of the republican heat was announced, but a week later, his fiery comment summoned the party hoping they'll cool it with the cowboy talk. another plunge for the dow, down over 400 points, what's behind the volatility this time and how real are fears of slipping back into recession? and after months of violence, the u.s. calls on syrian president assaad to step down. but is there any way to make him listen? happy friday, it's august 19, 2011. and this is the daily rundown. i'm chris cillizza, in for chuck todd. what a difference a week makes, this time last friday, the gop field consisted of mitt romney and a crew of republicans fighting for second billing. then michele bachmann grabbed a big win in ames, and tim pawlenty dropped off. all of that happened in just the last seven days. to where will we stand in the next seven days. with me now, nbc political

reporter h -- it feels like he's always been with us. if he entered like a ball of fire, and then there were some things he had to say that got the establishment a little worried. >> the president said i needed to watch what i say, mr. president, actions speak louder than words. >> i don't know what you all would do to them in iowa, but we would treat them pretty ugly down in texas. >> it's a theory that is out there, it's got some gaps in it, but texas would teach both creationism and -- >> a lot of people in texas know rick perry but a lot of people outside of texas don't necessarily know who he is. rick perry has got essentially two paths to the nomination, he

could play in two brackets, he could play in this tea party brackets where he goes against michele bachmann, either way, he's trying to be the anti-romney. he's got to ally some of the fears of the establishment. you see karl rove and all these other people come out against that kind of a comment. he's got to try to straddle the line, you saw him have a little bit more muted tone in new hampshire, he gave a pretty business friendly speech to a business friendly audience. >> part of his appeal in a way is the kind of straight talker, no apologies, i call them how i see it.

>> let's talk about that. it seems like every day this week, it was paul ryan, maybe, then it was chris christie, was he conducts focus groups, turns out he wasn't conducting focus groups for 2012. what does that tell us about what the republican -- >> mitt romney has been running since 2008, he's been running since 2006 for the presidency. they still haven't come around for him. he still has an issue to win over that establishment, why? because of health care. we saw a little bit of that with his harping on people on his ethnic name backgrounds. they're still not pleased with him. they're still waiting for this white flight, but within a month, there's white night, they're probably going to have to choose between perry and rom any. . >> in 2008, fred thompson, the former senator, he was going to

ride to the rescue, in 2004, remember wes clark? the white nigknights are not als what they are cracked up to be. but michele bachmann has kind of disappeared. she's trying to get herself back into the conversation. now she's coming back. >> that's the point, who would have thought we would have ever said michele bachmann's having a

hard time getting attention. but let's think about this for a second. she had dialled down her rhetoric, she had propelled to the top in iowa, she was able to kind of coast there. she peaked in ames, and she really was able to do what she could there. but the fact of the matter remains, now are we going to start to see her go back to some of that far flung rhetoric. >> it is dangerous if she does, because then she looks like she's not electable. and that's the whole reason why she's dialled it back. and you know it wasn't just the irs, yesterday she mentioned enron and how likening the federal government to enron. that's going to play well with the base, it's going to fire up a lot of folks, but when you look at the literal compare son of that, it's not a lil' trat comparison, she said the sheriff's going to come knock and your door, the sheriff isn't going to come knock on your door. but the fact is, people are upset with the fed, they're upset with the government, upset

with washington but that kind of rhetoric maybe goes too far and makes her look unelectable. >> i will be reading as soon as i get off the air, first reads, everyone else should be reading it. you've got a preview. his republican rivals are on the campaign trial and president obama has begun his vacation on martha's vineyard. nbc's kristen welker is there. what's the president's plan today? >> reporter: well, nothing on the president's public schedule so we're guessing perhaps some golf, maybe a strip to get some ice cream with the girls. he arrived here last night, greeted folks and then headed off to the blue herren farm. even though there's going to be a lot of r & r on this vacation, it's also a working vacation.

