the right and what the middle are for. they're for making entitlements more expensive for the wealthy. republicans are for making health care more expensive if you have the means. the means question is a bad word in washington. openness on the right to making it more expensive. whether obama demands and insists they call it tax increases or categorizes the tax increases, that's up to the white house. there are some in congress who are receptive to finding revenues in other places, they just haven't been able to get on the same page or use the same words as the white house. >> we were talking yesterday about -- for lack of a better phrase, the buffet set.

people like warren buffet whom all of us know. all of us know very wealthy people. a number of wealthy people who are in business who actually have solutions to the financial mess that we're in and are willing to participate in solutions such as, you know, raise my taxes, i'm a wealthy person. here's what to do about entitlements. the math is beyond me. there are people out there who know how to do this. for us, none of them are in congress. >> they should run, i mean, you know? it's -- >> too smart for that. >> let's listen to what the president said yesterday. more of what he said on the trail. republican candidates ramping up their campaigns across the country. president obama also breaking out his tour bus, cruising the midwest, talking yesterday to voters in minnesota. and in iowa. the obama administration insist this is is not a campaign trip. the president is spending three days on a bus tour that includes town halls, speeches, and the like. during a speech in iowa late yesterday, the president focusing on the economy saying

the fiscal problems we face today political system the result of a political system that's broken. he says he'll address that when congress returns from its recess. >> moving forward, my basic attitude is, we know what to do, i'll be putting forward when they come back in september a very specific plan to boost the economy, to create jobs. >> president obama also took the opportunity to go after his 2012 challengers for not wanting what he calls a balanced approach to deficit reduction. mentioning a moment from the republican presidential debate last thursday. >> they were asked, would you take a deal in which for every one dollar of tax increases, we cut $10 in government spending. ten-to-one ratio. and no one was willing to take that deal. now, what that tells me is,

okay, you've gotten to the point you're thinking of politics, you're not thinking about common sense. you've got to be willing to compromise in order to move the country forward. >> texas governor rick perry meanwhile spent the day campaigning in iowa as well. the competition massachusetts governor mitt romney was asked about perry's candidacy and whether or not governor perry can take credit for the jobs created in texas. >> spans not just four years as governor, but also the 25 years that i've live in the private sector. i think understanding how the economy works by having worked in the real economy is finalfin essential in the white house. i respect the other people in this race. the only other person that has the extensive private sector assurance besides me is herman kane. i respect herman kane but it's helpful to have the government experience i've had. >> romney is campaigning in new

hampshire today, governor perry in iowa yesterday meanwhile responded to what you just heard from romney. >> romney took a slice or two today saying he has private sector experience and makes them better qualified to create jobs. >> give him my love. >> what do you think of that? oh oh oranges and apples. running a state is different from running a -- a business. >> what i would say is let's go take a look at his record when he was governor and look at my record when i'm governor. then you have apples to apples. >> it's on. as of yesterday, they're going head-to-head and calling each other out by name. >> rick perry's first full day in iowa. created news walking around the fair. he's engaging president obama pretty intensely, having engaged governor romney intensely. getting in late. he's got a lot of ground to make up. he's had the campaign on fast forward. he's -- he's creating a lot of stir and a lot of -- a lot of the focus and he's said some

things yesterday that the left in particular is going crazy on. and it's going to be interesting to see how he react to that today. does he clean it up? or does he replace it? perry does not back off on too many things. but he created an image for himself yesterday as someone who's combative and saying some things that people on the right have taken issue with. >> talk about that. calling the fed and ben bernanke treasonous in some regard. you worked close why the bushies. what's the relationship with rick perry. what does he do in this race? >> there's a bit of lor that gets into the descriptions of the men not being that close. i don't understand that to be the case. the two organizations are probably similar enough to not really work together too closely once the bush organization moved to washington. i have to say, rick perry is that tall ice cold glass of water that we were crawling through the sand ready to reach

for. republicans are thrilled to see him in the race. republicans that may not have been the kind of voters that would respond to his popularity with evangelicals are thrilled to see him answering all of the questions. i think one of the problems tim pawlenty had is you wanted to shake him and say you ear in third place, just answer the questions. rick perry has something to say. he has a record to run on. and you know rick perry has been a refreshing and exciting and invigorating force in the race in the couple of days that he's been in there. >> did you find it refreshing and invision rating when he said the president loves america. go ask him? >> a lot of people do. a lot of people find his willingness to confront president obama on his relationship or his feelings about america appropriate. and a lot of people find his riff in the announcement speech that he downgraded america, a he downgraded -- a lot of people -- that speaks to people's kordic like of the presidency so far.

so i think people are responding to perry on all levels. >> we've got a sound bite. you talked about the contrast between perry and george bush. perry addressed that yesterday. >> i'm not running -- i'm not -- george bush is not my opponent. he's a former president. we give all the respect for that. but we're talking about -- >> wes moore, how does that grab you when rick perry or anyone else running for public office when they're asked, you know, do you think the president loves america? and they say, well, go can ask him? >> quite honestly, it demonstrates a smallness of politics. the president's love of country and the president's love of this nation should not be questioned at this point. this is a person who could be doing anything. he decided to devote his life to public service. if we don't respect that, if we don't embrace that, we're

sending a large statement to a lot of people coming up behind the president. a lot of people who are idealistic and passionate about this country saying your talents are needed elsewhere unless you want to get involved of the silly game of politics where we'll question your citizens and your patriotism. i heard rick perry twice now say that part of the reason he wants to run for president is because he wants to give the military. his words were -- i want the military to be able to look up to the commander in chief again, which i found -- >> be proud of -- >> be proud of the commander in chief. which i found not only insulting as a foreign member in the armed forces, but quite mysterious and comical in a way. when you sign up and you take an oath to -- to wear the uniform of this country, you take an oath to the constitution of the united states and take an oath to pledge your allegiance to the president and to the commander in chief. to say we now need someone else to step in to respect our

uniform i find comical and something beneath someone running for president of the united states. >> these comments are against people taking the president on. but the totality of what he said yesterday are some things that -- even some on the right are unpresidential. what he said about the fed, the thing wes just talked about. see if rick perry stands by all those things when he's asked about them or whether he backs off. sometimes people say things in the heat of the campaign trail they regret and they can take back for some people. questioning whether the president loves america is unambiguous for a lot of people. i heard about it because i have a lot of time on my hand. i googled a speech given here in new york in the madison square

garden about the hatred towards him and his presidency. president obama and his people might be inclined to take a listen to that same speech from october of 1936 where fdr went through a list of things that his administration had done from 1932 to 1936 to get the country out of the depression. he ended the speech by say iing republicans, not all of them, some republicans hate me and hate what this administration is attempting to do. he paused for effect and he said, i welcome their hate red. it's a pretty powerful description for defining a difference between two parties. now, we're in a juncture in this country where there are huge divisions in america. we all know it, we all hear it. when we're in the campaign trail, you can sense it. and i don't know that that kind of language would work today, but just the idea that you have people running for president insinuating that this president,

the incumbent, our president, no matter how you voted, does not love this country as much as this other candidate, it's highly insulting. >> well, we've all now seen enough of the postgeorge w. bush presidency to see a little window to what the liberal and the hatred on the right was like for him. i mean, he and laura bush have both written extensively about what it was like to disparage the office of the presidency. and it's never appropriate. i would say that this was his first weekend as a candidate. i think everybody on the field, including barack obama, hillary clinton, the very elegant and polished secretary of state, all candidates, you know, step over their words. we'll see if this is something he repeats and a theme of candidacy. but there is a sense on the right -- mitt romney talks about this all the time, that obama hasn't been the most effective or committed cheerleader for american exceptionalism. i hate to throw it out there because it becomes -- it means one thing on the right and

another thing on the left. it has been a debate that's gone on for three years. it's never wise, ever, to make a generalization of what the military thinks of anyone. the commander in chief, god, the enemy. that's just -- you don't do that. you have no way of knowing. you don't generalize any community. that's a mistake. so i think if he seeks to creep it up, he'll say, i heard that from some people i know. candidates step in it the first weekend out. see if this is a refrain he repeats and then give him a tougher time. but it was the first weekend on the road and be in large, he made a pretty big splash. >> does this speak to a problem that a lot of people he has, he can appeal to them easily and get the nomination and struggle to move to the senter in a general election. >> there's the issue of what voters he can appeal to.

but more immediately, people around mitt romney and some others said this guy is not going to be able to perform at a national level. he's going to get the kind of scrutiny he didn't get as governor or a candidate before and he wouldn't be able to keep from saying things that would cause controversy and alien ate some voters. he said three things yesterday that fit into that category. it's his first day, but wasn't like he didn't prepare. he knew what was coming. be interested to see if the romney people tried to take advantage of some of the things he said yesterday and how the white house reacts. maybe he will want some of it back. but i think it gives -- puts more weight on the side of the scale that says this guy may have started big in some ways but he's got challenges that he may need to overcome. >> the comment on the fed too coming up in a few minutes. coming up, secretary of agriculture and the governor of iowa, tom vilsack. chuck todd is live on day two of the president's bus tour. and pat buchanan and eugene

robinson. after the break, politico's top stories of the morning. but, first, bill karins with a look at the forecast. we're watching pretty nice conditions across many areas of the country. one more pesky morning with the showers in the big cities in new england. today is the transition day. raw and rainy. by the end of the day, should be okay. tomorrow is gorgeous. you can see the green on that map. that's rain coming down. albany to syracuse, scranton area, the cities are dodging the showers, making a run for philadelphia. dc, you're dry. north of philadelphia, there's a kman of showers. a winter storm, temperatures are cool in the 50s and 60s up there in areas of new england. the forecast, we're going to make it to the 70s, very cool. dc, you'll be better. same with buffalo and pittsburgh. gorgeous weather today in chicago. watch out for thunderstorms in minneapolis. in texas, we're doing it again, 100-degree heat. there's hope in new york city for a peek at sunshine today.

