self-interest and realize if we are going to continue to be the greatest nature on earth it is our people we have to put our resources into. we cannot complete globally unless we put education at the top of every single thing that we do in this country and that means equal opportunity for all children. >> we're going to have to leave it there for today. michelle, thanks for that inspiring call to keep on keeping on. that does it for us today. i'm matt miller in for dylan ratigan. "hardball" is up right now. why republicans might really fear hurricane irene. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm ron reagan in tonight for chris matthews. leading off tonight, the eye of the storm. hurricane irene is heading up the east coast and is likely to be non-partisan. hitting democratic and

republican districts alike. my question tonight -- after the damage is done, are republicans going to reject federal aid because the u.s. has a spending problem? or are they going say no to fema, because government is the problem, not the solution? what happens when ideologist collides with reality ji plus, look who's talking. former v.p. dick cheney has a new book out, as he puts it, there are going to be heads exploding all over washington. oh, dick. among other things, cheney goes after colin powell again, after condoleezza rice, again, and rights he thought it would be a good idea to bomb a nuclear plant in syria. regrets? he seems to have nun in respect may be controversy over how good rick perry's economic record is. we can agree he's number one in one area. executions. 234 in 11 years. that's more than the next two states combined, since 1976. true, texas is big, bupt as perry wrote in his book, if you don't support the death penalty

and citizens packing a pistol, don't come to texas. and the sarah palin-karl rove smackdown goes another round. rove says palin has an enormous thick skin. gets upset if you speculate about her and if you don't. finally, both sides now. mitt romney weighs in on both sides of two more issue, that's in the "sideshow." we start with the latest on hurricane irene. for that we go to the weather channel. >> and good afternoon, ron. it is very difficult day here. watching hurricane as long time, and this is a very bad one. a slight glimmer of barely a little bit of good news this afternoon is now the hurricane center is thinking that this storm may not intensify quite at strong as they were thinking, but the forecast of that is difficult. in any case it looks like a direct hit on the east coast of the u.s. from north carolina all the way up into new england. look at the satellite picture. i'll locate it for you. there you see it.

just now about to clear great abaco in the northern bahamas pap very large hurricane and forecasting at even larger, a move to the north. what we're looking at here, the various computer models. simulations of the atmosphere, and you can see that all of them indicate either directly over north carolina, worst case hit there on eastern, north carolina, or just offshore. it makes no difference. and as a major category 3-type hurricane. we're very fearful. this happening on saturday. for a very bad hit on north carolina. then points north, and all of the metropolitan areas in the northeast are included. including the new york city metropolitan area. exactly how close to the coast it goes has everything to do with how bad the hit is. the forecasts are very unified in a significant hit on the population centers all the way from norfolk on through washington, baltimore,

philadelphia, new york, and on to boston. so we are thinking here that this may be the hurricane of a lifetime for many people in the northeast. certainly a textbook kind of storm we've looked at forever. we'll watch it continuously. the weather channel. ron? >> things are going to get windy. for more on the gop and whether they played politics with the storm, bring in the governor of maryland and chairman of the democratic governors' association and ed rendell, former governor of pennsylvania and now an msnbc political analyst. we reached out to over a dozen coastal republicans today, by the way, governor, senators, congressmen. governor chris christie's office told us they've asked for federal funds in the past and will do so again. the others either haven't gotten back to us or said its too early to say. welcome, governors. governor o'malley, if the worst should happen in maryland, and things get pretty bad there, and

there's a disaster that strikes, would you be willing to take federal disaster relief? >> absolutely. there are only some things we can do effectively when we did them together. one of those is protecting lives and property from monster hurricanes like this one. hurricane irene that's bearing down on us, and you know, ron, in closed doors, all governors, regardless of party, will all tell you that fema's operations have been greatly improved in recent years, and it's something that all americans, i think, should take pride in. that there are professional people now in charge at fema who are on top of these things and doing their very best, even with the extreme weather conditions that we're facing as a nation. >> is the fact that most states are simply incapable of handling a major natural disaster like this, is that the reality? >> well, you know, you say

