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tripoli in the crosshairs. rebels closing in. we bring you the latest from libya next on msnbc sunday. also ahead, irene on the move. a tropical storm threatening to muscle up to hurricane strength and wallop the coastline of florida. plus, ranking the republicans, the candidates coming up big and coming up small, and then the wedding bells. celebrities shine. it is a marriage made, you know it, for reality tv. we're talking about the kardashians. hi, everybody. i'm thomas roberts if today for alex witt. welcome to "msnbc sunday." it's 9:00 in the east and 6:00 in the west. we start with the attacks on the libyan capital of tripoli. mortar rounds and gun fire were heard in the capital last night. they were attacking in coordination with flight owe air support and if confirmed it would be the first time in the

six--month-old uprising that the libyan capital has come under assault. richard edge cengle is in libya the latest. >> reporter: good morning, thomas. the battle for tripoli has begun. we are in the city of zawia and they've been moving through here to establish a front line they've established 15 miles in the outsdikirts of tripoli. behind that front line, inside the city of tripoli itself, thomas, there is also fighting pockets of resistance in several neighborhoods in trip lie including one just about 500 yards from moammar gadhafi's presidential palace. so we can confirm that there is fighting in tripoli itself including right on the doorstep of gadhafi's palace. gadhafi himself gave an audio speech last night in which he denied that the rebels are making this kind of progress. to quote him, he said that the rats have been eliminated, but

clearly, from what we've been able to see the fighting is advancing. it is advancing very quickly and it is building strength in the center of tripoli. thomas? >> nbc's richard engle in libya for us. thanks so much. joining me from washington to discuss the situation in libya is general barry mccaffrey. sir, nice to see you. from your estimation, how can you explain how we're seeing the evolvement of the rebel forces in libya? >> a lot of allegations floating around, thomas. one that there are some 600 fighters that have been infiltrated into tripoli itself. they're now rising up. there was huge fighting on saturday night and in another report, the rebels are stating that they have a 1,000-person brigade that will enters tripoli and try to take over the security of the capital and it remains to be seen. what we will expect, though is with 2 million people in tripoli and many of them gadhafi

supporters that there will be chaos when the regime final lly falls and it looks inevitable that they're starting to come apart with senior defections and no longer effectively resisting on the outskirts of tripoli. >> what do you think this means? do you think this means that gadhafi forces are weaker or the rebels are stronger? >> there's a momentum of the psychology of these kinds of things. i think it was very important that we start to see people in the inner ring of the gadhafi circle now on tv, al jazeera tv, from italy, from egypt talking about the end of the regime. so either we should expect to see gadhafi murdered by his own people or he'll probably flee in the coming days, weeks, to one of the african companies that have supplied mercenary fighters to keep him in power. >> do you think he could stay in power? i know we talked about this a

lot. he's been very elusive in the fact that he has been able to stay in power not just through this uprising, but for so many years in power there? >> you're right. he's been in power more than 40 years, but there is a despised regime. he's from a minority tribe. i think there's a tremendous groundswell of opposition. all he had going for him was oil money which he used fairly effectively to keep the tribes separated. >> general barry mccaffrey, it's nice to see you this morning, sir. i appreciate your time. >> good to be with you, thomas. white house officials say even though the president is vacationing on martha's vineyard he is being briefed on the developments in libya. kristen welker is traveling with the president joining us from marketsa's vineyard. president obama balancing work andvation. i know they've always said the white house travels with the president whoever the president is and wherever he goes. >> that's right.

