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the tropical storm gaining strength and on target to hit the u.s. as a hurricane. and offering hope. president obama's jobs plan. can the president deliver on the great expectations? hi, everybody. good morning to you. i'm thomas roberts in for alex witt. it's nice to see you, and welcome to "msnbc sunday." it's 11:00 in the east, 8:00 out west, and we get straight to what's happening right now. developing are the attacks on the libyan capital of tripoli. mortar rounds and gunfire were heard in the city last night, and this may be the first time in the six-month uprising that the libyan capital has come under assault by rebel forces. nbc's michelle kosinski is in london for us. michelle, bring us up to speed. what's the latest as we understand it with the forces moving into tripoli? >> reporter: yeah, these are some of the most dramatic developments we've seen, and it's seven months since this has devolved into a revolution within libya. the rebel forces now have taken over the city of zawiya, which is the left of the capital, and they've been making their way

very slowly closer and closer. now, reportedly, within about 20, 25 miles of the capital from the west. but they've come under heavy fire. there are reports that pro-gadhafi forces have snipers on many of the buildings and they've had to retreat a little bit from the west. they're also approaching, though, from the south, and reportedly, now, from the sea. so, while they're still in the suburbs, basically, of tripoli, what this has done is inspired people, pro-gadhafi supporters within tripoli, to take up arms and to get involved in clashes around the city. it's unclear right now how large those clashes are, but it's caused a sense of jubilation within the city, because while they may not be the rebel bands, the militias that are outside closing in, they are people who are wanting to see gadhafi fall, and they're fighting him. the other side is also willing to fight. we saw some dramatic video just coming out today of a female newscaster with libyan state tv

holding what looks to be a large pistol while she's on the air and vowing to fight in support of gadhafi. well, that brings us to the question of where is gadhafi, what is he doing? well, last night, he apparently called state tv and gave a sort of address in which he called the rebels rats and filthy people. he urged citizens to fight them, to not let them in, and he vowed to fight. he also insisted that he is still inside the capital, although many people believe that that could not be true at this point. the clashes are reportedly near his compound, in fact, as well as nato bombs that have reportedly fallen nearby. >> michelle kosinski in london for us this morning. michelle, thank you. joining me now from washington to discuss the libyan fighting is msnbc military analyst general barry mccaffrey. sir, it's nice to see you. as we talk, and on the back end of what michelle is reporting, as we hear, the rebels have taken the city of zawiya, which is a major oil-exporting city. that sign in and of itself is a

good sign, but does it mean that the rebels have the springboard that they need now to finally take tripoli, something that, as michelle pointed out, is something they've been trying to do for seven months? >> sure. thomas, it looks to me as if the momentum of this has changed, the psychology has changed. we're seeing very high-level defections, and allegedly, reporting that front-line gadhafi forces are starting to abandon their positions. the center of gravity of the whole struggle is now tripoli. 2 million people. ladies and gentlemen of the j y allegedly uprisings by several hundred armed rebel fighters, another brigade of 1,000 or more people prepared to enter the city. the question will be, will gadhafi's people fight for him or not? his tribe will, because they'll think they face extermination, but the rest of them, who he's kept in this balance of power, look to me as if they're starting to leave him. >> if we talk about what the u.s. needs to do after gadhafi

falls -- and it looks like this may be the closest we've ever seen the regime coming to doing that -- will the u.s. recognize the rebel government that is now working so aggressively to remove gadhafi? >> well, of course, we already have, and much of the international community has, and i think the arab world will also. but tom, this is the end of chapter one. the next chapters are how do you govern a country which is fragmented tribal structure with a substantial portion of the population, the burburs, having been completely disenfranchised, where threw be vengeance for 40 years of sdpodic rule. how do you keep order of the 1,000 rebel fighters in a city of 2 million people? we will expect chaos and cruel retribution in the coming weeks. >> i think a lot of people will be watching this, instead of asking how, they'd be asking themselves why. >> well, why in the sense of why

