world's scientists but the governments of virtually every as well. if they want to be taken seriously, anyone make such a claim would have to back it up with extraordinary evidence, wouldn't they? but perry and bachmann say anything rational person would consider these claims an embarrassment. the folks who made them, unfit for office, yet here they are. perry and bachmann, front runters for the republican presidential nomination. they will tell us something and not something good, about the current republican party. if either of these two were to actually move into the wlous. it would say something even more tragic about our body politic. president and crazy are not two words we want connected. that's haul hall for now, thanks for being with us. more politics ahead with al sharpton.

gadhafi may be falling, but what does it mean for libya? and for us. we will talk live with nbc's richardening ing el in libya. if the policy working? if you ask republicans, nasa not giving credit where it's due. speaking of credit, michele bachmann talks about infiltrating the irs. we'll have the real story of her record. we got you congresswoman. and the newest memorial in our station's capitol. dr. martin luther king, jr. unveiled today to the public. welcome to the show, i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, gadhafi's last stand. as libyan rebels take control of tripoli, celebrations are erupting around the can tole city, can has lived under the dictators iron grip for 42

years. the whereabouts of moammar gadhafi remain unknown. nbc's richard ing el has been reporting through tripoli throughout this historic revolution. he was there last night covering the reaction from the crowd. >> we are hearing from people here over and over and this is a historic day. he says today we live in freedom. that is something we are hearing over and over again. people are saying god is -- they are just thankful and thankful that this day has come and new a new future may be coming for libya. >> joining me my phone interest tripoli's green square is richard engel, richard, good evening. what is the latest there at green square? >> the crowds are not very big in green square. this city has mostly fallen to

the rebels. about 10% of the city is still controlled by gadhafi loyalists. in particular, gadhafi's own compound. that is a very important, very strategic location, very well-armed location. and from that compound, his loyalists, troops, militia, mercenaries, not sure who is inside, have been firing rockets and military into villain areas into this silly. because of that, the crowds just haven't come out. they are celebrating but they are still very much afraid because there are -- there is some pockets of ongoing clashes. >> now, people are not coming out because they are afraid people are not coming out because they are still some loyalty to mr. gooech? gooef gadhafi? >> i think they are afraid of coming out because they don't want to be hit by a rocket.

people come out and then they will hear sniper fire or gunfire in the distance and then people will go back into their homes. i do not think it is because they have such mixed feelings about the demise from power of moammar gadhafi. and it is unclear about his personal status. no one in this country knows where gadhafi is. he may still be in the compound. he may have left the country. he may have left the south. he has good relations with africa countries. there is speculation he may be trying to get to one of them. at least two of his sons have been detained. so people are uncertain. i don't think they are staying out because they have mixed feelings. >> two of his sons have been detained, as you said. to help me here, does this not remind us of baghdad when we saw the original capture there, then it ended up with saddam hussein in, out of -- relatively easy

coming in. then turned on us. i mean, are we seeing parallels here to baghdad? >> i wouldn't draw any parallels to baghdad. this was a completely different -- completely different country, totally different political dynamics here. there is no sunni shiite divide in this country. in iraq you had kurdish divide. the iraq war was led by the united states. it was followed by an american occupation. nato intervention from afar that helped the rebels liberate themselves, according to their own view of this conflict. i don't think you can draw those kind of parallels that it was a liberation that descend et the civil war. it might happen but not because of the reasons that happened in baghdad. >> the fact is that rebels are different groups that have come

together. now, if they are successful, what does that mean? how do we know that these groups can come together and govern who is going to dominate? there are those of us here who didn't want to get involved because we didn't want to see the united states get in the regime change. what happens now? >> i don't think that the united states is in the regime change game here like it was in baghdad. in baghdad, there were more than a hundred thousand troops on the ground and it was the united states, then ambassador bremmer running a civil administration, helping to select a leadership council, organizing elections. you're not going to see american troops here handing out ballot botches. there are certainly many different rebel groups. they come from different tribes. they have their own wave of getting along. there may be some bloodshed among them but you will not see

the united states as far as can i see, you know, here overseeing the transition of power. the transition of power is taking place right now, but it will be a libyan affair among libyans. and i think that actually, it is a new model for war, if you will. the iraq war was led by u.s. troops and iraqis frankly didn't do very much to overthrow saddam hussein. they weren't that involved. they didn't -- they hardly lost any of their own lives. it would be u.s. that bombed and took over baghdad. here, nato has dropped some bombs but it let rebels themselves move forward. rebels have lost several thousand people in this fight and therefore are taking a lot more ownership of it than we saw in baghdad. the first thing that people did in iraq after the americans arrived was loot the city. today we have seen a little bit of looting but not strictly like what happened in baghdad.