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top tier in this race for romney, perry dchlt. >>. >> fair to say. you're not consistent 12-term congressman 200 votes of winning the straw poll. >> top tier now of bachmann and perry and romney. and we haven't mentioned and we should -- >> thank you. >> we haven't mentioned and we should, rick santorum who did surprisingly well for the amount of money and resources that he had. >> rick santorum? he didn't get half of what ron paul got. he lost to the guy who lost so

bad he dropped out of the race. >> mitt romney continues to be the front-runner. but we have rick perry as well and now michelle bachmann. let's not count out john hundredsman? >> he got 69 votes. if all of them met at the same iowa kquiznos, he would say, that's fine, no problem. >> jon stewart. politico playbook, politico's executive editor, jim vandehigh. not a lot of media coverage. what's going on? >> he got shafted. his people feel he got shafted.

he didn't get any coverage of anybody in the newspaper and tv programs. if an alien looked down on earth and the state of 300 million get to dictate who's up and who's down, that's the way the media works. that's the way the game is played right now. he should have gotten more mention than he did. that's why there's a backlash among the very fervent supporters. the supporters nationally are small. but they're extremely, extremely organized and aggressive and pushing back towards the media. you can see that today. we're talking about it. two stories on politico about the backlash. paying attention to the fact that his second place finish by 200 votes was overlooked. >> our media and political culture with two parties

dominates. we're not good at covering people who don't seem like they could get elected and for whose ideas for some americans are outside of the main stream. like ralph nader, millions of americans who believe what ron paul believes who don't find major party candidates speaking to their concerns. he and his issues deserve more coverage than they get. >> the argument against it is that people don't believe he can win based on past performance. but you could say the same thing about michelle bachmann. she can't win and she's getting a ton of media coverage. >> there's the larger issue that jim just alluded to. it's been with us for decades. it is that you have take iowa and new hampshire. in iowa, the middle of the summer, 16,000 people with corn dogs in their hand, dictating, you know, the coverage of politics for many months on end. you have the new hampshire primary where you have, you know, maybe 42,000 white people, you know, going the polls, dictating the coverage of american politics. two terrific states. we love them, we love the people in both states, they are not the

country as a hole. what do we do in the media? we make them the country as a whole. there's something wrong with the process how it's covered and how it plays out. >> ron paul would argue it's not just about iowa. they get shafted consistently and this is just one flash point to make that case. >> it's true. if you look at the polling numbers, he does as well often with the candidates that we talk significantly more about. it comes down to the electability issue. we've seen this movie before, we know how it plays out. a real ceiling for the votes he can get nationally. therefore all of the attention nationally, rightfully, gravitate to the candidate that has a better chance. if you think about this as an editor, you're weighing that. you want to make sure the different voices are heard and readers are exposed to different ideas. you want to make sure if you're an insider pub lib occasion, li

focus on the people who have the chance to win. you focus with laserlike on their performance and what happens to them. >> how much also do you think this has to do with the newness factor? i mean people have seen ron paul before. they know his issues. and the fact that michelle bachmann is new to the scene. in many ways, his issues have been co-opted. ron paul was the original tea party candidate. you can see how the tea party is taking the issues. how much does this play to the lack of interest in ron paul's campaign. >> i think it's a really good point. it plays into it significantly. you're in cable tv or covering this stuff day-to-day, she's much more interesting. she's new to the stage. you never know what she's going to say. she tends to be be more controversial inside her own party and nationally. so a lot of that coverage ends up getting -- gravitating towards her. at the end of the day, she could end up in the primary process

with significantly fewer votes than ron paul because he's got a consistent base across the board. right now a feeling inside the republican tar by she could emerge as one of the final two and she's interesting so the spotlight gets moved to her. >> federal reserve in the gold standard? come on. we've got to ask you one more story on politico right now. reporting some concerns already inside rick perry's campaign about fundraising. what are you looking at here? >> they move fast and furiously to raise money. one of the people they turn to is a lobbyist who's caught on tape not long ago. i asked for $200,000 for the bush library in exchange for a meeting with the foreign leader. now and perry had criticized this lobbyist. now that lobbyist is raising money for perry. pledged to raise up to $500,000 for him and privately telling people he's trying to and has arranged a meeting with president musharraf from pakistan. so there's fundraisers who are

worried they had to move so fast, in that process, you get sloppy and controversy and the last thing they want with controversy is what's a pretty smooth rollout for perry. >> a look inside the politico playbook. thanks so much as always. >> have a good day. >> coming up, a nascar rivalry at its finest. this one will not be settled on the track. listen to this -- >> you won't even fight me like a man after, so if someone texts me his address, i'll go see him wednesday at his house and show him what he needs. he needs a whipping. >> there you go. sports next. confidence, with depend in color.

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>> new forever. welcome back to "morning joe," time for sports. history last night. >> jim thome. >> one of the good guys. the twins, jim thome. though you think of it as an indian entered the night just two home runs shy of .600 for his career. top of the six for the tigers there, deep to left center. that's 599. then in the seventh, he does it again. going the other way.

the 40-year-old jim thome becomes the eighth player in major league history to hit 600 home runs. look how exclusive this club is. a list that includes hang aaron, babe ruth, willy mays, ken griffey jr., sammy sosa, a-rod, and bonds. one could take, if one were so inclined, sosa, bonds, and a-rod off of the list given some of the allegations and what not. he becomes a list of five people, one of whom is jim thome. that's a huge feat. the twins, by the way, won the game. nine saves. >> one of the best guys in all of sports. not just baseball, approachable, nice. >> did tid right way. >> some other games. giants and braves. this is the scenario you dream of. bottom of the the ninth, bases loaded. down a run. going connect off of the middle of brian wilson. the tying run comes in easily.

here comes the winning run too. a rare blown save for brian wilson. the braves win in walk-off fashion. last year's world series champion giants 2 1/2 games back of the diamondbacks in the nl east. going to want to win that division because they're five games behind atlanta for the wild card. by the way, the yankees beat the royals last night in kansas city. red sox had the night off. tied for the american league east. the monday night preseason game of the year, jets and texans in houston, rex ryan, his first major public tantrum of the young season. trying to get a time-out. can't get anybody to listen to him. there you go. don't tell him it's preseasonal. slams the headset on the field. yelling at refs and his team. he was sacked here. 6 of 7. four first downs. 73 yards. jets lose 20 to 16.

now what are you waiting for. a little load rage. monday's finish came after a scary-looking wreck and sprint cup race at watkins glen than western new york. after that race, because of that wreck, temperatures flaring. one of the drivers tries to confront greg biffle. a little pushing, a little shoving. the crews holding that guy back. things are unsettled. boris took to the press looking to finish this business. >> i'm just -- i'm more upset with greg biffle. he's the most unprofessional little scaredy-cat i've seen in my life. he won't fight me like a man after. if someone texts me his address, i'll go to his house and see what needs, needs a whipping and i'm going to give it to him. he was flipping me off, giving me the finger, professional. two laps down. he's a chump. he won't even let me get out of the car. he comes over and throws a little baby pumping and when i get out, he runs away and hides

behind big guys. he won't hide from me for long. i'll find him. we'll show up and race him a black eye one of these days. >> i have a strong suspicion that boris is the classic dressing room fighter. if you notice when he goes after greg biffle never took his helmet off. >> that's true. that's true. you know what else he did? didn't forget his sponsors. make sure as he's going on in his tirade, he steps in front of the taco bell sign. >> it's a taco bell tirade. >> brought to you by taco bell. on his crew, as they're engaged in the fist acuffs, that lovely message, thank a teacher today. coming up next, the must-read opinion page as mike barnicle is culling through them right now.

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one of the reasons, one of the powerful reasons i'm running for the presidency of the united states is to make sure that every young man and woman who puts on the uniform of this country respects highly the president of the united states. we are an exceptional country and we're going to stay an exceptional country. we don't need anybody apologizing anywhere in this world about america. i get a little bit passionate about that. that's okay. i think you want a president that is passionate about america. that's in -- that's in love with america. the great picture of iowa that

he spoke at today. let's talk about the one about the military. the one we played is sunday. you want a man who the military respects. a man wearing the uniform. he said that again in iowa. this was not a slip. >> this is a talking point. and the thing is, he's a military veteran. he should know better. >> yeah. >> as members of the armed forces, regardless of if you are a democrat or republican, it doesn't matter. if you're an enlisted man, an officer inside of a uniform, you're not allowed to talk about politics. that's how much the military tries to draw the line between politics and what we do. we respect the constitution, we adhere to the constitution, and adhere to the commander in chief. so particularly as a veteran, he should know better than a statement like that. >> go ahead. >> there's two problems with this. one is they're saying inappropriate things about the president, which no one should do. and second, it's bad strategy. the way to beat the president, every smart republican has told me not to make it personal, say

as mitt romney does, the president's a nice guy. he's in over his head. we need someone difficult on the economy. this may have a short term appeal for ron paul supporters. but rick perry has plenty to talk about that doesn't cross the line and will appeal to those troops. >> there is a way to make the point that the military would trust you as commander in chief as candidate. it happens in every general election. barack obama trotted out his retired generals. every candidate, george w. bush did the same, john kerry did the same. this was an element of candidacy for president because they're running to be the next commander in chief. this is an appropriate group from which to boast you have support but he's doing it the wrong way. he would be better served by having retired military or veterans say, you know, this is -- this is my candidate. i endorse him. and keeping it positive and keeping it based on why perry would be a good commander in chief than turning this

negative. it's discordant, i think, hearing him speak for the military. >> the best way to articulate that point if he's trying to make that point is come up with a position that has to do with foreign policy. come up with the policy to come up with the war. >> what has he done? what have you done to increase the benefits in the city. i don't know if he doesn't have the record. but he would be better served talking about the issues and leaving it to surrogates to say he would be a better commander in chief if that's the point he's trying to make. >> one of the ultimate ironies is we are involved in three wars, three wars. and, you know, we have a governor of texas running for president who just it's a throwaway line for the incumbent president. i don't know if he loves america as much as i do. and by the way, have another corn dog. if you're going to talk about the commander in chief's role, talk about it. don't just skip over it. >> speaking of governor perry today. this is a must-read op-eds.

