inventory at the cheesecake factory. if you have ever eaten there, it's hercules alone. one salad could feed an army. ♪ think, about what you're trying to do to me". >> i think that everybody who runs for president, it probably takes them a little bit of time before they start realizing, this isn't like running for governor, senator or congress. you have to be more careful about what you say. i'll cut him some slack. he's only been at it for a couple days now. >> good morning. it's wednesday, august 17th. with us on set in new york city, mark halperin, pat buchanan, nicolle wallace and the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton.

good morning, everybody. >> good morning. >> al sharpton, we'll start with you. we talked about it yesterday, not just the treason with the fed, but where he said i don't know if the president loves america, go ask him. are you troubled by the president's response yesterday? i saw some progressive's saying fight back. the president gave perry a pass yesterday. >> i think what he said is he gives him some slack. i don't know that a lot of people that are progressive, including me -- for him to say that he cannot confirm the president loves the country or to say the statements about b bernanke were above the line.

those you are connected to, you have to ask what they say. don't forget the republicans ran against this president on things his pastor said and things others said, not that he said. so, if perry is entering the game on this, look at what he's saying, not what his preacher said, or somebody he knew said, what he said. >> nicole, were you surprised? a lot of people thought he would say i didn't mean to say the fed chairman was treasonist. he didn't. he stuck to his guns. >> it's certainly palin style, reloading than a presidential style. on second thought, they think he shouldn't say that. i think, obviously president

obama should care more about what you think than me. i thought he handled it in a way karl rove allowed him to handle it. with the voices on the right kicking perry in the teeth saying thing that is are unbecoming to someone seeking to be the next president. i think the president handled it nicely. it was disappointing to people that matter to him most. >> in fairness, jay carney was tougher on rick perry than the president was. let's listen to what he said about rick perry. >> don't accuse the chairman of the federal reserve of being guilty of treason and suggest we treat him ugly in texas. it's not a presidential statement. governor perry is going to have to fight he's a cowboy from texas. accusing somebody to be a

treas treasoner of his country. >> the bush people have a clear view of this. the texas thing did not always work well for george bush. he had to talk about his accomplishmen accomplishments. the image of texas rubbed americans the wrong way. being a texan is a negative and perry's style does less to diffuse that. perry's style will xexasperate that. rick perry should learn by studying what they did. >> don't get me started. >> perry had a great first 48 hours. then he has this bad day in iowa. i think that, you know, he didn't back off. now, he's going to have to see. did he make more mistakes?

in politics in general, if the opposition isn't making an issue, it dies out. romney is not making an issue of this. the president took a pass. perry has a chance now. if he makes more, people are going to be on guard. >> pat buchanan, the voice of reason in '92 and '96. >> perry is going through iowa like an unbroken stallion in danger of cracking a leg. i agree with nicole. you don't want to engage rick perry and bring him up to your level. it's a gracious thing for the president to do. the guy got in there, cut him some slack. it's a smart thing to do. let the republicans, you have karl rove and all the republicans ripping up perry. it's far more credible to have the republicans ripping up perry than the reverend sharpton who we would expect to rip him up.

>> reverend sharpton, nicole said rick perry's entrance into the race was a cool relief for the republicans walking through the desert. what do you think he says about the republican party, the level of excitement he's generated? what does it say? >> the problem is the republicans slip on the ice in that cool glass of water. is the perry statement we are talking about a strategy or him coming in shooting from the hip cowboy style? we'll see. some of us think it could be a strategy. others think he's just having learner's mistakes. we'll see. i think that it is too generous to say a man who's been a governor as long as he has and understands the political stage is continuely making all these

mistakes in 48 hours. there's too many. this is not a guy without losses or ever been on the stage. this is a guy that's been the governor of texas for awhile. he know what is he's doing. >> it's conversation in texas. you say these things in texas, it's not a big deal to say it about your opponent. do it on a national, presidential level, it's texas trash talk. >> calling the head of the fed guilty of treason is not talking about your opponent and is not just regular talk in texas. >> let me ask you, what do you think when he says it could get ugly in texas when he shows up. does anything think he's talking of assaulting the fed of reserve? >> we're talking about what he said. whatever he said, he opened the door to any kind of interpretation. you guys, not george bush, you guys on the right made all kind

of hate off president obama's pastor, not over president obama. just because the president gives him some slack -- everybody on fox news and a lot of republicans did and do not begrudge us saying let's have a standard here. we are talking what perry said. >> when you are sitting in a church for 20 years and the pastor is saying god damn america, it's different. >> mr. obama didn't say it. mr. perry sat in elected office for 20 years and said the head of affairs was guilty of treason. you are going to accuse the president of, if he might have been in a pew, what somebody said out of his own mouth. it's a double standard. >> when you say that from the pulpit again and again -- >> did mr. obama say that?

did mr. obama say that? you don't know if he was there. >> let's relitigate it. the president is wrapping up the three-day bus tour in the midwest, stopping in illinois for a couple town hall meetings in the economy before he heads off tomorrow. the president appeared before a group of farmers in iowa yesterday with a focus on jobs and urging congress to boost the economy by passing extension of the payroll tax cuts and a construction bill. throughout his remarks, he continued to blame congress saying lawmakers are standing in the way of economic growth. >> you do your part. you meet your obligations. well, it's time washington acted as responsibly as you do every single day. we have a lot of work to do. the only way to get it done is if democrats and republicans put country ahead of parties and the

next generation in charge of the next election. >> what do you think? go after congress, to talk about washington as a place that he's not part of. what is the strategy here? >> a place holder. allows him to go on vacation without democrats to be unhappy and not say he's not done enough about jobs. we are going to have an intense september, october, november. the white house has the view that the public is more on their side than the result of the debt ceiling fight demonstrated. the president is trying to tee up for people and say i'm against what's going on in washington. politics is broken, help me fix it. he's trying to lay that down. it's a place holder until he has plan he puts forward and fights for it, we are not going to see the contours. >> nicole is that effective?

>> it's classic obama. he needs an enmy. we talked to robert gibbs yesterday, they are still fighting the ghosts of gorge w. bush. they plan to blame all the country's problems on somebody else. they have not entered the responsibility era. whether it's a place holder or strongman, this is what they do. this has worked for them thus far. the american people would respect him more for saying, you know, we were distracted. maybe health care wasn't the right thing to focus on. i think that what happens when your approval numbers slip to the low 40s is people, you have lost credibility with the people who no longer approve of your performance as president. i remember when george w. bush slipped into unhealthy numbers

for him. he admitted all the mistakes on the diplomatic front and the mistakes on the military execution and the rebuilding of the country. it didn't win back people like you, but it did win back people in the middle who were once supportive. i think a strategy where obama tries to recapture the attention and credibility for the people who once believed in him is more credible than seeking a strongman. >> he's making a mistake. folks like chris matthews, turn to exasperation. where is the plan and the program? they have been talking for days. then the president is going march off to, which i think is a terrible mistake, off to martha's vineyard. he's not there. he's on a bicycle when everybody -- >> he doesn't win -- >> i don't like it -- let me

argue with her. i think the point is the president is not creating a strongman. i think the public said in the same poll, congress has been far more disappointing. i think the president had come out with the grand bargain that was blocked. i think the president passing health care and other things created his record. now, has some people said they wish we would see more? i think you can't act as though the president had the where with all to move forward as george bush did. george bush's mistakes were not blocked. i don't think you have the same thing. i don't think my friend pat who had no problem with mr. bush in the middle of two wars he created. i think his opinion of the president's vacation will give you some slack. >> let me correct you here, i

oppose george bush's war in iraq. that's right. >> you didn't oppose his vacation? >> oh, no. i think nicole and i agree that president's should have a vacation. the president of the united states is down 39%. he's not losing like pat buchanan. he's losing people in his base who is exasperated and some of whom are saying maybe the hope and change thing isn't working out the way we wanted. i don't think riding around in the bus out there, repeating the same message with no program is helping. >> wasn't ronald reagan down? >> he was down, yeah. >> didn't he come back? >> yeah, but the economy by now is moving -- >> wouldn't it make sense for him to come back with a jobs plan and fight it through? >> i think he ought to come back with a tax plan and a deficit and jobs plan. >> i think he should come back with a tax plan. he should say we need to stop

bush's tax cuts. >> okay. >> one of the president's strengths is he's patient. he doesn't get caught up in the day-to-day. he wants his vacation. he likes the tradition of martha's vineyard in the summer and hawaii in the winter. he thinks he's going to win the fight. if he wins the fight, it makes re-election more likely. >> it's an annual pass. put the president's vacation to rest. you don't like the bicycle? >> as we were talking yesterday, go to a regular place. >> he's going to wear a beret on the bike. >> we're strong enough to get past his vacation to martha's vineyard. coming up, chuck todd,

editor in large chris haste, david faber and actor and director harry shearer will be here. a live report from london on the economic anxiety. we'll get the overseas market reaction, next. first, bill karins with a look at the forecast. >> good morning, willie. a beautiful summer day in the areas that suffered. new england through the mid-atlantic. the heavy storms brought up the rain. it kicked through. yesterday, it moved up the cost, now it's up in canada. we are done with that. temperatures are comfortable. a beautiful summer day. low humidity but warm. temperatures in the mid-80s. a chance of going into the upper 80s. the southeast is mostly dry. florida deals with thunderstorms from orlando to tampa and miami. another day in the 100s. this is ridiculous. you are watching "morning joe."