incapable. i mean, all of us -- all of us gear up to -- to handle things in the normal course of business, but had things become outside of that norm, when you have monster hurricanes or earthquakes or monster tornadoes, well, that's when we do expect that our federal strength will come forward. you know, we're stronger together as a nation. we're stronger together as a country. and that's why we do call upon our federal government for support to protect americans with our borders when the situations or these sorts of natural disasters overwhelm the normal level of funding that all of us support in state and local governments. >> governor rendell, or i can call you ed, because you're no longer a governor. >> abosolutely. >> many republicans governors have jumped on the gop bandwagon about federal spending is a problem. i don't want any federal money coming here. does all that go out the window when the roof starts blowing off

the house? >> well, it should. first and foremost, the governor's responsibility is to the people of the state, and as governors we can do preparedness, we can do response, we can use the national guard, use the state police. in pennsylvania when i was governor, we were very effective in dealing with natural disasters, but when it comes to helping people get back on their feet, businesses, home, homeowners obliterated by natural disaster. state and local funding is available that happen to match the federal fund but no feasible way to do it without federal funding. these governors ought to be accepting funding and put ideology aside. i'd like to, ron, focus on a comment governor perry said in his announcement speech when he was announcing his candidacy. he said, i promise you, i will do everything in my power, every day, to make the federal government as inconsequential in

your lives as possible. >> yeah. go ahead -- that sounds nice on a sunny day. >> absolutely. >> but -- >> i have a question for governor perry. if he were the governor of virginia and a small business owner saw his factory ripped asunder and the only way we could come close giving him the money to build it back up would be federal funds, do you they small business owner wants the federal government to be as inconsequential in his life as possible? no way. >> you've got to wonder. >> no way. >> yeah. governor o'malley, i'll call you governor o'malley because you're still governor. eric cantor, republican, majority leader, his office released a statement saying the majority leader consistently says additional funds for federal disaster relief ought to be offset with spending cuts. so, in other words, i guess if your house is blown away you've got to give up more yesterday

c.a.r.e., up your medicare. does that make any sense to you? >> it doesn't make any sense. this is no time for ideology. we have a killer hurricane bearing down on the popular areas of the east coast. the effective governance really matters most when people's lives are in jeopardy. and that's what's happening right now. this is not a time for ideology. we need to all come together, weather this hurricane and rebuild after it, and we need to protect people's lives. and this sort of ideological obsession i really think has no place right now. we need to be focused on getting people out of the path of this hurricane and weathering this thing as safely as we can. >> uh-huh. i don't know the answer to this question, and it just occurred to me. we were talking about governor perry earlier. they've had quite a drought down there in texas for some time now, which i guess probably does amount to a natural disaster. has governor perry taken any federal money to hand that?

does anybody know? >> well, they all do. they all do and then beat their chests and say this was horrible. this was awful, and big spending in washington and -- the truth ever the matter is, ron, there's not a state capitol governed by either a democratic or republican governor that would be standing right now were it not for president obama's courage in passing the recovery and reinvestment act. that is what has allowed us to provide essential services and public health and public safety and public education, and you know, that's why i believe we should have a federal government. we're stronger together. and we need to act together and act like a nation especially when we're under threat or digging out of a deep recession. >> and, ed, federal disaster relief is not some newfangled idea that president obama has come up with. is it? >> no. >> it's been around a while. >> and useed by republican presidents and democrat presidents alike.

you know, the hypocrisy on this stuff and what martin pointed out about letting ideology infect is is usual lly not doney governors. but best shown on stimulus. not one house member, republican house member voted for the president's stimulus bill. only three republican senators did. did that stop republican senators and republican house members from showing up at groundbreakings for bridge repair or a road repair or a new construction? that was paid for by stimulus? not on your life. they were there smiling from ear to ear. so it's hypocrisy run wild. >> do you suppose, if the republican candidates that i'm aware of, of course, talking about no federal spending, cut spending and all that. if we did have a republican president next term and some disaster struck somewhere in the united states as it almost surely would, do you think that that republican president would deny federal funds to that