richard cullen in "the washington post," watching the emergence of rick perry over the weekend was nostalgic. here again was the president declaring for the presidency and wise people cautioning us on the air and in print that what worked in texas might not work in the nation. perry is too conserve too much of a cowboy, too religious, and while we're at it, too handsome. this, more or less, is what we heard about ronald reagan. he's nearly on mt. rush more. the white house has plenty to worry about. perry may not turn out to be ronald reagan, but again, he doesn't have to be. barack obama has turned out to be no barack obama. >> which candidate the white house would rather run against. i think it's clear despite what richard writes this morning they would rather see rick perry than mitt romney. >> i don't think they're unanimous. whoever emerges from this fight, presumably, one of those two, will have beaten a titan candidate and will come out

strong. i think you could make the case that mitt romney is -- where he's weakest, this notion that he doesn't stand on principle, this notion that he's not comfortable with people plays to obama's strengths. and that he may have a harder time against rick perry. you could argue it either way at this point. if rick perry runs a disciplined campaign, doesn't make the mistakes they had yesterday, they may well run against mitt romney. >> do you think they worry about the suburbs of philadelphia and cleveland with mitt romney than they do with rick perry? >> the thing about the white house and their attitude is they're rational and focused on who they think the nominee is going to be. most of the people around the president, rather than wore awo who would we rather run against, they worry about who are we going to run against. >> several people around the president are also adult enough to realize their real opponent is they're running against reality. >> than the record. >> running against what they

miss today in the country, the economy and the sense of despair about the economy. >> 73% is the wrong track record. 9% unemployment. the president's approval rating hovering around 40%. >> i've been to this movie. i was in this movie. it doesn't end well. and the problem for obama is that i saw him on the stump yesterday removing hymn the way bob dole is talking in the third person. the way he moves himself on the field. i'm sure a lot of people voted for him because of what he believed in, the liberals, the progressives, a whole bunch of independents who voted republican before but maybe hasn't voted voted for him because of the idea, the notion, the promise that he was going to change washington. not only did he not change it, but he didn't even claim it anymore. and i'm just not sure that that

is going to fly. >> the thousands upon thousands of people who voted for the first time for president obama, are they going to vote for the first time out? >> this is why in some of the big ways they would rather face rick perry. rick perry is the nominee of the republican party, the president will turn out to vote against him. it's a huge mobilizer of liberals who voted for the first time. >> for a lot of the first-time voters, grant park, the thrill is gone a little bit. >> particularly because of a lot of the young voters, those are the people who are most unemployed. we look at the fact that, 44% of the young people are chronically unemployed. coming up, the white house press secretary robert gibbs will join us. talk to him. up next, a little news you can't use. primarily, bill clinton giving his opinion of rick perry. yes, he disagrees with policy

points. but he does approve of the governor's good looks. that's next. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the jetta, awarded a top safety pick by the iihs. that's the power of german engineering. hurry in and lease the jetta s for just $179 a month. ♪ visit vwdealer.com today. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one.

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oh, yes, is it time? >> yes, prerecorded mika.

time for the news you can't use. to bill clinton's first public take on the newest contender in the race to occupy the oval office. rick perry in iowa yesterday. bill clinton was back in manhattan talking to a group of fire fighters. taking issue with some of perry's policies that really liking his good looks. >> i got to tell you, i watched governor perry announce for governor. he's a good looking rascal. he said, you know, i'm going to washington to make sure that the federal government stays as far away from you as possible. well i ride on air force one in the marine one helicopter and go the camp david and travel around the world and have a good time. i mean, this is crazy. >> i think you can like small government and still ride on air force one. >> a bit of a lame -- >> he is a good looking rascal. >> good looking rascal.

>> the good looking rascal at the iowa state fair chowing down on pork chops and a stick and the way they do it back in texas. >> how is it, governor? >> that's plenty good. that's plenty good right there. >> pork like that in texas? >> they probably do. you just have to chase them down on the river. >> skinny this year. >> yeah, they're skinny this year. that's for sure. yeah, we have too many ferrell hogs we're trying to get rid of. >> the hair these guys have, great hair. >> tom brokaw made that point yesterday. perhaps the best hair he's seen in the republican field. that's saying something. tom covered a lot. >> possible exception of pat buchanan. >> speaking of pat buchanan, he's standing right over there. join us in a minute with robert gibbs and chuck todd. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is the network. a network of possibilities.

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if this guy prints more money between now and the election, i don't know what y'all would do to him in iowa, but we'd -- we would treat him pretty ugly down in texas. printing more money to play politics at this particular time in american history is almost

treacherous -- treasonous in my opinion. all it's going to be doing is devalue the dollar in your pocket. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle, joe wallace, mark halperin with us. mr. pat buchanan joining us. >> how are go. >> quite a day in iowa for the governor of texas. ben bernanke and the fed. >> that one was for romney. he blew him the kiss, give him my love. the clip we're playing here where governor perry has questioned whether or not barack obama loves america. let's listen. >> we are an exceptional country and we're going to stay an exceptional country. we don't need anybody apologizing anywhere in this world about america. i get a little passionate about that. that's okay. i think you want a president who's passionate about america. that's in love with america.

>> then the follow-up to that, pat, was later in the day, a reporter went up and asked him. do you think the president loves america. governor perry said, quote, you need to ask him. you're a good reporter. go ask him. what do you make of that comment? >> i think it's rick perry's first day on the campaign trail. the apology issue. mitt romney used it. barack obama, has the values, apologizes for america. this is rough stuff. perry has to make some statements that he's going have to walk back a bit. this is the first day out there for a guy who's never been out there. he's been brought up from the minors and he's throwing a two head. >> didn't we get past this question in the country whether or not the president of the united states loves america? >> in presidential politics, you should not ask or imply someone

doesn't love their country, especially the president of the united states. rick perry is out there for the first time. it's raw and rough. i can remember the first time up reporters kept pressing. what are you going to do about the homeless. you have to get them off of the streets, they're dangerous. what if they come back, i think you have to lock them up. christmas, nationwide headlines, buchanan, locks up homeless. it's rough and raw. >> this guy in the past called the president a socialist. extreme rhetoric. the advisors said that's not what this campaign is going to be about. he's not going repeat those kinds of things because the way to win according to perry and every other republican is run on the economy, the jobs. this kind of stuff, besides being over the line, is going to distract from the message of saying i'm stronger on the economy and jobs than mitt romney. >> good point earlier on.

it's going work for some folks. >> sure. >> a lot of folks out there on the right that deeply suspect barack obama who think he really is -- he comes from a different culture than they do. he comes from a different part of america than they do. we're in a culture battle here. here's the guy who's standing up rough and ready and going to take him on. and so on appeal -- that fed stuff, right? he's going after ron paul. ron paul's base there, which is -- which has really grown dramatically in four years. >> sophisticated politician could make all those points without crossing the line. >> this guy is not that sophisticated on the presidential level. >> when you say it's going to work for him, work for him for whom? who are the people who have the appeal? the people they appeal to. where would they go? >> i think a lot of them go to ron paul. a lot of them go to ron paul. and what everybody did for the republicans are looking for is somebody really to take on barack obama. and get in his face and fight

him and beat him. and i think this guy, from what i've seen in the first two days, there's rough rhetoric in there. but this is a very interesting appealing candidacy. >> if you don't believe that somewhere close to half of the country finds it uncomfortable that barack obama travels overseas and apologizes for things that this country did in the name of defending itself in the war against terror, you've got to get out more. i mean, there are a lot of people, and someone who wants to be the next president shouldn't use these word. but this sentiment that obama is as vigorous of a cheer leader for america as a president should be, this sentiment is prevalent on the right. and i think rush limbaugh is somebody who never minces his words. but even rush limbaugh has revised republicans to lay off some of this personal stuff and keep it ideological. republicans have the opportunity to have a high-minded debate

about an appropriate role for the federal government in american life. and, so, not only is it going to maybe turn off some people in the middle, but it's going to -- these are fights that are going to serve perry politically. >> why do i get the sense, though, that they can't stick to the real issues that confront this country, that cause voters to want to vote, the economy, whatever. they can't help themselves. they go personal almost immediately. >> a lot of republicans are motivated by an intense desire to make barack obama a one-term president. that does motivate a lot of people on the right. >> i know, but my contention would be that there's a huge difference between defeating an opponent and trying to destroy the opponent. you get the sense from some republicans they want to destroy this guy as an individual. >> they want a fight with barack

obama. when he came on and said give him my love. you have the race car driver on, i'm going to go over and take care of that guy in his house. a lot of john wayne republican, especially right -- they're up there cheering when they hear this type of thing. but i do agree, when you look back, read it in the paper and you say, wait a minute, what is he implying here? you have a problem. i attribute it to the fact that it's his first time out, you know if. >> out of the bullpen. >> you know, barnicle has im -- get out of the game, we near the big leagues now. >> romney has been disciplined. he has said all on the economy, not personal. and i mean, look, for the next few months, all of us are going to be in the world of buy nair choice. is it going to be romney or perry. you could say perry is inspiring people saying i'm going to rip obama's face off. but if he continues to make mistakes like this, it's going

to look undisciplined. people will say romney is a safer choice. >> watch back and forth between romney and perry yesterday on the economic credentials. romney asked about perry's candidacy and whether or not governor perry should take credit for all of the jobs created in texas. >> my jobs record spans not just four years as governor, but also the 25 years that i've been in the private sector. i think understanding how the economy works by having worked in the real economy is finally essential in the white house. i respect the other people in this race. but the only other person who has that kind of private sector experience besides me in the republican race is herman kane. and i respect her man kane but i think it's helpful to have had the government experience that i had. >> romney took a swipe at you today saying he has private sector experience and that makes him better qualified to create jobs. >> give him my love. >> do you think about that? that he has -- >> i think oranges and apples.