president obama according to white house officials was briefed on the developing situation in libya as well as the situation with the american hikers who were detained in iran. so far, no statement on either of those situations and white house officials are insisting that this is a working vacation. so a lot of images that we're getting out of this vacation sort of proved that. the president has gotten some pushback particularly from presidential candidates who say given the state of the economy this is the wrong place and wrong time to be taking a vacation. white house officials say the office of the presidency travels with mr. obama wherever he goes and he's getting briefings from the morning from his team and his chief economic advisers will be traveling to martha's vineyard in this coming week. still, we didn't get a lot of look at him yesterday. it was sort of a lay low day. we got a glimpse of his motorcade, though, leaving a social event sort of early evening. he was at charles ogiltree's

house, a harvard professor. that was the only glimpse we've had. no word yet today and we're trying to track him and fry to catch another glimpse of him. >> kristen walker. it's a picturesque. they have the chance to appeal an eight-year prison sentence handed down from high cure the. ali arouzi joins us now. the prosecution is saying what today about this decision? >> reporter: the tehran's chief prosecutor confirmed that decision today. he said he confirmed the eight year sentence, five years for espionage, three years for illoolly entering the country. he also mentioned sarah shourd. he said she didn't come back for her trial and the court is deciding what to do to her and

they mi try her in absentia. all is not lost in this eight-year sentence. if we look at past track records and people given harsh sentences our iranians, who were given eight-year sentences exactly like these two men have appealed and they've been let off and they've commuted the sentence and they've been let off. the key point to bear in mind is the end of ramadan is in ten days and they could be pardoned in about 10, 12 days' time when prisoners are traditionally pardoned and relations between the united states and iran are so bad. iran isn't in the business of doing favors for the united states so they are in the next two eaks. thomas? >> if they point out they could be released on compassionate grounds. ali arouzi in tehran. good to see you. thanks. tropical depression harvey is drenching central america.

the next tropical storm front may pay a dangerous visit up north. current projections show that there is a chance that irene could make landfall on florida as early as friday. irene is currently a tropi chac could be reaching huicane-state status before getting to the states and the weather channel's alex wallace is monitoring the storms from atlanta. bring us up to speed. >>a absolutely. still following irene churning its way through the eastern caribbean. there it is working its way around the leeward islands. current sustained winds and 50 mile per hour winds and that pace should slow down as we work our way through time and here's that projected path of irene and by the time we get into the early morning hours of tomorrow it could be approaching hurricane status and we'll keep an eye on this, but once it works through the islands we'll start see the wind speeds getting ripped apart and by the

end of the week, potentially seeing a category 1 hurricane getting close south florida. so now's the time to prepare in south florida. we have a rapid map here and florida is now in that orange color, medium threat, for dealing with irene. so still several days to watch this thing, but florida and parts of the southeast certainly need to keep a head's up on things as irene gets closer and closer. for today, the immediate threat and storms around the east coast will be watching that from new england, damaging winds and hail and those would be the main threat snoops so it was supposed to be a pair of aerial acrobatics and then tragedy. >> the full story for you, and the campaign trail changes up her stump speech to make herself more appealing to the people and there's growing frustration in the search for jobs across america. what can the president do to put americans back to work?

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in kansas city, missouri, a small plane crashed while performing a stunt at the kansas city air show. the pilot was tragically killed. this happened saturday afternoon and it was shot by a 12-year-old all on a cell phone. the video shows a red byplane at the end of the a maneuver, tailing downward and nosediving into a grass field. to the campaign trail now and michele bachmann trying to broaden her base of support instead of a week-long victory lap after wing the iowa straw poll, bachmann found herself in the shadow of rick perry's campaign speech. >> we are conservatives in this audience. good to see you.

we need social conservatives. do we have fiscal conservatives today in this audience? we do. do we have national security conservatives in this audience? we do. any tea party conservatives in this audience? oh! >> david katz is a national political reporter for politico and joins me now. good to see you this morning. when we talk about what's going on with michele bachmann you heard the louders cheers fr ere the tea party. do you think now it will work for her or is it too late? >> it's going to be tough because michele bachmann is encountering what a lot of the new candidate s encounter. she came out as a bottle rocket of excitement for voters and now she's competing with rick merpe because she's not the latest product on the shelf.

