we asked at the top of the show what you're doing up this hour. our producer has answers. rob, what are they saying? >> hannah writes -- after a long night of painting the house, i overslept until 3:00 p.m. yesterday. i need to you're up in the middle of the night painting your house? how about one more. >> tom writes i'm feeding last night's leftover eggplant parmesan to the possum in my yard. >> yes, our viewers. we don't have that demo yet. morning joeing on sta ing ostar. from benghazi to the western

mountains, the libyan opposition courageously confronted the regime and the tide turned in their favor. over the last several day, the situation in libya has reached a tipping point. as the opposition increased its coordination from east to west, took town after town and the people of tripoli rose up to claim their freedom. for over four decades, the libyan people had lived under the rule of a tyrant who denied them their most basic human rights. now the celebrations that we've seen in the streets of libya shows that the pursuit of human dig mitty is far stronger than any dictator. >> good morning, it's tuesday, august 23rd. 6:00 in the morning here in new york city. with us onset, mike barnicle, ed rendell, a man who's been on it tv for 24 consecutive hours are

michael steele. and washington correspondent katty kay. you look rested to me. >> if everyone took a serious amount of time off in the summer, they, too, would look rested. the possum feeder needs you. >> people feeding eggplant parmesan. >> i'm canceling my vacation next year. >> i want to get your take on this. we have new developments out of libya. day after world leaders praised rebels for their surmg ge into tripoli, there is uncertainty filling the city. rebel forces claim they still control a majority of the capital of libya including green square, but the opposition acknowledges it faces a fierce

fight to take over gadhafi's compound. this comes as one of gadhafi's sons, saif, who was believed to be captured, he doesn't look captured there. those are pictures from last night. he made an appearance in a hotel where the foreign press stays. gadhafi's heir and parent saying his father's regiare regime lur in to a trap. he spoke to a press roert in ep the back of a car. >> these are our people and we live here and we are going to win. because the people are with us. that's why we're going to win. >> the exact location of know mar gadhafi is still unknown, his son says the libyan leader is safe and in tripoli.mar gadhafi is still unknown, his son says the libyan leader is safe and in tripoli. there is speculation he's in his fortified compound. new satellite imagery shows the

home is still largely intact, although there are reports of plans for a new set of nato air strikes on the facility. meanwhile president obama weighed in from his vacation yesterday speaking about what he call calls a fluid situation. >> i want to emphasize that this is not over yet. as the regime collapses, there is still fierce fighting in some areas and we have reports of regime elements threatening to continue fighting. although it's clear that gadhafi's rule is over, he still has the opportunity to reduce further blood shed by explicitly relinquishing power to the people of libya and calling for those forces that continue to fight to lay down their arms for the sake of libya. >> so yesterday we saw pictures of the jubilation in the streets of tripoli as the rebels swept in and now today it looks like at least a hint maybe of uncertainty and what so many of us talked about yesterday, which was can these rebels come together, are they organized enough not only to take out

gadhafi, but to fulfill the promise of a government and some sort of a coalition to run the country afterward. >> it's always been tempting to think this is moving so dramatically that it has to be speedy. that we're also going to have some fast resolution, we'll have peace and democracy flaring in these countries that haven't had it for decades. and what we're seeing is a little bit of that reality check, that we need to bear in mind because this will not be an easy process, there are no civil institutions to speak of in libya. and rebels themselves as you suggested are not that monlg fuss group. there are and itity gadhafi forces, there are people that have been pro gadhafi in the past that have defected, there are different areas of the country represented. and it's sort of hard to imagine how they would go forward maintaining that sense of opportunitity and how the rebels

hams the next few weeks and mochts will be critical in telling the west what libya in the future will look like and dictating to the west what they can do in response. >> and those pictures of gadhafi's son reveal a larger story which is that we don't quite know what the rebels are up to. they said they had captured him. this is a great victory. they brought in a couple of their sons and here is he standing in front of a hotel giving interviews to reporters. >> the rebels are disorganized and it seems like it's a wild scene, but you can tell the tide of movements. there's no going back. gadhafi can't rule that country and i think it's just a matter of time. interesting thing is egypt. how long since they overthrew mubarak, and will doesn't seem to be any progress being made there. throwing out someone is easier than governing itself. but i think here's where the international community has to

help. i was in the reserves and my unit was called military government, then it shifted to civil affairses. and our task was to go into countries after there had been a regime change and help assist the civilian government. we did that in haiti. we did that in iraq. my unit, not me. >> this was not world war 1? >> why do i come up here? oh, i'm getting paid. >> always a good reason. at least you're honest about it, governor. michael, gadhafi will go. it's a matter of time. and we know that the united states has already worked with nato and others. but it's tough going. who do you pick as the leadership? >> it is tough going. you look at anyone who has 17 different spellings of his name can't last long. the population's largely

confused by who is ruling the place. but in this case, everyone knows. and this guy has been a thorn in the side of this region it not the world for a long, long time. and there has been a concerted international effort to make regime change. that appears to be successful. but the one thing that always kicks me in terms of what the u.s. does when it engages in this stuff is that no one seems to think about turning the page and saying, okay, so once we go in and do all of this, ump plemepl minimize the confusion on the ground, what happens once the objective is obtained? i want to rule this region on, i want control over that. those things should also be part of the thinking process. and that's not clear at this point if that has been done.

>> but don't you think the french and british have sort of a -- >> they may have. >> the american response will be dib at a timed by what we've seen the american response to be so far and that is this idea of leading from behind. and i think the administration will be keen to say we're pot goi not going to tell libyans what we think they need. we'll wait for this npc to stabilize a little bit and then they will ask us what we can give. >> the brotherhood and other elements out there that people can't even define if it's friendly or nonfriendly. if we don't know who all the players are and what their interest is here, this is my only point, theneni e thinking process becomes a muddle and you get into the quagmires of the wrong people ascending to power

and control instead of those looking to create the kind of democracy or stability in the region that you need. >> is anyone here struck by the fact that given this fairly significant development in that area of the world, the collapse of the gadhafi regime, there is almost zero interest in it on the streets of the united states of america? zero. there is nothing out there, no pulse whatsoever. >> even with mubarak going, people were more excited than they are. and yet american forces have been involved. >> and it's interesting because mubarak was never our enemy. you'd think there would be at least an interest. >> i've watched you and listened to you, particularly the last few months really peel back on

some of these issues. isn't it true your point, governor, that while gath was oir enemy, in the last few years, people were sort of a kumbaya with gadhafi. all of a sudden he was enemy number one. weren't we just having crumb pets and tea with this guy six months ago? >> it was the moment he handed over his nuclear program.and tes ago? >> it was the moment he handed over his nuclear program. suddenly he was the guy would he could do business with. >> so what made him the bad guy all of a sudden? >> it goes back to lockerbie, his-sflf his -- >> was it what changed in egypt or was this something else that all of a sudden made the international community who was doing business with this qguy al of a sudden begin to look at him and go, you know what, we don't want to do that anymore. >> i think it was a realization that heed a has been a bad guy, but when you took back a lockerbie bomber and the guy was

actually living in relative comfort and maybe the cancer had a longer run than we had been told, i think that may have been a switch and he had lost all of his friends and reason you had international corporation was because gadhafi had no friends. the reason that gadhafi probably is still hold up in his compound as we're speaking is because there aren't very many cup countries that want to take him. so he had lost that enter national support. >> and he also lost whatever shred of support he had when he moved on benghazi and he looked look he was going to slaughter people. >> and he sounded like the old gadhafi. >> it's the visual of gadhafi getting off that plane undercut any relationship we had. let's turn to some presidential politics. in his latest attempt to look

toward the 2012 general election, mitt romney now says he will unveil a jobs plan on september 6th. romney's plan coincides of course with a speech from president obama that will it take place after labor day, one in which administration officials say the president will lay out his plan to create jobs and to jump-start the economy. this comes after romney rifle and utah governor jon huntsman renewed his tough talk yesterday a day after saying the gop field has, quote, zero substance. huntsman discussed the possibility of joining one of his competitors on a general election ticket as a vice presidential candidate. >> you can imagine running as a running mate to mitt romney? >> there would be too many jokes about that. i can't imagine it at all. >> what about to a tea party candida candidate? if michele bachmann said together we can create sweet

music, could you -- >> if you love this country, you serve will country. so if you're in a position to better the country, to bring whatever background you have to bear, whatever experiences to fine tune the person, i'd be the first to sign up. >> gallup poll coming up, if michele bachmann were to win, granted we're 14 months out, among registered voters, president obama comes out on top by four points. how about with ron paul? in a statistical tie with the president. rick perry, in a dead heat. according to gallup, mitt romney is the only candidate leading president obama in a potential 2012 match-up. that's 48-46. but again, within the margin of

error. >>. >> governor romney's case to be made to the american people is, one, he's a reasonable person, he isn't out this scaring the daylights out of people. two, he has governed successfully in both business and government. and three, he knows what to do with the economy. i was very impressed with a speech he made at the detroit civic club on the economy. if he rolls out a plan that has everything in it, not just the usual conservative bs, we'll cut taxes and everything will be all right, it's something that hasn't worked type and time again, in the 15 years that we've had the lowest tax rate, lowest highest tax rate in the last 65, only one of them was in the top 20 growth years in that 65 year period. it hasn't worked. but if he can roll out something

that has a number of different things in it, i think he has a chance to really impress and really take off. it's a gamble because if it's the same old -- >> i appreciate that very much, but you are so flat wrong, it's not even funny. but i know -- j knows a -- >> those are the facts. >> yeah, just like the numbers we just saw on the screen. >> what does it mean to you? >> this one sense they mean very the because it is 14 months out and a lot of my friends on the left are going to be sitting there dismissing them except if the numbers showed a widened margin for obama, then they would be, oh, my god, it this tells you how right we are. the reality is we have a strong stretch ahead of us in this race. i think you're beginning to see, and i said this a few weeks ago, these can dda candidates have t to distinguish themselves more