u.s. involvement? of course, that debate took place six, seven months ago. >> right. >> the administration stepped in to prevent a slaughter in benghazi, so it was a humanitarian concern. that u.n. resolution at the start was just to protect the civil population. now we've got u.s. armed predator drones, we've got brit apache attack helicopters, french, danish, norwegian fighter bombers actively attacking gadhafi forces and his command and control. it's become the rebels' air force. so, we've come a long way in seven months, but it's been incremental. and one could argue, we have prolonged the mayhem in libya. >> and when we talk about humanitarian efforts, why aren't we talking more than about syria and what's taking place there and the fact that it's actually even more strategically important than libya would be? >> well, certainly, you know, you make a great argument. the notion that one size fits all would argue that syria, with

its several thousand people murdered by the iz yad regime and a country where there is strategic importance to what happens in syria, an active threat to israel, the source of much of the mayhem that occurred in iraq off to the east -- why haven't we intervened? i think there the answer has been, look, there's less we can do, the risks are greater. but it does leave a question of what is the u.s. diplomatic strategy dealing with the so-called arab spring? and it's been somewhat incoherent at best. >> general barry mccaffrey, sir, always good to see you. thanks for your time this morning. >> good to be with you, thomas. white house officials say even though the president is vacationing in martha's vineyard, he is tapped into the developments taking place in libya. nbc's kristen welker is traveling with the president, joining us now from martha's vineyard. kristen, obviously, as the president travels, the white house travels with him. >> reporter: absolutely.

hi there, thomas. well, a white house official tells us that president obama was indeed briefed on the situation in libya earlier today, that the united states is in close contact with its allies, continues to believe that gadhafi is in his final days there in libya. in the meantime, the white house also continues to insist that this is a working vacation for the president. the only sign of the president on martha's vineyard saturday, his motorcade leaving a private social event in oak bluffs. a white house official says earlier, mr. obama was briefed on the unfolding situation in libya and on the two american hikers jailed in iran. in his weekly address taped in illinois during last week's midwest bus tour, the president kept up the pressure on congress, urging them to pass bills which he argues could help jump-start the economy. >> the only thing preventing us from passing these bills is the refusal by some in congress to put country ahead of party. that's the problem we have right now. that's what's holding this country back. >> reporter: in the republican

response, ohio governor john kasich fired back. >> so, when i hear the president and his allies in washington say we need more spending and higher taxes, it is a real cause for concern. >> reporter: and there were also fireworks on the campaign trail. texas governor rick perry stumped in the early voting state of south carolina, where he dug in his heels on recent controversial comments, including questioning the validity of global warming. >> i just happen to believe that, you know, the earth's temperature has been moving up and down for millenniums now. >> reporter: and he defended his charge that fed chairman ben bernanke's monetary policies have been treasonist. perry said if he rattled some in his own party, so be it. >> the american people are really concerned and scared, small businessmen and women are frightened about the monetary policy or the lack thereof with this administration. >> reporter: but his republican rivals tried to capitalize on perry's unabashed style. former utah governor jon huntsman, who has been trailing in a number of polls, took a

swipe at perry on twitter, saying "to be clear, i believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. call me crazy." minnesota congresswoman michele bachmann also barn-stormed in south carolina, trying to broaden her appeal. >> we are going to make the case that we're the unifying candidate who can beat obama! >> reporter: but political analysts say this race will be centered around one issue, the economy, and will likely be a referendum on the person who currently holds the job. >> if the economy is as bad as it is now, and if people are as unhappy with the president and his performance as they are now, it's going to be very difficult for the president to be re-elected. it's as simple as that. >> reporter: and if you think the race is heated now, it's really going to ramp up after labor day. now, as for the president, he is currently at the beach with his family, we are told. white house officials also tell us at this point in time, he is not expected to release a statement about libya today.