the president will be in constant contact with h-- he'll also be working on that big jobs proposal that he'll be unveiling after labor day. and as you know, and as you just mentioned the republicans have really been hammering him for taking this vacation. and sarah palin on the airwaves calling on him to cancel his vacation, this is not a choice that he would nak. look the office of the presidency really travelled with mr. obama wherever he goes. and they also make the point that he's a husband and a father, and he needs to have some quality time with his family, and they don't think the american people will begrudge him at that time. the white house does need to think about appearances, they need to make it clear that this really is a working vacation for many obama, but, chris, presidents have been criticized for taking vacations throughout times so this is certainly a conversation we'll be having

again. >> thank you, and it's of course worth noting that former elector governor sarah palin was someone who quit her job in the middle of it. we're expecting another rough ride on wall street, following yesterday's 418-point drop. european stocks are near two-year lows and u.s. futures are down as well. andrew circuit joins me with a preview. >> we don't have good news today, i'm aflayed to say, a couple of things we're watching, obviously the selloff in asia, but j.w. morgan out this morning lowering their estimates of our growth down to 1%. bank of america is slashing it's employees and it's cutting its labor by 35 money people. the big question on a friday, historically is how investors

want to get into the weekend, considering that there could be new data and also to different political things that may happen over the weekend. so it's, i hate to say, not great at the moment. andrew, is this the new normal, i feel like every day the stock market is either up 400 points or down 400 points. are we headed for a day of extended period of volatility? >> we are going to be in this extended period of volatility until something happens in europe. what happens to sman, what happens to italy and the folks holding that bag in france and germany and the hopes -- i this there's going to be big questions about what happens in the stock market every day. up next, high noon in the lone star state, texas

congressman lloyd dog get, he wants americans to get to know the real rick perry. summertime is supposed to mean fun in the sun but maybe not if you're president of a country. president obama may not be the only one feeling the heat for his summer vacation. > [ male announcer ] this is coach parker... whose non-stop day starts with back pain... and a choice. take advil now and maybe up to four in a day. or choose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain. way to go, coach. ♪ way to go, coach. you could save a bundle with geico's multi-policy discount. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance.

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rick myrrh -- trying to work both sides of the room, talking

jobs and the economy while also shoring up his conservative credentials. home state critics however say just because it works in texas doesn't mean it will play to a national audience. joining us now from austin, democratic congressman loyal doggett. you and rick perry have had a long history. he used to be a democrat just like. you. why have you taken it on your yourself to go on and educate people about what your impressions of perry have been. as you have noticed, he has put his boot in his mouth a couple of times this week.

now with our economy having so many problems, i just don't think he has a formula other than tall texas tales about how to get america moving again. >> rick perry is someone, i know you know this. but this guy has never lost an election. he's won state wide, he's won in a west texas state house seat, he's won for governor, what explains his electoral success if as you say this is a guy who talks a big game but doesn't do things. >> well, that tough talk and appealing to the extremes has been a formula for success here in texas, even against a very conservative united states senator who challenged him for governor, he's always willing to take another leap to the right. i think taking outrageous statements and moving to the extremes has worked for him in texas and i think it can work for him in the republican

primary. the harm he has caused to our education system and his inability to come up with a winning strategy for jobs, i believe that will hurt him if he does win the nomination andck perry, nor do i under estimate his ability to talk around this jobs problem. i believe we need a strong plan, and all he offers is to do less, the same old formula that got us into this mess under the last tex texan who was a governor.

>> would rick perry be a better president or a worst president than george w. bush in your estimation? >> it would be a tough compare son. rick perry has problems, but the formula of less law enforcement on wall street, and the lower taxes, that doesn't work to get our economy moving, it got us into the problems we have now. rick perry wants to per sue the same policy just talk tougher and go more extreme than george bush did. >> congressman, i want to ask you one other thing, you've been a primary shaping up in texas next year for your own seat. is that for your seat or is that about the changing demographics of your state? >> i think it's all about rick perry actually. rick perry drew his districts to get rid of me. split my district in five pieces because i stood up for texas schools. he wanted to take federal money and essentially use it to plug the state budget gap that his

mismanagement created. i wanted to see it actually get into the classroom and it became very clear that if i stood by the amendment and protected the schools, rick perry was going to mess up my district. i'm going to beat him at his own game. uniting austin and san antonio will give me an opportunity to work with some people and provide the same kind of representation across that district that i provided to my neighbors here in austin. if governor perry didn't think i could win among my neighbors, he wouldn't have denied so many of them an opportunity to vote in the election. >> rick perry's not the only candidate zeroing in on south carolina, though, it's shaping up as the next battleground between the texas governor and his republican rival michele bachmann, nbc news campaign imbed shelly weinberg has been covering this state for weeks and she joins us live. >> good morning, chris. >> tell us what's going on down there. >> as any republican junky here