broadly. you're beginning to see that with huntsman. there's talk of an announcement in iowa this weekend. be that as it may, you're going to see a tightening here that i think will be incredible over the next three months. it has to happen because the base has to begin to lock down on who we're going to go to the caucus for in february, who we'll go to the primary for in new hampshire. and you're seeing those distinguishing rashes right n i. this is fresh stuff. >> don't you think that these numbers, all they are is a pure referendum on barack obama. >> and isn't it interesting that he has approval ratings in the high 30s at the moment, but actually 48% of people say they would vote for him. so more people are saying they would vote for him than appear to like his policies. and the fact that he's getting the same numbers against whichever republican is thrown up does suggest it's a referendum on him. and you look back in history, i

think that bob dole was ahead of bill clinton at this stage and al gore and bush were in a dead heat. >> ronald reagan was in an air tight race with walter mondale. >> so there you go. you've is read some of the history, as well. >> on holiday just like you. coming up, richard engel in tripoli, also howard dean will join the conversation. up next, the top stories political playbook. but first, todd santos. >> we're talking hurricane irene if you're just tuning in on the latest. a system still affecting puerto rico. it is moving away from puerto rico, but moving in to portions of the bahamas. still across a lot of the dominican republic, as well. we'll be talking about a system that could strengthen in to a category 3 which would make it a major major hurricane by tomorrow. and that's where you're quetding into the early morning hours of

thursday. so today is really the time to prepare across florida as well as the carolinas. there is a look at friday where we could be dealing with a cat 4 storm. landfall potential still a big question as we're talking about the early morning hours in to saturday, but notice again a lot of areas in the carolinas could have big implications. so a lot to talk about there. in the northeast, easy travel weather today from morning to philly to boston with sunshine in all three areas. temperatures in the 70s by later on today. philly actually getting up into the 80s. we'll see some of the better chance areas for thunderstorms over towards chicago as well as minneapolis. lots more coming your way in just a bit. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models,

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financial time, libya could return to the global oil market within weeks if the rebels succeed in does youring their victory, but it points out you

full resumption of oil output which averaged about a million and a half barrels per day is likely months it not years away. >> this morning times despite several conservative leaders callsing on him to run for r president. paul ryan decided against it. >> "washington post," the mar ten luther king jr.orial is open to the public. president obama will be there for the official unlveiling thi sunday.to the public. president obama will be there for the official unveiling this sunday.president obama will be for the official unveiling this sunday.to the public. president obama will be there for the official unveiling this sunday. i hear it is remarkable. anybody get a chance to see it? >> not yet. >> people who have been inside say it's an incredible tribute. >> where is it on the mall? >> right by the base, looks down to the water.

>> let's go to washington. >> how are you doing? >> let's talk about libya in terms of this gop race. how are some of the hopefuls reacting to the news coming out of libya? >> for the most part, it's been crickets for most of the candidates. they haven't had a lot to say and certainly haven't had a lot of specific things to say. the one candidate who has come out is jon huntsman who doesn't think that the situation was in the u.s. military interests and wasn't in the immediate threat there and we probably shouldn't have gotten involved. the other candidates have had much more luke warm responses. they basically praise the fact that there's been progress in libya but stopped short saying what they would pre-viscribe go forward for the u.s. >> most saying it's good that he's gone, not giving a lot of praise of course to president

obama for his leadership. after he went up against several of his candidates, jon huntsman turning his focus to president obama. let's watch. >> right now we have people on the fringes, president obama is too far for the left. zero leadership on dislay in terms of the president who should have used the buldly pulpit well ahead of time. he should have walked away from the teleprompter. he had 2 of this years to do the most important thing demanded by the american people. fix the economy, create an environment that is conducive to job growth. and he's failed us. he's a good man, he's earnest, but he's failed us on the most important issue of our day. >> what do you think about the ad? >> i find the huntsman campaign fascinating. if you had said six months ago that there would be a candidate who measures bat about 1%, yet e

is getting so much national attention for basically for his criticism of the republican party, and i think what he's worried about is that he doesn't want to just be seen as a truth it teller, in being a fierce critic of republicans. he wants to make it clear he's also a more fierce critic of president obama. and so that was a response to democrats using his comments critiquing the republican field in recent days to to say, listen, i'm critiquing obama and a lot of my truth telling will be aimed at president obama. >> governor rendell, you're shaking your head. >> i thought it was an excellent ad. because jon huntsman gets it. president obama's favorable personal rate beings are much hire than his job performance. people like him. jon huntsman recognizes that and the last part of that ad where he says he's a good man with you but he's failed us, that he another art that resonates.

te they like him, but they're beginning on to think he can't lead. if you go after him in a vicious way, that will turn voters off. but jon huntsman will be an awful tough candidate. >> is it going to work in the republican primary? because when they hear he's a good man, he's a nice man -- >> but they're never voting for jon huntsman anyway. >> those moderates, independent minded republicans who tend to wait up the general and leave the general course of the primary to more conservative members of the party. >> and the point he made on rachel maddow is he's going to get into states because he has the financial where with all to stand in there, he'll get into states where there are crossovers, where democrat s an independents can move. >> but there is no evidence that that segment of the republican party exists. he's getting 1% in most polls.

so until we get proof that that message resonates, he's in a lot of trouble. the governor is completely right, focus groups have been confineding exactly what the governor said. people really, really like obama at a personal level sork it will be very difficult, it will be a very carefully calibrated message that will work in attacking the president because they still like him even though they don't like the results on the economy and jobs and a lot of his policies. >> why hasn't huntsman gotten more lip then? >> because i don't think -- i think it's obvious if you look at the republican party, especially those that are active that the juncture in the campaign, they don't want a moderate guy who used to work f for obama. they want a meat eater. >> a look at the political playbook. >> he may not win given the mood of the country as a whole. >> we'll dig deeper. coming up, vice president joe biden on on his asian tour

sneaks in some mongolia wrestling. even a little archery. we'll show you the complete slide show. plus in monday night football, sha have been an utterly meaningless game between the giants and bears aboubears. it was until a season ending injury struck one of the giants stars. this is not good. can i have some ice cream, please ? no, it's just for new people. hey ! chocolate, vanilla or strawberry ? chocolate ! chocolate it is ! yeah, but i'm new, too. umm... he's new... er... than you. even kids know it's wrong to treat new friends better than old friends. at ally bank, we treat all our customers fairly, with no teaser rates and no minimum deposit to open. it's just the right thing to do.

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it's 6:32 in the morning. beautiful picture of washington, d.c. some news to tell you about this morning. prosecutors have formally moved to dismiss the charges in the three month old zest all assault case against dominique strauss-kahn. lawyers say they have enough evidence to show the alleged zest all encounter with a maid this spring was connecticsents . it calls in to question the accuser's credibility saying she consistently gave false testimony about this case and other aspects of her life including a past accusation of sexual as sought. her attorney requested a special prosecutor take over the case, but legal experts say that is

very unlikely. nick ashford as died. he along with his wife valerie simpson was half of the r&b duo ash fford and simpson. wrote and performed ain't for mountain high enough, i'm every woman. they worked with ray charles, diana ross and were unducted in the songwriters hall of fame in 2002. nick ashford died of throat cancer monday. he was 70 years old. and he was good. >> he was. >> the guy who wrote stand by me, that song, also died. 78. >> yes, he did. nick valerie simpson married 38 years. eli manning and the giants taking on the chicago bears. second quarter, brandon jacobs will slice through the defense

for an 18 yard touchdown. giants crushed the bears, unfortunately, that was considered a loss because of this. starting cornerback terrell thomas likely out for the season after suffering a torn ach on that play. it happened in the final seconds of the first half when he collided with a teammate. a crushing loss for thomas. he's in the final year of his contract. had a huge year last year leading the team in interceptions and tackles. a lot of people had him pegged to be a pro bowler. tigers and rays. verlander making a strong case to be the after the l cy young award winner. in the fifth, verlander strikes out rodriguez. an inning later. he goes seven, strikes out eight. tigers won 8-2. he is baseball's first 19 game winner. >> and in addition to the cy young, i think mcht vp. he

. >> ver lander is mvp? you're selling out some of your own guys. >> i understand that. >> adrian gonzalez? >> verlander. scary moment. tied in the ninth. watch this. indians pitcher chris perez nearly takes brendan ryan's head off. second consecutive batter. mariners make the indians pay. sac fly to center, play at the plate, got under the tag. mariners win the game 3-2. yankees had the name off. red sox looking to keep pace. last night taking on the rangers. mike nanpoli hits a bomb. >> you realize there's five weeks left in the season.