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recently, texas governor rick perry distanced himself from george bush saying i went to texas a&m, he went to yale. that's what he said. he's been feeling confident to say don't worry, i'm not as smart as george bush. >> welcome back to "morning joe." global markets after a meeting with nicolas sarkozy did little to soothe investor concerns about the economy. we are live in london with a look at overseas markets. what is the merkle-sarkozy plan?

>> what we were looking forward to is maybe, potentially they would drop a line about creating a euro bond. they didn't do that. we were hoping for it. because we didn't get what we were hoping for, it's where the disappointment is. they were talking of broadening out the european aid. they didn't do that. they said it was not in the cards. they said they were proposing slapping a tax on financial transactions. the market is reacting to that. we are lower across the board. we show the main equity. you can see a lot of red there. germany down by almost 1.5%. you can see in the sectors we are seeing a lot of selling especially in the financial services down here by 2.5%. technology, also, we had weaker numbers from dell overnight. banks lower by 1.5%.

a lot of it is speeding through the main forces. you'll see deutsche in germany off by 7%. overall, we are in a mess in europe. we need to sort things out and figure out how to get out of it. >> sounds like the french and the german's want to tighten up creating budget, tax policies, things like that. is there an appetite in europe for that? do they want that? yesterday, we were hearing number that is suggested almost half the people wanted out of the eu all together? >> yeah. they have made proposals with regards to regulation and bodies they want to make. they are stating they would like to see the presidency with a turnover of 2.5 years. the question is whether or not it makes a difference with regard to what the european

people want. measures across the board being implemented. it's going to be a tough couple years ahead. >> all right. live in london this morning. thanks so much. down to washington where mr. mike allen has a look at the playbook. hello, mike. >> good morning, mr. willie. >> good to see you. let's talk about rick perry. the campaign is gaining traction and getting lot of attention. the romney campaign is not that concerned about it, why? >> at least publicly, they are staying the course. mitt romney is doing what front-runners do, continue to focus on the general election. he's going to keep beating up obama. team obama started to feel better in iowa. they think perry is potentially a formidable candidate, they love the idea of republicans going after each other. the week before, the republicans were going after obama. mitt romney says he's going to

stick to his message of jobs, economy, going after obama and talking act his private sector experience which sets him apart from both perry and obama. >> mark halperin, is that a good strategy to look past the republican field, even if it includes rick perry and president obama? >> it's a good strategy now and one he can maintain. he's going to do it in new hampshire. the two things out there that force him into a different direction is the decision to compete in iowa. the second is when there are negative ads that go after romney, you can't ignore that. did he respond on television? >> mike, what is the thinking now on the romney campaign? do they feel they need to engage in iowa where all the action is with bachmann and perry playing? does he need to get back in? >> it's a big debate because

it's a big risk. front-runners, in general, can't skip states. there could be a lot of pressure if perry continued to do well. going into the weekend and the week, he was very strong. it's going to be harder for romney to overt his gaze from iowa. >> pat, what do you think? >> wait and see if michele bachmann if she starts going after perry and takes on that assignment herself and keeps him out of the battle. i agree with mark, this is a temporary thing, you have to wait and be flexible and see which way this is going. >> don't you think michele bachmann has to go after perry? >> if perry does well in iowa, she has to. >> could she go after obama? >> you act like she's in the

same room. >> say you were a consultant saying we have to stop perry in iowa, what would she say? >> she says what he feels. she creates it as she goes. if she feels she has to target him. if you are asking me to ask her to make sense, you are doing something no one has done. >> we'll leave it there. mike allen, thank you so much. a cover up in the phone hacking scandal that rocked rupert murdock's umpire. michele bachmann mixes up her milestones. >> before we get started, let's say happy birthday to elvis presley today. happy birthday! >> that's ahead in news you can't use. rev al sharpton has a take on that. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] looking for a complete picture of your money?

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." a live picture looking at the upper west side.

a place where pat buchanan never won a single vote in his life. >> you still never won a vote. >> they regret it deeply. >> they do. let's do some news. the guardian newspaper reports an explosive letter in the cover up of the phone hacking scandal. in the letter written four years ago, a disgraced reporter in the shuttered news of the world tells andy coleson hacking was widely discussed at the editorial meetings. coleson told him his job would be safe if he agreed to keep quiet in court. he was arrested in the hacking scandal. he was hired as a media adviser

after his stint at news of the world. they foiled a plan to attack the sight of the 2012 olympic games in london during this month's riot. they were able to make an arrest by intercepting messenger exchanges used by rioters to organize gatherings. >> let's turn to sports now. we turn to baseball. the yankees looking to take first place. game tied at five in the fourth inning. three-run home run. that's the 21st home run. the rookie got knocked around and got the win. he's 12-4. the yankees win, 9-7. red sox gain. fourth inning, runners on first and second, how about a triple play? lowry steps on third, then the turn to second, gonzalez with a

stretch at first, a triple play. b.j. upton gets caught in a rundown, makes it break for home. the red sox cannot get him. he is safe. rays win, 6-2 and flip the doubleheader. the yankees stand alone a half game up on the red sox in first place. braves pitcher had a no-hitter going against the giants last night. he made one mistake. 3-1 pitch. no-hitter, shut out, lead all gone with one swing. bottom of the ninth, martin prado crushes one to left. perhaps driving the game winner? no, a catch by aubrey off. a base hit the other way. the winning run comes from third. back-to-back nights of wins for atlanta. the two-run victory for the

giants. the d'backs in the eighth inning, roy holladay, his 12th strikeout of the day. he takes the lead into the ninth. runners on first and second, two-run double with a gap off holliday. diamondbacks rally. holliday strikes out 14 and loses. not necessarily known for his composure all the time on the court. he showed it monday at the cincinnati masters. he double falsed on a serve and responds by launching the ball in the stands. they dock him a point for the outburst. he loses the set and the match. in the press conference, he had an interesting case on the incident. >> certainly suffer for what i did and put him in a bad

situation out there. i do think it's stupid. in football, if you throw a helmet on the sideline, it's their helmet. we wonder why we lose ratings out of wwf, monday night raw. at a certain point, you hit a tennis ball and someone goes home with a souvenir, it's over. >> spice it up. good for him. >> more like world wrestling. >> great message. >> we're moving forward. >> we're not england. >> lean forward. lean forward. >> you are good, reverend. coming up next, the must read opinion page including one that calls rick perry a 21st century candidate. we're getting breaking news across the wire, the president, in september, will make a major speech on jobs. we'll tell you what he's going to say when we come back. every day, all around the world,

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the prime driver of economic growth in jobs is going to be our people and the private sector in our businesses. you know what? government can help. government can make a difference. i hope that i can count on you in the days ahead to lend your voice to this fight to strengthen our economy. i need you to keep your pressure on your elected representatives for things like the payroll tax cuts or road construction funds or the other steps that will help put our country back to work. >> president talking yesterday in iowa about the economy. we are getting news he is going to talk more about that issue when he gets back from vacation.

mark halperin, fill in the blanks here. a policy speech from the president after the labor day weekend. >> correspondents reporting the president is coming out with a speech that has the balance he wants, not just the revenue increase along with spending cuts but a balance between short term stimulus and long term deficit reduction. it's what the president thinks would be the right thing to do and the best thing for him politically, if he can stimulate the economy in the short term and have people see he's serious about debt reduction. it's going to be a big package. sub ststantial changes in the t code. the discussion with john boehner, going to make another try at that. it's another model, laying out a marker and specifics which republicans have been calling on from him saying here is my plan,

show me yours. the danger is the debt on arrival by the house republicans. it's difficult to jump start the process. he's presenting it as the super committee is going to meet where they come up with their own package. it will have a lot of similarities with the president. >> reverend sharpton, he's going to propose something big. how much can he get through the house of representatives? >> i think that's true, but the problem the house of representatives will have is if he really goes in and if this is true and it probably is and he goes out and campaigns on this. do they become the bad guys in the election cycle that is blocking jobs and blocking a short term stimulus. a lot is going to be what is in the package and how realistic it is and how to try to shoot it down, which i'm sure they will. knowing the president delivered,

he will probably have a very serious package. i agree with mark, i think it will be a combination of something good politically but something he believes in. the other part you can't discount is there could be things in it progressives won't like. we have to wait and see. some of the deficit reduction things, there may be things that even those of us in his base are uncomfortable with. i don't know how and what we are talking about here yet. i'm glad to see that's what he's talking about. >> in addition to the jobs measure, a related front, obama will present the plan to cut the long-term national debt. that could be the problems you are seeing with progressives there. >> it's a democratic program and long term cuts that never usually come and republicans will be concerned about that. i think the initial thing will be regarded as and stated as by

republicans, this is a giant stimulus package to increase the deficit, increase the debt unless there's something in there republicans like, i think they are setting, the president from his standpoint, it's the right and necessary thing to do. i think we are going to be in a real battle in the fall over this thing unless you see something in there the republicans really like in terms of a stimulus where the republicans will accept an increased deficit for 2012. >> they are not just interested in stopping the president from achievement. one is tax cuts for the middle class and he's got to win this fight, which he makes every day on infrastructure spending. do republicans think the nation's airports, roads, bridges need rebuilding or don't they and does the federal government play a role there? he's got to win that fight. again, he thinks it's necessary. politically, to turn the economy

around, you have to have more spending on infrastructure. >> announcing a speech while you are rolling around on a campaign bus in iowa, crossing rick perry on the freeway, i think are terrible. it clearly puts this current trip in a category of something other than a serious proposal to fix the economy. it's pretty unprecedented to, four weeks out, a major policy issue on an issue that has everyone in this country and around the world as you have been talking for two days at a four on the anxiety scale. i think it's -- i hope you are right. >> i tell you what he's doing, he's responding to what we are saying around here. people are saying the same things. where is the program? where is the plan? the people are probably saying tough tell them something specific is coming.