>> we will see where it goes. nbc's richard engel in tripoli. thank you for joining me tonight. >> joining me, washington bureau chief for al jazeera, thank you for joining me tonight. let me ask you, how smooth account transition be, given that the rebels are not totally cohesive false? >> looking back over the last six months and all the predictions that have been made about their capabilities to actually make it to tripoli in any shape or form and to see what they have done over the last 24 hours actually in reaching tripoli, i think a lot of libyans would be willing to give the rebels the credit that if they did reach tripoli the way they have done, then perhaps they can pull together in a post

gadhafi period and lead the country, obviously no one expects it to be easy, gadhafi did not leave any institutions. there is no civil society in libya. no political parties. so, the challenges will be obviously huge and libya is a very tribal place. but if they have done it so far, i think there is some hope that they can pull together and do it post gadhafi but it's not going to be easy. >> there have been pictures of rebels holding pro american signs. do you think the country has a whole is happy with nato and the u.s. involvement? i'm talking about the people in libya. >> well be i think it will be safe to divide libyans in at least two categories, at least libyans on the part of the rebels. one category which was obviously very happy to see nato involved, especially after gadhafi had called libyans in that speech

rats and he called for them to be street by street and house by house and individual by individual. his forces actually got very close to benghazi a few months ago and everyone thought if he had left his own devices, he would have moved into benghazi and he would have slaughtered his own people. the second category 6 people, at least on the rebels side, is that they are not particularly happy it was called a libyan revolution, but ultimately it had to rely on outside forces to help it along. but they accept that as a reality that saved them and may give them the hope to lead their own country at some point. although the west in one way or another, given the road that it has played so far, will have a say to say in what happens in the future. >> thanks for your time this evening. >> thank you. >> now let's bring in nicholas burns from harvard kennedy

school of government. let me ask you, professor, one again today the obama administration said there will be no u.s. boots on the ground in libya. in your opinion, is that the right move? >> it is. it is very much the right decision by president obama. i think president obama has been vindicated. you remember all of the critics who say he didn't have the constitutional right to deploy troops, who said he had the wrong strategy but his strategy of going in, going in with flighto, putting more of the burden of responsibility of our european allies, having the united states in reserve but playing from time to time at the beginning and end of the conflict, a critical role. i think that strategy succeeded. and so, i think the president deservees a lot of credit for sticking with this. it wasn't easy. i felt ten days ago that we were at risk of a stalemate and obviously i was wrong about that. the libyan rebels deserve most of the credit, obviously.

they liberated themselves and their country but with a very strong assist from the united states and from nato allies. >> this is a great time for confessions because i, who generally with support the president, i didn't support this strategy for a lot of dirent other reasons, but you can't say it has not ended, at least appears, like it sending the way he said. without american lives, without a lot of investment. so i think that clearly, i'm waiting to see if john mccain and others who hammered him on this, are going to be as forthcoming as you've been in saying, what you just said. let me ask you, have you a lot of background in these kinds of foreign endeavors and what is going on. where do you think gadhafi is, and what happens to his $42 billion fortune, if in fact he is captured hague or tried ther in libya?

>> well, i of course have no idea where he is -- >> i'm sorry. i tlaut thought it was 42. i have overestimated what we have been ably.to i don't have any idea where gadhafi is. i was interested to hear the state department say today they felt he had not left the country. and if that's the case, how the war ends over the next day or two or three, is going to go a long way in determining the future of this country. if it ends in recriticism nation, more violence, if gadhafi fights to the last person, if he tries to take the country down with him, obviously that will be very ugly and very bloody. if this new government is going to take shape over the next few days can somehow buy into the various tribal groups of libya together and try to create a sense of one nation after four decades of dictatorship, then that's obviously going to be a better foundation for a successful future. it will be a very tall mountain for this new government to

climb. because there's poverty in the country. there's massive destruction of infrastructure in the cities because of the fighting. so they've got a lot of work to do. but it is certainly in many ways in a hopeful moment that people's army came together to liberate the country from a brutal and cynical dictator. >> ambassador burns, thanks for joining me to knit. >> thank you so much for having me on your show. >> coming up, republicans criticize president obama's leadership on libya. surely they are giving him some credit now, right? get again. plus, the gop's dirty laundry. a devastating attack on the extreme fringe of the republican party. coming up, from one of their own. and our first look at the martin luther king, jr. memorial which opened to the public today. we'll be right back.