>> whatever you're going to tell yourself. >> guerrero deep fly to center. look at the catch. reaches out to rob guerrero. puts out the basket and hangs on as he collides with the wall. unbelievable play. we should point out the phillies are 6 1/2 up. atlanta's hot, though. they've won five in a row. >> i think it's good for the phillies. if they had a nine, ten game lead, they would coast all september. i think that atlanta is staying in there. >> phillies in a short series in the fall. >> braves are a good team, though. finally check out a little triple play. nashville sound taking on the omaha storm chasers. omaha with runners on first and second, a hard line drive to center. how is this a triple play? logan schaffer misreads it, keeps it alive. the ball goes off his glove, off

his head, back into his glove. we have to see this again. makes the catch. that's one. then he throws back in. they tag the runner who overran second base. there's two. >> and now the runner trying on get back to first. >> he didn't tag the runner, he stepped on first. wow. that's an 8-4-3 triple play. >> and joe is off on cussly a real star, but the biggest difference doing the show when joe's in the here, there's no soccer. >> all i know is man city is doing great and arsenal is doing bad. so i have a happy husband but a sad son. and my youngest son is a wlifr pool supporter and they just beat arsenal 2-0. hey, listen, this is not bad. >> how do the americans care about libya compared to care

about the gleenglish soccer results. >> up next, the opinion papers. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them with advice from local business experts

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♪ surprise yourself at livingsocial.com. sign up for free to save at least 50% on the best of your town. you've had no harsher critic than rick perry. >> texas has struggled and i feel badly for the children there. test as m texas may have the highest -- sorry, the lowest high school graduation rate in the country. >> this is all happening on governor perry's watch. >> it has. and it doesn't serve the children well, it doesn't serve the state well, doesn't serve the state's economy well and ultimately hurts the country. >> education secretary arne duncan talking to al hunt about

rick perry's record on education in the state of texas. and that brings us to our must read op-eds. >> we'll go to the "washington post" and richard cohen on governor perry. perry's reality gap. whatever global warming might or might not have done to polar bears, it has put rick perry's presidential candidacy at risk. the republican texas governor has diminishing credibility, emerging as intellectually unqualified to be president. he engaged in a brief dialogue with a child about evolution and came out the loser. perry said there are some gaps in the theory. if so, he is one. i take perry seriously. he is the these term leader of the vast nation of texas. the achievement warrants deep rts and after last week, considerable worry. it's not his thinking i fear, it's lack of any at all.

michael steele. he's one of your people. >> now he's my people? okay. no look, i think perry's made no secret about how he feels about the issue of global warming and the science and i think that it resonates to a certain level again with some in the base of the party. again, i appreciate cohen and others taking all of this stuff and trying to paint some tableau, but primaries are a different political animal than any other process these candidates will go through. so they're not trying to appeal to you or to me or to you or anyone else more broadly speaking. they're trying to appeal to a group of people that would give him the tracts they need to raise the money they need to begin to push that final button to become the nominee. so a lot of stuff that people write now and say about these folks, it's just wasted fodder because it doesn't really matter until they get that nomination and they're going head to head

against president obama and then you can see the tangle of the idea. >> can we suggest one thing, though? richard cohen could have written here i take him seriously, the vaths nation of texas, an oil and gas producing state. there is -- you can start looking at what rick perry has said on global warms as well as one of those areas where perhaps he's pay to go a certain con statistcon sit sense i back home. >> if he were the governor of california, he would probably have a different perspective. >> in an environment with like 15% real unemployment, i think he can say just about anything he wants on global warming. people want to talk about jobs. >> and i think to michael's point, there's ways to run in a primary without mortgaging your future in a general election. and i don't think governor perry has done that in the first ten

days. maybe he'll pull it back. but secondly, we have to be pair to governor perry, too. and i like arrest ane duncan, bk at te at texas students. because they have so many english as second language students, it's hard to chaech the same as montana or -- >> although jeb bush did it in florida. he totally changed florida's education standards by bringing hispanic students in to the mix and giving them a fair shot. so it's doable. >> doable, but its takes some time. >> and test as is nxas is pot n. it's a different dynamic, a full border state. and so you can see the equivalencies, but then again they don't exist because the realities are different for even of those gentlemen, a bush in florida and perry in texas. the broader point for me is this is the primary season.

some call it the silly season. it is the season where these guys and g after theals do thin distinguish themselves, sometimes good, sometimes bad. >> one of the truly interesting things is how politics has changed in a very brief period of time over the last eight or ten years. everything now is recorded. for matter what you say and where you say it, someone is going to capture it. >> will that make it harder to carve yourself in one channel as the primary candidate and then run in the general election as a different candidate? you used to be able to put some distance between yourself. >> because no one actually heard what you said. >> this is his stated position on climate change. does it worry you, michael, as a leader of your party to hear men who could be the leaders of the country rejecting the findings of science on things like climate change?

>> you know, not really. because when you get in the oval office and you have all of that -- all of those resources around you, the reality is governing becomes very different. to get out here an say certain things, whether you believe them or not, fundamentally the reality of governing changes that dynamic. so the signs and all of that comes together and you have to make a -- >> that almost makes it worse because you're saying it's just a cynical political play. i'm going to say this to win a primary, but i don't even actually believe it. >> no, will pa rk, i think he d it. and we can debate the science on global warming and that's probably where he bases a lot of his position on, the earlier arguments. but science has also changed the argument and you can see more the relevant -- the new reality that there are connections here. i think the governor will acknowledge those over the course of time. or course he's never been asked directly.

>> the one thing that he has done i think that is bothersome in the course of his brief campaign is when he was asked if the president of the united states loves this country and he says why don't you ask him or you'll have to ask him. that's troubling. that is troubling. >> and the an tis sis of what he did in that ad, huntsman said he's trying his best but he can't do it. >> and both of you made a good point about the numbers. the fact of the number that the republican problem right now is people like the president. they want to give the president a free shot, a fair shot to actually fix things and that's in their psyche right now. unless you can overcome that gap of 38% don't like him, 60% don't like his policies -- 60% like him personally, you have a problem. >> in a few minutu minew minuteg

in howard dean. always richa also richard engel. david letterman returned to his sew f show for the first time since he received a i didnjihadis threat. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] we've got all you need for back to school with low prices every day on everything. backed by our ad match guarantee. save money. live better. walmart.

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time for a little news you can't use. great stuff. vice president joe biden closing the book on his china trip and now traveling yesterday, he made a day trip, the first vice president of the united states to visit mongolia since 1944. he took in some traditional dancing, he watched some wrestling. and even took part in some archery. here we go. here he is meeting the wrestler and squaring off with him as though he wants to at that time guy down before giving him a hearty handshake and put something kind of medal around his neck. we'll walk you through his potential album. then he was given a horse which is a very important animal in mongolia. the vice president named it celtic. the horse got a little wild. secret service had to step between biden and the horse. not that pleased about being given away.

and then he met some camels. why not. holding the reins. and then it was time for some archery. this happens on your first try. then you reset it. and he's fine. beautiful. >> that was all right. >> that's some of the best vice presidential mongolian arche re i've ever seen. good to be vice president. >> imagine being told you're going to a place that no american has been since 1944. >> so you remember this story from a week ago where david letterman was threatened onnen a al qaeda website about for jokes he'd made about an al qaeda leader? well, yesterday last night, letterman was back for the first time since that news broke. and he took on the story. >> we have great and you had

denialses night in and night out, but it means a lot to me tonight. you're monday an audience. you're more like a human shield. i was talking to a guy from cbs, we were going through the cbs life insurance policy to see if i was covered for jihad. i'm an adult, i'm a big boy. this is the major leagues. b i told the joke. but the guy who wrote it, that really -- is he up there? there he is right there. that's the guy. i think you'll find this useful. it's a list of people who hate me. here, take a look. al qaeda, sarah palin, donald 2ru6r789, jay leno, nbc, bs doctor, the late show staff, the late show audience, the home audience, the national academy of arts and sigh tenlss, dave's neighbors, his mail man, the twist, the chinese, tone any danza, men, women, dogs, cat,

squirrels, turtle. we'll be back with part two after these words. >> how great is dave. tone a tony danza hates dave letterman. love that. more "morning joe" in a minute. i'm robert shapiro. over a million people have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. so start your business,

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idea of getting rid of gadhafi. this guy was within of the worst agent tors e actors on on the w stage. i think we're pleased that he's apparently about to lose his position of authority.i think w apparently about to lose his position of authority. we hope that the new government is a more representative form of government. >> if indeed gadhafi goes down, you think the new government should hand over gadhafi to whom? >> to the united states of america would be my first choice. we would try him here and see that justice is done. it's unacceptable that this person does not face justice. i'd like it see him face justice as one of the first acts of a new government, hope any a more democratic representative form of government, a modern government. let's get al megrahi back to court and seeking the real justice he deserves. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's 7:00 in the morning here on new york city.

joining the table, former governor of vermont, mr. howard dean. good to see you. >> how are you? >> i'm doing well. i just want it tell the people of vermont how good you are for that state. the former governor just closed a real estate deal with mike barnicle in the space of about 90 seconds. >> yeah. >> it's the last socialist republican in america. we love it. either's great. >> a haven for people. i want to get your take on what's going on in libya. new clashes erupting in tripoli as rebels wage fierce street battles but forces loyal to moammar gadhafi reportedly in front right outside of the libya leader's compound. after the opposition swept into the capital in what seemed to be a quick collapse of the are a geechl. rebel forces claim they control a majority of tripoli, but they

acknowledge a fierce fight. follows the appearance of saif alis lam in front of a hotel. he vowed to, quote, break the backbone of the rebels.lam in f. he vowed to, quote, break the backbone of the rebels. >> these are our people and we live here and we are going to win. because the people are with us. that's why we are going to win. >> what are your thoughts as you've been watching this as we've gone sort of shooting gunks gunk guns in the air to the more sobering day. >> one is the substance of what's going on in libya, obviously the rebels are doing better than expected. this happened very quickly. you make a lot of enemies after 4 42 years in power. and the rebels aren't terribly well trained. so it's pot over, but pretty much over.

the other interesting thing city always favored governors for presidential candidates because they have expeecutive experienc. but they have lack of foreign policy experience. he says we should turnover gadhafi to the united states for prosecution. first of all that makes no sense. second of all, there an internation international criminal court warrant out, so he goes to the hague, period. and he didn't know the answer. it's not a big deal. can he learn the answer, but that is the one pit fall governors have. >> unlike president obama who had vast foreign policy experience. >> he didn't, but that's -- it's into the a big mistake, but romney makes almost no mistakes. and that was an interesting one. >> what about the president's handling of this situation? he asked for patience and he got it eventually. >> the president is looking really good as commander in chief. and that's not what the election will be fought on, it will be fought on the economy. but he's getting you are troops out of iraq. it will be almost all gone by the end of will it year if not awful them.