thomas. >> kristen welker in martha's vineyard, thank you. and new this hour, hurricane warning issued for puerto rico and the north coast of the dominican republic as tropical storm irene is nearing. the weather channel's alex wallace is monitoring the storm for us from atlanta. alex, bring us up to speed. what's the latest? >> good day to you, thomas. of course, all eyes on the tropics and tropical storm irene continuing to work its way through the northeastern caribbean, starting to see some of those outer bands now moving its way across puerto rico, but no doubt, the heaviest of the rain and the gustier winds a little bit farther on off towards the east. where is irene going to be heading? well, here's some of the forecast computer models here as we head through time, starting early sunday all the way through friday. notice they are all completely compacted together here all the way through friday, until they work their way towards south florida. so, pretty good agreement with all of these computer models where this thing is going to be headed, but we still want to make sure you are in mind here all across florida and the

southeast. now is the time to start thinking about irene and what it may be doing later in the week. now is not the time to be boarding up the home but thinking about what you will do if irene does threaten. meanwhile, across the states, tracking a cold frontal boundary getting closer towards the east coast. with it, some showers and storms, some of which could be strong to even severe. the threat for severe weather extending from new england all the way down into the carolinas. threats out there with some of the storms. of course, heavy rain, but damaging winds and hail will be a big threat and can't rule out the risk for an isolated tornado. active conditions this sunday. and of course, the tropics on everyone's mind. thomas? >> alex, thank you. two americans are looking at spending the next eight years behind bars in iran, but there is still a chance that they could be freed. we take a look at their case, next. also ahead, the president's jobs plan. can he muster enough support on capitol hill to make it all happen? and money is surely not in short supply for the celebrities making a dubious list of the stingiest tippers.

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welcome back, everyone. in spain, more than a million young people attended a mass celebrated by pope benedict. he's wrapping up his four-day visit to the catholic church's world youth day. during the mass, the pontiff encouraged those on hand to become missionaries for the faith. iran's punishment for two american hikers is drawing a response from the u.s. state department. the country's high court, though, sentenced both men to an eight-year prison sentence on charges of spying and trespassing. this came down on saturday. today, secretary of state hillary clinton issued a statement saying, "we are deeply disappointed that iranian judicial authorities have sentenced shane bauer and joshua fattal to eight years in prison. we continue to call and work for

their immediate release. it is time for them to return home and be reunited with their families. i join president obama and the people of the united states in expressing our unflagging support for shane, joshua, sarah and their families during this difficult time." nbc's ali arouzi is in tehran and has more on this story. >> reporter: that's right, thomas, there has been a lot of confusion here as to what would have happened with these guys. they got an eight-year sentence. now we have to watch very carefully to see how the authorities in iran are going to play this. we have several options here. there's an appeal of the pardon in 20 days, or the most important thing that we're looking out for is to be pardoned at the end of the month of ramadan. one of the ways iranians could be looking at this is to have given these guys a very, very harsh sentence, and then suddenly let them go at the end of the month of ramadan would make the authorities here, in their view, look very

magnanimous. the other big concern is that these guys will be kept here for a tid for tat or for a bargaining chip. the iranians have made a lot of noise since the trio was arrested about iranians incarcerated in u.s. prisons and have continuously mentioned the prison swap, so that's another possibility on the cards. these next ten days to two weeks are going to be crucial to see how all of this pans out. thomas? >> ali, when we talk about what the government here in the united states has said, both secretary of state hillary clinton has now spoken out as well as president obama. government officials have issued statements in the past trying to clear up any confusion that they are not spies, that they were not there sent on any type of government business, that they just crossed the border by accident. so, why haven't they taken that into account, especially during what a lot of people would witness as a rush to judgment? >> reporter: well, i mean, that's right, but you have to consider, thomas, relations with the united states are terrible. this is a big political pawn to get these guys over here.