running a state is different from running a business. take a look at my record and his record running for governor. apples, apples. >> i'm grateful. he used popular language. >> who would you rather cover? >> rick perry. >> want to cover you. >> it's an exciting campaign. i like mitt romney a lot. this is excitement and energy and fire. i tell you, the conservatives all over america. >> i'm ready to cancel my vacation to cover rick perry. >> why am i getting the sense that rick perry is going to take the gloves off sooner rather than later. >> they could be the super pacs,

the supporters of perry that can form the committees that can span tens of millions of dollars on unlimited contributions. romney is so vulnerable often in the health care plan. what would happen to inn the future to romney's standings for somebody raising $10 million. >> look, they declared the individual mandate, obama's individual mandate is unconstitutional. so is mitt it's. they're going to go after him in the upcoming debates. >> there's been a lot of handling of what romney was talking about, whether rick perry should get credit. how they were created, what kind of jobs they are. strikes me as nitpicking. he created a ton of jobs in texas and he can run on that. >> the arbitor will not be us, it will be the voters. it will be a debate that will play out in the republican primary. i'll say this, whichever one

emerges as the nominee will be a million times stronger in his run against obama for having run against the other. so whether it's romney or perry, if they win in 2012, it will be because of the arguments they had to make at each other. a great debate. the republican primary is shaping up about which is the better experienced to grow the economy is a perfect stage on which to argue for the next many months. >> doesn't that close the circle on the argument that romney would be better off investing time and energy from iowa to take on governor perry? >> i think this is -- the thing about all that after yesterday's show all day, i think romney can't see iowa through the michelle bachmann and rick perry. because it's going to be an exciting race out there. everybody is going to cover it. he'll be dark in new hampshire

ten days before that. you come out of there with that kind of head of steam and the intangibles. he could roll over romney in new hampshire that would be all over. i think he's going to engage him. >> nicole, a flashback. joining us in washington, the former press secretary for president obama, mr. robert gibbs. robert, good to see you. >> mr. geist, how are you? >> doing well. going to let you and nicole go at it about the celebrity ad the mccain campaign put out. how dare you. old home week here, robert. >> good morning. >> how are you? >> you've got that glow that former presidents amend staffers have. >> i have a lot less daily stress in my life, that's for sure. >> reversing the grays, it looks great. >> you're about to get more stress. it looks like the campaign is picking up here. 9% unemployment. 73% of americans think the country is on the wrong track. the president's approval rating, 40%. what's the case to be re-elected as he goes out on the road.

>> look, i think the case -- you saw it with i think what you see with rick perry and mitchell bachmann and mitt romney now. you're going to have a choice between going forward or going back to a lot of the problems that got us in to this mess. i think if you think we're a tax cut for millionaires and billionaires away from a great economy, you have three perfect candidates to pick from. and michelle bachmann, mitt romney, and rick perry. i think there's going to be a very clear choice in this election in 2012. >> robert, good morning. >> how are you? >> excellent. i want to ask you about two things that rick perry said. the reaction to the substance and the appropriateness of what he said. one, when asked if the president loved america, he refused to answer he said, go ask the president. two, he suggested that he would be a better commander in chief because the people in the military would be more inclined to someone who served like he

has. >> i think the statements that he made were remarkable in the sense that just two years ago, the governor of texas openly talked about leading texas out of the united states of america and now he's this campaign is caused him to profess his love to the united states. ity it's a remarkable turnaround. any day now, rick perry will ask to see the president's birth certificate. but, look, these are the kind of crazy arguments that you have and the kind of crazy things that you're going to see much, much more of as each of the three candidates seeks to out do each other to pledge allegiance to the tea party to pick this nominee. mitt romney was openfully talking about his excitement about a flat tax though a few years ago, he called it a tax cut for fat cats. rick perry called social security a ponzi scheme. these are statements that you're going to see more and more of. rick perry pledging his love for

the united states after america after two years ago talking about texas leaving the union is a remarkable turnaround in a few days. hey, robert, first off time out for your job of being an offensive coordinator for auburn. we appreciate you being here this morning. but what is it that it seems to some people that the white house has taken so long to plant the flag on tax reform in this country? i mean, we understand all of the time spent on health care the first two years. but tax reform. especially the bush tax cuts, people making over $250,000 a year. what's taking so long? >> well, look, mike, the president would -- and i think was pretty clear in the negotiations that were just had with the budget that we got to roll back for those making more than $250,000 a year, the bush tax cuts. i think if there's any one thing that you're going to do, to

improve the budget situation, that's one of the biggest choices you could make. it would bear the most fruit for the budget and it would put us on a much saner fiscal path. again, you've got people on the other side of this. you watched this last weekend with the republican debate. when asked if you would support an agreement, for every $10 of budget cuts we raise the taxes by $1, will you sign on to it? none of them would. what is that ratio going to look like closer and closer to the iowa caucuses. we're never going to solve our budget problems without a truly balanced approach. that's what the president is talking about. i have no doubt we'll have a vociferous campaign about those tax cuts. after the president is re-elected at the end of 2012, the tax cuts for the richest are not going to be extended. >> nicole wallace. >> i've had your job.

the spokesperson for the re-election of a president in at best perilous political condition. this is the time the other side are going to hash out their primary. are you going to run again on going back to the past. are you really running against the ghost of george w. bush for re-election. >> it's clear. we're not running against george w. bush. but many of the policies that got us to the mess we're trying to dig out of now are the same policies that they try to go back to. >> not true at all. new proposals from the republic republican congress. new budget. >> the spending situation from these candidates is much better than your former boss. >> my former boss didn't come close to proposing the kind of cuts in federal spending that the candidates have. i want to give them credit as

candidates that are responding to the new fiscal reality. >> you know this, we're not going to -- discretionary spending makes up 15 cents to 18 cents out of a dollar of all that we spend our money on. >> paul ryan didn't suggest cutting discretionary spending. >> you're right. i'm wrong. you're right, paul ryan and the republican party. mitt romney. rick perry will sign on to it soon as well, have a much different plan than what your boss proposed. that's redo completely medicare as we know it. let's hand seniors a voucher and hope their medical expenses don't exceed it. the average senior is going to exceed it greatly. what they're going to tell you is you're on your own. that's the type of new idea that each of these candidates is hoping that the american people will buy into all a the same time, are we going to ask millionaires and billionaires like warren buffet to do one

thing differently so we can hand a voucher to senior citizens and redo their medicare? no, these candidates are not going to ask anything of those people at all. you're right, those are a whole new set of grand ideas. i think that the republicans in putting forward. >> you're going to have a heck of a time running on your old record. if you feel nostalgic, give me a call. >> send me a memo on how to do this in the re-election campaign, i'd love to read it. i don't know if sarah palin isn't going to be somebody that gets talked about because i'm not sure each same she rents a bus in the new primary states, she conjured up the media. >> i think she owns all of those buses now. >> she's a smart woman. >> pat buchanan. >> robert -- you rearranged again the quote, balanced

approach. that means we're going raise taxes. >> just on you, pat. >> you can't run over the tea party folks. why doesn't barack obama do what he did in december. he said we're not going to get them repealed. set it aside. you guys do that. and went ahead and beat the republicans in congress to get three out of the four things he wanted. it was a victory. why didn't he throw that aside and say here's the deal, republicans, with' loweller the rate ifs you get rid of all of the things in the corporate area and the personal area. let's do a big deal. do that. then do the entitlements. you get two big victories. tea party people with him. >> pat, i think you largely outlined exactly what the president wants to do inside the cabinet room. and the republican party wouldn't answer. >> do it publicly. i'll cut the rates but we're going to get rid of this, this, and this. >> one of the things that the

president is doing is trying to get the american people even more engage in this debate. and even more into challenging the republican congress to do something. what you outlined is what the president outlined, not just to the american people, but to the leaders of the republican party. the only way we're going to make real progress recess on our fiscal situation is to do something on both sides of the ledger, right? there are people in my party that don't want to hear if in order to preserve medicare for the future, we're going to have to make some changes. yes. >> right. >> but at the same time, we can't make changes for seniors and ask millionaires and billionaires to do nothing except continue to collect the huge tax cuts. that's not what the country was founded on. we're going to have to ask everybody to do their part. the president wanted everyone to do their part and outlined something that was big and granld. and despite years and years of talking about now saddling our

and grandchildren with debt, the republicans sat around the table and said, we can't do this. they wouldn't take yes for an answer because quite frankly, they were pledging allegiance to the tea party. a very slim faction in the republican party. and instead of doing something on bhaf of the united states of america, they're doing something on behalf of the political party. >> robert gibbs, you've received political advice from the bush white house and the buchanan for president campaign. all for you. >> that's great. >> he's an offensive coordinator. >> yes, yes. >> robert -- >> filibuster. >> great to see you again. look well. we'll talk to you soon. coming up, talk to former iowa governor and current secretary of agriculture, tom vilsa vilsack. and eugene robinson of "the washington post." and up next, chuck todd traveling with the president in iowa.

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upset of rick perry running in the race. let's try that again. >> it's a room full of young people and you're like, there's a new presidential candidate. please, ladies, keep your tube tops on. >> reported in the early days in the texas state legislature, rick perry used to wear his jeans so tight that his nickname, i'm not making this up, was crotch. ladies and gentlemen, item number 77 on my bucket list is the president of the united states named "crotch," wouldn't that be apaezing. >> welcome back to "morning joe," a gloomy day. >> rick perry, good in jeans. >> yeah, yeah.