>> right. i think in the 6:00 a.m. hour about a speech coming four weeks in the future reeks of desperation. >> it's like the bus tour. >> where is he headed for vacation, i forgot? >> not again. let it go, pat. >> the last thing about the bus tour, don't forget he's coming to the king monument celebration. you don't know what he's going to say there. clearly, he could talk about dr. king's battle. don't act like he's just on vacation. let's not forget he is not smart enough to be smarter than the republicans present company. >> pat wants to act like he's just on vacation. it's more fun that way. let's get to sneak in a must read op-ed here. texas' man talking about rick

perry. what he ignores or doesn't know is how greatly texas benefited from the taxes from the federal government he despises. minimum wage is to diminish the disparity to the north and poverty of the south. he wants to unravel the social contract and have us go state by state. it's dragged down wages and living standards adrosz united states. he is the 21st century home grown version of the candidate. who wants to take that one? >> there was a great piece about how the left responds to rick perry. it's unbelievable. they get fired up. they go after him on everything he says and does. one reason he's a better

opponent is coming out. perry takes care of that. there are things to criticize about perry. liberals criticize him with an incredible passion and anger that george bush inspired and perry does, too. >> it helps him in the republican primary. there's nothing that lays a finger on him in the eyes of republican primary voters. so, this animosity and this belief that the size, the cost and the roll of the federal government is out of whack, you know, transcends things as a governor he may have accepted. >> reverend sharpton? >> i think she's right, the primary's don't hurt him. he would energize the democratic base and a lot of independents like no other candidate. he openly supported, at one

point, succeeding from the union, preaching state's rights. it not only bothers those in civil rights but immigration rights and gay rights should not be decide id state-by-state. you couldn't have had a better candidate to energize the base than rick perry. i hope he does win the primaries and i hope he is there as the candidate. >> how would he be for liberal radio talk show host? >> we would need to keep our throats well oiled so we don't get laryngitis. >> i think he's not going to damage rick perry that much. he's got a terrific summery. it's the megastates. texas versus california, which is a disaster area, the lowest bomb rating in the nation, unemployment around 12%.

perry contrasts what we are doing here with what they are doing in california. i think it's a great contrast. he's got to move out of there into pennsylvania, michigan and places like that. >> doing what they are doing in texas. >> do you think, to that point, there's been a lot of articles suggesting there's no texas miracle, it's all smoke in mirrors. do you think he deserves credit for the amount of jobs created? >> as much as the wizard of oz. when we pull back the curtain, he's not the wizard at all. >> he had nothing to do with it? still ahead, chuck todd live from iowa. chris hayes is going to join the conversation. news you can't use. michele bachmann's tribute to elvis. we'll be right back.

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>> it is time for a little news you can't use. we start with michele bachmann's birthday shout-out to the king of rock 'n' roll. it would have been good if it was the birthday of elvis presley. yesterday was his death day. >> let's all say happy birthday to elvis presley today.

happy birthday! we played you a little bit of promiseland when we pulled up. you can't do better than elvis presley. we thought we would celebrate his birthday. take our country back tour. >> it wasn't his birthday. he died 34 years earlier. so, that was during one stop in south carolina. three hours later, during another campaign stop, she corrected the record. >> we are going to start dancing here, aren't we. you can't do better than promise land. today is the day we observe the passing of elvis presley, did you know that? did you like that? maybe we'll turn it on at the end and do some shagging up here, if you want to shag a bit, that's what we'll do. >> shagging. no one has shagged since the

early '40s. >> yeah. maybe she's referring to "austin powers." >> i hope not. >> on the 6:00 show, i said miss bachmann was wrong. i was reprimanded by someone on my twitter account saying how dare you say elvis is dead. >> that's the real controversy that anyone suggests elvis is not alive. >> we all know he's living in argentina. he's got a timeshare. >> maybe he's in texas where you want to send other people on vacation. >> he's somewhere with peanut butter and banana sandwiches. >> if you watch "jersey shore."

the situation is getting an endorsement of sorts. he's got legitimate ones. now, a major clothing company offered him big money not to wear their clothes. please don't wear our clothing anymore. this came from abcom by and fitch. they said we are deeply concerned with his association with our brand that it could cause damage to our image. we understand the show is for interat a timement purposes, but this is contrary to the nature of our brand and may be distressing to many of our fans. we have offered a substantial payment to michael "the situation" and producers of "jersey shore" to have him wear an alternate brand. how bad do you have to be for people to pay you to stop

wearing their clothes? chris hayes is going to join us when we come back. ♪ [ mrs. davis ] i want to find a way to break through. to make science as exciting as a video game. i need to reach peter, who's falling behind. and push janet who's 6 chapters ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] with interactive learning solutions from dell, mrs. davis can make education a little more personal. so every student feels like her only student. dell. the power to do more.

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i'm going make my best case for where we need to go. we have made progress since the start of the recession in 2008. it hasn't been fast enough. we have to accelerate it. two things need to happen.

we need to make sure people have confidence and we are living within our needs, eliminating programs that don't work. two, there's things we can do around infa structure that would change how people do hiring now. >> back with us, mark halperin, reverend al sharpton, msnbcs upcoming morning show host, chris hayes. what time are you going to get up? >> i'm going to take the mika approach, come in four or five hours ahead of time. >> that's great. the show starts in september? >> mid september is what we are looking at. >> we are looking forward to it. >> after the ripping on the

bachmann elvis thing -- >> let's talk about the news we got over the wire that is the president, chris, is going to make a major speech on jobs after he gets back from labor day vacation. people have been calling for him to do something big on this for a long time. it looks like he's going to do it. what do you think he says? >> well, the problem is he has a fairly complicated case to make. mark was talking about this earlier, matching short-term stimulus with long-term deficit reduction. the picture has been wildly distorted. what we need in the short term are larger deficits than we have. massive deficits to boost the level of demand that we want to see. people think about the government wasting money. what they don't think about is the waste of human capital with the people able-bodied and able

to work. i think the president has to recast in terms of that. the problem he faces is the stimulus, the recovery act that has been successful. it's a political failure. the question of how he goes about making an argument for more demand stimulus when people have been so, sort of wearied by the recovery act. >> what do you think he can do to excite progressives and win back some of the, i think he's lost 69% of the independents. what are the three things that could thrill progressives and win back the independents? >> the answer is, have the economy grow at 4%. the question is, in some ways -- >> without the results. >> it's the end, not the means. if he can come out and basically

advocate the industry, people would go nuts. unemployment at 4%, people would be forgiving. the rhetoric matters in the short term. my feeling is, it actually will -- exciting independents and progressives is a result of the economy. >> you think it's the time? >> what can you get through congress? that's what he faces. >> i think the way he gets it through congress or makes congress the bad guy is by having the case and going strongly to the public. i think one of the things he has to do is he has to say when the politics of the stimulus plan was a failure, even though parts of the stimulus plan work, he has to say when we did the stimulus plan, we didn't know we were in the same economic problems we now know. you must remember, we found out later that the economy was in

worse shape than we were told when bush left. i think he has to make the case we have to go back again and do short term things. had we known the economy was as bad as it was, we would have done more in the first place. >> as bad as the president's numbers are, he's below 40%, the republican congress is the only political entity in america polling worse. congress is the least liked. go down the list. republicans, at a certain point, republicans are going to think we have to deliver something if we are going to get reelected at midterms. >> the two things he faces in this fight, one is yes, people would like jobs. the mood of the country and certainly the house republicans is deficit reduction. he has to make the case, again, there needs to be more spending

and more stimulus in the face of that macro dominant move that existed since the tea party started. the other hurdle, the stimulus, chris acknowledged is a political failure. health care is a mixed bag, but doesn't control the deficit. his auto bailout is not given great credit. the president has to get the credibility back to say i know how to fix this economy. that's why the plan is so important. you have to give people the confidence this is the guy we should be following, not john boehner. >> i think he does that fighting people that are more unpopular than him. if i want to give an argument, i would want to get in an argument 25% lower than me. >> drive them down to 10%. how does that help? >> if they look like they are the ones blocking him, i think

he delivers in terms of putting out the plan that he's supposed to and i think politically, they fight it out in 2012. the problem is, how do we really relieve the pain of the people, which is the real priority for many of us including the president. i think that's why the president tries to be more realistic than some of us want him to be because you have to get something through if you really want to help people. >> the mood of the country, too. there's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophesy. if you look at the polling, jobs are deficit reduction, they choose jobs. >> revenue increases, they want that. >> he lost the fight. >> absolutely. the question is whether that had to do with the politics or whether the actual mood of the country. there clearly is a certain backlash that was caused by the tea party. there's a part of the population