also, when they were arrested was during the height of the turmoil during the disputed presidential elections. the iranian authorities were always saying that, you know, the west was involved, and this was something that they could show that the west was involved, even if they couldn't make anything stick. plus, there was no way they were going to keep these guys here for two years, incarcerated in one of the world's most notorious prisons and not press charges against them. they would have looked silly here if they had kept them here two years and said, hey, you know what, you didn't do anything wrong, off you go. also, as i mentioned before, they want to keep these guys here as a political bargaining chip. >> right. >> reporter: this is a big ace card in the sleeve of the iranians in future negotiations with america, to see what they can get out of it. iran is worried about sanctions, they're worried about their central bank being sanctioned. so, it's useful tomorrow them to keep these guys. thomas? >> we will continue to watch, as again, they have 20 days to appeal the current sentence. ali arouzi, thank you.

new this morning, robert gibbs, who is now an adviser on the president's re-election campaign, was taking some shots at 2012 hopefuls. the former white house press secretary spoke with savannah guthrie while she was hosting "meet the press." >> when it comes to somebody like governor rick perry, they're going to wonder why a place like texas has one of the worst education systems, they're going to wonder why, quite frankly, they're 47th in wages, just like they're going to wonder why mitt romney, when he was governor of massachusetts, was 47th in job creation. >> you can watch the full "meet the press" interview today at 2:00 right here on msnbc, but now i'm joined by ron christie, republican strategist and former special assistant to president george w. bush, as well as krystal ball, democratic strategist and former candidate for u.s. congress. guys, good to have you back. >> thank you. >> krystal, i'll start with you. we're seeing a preview of what's to come for president obama's re-election. are those going to be the talking points we'll hear, instead of praising what president obama has done over

his first four years, it's just going to be taking on who the other people are? >> well, i think for the people surrounding the president, not necessarily the president himself, they definitely want to make that contrast and say, you know what, we all know that we've still got work to do on the economy, but look at what these guys and gals have done. we don't want to go down that path. so, it's kind of a three-pronged attack. on the one hand, the president has to remind people of the very difficult circumstances he came in to office with. on the second hand, he has to make sure we all know that we don't want to go down that path with the current republican crop of candidates. and on the third hand, we have to make sure that we're projecting what we're going to do prospectively. what's the plan to move us forward. so it's a balancing act they're having to do. >> we haven't seen the entire interview with robert gibbs. it's coming up at 2:00 on "meet the press." we're hearing what they were saying about rick perry, and just a sampling of what the other candidates on the gop field offer, ron. so, is that something to take

away from that, is to look at who they think is important, especially if they're talking about them? they think they're the real contenders? >> well, i look at it a little differently. sure, they look at these folks as the contenders, republicans to beat, folks they might be concerned about, but i look at this slightly differently, thomas. i look at this and say this president has been in office for 2 1/2 years and can't talk about his positive vision for the country, can't talk about his record, and instead wants to talk other people down? that's not presidential. when we ran for re-election, president bush ran for re-election, he talked about his record, his accomplishments and vision. early on, we're hearing from the obama folks, these guys are bad, these guys are bad folks, and our vision, we haven't articulated a record, but we're not as bad as they are. >> i don't know if we can talk about the first bush elections. >> it was real. you look at the recount in florida and we got more votes in 2000 when they recounted them than the original election and the americans spoke decidively. president obama failed to lay

out his vision. >> the reality of politics is you have to present a contrast with your candidates. so it makes sense that, again, it's not the president saying these things, it's the people around him who are saying, look, okay, you're hearing great things about the job numbers in texas, but let's get below the surface and talk about what's really going on there, where are those jobs coming from and what's happening in the rest of the states. >> i wasn't talking about kerry, i was talking about hanging chads. >> hey, i was down there. >> hanging chad man. anyway, so in terms of the republican field, we asked you guys beforehand which candidate you thought was going to be on top. now i want to talk to you about it on the way out, because that's how joan rivers would do it, who's best dressed and who's not. ron, you said newt gingrich and you said michele bachmann, on the way out. newt gingrich might be an easy pick because he doesn't have the cash or the headlines. >> and he doesn't seem to have the message. i have a lot of respect for the former speaker's intellect, but it seems he hasn't galvanized support on the ground in iowa or articulated a clear vision of why he should be the leader and