she'll appeal to the tea party and evangelical voters and he has a record of accomplishment in texas and republican voters think he is more the hybrid candidate that can appeal to mainstream republicans and tea party republicans and she is trying to say, hey, i'm still out here. >> david, rick perry and michele bachmann had campaigns with different styles and bachmann on the stage for all of her events and she's made a habit of appearing more like a rock star to the crowds and rick perry has held a lot of meet and greets and smaller venues. what does it tell you about the way that the candidates are running? is it the fact that he's just ramping up and that michele bachmann has been out there for a long time and has more experience especially on the gop presidential campaign? >> that's only a part of it. he's been in the race a week now and she has been a few months and she's getting a reputation for having an entourage around her and there have been

incidents with reporters and security trying to get close to michele bachmann. that has been an issue on the campaign trail? will that matter to voters in the end? i'm not sure, but voters who want access, what want to ask the question to get close to the candidate that does matter to the individual voters in those early states of iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. >> david n your opinion, who do you think poses the biggest threat to president obama right now. who is his main competition? right now the obama administration would more like to run against michele bachmann and you would have to say rick perry and remember, he's a new guy on the show and he has said some controversial things that are garnering headlines. so i think we need more time to really know how he plays out over a few months from now. will we be able to answer the question?

i don't know, but right now per set bigger threat to the president. >> we'll see how it all plays out. david, good to see you. >> thank you. in long beach, california, it was a competition of might to raise money for special olympics. 31 teams taking part in the fedex plane pull. each team battling to see who could pull a fedex jet 12 feet in the shortest time when each plane weighs 200,000 pounds. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a living, breathing intelligence that's helping people rethink how they live. ♪ in here, video games are not confined to screens. ♪ excuse me, hi. my grandfather lived in this village. [ woman speaking italian ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language.

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it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. [ whistle ] with copd, i thought i might miss out on my favorite tradition. now symbicort significantly improves my lung function, starting within 5 minutes. and that makes a difference in my breathing. today i'm back with my favorite team. ask your doctor about symbicort. i got my first prescription free. call or click to learn more. [ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. verizon workers are leaving the picket line and returning to work, but that doesn't mean that the verizon strike is over. the company and the union have agreed to settle on some key issues in the dispute and they're going to bargain further. in the meantime, both sides agreed verizon's 45,000 employees should go back to work starting tomorrow night. the president is facing

growing criticism over unemployment for members of his base and from the congressional black cause us. white house staffers say the president plans to unveil new jobs measures when he gets back to washington, but in the meantime as he vacations on martha's vineyard, thousands of americans are printing out fresh resumes to bring to a massive job fair in miami tomorrow. i am joined by jeff johnson, he's a contributor to msnbc and the grillyo.com. what are the main concerns of the people that you've been able to talk to, the ones that are stretching literally around the blocks to show up to these events. >> i think the major concern above all else is so many employers don't seem to be hiring the unemployed and that's a big issue for the employers and those looking for work as well as the congressional black caucus and there are those concerned not being able to fife find jobs over the age of 50, looking for continuing education and job skills training and you can throw a dart and hit a

concern with the thousands of people coming to these job fairs. >> as you talk about the people over 50 and they're 99ers and the people that have maxed out on 99 weeks of unemployment. i imagine there's hope in the air and desperation from people who just want to find work, that the skill set that they offer? >> and hope is one of the things that keeps these people coming to job fairs like these, and i think the congressional black caucus has been successful from the standpoint that they've been able to get 200 employers in cleveland, 70 employers in atlanta to be able to come out nearly 70 employers in detroit to come out and those employers can't show up at the job fairs unless they actually have jobs to give. so while every person doesn't walk out with a job, there are at least people saying i talked to two people in atlanta that both got hired right on the spot at the job fair. and so that at least is showing some level of hope for these thousands of people that are out of work.