>> cleared that up. >> chuck todd, political director and the host of the daily rundown, chuck todd. another man who looks good in jeans. i saw him in jeans in java joes the other day, rocking them. >> living in jeans on the road. need to do that, living in jeans for a week. >> chuck "forever in blue jeans" todd. >> they don't call him crotch on the campaign trail thankfully. >> that we know of. >> exactly. what happens on the trail, stays on the trail. >> sorry. >> nicole had an interesting exchange. i don't know if you can hear it with robert gibbs. >> i heard it. >> she asked are you going to run on the ghost of george. with bush. president obama on the stump says explicitly, i inherited this mess. is that a message that voters want to hear, that this is george w. bush's fault? >> no, i don't think they do.

you see it in the polls. i can see it in the last couple of weeks and particularly in the two town halls he had yesterday, his plan is to run against congress. he spent all of the time if will the first one talking about congress can do this, talks about trade agreements. congress could do this right now. he had a whole rift about that. at the second town hall, he said he's going to have his own economic plan, his own new deficit reduction plan in september. if congress doesn't do it, he's going to campaign against him. it's clear they've decided that's the best foil to have. when you look at the poll numbers, his aren't good, congress' are worse. pumpinging down might not be a bat strategy. >> the president mentioned when congress comes back, he's going to detail plans for it and

what's the initial reaction? >> none, you talk to people quietly, even democrats, say if they had this great plan, where was it six months ago, three months ago. where was it -- it's september. they've raised the bar on themselves to make it not only new but substantial. a plan for the super committee, the deficit reduction committee, the 12 folks to deal with. now they raised the expectation that it will be more than that. it will be a job creating -- it will be something to deal with the economy in full.

a big challenge for them to come up with something that doesn't look like leftovers. >> is there a problem with the train? the train was -- >> it's iowa. there's no problem. it's the iowa economy. the illinois economy. >> that scene right there is america. the river, the train whistle in the background. speaking of the united states of america and speaking as the president of the united states of america. and i asked robert gibbs this. perhaps you can shed some insight, why is this white house taken so long to fete to the inequities of the tax code. why now? >> the only explanation on this i think when it comes to tax reform is they didn't want to own a tax hike. they didn't want to own a specific. that's the same reason why you didn't see when he would talk about the grand bargain, he

wouldn't say specifically in public on paper on the record that he was for raising the retirement age. why they didn't fully embrace simpson bowles because in there was a specific plan when it came to dealing with tax reform that would have raised taxes on some people. in hindsight -- even they wouldn't acknowledge it. they would never acknowledge that. they wouldn't do that -- others close to them had the i wish they would have for six months been selling simpson bowles. because it's a specific plan. it's in a larger context. a little easier to sell the bitter pill of a tax hike. >> the president is going to clearly come out for the billionaires and the millionaires and all that and his plan. is he going to get specific on

entitlements where they're going to have to be paired back. because it was his reluctance to do that and nothing on the table, i think, that held a lot of democrats behind him, but he gets specific on that, are they fearing a backlash from that side? >> i don't know what they're going to do. this is a closely held thing. i would be surprised if they didn't have specifics. two many plans he touted. he's touting simpson bowles and dimitri-rivlin with substantial forms of the medicare system. so i would be surprised if this plan didn't go ahead and own something like this. he's already -- i did have a couple of aides acknowledge to me a few weeks ago at this point, there's no more pain on the left to fear. they've already received it, right? the ones upset. the folks on the left that are upset of what he's talked about on social security and medicare, you know, it's not like you're

going to make a more -- they already believed he's willing to do some -- willing to do some things that they don't like. so go ahead and own a specific plan. and make the middle believe you're the reasonable guy in the room. >> neil diamond. >> blue jeans. >> if you hang out on the mississippi, willie. you find any old cabinet secretary hanging around. >> look at that, chuck. >> they sort of hang out here at the river. chuck, we'll see you at 9:00. [ male announcer ] members of the american postal workers union handle more than 165 billion letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? millions? tens of millions? hundreds of millions? not a single cent.

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the point is some things happen in washington where we think that kind of compromise we do every day in our own families with our neighbors, co-workers, and friends, somehow that's become a dirty word. that's got to change. that's got to stop. we're going to choose country over party, the next generation over the next election. if we are willing to do that, i have absolutely no doubt we can get this economy going again, we can put people back to work again. small businesses can start

growing again. but i'm going to need your help to make it happen. you've got to send a message to washington that it's time for the games to stop. >> how'd that work out for you. >> secretary of agriculture, tom vilsack. good to see you this morning. >> nice to be with you guys. >> tell us first how the people of iowa are doing. you, of course, lived and governing that state for so long. how are they doing? how's the jobs picture in that state? willie this, is a state with low unemployment rate, 6%. we're seeing the strongest agricultural economy we're seeing in the history of the country. we're looking at a record amount of ag exports bringing jobs in

the country and prove bottom line for farmers and ranchers, strong economy prices. so far with the difficult weather, it looks like the yields are going to be enough to maintain the strength and stability of agriculture. when it's responsible for one out of 12 jobs in the economy, you know a farm state like iowa will do well even through the difficult times. >> great news for iowa. looking also at the national jobs picture, the president taking the bus tour through three mid western states this week. what's the idea? what's the president doing here? >> the purpose of the bus tour is to put the president in rural america. so the president wants to make sure that the rest of the country wants to make sure that everyone understands the contribution that rural america makes to all of us. not just our food and fiber and feed, but 16% of the population contributes to 44% of the military. an important part of america. and the president is putting out a series of ideas and plans

today and over the course of the next couple of weeks to stren h strengthen the economy in rural america. we announced the opportunity for the sba to double the investment in rural america, small businesses of $325 million, $350 million commitment to help businesses grow in small towns. >> mr. secretary, you've been in the business of politics for quite sometime. your name has been on the ballot. you've gone out there and asked people to vote personally for you up or down on various issues that have confronted your state. what's your sense of the what the president is running against. what's out there? what's your sense of what he's up against? >> well, i think the president obviously is working hard to create job opportunities. i think he's running against the

number. you see employment of 9%, that's a concern for the president and the country. he proposed some things such as the infrastructure,putting the country back to work, building bridges, roads, all of those things are important. they're very important in rural america because that's how we raise the branches and the cities and the rest of the world. >> wes moore is with us with a question. >> good morning. >> many people don't know that food stamps fall under the department of agriculture. nearly 1 in 7 americans are on food stamps. what strategy -- what's being done now going forward addressing the poverty and the poor within the country and bringing alleviation to those kinds of numbers. >> well, obviously, it's putting people to work. which is why we're going to have some interesting things in the course of the forum this morning. later this morning, we're going

have a press conference with secretary mavis and secretary chu to announce something that we think is exciting in terms of job growth. when you talk about the foot stamp program, you have to recognize the economic stimulus. every dollar of snap benefits generates $1.84 in the economy. if people are able to buy a little more in the grocery store, someone has to stock it, shelve it, process it, sack it, ship it. all of those are jobs. the most direct stimulus you can get in the economy during these tough times. the reason the numbers have gone up is we've done a number of jobs in the states in getting word out about this program. states like florida, california, texas we're working with them to make sure they're getting the benefits. >> governor, pat buchanan here. i go back to the mid 1960s when the lbj began the program, '64,

'65, the food stamp programs. no americans on food stamps in the '60s and '30s. now at cost of $76 billion last count. is this one of the problems in terms of the exploding budget deficit as well? >> pat, it's a small percentage of the budget. it's who the people are who are receiving snap benefits. these are folks who are not necessarily on cash welfare. i think everybody thinks that everyone who receives food stamps a cash welfare recipient. only 10% of recipients are cash welfare beneficiaries. retired people who have paid their dues who are trying to live on a tough fixed income. it's working four -- folks working, playing by the rules that need to stretch the dollar a little bit. so it's important to recognize that it's not just about jobs, it's about the quality of jobs we create in this economy, so

that's why it's important to help small businesses in the way that the sba announced yesterday, why it's important for us at usda to work hard to make sure that folks in rural america know where the jobs are that are available. that's why we're working with the department of labor and a unique partnership to get the field offices at usg arkusda toe department of labor about jobs. we're going to look for ways to continue to spur manufacturing. if we can become a country that builds, creates, innovates, we can export to the rest of the world and we can create wealth. it's an untold story, pat. we're seeing record exports, a $42 billion surplus of agriculture. folks may have debt, but we've got soybeans. the last time i checked, they can't eat debentures but can soybeans. >> rick perry of texas is in the state of iowa right now. he was governor. you served as governor of iowa. what do you know about him? what do you think about him as a

presidential kacandidate? >> i don't know too much about rick perry. i didn't have much contact with him. he didn't involve himself much in the national governor's association. i was a member of the executive committee. so i didn't see him very often. oftentimes the governors from some of the larger states didn't get themselves involve in the associations. to me he set a blank slate right now. it will be interesting to see when he campaigns what his stances are. i will tell you this, he -- he talked about the department of transportation yesterday and, you know, you needed to make sure he got the facts right. what he said about the d.o.t. yesterday wasn't correct. >> all right, secretary tom vilsack, the new jobs initiative for rural america. thanks so much for being with us from iowa this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. all right, tomorrow we'll be joined here on "morning joe" by comedian harry schaerer. his documentary takes a look at hurricane katrina disaster in

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live picture taking you through the other day's news now. a top libyan security official has defected from muammar gadhafi's regime. it comes as rebel forces advance to the libyan leader's strong hold in tripoli, isolating the capital and cutting the supply route. the closest rebels have come to gadhafi in the more than six-month conflict including nightly nato air strikes. rebel leaders are holding talks

with the gadhafi government in tunisia. no official announcement has been made. the u.s. state department is watching the situation with, quote, considerable encouragement. royal dutch shell is now estimating that one of the oil platforms off of the coast of scotland has spilled more than 1300 barrels of oil in to the north sea. the spill is being called the uk's worst in a decade. the ruptured pipeline began leaking last week. shell says the spill is largely contained and is leaking two barrels or 84 gallons a day. by comparison, bp's spill in the gulf of mexico last year leaked 4.9 billion barrels of oil over 68,000 square miles. to the ground of the indiana state fair reopening after stag weekend as the five people who died in the tragedy are remembered. officials are now looking into how and why it happened. the rigging collapsed minutes before the country group sugarland was set to take the

stage. bad weather in the area already forced the cancellation of another concert. officials decided to evacuate the crowd but the storm hit sooner than expected and didn't have time to make an announcement. indiana governor mitch daniel spoke at a memorial for the victims calling the concertgoers who stayed behind to save others heroes. coming up, he says the real winner of the iowa straw poll is president obama. "washington post" eugene robinson joins us when "morning joe" comes back. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the jetta, awarded a top safety pick by the iihs. that's the power of german engineering. hurry in and lease the jetta s for just $179 a month.