that is angry. i'm not sure it captures the mood. >> given the result they got, why are they inclined to work with or make a deal with the president? they proved they don't have to. nationally, congress is viewed unfavorably. they went to their districts and did what they were sent to washington to do. >> a number of republicans in congress is irrelevant. they run in a district. in a district, the ones who stopped government spending and stopped and blocked tax increases are popular. a poll number on republicans in congress is completely irrelevant. >> if you look at the generic ballot, it does a good job. >> romney is running ahead of obama in head-to-head. we are entering a period where it's a fine argument to make. obama is going to run against a

republican nominee. he's going to present a jobs plan that has to certainly help the people hurting. there are 20 million people under employed in the economy. he's traveled in the country. they lost their jobs and their homes. it's not a political reality. it's reality of the country. the notion he can get something through is a fantasy. >> i think that's the challenge. you have to try to deal with the real unemployment, the real pain. i think, politically, you are right. as republicans may not in their district care about the national polls because they run locally, that will, in my opinion, make them drive your national candidate further to the right than he or she could become electable. that's where the tea party ends up hurting the republican party politically. the devil is going to be in the details between how the

president can deliver and how he uses them as the wedge to defeat you nationally. you may win locally and bring your national candidate so far to the right that you win the battle and lose the war. >> right now, you know, the unnamed republican nominee is polling ahead of the president. we'll see. >> you can't run hundreds of millions of ads against an unnamed republican. >> where is the middle ground here? we are going to rebuild every bridge in the united states. we are going to do all these great things. he knows it's not going to get through. where is the middle ground? >> nothing big can get done. >> it has to. the trigger awaits. >> right. but, there's certain people that want the trigger. >> not many. >> look, here's the thing. if you watch the last deal we just did, okay, watch that unfold. then you said, you know what?

to get the next deal, let's make it even between republicans and democrats. i don't understand the path from here to there that is going to make that process better. >> it was designed to be unfathomable to a large number of people in congress and people in the country. when that reality sinks in, they have to come up with a deal. i agree with you. evenly divided, it's a parody. >> it did you want matter a lot up there. >> where does that leave us? >> if you put out a big vision or plan that goes into the supercommittee, a lot of this is going to be broken down by the supercommittee. i think his challenge to put out a specific plan, break it down in a way that is reasonable to most americans, how you pass an

unreasonable congress is a treatment. you have the committee. i think the timing of this is going to be interesting. >> they aren't going to do anything. >> they are going to be super. >> the tax reform piece of it is the key. it's where there's potential for bipartisan compromise, economic stimulus and an achievement to set the country at a long term growth trajectory. it's hard to do a tax reform. it's hard to do. >> tax reform is one thing where it means different things. you can increase revenues by closing loopholes. it is the only opportunity in an otherwise incredibly -- >> i agree. here is the problem. there's conceptual overlap between the left and right. conservative economists will tell you it's irrational. it makes no sense to depreciate a corporate jet in a shorter amount of time. what is the economics for that?

the problem is the special interest who want the money, the extra two years of depreciation to stand in the way. if there's an overlap between a more fair, equitable tax system. someone's options are getting it in every paragraph of the code. >> that's the problem. >> that's when the big money comes into play. when someone has billions of dollars of tax breaks taken away, it shows up on capitol hill. >> we got rid of earmarks. that is a cultural change. you can stand-up to the special interest. >> it built over the years. you had a presidential contest where both the republican nominee and democratic nominee had the same position on earmarks. i don't know that we are there yet on tax reform. eliminating earmarks was a great development. not many people understand how significant it is. i don't know that we built up

the same kind of ground swell. president obama will be smart to put tom coburn on capitol hill. he's the most articulate defenders of tax reform who has not signed the pledge who has so many republicans in congress tied in knots and incapable of making a new policy. >> this speech comes after labor day, the president is going to make a big speech. chris, we have been sitting here for 14 minutes and haven't mentioned rick perry. it's irresponsible for us. >> i like the name. >> this kid is good. your take on rick perry over the last couple days, his performance on the hill. >> i was talking to a texas democrat on the phone yesterday. he said, you know, my message to the republican party, this is your guy. this guy is what you have been

dreaming of. i think what tim pawlenty showed is the key to success in this primary is connect viscerally with a certain kind of id logically zealous, emotional backlash rage to take the country back. it's what michele bachmann is calling her tour. this implication going to rough them up in texas. the pandering of the most obscure weight of the republican party, the gold bugs and the people who are worried about the dollar devaluing. it's not even the center of the republican party, the republican voters. it captures a stringent part of the party that is driving the agenda for the primary right now. perry, having governed in texas has an intuitive connection to that that mitt romney lacks and

bachmann has but doesn't have the money and record that she never governed. >> he's not popular with the entirety of the republican party yet. let's listen to what karl rove said. >> you don't accuse the chairman of the federal reserve of being a at a titraitor to his country. it's not a presidential statement. governor perry has to fight the impression he's a cowboy from texas. this added to it. >> reverend sharpton, i don't think he's looking to fight that image. >> he want that is image. the more he plays to that side, that small group chris is talking about is better for us. i hope he wins the nomination. i think he has everything we need. i don't know if it's everything the republicans need because i think people that were questioning me about the

president is clearly saying rick perry is the nominee, i'm getting up and watching willie geist every morning and getting ready to hand out my reelect president obama. run rick. go rick. >> in 2007 a republican said the same thing about the obama-clinton contest. she was responsible, she was credible, she was measured. obama was an ideolog. i'm just saying -- >> situation in the white house and you have the incumbent running. it's not a fair analysis. >> i'm processing the comparison of barack obama to rick perry. i'm going to work on that one. david faber joins us to

discuss the market. harry shearer on the sixth anniversary of hurricane katrina. next, chuck todd is on the road with president obama. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. a nice weather day today. thunderstorms in florida. what a great day in new england. temperatures mild. everywhere else is in the 80s. temperatures are mild. texas in the 100s. we would love to cool you off. it's not going to happen for a couple weeks. houston, the driest and warmest temperatures of the year. maybe we'll cool off slightly saturday and sunday. dallas is right behind with 10 degree heat through the weekend. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] this...is the network --

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i think you want a president that is passionate about america, that's in love with america. >> you want a president that's in love with america. you want a president who would in a rainstorm grab america's hand and take shelter in a nearby barn and help america out of their wet clothes, get down on hay bails and as america and rick perry become one, the sounds of their love making merging, the barn shutters, rattling the livestock. the livestock want to look away but they can't. governor, it's day two and you are hitting on america. the wrong campaign, man. you have to dial back to texas a notch. you are at yosemite sam level. you have to dial back to texas ranger.

>> that's amazing. joining us now from the art museum in davenport, iowa, political director and host of the daily rundown, chuck todd. good morning. >> river boat tour along the mississippi of the river banks of iowa. by the way, willie, wherever i go, there's a casino. there's one here. i have had a casino at every stop in iowa. iowa is the vegas of the midwest. >> did you hit blackjack, chuck? >> i have it. i'll be honest. usually i'm so no casino. this has been a rough trip. >> rough trip for a lot of people. chuck, let's talk about president obama. the sentiment around the table seems to be he handled graciously the rick perry

comments the last couple days, brushing them off in an interview saying he's only been there a couple days, i'm going to cut him some slack. how are they feeling the first day or so, the perry campaign? >> you would think he was cutting them slack or maybe no, no, no, no, rick perry don't pronounce so quickly. bring it on, please. is it like this? no, no, no, keep coming. that's the political cynic in me. do they want to get into a he said she said with any candidate on this non-campaign trip or make everything they are talking about get back on message and beating up on congress and trying to sell this economic

agenda he's trying to sell. look at it and nicolle would agree with this. there's nothing to be gained right now getting in the middle of a fight when you are trying to sell a tour reaching out to people and talk about distracting the story, that would have done that. >> chuck perry, about 11 miles away from the president yesterday, also in iowa. we were talking about this in the commercial break, there's no sense the governor is going to retreat from the comments he made, ever. what did you hear out of the campaign in. >> yesterday was a more subdued rick perry. right now kerry danville is telling me it was a different perry. he's not going to apologize for the comment but he wasn't looking around, looking for a microphone to double down,

either. she was telling me, when you were on the trail with him yesterday, you got the sense there was -- he was still absorbing how different it is that his words go national so fast. it's not as if somebody doesn't tell you that. until you see it when you are running for president, i don't think you get it that first time. iowa, yesterday, you could tell he was subdued and didn't want to make news and he didn't. everything we have seen today is still about the two-day old comment. >> we have a bunch of questions around the table for you. we'll start with reverend al sharpton. >> he didn't repeat the statements, but he didn't apologize for them. >> correct. >> the fact there was no official retraction may give us an indication, wouldn't you think, of the kind of campaign

they are xwoung going to have going forward? >> that's right. i think it's more about rick perry himself. he's not a guy that apologizes. so, when they believe they have made a political error or gone too far, they will never apologize for it, they won't repeat the error, if that makes sense. that's the line he's going to draw. he's put himself in an i don't apologize box. he said it a few times. >> even though you may not repeat it, it leaves it out there assuming he goes all the way down the road. >> it does. i think it tells you, this is the -- this is the influence of the tea party. four years ago, that style, a rick perry style of candidate would have been laughed out of the republican primary at that time. that isn't what the republican party was looking for at that