state? >> of course not. as president, again, you have to govern. it's a little different than like representative cantor's office did. by the way, everyone tells me he's such a bright guy. that was a dumb statement. good lord. >> yeah. pretty much defines tone deaf. doesn't it? >> can you imagine saying, okay, virginia i can't give you disaster relief until congress cuts equal a funding from the federal budget. that will work. >> joplin, missouri i guess he's sticking to his guns. we'll have to leave it there. hope you guys stay dry and stay safe there on the east coast. >> let's pray that that hurricane veers out to sea. >> absolutely. >> thank you. >> thank you. governor ed o'malley and former governor ed rendell. settles scores, dick cheney, a new book that will make a lot of peoplening gri. sdp he express regret? what do you think? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] this is the network. a network of possibilities.

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this book is going to make a lot of people angry. >> there will be heads exploding all the way in washington. >> you knee? >> yes. >> welcome back to "hardball." vice president cheney certainly knows how to hype a book. his autobiography "in my time: a

personal and political memoir" is due out next week and based on early reports, it looks like the former vice president is unrepenta unrepentant. joining me, he's seen the book and reported on it in today's paper. hi, charlie. >> thanks for having me on. >> somehow my advanced copy never arrived. so i don't know what that was all about, but i haven't read the book, but you have. what sort of portrait does dick cheney paint of himself in this book? >> having speed read the book in the last 24 hours, at one level, a pretty scared washington memoir, a liberal, a certain familiaritiy. the author right about everything. brilliant. had they disagreed, fools. that's certainly true of this book, but dick cheney is no ordinary washington politician. sme is a genuine world historical figure who's had weren't of the most remarkable

careers ever in washington starting with the chief of staff to gerald ford. a major republican congressman in the '80s. secretary of defense during the first gulf war and the most influential vice president in history. and so he was an i witness to really an extraordinary panorama of american history and his book is far more interesting than most washington memoirs for that reason. >> i gather he portrays himself more or less as the guy in charge on 9/11? >> well, he was the guy in charge on 9/11. there's just no doubt about that. president bush was away from washington. there were communication problems, even keeping in touch with what was happening. dick cheney was in the command bunker under the white house and he was the one telling the government what to do. managing that crisis that day. and from the days that followed, drawing on his deep experience in national security matters, he was the chief architect of the

bush administrational response to 9/11, whether that was open warfare or the intelligence system, whether that was asking the questions and pushing for what led to the surveillance program, which he takes credit for here or what he calls the enhanced interrogation program which led to the huge dispute over torture when they came to light. >> i'm quoting, in discussing the must disputed 16 words about iraq's supposed hunt for uranium in niger, mr. cheney said unlike other aides he sat knoll. ms. rice eventually came around to his view, she came into my office and tearfully add mighted i had been right. condoleezza rice isn't going to be happy reading that. is she? >> i think she has her own memoir scheduled for the pipeline. we'll see whether --

>> she can have her memory. >> whether she cried that he was right about everything. we will to cram a lot of nuggets into that brief space. what cheney was talking about in, the british really did think saddam was pursuing uranium in africa. so the sentence was technically correct and by apologizing for it, em flaming the controversy which he said did happen once the white house admitted it had been wrong to include those words in the speech. he was pamaking a tactical viewpoint, not to publicly apologize compared to what surrounded it. >> i'm sure my copy will be landing on my doorstep right from the vice president's office. thank you, in the meantime with me, "chicago tribune" columnist. welcome. >> i'm waiting for my copy to

arrive, too. >> somehow we're off the list. i don't know what's happening here, clarence. >> slowed up the postman. ? know. >> that must be it. is this sort of vintage dick cheney? the dick cheney we know and love, do you suppose? >> so familiar. wasn't it? keeping track of what the highly placed leakers were saying all along in the bush administration. this will not strike anybody as blockbuster news. it tends to be confirmation on dick cheney's own mouth or a keyboard or whatever of what had been reported in various ways. there are familiar foes, rivals here. george tenet, colin powell, condoleezza rice. we knew he'd gotten into disputes with them in the past and kind of gives his side of it here. and democrats i think, are going to be somewhat delighted that he's bringing up these old issues like waterboarding and standing by them. his own admission, he feels,