folks have to pick a winner and i don't think he's the winner. >> when we talk about the winner, michele bachmann winner of the iowa straw poll, so why would she be on the way out when she's on the way up in some people's easy nation estimations? >> ironically, i think on the day she won the iowa ames straw poll will end up being the worst day of her campaign because it's the day rick perry got into the race and sucked in all of the oxygen. if you look at the polls coming out since then, she's been sinking like a stone, really having trouble competing with him for attention. >> we'll continue to watch and see. we've got a long way to go. >> long way. >> a long way to go, and we've been talking about it for a long time leading up to this. anyway, great to see you both. >> thank you. >> thanks for your time. from the heat of politics to the scorching weather in china, check out these giant pandas and how they're dealing with the heat wave. they're cozying up to mammoth blocks of ice, and that surely helps them beat the heat. they're just chilling there in china. ♪

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the men known as the west memphis three spent their first full day of freedom on saturday. a series of hbo documentaries helped call attention to the holes in the evidence against these men. they spent 18 years in jail for the 1993 murders of three young boys. >> right now, i'm just kind of floating on the hands of the people who love and care for me, you know, trying to help me get my feet up under me and everything, and i'm just trusting god, you know, to take care of me. >> well, baldwin says he plans to return to school and then get on with his life. as a condition of the release, the west memphis three pleaded guilty to murder but can maintain innocence of that crime. with rebels bearing down on tripoli, libya's moammar gadhafi's hold on power aappears tenuous at best. we'll bring you the latest right here. ease of cooking is very important to me. perdue perfect portions is great on busy nights.

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developing now, attacks on the libyan capital of tripoli. last night, mortar rounds and gunfire were heard in the city. rebel forces say they have nato support in their attack on tripoli, and if confirmed, this would be the first time in the 6-month-old uprising that the libyan capital has come under assault. joining me now from washington is steven clemons of the new america foundation. steven, bring us up to speed, the very latest on what we understand is going on in libya, especially with the movement of the rebels in tripoli. >> well, what we know is the rebels are right up to the edge of the city. there have been some reports, but unconfirmed by me, that there is some street fighting under way. there's a bit of a conflict, but what we do know is along the coast, from both the east and west, moammar gadhafi is in a vice right now, and while this has been a very long six-month story, it looks like we are in the final chapter. i would add that gadhafi is one of the most unpredictable leaders in the world, and when

trapped, we could see some other kinds of things happen that are unexpected, but this really does look like we're at a countdown for the end of his regime. >> as we talk about the street fighting that could be taking place in tripoli itself, does that mean a unified uprising of the people from within the city or an indication of that? >> unified is a very relative term. what we've had -- and i think the real thing that's changed the equation in libya is that villages to the west of tripoli, in the mountains, have unified, organized, and town by town has been taken away from gadhafi. and that put enormous pressure. that has added to the pressure that's already been coming from the benghazi direction on the east side, but we don't know these generals and commanders and militia chiefs in the west. and so, what you're beginning to see is success, and really, the collapse of the gadhafi regime and forces to some degree, but we don't know if it's unified or

not. what we're beginning to see is the collapse of one side of the equation and the empowerment and greater boldness of others that are fighting gadhafi right now. but to call it organized and unified i think would be a step too far. >> well, i was going to say, the reports are that the rebels have taken the town of zawiya, which is right outside of tripoli. >> right. the key town, 25 miles away. >> and it's also a major oil-producing town. so, if they've taken control of that, what are the chances they could lose their grip on it if they are trying to advance onward to tripoli, but they don't have the organization, as you point out, we don't know how organized they are in trying to move forward and advance? >> i think that the real question comes in to whether the market signals, if we can call them that, send enough of gadhafi's troops that they can contrast to the first time. remember, six months ago, the rebels almost pushed gadhafi out of the country. >> right. >> they pushed him right to the edge of political survival. you had a lot of defections then, but gadhafi miraculously came back and pushed them back. i don't think that's going to happen this time, and you're