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have shortened this conflict dramatically. and unfortunately, we chose not to. we led from behind. >> the criticism doesn't stop there. in a joint statement with mccaine, senator lindsay graham says, quote, we regret that this success with a was so long in coming due to the failure of united states to employ the full weight of our air power. the he is not trs actually called the mission a failure. even though they are thrilled with the fall of gadhafi. perhaps the greatest irony is that both are giving military advice own handling of the dictator. even though they visited his home and shook his hand during congressional trip to libya just two years ago. joining me now, congressman joe crowly, democrat from new york. a member of the house foreign affairs committee. and alex wagner, msnbc analyst and reporter for the huffington post.

congressman, what does it mean for the libyan people to have colonel gadhafi out of power. >> i think the adage, a picture is worth a thousand words, i mean, we saw, what you just showed on your show, the exuberance, the sheer craziness of it. but it is in such a positive way. people are drunk on freedom. and people are baffled by the leaders. are they paying attention to what is going on around the world? does everything is v to be related to politics aent performance of the president. this is bordering absurd. >> i think alex that there was some on the right that wanted him to go in and do more. there were some of us on left that did not want to see us go into a change like this and a regime change where america got involved in way that did not make many of us comfortable. >> sure.

>> but you can't deny that what he said he was going to do -- >> he did. >> -- is what he did. so what are they talking about in real language? >> it's partisan bickering. it is partisan politics. as the congressman so eloquently said, this is freedom. it is a powerful, powerful thing. to use the opportunity it say, congratulationses to the president and then kick him in the shins in the same move is unfortunate. you look at the projectry on this and there's been a lot of sort of back and forth with both the house and senate in terms of where the president was going and the house could never quite get to a sort of position. you know, there are these bills introduced to call for withdraw, call for you know, the authorization and this constant back and forth. never any kind of semblance of any position. >> let me ask this, mitt romney, who is, according to most polls, the leading republican candidate. he finally weighed in with the

statement late this afternoon. let me let you see what he said, congressman crowley. he says, that he backed this statement by one of his spokes people, mr. romney backed airstrikes and no-fly zone to prevent colonel gadhafi from attacking his own people but criticized mr. obama for muddling the mission. expressed hope that libya will now move toward a representative form of government that supports freedom, human rights and the rule of law. that was for a new york times assessment of his statement. very eloquently incoherent to me. >> well said. what i see missing the whole point here, is they don't know how to acknowledge success. abraham lincoln had his detractors during the civil war. roosevelt had his detractors during world war ii.

he's under good company. the reality is, what he said out to do, said it work in an international way, with nato and in a progressive way to help the libyan people free themselves. that's exactly what happened. >> there are still concerns. we don't know whether the factions among the rebels who are not a cohesive force, whether they can govern, kurm together, what's going to happen with the oil. what's going to happen with a lot of the assets. i mean, what are your concerns? you're in the foreign affairs committee. do you have concerns as i do? >> i lost my position with foreign affairs and ways and means, i like to get back it foreign affairs. i think you share the same as i i do, we don't know what the future holds, yet. we don't know what the next regime or government will look like. we hope and pray it will be democratic government. one that supports the rights of man within libya, particularly. human rights.

that is something i think that your camera caught. they want people free and they want human rights. >> alex, let me ask you the political side of this. you cover and analyze politics. when cover obama captured and directed the killing of bin laden, the polls, he jumped in the polls nine points. can i show you the poll numbers where he went up from 47 to 56%. now he is back down to 44%. will this give him a clear political jump? >> i think, you know, you're definitely going to see. it is good for him. i'm not sure it gives him the same bump that capturing enemy number one did. but look at the metrics. spending $1.1 billion on this, which in pentagon number says nothing. american flights flew only 16% of the missions. it was led in large part by the french. everything the president said he was going to do, he did.