>> the bridge that's being created for the potential is great, but when we talk about the national average for african-americans who are out of work it's over 16%. are any of the people at the fairs talking about their direct criticism for the white house. do they blame the president and do they blame this administration? >> i think they're looking for both congress and the president to do more. i whafrng we saw this week with maxine waters saying will you unleash us on the president, i think it was taken out of context. what i'm hearing from the congressional black caucus and those unemployed is we continue to support president obama, but we want to see more done. so i think people are very excited about what the president may say, but they also want to make sure the congressional black caucus engages the white house with the very concerns coming out of these job fairs to be able to ensure that urban america and the unemployed in urban america are represented when president obama makes his announcement in september.

what kind of jobs are the people potentially seeking at these fairs? what are the companies that are there and what do they have to offer? >> the interesting thing is there's a huge government sector represented. i think in each of the town hall meetings -- or each of the job fairs government sector jobs outweighed all those others, but you have those in manufacturing like coca-cola, you had technology, like ibm and at&t. there's a broad range, but one of the biggest concerns of many that are there and congressman cleaver, chairman of the congressional black caucus mentioned this during the job fair in atlanta. they need to make sure there are more entry-level job available because so many people coming there are looking for entry-level jobs and not middle-management jobs and they're trying to create that partnership as they move forward. >> good to see you this morning. thanks. >> thank you. the latest on libya where the rebels are getting closer to taking control on tripoli. also a court ruling that

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to read and consider carefully before investing. welcome back. developing now, attacks on the libyan capital of tripoli. mortar rounds and gun fire were heard in the city last night and if confirmed this would be the first time in the six-month-old uprising that the libyan capital has come under assault. joining me on the road is leila fattal, can you tell me what's the latest you heard? i know you're in transit right now. >> reporter: well, overnight there were several uprisings in tripoli. they went up until 4:00 a.m. and by dawn the city had become relatively quiet. dissidents inside tripoli that were reached by phone said they expected that gadhafi would retaliate today with his forces that many of the entrances and

the exits of the city are sealed off and they would like the rebel forces from the southwest and east to try to storm the city. there are reports that electricity is out in tripoli right now according to opposition leaders in touch with people in tripoli. >> leila, as you're talking about the electricity issues going in tripoli right now. what about the people themselves are they tnguprising? >> well, i think that's still really unclear. right now we're seeing sporadic upridings in neighborhood, but it is unclear whether there is a united uprising in tripoli. it is unclear if this will take days or take hours. the eastern part of the city which was known for having more dissidents against gadhafi is more in control of the rebels. they say they have control there, but still the center of the city is in gadhafi's control

a and there is no sign he's willing to relinquish power. he gave a speech last night by phone on state television calling on his followers to go forward and blaming nato and the gulf countries for destroying libya and calling all of these rebel forces traitors against libya. >> by doing that address on state tv by phone gives people the indication they don't know where gaed of ay is, leaving them to speculate that he's out of tripoli and out of the country. >> that's right. opposition leaders said they felt that he did not appear in television because he might not be in tripoli. he does feel he is targeted. so it is unclear. nobody knows where he is. rumors are circulating constantly about him, fleeing the country and going south of the city. really nobody knows who he is and he has aren't appeared live in the capital for a long time

now. >> leila fadel, thank you. president assad will comments on demands that he should step down. will be assad's fourth public appearance since the revolt against his family's 40-year rule erupted in march. >> in mexico, incredible video as shots ring out during a soccer match. players scramble off the field into soccer rooms while fans ran on to the field spain, more tha

million young people attended a mass celebrated by pope benedict. he is wrapping up his four-day visit for the catholic church's world youth day. he encouraged them to become missionaries for the faith. americans on both sides of the immigration debate are trying to figure out what's next for people who are in the u.s. and are here illegally. now that a major change has been announced in the enforcement of deportations on thursday. the white house and the department of homeland security announced that undocumented workers will now be allowed to stay in the u.s. and apply for work permits as long as they don't have a criminal record. chris cobalk is secretary of state of kansas and raul is columnist. as immigration rights advocate you call this law a terrific step in the right direction. critics of the new direction say it's amnesty.