beginning to see the same pattern -- major defections at very high levels of government. if we see that in his military and command staff, which i think we are seeing, this may send signals to the population inside tripoli to come out of their homes, grab their guns, do whatever they can to knock back the government, see the defection of the police and the military. that's what's going to be required if this isn't going to be a very bloody end. so, hopefully, that will be the case, but right now, as i said, gadhafi is a very dramatic, flamboyant, unpredictable character, and we just don't know what the next chapter will look like, but i don't see any way he can bounce back like he did six months ago. >> steven clemons in washington for us this morning. steven, thank you. >> thank you, thomas. later today, syrian president bashar assad will speak on state tv and he'll talk about the recent demands from president obama and european leaders that he step down. he will also talk about government reforms, according to a state-run news agency. assad had only spoken four times

on state tv since the uprising in syria began in march. new this morning, former white house press secretary robert gibbs is defending the president's handling of the economy and saying when it comes to job creation, the ball is in the republicans' court. gibbs, who is now an adviser on the president's re-election campaign, spoke with savannah guthrie on "meet the press." >> the president is going to outline some ideas. the president has outlined ideas every day he's been in the white house. the question, savannah, is, is there going to be a partner that can work with the president on those ideas? and the question the republican party's going to have to ask themselves, quite simply, is are they willing to set aside some party allegiance, are they willing to tell the tea party that they're going to do what's best for the country and not just necessarily what's best for their political party? >> joining me now is nbc white house correspondent mike viqueira. so mike, the president is getting ready to announce this new jobs plan, but we all have to wait until next month. >> reporter: well, and that's right. the president obviously now into his fourth day of a ten-day

family vacation on martha's vineyard. obviously, he's absorbed some criticism because of that, because of the jobs situation, because of the markets, because of the economy. very interesting there, robert gibbs, the surrogate for the president, advising the president on the 2012 campaign, talking about the tea party. and that's one thing you're going to start to see consistently over the course of the next year and a half as the campaign unfolds, thomas, and that is, the white house and the president's allies and surrogates are really going to try and elevate the tea party in a way, because they would rather run against the representatives of the tea party than they would against somebody more towards the middle who can compete with president obama for the votes of independent voters. after the rise, the surprise rise over the course of the last week or two weeks on the right in michele bachmann, the conservative congresswoman from minnesota, and rick perry, who got in just a week ago, the conservative texas governor. you saw rick perry, for example, make some very controversial comments, calling the fed chairman treasonist.

president obama largely gave him a pass, but here today we had robert gibbs, the president's surrogate, going after perry. >> rick perry is the governor who two years ago openly talked about whether or not texas should lead the union. so i think for rick perry to have at one point talked about secession from the union, as far back as only 2009, i think it's good that he's professed his love for his country. >> reporter: and here we are, thomas, in the heat of august. february, that's when the new hampshire primary starts. it's going to be a long road, but we're already seeing it heat up. thomas? >> we're wishing for that heat come february, that's for sure. mike viqueira, thank you. >> reporter: okay. so, a busy weekend on the campaign trail for the republican presidential candidates. saturday, texas governor rick perry was meeting voters in south carolina. joining me is ally weinberg, who is in columbia, south carolina. bring us up to speed. >> well, hi, thomas. so, yesterday in south carolina, perry did answer some questions

from reporters. that's the first time he's actually taken questions in about a week. this is his second stop of the day in rock hill, south carolina. he was asked about a politico report that said that some republican members of congress had voiced concerns about some of the more controversial statements that mike viqueira was just talking about a second ago, including his comments about ben bernanke, whom he said would be treated pretty ugly if he came to texas. and perry didn't back down from those remarks. he, in fact, said that he was just reflecting the will of the american people, who as he put it, were frightened about the monetary policies of president obama's administration, thomas. >> nbc news campaign inbed ali weinberg in south carolina on the rick perry campaign. thank you, ali. appreciate it. all right, so, more reports from ali and also the rest of the nbc political unit. we recommend that you head to firstread.msnbc.com. all the information you need will be right there.