he may take issue from the leading from behind, but at end of the day, gadhafi in charge for 42 years is out after 155 days. you really can't argue with those numbers. >> well, some of us can't. >> congressman joe crowly, thank you for your time. >> yeah. >> the leading gop candidates are being called flip-floppers. extreme and unelectable. that's just what one top republicans is saying. can the gop handle the truth? stay with us. michele bachmann says he infiltrated the irs while working there. but we have the real story. and that's next. just one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day

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michele bachmann went behind enemy lines at the irs. but it seems like she didn't do a whole lot while she was there. out on the campaign trail, bachmann is always quick to bring up her experience as a tax lawyer. >> i spent my professional life and my i michigan scholarly life working on federal tax litigation in the federal tax court. >> i'm a former federal tax litigation attorney. >> federal tax lawyer. >> former federal tax lawyer. >> of course when bachmann talks about her experience, she usually glosses over the fact that she worked for the irs on behalf of the government. against taxpayers. her tea party crowd probably wouldn't love that.

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laundry about the republican field. being aired by one of their own. republican presidential candidate jon huntsman has come out telling the truth about the gop to the american public. >> i wouldn't necessarily trust any of my opponents right now. we have zero substance. we have no good ideas that are being circulated or talked about that will allow this country to get back on its feet economically. >> huntsman pull node punches in aattacking his his fellow republican. he swung hard at rick perry. >> the minute the republican party begins the party, the anti-science party, we have a huge problem. i think when you find yourself at an extreme end of the republican party, you make yourself unelectable. >> he went after michele bachmann and her promise of $2 gas. >> i just don't know what world that comment would come from. gas prices just aren't going to rebound like that. it just simply is not founded in

reality. >> then he went after front runner mitt romney. >> if we were touk about his inconsistencies and changes on various issues, we would be here all afternoon. >> but he wasn't done yet. huntsman even took aim at the tax policy. >> we have to phase out loop holes an deductions, get rid of corporate welfare. we have to lower the rate and broaden the base. >> the question is, can the republican party handle the truth? well, joining me now and he showed up in person, i guess to make sure he can finish his answers, is former rnc chair and msnbc analyst, michael steele. how you doing? >> good to be in. >> and bob shrum, democratic strategist and professor at new york university. thank you both for being here. michael -- >> glad to be here. hi, guys. >> how you doing, bob? >> i was going right into michael, bob.

i'm sorry to even let you respond. i don't usually get michael this close to me so i got to swing while i got him. >> i got to duck. >> is huntsman giving inconvenient truths about the gop in public? >> i think so. it is a pretty gutsy move to make. now, the question is, when he's in california, at the reagan library in a couple of weeks, meeting with romney on one side and bachmann on the other and so forth, will he still bring that gain to the table? if he zp, if he sustains this level of conversation, in which he is calling them out and he is trying to be very clear and definitive, what is your plan, what are you going to do? that gives him some juice. gets people to pay more attention. the question is, what is your plan? what are you putting on the table? it is a very interesting dance. you saw pawlenty. you blink on monday or tuesday and it doesn't go anywhere, let's see where this is going.

>> you have been a strategist and he didn't just challenge this on their plan. he said bachmann, what kind of world is she in? calling them fringe, extreme. pandering. zero substance. i mean, that is strong language. and if he does that standing next to them at the reagan library, that would be nothing short of dramatic. >> well, i think that's right. i think that -- he has put his bet down. i agree with you and entirely agree with michael, which is not my position. >> not only he sees it but a lot of people see it. i dent want to hurt him by seconding what he said but he makes a lot of sense. i suspect that your friend willard mitt romney thinks some of same things but this is his shot. his here. he's not going to offend anybody in the gop.

he is going to try it cling to that front-runner status, which i think is pretty thread bare in comparison to romney, and get the nomination. hunts hannahuntsman, he hopes something is ignited here but he hopes to 2016 or beyond that, at a point he can turn around and look at the gop and say we need it look at a different and centrist direction. >> it'll be a different gop overall by 2016 if they lose in 2012 for sure. >> no question about that. it is a big gamble for huntsman, but sarah palin is still lingering around the side lines. and karl rove is still trying to promote her candidacy. what is he up to, michael? >> i scratch my head on that one. i don't know what he is up to. >> let me let you hear what he is saying. >> let's listen to it. >> you interpret republicanease to me.