polish his image and avoid indictment, i guess, but being firm, he's been firm all along on this, and i think going into the presidential campaign, the obama administration can help him. >> happy that he's reviving the aspects of the bush years most folks would like to put behind them. >> speaking of that, nbc news jamie gangel had an exclusive interview with vice president cheney. here she asks him about torture. let's have a listen. >> in your view, westill be zyuzin enhanced interrogation? >> no regrets? >> no regrets. >> should we still be waterboarding terror suspects? >> i would strongly support using it again is if circumstances arose where we had a high-value detainee and that was the only way we could get him to talk. >> even though so many people d condemned it, people call it torture, you think it should

still be a tool? >> yes. >> he never backs off that. we don't expect him to. people know my feelings about this pretty surely, he's a war criminal. torture is a crime, and this is a guy who can't travel to europe anymore for fear of ending up in the hague. does he deal with that, do you suppose, in the book? >> well, i can't say how he deals with it in the book in detail. just from reports that have come out. i think in real life he probably is avoiding trips to europe, i imagine, like henry kissinger and others on the lam from that branch of international justice, if you will. as far as back here in the states, he probably hasn't got much to fear. the obama administration made it clear they want to move on. they don't want to go back to the justice department and ge after the bush administration on legal areas like this. but with a campaign coming along, again, you've got to polarize the electorate. nothing he set apparently would

offend republicans. it will offend a lot of democrats. wilfire them up to wanted to come out and support obama more? that's the kind of question we're asking now. >> yeah. not that hammer the point at all, any neutral reading of say, the u.n. convention against torture makes it pretty clear that if you support waterboarding and you enact that sort of a policy, you're guilty of a war crime. so that's -- >> have you got people like john mccain and various other folks who are hardly what you would cause wooses or the war issue. john mccain, a former p.o.w. who himself was tortured, and there are just so many arguments against it, and so few actually showing that it works if you will. but it has really been useful that the public would rather not have our country associated with it. >> jamie beggangel asking how president bush my react to the book. listen to this. >> do you think president bush

will feel betrayed that you've revealed these private conversations? >> i don't think so. >> you don't think so? >> no. >> do yyou have always said thau believe the president to be able to trust the people around him. by revealing these differences, you don't think your betraying that trust? >> no. >> clarence, there does seem to be some sort of a breach between the bush kpamp and the cheney champ any insight on that? >> not particularly. i think obviously there are philosophical differences, but i don't think -- from what's been reported so far, nanything that would get the bush folks upset. cheney knowsality of secrets hotter than this, which folks would rather not let out. i don't know that this is going to cause that much upset. we'll see. >> clarence, appreciate you

coming by. you can see all of jamie's exclusive interview with former vice president dick cheney on a special edition of "dateline monday" august 29 at 10:00 eastern on your local nbc station. up next, both sides now for mitt romney. once again he's found himself on both sides of a couple of issues. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

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as strange as the finding surely is, warning signs. the two didn't cross path as few times buring rice's stint at secretary of state, and in 2007, gadhafi spoke of her in an interview with al jazeera saying, i admire and am very proud of the way she leans back and gives orders to the arab leaders. leeza, leeza, leeza, i love her very much. that's what we call, "creepy ". moving on. seems both sides, the go-to strategy for mitt romney. people do notice, problem is. contradict yourself and later on come up with some kind of hybrid opinion to play to both sides. let's kick it off with the hot topic of global warming. here's what romney had to say back in june. >> the world's getting warmer, i can't prove that, but i believe based on what i believe, the world is getting warmer and number two -- >> okay. so humans at least play a partial role in global warming,

until yesterday, that is. let's listen. do i this world's getting hotter? yeah. i don't know that, but i think it is. i don't know if it's mostly caused by humans. >> and there goes that one. but we can't leave it at that. how does romney feel about the financial regulations laid out in the dodd-frank bill? here's what the candidate had to say just last month. >> i'll give you more details as the campaign goes on, but this bill was -- was too overreaching and too massive and has contributed to a slowdown. >> well, the details finally came in yesterday as romney spoke with business owners in new hampshire. >> i would like to repeal dodd-frank and -- and -- yes. [ applause ] and recognize some provisions make sense. >> so, should we change around a few things before or after the bill is repealed?