can tell you, south carolina has been picking the republican presidential nominee since 1980. so rick perry and michele bachmann are definitely taking that to heart. if you recall, rick perry announced his presidential bid from charleston, south carolina last week and he's going to be returning today for a two-day swing, including a stop with the south carolina republican party, he's going to be doing a fundraising luncheon today, around noon in columbia, the capital city, to raise money for the republican party's efforts in holding the state's primary. michele bachmann today is finishing up a three-day swing where she's kind of coffvered t state from top to bottom. today she heads to the coastal area where it's worth noting that there's a lot of northeastern retirees that come into that area of myrtle beach, hilton head and michele bachmann

is also going to be in mt. pleasant. it's a different kind of republican voter that she's going to be trying to target there today, chris. >> always a fascinating statement, presidential race. this sunday on "meet the press," daily rundown along savannah guthrie will be filling in for david gregory. she'll have two exclusive interviews. robert gibbs, indiana governor mitch daniels, that's this sunday on nbc's "meet the press." check your local listings. russia's vladimir putin is spending his summer vacation fishing and scuba da booifing. but other world leaders aren't so lucky. up next, the touchy topic of taking time off. plus a good will game goes bad. a basket brawl breaks out in china. yes, that is my alma mater

georgetown hoyas in the middle of an international incident. but first today's trivia question, how many sitting presidents have vacationed on martha's vineyard. they started great surf boards out of a farm in maine. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.

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call the number on your screen now... and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan. you'll get this free information kit... and guide to understanding medicare, to help you choose the plan that's right for you. as with all medicare supplement plans, you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare, get help paying for what medicare doesn't... and save up to thousands of dollars. call this toll-free number now. president obama has got mpb his share of flack for going on vacation in the middle of an economic crisis. he's not alone, foreign leaders are getting the same treatment. nbc's michelle kozinsky is live in london. >> hey, chris, yeah, you know, it just depends on what's going on at home, what the economy is doing and here is prime minister had to cut his tuscan get away short, because of rioting in the streets. others are being blasted for taking any time off in this

economy. but it's a tough bausiness because you're trying to take a break. but everybody's going to be watching what they wear, what they do, where they go, what they read and that it will be scrutinized and criticized. when is a relaxing summer get away not relaxing at all? when you're a world leader and folks are either yelling you shouldn't be away at all or watching your every move. they tend to not even really look like holidays, more photo-op than fun fest. who could forget much as you may want to, the clinton's swim wear dance or russian primary of adventure, vladimir putin. yes, the kremlin has treated us to all of his shirtless forcing, river battling, butterflying, ancient urn diving, jude owe

pummeling, blacksmithing, gun shooting, plane flying good fun. this week with the russian president, racing speedboats, braving murky depths, catching fish and superpower lead man acting outfits. how is a british prime minister supposed to compete? and with the european economy crumbling, germany's chance for skewered for strolling spain's france's nikolai sarkozy was seen -- who also digs the occasional thrill ride with putin, cut his summer fun short. >> if you're -- you have time

for a holiday a rest when you get booted out of office. you're only in favor for a very short time. you need to take as much as you can to help the country because when you're gone, you're gone. >> now to some the best look vacation pictures are the ones that don't exist. i kind of like it when the summer reading is sort of conspicuously displayed like, why yes, i am reading kamu, but they have to strike a balance, things can't look too perfect or they can't let their hair down either or they'll never hear the end of it, chris. >> who could get enough of vladimir putin. still ahead after another big down day on wall street, we'll take you live to the opening bell. and with rebels closing in on tripoli, is moammar gadhafi getting ready to run. why his reign of terror could be over in a matter of days. and don't forget, the nbc news

politico republican debate at the reagan library is coming up, wednesday september 7 right here at 7:00 eastern. ♪ okay, so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. that's yours. lower cholesterol. lower cholesterol. i'm yummy. lower cholesterol. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste? honey nut cheerios. want whole grain oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios. it's a win win. good? [ crunching, sipping ] be happy. be healthy. can i try yours? be happy. be healthy. a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately.