lay out both sides to us. >> i think it's a good idea because what it is is it is an incremental step toward a solution to the problem. it allows 200,000 people to go before a judge and have their case reviewed and that's good because we're prior tieitizing law enforcement resources and that makes our community safer. we don't have the manpower to support the 11 million people already here. the u.s. government say it costs $12,500 to deport one person. so what we're doing is going after the people who deserve to be deported, drug traffickers, domestic abusers and all sort of gangsters and that's where the resources should be going. that's a practical solution and it's a step in the right direction. >> chris, there is measurable progress when it comes to the border issue and this is according to stats that were compile by the arizona republic. board an prehedges is down 36% from the fiscal year of 2008 to 2010 at the same time, drug

seizures were up 38%. migrant deaths were up 38% this compared to last year. isn't this new step a nod to reality in doing what's best for u.s. security? >> well, i don't think so. you have to think about doing what's best for u.s. jobs as we heard in the segment before the break. you've got the job fair and up to 20 million americans out of work. the last thing you want to do is if the president takes seriously xhiending jobs for americans and you don't want to keep the jobs that would go to u.s. citizens if they left. he said this allows the cases to go forward to an immigration judge and that is incorrect. what they're going to announce is they'll short serb circuit. and say even though we've visited $10,000, and having the preliminary immigration hearings, we'll just drop the case because we don't think it should enforce everything, and

it's's waste of u.s. taxpayer money and it says to workers too bad, we'll let the illegal aliens keep these jobs and we're not going open them for you. >> do you think the job fairs will be hiring people who don't have legal rights to be here. we're talking about major corporations like coca-cola that are at the job fair that you're talking. >> no, there are jobs currently occupied and already held by will lil aliens estimate up to 6 million to 7 million jobs. those jobs would open up if they were encouraged to leave. >> the jobs occupied by so many undocumented immigrants they're picking strawberries and they're in the agricultural industry and at the low end of the service industry, they're cleaning bathrooms and janitors and those are jobs that americans are not like up to do and they've seen that in the state of georgia where they were cracking down in the industry and the result that many of the crops are lying in

the fields and there's no one to pick them and they're unable to attract workers. >> that is incorrect. >> it allows people to go before a judge and have their case heard. >> they don't go before judgees. >> it's incremental and it's moving us forward which is what the american people want. time and again -- the american people told us that they want some type of path for legalization for the people, the undocumented people that are already here. >> chris go ahead and respond, please. the biggest myth in immigration law and immigration policy making is that these are jobs americans won't take. in every one of those occupations where they're talking about cleaning tables, cleaning hotel rooms or picking fruit in the fields, the majority of workers, over 50% in those areas are u.s. citizens. that shows the u.s. citizens are willing to take those ons and they need work at these job fairs are looking for entry level jobs. the fact that you're above the

manual work is simply incorrect. we need to open up the jobs that the illegal aliens are occupying and let u.s. citizens, who by the way, the u.s. citizens disproportionately hurt are usually minority u.s. citizens and the most vital people in the workforce are having these jobs taken away from them. if we're serious about jobs one of the things we can do is get serious about immigration enforcement and his administration has said we'll drop all immigration deportation case unless another crime in addition to the illegal immigration crime has been committed says they don't take seriously the immigration law. they don't think that's a violation. >> -- it is not a crime. in most instances it's a civil violation. >> it depends. it depends. if you cross the border it's a crime and if you overstate the vase it's a violation. >> they want to move on to practical solutions. he's taking a step toward that

and i see a real danger for people on your side of this discussion by showing that they're against any incremental measure in this debate. it's almost saying that you don't want to be part of the dialogue and you don't want to be part of the solution because things will go forward. >> he's take 300,000 cases and short changing congress. we'll just grant a massive amnesty -- >> it is well within his presidential authority under executive power. >> no, it is not. he's using a narrow authority in humanitarian cases to not deport them. he said we'll do that for 300,000 people if they haven't committed a crime. that is not the way the laws have been structured. >> no one is getting a green card, no one is getting amnesty and what are you doing at the moment? not even canceling them and just a suspension. >> gentlemen, i'm sorry.

no, it's not a green card. chris, and raul reyes, thank you for joining us. coming up, a court ruling that prevents schools from cracking down on students who post lewd photos of themselveses on the internet. it's a made for tv wedding fit for the tabloids. the lowdown on kim kardashian's wedding coming up next on msnbc sunday.