time. the strength of the tea party, we saw it. the head of the iowa tea party got in the president's face, politely, but it was a back and forth heated exchange. it's what is selling a good chunk. you need to be confrontational. that's why i think perry doesn't want to apologize for the moments. what you are seeing is a campaign trying to learn how to not cross the line too many times. >> pat buchanan. >> when you talk to people around president obama, would they prefer running against him in the general election of perry or michele bachmann are or they more apprehensive of mitt romney? >> who is the candidate he calls out by name in a town hall three times this week? mitt romney? who is the candidate he says i'm

going to cut slack to? rick perry. you don't have to be sophisticated to read between those lines. behind the scenes, oh, you know, almost licking their chops on rick perry. a bunch of us will remind him, yeah we have heard that line before about reagan, others say yeah, you know this one well. nixon picked his opponent and he got the one he wanted. pat, let me throw this question back to you. this is a brokaw series. this is what we saw against the democrats in '71 and '72 when all the energy was with the antiwar movement and it went too far and gave what was a president running in a tough economy not universally popular an easier time than he should have had. >> you are right. the movement was antiwar,

powerful, full of energy and youth. muskee was sort of a boring candidate and he got the nomination. our guys were working for mcgovern. >> there you go. >> nicolle, go ahead. >> this is a white house political operation. i'm struggling to believe they don't know that perry would certainly be formidable. he's never lost an election. he's made his career on being underestimated. if they don't acknowledge and realize he's tapping into something that transcends the tea party on the right, there are a lot of people that agree on his believes. they are setting themselves up to be blind sided. >> you know, nicolle, i think that they get they are trying to on one p handball lance that. we have seen the reagan movie,

too. be careful what you look for, you might get it. everything in their examination makes them think perry is no ronald reagan and yes, he's got this energy. with swing voters turned off by the confrontational style, whether it's what we are seeing of rick perry or they would argue what you have seen with house republicans. it goes back to the conversation you were having, in general, that's the numbers they are looking at. not because they think they are beating up congress, that tells them that swing voters are turned off by confrontation and therefore a nominee that is more confrontational will help them. >> chuck, i don't want to cast it on your tour. we have to read for mr. miami hurricane. a former miami booster serving a 20-year sentence for a ponzi

scheme. impermissible benefits to 72 of the university's football players, nightclub outings, sex parties an other benefits. your reaction? >> i remind people, nicolle tell me how my spin is on this, there's only one convicted felon in this story. that's the guy making the allegation. he's the criminal. he committed the criminal act. how is that? >> i think we should lean into it. that would be my advice. >> there's one thug. >> you know, all i say is we have a new regime at the university of miami. >> i'm going to read one quote from the guy. >> it's a new day. >> here is what he said, access to clubs, strip joints, my house, my boat. we are talking high school football players.

not just anybody can get into clubs and strip joints. who's going to make it happen? that was me. see you on "the daily rundown" at 9:00. >> thanks. >> a new plan to help solve the european debt crisis. is it enough? david faber joins us next.

welcome back to "morning joe." global markets reversing the week's earlier gains in a meeting between nicolas sarkozy and angela merkel. david faber is joining us. >> good to be here. >> explain what the meeting was about. sarkozy and merkel get together to tighten the union in europe. >> align tax policies here. at some point in the future to balance the budgets for the country. they come together in a time of what is crisis to a certain extent for the euro, the euro

zone. we have been dealing with a year and a half of grief and the periphery they have been having and their inability to ultimately pay back their debt. that has spread in the last month to italy and spain. no longer the periphery but the euro zone in many ways. merkel and sarkozy come together. they want a bond to be backed. it didn't happen. in that atmosphere, they came together yesterday. a good amount of expectations. ultimately, this is a problem that is not going away. >> it's one thing to bail out portugal and greece, but this is a different animal. >> are they going to move forward to a federal union, a

united states of europe where the europeans can deal with the problems as a central government dealing with the problems of a state or whether they are going to move backwards towards the idea the nation state. it seems to me the economic system in europe and the belief in sovereignty is going to break it. >> that's the key question, whether they can with stand this and be in a position, if it were to happen to bail out spain and italy, as you say. almost $2 trillion in a national debt. it's an enormous economy with a lot of debt held outside that country. much of it comes down to germany. the willingness of the german taxpayer to pay. germany is the key.

the german economy barely grew, just .1%. >> can you explain to me -- >> i can't. >> no, i have been trying to follow. how does the -- say they agree to the euro bond. say they did or down the road. how did that solve the problem? >> they would issue the bonds -- >> new debt but grounded in a future. >> at the end of the day, you have the germans who are paying most of the carry on that. they would be carrying the load. that becomes the question. will the german taxpayer continue to want to do that. it had been playing out time and again. it's reflected in our markets here and there. we have a fury of discontent in the u.s. worries the euro zone is going to break apart. a debate. we get a conversation.

we get a save, more money thrown at the problem. ultimately, the problem is still there. listen, it's not dissimilar to our problems that we see that we have been trying to deal with and came up in the debt ceiling. >> what is the best case for them? >> economic growth would help. europe is barely growing now. you have austerity programs put in place. does it help you grow your economy? it doesn't seem to be in europe at this point. the greeks are in recession. germany and much of the euro zone is growing at this point. italy is sharing in the austerity program. we don't know what will occur. they could use significant growth. that would help a lot of the problem. >> the closer -- as they move closer and closer together toward a united states europe, the markets seem to rise. what would happen over there, if

basically the southern tier were dropped out and the german's said we had enough bailing out these characters, let's keep the core group responsible and we can't deal with it? what would happen? >> i could not tell you the answer. that's an unknown. everybody looks now at what we call the transmission channels of risk. remember, during our own financial crisis, we learned things as a journalist for over 23 years at that point, that i didn't know about. the question comes back to what is the risk transmitted back here? what are the losses? i don't know is the answer. could it with stand saying good-bye to a few members? many of whom did not tell the truth in terms of their own financial statements when they joined the euro zone. >> we got word president obama is going to be making a speech

on jobs after the labor day holiday. what do the markets want to hear from the president? >> at this point,itis not clear the president can say anything if the markets are going to respond. a couple weeks back, after the debt ceiling debate and said things, the market did not respond positively. i cannot give you an answer that there's something they could say that you hear the course, the course of business, perhaps more positive about business and small business. they have been trying to do that for some time. >> feelings. >> i get -- i hate to say it. come on guys. at the end of the day where the action has been versus the rhetoric. the rhetoric has been. who cares? apparently, confidence gets hurt when feelings get hurt. >> great to see you. thanks for being here. coming up next, secretary of state hillary clinton and leon

panetta defending the united states handling of the conflicts in libya and syria. what secretary clinton call marked power, next. [ male announcer ] notebooks,

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join over a million others who have chosen liberty medical. call now and get your free meter. plus for a limited time get a free cookbook when you join. call the number on your screen. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 7:47 in the morning here on the east coast. secretary of state, hillary clinton is defending the united states response to the con flicks in libya and syria. clinton pointed out part of the nation's role as a strong leader requires coordination with other countries. >> it's not going to be any news if the united states says he needs to go. okay, fine, what's next?

if turkey says it. if other people say it, there's no way the regime can ignore it. i think this is smart power. it's not just brute force or unilateralism. it's being smart enough to say we want a bunch of people singing out of the same hymn book. >> it's short of calling for him to step down. what more can our diplomatic community do? >> i think they are reluctant to do it. one is, it looks to me like asaad is going to survive. secondly, if he goes, one of the slogans over there is when he goes, the christians to beirut, they are going to throw them out. we don't know what's going to happen when he goes down. i think there's reluctance there. i think the secretary of state

is correct. they want us to get out and say he must go. we said that in libya and the guy didn't go. he may be gone now. the united states looks weak. if we say that and he doesn't go. i understand why she's in such a tough situation. i think she's handling it as best she can. >> what else can we do, mark? >> it's not even a close call. we don't control the outcome by any means. libya has more of an active role in trying to do it. it's important for the president, as the previous president tried to do to stay on the side of freedom, young people and modernization and democratic reform. as long as we covert operations where necessary and possible, i think it's the best you can do in a difficult situation. >> i might add that i don't disagree with either of you, but i think american prestige exists for the purpose of shining a spotlight on the atrocities that are happening. they are killing children. and so i think perhaps there's a

little bit more. i don't follow the state department. i'm sure they are focused on it but i think it might warrant some more attention and i think american mess teeth goes a long way in terms of shining a spotlight on a part of the world where unthinkable atrocities occur. >> the libya question was framed as a moral one. if we don't step in, hundreds of people will do. people are actually dying in the streets every day. >> that is why the libya -- the libya war set a strange precedent. the approximate precipitating condition for the war was the specter of an imminent massacre of civilians. we're not seeing anything quite on the order of the mill tarrized invasion. >> there were two other conditions, america's interests were threatened and we could conceivably come up with a way where we could have an impact. those don't exist in syria. >> what do you say if assad must

go and assad stays united states i think it would be a humiliation for the united states. if you say something like that, you've got to effect the outcome and as mark says, we don't have the ability to effect the outcome. >> coming up here on "morning joe." we'll talk to harry shearer he'll discuss his documentary "the big uneasy." [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.