well, a horrifying reminder of the dangers of school violence just ahead, as students get ready to head back to campus to start a school year. jared kanno was arrested last week for allegedly plotting to kill students and teachers in an attack when his school was to open. police say he planned on bombing the school. a friend says he was just venting anger and never planned on going through with it. susan payne is the founding executive director of safe to tell, a hotline where teens can reach out to report threatening behavior. susan, good to have you on with us. >> thank you. >> tell us how the tip line works for parents, for kids that are out there watching. >> well, in colorado, we focused on really what the research showed us and what the lessons learned, and we provide not only youths the ability to call in a live phone conversation that is a two-way dialogue, but also in a two-way web tipping solution. and we piloted last year with all jefferson county schools sa safe2tell. >> how do you protect aminity for kids who are worried?

>> one of the things we did was after columbine, we went on a listening tour with the attorney general and study for the prevention of violence and we did two things. the attorney general's office and legislators pursued the ability for information to be shared between both law enforcement and school educators, counselors, in a way to keep kids safe if there was a threat to anyone's safety. additionally, the safe2tell law passed in the state of colorado unanimously. so, we have provided legislation in colorado to encourage youths to be part of the solution and to speak up, because they're the ones that know way before adults do. >> well, absolutely. they're on the front line, susan. so, the hotline, though, i want to point out for everyone, is for more than just school violence. what other things are students encouraged to call in about? >> well, we really focus on what the research shows us, and that's really the precipitators of violence. so, from bullying to threats to someone's safety or even threats to their own safety, depression,

threats of suicide, those are important things that we can do to intervene at the earliest opportunity and save a life. and we've been able to do that through our partnerships and through a real effective program that involves education and awareness and accountability and follow-up on every report. so, we've seen the ability to prevent 28 planned school attacks here, and really listening to young people or adults. the other issue that you need to recognize is that most often, young people have that information, but we need to talk to them in advance. they need to understand how to take a threat seriously and not to just say, well, he's just saying that or he was saying it while he ate pizza. it is so important for them to recognize that there is a solution. and they're providing an early intervention. and if you think about the consequences that happen if this would come to fruition.

anyone that spoke up, even here in florida, gave this child an option beyond being life in prison. >> it's a big difference, that's for sure, and i want to tell everybody that they can also check out research for your website at safe2tell.org. susan payne, great to have you on today and congratulations with the hard work you've done with safe 2 tell. >> thank you so much. >> i appreciate it. madonna, the material girl, is making a list of celebrities who are downright cheap when it comes to tipping, but she is not the worst on this list that's been put together. so, do you have any guesses? we're going to have it for you ahead.

when the white house and department of homeland security announced new rules on illegal immigrants just three days ago, no one was listening more closely than the people whose lives it could completely change -- undocumented workers and students, some brought to

the u.s. as children, hoping for a shot at real citizenship. they've always seen themselves as americans, and many only have fuzzy memories of the countries that they were brought here from. jamie kim is a sophomore at fullerton college and a member of the california dream act coalition and joins me now to talk more about this. jamie, i understand you came to the u.s. at the age of 9 from south korea. you were with your parents and your sister. tell us the rest of your story about how you got here. >> yeah, i came to the united states when i was about 9 because of the financial damages that the imf had on my country, south korea. so, my parents and my sister, we decided to come to the united states, being that america is the land of opportunity and freedom. and ever since then, i've worked really hard at school, and this is my home. i grew up here, i went to school, i learned english, and i can't imagine anyplace else. >> why do you think that it was important to come forward with your immigration status or lack