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all right. very interesting legal twist for some indiana teens who were suspended from high school for posting racy pics online. a federal judge said it was the teen's right to do so even if others like parents and teachers consider the content offensive. joining me now is criminal defense attorney janice billboor who is in studio. regardless of what anyone think, a 2009 case where girls took

pictures at a sleepover, they posted them online and they were racy and suggestive positions. and the principal got wind of it and the aclu got involved to say their first amendment rights were violated and now the judges agreed. >> yeah. i hate to say this, but the judge is right on. i think what saves these girls is the fact that they didn't -- this activity is very racy is an understatement for the types of pictures these teenagers took of themselves, but they didn't do it on school property. it warrant meant to be anything related to the school activity. so the fact that the pictures ended up in the principal's office is kind of neither here nor there legally speaking. >> when we talk about the fact that the first amendment protects this kind of behavior, what's the educational context for a lot of parents who are watching this as a takeaway? because obviously, this probably put a lot of distress on the parent, the family, the school girls -- i'm just saying that i

think there's got to be a teachable moment out of this for everybody so that they can learn something, even for principals as well. >> true. i hope these girls have parents because the nature of these photos suggest they were raised by wolves. they're very, very -- they're bad pictures. you have to teach your kids that facebook does not end at the bottom of your friend list and anything you post online, treat it like a tattoo. it's never going away. so parents have to really monitor, i don't care if your kid is 16, 17 on the brink of college, you have to monitor what your kids are doing online because once it's out there, it is out there even if they have a first amendment right to be stupid who wants their kid to be stup snid they'll be going to college in a year or two. >> and a long life ahead of them. >> and these photos will have a long life ahead of them. so unless you're a socialite with more money than god and want a real job, you do not post

pictures online. >> this is a perfect segway. kim kardashian tighe the knot with kris humphries. it was not a royal wegd, but a very regal ceremony yesterday in montecito, california. michelle franzen has the story how the two became husband and wife. you can see the connection? >> great segue, aside from carefully-released details, we have yet to see the dress described as a strapless ivory gown, the showstopper and the wedding where the cost was clearly no object. reality tv sweetheart kim kardashian and professional basketball player kris humphries tied the knot in an exclusive and elaborate wedding in montecito, california, just outside santa barbara.

the setting, the sprawling estate of google executive eric schmidt. overhead, glimpses of the kardashian family and guests arriving. the who's who list of the rich and famous included lindsay lohan, eva longoria and humphries' teammates from the new jersey netness in all, more than 400 attended the lavish event dubbed the celebrity world's royal wedding. >> the kardashians have drawn comparisons from the royal wedding kim's wedding. in terms of majesty, splendor, pomp and circumstance it's going to give the royal wedding a run for its mono pep. >> kardashian style, of course, tongue in cheek and chic with the bride all dressed in wang, vera wang. >> she had three custom made vera wang dresses at a price taffing $25,000 a piece. >> her choice, "people" magazine

described it as ivory with a full tulle skirt and e plans to art big event in two parts in october. >> have you been drinking? >> kim and her sisters are famous for being famous and savvy at turning that celebrity into fortune, cashing in on all things kardashian, from personal appearances and a new clothing line, and of course, the popular series "keeping up with the kardashians." the couple's relationship played out on the show. >> but you called them so fast. >> that's not true. >> yes, it is. you even told me. >> reporter: and humphries proposed in may with a 20-karat diamond ring. now husband and wife, but many are wondering if it's for real or just reality tv. >> you have to ask yourself, is this all for show? they got together very quickly, engaged even faster. then you look at them together, they seem really in love. >> reporter: and of course, after the wedding, the reception, earth, wind and fire