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welcome back to "morning joe" we have a clip by request. on conan, ann hathaway expressing a hidden -- not ready to call it a talent. she did some rapping, talking about the paparazzi and came up with an anti-paparazzi song in what she says is her lil wayne voice. >> could i even haerp a little bit of this rap song? >> okay. i'll do that. it's in the style of lil wayne. he recently wrote a love song called how to love and it's beautiful. i thought if he can play with

expectations maybe i can too. >> so a rap song about the paparazzi. >> yes. ♪ i'm a paparazzi, i don't play no yhatzee ♪ ♪ i tell the press like i see ♪ that's my job ♪ don't act so hotcy totcy scream all you want won't make me stop ♪ ♪ i know you love to feel my pop ♪ [ applause ] >> we're going to go a for effort on that one. >> i think so. >> if we did -- he would be offended by that. >> could you get somebody to tweet the lyrics.

>> is that your idea of a good time? >> you know, i'll leave it at that. i admire her. and i think she was stepping outside her comfort zone. politicians would be well served to do the same. >> i would like to see rick perry's voice frankly. >> he's got one. he's got one of everything. >> are you leaving? >> i think, yeah. >> that's a sad outcome. chris, we'll miss you when you're gone. >> that was your sendoff. >> thanks for being with us. look forward to the big weekend show. tonight -- >> not tonight, there will be someone -- a mystery guest host tonight on "the last verdict". >> thanks a lot. we'll have more with pat buchanan and nicolle wallace and al sharpton when we come back. [ male announcer ] you love the taste of 2% milk.

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presidential race and i think that everybody who runs for president, it probably takes them a little bit of time before they start realizing that this isn't like running for governor or running for congress and you've got to be a little more careful about what you say. i'll cut him some slack. he's only been at it for a few days now. >> good morning, it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. back with us onset, mark halperin, pat buchanan, nicolle wallace and reverend al sharpton. reverend sharpton, we talked about this yesterday, some of rick perry's comments, not just

the tree sonnous comment about the fed but i don't know if the president loves america, go ask him. are you troubled by the president's response yesterday? >> i saw some progressives saying fight back. the president kind of gave perry a pass on those comments yesterday. do you wish he had condemned them more than he did. >> i think what he says is he gives him some slack. i don't know a lot of people that are progressive, including me, would give him that. i think that for him to say that he cannot affirm that he believes the president loves the country, or for him to say the statement about bernanke, i think was way over the line. particularly when the republicans have created a political climate where even those that you are connected to you have to answer what they say. let's not forget now that the republicans ran against this president on things his pastor said. and things others says, not that

he said. so if perry is entering the race saying these things himself, i think it's fair game for a lot of us to say, wait a minute, look at what he's saying, not what his preacher said or somebody he knew said. what he said. >> nicole, were you surprised that perry given the opportunity yesterday didn't walk any of these back? a lot of people expected, he would say i didn't mean to say that the fed chairman was treasonnous. >> well, second thought, maybe someone seeking the highest office in the land shouldn't say that, so, i think obviously president obama should care a lot more about what you think than me. but i thought that he handled it in a way that karl rove allowed him to handle it. when you've got some of the loudest voices on the right kicking perry in the teeth for

saying things that were unbecoming to someone seeking to be the next president, i think the president has the room to be as gracious as he was. i thought he handled it nicely. if it was disappointing to people that matter to him most, then maybe -- >> in fairness, jay carney was tougher on rick perry than the president. let's listen to what karl rove said about rick perry. >> don't accuse the chairman of the federal reserve of being a traitor to his country and guilty of treason, that's not a presidential statement. he'll have to fight the impressions from texas, this added to it by accusing somebody of being guilty of being a traitor to his country. >> mark halperin, does rick perry care that he's being viewed as a cowboy from texas? >> the bush people say that the texas thing did not always work well for george bush. he had to talk about his

accomplishments in texas and that the image of a texan rubbed some americans the wrong way. they believe it's still out there, being a texan is negative and that perry's style does less to diffuse that because he's all texas where bush had other cards to play. it is humbling to sit here with two formal presidential candidates who never made any mistakes on the campaign trail. rick perry could learn by studying what they did. >> don't get me startedwide that. >> perry had a great first 48 hours then had this bad day in iowa. i think that, you know, he didn't back off and now he's going to have to see. does he make more mistakes. in politics in general, if the opposition is making an issue of something, it dies out. the press doesn't sustain it on its own. the romney is not making an issue on this. i think perry has a chance now. but if he makes more of these,

people will be on guard. >> pat buchanan the voice of reason in '92 and '96. >> perry is galloping through iowa like an unbroken stallion in fear of breaking his leg. you don't want to engage rick perry and bring him up to your level. it's a gracious thing for the president of the united states to do. cut him slack, he's just in the league, that's the smart thing to do. the third thing is, let the republicans, you have karl rove and republicans ripping up perry, far more credible from the president's standpoint to have the republicans ripping up perry than reverend sharpton, for example. >> nicole said yesterday that rick perry's entrance to the race was like a cool drink of water for the republican party crawling through the sand, something along those lines. >> desperate for excitement.

>> what do you think he says about the level of excitement he's generated? what does that say about where the republican party is? >> as the republicans slip on the ice in the cool glass of water. is the perry statements that we are talking about a strategy or just him coming in shooting from the hip cowboy style. we'll see. and i think that some of us think it could be a swift boat strategy. others think he's just having learner's mistakes. we'll say, it is too generous that a man who has been governor as long as he has and understands the political stage is continually making these mistakes in 48 hours. this is not a guy who never held office or never been on the stage. this is a guy who has been governor of texas a while. i think he knows what he's doing. >> that's customariry

conversation in texas, reverend. you say these things in texas it's not going to be a very big deal. but you do it on a national presidential level with all of these reporters and i think it's just texas trash talk. >> calling the head of a fed -- guilty of treason is not talking about your opponent and not regular talk in texas. >> let me ask you, what do you think when he says it could get ugly in texas when he shows up? does anyone seriously think he's talking about assaulting the chairman of the federal reserve? >> i don't think you've got to talk about what you think. we can talk about what he said. whatever he said, he opened the door to any kind of interpretation. >> let's talk about what the president is doing. he's wrapping up the three-day bus tour through the midwest stopping in the home state of illinois for a couple of town meetings before he heads off tomorrow on a ten-day vacation. the president appeared before a group of farmers and small business owners in iowa with the focus on jobs and urging

congress to boost the economy bypassing an extension of the payroll tax cut and new road construction bill. throughout his remarks though, he continued to blame congress suggesting lawmakers standing in the way of the economic growth. >> you do your part. you meet your obligations. well, it's time washington acted as potentially as you do every single day. >> we've got a lot of work to do. the only way it will get done is if democrats and republicans put country ahead of party and put the next generation ahead of the next election. >> mark, what do you make of the strategy over the last couple of days which is to go after congress, to talk about washington as a place that he's not a part of? what's the strategy here? >> i think this is mostly a place holder, allow him to go on his vacation without particularly democrats being unhappy, some in the press that he's not done enough to talk about jobs, not done enough to frame the debate for the fall. we're going to have a pretty intense september, october, november, in the run-up to the

super commission trying to make decisions. the white house has the view that the public is more on their side than the result of the debt ceiling fight demonstrated and the president is trying to tee up for people, saying i'm against what's going on in washington. our politics is broken, hem me fix it. he's trying to lay down that predicate. it's really just a placeholder until he has a plan he puts forward and starts to fight for it, we're not going to see the contours of what this debate is all about. >> is that an effective message? >> it's classic obama. he needs an enemy. we talked to robert gibbs yesterday, they are still fighting. they still plan to blame the country's problems on somebody else. they have not yet entered the responsibility era of the obama presidency. whether it's a plagsholder or latest straw man, this is what they do. in their defense, this has worked out for them thus far. i think he may be entering a

point though where the american people would respect him more for saying, you know, we were distracted. maybe health care wasn't the right thing to focus on. and i think that what happens when your approval numbers slip down in the low 40s. you've lost credibility with the people that no longer approve of your performance as president. i remember this with george w. bush when public support for the iraq war slipped into very, very unhealthy numbers for him. he gave a series of three speeches where he admitted all of the mistakes on the diplomatic front and all of the mistakes on the military execution and all of the mistakes in the rebuilding of the country. and it didn't win back people, people like you, but it did win back people in the middle that had once been supportive. i think a strategy where obama tries to capture the attention and his own credibility with people that once believed in him very much, would be more appropriate than seeking out a

gnaw straw man. >> i think he's making a mistake out there for this reason. take folks like chris matthews, tremendous supporter, where's the plan? where's the program? and the president will march off to -- martha's vineyard, apparently. >> he should go to texas. >> and on the bicycle when everybody is -- >> get those hay bales. >> i think the public said in the same polls that the congress has been far more disappointing. i think the president had come out with the grand bargain that was blocked. i think that the president's passing health care and other things has created his record. now, some people have said they