this could only get worse if he tries to elaborate. up next, governor rick perry surpassed george w. bush in the number of executions he's overseen in texas. were there any mistakes along the way? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

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i'm brian sullivan with your cnbc market wrap. investors threw it in reverse after three days of gains. the dow closing at session losthe s&p and nasdaq also down. european fears. remember those? rearing their ugly heads again. stocks began lower after surprise sell-offs in the german stock market, despite the fact that all three rating agencies reaffirmed germany's aaa rating and a stable outlook. bank of america in the spotlight

again this time because warren buffett said he would invest in bank of america. a much needed vote of confidence for the bank. you remember, buffett did the same for goldman sachs at the height of the crisis. and apple down, all word on the retirement of steve jobs, the ceo. and everybody anxiously awaiting fed chairman ben bernanke's big speech in jackson hole, wyoming. not to mention christine's event at the same event where qe 2 was announced last year. that's it for cnbc. first in business worldwide. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." rick perry's emergence as a republican front-runner is casting a spotlight on one of the more controversial aspects of his time as texas governor. his strong advocacy for the

death penalty. it in his 11 years in office he's overseen executions of 234 people. more than any other governor in modern times according to the "washington post." in fairness, the governor served over a decade in the state that leads the nation in executions since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976. critics point out in his entire tenure he has only once recommended a death penalty conviction be changed to life in prison and veto add bill has would have preclulded mentally retarded people from being executed and strongly oppose add supreme court decision in 2005 that spamped people who were juveniles at the time of the crime for being executed. last year in his book "fed up" perry had this to say about critics of the death penalty. if you don't support the death penalty and citizens packing a pistol, don't come to texas. i think the texas tourism board is using that as their slogan now. joining us to debate governor

perry's death penalty record, the director of the criminal justice foundation a victims' rights advocacy group and jordan a professor of the university of texas school of law. welcome to you both. gentlemen. jordan, a lot of the discomfort about governor perry and the death penalty centers around the case of cameron todd willingham, a man expected i guess in 1991, if i remember correctly, of setting his home on fire and thereby killing his two children. why don't you tell me, what was troubling about this case, from your point of view? >> well, there were really three things that were troubling about governor perry's involvement in the case. first, at the time of willingham's execution, pretty clear the governor's office had clear information the arson evidence was junk science used to convict him. an opportunity governor perry had at that time to prevent a

wrongful execution. subsequent to that his office hasn't released any information about what was told to perry prior to that execution. so there is some some concern that maybe governor perry been told, you're about to allow for the execution of an incident man, and went ahead anyway. so there's a transparency problem about what information was known to governor perry at the time of the execution. >> i'm sorry. go ahead. >> i was going to say, the third and probably the most visible issue that's arisen with the wilingham case, the governor's office to stonewall the investigation into that case. there was a forensic science commission looking into the junk science that was used in the willingham conviction, and at the time, at about the time that a report was going to come out that demonstrated the inaccuracies of the science, governor perry quickly switched

the head of that commission and put in a political ally who at that point pretty much delays any information so there would be no public accounting or reckoning for what happened in that case. >> ken, are you, too, troubled by the cameron todd willingham case, or do you see it differently? >> i see it differently. actually, mr. perry's entrance into the race may be a good thing, because it will get more people focused on this case, and i think if you looked at the totality of the case, there's plenty of other evidence besides the forensic evidence demonstratingwillingham was in fact guilty. a forensic negotiation exceeding its jurisdiction and it's appropriate they were reined in to what the texas law permits it to do. i don't think that's really a case of stonewalling. >> governor perry does appear to approve of the execution of mentally retarded criminals.