thereof? >> when people think about the issue of undocumentation, people usually think that it's a small faction issue that affects only the latino community, but i want to come out saying it is not even an asian issue. it could literally happen to anybody who came to this country because, you know, they didn't have access to an education, they didn't have access to food or human rights. they come to this country to better themselves and, you know, give back to the society. >> in your lifetime what do you hope to give back then? because you feel that this country has given you so much since you've been here since 9. what do you hope to do? is being vocal about your own personal triumphs, is that one way to start? >> yeah, i guess that's one way to start. i just want to come forward that i have a lot of attributes that i could give to this country.

the u.s. has already invested in me with the public education system. i actually went to the recruitment for air force in my high school, but i didn't -- i couldn't enroll because i didn't have a green card, you know. i wanted to give my military service up. i want to ultimately work for the state department or ngos or economic sector think-tanks, but that's where i want to give. but from my peers, they want to be the future doctors, future architects, and i think that the u.s. has a lot to benefit from that. >> jamie, when do you think that you'll know more about the dream that you have to stay in this country and be here without having to worry about your undocumented immigration status? >> i think that's when we have the federal dream act. if i could add, not everyone

qualifies for federal dream act. it's for people, children who were brought here when they were 15 years old or younger, have attended u.s. high schools, are long-term residents and have at least completed at least two years of military service or college education. and i think that's the key issue that we should work on, which is the immigration reform. i amreform. i'm really grateful that i no longer have to worry about getting deported, but my future is still uncertain. >> we wish you i the best. we know you are a sophomore in fullerton college. thank you for your time. appreciate your story. >> thank you, sir. a look at today's number one withes. tiger woods may not be number one on the links but she on the top of the list of cheapest stingiest tippers.

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the federal judge in indiana recently ruled that content is protected by the first amendment even if parents and educators disagree. criminal defense attorney is here with some insight on this one. so, for those people who aren't familiar with this case. it is on a 2009 incident where members of a female high school volleyball team took some borderline x-rated shots. you i think they are x-rated completely. >> yeah. >> but they posted them on facebook and this is from a sleepover. the principal got wind and did

what? >> the principal got wind and decided to punish the girls by not letting them participate in sports for the year. enter the aclu who said wait a minute. these girls have a first amendment right to post these racy pictures on facebook or wherever they posted them. and the indiana said aclu, you are right and unfortunately the aclu is right. they did have a first amendment right to be stupid, but mainly because none of the activity took place in the school's halls. if they had marched through the cafeteria with hard candy strapped to their behinds sending some sort of message the school could have gotten involved. here the only message was their own stupidity. >> there's no criminality to this either. >> no. which is a little unusual because some of these pictures, the way they are described, are borderline obscene and these kids are kids. so this could be, you know, one form of child pornography. but apparently they are not going there. i know the kids were fully

dressed and using candy as props, but in a raunchy way. >> if the aclu hadn't gotten involved do you think this would have been a highly publicized case. >> probably not. it might have gone under the radar and might have been better for all of us. now we have a whole contingent of kids who may think it is okay to do this. but if you would be embarrassed to put it on your resume, don't post it on facebook. >> sthnt up to the parents? while you have your rights, i'm sure the parents are making sure or making sure there's a lesson that comes out of this so the kids know that life is a pretty long period of time, especially when this is something that happens at the beginning of your life, you don't want to define your life. >> parents can instill whatever punishment they want. i understand they are fighting for the legal cause. at home the message has to be you have to treat whatever you post on-line as a tattoo that will never go away.

once it is out there it is not. they have a long educational life and career ahead of them, i hope. so let's clean it up, guys. >> thank you so much. that's going to wrap up our live coverage here on msnbc sunday. thank you for your time stay with us for headline updates and breaking news as it happens. up next, another msnbc documentary. i'm thomas roberts. have a great sunday. take care.