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welcome back to the daily rundown, i'm chris cillizza, the opening bell had just rung in the trading day at the new york stock exchange. 114 points coming of of a 119 loss. other stories making headlines. at least ten people are dead after an attack on a british compound in kabul this morning. t taliban insurgents struck with two suicide attacks. a five-hour long siege and gun battle ensued. the dead included one member of the u.n. special forces and a

number of afghan police. look at this exhibition game between my georgetown basketball team and a china pro team in beijing yesterday, the fight erupted near the end of an already scrappy game. the georgetown team ended up leaving the floor all together after the dust cleared. nbc news has learned that embattled leader moammar gadhafi may be seeking to leave libya. u.s. intelligence indicates that gadhafi and his family could be gone in days. we're joined now by nbc's chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. >> chris, there is increasing intelligence that gadhafi is actually in the process of making preparations to get himself and his entire family out of libya. one official actually suggested that it could happen been a matter of days. now it's not clear where gadhafi

may eventually end up, but we may at least stop in viennese first. have been saying for the past week or so that it appears that gadhafi would eventually end up in venezuela, but all of that is unclear. now there's no -- but i can tell you that there has been increasing optimism among many high ranking u.s. officials. and it may be that he's made the decision, if he's going to survive this time, it will be somewhere else but libya, chris. mick, thanks for the great reporting as always. the obama administration officially called for syria's

president as sad to step down after months of violence in the country. >> this morning president obama called on assaad to step aside. and now the strongest set of sanctions to date targeting the syrian government. the transition to democracy in syria has begun and it's time for assaad to get out of the way. >> for his part, assad told the world his violent crackdown has -- have reportedly killed four protesters in the southern part of the country today. joining us now, a fellow at the u.s. institute of peace and the author of the new book, rock the casbah, also the director of the washington institute. why now? i think that's a question everyone's asking, five months, the obama administration has been monitoring, why now do it,

why now call for him to step down? >> the tragedy is that you have to reach a critical mass in terms of what's happening on the ground, how many people have died, how outrageous is the behavior, and most importantly, how united is the international community, but of the things that distinguishes the bush administration on the obama administration. the obama -- has tried to rally any international players, whether it's the saudis, the europeans, the canadians, the european union, the united nations, in order to make sure that they all have enough pressure, because sanctions alone aren't going to bring down assaad. >> and mike, what are the next steps? what do the next steps look like here? and he essentially said the crackdown is over, obviously the situation on the ground suggests that's not true. what do we and what does the world community to robin's point do next? >> it was a ligslightly differe

view on why it took so long. you would actually just stay and so every day that he remains in power is sort of a victory for us right now because it's in defiance of the united states. because they have been burned a little bit in libya. now the next steps, are they really urgently need to get some more international sanctions in place. probably what happened yesterday was not the ideal scenario for the obama administration. not just call for assaad to step down at the same time. so they real have you and especially russia which is still selling weapons to the regime is still selling sanctions. >> i'll put on my political hat which i wear most of the time anyway. how much of it -- obviously a ramping up of violence during ramadan in syria since august 1. >> i don't think the vacation had anything to do with it. i think there was actually a move in the works, it was trying to make sure that you have the saudis last week t king who's

one of the most discrete diplomats in the world. warning syria to stop the killing machine, pull back or face chaos. that you have the europeans willing to take tough actions and the europeans are really the most important buyers of syrian oil. so this sanctions move will have an impact, but the europeans really are critical of the next step. >> mike, you mentioned, we were talking about next steps, do we have any sense, let's say assaad steps aside. do we have any sense of what syria looks like then? >> we have just seen the -- try to really get themselves organized. before we had all these different groups, different executive committees and so forth. and i think they realize at this point that that was not really building confidence in the international community that we could sort of have faith in what was going to happen after assaad. so the fact is, no, we don't know what's going to follow and a lot of people are very worry about what is going to follow.

i think that's what they need to do. >> obviously we'll talk about next steps so we'll continue to develop robin wright and mike -- thanks for taking time for us on a friday. you're looking live pictures here of rick perry in south carolina. we'll analyze perry's challenge as he tries to walk the fine line between the tea party and the establishment. plus, look out scott brown. elizabeth warren takes a big step toward challenging the massachusetts republican. but first, the white house soup of the day, gumbo. i could go for a little bit of gumbo today. you're watching the daily rundown. it's only on msnbc. [ female announcer ] so you think your kids are getting enough vegetables? maybe not. v8 v-fusion juice gives them a full serving of vegetables