the afghan border is being drawn down. osama bin laden is dead and gadhafi is on his way out. nobody's had a foreign policy record like that. not ronald reagan, not george w. bush, nobody. you'd have to go back to harry truman before -- or franklin roosevelt before you get a record like that. >> and it was interesting when rick perry took on obama over being commander in chief and saying how great it would be for the troops to have a commander in chief who they could respect who had actually served, but i don't think it resonated about a this is the guy that got osama bin laden and i think the white house feels very confident in terms of the president's reputation and his relationship with the troops and with the military. and his reputation as commander in chief. he's been tough when it comes to prosecuting the war on terror. >> that's the irony. he's had more drone strikes than

anyone can ever imagine and i can just hear my friends on the left screaming if george bush had these indiscriminate strikes and drones going and bomb being and doing that. but the interesting thing for a lot of us is to see the president take the bush doctrine, take large measure the bush foreign policy even down to the personnel and continue to push that given how hard he drove against it as a candidate for the office. >> he did not agree to the bush doctrine. >> you keep the secretary of state and you keep the vart majori vast majority of the policies in place. you up the ante by going into an area of the medal east that we're not even engaged in, libya. the level of engagement by the administration again by the candidate versus the president to me is very stark and has not been lost on a lot of folks. and i'm not complaining about it. i think it's worked to his

benefit. but as you said at the end, this is not going to be the determination tomorrow for his re-election. osama bin laden notwithstanding. it will be jobs, it will be the economy and growth for the country. >> i can't see george bush ever saying to the french you take the lead on this one. >> that won't happen. >> that's the big difference. he said we don't always need to have america on the front line, we don't need to get involved. >> but it was the bush foreign policy was there. >> i think this is the obama doctrine. when obama was running for president, he talked about doing things in real concert with others, being a member of the family of nations instead of being full the texas cowboy out in front of everybody else and come along with us. that's exactly what he did. you're right, it's extraordinary that he would go into a partnership with the british and french and let help a tthem tak lead. >> but that's with respect to libya. that's not what happened in afghanistan. he upped the ante in afghanistan. he committed the surge in

afghanistan after railing against the surge in iraq. so the reality of it is this one little sliver you can identify as a doctrine. i'd say it's a happen stance because the president clearly did not define at the time which is why you had so many people on the right and the left concerned about what this policy would ultimately mean for the united states. so i think when you step back from it more broadly speaking to your point, the president has been able to take a foreign policy situation, adapt to certain realities on the ground, recognize foreign part pers in the french and british, and lead from behind as a doctrine if you want to call it with respect to libya. but with respect to the other aspects of the middle east, i think there's been a consistency there that has yielded benefit deposit hs for him. >> i was laughing at the lead from behind. you can't resist the fox type.

>> i think a democrat came up with that phrase. >> to your point about about what will lead the charge, can anyone recall a time when we have three wars and you walk up and down main streets and no one really cares about it unless you have a family member in the military. less than 1%. >> in fairness, michael talked about the progressives, i think they're giving obama some slack because the troops are coming home. here we are almost in september and the iraqi government has not said said, gee, we'd like you to stay. which means these troops will have to get in a boat and put all the armored personnel carriers in a boat and leave. and that's not going to be on december 31st. they to be out by december 31st. so essentially we'll be out of

rauk a iraq. the surge is going back to its regular status. so i think it's not a debate -- mob debates on the left or right whether it was a great idea or right to kill osama bin laden. there's in the a lot of big differences in terms of where the public-of what the public is debating about on the foreign wars. >> we talked you have to wait an hour and a half into a debate until afghanistan is spoken. but we're talking about war this is places we've been for ten years and it doesn't come up over the course of a couple weeks. >> and you look at the difference between it this campaign and the 2004 campaign where the overwhelming issue was the war in iraq and whether to carry on prosecuting that war, whether to bring the troops home. and i remember being up in new hampshire and demonstrations all over the streets by people saying this is the central issue, we have to get the troops home and now nobody is really talking about it. there is some this feeling -- i think there is an understanding that obama wants to basically he said afghanistan, he's going to

start bringing those troops home in as great numbers as he can and that neutralizes to some extent what's happening in:00 because people see this is on the way out. jobs is not on the way out. this is going to carry on being a big issue and people can't see a lights at the end of the done the which i abotunnel on the ec. >> we want to bring in richard engel, he's live for us again this morning in tripoli. what's the latest there? >> reporter: we're about a mile and a half away from gadhafi's compound and there has been heavy fighting in this area as i suspect during the course of our conversation you'll be hearing exchanges of gunfire, both rockets incoming and outgoing. for the last hour or so, there has been heavy fighting. we've heard that the rebels have brought in reinforcements and are trying to storm inside gadhafi's compound. that is the last remaining strong hold in this city still held by gadhafi's forces. that is what we can see on the

ground. gadhafi of course, his whereabouts are unknown, but gadhafi's son, saif, very much like his father claimed that the government is still intact and in control of the city. >> what is your sense -- we're looking at pictures of saif yesterday coming outside of the hotel. we're also seeing a live picture behind you of smoke coming up from the compound. what is the end game here for moammar gadhafi? if he's indeed inside that compound surrounded by government forces, what does he think is going to happen here? >> well, that file battnal battd be happening right now. you can hear the explosions, you can see the smoke from a different angle. we can't see it from we are because there are buildings between us, but the end game

could be a battle. and if he is inside, i don't see anyway that this would end in anything but him either being killed or captured. if he is inside. >> richard is there any -- >> reporter: or the rebels lose. so it's still fluid. >> you can sense any larger command and control capacity among the rebels on the ground now that they are gathered in one place in tripoli. >> reporter: not really. the rebels fight in small units and communications are extremely difficult. the rebels have a very poor radio network that sometimes works between cars, most often doesn't work between cars. so they are able to communicate in a group of 10 or 15. but on a national level, no, they are not really able to communicate. the reason they were able to come into tripoli in such large numbers is because the rebels took the city called zawiya about 30 miles away, the rebels were all gathered there and were able to communicate face to face

and decided they were going to do this push on to tripoli together. once they're spread out in the city, tripoli has about 2 million people will it, there's very bad communications, they're really not that organized once they're here. >> richard, we've got the bbc's katty kay with us. >> i think i heard you just say that all the rebels lose. do you think that is a possibility? >> reporter: i think it's a possibility they could lose today. i'm not sure if they're going to be able to take gadhafi's compound. the compound is like a military base. it has high walls, it clearly has a lot of artillery and other weapons inside of it. tanks according to witnesses. and they might not be able to go inside without more nato help. we've heard from witnesses that there were nato air strikes and that perhaps part of the wall of the compound has been destroyed which would allow people potentially to get in and engage in some direct combat. if that happens, that will give

the rebels something of an advantage. they have numbers. they just don't have the weapons. i think over time, yes, they will overwhelm this compound, but they meet lose the battle and still win the war. >> richard, the rebels have rushed tos assure the national press that they still control just about all of tripoli outside of that compound right there. is that your impression from being on the ground? >> reporter: yes, that we've been driving around all day, there are not many enclaves controlled by gadhafi forces. how firmly they control the city is a different story. but there are rebel flags, rebel graffiti, rebel check points. just driving here, we must have passed through a rebel check point every mile or so. so they are definitely on the ground spread out and in control of the vast majority of the city. but the 10 or 15% that they do not control might be the most important part because it is the most fortified and the most heavily armed.

>> richard, you mentioned cause from 10 or 15 miles away to that point. what is the degree of danger traveling around tripoli? >> reporter: well, where we are right here, there is a degree of danger because there is a battle under way. but outside of the city, there's not much of a danger. the rebel check points are set up. i think the real danger is being hit by friendly fire. the rebels tend to fire their guns in the air. sometimes they fire them accidently at each other. so there is the element of chaos. but there is not fighting going on as far as we have seen anywhere but within the couple square miles around gadhafi's compound. p. >> and even as you speak, we're seeing a new cloud of smoke rise from the com pound about a mile and a half behind you. richard richard engel, stay safe. we appreciate it. coming up, the chairman of

the house intelligence select committee warns don't celebrate in libya just yet. mike rogers will join us. also eugene robinson and john wiseburg's profile of jon huntsman. but first todd santos with a check on the forecast. >> i just want to bring in you to what's going on thunderstorm wise today. it will cause travel problems around minneapolis, likely by later on today over towards chicago. a quick look at the radar shows some of the storms making their way into wisconsin. much of the rest of the country looking fairly quiet weather wise. maybe central and southern florida getting in on some of that action. so 80s across areas from d.c. southward, even nin90s in north

georgia. there's the latest look at irene. it's a category 2 storm. still affecting portionses of puerto rico as well as hispaniola. moving into the bahamas. thursday, friday time frame could be a big issue across a few areas of the southeast. a number of areas needed to say tuned. time to prepare is now.

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i've been eyeball to eyeball with him. he must be going through some version of on the one hand saying death before dishonor, i'll go down fighting, i'll be a martyr, but say what you want about gadhafi, a very strange and dangerous man, but he cares about his family. he's got to be worried about his

family. >> dan rather speaking last night to rachel maddow. joining us how from minneapolis, congressman keith ellison. also with us in washington, washington bureau chief. thank you both for being with us. congressman, i'll start with you. in your statement yesterday, he said libyans should know they have a partner in the united states. what exactly should be the united states' role going forward with regard to libya? >> i think the united states should neighboring clear that where there are basic needs of food, clothing, shelter, that the united states aid agencies are there no the libyan people. we also should be at the ready and continue to work with nato to deal with this last portion of tripoli which is still under gadhafi control. and then moving forward, the libyan community needs to build a state apparatus which gadhafi never really allowed to be built, a civil society and of

course an economy, to be there to help the libyan people do all those things. the people of libya are fully prepared to be a full-fledgeded responsible of the international community and we should be there to help that happen. >> we don't know where gadhafi is this morning and we received reports including one from richard engel that there is now a sustained assault on a military compound within tripoli. what would happen if this mystery of where gadhafi is goes unresolved for a week or so and nato were to put french troops on the ground or british troops on the ground in seeking gadhafi is th ? what would the reaction be? >> i don't think the libyans want would thes on the boots on the ground. i think it's a question of time.