performed, and so did stevie wonder. kim kardashian, of course, a seclu shrewd businesswoman, and even though she saved no expense, this wedding gala could have saved her and her husband $20 million. >> i'm sorry, i was just going to have another coffee. >> $20 million. >> i believe them. i think they're in love. don't you? >> yeah. >> i do, i do. >> i have no idea, actually, i don't. >> well, they got married, so that's going for them. michelle franzen, thanks. sarah palin is not saying whether she's going to run for president, but someone who knows a thing or two about running for president says she is. yeah. we're going to have that coming up next for you. what'd you use? every project we finish comes with a story built-in. it's how our rough ideas become "you did that yourself?" so when we can save more on the projects that let us fix, make, and do more... that just makes the stories even better. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot.

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all right, so, renewed speculation this weekend that sarah palin could get into the presidential race? karl rove predicted yesterday that palin will run, saying her upcoming schedule looks more like that of a candidate than a celebrity. and then there's this video that her political action committee released on friday.

>> the secret is out, it seems, within seconds. >> sarah palin was off to the fair today. >> and on this day, she happens to be in iowa. >> another leg of her one-nation bus tour. >> i think the good folks here in iowa, you could ask anybody here, and i think that they would tell you it's time that this country is put back on the right track, that the economy is recovering, jobs in the private sector and they're ready for some positive change. >> all right, so, joining me is crystal ball, democratic strategist and candidate for u.s. congress, also with ron christie, a republican strategist and former special assistant to president george w. bush. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> good morning. >> ron, did this look like a campaign video or something else? >> something else, i think. i think sarah palin still wants to be relevant. i think she still wants to be well regarded in the political scene, and if not a king-maker, then certainly a queen-maker. so, she's going to still get her name out there. i think she likes being a celebrity, i think she likes the limelight. i don't see her getting into the race. >> well, it comes with money. we need to point out that this

is the governor who quit halfway through. crystal, what do you think? is she going to try to become politically relevant again as opposed to just being a celebrity and relevant that way? >> you know what, i'm going to utter five words i never thought i would say, which is i agree with karl rove. i actually do think that sarah palin is going to jump into this race, and i've been saying that for a long time. i just don't think she can resist getting in and having the spotlight fully on her. she doesn't want to be on the sidelines. she wants to be the center of attention. >> why wait? >> well, she thinks she can play by her own rules, she doesn't have to do the same thing candidates do. when she gets in, she assumes everything's going to center around her because that's the way it normally works. >> we asked you before the show which candidate will be on the rise. your two top were the same, but flipped. cri krystal said rick perry with mitt romney and ron, you put mitt romney with rick perry behind him. why do you think perry will take

the top, because he's new? >> there is a new sheriff in town. since he's gotten in the race shaerks's skyrocketed in the polls. the new national poll shows him 28% to mitt romney's 18%. he is really what the republican primary electorate is looking this year. he's from texas, where they have low taxes, low regulation. he can talk about the job creation. >> jobs. >> i think it comes with a lot of caveats, but this is what the republicans are looking for this year. >> all right, so ron, you're the reverse, though. you think mitt romney can keep up the steam he has and continue to pull ahead of a person like rick perry. >> i do. governor romney has run for president once before. he knows what it's like to be on the trail. he's very experienced. he's a much candidate right now, better organized, better financed, and has the staff. governor perry's very interesting. i would never count him out. he's certainly going to be a factor in this race, but governor romney is still the man to beat because he's got the experience and he has the infrastructure in place. >> all right, well -- >> perry's got the courage, though. >> he's got the swagger. >> he's got the swagger. >> they say in texas, right? well we'll keep you around to talk about who may be on the way

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