>> i'm pretty good at that. what got me fired. >> she has a schedule next week that looks like that of a candidate, an celebrity. >> this is her last chance. she either gets in or gets out after this visit next week. i think she gets in. if you're sarah palin, you is just show up. the money comes, the people come. >> if you're sarah palin, you just show up. the money comes, the people come. you couldn't get a better promo than that. >> and there is truth and there is also real risk to it as well. because you do have the bachmann energy that is out there. you now have the perry energy out there. so what part of that wing of the party are you prepared to carve up further to try to step into this race. there is a lot of calculations on her part at this point. i just don't see that kind of energy particularly laying down 50 state strategy to get the ballots, across the country. in the next few weeks or months to get the money in the door so you can be competitive. there's a lot there. but knowing sarah palin as i do,

i would not sur surprise me. she can bring that to the table, i just don't know how much leg it has. >> given the economy, given the level of unemployment, given what is going on in libya, around the world, do you think america could imagine sarah palin, michele bachmann, getting the 3:00 call in the morning or even rick perry? i mean, when it comes down to it, don't you have to give people the kind of personality that would make them feel comfortable and the leadership ability to make rational and reasonable decisions? >> yes. >> two points, that's why there is a good poll now, and it is pretty amazing and unprecedent in modern american politics. the president has dire numbers, on his handling of the economy, on the direction of country, his approval as you showed earlier in the show, slipped strongly.

and yet yet in most horse race polls, and not all with you about most, he leads romney less than other republicans. last week in colorado and north carolina, two states republicans would have to take back, there are new polls showing that president had pretty secure leads. north carolina more narrow, colorado more generous. secondly, i want to do something else i don't normally do. i want to defend karl rove. i don't think he wants -- or wants it get sarah palin into this because she will take votes away from bachmann and perry. his own view, and i think he is right about this, is that neither of them can win a general election. and it's not just personal, it is political calculation. he wants a republican candidate who has a real clans. he's not sure that's romney. it is about all he can look at that makes sense. but he is also one of those people that have talked about chris christie going into this or paul ryan who has the plan it voucherize medicare.

>> let me ask you that, harry can't win and is it a grudge? bachmann can't win? i mean, is this a backboard shot that you really use palin as the backboard to get somebody else in the basket? >> i think there is bank so the there. i agree with that. i think there is all kinds of stuff going on in the world when it cups to the politics of this campaign. listen, michele bachmann, nor sarah palin will sit back and wait and get the word from karl rove on whether or not they stay in this campaign or they get into it. so let's be clear about that. number two, perry had a great week last week. let's see what happens in the next few days. you've got the situation now with romney kind of again playing the rose garden strategy. i don't know how effective that's going to be. given the fact that he just got, you know -- >> i'm going to tell you about that -- >> but he is getting a bigger

garden. but the fact is, that right now, as things shake itself up a little bit, that's good. there is a positive dynamic that is long overdo. i want to see one of these individuals show me and show the country, show the country, they have the metal, a to be president, and b, to go after this job in a way, as you just noted, gives confidence to the american people. >> i would settle for getting elvis's birthday right. let me ask you this, we're in new york tonight. >> yes. >> and bob teaches in new york. we hear the name of governor george pataki thrown in. is that serious or is that just some friends of his trying to bring him back up? >> i don't think it is just friends trying to bring him back up. i know the governor had at one time talked earlier in the spring about looking at rudy giuliani. >> is someone saying rudy should be the vice presidential candidate for rick prry? >> that's an interesting

thought. i'm sure there are folks talking about that. >> bob, would you ever want perry as president as giuliani as vice president. >> well, it is not going to happen in the republican party for the same reason that john mccain couldn't get joe leiberman, couldn't pick tom rich, former governor of pennsylvania wp rudy giuliani is pro choice, too moderate on social issues for most of the republican party. i can't imagine rick perry, if he gets the nomination with a base he has, doing that, i think he is much more likely to go with someone like marco rubio. finally, i don't think george pataki, and i can say this and maybe michael can't, i don't think he has much more of the chance of being the republican nominee next time than i do. >> it would be like that secretary of state, every night the president goes to bed, giuliani would be saying, i'm in charge. thanks for your time this evening. >> take care. >> mitt romney is planning some home repairs.