wish we would see more, fine. you can't act as though the president had the wherewithal to move forward as george bush did. the mistakes were not blocked and the president's grand bargain was blocked. i don't think you have the same thing. i don't think that my friend pat who had no problem with mr. bush in the middle of two wars he created going to texas every chance he got. i think his opinion of the president's vacation will give you some slack. >> let me correct you there. o f i oppose george bush's war in iraq, okay? >> you didn't oppose his vacation? >> no, i don't oppose vacation. i think nicole and i agree with that. presidents ought to have vacations. the president of the united states, willie, down to 39%. that means he's not losing gas like pat buchanan. he's starting to lose people in his base who are exas per rated and some of whom are saying, maybe the hope and change thing isn't working out the way we wanted. i don't think riding around in

the bus out there repeating the same message with no problem is helping him. >> pat, wasn't ronald reagan down? >> he was down there too, sure. >> did he come back? >> yeah, but the economy by now reverend, is moving in at 6%. >> wouldn't it make sense for him to come back with a jobs plan and try to fight it through? i think you ought to come back with a tax plan and a deficit -- >> i agree too. >> and a jobs plan. >> he should come back with a tax plan, come back and say we need to stop bush's tax cuts, i agree. >> one of the presidents strengths as a politician is he's patient. he doesn't get caught up in the day to day, giving perry a pass on his comments. i don't think he wants to do that. he plans to do is come back and have this fight when he puts out his plan in the fall and i think he's going to win that fight. >> coming up next, as the sixth

anniversary of hurricane katrina approaches, is new orleans any safer and have engineering failures been fixed there? actor and director harry shearer is here to discuss "the big uneasy." and the down markets for a second straight day. we'll go live to simon hobbs. but first, bill karins has a check on the forecast. >> this hurricane season has been anything but. we haven't had any hurricanes yet, it's incredible. here we are august 17th. as far as today goes, very quiet weather today. it's a beautiful start. new england temperatures in the 6 60. we're going into the upper 80s. chance of showers and storms return for this region on thursday. tomorrow minor problems. around the rest of the country, maybe a shower or storm in chicago, warm conditions in the deep south. 100 degree heat in texas and we're calling for thunderstorms there in orlando.

the rest of the country as we go through thursday, east coast i mentioned the showers and storms, we haven't had any wet weather this entire month on the west coast. that's not going to change any time soon. amazingly cool summer in the pacific northwest. you're watching "morning joe" a look at the nation's capitol, brewed by starbucks.

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♪ >> likely experience a category one or category two conditions. >> this is contrary to the u.s. army corps of engineers who are trying to claim that katrina was a -- >> 1 in 496 probability of occurrence. >> the army corps of generals

came out in the green suits and immediately said -- >> that was a big storm. >> the reason they are doing that, is to cover their behind. >> that's a clip from the documentary, the big uneasy, a film that explores the real reason new orleans flooded after hurricane katrina and the ongoing revival of a great american city. we're joined by the director, harry shearer. welcome back. >> thank you. >> conventional wisdom, hurricane katrina and what happened afterward in new orleans, natural disaster. you say nonsense. >> i'm a comedian, i work in the show business world. what i say doesn't matter but what i did in this film was focus the camera on three people who do know what they are talking about, the leaders of two independent investigations into the flooding and a whistle blower from inside the corps of engineers. the two leaders of the investigations, the investigations lasted months and involved dozens and dozens of high skilled imminent people.

formally concluded this was not a natural disaster, this was in the words of berkeley investigation, the greatest man made engineering catastrophe since chernobyl. that's pretty big nonetheless. they placed the responsibility squarely at the feet of the u.s. army corps of engineers. i think it is possibly why it hasn't gotten as much oxygen as it might have because people can't sit across the table and say it's your fault, no it's your fault. >> in the film there's a mention of a 1988 report among other things where essentially people waving their arms and screaming saying the levees will not hold. >> people inside the corps of engineers wrote this report. they ignored it. >> that raises the question. why were these reports ignored over four decades? were they incompetent?

were they corrupt, under funded? >> if you ask any government agency, including the corps of engineers, they'll always say more money, please. but they -- it was not money that made them make some of the decisions they made. it was not money that made them, for example in the very early days when congress in 1966 said to the corps, build a system that will protect new orleans from the maximum probable hurricane, congress's words and the corps immediately redefines that as a standard project hurricane and throw out of that model all of the recent most severe hurricanes as i am probable outliars. that wasn't congress with budget strings. that was the corps's own choice. why we don't go into mind reading in the film. we tell what happened and leave the viewer to make a decision. but if i had to speculate, i'd say that in 1927, the corps was

given blanket immunity by congress for civil liability on any flood control work. and if you tell people in any kind of organization private or public, big or small there's no penalty for failure, you're going to get more failure. >> let me ask you, harry. when you talk about it how prepared it was for a hurricane. obviously we hear two or three or four or five. was it -- did they make a decision, the corps of engineers and did they say, look, this thing will handle a category 4 hurricane or this will handle a category 5 hurricane or it will only handle a three? >> they said this will handle a 3. but in fact, as you saw max mayfield at the beginning of the clip when katrina bypassed new orleans it was a maximum strong 1 or weak 2. the storm surge that hit new orleans was under the level that the corps had said would be withstood about its system. as a matter of fact, that's the first thing that lead these investigators to make their investigation. they went and looked at the

actual evidence on scene days afterwards before it had been cleaned up. the corps said the water was so high, the surge was so high, it overtopped the walls and the doctor who you saw in the clip said, water leaves a mark. the high water mark is nowhere near the top of the walls. >> the investigation, they looked back, did they also look forward and make projections about what would happen if a storm of that size or larger hits? is it forward looking and back -- >> those investigations were forensic, they were doing what nobody else did which was look back and affix responsibility. there is a third person in the film who is a whistle blow erin side the corps working on the multibillion dollar system which we constructed under the last two administrations and she was supervised for testing and installation of pumps at the heart of the station. she said they never passed their

tests even when the standards were lowered over and over again and they will not work during a storm surge event. those are the pumps we have in new orleans right now. and that's in the film. the update very coincidentally to the fact that the film is coming out on dvd and all of these other digital flat forms. they said, a., the corps had given the contract to a kroenny, a former official of the corps in new orleans. and b, the amount of time the corps spent evaluated that bidder's technical ability to work is less than five minutes. that's less than the o.j. jury spent. >> you said cronny like it's a

bad thing. why are you so passionate in telling this story? >> it's not just new orleans, dallas was told the levees along the trinity river through downtown dallas are built on sand. sacramento has a bull's-eye on its back. it's all over the country and it's not just levees and flood control, the corps doing these possibly very damaging kinds of dredging projects like in the delaware river in savannah. they are a very controversial agency but fly under the radar because every congressional district has a corps project. that's the way the system works. michael, a former journalist at the "washington post" wrote a four-part series on the corps. >> and my colleague at "time." >> and explains the system by which the corps works. dr. robert b., the leader of the berkeley investigation was in the corps and says clearly, it's no longer the corps of engineers. they hollowed out to a great

extent in the '80s they are the contract of corps administrators and their job is supervise contracting on projects they don't understand because they are not engineers anymore. >> the big thing that all of us saw was all of those people at the -- the super dome down there sitting there day after day and the whole country screaming. i think that's the reason this country was so focused on it, was what appeared to be the human tragedy, 15,000 people. could they have done that -- it seems to me, when you see what happened in dun kirk, they got 350 troops under german fire in five days. what went wrong that they couldn't get the people off? >> i don't deal with the aftermath in the film. i deal with the cause of the disaster. if you've read the book by dave eggers, about the experience of one man in new orleans, it rever reveals a fact, unknown to me or the rest of us, while nobody could bring food and water down

there, somebody managed to build a secret prison in the greyhound bus parking lot within two days because he was kept there for two months because he happened to be syrian american and people didn't like the way he looked. to your larger point. you saw the 15,000 people in the super dome. what you didn't see was the thousands of white folks on their roofs without food and water for four days, ten miles east of there in saint bernard parish because tv didn't go there. this event was marginalized as a racial or class story when it affected everybody. 80% of the metropolitan area was white folks, asians, latinos. i think the media cover marginalized it. it took the usness out of this event. >> given our current economic and political climate. >> it's a good one. >> it doesn't bode well i wouldn't think for

infrastructure like what you're talking about here. >> we just had 8 to $15 billion invested on this system that has at the heart of it defective pumps. it's not a money issue. >> what do you need to change? >> i think somebody needs to change the culture of the united states army corps of engineers. i think that's what everybody in the film who studied the matter concludes. and it starts with the whistle blower in this film reported on these pumps through the channels and went to the office of special counsel and a letter from them summarizing the problems was placed on the desks of the chairman of the armed services committees of both houses and of the president of the united states in june of 2009 where it said unread since then. >> we point out to people, there's not conspiracy torial or romantic about this film in any way, it's a well argued case. the movie is "the big uneasy",

available nationwide now on video on demand. you can check it out through your cable system or on web portals, including itunes and x box and also on dvd through amaz amazon. >> big uneasy.com has all of that information. >> you can see more with harry in the mojo green room. you didn't know about that. >> i did. >> right after the show to see behind the scenes interviews with harry and our other "morning joe" guests. >> it involves balloon animals and finger puppets. >> the letter written four years ago has a new twist to the british hacking scandal. plus, business before the bell with simon hobbs. ♪