the era of gadhafi is over for all intents and purposes and we've seen a major embarrassment, humiliation for the transition of authority when they announced publicly and through the chairman of the transitional authority that saif al islam was capture d and he ws not. in the end this, is not a highly disciplined group. most of these people were ordinary libyans, they found themselves fighting a ruthless regime. they will sort it out, but definitely the next step now after the fate of gadhafi is determined one way or the other, when captured ordinary killed, is to restore ordinary to tripoli and to start the job of

beginning a transition. >> so if they are as unorganized and as undisciplined as you just indicated, what happens to what we would call to a transitional government? who will organize that in. >> they have to organize it, but you have to keep in mind again, and this is a society that was pulverized over the last 42 yearsing h years, libya is has no voluntary political associations and the whole regime will crumble. unlike the situation in tunisia and egypt, these people will start from scratch. in theory they are v. lots of money, but they do lack the technical capabilities. there are a lot of libyan talents oversea, many are going back to libya. that's why they need the support of the neighboring states,

europeans, united states, can main a today. nobody says the transition period will be easy. transitions by nature are bumpy and precarious. even when you have an organized group. libya you have to keep in mind was kabcould b cobbled together different regions. >> congressman, thanks for joining us. over the weekend, you tweeted libyans in minnesota are very happy that the end is near for gadhafi. do you think picking up on what he was saying that you might see libyans from your own state going back now to help with the transitional process in the country? >> in fact i know several who are making plans to do to that. some are from the financial services sector. others are from the small business sector. but they're all pretty jubilant about the prospect. of course cautiously know

because they know security is not fully restored. but here in minneapolis, i have friends who lost family members in misrata and other parts of the country and they're anxious to go back and rebuild their state, although it wouldn't be easy and the international community needs to stay lenext libya. >> they need a lot of money. we have all kinds of debt problems and we need some of that money at home. where do we get the money? >> well, the fact is that libya is not a country without wealth or resources itself. but let's also just say the united states is not broke as some members of the body i serve in seem to say. the united states is the largest economy in the world. and the strongest military and we have an international responsibility to provide aid in situations like this. i think that that's what usaid is set up for, other institutions united states has

at the ready to help build that civil society so. but this will be a libyan effort. it needs to stay a libyan effort and that's why i'm just looking forward to international collaboration led by libyans to bring libya fully to the table of nations. >> what are the odds that this does not go well and we end up with a long period of tribal retribution in a nation where literally 90% of the people seem armed with heavy arrest way. arments? >> the egyptians and tunisians should be brought in because they have a vested interest in a secure and stable and hopefully more representative -- i don't want to talk about democracy in the future, but the neighborhood has an interest in a stable

libya. it's going to be digt. i don difficult. i don't think they need money. what they immediamee need is orl support. but first they have to restore order and then sort out the varying maybe diverse visions of the future. there are islamists, there are nationalists, there are various forces. and they need the international community support. so i think the situation is full of all sorts of points, but so far, we didn't see reckless agents of violence takes occurred in baghdad. >> and the fight continues. more clouds of black smoke rising. the fight continues. thanks both for your time this morning. >> thank you. up next, three months after the shocking allegations came to light, the prosecutors now abandon the case against

dominique strauss-kahn. details on what happened when we come back. [ female announcer ] what if your natural beauty could be flawless too? discover aveeno positively radiant tinted moisturizers with scientifically proven soy complex and natural minerals. give you sheer coverage instantly, then go on to even skin tone in four weeks. aveeno tinted moisturizers. but my data is doubling. and my servers are maxed out. [ male announcer ] with efficient i.t. solutions from dell,

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prosecutors have moved formally to dismiss the charges against dominique strauss-kahn.

the front page this morning of the new york "post" calling the whole thing a fraud. lawyers say they have enough evidence to show the allegedkco consensual. ron allen has more detail. >> reporter: it all began with this dramatic, dominique strauss-kahn would hit as head of the imf, his chances of becoming president of france apparently gone. but while he kept a low profile, free on bail and paying tense of thousands of dollars to live in this luxury townhouse, the case against him began to unravel. o thousands of dollars to live in this luxury townhouse, the case against him began to unravel. his accuser stood silent moments after prosecutors told them they would drop the case. >> manhattan district attorney cyrus vance has denied the right

of a woman to get justice in a rape case. >> reporter: in court papers, prosecutors said diallo has provided shifting an inconsistent versions of the events. that in virtually every interview, she has not been truthful on matters great and small. and that it is impossible to resolve the question of what actually happened in strauss-kahn's suite. legal experts say prosecutors had little choice. >> the reality is the district attorney has to rely on the credibility of his witnesses. >> reporter: prosecutors say diallo's falsehoods included an emotional story about being gaining raped in her mate difference country that they ever happened. they say she's given at least three different vergs of what she did in the minutes right after the alleged attack in strauss-kahn's suite. >> they told me i want you to

know that i am innocent. >> reporter: a news consultant has been in touch with strauss-kahn since the arrest. >> i think his mind is shared between open and anxiety. he hopes it will be soon the end. >> reporter: that end may come later today during what's expected to be a very brief final appearance before a judge. >> ron allen reporting for us on the end it looks like of the dsk case. up next, eugene robinson. jacob weisberg. ♪

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someone like mitt romney? in there would be too many jokes about that. no, i can't imagine it at all. >> what about to a tea party candidate? if michele bachmann said you're the other part of the party here, together we can create sweet music, could you count on such an idea? >> if you huyou love this countu serve this country. so if it you're in a position to better the country, to bring whatever background you have to bear, whatever experiences to use in fine tuning our future, i'd be the first to sign up. >> joining us from washington, eugene robinson. great to see you this morning. >> good to be here. >> we've also got with us here onset the editor in chief of slate.com jacob wiseburg wieisb

look at his piece. jacob, we've been talking a little bit about jon huntsman this morning. he can't seem to pop above the single digit mark. >> it's a symptom p what's going wrong with the republican party, that jon huntsman who was a mainstream republican sort of a bush one republican, is not getting any traction and in fact he's being accused of things of being moderate, centrist, reasonable. he breaks news when he says he believes climate change is real or accepts evolution. these are things that could be the common assumptions and instead huntsman is a marginal candidate. but in a way it makes his candidacy more interesting because he shine s a light on what's going wrornng.

it's been taken over by people who reject the new deal, who reject the federal reserve, believe that we don't need these institutions of government. a party like that can't claim the center, can't win elections. and i think for that reason, huntsman is the candidate that obama would probably least like to run against. >> but can win primaries. being the adult in the room may not be a winning argument in a primary. >> especially the early primaries. you have iowa where huntsman has decided not to run quite reasonably. but even what happens with a republican primary in new hampshire, south carolina, these are -- south carolina is it an unusually conservative state. it's skewed to the right. and they have a disproportionate influence in picking the party nominee. now, we have the former head of the rnc and dnc this is not a part i y of one problem.

it favors the base, it favors the extreme and produces an eventual all nominee who is further from the center than you would want. >> it does make you wonder at some point during the primary process or at the convention, do the republican leaders look at hunt huntsman and romney and say it's time to put a w up here in. >> not the w. >> but a w. and that's part of the challenge. certainly one of the things that i encountered coming in as chairman was a party that had been sha lacked in '06 and '08, trying to get back in the groove of winning again. to your point about the anarchists back there, they do win. they won last november big. 63 house seats, 600 state legislative races around the country. so the idea that the party has suddenly jerked to the right and become more conservative doesn't

add up because what i discovered was a call back to some of those fundamental issues of he wiprins that we believed. that was the thrust of 2009 and 2010. now we're in a different playing field because those issues get blown up because you're talking about a presidential race and how these viindividuals like a huntsman who i think would be a fine nominee for our party, in fact one of things, i'm sure howard did the same hinge when he was chairman, trying to put the best foot forward because the party isn't one faction or one peripher spec difference. so it's a real challenge.best f party isn't one faction or one per spec difference. so it's a real challenge. >> i don't mean to be catty, but this is a great line.spec diffe. so it's a real challenge. >> i don't mean to be catty, but this is a great line. jacob wrote this was a thinking man's candidate. there aren't any thinking people in the republican party.

i'm serious. name a thoughtful policy analyst in the republican party. not rick perry. not michele bachmann. look at all these people. huntsman is the real deal. >> mitt romney? >> the problem with mitt romney, he's thoughtful and smart and he's lived in the real world, but he's say roughly anything to get located. institu newt is great. he has a lot of interesting ideas. but his own friends will tell you that he comes out with ten ideas a day and only one makes sense. >> let's not make the broad sweep that there is no thoughtful republican. >> this aren't many. >> the 4% is beating you every time, my friend. >> not 2006 or 2008. >> but you couldn't hold it in 010. you had the house, the senate and the congress. >> i say we gave it to you. >> all right, sure. rewrite history. >> gene, chime in.

