combination. >> you have to shake things up. thanks for your texts and e-mails, thanks, rob. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ as it is projected now, this is not just going to be a shore incident. this is going to be a statewide incident. from a flooding perspective this could be a 100-year event.100 y. people should not take this lightly. now, you know, i can't control the track of the storm. so we have to prepare for the worst. >> we will make a decision about whether to order a mandatory evacuation of zone a by 8:00 a.m. saturday, the day after tomorrow. however, we recommend you go to alternative locations if you have them because of traffic

jams on saturday. >> whoa. there we go. lower manhattan, a little fog coming in. the sun trying to break out. it's friday august 26th, good morning. there's north carolina. you put up a shot of a skyline, efbd thinks it's new york city. do we have the other shot? yeah. okay. that's what i said. >> hurricane is coming. >> this is -- let me tell you something, this is going to be an extraordinary day for you. mike barnicle at the table. jonathan capehart, nice job on doing willie's show. >> thank you very much. >> applaud. >> thank you. >> nick cristoh.

washington bureau chief michael crowley and margaret carlson. >> good morning, mike. >> how is everybody doing? >> good. >> sick of hurricanes. >> we're dry. >> oh, yeah. >> think of all weathermen except nbcs. >> where is bill karins. where are you? >> i have a new toy. i have a big-screen tv, not bad, right? mike barnicle, you are in charge, is that what i'm getting out of this thing? >> try to speak slowly and in english, if you can. >> sure. >> try not to talk about the yankees winning yesterday. tell me about the track of the hurricane as best as you can measure. where is it and where can we expect it to go. >> slowly for you.

if you are just waking up, not a lot changed overnight. it weakened slightly. don't pay attention to that. it's still huge. it's still on the forecasted track up the eastern sea board. there was a shift into new england that could have significant impacts for new york city. the radar is filling up. just a huge mass of rain. 50 miles off the coast of north carolina. the bottom line for eastern north carolina, this morning is the time to prepare. it will probably get ugly later this afternoon. the storm is huge. it dwarfs the size of florida. it's a huge, huge storm size wise. it's going to affect millions of people along the east coast. the tropical forecast winds in orange are 300 miles wide. take it northwards up the coast. that's why so many are going to lose power.

the warnings and watches, hurricane watches from boston to cape cod, providence, long island, new york city. the jersey shore to eastern north carolina. we are getting new information. we are expecting even though it's only a category 2 or 3 hurricane, a surge up to ten feet in eastern north carolina. all of eastern north carolina, if your elevation is below ten feet, evacuate and get out of there before the water rises. jersey shore, as high as 60 in long island. let's break down what mike wanted. here is the forecast track. this is the 5:00 east coast advisory from the hurricane center. the time line is faster. saturday either early in the afternoon or late in the morning, category 3 land fall, eastern north carolina. mostly on the outer banks.

the forecast improves for wilmington and raleigh areas. then along the coast during the overnight dark hours. by the time we wake up sunday morning, irene will be a category 2 storm going down to a 1. new york city, instead of an afternoon event on sunday, now the worst of it is in the morning hours sunday. new york or long island, you need to prepare today. then your saturday morning will be okay. saturday afternoon could get dicey, too. mike, now all your questions. >> all right. the good news is, if there is good news, it's going to occur, the event is going to occur in east coast cities largely on a weekend. >> correct. >> now your models that you guys have, the play models, is there a possibility the storm track shifts east or further inland? >> okay. we had the wiggles watching.

these are the spaghetti lines of possibility. the furthest to the right goes over rhode island, cape cod and boston. the left brings it up to chesapeake bay. six of them are putting it in the middle, over the jersey shore. that's why the hurricane center has that exact forecast. there's wiggle room. it's more and more likely it's going to rake the coast and make land fall over long island. this forecast, we're talking 36 hours from saturday morning to dinner time on sunday, that this storm will do millions of dollars of damage. >> i get the chance to order you around. we are going to get back to you. first, we are going to mike seidel. he's in north carolina. mike, what's going on down there. >> mike barnicle. good morning. the sun is about to come up. a beautiful scene here over the beaches of the outer banks. got some seagulls out there.

what we noticed today is the wave action picked up. the swell is going up the coast well ahead of hurricane irene. there's more of a thunderous noise on the coast. everybody is out of town, including tourists. there will be residents that will not leave. they don't want to leave. meanwhile, the hurricane battered the bahamas yesterday. an unofficial report of 116-mile-an-hour gusts. in nassau, 62 miles an hour. that's not too bad. our weather goes down here late tonight. our band weather is mostly tomorrow. we could take a direct hit from the major hurricane. it's a strong category 2, maybe becoming a strong category 3. the strongest they have seen in recent years was isabel eight years ago. we'll keep you updated. we may have to evacuate.