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tomorrow, rig perry would have been in the republican presidential race for a week. and some are worried about having him on top of the ticket in 2012. you can't be calling bernanke a traitor and you can't be questioning whether or not barack loves america. new hampshire congressman charles bass said intimating -- not going to create more confidence in voters about you. and from a guy in charge of rounding up republican votes in the house, illinois congressman pete roskam, that's not something you want to lead with if you want republicans to come your way. editor and chief of -- jennifer palm merry is a former white house press secretary, now president of the center for american progress action fund

and michael steele, the former chairman of the republican national committee. mr. chairman, i'm going to start with you, we're going the stalk about republicans shooting republicans. i don't know if you have noticed. >> i have never experienced it. what is the -- what do you make of this? is rick perry a potential problem for your party if he's the nominee. >> there's two things here, one, this is august of 2011. if we're talking august of 2012 and these comments come out. there may be some legitimate concern because independent voters are paying attention at that point. number two, rick perry wasn't talk to any of those members that you mentioned. most people in washington think you're talking to them. there's a larger audience out there and perry was talking to that audience. and the people it needed to resonate with.

jennifer palmeri, i want to talk about rick perry talk about evolution and come back and revisit this. >> it's a theory that is out there that's got some gaps in it. but in texas we teach goethe creationism and evolution in our schools. >> ask him why he doesn't believe in science. >> i hear you're smart enough to figure out which one is right. >> a 7-year-old kid was being asked about evolution being prompted by the mom. but it gets at a real point, even if this was a little stajd, clearly. >> right. >> is saying it's a theory out there? this is a concern that some republicans had going in, is this something that republicans are going to seize on? >> if rick perry were going to be the nominee, unfortunately for us i don't think he will be the nominee. but if you see, i think you'll talk about what huntsman's response to that was, but you do see with the three members of

congress, huntsman pushing back, i think there's a lot of concern in your party about just how far right it's gone. but i think that it helps democrats when you see things like this, but i don't think that's going to end up as the nominee. >> john huntsman yesterday tweeted, to be cheer, i believe in evolution and trust call me crazy. huntsman got a little bit more aggressive. he's still about 1% in the tolls. fwe tweeting an attack out is not actually going on television, it's a negative ad. we are going to see a fight over evolution and global warming? >> i don't think so because i think the top tier that everyone's talking about is mitt romney, michele bachmann and we don't really cover what rick santorum says. >> is that where john huntsman is, is he rick santorum?

>> i think he's in the second tier, he got a little buzz when he came out, and sitting there sorting the clips in the morning, i saw a number of clips about huntsman when he started up. i saw more clips about a freshman member of congress getting a challenge in the primary than i did about john huntsman, he's simply not gotten the traction, whereas rick perry, it's been a week now. >> we are going to go to break now, do you buy the top tier michele bachmann, mitt romney, rick perry, is that conventional wisdom or is it right? >> that's the working tier. i think there's still some room there for growth, with some candidates. whether or not they politically elevate themselves of where they're going to be contenders, newt gingrich -- policy spin in the conversation, for example now, whether or not that gets them to the point where he's going to be side by side on that stage politically remains to be

seen. there's a lot of travel time between where we are now and november and december. >> we always mistake that people, regular people are paying attention as closely as we are. >> we'll be back. even chuck todd is out there. >> we're here with you. >> we'll be back with the panel shortly. but first, trivia time. we asked how many sitting u.s. presidents have vacationed on martha's vineyard. the answer, three. barack obama, we knew that one, bill clinton, we knew that one, b other presidents such as kennedy, nixon and calvin coolidge visited the island, but not during their presidencies. [] why do relationships matter? [ grandpa ] relationships are the basis of everything. [ grandma ] relationships are life... if you don't have that thing that fills your heart and your soul, you're missing that part of your life that just fulfills you. ♪