>> rick perry is thoughtful. he has a new theory of chemistry and physics that means that the group house effect that we've known about for 100 years and that's driving climate change actually doesn't happen. and rick perry apparently can prove that to us. he's the kind of flavor of the week in gop presidential politics. by the end of this first week of campaigning,ees are once again trying to find new candidates. paul ryan, chris chris i krichr. and that tells me that the party in terms of its basic philosophy, does it believe in science, does it believe in government at any level or is it just a bunch of patriotic an

arre an arrest kiss. >> so does huntsman stand a chance 1234. >> i don't think he stands much of a chance in the republican primary. however, if they nominate someone far to the right, if they nominate a rick perry, if he loses, i think the party could possibly come back to its senses and nominate a huntsman in 2016. who know what is will happen. but i think the point is not whether these people are individually republican candidate intel againligent or thoughtful. you're not allowed to be thoughtful or reasonable in that process. and if you watch the debate in iowa, and thought every one of thieves candidates put their hand up, i would not accept accept-huntsm accept-huntsman clearly regrets

doing that. the question isn't whether you're intelligent or not. >> and that was one of the things that i fought back depends as chairman. to gauge the level of republican or more importantly as conservative you are and i refused to go down that road because it is not a reflection of the party that i joined when i was 17, 18 years old because i believed then and still do now -- >> what happened to you then? you lost that battle. >> we didn't get those litmus tests in place. and you can say i'm not the chairman now, but that's not the point about me personally. the goal was that i refused it to see this party push itself to the edge and then over the edge with something stupid about sitting at the door with a little checklist saying, okay, you're pro-life, you're pro-choice. >> but all but one or two signed

that crazy pledge out there. >> you about that's part of the politi politics. you have your pledges on the left. we have them on the right. >> we do not. >> gee, gne, go ahead. >> you lost the battle against the checklist. it's in place. >> i don't think i lost to this extent. it's pot whether i'm there personally. it's whether or not the party commits itself to that type of engagement with the public and the fact that it hasn't and it clearly won't at this point i think is a good thing. i think that there is a broadening to come. i think there is still a maturity of the party politically after what has gone through over the last 10 or so years of, you know, seeing big government republicanism and all this other stuff that's confused the space. >> the old scenario going back

to richard nixons is right a little right after you get the nomination. but that has become so extreme, you get pulled so far to the right that you can't see the center by the time you get the nomination. and that's become self defeating for the republicans. and in a way, republicans are sort of up in arms at huntsman in the favor candidate of the democrats or liberals. if candidate. if liberals are pursuing their interests, they would be for michele bachmann. those are the candidates who are going to lead the republicans to disaster. the question is what's the self-correction mechanism on the right. are they going to figure out a way to deal with this election or next election? >> in the piece you deal with, what is the deal there? >> these are both big mormon families in utah. both have a lost money. there's an interesting mormon split. the romneys are more orthodox

mormon. the huntsmans are mixed, reform mormons or cafeteria mormons. huntsman's wife, mary kay was not mormon. they raised their kids partly mormon, partly emissco pal tradition. it's a different faith than mormonism. >> huntsman's reaction to piers morgan question was very telling about the way he feels about mitt romney. gene, where do we net out on this? is it a romney or perry party come november of 2012? >> it's looking like a perry party. maybe it will come to its senses, but i think jacob is absolutely right. it's good for the democrats if the republicans nominate one of these candidates far to the right because they can't get back to the center. >> eugene robinson, thanks for being with us. jacob weisberg, your piece in

the new issue of "vogue." coming up next the white house sends joe biden on an overseas trip. show you how he spends his time. watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ whistle blows ] oh! [ baby crying ] ben harper: ♪ what started as a whisper every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing. ♪ slowly turned into a scream ♪ there's an insurance company that does that, too. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

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>> back by popular demand. some of you have seen this already. some of you haven't. vice president joe biden spending the day yesterday in mongolia. many of you have asked to see this again. spent the day with the mongolia president. jumped over from china on his way east. he watched wrestling, dancing and moved over and did some archery. let's take this moment by moment. here he is with the wrestler, shaking his hand, he takes the guy down. joe biden. there he is, squaring off with the wrestler. then he was given a horse. he named the horse celtic, but celtic didn't take too kindly to the vice president. the secret service had to step in and get the horse away from the vice president. then he met with some camels.

that was good. led them around by the reins. then it was time for archery, finally. he's going to pull back here. he struggles at first and launches one into the stratosphere. happens to the best of archers. there he is, letting it fly. vice president joe biden, holding down the fort in mongolia for us. we are grateful to the vice president, aren't we? >> greatest vice president in the history of the united states. >> coming up next, the latest on the fluid situation in libya. more with michael dean, katty kay and governor ed rendell when we come back.

♪ >> from gazz zgazi, to the west mountains. they confronted the tide in their favor. over the last several days, the situation in libya has reached a tipping point as the opposition increased its positioning from east to west, took town after town. the people of tripoli rose up to claim their freedom. for over four decades. the libyan people lived under the rule of a tyrant. the celebrations we've seen in the streets of libya shows the pur suft human dignity is far stronger than any dictator. >> good morning.

it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. live look at new york city. mike barnicle, governor ed rendell and katty kay. we have new developments out of libya. what seemed to be a quick and stunning collapse of moammar gadhafi's regime, there is tension and uncertainty filling the city. rebel forces claim they control a majority of the capital of libya, including the symbolic green square, but the opposition acknowledges it has -- faces a fierce fight to take over gadhafi's compound where he is holed up. this is after one of his sons has been captured by the rebels. those are pictures from last night. he resurfaced. made an appearance in front of the hotel where the foreign press says. he says his father's regime had lured the opposition into a trap, vowing to break the

backbone of the rebels. he spoke with an associated press reporter in the back of a car. >> it is our country. it is our people. we live here and we die here. and we are going to win, because the people are with us. that's why we're going to win. >> the exact location of moammar gadhafi is still unknown, his son says the libyan leader is safe and in tripoli. there is speculation the elder gadhafi is staying inside his compound which has been heavily defended by loyalists. new satellite imagery shows the home is largely intact. there are reports of plans for a new set of nato air strikes on the facility. meanwhile president obama weighed in from his vacation yesterday speaking about what he calls a fluid situation and reiterating calls for gadhafi to step down. >> i want to emphasize that this is not over yet. as the regime collapses, there's still fierce fighting in some

areas and we have reports of regime elements threatening to continue fighting. although it's clear that gadhafi's rule is over. he has the opportunity to reduce blood shed by relinquishing power to the people of libya and calling for them to lay down their arms for the sake of libya. >> yesterday, we saw pictures of the jubilation in the streets of tripoli as the rebel ps swept in. today it looks like a hint of uncertainty, can these rebels come together? are they organized enough not only to take out gadhafi but to .fulfill the promise of a government and a coalition to run the country afterward? >> it's been tempting throughout the whole process that this is moving so dramatically that it has to be speedy, we're also going to have some fast resolution. we're going to have peace and democracy flaring. in the case of libya for 42 years that gadhafi has been there. what we're seeing today is a

little bit of that reality check. we need to bear in mind over the next few months as well. this is not going to be an easy process. there are no civil institutions to speak of in libya that the rebels can inherit and the rebels are not a single group. they coalesced around a single idea. there are anti gadhafi forces and pro gadhafi. there are different tribal elements, different areas of the country represented. it's hard to imagine how they go forward maintaining that sense of unity. how the rebels, the national transitional council handles the next few weeks and months is critical in telling the west what libya in the future is going to look like and dictating to the west what they can do in response. >> governor, those pictures of gadhafi's son reveal a larger story, which is we don't quite know what the rebels are up to. they said they had captured him. this is a great victory. they brought in a couple of their sons and here he is giving

interviews to reporters. >> sure. the rebels are disorganized and it seems like it's a wild scene over there. you can tell the tide of movement. there's no going back. gadhafi can't rule that country. i think it's just a matter of time. interesting thing is look at egypt. how long since they've overthrown mubarak? >> he went in february. >> there doesn't seem to be progress there. throwing out someone is a lot easier than governing itself. here's where the international community has to help. my unit was called military government and then it shifted to civil affairs. our task was to go into countries after there had been a regime change and help assist the civilian government. we did that in haiti. we did that in iraq, my unit, not me. >> this was after world war i,

ed? why do i come up here? i'm getting paid. >> always a good reason. >> at least you're honest about it, governor. >> michael, gadhafi is going to go. >> yes. >> it's a matter of time. >> stick a fork in him. >> the united states is working behind the scenes with nato and others. it's tough going. who do you pick as the leadership? >> it is tough going. exactly. you look at anyone who has 17 different spellings of his name, he can't last long. the population is largely confused about who is ruling. everyone knows, this guy has been a thorn in the side of this region if not the world for a long, long time. there has been a concerted international effort to make regime change. that appears to be successful, but the one thing that always kicks me in terms of what the u.s. does when it engages in this stuff, no one seems to

think about turning the page and saying, okay, once we go in and do all of this, what is the strategy to make sure that we minimize the confusion and we minimize the ability of others on the ground, rebels, that are as disparate as we see here. all of these elements together to go after one objective. what happens after the objective is obtained? i want to rule this region. i want to have control over that. those things should be part of the thinking process, i think. that's not clear at this point. >> don't you think they are, michael? don't you think the french and the british have captured that and -- >> they may have. >> i think what happens in the future will be dictated what we see the american response to be so far. the idea of leading from behind. i think the administration is going to be keen to say that we are not going to tell the libyans what we think they need. we're going to wait for this ntc

to take power, stabilize a little bit and then they will ask us what we can give in terms -- >> that mixes up with the brotherhood and other elements out there that people can't define if they're friendly or nonfriendly. if we don't know who the players are and what their interest is, this is my only point, then the thinking through process of this whole thing becomes a little bit more of a muddle for you afterwards. you do get into these quagmires of the wrong people ascending to power and control instead of those who you believe are looking to create the democracy or stability in the nation you need. >> is anyone here struck by the fact that given this fairly significant development, the collapse of the gadhafi regime, there is almost zero interest in it on the streets of the united states of america. zero. >> jobs.