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if you're just joining us, the big news this morning, president bill clinton, meetinging with rick perry. bill clinton in new york city talking to a group of firefighters where he -- took exception to some of perry's policy, but not with that handsome face. >> i got a ticket watched governor perry announce for president. right? he's good looking. he said, you know, i'm going to washington to make sure that the federal government stays as far away from you as possible. when i arrive on air force one and marine one helicopter and go to camp david, travel around the

world and have a good time. i mean, this is crazy. >> the headline, he's a good-looking rascal from president clinton. and nicolle wallace confirmed that. hey, he looks good in jeans. >> look goods in jeans. nascar, the race yesterday. did you see this? scary crash. at watkins glen. that's ugly. after the race, tempers flared between a couple of drivers in that wreck. trying to go after greg biffle in a push and shove and he's held back, keeping his helmet on in case actual fists fly. things were left unsettled. so said went to the media. to try to find a way to resume the brawl. >> boris didn't want a piece of greg. >> i'm just -- i'm more upset with greg biffle. he's the most unprofessional little scaredy-cat i've ever seen in my life. hi wasn't even fight me like a

man after. someone texts me his address i'll go show him what he really needs. he needs a freakin' whopping and i'm going to give it to him. flipping me off, totally unprofessional. two laps down. i mean, he's a chump. i went over to talk to him, he wouldn't even let me go out of the car, throws a few baby punches. when i get out, runs behind some big guys. he won't height forever. i'm going to find him. i won't settle on the track with the car, but -- >> won't settle on the track but he'll go to his house and beat the crap out of him. that was a "talladega nights" moment. no question about it. "morning joe" comes back in a moment. [ female announcer ] what if your natural beauty could be flawless too?

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now, warren buffett had an op-ed that he wrote today, where he said, we've got to stop coddling billionaires like me. [ applause ] that's what warren buffett said. he pointed out that he pays a lower tax rate than anybody in his office, including the secretary. now, i may be wrong, but i think you're a little less wealthy than warren buffett. that's just a guess. >> i've got my tax return if

want to take a look. i get taxed up to $100,000, and my super rich friends get taxed up to $100,000, and that tax hits the people in my office very, very hard. often they have a spouse working so they can tax them up to $200,000, that pay roll tax. what i propose, incidentally, would not touch the taxes of 99.7%. three-tenths. the people from a million on up should be asked to share in the sacrifice that we're all being asked to share in. good morning. it's 8:00 here on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, mike barnicle, mark halperin, wes moore and nicolle wallace. mark halperin, when congress comes back, if the president puts out some sort of a jobs plan, some sort of a proposal to repair the economy, will the buffett plan be included in that? or some form of it.

>> i think the president's going to have to go back to some of has wa in his original budget in the beginning of the year and some of the things he's laying out. certainly a balanced approach with the revenue. >> missed approach. >> one of the mysteries the president's fight with congress, why he can't win on the question of raising taxes on the wealthiest americans. it's popular in the polls, and it makes some economic sense to a lot of people, and yet he's not been able to force any pressure on republicans in congress, and i think it's going to be part of the plan and it's going to be interesting to see when he's actually selling something as opposed to promising something, whether he has anymore luck. finally, there's a reason the white house hasn't put out a big plan previously. if you get something out, particularly in the house, slammed dead on arrival. so they're changing course. they're going to put something else out but it bring as down side. >> nicolle, why do you suspect the president has put something out. mark said it is popular in the polls to tax.

warren buffett said, people making over $1 million and even higher, making over $10 million, why wouldn't he put that out there and dare republicans to vote against it? >> i think he actually believed running on tax increases was popular he would have done it instead of continuing the bush tax cuts last year when he stood in the rose garden and said, now is not the time to raise taxes on common. our economy is too fragile. i think he's also speaking a different language, as he always does, for republicans and increasingly independents in the country. there's a broad swath on the right led by -- by people like senator coburn who's on this show all the time, who are enthusiastic about tax reform. this might be the closest obama can get to raising revenues through tax increases by closing the loopholes and then low, the rates, the corporate rates and the individual rates. i think that might be the fertile ground for a compromise for republican. s on the revenue side. >> part of it might be, the lead

editorial in the "times" today is about the, the gas tax, federal gas tax. the hike in the federal gas tax, which is about to expire at the end of september. if you read the editorial and recall what happened in the last three months, the debate in congress, about the debt ceiling, i could be in for another harang about the federal gas tax. might be that the president has to be very gingerly approaching any talk of taxes. >> and i think also there's two different dynamics even in this tax conversation right now. one is the language about, who do we define as wealthy, has started to change as well. the idea of $ 50,000 and taxing those people has completely been wiped off the table. now you're talking about $1 million and $10 million. the other reason i think this conversation might be different this time is because, you're absolutely right, nicolle, you're not going to create a large platform based on, i'm going to raise taxes, therefore, you should vote for me. >> vote for me.

>> at the same time, the idea of spending cuts has been a larger -- the president knows if we're making strategic spending cuts, look at dispersing reve e revenue. we have to add in, in terms of pardee, add tax increase, revenue increase as well to counter that or his base, he would completely lose his base on that as well. >> hang on his base and pick up the middle if he starts, i think, adapting the language to what people on the right and in the middle of for. they're for making things like the entitlements more expensive for the wealthy. republicans are for making health care more expensive, if you have the means. now, you know, means testing has become a bad word in washington, but there's some openness on the right to making federal entitlements for expensive. whether obama demand and insists we call them tax increases or categorize them as tax increase, that's up to the white house, but there is -- there are some in congress who are receptive to finding revenues in other

places. they just haven't been on the same page or even used the same words as the white house. >> we were talking yesterday about, for lack of a better phrase, the buffett set. you know, people like warren buffett, whom all of us know. we all know some very wealthy people. the number of wealthy people who are in business, who actually have solutions to the financial mess we're in and willing to participate in such solutions as you know, raise my taxes. i'm a wealthy person. here's what to do about entitlements, the math is beyond me, but there are people out there that know how to do it. unfortunately for us, none of them are in congress. >> well, they should run. >> they're too smart for that. listen to what the president said out on the trail. republican candidates ramping up their campaigns across the country. president obama also breaking out his tour bus cruising the midwest talking yesterday to voters in minnesota, and in iowa. the obama administration insists this is not a campaign trip.

the president is spending three days on a bus tour that includes town hall, speeches and the like. during a speech in iowa late yesterday the president focusing on the economy saying the fiscal problems we face today, political system, result of a political system that's broken. he says he'll address that when congress returns from its recess. >> moving forward, my basic attitude is, we know what to do. i'll be putting forward, when they come back in september a very specific plan to boost the economy, to create jobs. >> president obama also took the opportunity to go after his 2012 challengers for not wanting what he calls a balanced approach to deficit reduction, mentioning a moment from the republican presidential debate last thursday. >> they were asked, would you take a deal in which for every $1 of tax increases we cut $10

in government spending. 10-1 ratio, and nobody was willing to take that deal. now, what that tells me is okay, you've gotten to the point where you're just thinking politics. you're not thinking about common sense. you've got to be willing to compromise in order to move the country forward. >> texas governor rick perry, meanwhile, spent the day campaigning in iowa as well. his competition for massachusetts governor mitt romney was asked about perry's candidacy and about whether or not governor perry can take credit for those jobs created in texas. >> -- spans not just four years as governor but also the 25 years that i've lived in the private sector. i think understanding how the economy works by having worked in the real economy is finely essential in the white house. i respect the other people in this race but i think the only other person with that experience besides me in the race is herman cain, and i

respect herman cain, but i also think it's helpful to have had that government experience that i've had. >> romney will be campaigning in new hampshire today. governor perry in iowa yesterday, meanwhile, responded to what he just heard from romney. >> romney took a swipe at you today saying he had private sector experience and that makes him better qualified to create jobs. >> give him my love. >> what do you think about that, though, sir, that he has private sector-doctor. >> i think oranges and apples. running a state is different from running a business. has i would say is, go take a look at his record when he was governor, and look at my record had i'm governor, and then you've got some apples to apples. >> mark halperin, so it's on. as of yesterday, they're going head to head, calling each other out by name. >> rick perry's first full day out, walking around the fair and at events, he's engaged the president obama intensely and

romney. getting in late, got a lot of ground to make up and trying to have the campaign on fast-forward. he's creating a lot of stir and lots of focus, and he said some things yesterday that the left in particular is going crazy on, and it's going to be interesting to see how he reacts to that today. does he try to clean any of it up or embrace it? rick perry typically does not back off on too many thing, but he created an image for himseed combative and even those on the right have taken issue with. >> what's the relationship with rick perry and what does he do to this race? >> i think there's a little bit more that gets into descriptions of the two men not being that close. i don't understand that to be the case. the two organizations were probably similar enough to, you know, not really work together too closely once the bush organization went to washington, but i have to say, rick perry is like that tall, ice cold glass

of water that we were crawling through the sand, ready to reach for. republicans are thrilled to see him in the race. republicans who may not have been the kind of voters that would respond to his popularity with evangelicals are thrilled to see him answering all the questions. the only problem tim pawlenty had, you wanted to shake him and just say, you're in third place. just answer the questions. rick perry has something to say. rick perry has a record to run on, and, you know, rick perry has been a refreshing and exciting and invigorating force in the race in just the couple days he's been in t. you find it refreshing and invigorating when he asks, just go asked president? >> a lot of people think his willingness to confront president obama on his relationship or his feelings about america appropriate, and a lot of people find his, that announcement speech he downgraded america, he downgraded -- a lot of people