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there it is. [ man ] so i used mine to get a whole new perspective. ♪ [ male announcer ] the new citi thankyou premier card gives you more ways to earn points. what's your story? citi can help you write it. you're not out of the race for the senate because massachusetts beckons? >> massachusetts does beckon in the sense that it's my home and

i need to go home. and when i go home, i'll do more thinking then. >> presumably, you are up to speed on the red sox, red sox nation and all the other things that really trapped the last democrat to run against scott brown? >> i'll do my -- i think it's important to stay up with all the teams all the time. >> that was elizabeth warren a month ago, promising our colleague, andrea mitchell she'll never say curt schilling is a yankees fan. we'll hold her to that. conservatives blocked the treasury official from leaving the new consumer protection bureau, but now she's announced a senate exploratory committee and tells nbc she'll make a final decision shortly after labor day. if and when she runs, she'll take the first republican senator to run in massachusetts in almost four decades. let's bring in our panel. jennifer, let's talk about elizabeth warren. this is somebody who is in the

obama administration. it certainly looks like -- >> no one forms an exploratory committee on august 18th and says after labor day i'm not running. >> what do you make of her as a candidate, not just as an administration official? how will she wear? >> well, she has a lot of fans. she's very talented. she does great in front of audiences. but she has a schtick. it's one dimensional. she -- progressives love her. i don't know how well she'll do on the stump. when members of congress push back on her, when she testified, she did not respond well and my bloggers are going to attack me on these things. >> that will save them time from attacking me, which is good. reed, you look at this on paper,

it's massachusetts, democrats seem like they're going to settle on elizabeth warren. there's a big field, but they seem to be behind elizabeth warren. can she win this race? >> i think she can win. there's a difference between being a liberal, being a progressive and being a democrat, especially in a place like massachusetts. south boston, you've got a lot of blue collar working types and especially out in western massachusetts. the nrsc brought up a really funny point yesterday. the photo on her campaign website is looking at boston from cambridge. and i thought that was -- they said, oh, is that her world? >> and that may not play. >> exactly. she has to be from a place where they put salary in their catchup, like south boston. >> chairman, this is a race that democrats need to be a referendum on scott brown. he's a republican in a democratic state. does elizabeth warren give your party the opportunity to make

this a fair fight? >> it's going to be about elizabeth warren and president obama. and i think that the republic republicans, despite the fact that it's massachusetts and i would agree with my friend over here, reed, that it's not a foregone conclusion just because it's boston, just because it's new england that this is going to be an automatic for the democrats. they're going to have to work hard. scott brown has already realized that and he's beginning now to lay down that metal. it will be a great race to watch. >> and for democrats, one of the very few opportunities. >> the senate is trending republican right now. >> my favorite part of any show, reed, go. >> as much as it pains me to do it, i have to say, your guys are down in china, that's amazing. >> we're down to three georgetown references in one hour of live television. >> i want to warn first time republican candidates, when you're in south carolina, stay away from the great barbecue place, maurices, the place with

the anti-segregation literature. don't do that as an off the record drop box. >> same with plug, next weekend is a great weekend. we open the martin luther king memorial and i want to thank harry johnson as his leadership as president of the foundation. he's done a phenomenal job of getting this project done. i was there for the ground breaking. i'll be there next week and this is quite an honor. >> thank you, everyone, for j n joining me. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." enjoy your weekend. we'll see you back here monday at 9:00 a.m. coming up next 910:00 a.m., it's chris jansing & company. [ woman ] welcome back, jogging stroller.

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good morning. i'm chris jansing. fears that the economy is dangerously teetering on the edge of recession are freaking out the markets again. take a look. stocks down once more this morning after the dow plunged

nearly 400 points or rather 4% yesterday on a slew of gloomy reports on the economy. i'm joined now by cnbc's senior analyst ron insana. good morning. >> good morning, chris. >> where are we right now? investors are so spooked by any bad news or bad feeling that it sparks a sell-off? >> yeah. well, you know, we had a rough night against in asia and europe. something like -- something akin to a lehman like moment in europe where there are worries about the health of the banks and that is spreading to the u.s. we have opened lower, down 100 points at the worst and 105 points and rallied back a little bit. technology turning positive. we're going to have to see if we can get a turn around friday out of all this, but that remains to be seen. >> i know there's a technical sort of definition for recession. but if you talk to the average american, they're not e