>> exactly right. no one is talking about it. there's no one isn't that great? there is nothing out there. >> there is none of that iraq, even egypt movement. even with mubarak going, they are more excited. yet american forces were in the gulf. >> mubarak was never our enemy. so many americans consider gadhafi our enemy, you think there would be a modicum of interest. >> i want to ask you, katty, i have watched you in the last few months peel back on some of these issues. isn't it true, to your point, governor, that while gadhafi was our enemy, in the last few years, people will come as a kumbaya with gadhafi. all of a sudden he was enemy number one. where did that come from? weren't we just having crumpets and tea with this guy? >> it was the moment he handed over his nuclear program five

years ago. suddenly he was a guy we could do business with. >> what made him a bad guy all of a sudden? >> it goes back to lockerbie, it goes back to his terrorism in the ira. >> was it what happened in egypt or was there something else that all of a sudden made the international community who was doing business with this guy for the last five years all of a sudden in february or march begin to look at him and go, you know what, we don't want to do that anymore? >> i think it was a realization he was a bad guy. when you took back the lockerbie bomber and -- >> that was the trigger. >> took him back to tripoli and he was living in relative comfort and maybe the cancer was not going to run, i think that made people switch. he had lost all of his friends. the reason you had international cooperation when it came to taking action against libya is gadhafi had no friends. the reason he's still holed up

in his compound is there aren't many countries around the world that would take him. he lost that international support. when you lose the support of russia and china, you're sunk. >> he lost whatever shred of support he had when he moved to benghazi, when it looked like he was slaughtering people. >> he sounded like the old gadhafi. >> it's the visual of gadhafi hugging him when he got off the plane. let's turn to another topic that mike barnicle says no one cares about. >> in the 2012 election, mitt romney says he will unveil a jobs plan. his plan coincides with a speech from president obama that will take place after labor. one in which the president will lay out his plan to create jobs and jump start the economy. this comes after romney rival and former utah governor jon

huntsman renewed his tough talk yesterday, a day after saying the gop has "zero substance and discuss the ability to join his competitors. >> could you ever imagine running as a running mate to someone like mitt romney? >> there would be too many jokes about that. no, i can't imagine that at all. >> what about to a tea party candidate? michele bachmann continues to get real attraction. if she came to you and said you're the other part of the party, together we can create sweet music? >> you know, if you love this country, you serve this country. if you're in a position to better the country, to bring whatever background you have to bear, whatever experiences to use in finetuning our future, i'll be the first person to sign up, absolutely. >> let's look at the new polls.

the gallup poll coming up with head to head matchups. let's look at them. among registered voters, president obama comes out on top by four points. that's a tight right. how about with ron paul, texas congressman in a statistical tie with the president. rick perry in a dead heat, 47 all with president obama, and according to gallup, stop laughing, mitt romney is the only candidate leading president obama in a potential 2012 match. 48-46, within the margin of error. >> i think governor romney's effort to roll out a jobs plan, an economic plan is very, very important. governor romney's case to be made to the american people is one, he's a reasonable person. he is out there -- he isn't out there scaring the daylights of people. he is successful both in business and government, and three, he knows what to do with

the competeneconomy. i remember i was imprissed with a speech he made at the detroit civic club on the economy. if he rolls out a plan that has everything in it, not just the usual conservative b.s., we're going to cut taxes and everything is going to be all right. >> is that what it is? >> it's something that hasn't worked time and time again. >> it has worked? >> it hasn't worked. in the 15 years, we had the lowest tax rate in the last 65. only one of them was in the top 20 growth years. in that 65 year period. it hasn't worked. if he can roll out something that has a number of different things in it, i think he has a chance to really impress and really take off. it's a gamble because if it's the same old pap -- >> i appreciate that very much, but you are so flat wrong, it's not even funny. >> those are the facts, michael. >> i know. >> you can look them up. >> look them up.

just like the numbers we just so on the screen showing the president. >> what did they mean? >> very little because it is 14 months out. a lot of my friends on the left are going to be sitting there dismissing them, except if the numbers showed a wide margin for obama, they would be going this tells you how right we are. get a grip. the reality of it is we have a long stretch ahead of us in this race. i think you're beginning to see, i said this a few weeks ago, these candidates have to begin to distinguish themselves not just with the electorate, within the primary but more broadly. you've begun to see that with huntsman. romney is coming out with a plan. there's talk of petaki making an announcement. be that as it may, you're going to see a tightening over the next three months. it has to happen because the base has to begin to lock down on who are we going to go to the

caucus for in february, who are we going to go to the primary for in new hampshire. you're seeing the distinguishing marks right now. we'll see how they respond. this is fresh stuff. we don't know how the voters feel. as the gadhafi regime crumbles, our next guest talks about his assets falling into the wrong hands. we'll talk to mike rogers. a new twist on trade. china is turning to business in america's deep south for of all things, chopsticks. that story and "business before the bell" coming up. here is todd santos with the latest on hurricane irene. >> thanks so much. i want to get into the latest on irene. i want to show you a picture we got from the international space picture of irene fromspace, a top down view. as we get into today, we'll get more vitible images of the scope of this system. there's a look at the infrared

imagery. thunderstorms north of puerto rico and the dominican republic. moving to the west-northwest. the only change has been that it's slowed down in forward speed from 12 miles per hour to 10 miles per hour. a category 2 storm, max sustained winds 100 miles per hour. we get into thursday, early morning, you're talking about a category 3 storm making its way through the northern bahamas, it goes through florida, carolinas friday, saturday and sunday as a major hurricane, category 3 plus. it is time to prepare now across eastern florida, eastern georgia and the carolinas. as we get beyond this time frame, we could see impacts in the mid atlantic and the northeast. we'll keep you up to date. for now, you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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♪ >> i'm not sure if they're going to be able to take gadhafi's compound. the compound is like a military base. it has high walls. it clearly has a lot of artillery and other weapons inside of it. tanks, according to witnesses. they might not be able to go inside without more nato help. we've heard from witnesses that there were nato air strikes and perhaps part of the wall of the compound has been destroyed, which would allow people potentially to get in and engage in some direct combat. if that happens, that will give the rebels something of an advantage. they have the numbers. they don't have the weapons. i think over time, yes, they will overwhelm this compound but they might lose the battle and

still win the war. >> richard engel reporting in our last hour on "morning joe" about a mile and a half outside the gadhafi compound there in tripoli. we can update nato has confirmed it does have aircraft over tripoli today. a spokesman says we have not heard from the aircraft whether they found it necessary to take action. we don't have any indication right now. so the aircraft for nato are over tripoli. welcome back to "morning joe." governors howard dean and ed rendell, katty kay with us. joining us from washington, republican congressman of michigan, mike rogers. thanks for being with us this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> you've raised a question that hasn't been talked enough about the last couple of days, what happens to gadhafi's stockpile of weapons when he finally goes? what concerns you most there? >> we know he has thousands and thousands of pounds of chemical

stockpile. we know that, we've seen it, we've talked about it. we have done inventory work prior to the lead-up to all of this. we think he has some gas capability, we don't know how far that goes and he has shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles that are concerning to us because they're so easy to get legs and walk away. all of that has a national security interest in the united states. we ought to be concerned and aggressive of making sure those are protected or taken care of. >> which people or groups are you most concerned about getting their hands on it? members of the rebel faction, outside countries? >> yes. it's all of those things. al qaeda has expressed an interest. they're trying to take advantage of the chaos. we know that for a fact. we know some of those weapons systems have been attempted to be moved. remember, the rebels are not a

homogenous group. there are different ethnic groups, tribal groups. they have different stripes. the only thing that keeps them together now is they don't like moammar gadhafi at large. once that happens and once that goes away, it will. just a matter of time. it gets more fuzzy and gray. i'm very concerned about some of that -- those weapon systems being sold on the black-market, being taken for advantage from one group over another group. all of that is concerning, or, you know gadhafi is still in charge of elements of the regime. does he make that decision to do something pretty horrific here in the last few days? we don't know the answer to that. i don't think so but it's something we should worry about. all of that together says we better have, in the next 48 to two weeks, we better be very aggressive about the best interest in securing those weapons systems as best as we can. >> governor rendell. >> congressman, it's ed rendell.

you raise a legitimate concern. what do you suggest? what does that mean? >> there's lots of things to do. it doesn't include big boots on the grounds. our intelligence services working with the tnc can do to be in certain places to make sure those weapons systems are accounted for. >> accounted for i understand. what happens to them? let's assume we got that array of weapons. do we take them? does nato take them? how do we get that done? >> i would argue nato ought to be a part of this and ought to take custody of those weapons systems. there was a plan to incinerate the chemical stockpiles that stalled out a few years ago. we ought to just ensure that happens. they ought to be there as soon as humanly possible to continue that process and not allow that -- those particular facilities to fall into the hands of people who may want to sell it or use it. same with the other weapons systems which is a little more nebulous, because there are so many of them.

remember, he proliferated on these weapons systems because of his experience being bombed in the 80s. he bought all of these anti-aircraft systems and there are lots of them. our concern is they start moving. that has to be a joint effort between the tnc, nato and us. we shouldn't be bashful about saying we may have to put some of our american people through diplomatic means and other to make sure those weapons systems don't start walking away. that's a combination of everybody. >> katty kay? >> we also happened in iraq after the fall of sadam hussein, what's going to happen in this transition process, thinking about how the rebels might incorporate gadhafi supporters and the military and that kind of thing? >> i think we've learned a valuable lesson in iraq about wholesale dismissal. a lot of hard feelings as you might understand, but wholesale dismissal on a place that doesn't have a professional civil service can be very

dangerous. just because they're with the regime doesn't automatically mean there are gadhafi loyalists. thousands of them are walking away and have walked away saying i'm not engaged in the fight. i'm serving my country as it was. there's a difference between that individual and somebody passionately pro gadhafi handling to continue the fight after the fall of the gadhafi regime. we learned you can separate those two groups, not always easy but it can be done. i think that's where the united states can play an important role on providing that advice and counsel about how to get through what is the most difficult period, just in the weeks and months right after the fall. so this really needs to start now. all of this planning has to happen now to be prepared so that -- we're going to have some fits and starts. it's not going to be easy. we can get through that in a better way if we bring the expertise. don't eliminate your whole military and intelligence

services, don't dismantle your civil service. we need some of that expertise to rebuild and put folks in who are pro democracy in libya. >> governor howard dean? >> i have a quick question for you, same one i asked keith ellison. this is going to take money. we don't have much. a lot of fights about spending. where do we get the money to do what i think we ought to do? >> howard and dean and i just agreed. >> you're in big trouble now. >> i think so. >> only your home district. >> your primary opponent is getting ready right now. >> thanks a lot, howard. kidding obviously. there's several ways i think we can do this. this is another place where u.s. expertise can be helpful on the ground in a commercial sense. you bring in a commercial interest who can reengage the oil production which they're going to need those resources. it's libyan resources. it's a libyan economic -- it's an oil economy.