we'll make that decision later today. >> thanks very much. i don't know. looks like a phony baloney deal down there. >> here we go. >> have the beach to ourselves. >> are you still across the hall with your ridiculous machine? >> yes, i am here with my large-screen tv. >> explain to us what happens to the left and right of those lines, particularly to large cities. what happens to the right. >> slightly to the right, a 20 mile shift, d.c., the i-95 corridor on the left side of the storm. it's not all fun and games, you'll get the heavier rain. because of that and the loose soil because of the rain, you have the best chance of trees

coming down, too. you aren't going to see the hurricane force winds. you won't see tropical storm force winds, winds 40 to 60 miles per hour. you will deal with flooding and power outages. the east side, the worst storm surge and the hurricane force winds. we are concerned with structures on the jersey shore and rhode island and connecticut. you could get wind damage to the structures. i don't think we'll see wind damage to the roofs, d.c., filly and up. i think your houses are plenty sturdy for that. my biggest advice, go outside today, look at your property, look at your trees. during the storm, the peak of it, be in a safe room, the safest room possible, play games, whatever you have to do. don't be near big trees that could fall. go to the safest spot of the

house. that's my advice for you. >> i have advice, too. my advice to everybody stay to the left of bill's line. get an umbrella and you are going to be okay. all right. back to reality. back to the real world. since launching his presidential campaign two weeks ago, rick perry is under fire for some of his comments. governor perry tried defending himself with harsh words for critics. >> with all due respect to anybody out there criticizing me because of speak plainly, i call it like i see it. look, i'm not an establishment figure, never have been and i don't want to be. i dislike washington, i think it's a seedy place. >> mike crowley, i'll put the ball there. david brooks in the new york times indicates rick perry could be president. >> yeah.

look, i think this seems to be what republican voters want now, a clarity, a toughness and the fact that you are being attacked by the coastal elites and media, supposedly is a virtue for a republican candidate. the republican party operates in opposition to the coastal elite establishment. if you can turn yourself into this crusader against them effectively and use tough language, i think it's a path to success in the republican primary. it doesn't work as well in the general election. perry is going to have to pack. he's well ahead of romney now. >> that clearly is a split between winning the primary and the general for the republicans. there's some tension there. >> nick, i had an interesting thing occur to me a couple days ago. i come out of the supermarket at quarter to 8:00 in the morning. a fellow comes up to me parked

alongside in the supermarket parking lot. remember the electrical workers union likes president obama very much, voted for him. he's talking act the economy and the problems his family confronted. he was laid off for awhile. he tells me, look, maybe three years ago we made a mistake, speaking about his vote for president obama. there's a huge opening here for almost anyone, including governor rick perry. >> yeah. i was back in my hometown in oregon, an area that has been hurt by the recession, a lot of unempl unemployed. people are disillusioned by president obama. on the other hand, i think they are worried by republicans. republicans haven't stepped up to the plate. they are turned off by everybody in washington. it creates opening for people like perry. >> isn't that the same?

both sides. people paid attention to the debt ceiling debate more than a lot of us imagined. i think they paid attention to it in the sense that these people couldn't work where i work. they can't get nothing done. >> if it's touching you, you are going to pay attention. the debt ceiling was wrapped up in where's my job, where did it go? rick perry speaks in the opposite way that mitt romney speaks. you are almost drown to it. mitt romney doesn't seem genuine. whether you like what he's saying or not, he's saying it. it's very clear. i don't like that we live in a seedy place. i found out from bill karins we are not going to be hit by the storm. god is not going to punish us. we are to the left of it. as he would say, we are on the left. >> rick perry is on the right of the line. >> people aren't going to

analyze how he got those jobs in texas. they are going to say he brought jobs to texas. i would do anything for one of those low-paying jobs without benefits. >> there's a negative factor against romney. i's important and interesting. health care is coming up at every one of his town hall forums. some of us in the media felt he did a speech about it in may, didn't apologize, explained the differences between his plan and obama's plan. it cooled off. in the town hall forum, everybody is getting up. it's like hillary clinton in iraq. they want to know what is the deal with the plan. why did you do that? it's the same as obama care. it's going to hurt. >> with perry and his interview with laura ingram, i wonder, people like the fact that rick perry says what he thinks.

doesn't that get old? don't people get tired of the bath? >> i think it's so -- look the republicans have been speed dating. donald trump always said what he felt, gone. michele bachmann, sarah palin going to announce something september 3rd. maybe rick perry is like those. republicans are taken up by him because he's saying things people want to hear. then they toss him aside to the next handsome guy coming along. >> yesterday, minnesota congresswoman michele bachmann said her mission is to have a republican majority in the senate, encouraging them to elect 13 more jim demints. she explained her other plan for washington. >> we are going to shrink back spending. we are going to lock a lot of

doors in washington, d.c. then we're going to change the tax code, then we're going to repeal dodd-frank and obama care. my to-do list starts with the four years nancy pelosi had the gavel and look at everything she did and repeal. you have to start somewhere. >> nick, she's -- i mean, rick perry's going to kill her. >> what frustrates me is this unbelievable economic illiteracy to talk about that. >> are you surprised? >> no, i'm not. that has a populous appeal right now. after another year of another economic downturn, it may have more. you know -- >> if she's president, we're going to have $2 a gallon gas. >> bring it on. >> president bachmann. >> milk, down to $1.50 a gallon.