that speaks to people's core dislike of the obama presidency so far. so i think people are responding to perry on all levels. >> we've got a sound bite. talking about a comparison between perry and george bush. perry addressed that yesterday. >> you know, i'm not going to sit here and -- george bush is not my opponent. i mean, he's a former president and we give him all the respect for that. we're talking about -- >> wes moore, how does that grab you when rick perry or anyone else running for public office, when they're asked, you know, what do you think of the president of america, and you say, well, go ask him? >> well, i think it demonstrates the love of this nation shouldn't be questionable at this point, and this is a person who could have done anything and

decided to devote his life to public service. if we don't respect that or embrace that, we're saying a lot of things to people coming up, a lot of people who are idealistic and passionate about this country saying your talents are probably needed elsewhere unless you want to get involved in this silly game of politics where we'll question your citizenship or your patriotism. i heard rick perry twice now say part of the reason he wants to run for president is because he wants to get the military -- his words, i want the military to be able to look up to the commander in chief again, which i found -- >> be proud of the commander -- >> the commander in chief, which i found not only insulting, for a member of the, former member of the armed forces, also just quite mysterious and comical. when you sign up and take an oath to this country, you take an oath to the constitution of the united states and a pledge to the president and commander in cleef. top see we now need someone to step in so we can respect our

uniform again, i just find absolutely comical and, again, really beneath someone who's running for president of the united states. >> these comments may be, nicolle suggesting, rallying people and someone that will take on the president. the totality of what he said, even some on the right are unpresidential. what he said about the fed, the thing wes just talked about, again, we'll see if rick perry stands by all of those things when asked about them subsequently. sometimes people say things in the heat of the campaign trail they regret and take back, for some people. i think questioning whether the president loves america is unam big gooo unambiguously too far for a lot of people. >> i'm not in the suggestion business, but i went and googled a speech that franklin delano roosevelt gave in october of 1936. here in new york in madison

square garden. about the hatred directed toward him and his presidency, and president obama and his people might be inclined to take a listen to that same speech, from october of 1936, where fdr went through a list of things that his administration had done from 1932 to '36 to help get this country out of the depression, and he ended the speech by saying, republicans, not all of them, some republicans, hate me, and hate has this administration is attempting to do, and he paused for effect, and ended his speech by saying, and i welcome their hatred, and it's a pretty powerful prescription for defining a difference between two parties. now, we're in a juncture in this country where there are huge divisions in america. we all know it. we all hear it. when you're out on the campaign trail, you can sense it, and i don't know that that kind of language would work today, but just the idea that you have

people running for president insinuating that this president, the incumbent, our president, no matter how you voted, does not love this country as much as this other candidate is highly insulting. >> well, we've all now seen enough of the post-george bush presidency to see a little window into what the liberal and the hatred on the right was like for him. i mean, he and laura bush had both written extensively about has it was like to disparage the office of the presidency, and it's never appropriate. i would say that this was his first weekend as a candidate. i think everybody on the field, including barack obama, hillary clinton, the very elegant and polished secretary of state, all candidates, you know, step over their words. we'll see if this becomes something that he repeats, and a theme of his candidacy, but there is a sense on the right, and mitt romney talks about this all the time, that obama hasn't been the most effective or committed cheerleader for america exceptionalism.

i hate to throw that out there, because it means one thing on the right and another thing on the left, but this has been a debate that's gone on four three years. so i think that perry was inartful. i think it's never wise, ever, to make a generalization about what "the military," the entire military thinks of anyone. a commander in chief, god, the enemy. that's just -- you don't do that, because you have no way of knowing. i mean, you don't generalize anybody. that was obviously a mistake. if he speaks to clean it up, he'll say, well, i heard that some some people i know. candidates step in it first weekend out. we'll see if this becomes something a refrain that he repeats, and then it might be worth giving him a tougher time. this was his first weekend on the large and by and large he made a pretty big splash. >> does this speak to a problem a lot of people think he has? he can appeal to people easily, get the nomination and then struggle to move to the center in a general election? >> there's that issue what

voters can adhere to. more immediately, governor romney and those who watched governor perry said this guy won't be able to perform at a national level. get the scrutiny he got as a governor, and as a candidate before and wouldn't be able to keep from saying things that would cause controversy and alienate voters. he said at least three things that are in that category. it's not as if he didn't prepare. he knew what was coming. interesting to see if the romney people try to take advantage of any of the things he said yesterday and how the white house reacts. make he will walk some of it back, but it gives, puts more weight on the side of this scale that says, this guy may have started big in some ways but he's got challenges he may not be able to overcome. coming up next, "the washington post" eugene robinson who says the real winner of the iowa straw poll was president obama. also, the new yorkers john cassidy explains what politics is driving the president's economic policy in the wrong

direction. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. hey, bill. >> good tuesday morning, willie. glooming in much of new england this morning. right now the low clouds in some portions of airport. not bad. 45 minutes late, philadelphia. showers there, too. the only airport you really need to check in to. later boston and new york could have minor issues. here's a look at big picture on the radar. light green, areas of rain. towards new england. many cities remain dry throughout the morning commute and pop up showers and storms late today. not as much rain today add yesterday. we're heading in the right direction. tomorrow looks like a great day in new england. the rest of the country, we're going to have beautiful weather in the ohio valley today. the southeast looks good. texas, still way too hot. thunderstorms for areas especially missouri up through iowa. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. every day, all around the world,

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i am a pro-business governor. i don't make any apologies about it, and i will be a pro-business president. getting america back to work is the most important issue that faces this country. being able to pay off $14.5 trillion or $16 trillion worth of debt. that big, black cloud that hangs over america, that debt that is so monstrous, there's only one way you get rid of it that's practical, that makes sense, and that is to free up america. free up america entrepreneurs. give them the incentives to go

out and spend the dollars that they have and hire the people. that is the plan. it works. it worked in texas for a decade. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, staff writer for the "new yorker" john cassidy and with us in washington, pulitzer prize winning columnist, associate eder of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. a long resume we read for you every week. you've earned every one of them. >> i appreciate it every time you read. >> geno, start with you. your column is provocative. straw poll winner you say is -- barack obama. how do you figure? >> look, what happened in ames iowa, to the extent that it means anything, it means that the republican field gets pulled even further to the right. michele bachmann wins. ron paul, who thinks we ought to be walking around with a pocketful of gold finishes

second, and, you know, pawlenty is out. he was kind of, you know, he was actually kind of a fairly moderate guy, even though he was pretending not to be, and rick perry gets into the race. so there are going -- it's going to be kind of a race to the right, and i think to the extent that they they-they -- they go way leaves it open for president obama. >> talking about what rick perry's entrance into the race means. comments he's made just yesterday, telling a reporter to go ask the president whether or not he loves america. slipups, as some around the table have said? an inexperienced presidential candidate, or a deep-seeded belief that could be a problem? >> we'll find out. you know, it could have been a gaffe. maybe he'll walk it back. but maybe it's what he really believes and maybe he's going to press that point. is he going to continue to make kind of veiled threats against

the chairman of the federal reserve? he did that yesterday, and then, also, implied that the u.s. military is disloyal to the president. you know, that's a trifecta on your first day, not an auspicious start. >> in this week's "new yorker" you're writing what are the more obvious issues that comfort this country with the various presidential candidates discussing this and some people have difficulty with what comes out of washington. i mean, you hear most out of washington about the deficit, and yet if you walk down any street in this country, it's basically about people looking for jobs, and especially a huge swath of the republic say 48, 52 years of age, men and women who have lost a job, they know that job that they lost is never coming back, and that's the real issue to them. joblessness. >> yeah. if you go throughout in the country, jobs, jobs, jobs, that's what people want to talk about. the unemployment rate is still

9%. 9% more than two years. everybody in the country is looking around for a solution, but washington is basically turned its back on the subject. as far as i can see, neither side is there a big jobs proposal coming out pt republicans are basically focussing on the deficit and debts. president obama says he's focused and jobs but if you actually look at the proposals he's putting forward, trade deals, getting rid of some bureaucracy, they're very minor. you mentioned fdr earlier. nobody's coming out saying, look, here's a program to get america back to work. that, to me, seems strange. there seems to be a political opening for somebody to come in and produce some idea of how to get the country back to work, but neither side seems to be interested in it. it's a great paradox. >> what has prevented the president from doing that? as you said, he's nibbled around the edges, pay roll tax cuts, extending the debt ceiling.

>> he's bought into the narrative debt and deficits are the big problem. the 2010 election was seen in the white house, i think, as a referendum to some extent on government spending and stimulus programs, and they've accepted the message that the public doesn't like this, and they seem unwilling to sort of try and launch a counternarrative that actually the stimulus didn't work as well as some people expected, but it worked a lot better than if we hadn't had any and if there hadn't been any stimulus, there might be 12%, 13% unemployment now. it's difficult in washington to make the argument for a big jobs program. >> that hits to the question, what can the president do, big picturewise, stimulus became a dirty word over the last couple of years. has is he capable of doing politically with the republican party that has shown it's not going along with much of his plan? >> first thing i think you have to do is tell a hopeful story, positive story, about jobs. no one has constructed a narrative about jobs that has

connected with the american people. and the president, frankly, hasn't done it, and republicans, really, haven't done it. you know, let's free up the entrepreneurs, aligned from harry, connecting with a certain sector, but not broadly, not generally. people don't buy the best, the whole solution. so i've written several times and probably will right again that the candidate and the party that comes up with that message on jobs, that connects, that people understand, that they get, they really get, is going to do very well in 2012. >> it seems to me a pretty obvious way you could bring to the two sides here, you can be pro-business and pro-jobs by giving businesses subsidies for hiring more workers. other countries have done that, on a temporary basis, during recessions and it's worked quite well. you can give companies subsidies for job shares. they did that in germany. it worked quite well.