also juveniles. he thinks the juveniles should be executed as well. does that take him outside of the norm of what most americans think is just? >> no, i don't think so. i mean, the law at the time of these cases was that the minority status of the person as well as any mental deficiencies could be considered by the jury. must be considered by the jury. all the evidence can be presented to the jury and the jury was required to weigh that against the other factors in the case. whether we should have that kind of rule versus a cutoff is an eschew reasonable people can disagree on. i happen to fave the 18-year cutoff myself but don't hold it against mr. berry he takes the other position. it's a reasonable position that if somebody commits a. >> moderator:er when they're 13 years old they should be put to death? >> 13, that is not the law. never was at the time. at issue, we're talking about 17 yrl yrlds-year-olds for the most

part. >> 17 would be okay? a reasonable thing? >> if the person can be put to death after this 18th birthdays, i don't see a problem if he can be put to death the day before for the same crime under the same circumstances. >> okay. jordan, is it possible governor perry actually presided over an execution when he had reason to believe that the man being killed might, in fact, be innocent? >> i think it's certainly possible. i they we really don't know in part because of person who has that information is the governor and his office, and they've chosen not to disclose whatever memos were prepared in advance of the willingham execution and indeed there are other inmates executed in texas where there were some substantial doubts about whether they had the right guy. >> uh-huh. let me ask you, we only have a little time left here. i gather you support the death penalty. how many innocent people should it be permissible to kill in

order to exact vengeance against the guilty? >> well, i wouldn't phrase it that way and that's not the -- >> you know it's inevitable that innocent people will be killed because humans are imperfect and so are there systems. >> how many will be kill fundamental we don't execute people. >> you don't know that. >> oh, we knee has happened in fact. >> you don't know that. no, you don't know that. you're saying -- >> people -- it's actually happened on multiple occasions, where people have committed crimes -- >> all right. you're saying a criminal may, in fact, get out of jail and kill, but i'm talking about the state. the state has somebody in their custody. they have complete control over them. they're going to kill them. they may be innocent. eventually, somebody is going to be innocent and executed. howe how many is okay to kill them just for vengeance on the guilty? >> it's not for only vengeance.

a lot of other reasons including incapacitation. >> how many innocent people is 0 okay to kill? >> i didn't say there was -- >> you're going to kill them as long as you have a death penalty. if you have a death penalty, innocent people will die. >> the other side has been searching for one case and hasn't been able to prove one yell. >> todd willingham is a gi case and there's about 185 cases in the united states. >> they don't -- >> well, i guess you just repealed yourself. thank you. another round in the sarah palin karl rove smackdown. is this a palin strategy to stay in the headlines or can she simply not resist to fight? this is "hardball" only on msnbc. get enough vegetables. so here's five bucks to help you buy v8 juice. five bucks. that's a lot of green. go to v8juice.com for coupons. you can count on us. five bucks. that's a lot of green. i've tried it. but nothing helped me beat my back pain.

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we're back. the he said/she said tussle between karl rove and sarah palin is gaining speed. it began with what seemed like a fairly innocent observation by rove on saturday. >> she has a schedule next week that looks like that of a candidate, not a celebrity. and then this video she released yesterday, you know, she made a

surprise appearance at the iowa state fair and now she released a video saying see you september 3rd. you know, look, either this is her last chance. she either gets in or gets out after this visit next week. i think she gets in. >> on monday palin's pack put out a statement blasting rove that reads, any professional pundit claiming to have inside information regarding governor palin's personal decision is not only wrong but their comments are specifically intended to mislead the american public. and last night on fox, rove hit back, where it hurts. palin's ego. >> look, if she doesn't want to be speculated about as a potential presidential candidate, there's an easy way to end speculation. simply say, i'm not running. a sign of an enormous thin skin if we speculate about her she getsup set. if we gets i suspect she'ding upset and try to get us a way to speculate about her. >> not call eade nowouldn't enj

enormous. i can tell you that. welcome to you both. nia, why should sarah palin be upset about people speculating about her president's ambitions? isn't that what she wants? >> by all accounts, exactly what she wants. look at the iowa commercial, slickly produced. there in the run-ups there in the run up to the ames iowa straw poll and there is speculation about whether or not she is running to keep the interest in her around. and also to remain relevant. of course, we remember in 2009, she could facebook post or tweet, really dominate the national discussion and frame a debate. remember her talking about death penalty, so much so that president today respond to it. that changed over the last two years. you've got now a field of republican hopefules who really dominate the conversation. so i do think this is her pitch