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there are new allegations in the british phone hacking scandal that has rocked rupert murdoch's empire. an old letter has surfaced in which a former reporter at the "news of the world" claims illegal hacking was well known

and widespread at the agency. michelle, good morning. >> reporter: both rupert murdoch and -- said they had no -- even though outcomes and an old letter claiming that hacking was common knowledge discussed as part of daily meetings. >> this is about the most humble day of my life. >> reporter: they have denied knowing anything at the top of phone hacking allegations of royals and murder victims, despite private investigators being on the payroll. despite paying out huge settlements to people suing over this. whatever they knew or didn't, a letter has now surfaced from their former royal reporter to the company's hr department, clive goodman who served once in prison for the hacking.

wrote after his release that it was widely discussed in the daily editorial conference. until then the editor andy coalson banned mentioning it that that it had the full knowledge and support of staff and that the editor promised on many occasions that i could go back to a job at the newspaper if i didn't implicate the newspaper or its staff. that editor told parliament this two years ago. >> never condone the use of phone hacking nor do i have any recollection of incidences where phone hacking took place. >> if that was a deliberate decision by the company to mislead parliament, than substantial questions have to be asked. that sounds like a deliberate cover-up. >> reporter: now there's talk of calling james murdoch back to parliament. last month he explained why his company didn't push further in its internal investigation. >> reviewed an opinion based on that review was issued to the company of a respected law firm and the opinion was clear. and the company rested on that. >> reporter: that law firm is

calling james' testimony inaccurate, misleading and self-serving. the company's response, that it understands how important this all is and will continue to cooperate. there's a little bit of a blame game going on here. murdoches are saying both plaes and our law firm said there was no reason to believe back then a couple of years ago that this could have been anything bigger. well the lawyers are saying, wait a minute, we were told to look at by the company, was very very limited. nevertheless, at this point is there any evidence that the murdochs knew hacking could have been widespread? no and the investigation goes on, willie. >> as you say, michelle, james murdoch likely to be called before parliament once again. thanks so much. let's check now on business before the bell with consider simon hobbs live at the stock change. >> we're looking at the slightly higher open. things are quieter than last

week. overnight we had good results from target, staples and abercrombie likely to rise at the open. there was a disappoint with dell, particularly its revenue, talking about their business starting to slow down in the middle of june and that slowdown continued through the course. that's a concern obviously because we're trying to second guess what sort of growth we're going to get in the second half of the year. at the moment although dell will come under pressure in the open after the trade last night it seems to be the view this maybe a dell specific fen phenomenon we have hewlett-packard reporting later in the week. we have the merkel sarkozy meeting yesterday, they didn't say they would increase the size of the rescue fund and certainly weren't talking about establishing ueuro bonds. and in fact, europe portrayed down slightly because it's going

to be a new transaction tax as we look at this higher open here at the new york stock change. >> you mentioned germany last quarter only.1% growth gdp. at what point do germans say we're getting dragged down the the rest of the europe. we don't want part of the euro zone or bailouts. >> if you look at the opinion polls there is a growing feeling that that is an issue within germany. if you say to people, are you really unhappy with the state? quite often times they'll say yes. the problem is dismantling the euro, there is no mechanism to do that. so to go through that process would be so chaotic and difficult and perhaps as angela merkel keeps reminding the germans, a lot of their success is based on the euro and based on the fact they were within a single currency that is fall lower than the deutsche mark. but clearly it is the unpopularity of the situation is

swelling not just in germany, willie. >> pat buchanan has a question. >> it seems you've either got to go forward to sort of a federal union of europe towards the united states of europe or you've got to go back to the old free trade zone idea. and they seem to be caught and unable to decide. is that right? >> yes, i think that is probably true because they reached a point at which the germans will have to start giving up, for example big things. they have to start share being their good credit name if they do this euro bonds type issue. on the other side, if you look at what merkel and sarkozy are saying, they are talking about greater fiscal consideration, to the rest of the europe, we've reached a point where you need balanced amendments in your constitutions by next summer. we're going to start coordinating to a greater extent. that's the sort of stuff that they were saying right they beginning under the treaty just they never enforced it or had

discipline. but there is at least talk of that. >> simon hobbs live for us at the new york stock exchange. coming up next, were secrets revealed to china about the high tech blackhawk helicopter that was abandoned during the bin laden raid in pakistan. i like to make my own investment decisions. excuse me, what is that? oh, i'm a fidelity customer. okay, but what does it do? well, it gets me the tools and research i need to help me make informed decisions. with fidelity, i can invest in stocks, bonds, all at a great price. wow. yeah, wow.

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the president announced a couple hours ago a major speech on jobs after the labor day weekend. we're getting details now quitting a white house official, job creation measures included

in the super committee deficit cutting package, tax cuts, infrastructure, help for certain sectors and long-term unemployed. these all come from an obama official. we're already getting e-mails from republicans and congress mark halperin saying, here we go again. he's made a number of quote major speeches on the economy, on how to create jobs and to no avail in those cases. >> we talked about republicans feeling pressure to do something. jobs is the number one issue for vot voters, they have to be willing to work with the president. the republicans care more about winning the election than getting people to work is a legitimate one and until the republicans prove that they are willing to compromise to help create jobs, the hon os will be on them if the president can find a way to put pressure on them. >> and raising renew won't be a part of it. >> they simly won't do it. why don't they carve out what

they like, jobs and infrastructure et cetera and then go with the tax proposals and put together pretty much a combined package with the best parts of barack obama and the best parts of the republican program. >> i don't think from harry reid's point of view or president's point of view you can cut enough without new revenue to get a package they would consider acceptable, what we saw in the last round. >> they are not going to take rates up. >> they are not going to advocate taking rates up. >> the opportunity to put some revenues on the table is tax reform which we talked about earlier this morning. and you've got a couple of strong and incredibly conservative republicans in the senate, tom coburn is a vocal advocate of tax reform which would include closing loopholes and lowering rates. we'll see if that's what obama talks about and see if he can put senator coburn on air force one and try to build public support. >> when people talk about loopholes there's the

deductions, one thing to say we're going to take away the ability for them to benefit in a special way. will they have the political courage to say home mortgage deduction has a cap on it. >> mortgage taxes aren't deductable. >> republicans went along with them and reagan, we went down to 28%. >> five years ago, ten years ago republicans were for an individual mandate as the key to carrying health care. historically it would be for a simplified code but if it's something the president wants, republicans will be against it. >> a lot depends on the tone. if this is a lecturing speech where he rails against washington as though he's an innocent detached bystander of the chaos and mayhem, i think republicans will be unwilling to sit down and work with them. if he makes this a classic obama post partisan extending a hand like he talked about doing in iran and all of the enemies,

we'll see, maybe there's a shot. >> an open hand. >> but does he go after entit entitleme entitlement. will the president put entitlements into his speech, here's what we have to do -- >> if he has courage and cares about history, he should at a minimum puts social security on the table. >> what does the party to? >> accept the fact that some people will not like to talk about changing social security. i think it will help him politically and can get you a deal. he'll have to say in courage in public what he said to boehner in public, what he was doing to social security and medicare and medicaid. >> how do you think the country will react? because the democrats obviously are terrified of this touching medicare, medicaid and social security, they've been off the table. and they were concerned when president obama, the deal with boehner they were there. he's going to put 3 trillion in cuts that deal with entitleme

entitlements? >> if he does what i long thought he would do, which is something that doesn't have a political upside but the right thing to do to address the problem. >> i think a lot of republicans will go for that. >> which is why i don't think he'll do it. >> some will. but it's still likely -- >> you still have to build a coalition that has democrat and republican votes in the house with more republicans. nancy pelosi voted for the debt ceiling deal. i don't think she'd vote for the kind of thing we're talking about here unless it had substantial revenue. >> i think the republicans, if you get rid of the property tax and cap mortgage interests and drop the rate, i would go for that in a second. >> you're a reasonable man. >> don't go that far, mark. >> don't ruin his reputation. l,

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one more news story, china is dismissing a report that claims pakistan gave that country access to the united states helicopter with advanced stealth technology, the one that crashed during the raid that killed osama bin laden in may. during the nearly 40 minute operation, navy s.e.a.l.s were forced to abandon the blackhawk. the financial times reported that pakistan gave china access to the wreckage. this news comes as vice president joe biden begins his trip to china, part of the goal

of the visit is to improve u.s./chinese relations, determined to put relations on a steady and sustainable track for the coming decades. again, china denying that report they were given access to the blackhawk helicopter used in the raid to kill osama bin laden. coming up next, what if anything did we learn today? [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the jetta, awarded a top safety pick by the iihs. that's the power of german engineering. hurry in and lease the jetta s for just $179 a month.

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michele bachmann made a mistake. today she wished elvis presley a happy birthday even though today is the anniversary of his death. oops. that's true. when told about the mistake, bachmann said my apologies to not only elvis but the entire costello family. [ applause ] >> that's scarier than the cover. time to tell you what we learned today. mark halperin, what do you say? >> rick perry so far at this hour is holding his own in one of toughest political forums in

the country. global warming, legal reform, capital punishment seems like he's handling it. >> here's a picture right now the politics and eggs breakfast. >> i learned the white house is so far making the same mistake that governor perry's defeated opponents made in the last two decades in underestimating his potential and his capacity to really capture the imagination of the country. >> beth? >> that was exactly what i was going -- they are waiting for rick perry. we may not like the results. >> got that leg up on the hay bale. >> thanks so much. we'll see you back here tomorrow. stick around right now for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. it's the third and final day of the president's midwest bus trip. there have been some