there are a number of ways to tackle this problem, just looking like another big government program. i mean, prnlly, i'd be in favor of some big government programs as well, big infrastructure projects. even if that's not possible, conversations in varying ways that are amenable to americans pro-business views, i think. >> see, the problem with coming up with a narrative, it would seem to me, it's tough coming up with a narrative on jobs when you have real unemployment, 13%, 14%. >> under employment, close to 20%. they don't even have a narrative. the problem. the white house is missing a narrative. they haven't failed to fill a vacuum, they failed to add jobs. their economic policies have thus far failed and their problem isn't just that republicans aren't receptive to massive federal spending to stimulate the economy, it's that the people that made up obama's winning coalition three years

ago are just as distrustful of massive government intervention as the republicans are. it's the one place where they, the independents in this country, are closely aligned with the republicans in even the tea party. they're uncomfortable by the spending in the stimulus. they're uncomfortable about the health care reform and distrustful that more government spending is the answer. >> i understand that. i think a lot of people understand that. except if the president was not on this bus tour in the midwest, he could have gone to selected sites in this country. the hoover dam, the tva, places like that. >> and appear on msnbc -- >> and could have said. >> he could have always smart not to, though, mike. >> could have said, these never would have happened under this republican congress. never would have happened. >> his stimulus in january of his first year in office sought to spend money on big government firms. one it didn't work to stimulate the economy, and, two, he got

the sinking of his poll numbers. it didn't work politically. >> the bush administration were the first to introduce the stimulus program. introduced one in 2008, remember, before the 2009. >> sure, t.a.r.p. right. >> that didn't work. >> no, no. actually a stimulus program in 2008. >> there were bailouts. look, bush put into motion the government spending that began this discomfort. that created -- you could argue that the tea party has created as much by the policies undertaken in the final years of the bush white house as by this president. >> but, i mean, you know, i don't blame obama for this, because the stimulus -- people say enormous stimulus. actually, there hasn't been a big stimulus. all its done, spending in government, collapsed the local government. overall spending state, local and federal together, there hasn't been any big stimulus program. it's pretty much a flat line. all washington has done, stepped in and offset a collapse at the local level. if he hadn't done that, unemployment might be 15%.

somehow, the president doesn't seem to make this arguments. i understand there's a public oh version to it, but he's the president. he's got the bully pulpit. mike talked about fdr, persuade people of things they didn't necessarily believe to begin with. obama seems incapable of that. >> john cassidy with the "new yorker." his piece, "how bad is it?" everybody ought to read it. thank you for being with us, eugene robinson, as well. see you soon. and coming up, yesterday's merger monday lifted stocks to their biggest three-day rally in more than two years. can wall street keep a, what's called a mini streak going? simon hobbs live at the stock exchange, next. confidence. available in color. depend for women is now peach. looks and fits like underwear. same great protection.

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welcome back to "morning joe." dark, gloomy day here in new york city. it's 8:37 in the morning here. wall street's three-day winning streak looks like it's in jeopardy. fears of the european economy come back again. a check on business before the bell with cnbc's simon hobbs live at the new york stock exchange. how's it look down there. >> good morning. yeah, a lower open clearly. a great bounce yesterday, of course, you probably saw. 1.9% on the dow jones industrial average, and a relatively stable

environment. we had that on friday as well. mainly an absence of bad headlines. volume yesterday was quite slight. less than half during the course of last week on the big moves. today, you rightfully mentioned we're getting headlines out of europe. 12:30 eastern this meeting with the german chancellor will break up. esleshlly the market is feeling we might have reached another dead end as regards, the way in which we can bail out, more specifically the way in had we can get bombed by, to support the markets for italy and spain, and we thought we might get a euro bomb a big boost to the emergency funds. that's what people would like to see. but it doesn't look like either the french or germanless go for that. we're back to this emergency filing activity for the buying bonds, which is only temporary. not sure how much the market

will fret about it. it's been telegraphed the last 24 hours but is a risk at this stage and maybe used as an excuse to sell off. we'll see what happened. >> pat buchanan is with us. >> they may be looking at the end of the euro zone. does it not? >> i spent 18 months resisting that in saying that, but i'm afraid now you're right. in polls over the weekend, 48% of the dutch suggested the ne netherlands should leave the european union. 44% of germans said they should withdraw from the euro zone. it make be chucking out greece, the dutch, belgians and germany deciding they're going to form their own unit. that really is back on the cards, at least from the opinion polls coming through there. >> wow. >> it's huge. if you're investing in the american market you really, really don't want that hassle at the moment. >> wow. that's -- earth shattering.

it is. >> i mean, if that whole thing comes apart -- >> on your cell phone now, just -- >> just put -- >> simon hobbs, thank you so much. a little alarming. >> america first here. huh? coming up, the pentagon versus the state department. a new book takes us through the decades of tension between or nation's diplomats and its lawyers. that's next. introducing the schwab mobile app. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done.

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that's a beautiful shot of washington this morning. joining us now from the nation's capital, author and journalist stephen glain out with a new book "state versus defense: the

battle to define america's empire." stephen welcome. good to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> you argue in the book, the pentagon a course state over the last 60 years as the center of u.s. foreign policy say the momentum of militarization that become unstoppable. how did we get here? >> that's correct. i would like to point out first, appropriate to make starting out one thing i found in the searching of this book is those who are doing the militarizing, have done the militarization are not military officers but civilians beginning with james forestall, secretary of the navy under truman, right on down to those who are with the bush administration in iraq. and that's a narrative. >> pat buchanan. >> stephen, the militarization, at the end of the cold war we had all of these troops left

abroad and this tremendous debt and deficit we've got going for us. mike and i were talking, 50,000 troops in germany. 28,000 in korea, maybe 50,000, japan. 100,000 afghanistan. 50,000 in iraq. isn't this deficit debt issue going to, if you will, bring down the american empire? >> pat, when i was in, based in asia as a foreign correspondent for the "wall street journal" i did cover nato. during the kosovo bombing. it became abundantly clear to me there's enormous disconnect between the nature of our military deployments overseas and the nature of the threat and this since the end of the cold war. i think you're absolutely right. we are not going to achieve any meanful deficit reduction until we have a critical look at those deployments with the idea of bringing about much needed savings. >> stephen, your contention, which i think a lot of people buy into, this buildup and

constant buildup began with jim forestall, continued through charlie wilson under eisenhower, certainly bob mcnamara under president kennedy. the civilian role in the buildup. isn't it now sort of the case that the pentagon has a vested economic/security military interest in maintaining bases as bizarre as a huge presence in okinawa and as pat indicated in germany? >> that's a good point, but i think the worm is starting to turn. a lot of people are talking about the hazards of maintaining these deployments overseas, as wes might point out. we have incredibly prepared and capable troops in asia, for example, but the units are cut off from their lift in the united states. so if they are -- if they have to, if a war goes up they're cut off from their lift. nome does it not make economic sense for them to be there, it doesn't make strategic or

logistical sense for them to be there and it's about time we asked our allies to assume a greater share of their security burdens. >> wes moore? >> i couldn't agree more. one thing, you not only see this financial burden shifting but also a strategic burden shifting as well. talk a little how you see traditional state department and traditional diplomatic roles having many ways been taken over by the military? you see the creation of civil affairs and psychological operations. traditionally we're not there. how has that changed also affected what we've seen in terms of this paradox? >> an excellent point, wes. what we've seen really just in the last ten years, in particular, is an intensification of the pentagon assuming what, as you know, are called stability operations, and this is defined very broadly. it can be anything from bigging kel -- digging wells in jabuti, and

it's has we're asking the state department to do. because we spend $12 million on defense for every $1 on diplomatic resources, it's increasingly marginalized and still the ones to do training. for the pentagon it's very new and also very expensive for a u.s. troop to be out in the hinterlands of africa or latin america or the middle east building schools. we can -- we can have this done by contracting with ngos much more cheaply and probably on a more sustainable basis. >> isn't one of the big dangers of the military cac units, military assistant units, we are establishing a client state through the military, building canals, irrigation systems, school, things like that? >> and creates an unhealthy dependency, i think, and, also, with the pentagon now having its own funding authority, not only are they building canals and

schools, et cetera, and hospitals, but they're also working with foreign militaries in all over the world for anti-counterinsurgency and anti-terrorist operations, and that creates a very strong bond, which in many ways is good, but the oversight is very laxed, and i know that in senate hearings over the last few years it's been revealed that we are in bed with pretty odious regimes, leveraging u.s. support to fight their own battles. >> stephen, quickly before we let you go, you write in the book about what you call an ineverybody itable confrontation with china. how do you see that coming about? >> quickly, although it's a big issue. the two sides are talking past one another. americans saying we welcome the rise of the peace in china, but we're not going to concede what we regard as our mission to patrol the sea lines all over the world, including in south china sea where there is a whole latticework of disputed claims.

the chinese are saying, well, you had your monroe doctrine and manifest destiny and we have 3,000 years of history as being the center of a sino asian bloc, and we only want to restore what we've had in the past. absent a good-faith attempt to reconcile these two positions through diplomacy, i fear that some kind of conflict between the two sides is likely. >> just not going to tolerate china as a regional pow sir what you argue in the book. >> yes, that's trect. >> called "state versus defense." fascinating read. stephen glain, thanks for being with us. the best of late night is next. [ female announcer ] now, give dry, damaged hair a whole new life! with aveeno nourish plus moisturize. active naturals wheat formulas target and help repair damage in just 3 washes. for softer, stronger... ... hair with life. [ female announcer ] nourish plus. only from aveeno.

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all right. time to tell you has we learned today. start down at the end with mr. wes moore. >> i learned today the month of july we lost 32 servicemen to suicide. one of the largest months so far in all the wars. >> a huge problem not talk about enough. >> that's right. pat?

>> rick perry's looking for mitt, give him my love, mike. >> blow him a kiss. >> nicolle wallace? >> that rob gibbs is in desperate need of new attack lines. >> how great was that? nicolle going at it. like the summer of '08. mark? >> two quick things, mike barnicle can pay his electric bill on his phone. >> a little late to the game but can you do it. boom. >> as we were learning the euro zone was failing apart, mike is -- paying his bills. >> the internet. >> what can we tell you? at least pretend that you care. i learned from nicolle wallace, her words, not mine, rick perry looks good in a pair of jeans. that's all i know. thanks everybody. see you back here tomorrow. stick around right now for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd live today in iowa. rick perry unplugged. the newest 2012 candidate