to try to remain relevant. we will see what she does in iowa, in september. but of course, i think one of the things that is happening is that time is running short. she is going to get some deadlines where she would have to eventually say she is going to do this thing or not. >> that's a good question. sam, when is late too late to get into a presidential race? she is running out of time, isn't she? >> you would say there was an opening a couple weeks ago, then rick perry galluped into the field and immediately became the front-runner i think sucked up a lot of the oxygen, oxygen that had sarah palin jumped in, she had take wo have taken. the timeframe is narrowing for her to make an entrance. but he is also right in the sense that the speculation is what she thrives on. she sold books off this stuff. she gets a continued access to any media she wants off this stuff. so for her to play the victim card here, which is something she has done frequently in the

past, is ironic. with regards to the calendar, we are actually running into some sort of time period here, actual election in iowa will happen either in late december or late january, early february. it is time it start campaigning. >> mnia, this bad blood between roach and palin, is this a stand-in rift between the tea party and stand-in republicans? >> in some senses it is. you have seen it already. when he talks about private sector experience and he said, well, romney has had this private sector experience at bane capitol but i've had it on the family farm. so, yeah, i think that is something you will see play out. perry will try it make it seem like romney is like a john ker rift republican party, so yeah, this is a real rift. one of the things that with the last election, you saw a real rift, almost 50/50 split between the folks in terms of who they voted for, a split between lower

educated or republicans more church goers. high school graduates between college graduates so i think this is something we will see play out and that obviously palin is playing into here with her fight with rove. >> sam, we just have a little bit of time left here. but wrs it seems to me that the polls are not really running with sarah palin at this point. most people seem to be over her. >> yeah, i think that's part of the problem, is that she doesn't generate the type of hype she once did. where as she was the voice of the ant anti-obama crowd, now there is more voices to fill that. karl rove is still very much protecting the prty he built and the bush legacy. a huge swath of the tea party faction stakes claim from the bush administration. they openly criticize to control spending. i think rove looks at that and says, list listen, the eight

years i was there, or six years, weren't that bad. he feels the need to defend it. yes, there san opentive between him and palin and him and when he was asked between the difference of him and george w. bush, he says, bush went to yale and i went to texas a & m. we have to leave it there. when we return, let me finish with what i really think about mitt romney. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. it can get really complicated. not nearly as complicated as shipping it, though. i mean shipping is a hassle. not with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. that is easy. best news i've heard all day! i'm soooo amped! i mean not amped. excited. well, sort of amped. really kind of in between. have you ever thought about decaf? do you think that would help? yeah. priority mail flat rate shipping starts at just $4.95,

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let me finish tonight with mitt romney. the front-runner changed his mind again. that might not make headlines above the fold. romney switches his opinions more off then than newt gingrich swaps wives. he treats his own beliefs like clothing purchased at nordstroms. tries them foreign a while, but someone complains he doesn't look good in green, he trades them in for something new. this guy pretends to not approve of his own healthcare policy. back in june, that's june of this year, romney seemed to accept, if only in a hazy noncommittal kind of way, the scientifics that laws of physics still apply here on planet earth. that if you pump heat tapping gasses into our atmosphere, they will tend to trab heat.

i believe the world is getting hotter and i believe that humans have contributed to that. so said romney, way back in the misty before time, two and half months ago. since then, he's discovered that signs, reason, even the laws of physics have no place at the current republican table. with the skengs of jon huntsman who seems driven either by self respect or a keen urge to commit political suicide, today's ambitious republicans tend to see fact as annoying obstacles blocking the view of their more colorful fantasies. we don't need no stinking signs. take your reality based and shove it. so the pepped embraced reality is calling on his talent of vagueness. does rommy still think the planet is warming? yeah, he said yesterday. i don't know, but i think it is.