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willard mitt romney, he's just an average joe. in 2008 he owned four separate houses across the country bp but like a lot of americans in this tough economy, romney wanted to streamline his lifestyle. back then his spokesman said, quote, they have more space than they need so they are down sizing and simplifying. so in 2009 romney sold his utah ski lodge which fe featured eight full bathrooms for 4 pillon. then dumped his belmont massachusetts home. then took up residents in a nice home outside boston. romney kept the $10 million home in new hampshire and bought a lovely ocean front property in la jolla. which includes, five bathrooms, lap pool and spa. and a deck with panoramic views of the pacific erosion for $12 million. this, ladies and gentlemen, is

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the first national memorial for martin luther king, jr. finally opened to the public today. king is the first nonpresident and first person of color to be on it on the national mall. nbc's maros is live near the memorial site, good evening. >> good evening reverend. you can see over my shoulder, this has been a long time in the

making. $120 million spent and today for the first time ever it was open to the public. within an hour of opening, hundreds of visitors passed through to see the memorial and the crowds did not stop coming all day. it is still packed there. right now. now earlier this morning before the memorial was made available to the public, we got a chance to tour it a little bit and get a sneak peek and see for the very first time since its completion. >> the main part of the memorial consists of tle parts. these two represent the mountain of despair. visitors will immediately come upon the stone of hope featuring that large granite statue of dr. king. the concept for this memorial comes from the famous speech made on the march on washington in 1963 where dr. king famously said out of the mountain of despair comes a stone of hope the memorial has two large walls containing 15 of dr. king's famous quotes all hand etched into the granite. on the center piece, the granite

sculpture of dr. king standing more than 30 feet tall. the first such memorial to an african-american. now all this week there are events leading to the official dedication. there will be a public expo at the convention center and civil rights concert. officials here in d.c. are expecting up to 300,000 visitors. people pouring into the city p.m. president obama is scheduled it speak so it'll be a big week and big event on sunday to recognize this milestone of this memorial here in d.c. reverend? >> thank you. we'll be there, as you know, and saturday is the big march around jobs and justice. and joining me now and joining me on saturday and sunday is national radio personality and comedian ricky smiley. thank you so much, ricky, for being with us tonight. where y is it important for to you come and be part of this weekend to march and to stand as the official unveiling of this

monument happens. >> first of all, thanks for having me on your show, reverend al, and thanks for coming on my show. we have to continue to let people know that the dream is still alive. back when i was growing up, reverend al, when you joined the church, along giving your life it christ, you have to join the naacp and aclc. back when martin luther king, jr. picture was over every single fire place and his birthday was sacred even before president regan signed it into a holiday, it is important to keep it alive. you dent hear a lot about you talk about dr. ding and his life and legacy any more. i'm so glad this monument is being done. i'm so excited about being with you on saturday on the front line, generations later, on that march, still marching for the poor and still keeping the foit and dream alive. >> we are so excited. you, who have so much influence on lot of young people, millions

listen to you every morning, how do we get young people more involved in voting. no matter who they vote for and involved in the things dr. king gave his life for, ricky? >> right. and you just hit it on point, reverend al. dr. king, you know, gave his life just so we could have the rights it vote and enjoy the things that we get to enjoy just like jesus christ died for our sins. he made sacrifice, sacrifice his life, and we need it pay respect to that. and try to live better, try to do better. and try to you know, try to just live a good life and not allow his death to be in vein. you know, in t is so important, reverend al, that we continue to keep his dream and legacy alive. >> well, i appreciate you coming on tonight. we are really excited about you joining us. leading that march saturday. and being with us sunday. ricky smiley, thank you for your time tonight. >> and i'll make sure i tell all of miss listeners to get

involved, get on a bus, train, airplane, however you get there, get there. it is so important. so i'm thankful and blessed to have the opportunity to join you. >> god bless you and thank you for that. it is important that all-americans, of all races, all kind of economic backgrounds, come together this weekend and stand up for jobs and stand up and remember a man who sits there now on the banks of the potomac. we have memorial for those who founded the country. we have those who help interpret what the country was about. we have those that saved the union. now we have one