they need to get their oil economy back on its feet. it must be a priority on the commercial front as well as the assets that we have seized and other european nations have seized. we can feed that money back in. we don't need to write a large u.s. check if any check at all. i would argue for the latter because they have the ability to reconnect these resources pretty quickly. we have to help them do that. that's going to take that short time in the interim, but that's where the seized money can come in to get them through that period. we think there's plenty of money to do that. we need to make sure we know who we're giving it to and it's going to the right purposes. >> let's stick with the issue of money and the economy. in this country, part of your district includes a portion of detroit, a city devastated over the years where the only good news is justin verlander and the tigers maybe. a state with the unemployment rate hovers around 10 or 11%. the president of the united

states is coming to detroit after labor day to lay out a jobs program. what do you want to hear from the president? >> listen, it's been an unbelievable surge of regulation on business. when you talk to manufacturers, they are pulling their hair out at all the new regulations that face them. one of the reasons you see so much capital, u.s. capital, private capital sitting on the sidelines, $2 trillion, if they hire mike rogers tomorrow, they have no idea how much money mike rogers is going to cost them next year because of all this new regulation, the health care bill puts so much uncertainty in their ability to hire. i would love the president to say, listen, we're not going to raise taxes on business. we're going to stop demonizing business. after all, it's business that hires people. we're going to have a freeze on regulation. we're going to give you a breather and you can start investing in yourselves. it's a simple plan, but i think

this economy is ready for if the government gets out of the way. the president has been beating up on businesses bad. they're terrible, they have a corporate jet. it's really a small and petty way to try to deal with what is a major concern. that's the lack of jobs. government doesn't create a job. private sector does. let them do it. >> you know what else you're going to have to deal with, you're going to have to deal with governor rendell shaking his head. >> is he beginning -- >> i know you talk about businesses and taxes. look at the american people and say do you think it's okay that 38% of people don't pay business tax at all? >> i'm all for tax reform. >> let's do it now. let's do it before christmas. >> ed, you and i will agree on tax reform. the problem is, you can't keep continuing taking money out. the way the president proposed raising taxes, 53% of the people

paying it were small business owners. if we want to get out of this mess, we have to have small businesses believing they can take the chancement that's called american enterprises, take the risk to had hire somebody and grow their business. they look at all this uncertainty and think there is no way i can take this risk and i'm barely making it. >> i understand that. >> i would be for tax reform but it can't be on the backs of people who are paying a lot of taxes already. it doesn't make any sense to take money out of local communities. >> you're clearly a leader in the republican caucus. somebody has got to talk sense. we've got to do something big, more than 1.5 trillion. let's do tax reform and let that revenue go into dealing with the problems that we face with our debt and deficit. it's the right thing to do. help us. >> ed, only place i'm going to disagree with you on this is the only side i hear from across the aisle is revenue means tax

increases. you have to tax people more to get more revenue. >> i'm for tax reform as long as it's focused on getting people back to work. the best revenue is if somebody is unemployed who is working and pays taxes tomorrow because they have a job. that's not part of the calculation. >> there's a lot of people out of work. >> i missed that work. >> you can't get there by cutting the heck out of the money you're sending to the state and putting a million state employees out of work which is what you did in the debt deal. you have to make up for it -- you want to balance the budget, but we need more jobs. you're not going to get there by giving business breaks to people who already have them. >> you get caught in the horrible trap, those horrible businesses. >> we might have some more jobs. >> if you start hiring people at the state and local government levels, we did if he federal government, the president tried it, he had two years, he hired

250,000 new people. it takes away from the local economy. the government can't be responsible for jobs in the united states. if the only way is to work for the government, we are in serious trouble. you need to get manufacturing back. you don't do that by punishing businesses. >> tax reform. let's do it. >> i'm for it as long as it's growth related, ed, we're going to get along fine. >> look at that. everybody is going to get along fine. >> let's sing kumbaya. >> let's have a group hug here. >> mike should be on set with us. >> thanks so much. we appreciate it, chairman. weeks after the s&p downgrade of the united states debt, the president of standard & poor's is stepping down. "business before the bell" is next. [ dr. ling ] i need to get the results from the m.r.i. see if the blood work is ready. review ms. cooper's history.

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>> the treasury department says the national debt has increased by $4 trillion since barack obama became president. knock it off. >> the fastest increase of the debt under any u.s. president. the latest calculation shows the debt was more than $10.5 trillion on the day president obama took office. now the number stands at more than 14.5 trillion. u.s. stocks managing to eek out gains yesterday by the closing

bell. the dow jones industrial average averaged 37 points up a third of a percent. the s&p and nasdaq fractionally higher. a big shakeup coming at standard & poor's which is announcing a change in leadership. deven shama will step down. he has become the public face in the days following the historic downgrade of the united states credit rating. let's get a check on "business before the bell" with simon hobbs. he's live for us at the new york stock exchange. >> good morning. deven shama's departure is interesting. they say it's got nothing to do with the downgrade. the longer term problem that s&p has, bear in mind, is potentially that the justice department is investigating the mortgage backed securities which we mentioned last week. at the same time you have a group of activists and shareholders on the parent company, mcgraw hill who is

suggesting it's time to spin off s&p to a point where it's an independent oversight figure to help s&p navigate potential new regulation and the new public attention it has. it may well be the broader picture here is that some of the alleged wrongdoing in the run up to the financial crisis may now be beginning to bite here on wall street, because it's not just s&p. it's that justice department investigation continues. we have news that lloyd blankfein hired a defense lawyer, also went to the justice department, last night, in a separate development, you have the justice department suing deutsch bank for $1 million because it believed that bank knew from a mortgage company was lying to the federal government about its ability to the right to insure those mortgages when one in three of those mortgages failed. we may have a series of moments of truths on the reality of what

happened back in 2006 to 2008, guys, as we move into the fall. it's going to be very interesting. >> what does lloyd blankfein's hiring of that attorney tell you? >> goldman sachs would say, if you're going to get this sort of heat from the justice department, this sort of investigation at this level, it's inevitable that blankfein and the other senior members would hire criminal attorneys. that's exactly what they're doing. still, inevitably, it raises eyebrows and people are interested in that just as a fact. can i tell you meanwhile on the we have stabilized. up 110 at the opening today, part of the expectation of be bernanke will do on friday. gold hit a record. gold has risen 20% in one month. in one year, gold is now up 32%. that is a total indicator of

fear in the market. >> up 20% in one month. $1900. it goes up every day. simon hobbs in the new york stock exchange. how an american company is thriving during a chopstick shortage in china. we'll be right back. what's up, smart?

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♪ >> odds are many of the products you buy from the shirt on your back to the toys your kids play with are made in china. in the south, we found a unique twist to the u.s. often lopsided trade relationship with china. >> reporter: you'll find

southern staples like onions, and now southern made chopsticks. welcome to georgia chopsticks, a private american company cranking out a quintessential asian utensil. >> i never thought i would make chopsticks. >> this is strange. everybody asks chopsticks? >> this is job, making chopsticks in the united states. >> no jokes here. the workers produce 2 million chopsticks a day. operations are 24 hours six days a week. company president, jay lee says he expects they'll be making 10 million chopsticks by the end of the year. >> i wish there were 36 hours a day. >> reporter: the biggest buyer is china, which consumes more than 50 billion chopsticks a year. because of its ban on logging, china is running low on wood and importing more of it. apparently the region of georgia

is perfect for making chopsticks. they provide pliable wood that is resistant to splintering. there's a lot of pride to exporting to asia. everything is made everywhere else. >> i told them make the biggest you can made in the usa. >> reporter: they make the chopsticks, but can they use them? >> i can definitely use them, i guess. >> reporter: can you use chopsticks? >> no. >> i'm getting the feeling that you prefer a fork more than chopsticks. >> a fork or spoon. my hands get crimped. >> they may not be happy with the technique, but the workers are grateful to have jobs in a weak economy. chopsticks made in georgia. it's american industrialism, southern style.

>> we're making chopsticks. coming up david letterman returns to his show for the first time since receiving a public death threat on a jihadist website. we'll see how he responded when we come back. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? millions? tens of millions? hundreds of millions? not a single cent. the united states postal service doesn't run on your tax dollars. it's funded solely by stamps and postage. brought to you by the men and women of the american postal workers union. ♪

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>> let's enjoy this for a moment.

keith on vocals. >> keith is always happy. >> you know who else was pretty happy, all things considered last night is david letterman. a couple weeks ago he got a death threat on the jihadist website. some of the jokes, the guy who runs the website said to his followers, we should cut out the tongue of david letterman. letterman was back on the air for the first time since this story came out. here's how he responded. >> we have great audiences night in and night out. tonight especially, it means a lot to me. tonight, you people are more than an audience. you're more like a human shield. i was talking to the guy from cbs. we were going through the cbs life insurance policy to see if i was covered for jihad. i'm an adult, i'm a big boy. it's the major leagues. i told a joke.

you know the guy who wrote it. that really. is he up there? there he is right there. that's the guy. i think you'll find this useful. it's a list of people who hate me. here. take a look. >> al qaeda, sarah palin, donald trump, jay leno, the late show, the national academy of arts and sciences. dave's mailman, the women, dogs, cats, wall russs, turtles, cats. >> dave went on, read the top ten things that went through his mind after he heard about the threat. number six. >> should i wear my cavalier hair piece. >> i thought nobody watched the show. >> how can somebody be so angry at a time when kim kardashian is

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>> all right. it's time to tell you what we

learned today. let's start with mike barnicle. >> i learned while not exactly in china, governor rendell and mike rogers started a new bond here today. >> you two are adorable. what did you learn? >> i learned sadly from jon huntsman that there will not be an all mormon ticket. >> no, he was not happy with that. >> katty kay, what did you learn? >> don't get down on america's future when there are companies in georgia exporting chopsticks to china. great story. >> we're back. >> you are back. >> it's a start. >> the chinese are shaking in their boots. >> michael, how about you? >> it's always good to hang out with a fellow chairman. >> we got all the chairmen on the stage here today. >> the chair is here. >> chairman dean? >> i learned jon huntsman is a great candidate but he's inhe