>> it has real appeal outlet there. the sense that washington is totally screwed up. somebody is speaking bluntly against washington. >> it is. everybody knows washington is screwed up. that's the dilemma, is it not? >> it is. the problem with everything she said is repeal, repeal, repeal. there's no forward thinking or forward looking policy she's presenting. you repeal obama care? what's going to go in its place. >> it's political illiteracy. it's not going to happen. you are going to have 40 democrats in the senate. if you have a shift in power the way she's invisioning. they are not going to go through and check all the boxes. >> she's not telling the truth? coming up, her state is expected to take a direct hit from hurricane irene. north carolina governor will

join us. we'll talk to elijah cummings and eugene robinson. plus, ever want to see inside moammar gadhafi's compound? we go on a tour of the home he left behind. politico has the top stories out of washington including more from vice president cheney's new book. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ [ country ]

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well, it looks like they liberated tripoli. we have a live cbs satellite feed. let's go live to tripoli and see what's going on. here we go.

oh. looks like they are having a lot of fun. >> t.j., is that new york city? >> yes, it is. >> that's what i thought. thank you. let's take a look at the morning papers. this is not new york city. the guardian, secrgadhafi's bid save his regime including trying to persuade dennis kucinich to come for a peace mission. it never took place. the oregonian a paramedic who treated gadhafi loyalists was struck by the determination of the rebels who refused food,

water and fluids because of their religions. the obama administration is allowing mexican police from cross border raids. the move is intended to invade the surveillance of criminal organizations inside mexico. before we get to the next newspaper, we seem to be, in this country, completely avoiding a huge story in mexico. 30 to 40 people killed in monterey. there were drug wars in mexico making the cities more dangerous than baghdad. incredible. >> it's been largely attributable to drug use in the u.s. >> with us now, the chief white house correspondent, mike allen here with the morning playbook.

the phrase we are all waiting for, go ahead. >> happy friday! >> thank you very much. >> we have to say happy birthday to a friend of yours, a great journalist, great american, ben bradley. he is 90 today. 9-0. >> he's a great man. 90 years old, a great man. happy birthday, ben bradley. >> it's a big day in washington. bob barnett. >> bob barnett? >> bob barnett and ben bradly. >> do you think he gets 10% of bradley's birthday cake? he's a lawyer. for those of you following at home. okay. mike, you have more details on what's in former vice president dick cheney's memoir, right? >> yes. this gentleman from wyoming is having his last blast, "in my

time." one is that on election night 2000, he says the bush team was irritated and frustrated with al gore. listen to this. vice president cheney rights that he says who retracts a concession? he flashes back to 1976 when he was gerald ford's chief of staff. he says we waited and i slept on it before conceding to carter. if gore had any kind of professional operation, they would have seen it and never would have conceded in the first place. but the conceit is amateur hour. >> what is your sense of washington of what the political establishment thinks of the vice president's book and what's been

released so far? >> this is four decades of washington intrigue. he starts, he talks about the ford election and behind the scenes with after gerald ford said that the soviet union did not dominate eastern europe and how they dealt with the crisis management there, how gerald ford resisted retracting. we have a sweep of history. what people will say is he offers no concessions, policies or revisions. there's not a single mistake made in eight years of the bush administration. dick cheney says yes, like donald rumsfeld, no apologies approach to history. >> margaret, there's a picture, i believe it's in the book, of president ford surrounded by dick cheney and don rumsfeld. it's staggering to think the

picture was taken in 1975. >> he had a lot of hair. he doesn't look like himself. >> i mean the sweep of history and events that occurred. >> dick cheney doesn't look like himself or act like he did back then. he was a moderate republican. he was bob dole. you know, it was such a different party. the party of rick perry, with the words we have been listening to this morning. >> the foreign policy mainstream. one of the things we now know from his book is he advocated a strike on syria and on the times nuclear facility. two more military conflicts if he had been -- >> dr. strange love. >> he was thinking about canada. >> italian villa. >> thanks very much. vice president cheney sits down for an exclusive interview

airing this monday on "dateline." the vice president will be live here on "morning joe" next thursday. coming up, the labor groups backing up their support of the democratic party? we're going to talk to jimmy hoffa. next, the yankees make a bit of history last night. three grand slams against the oakland as. anyway, who cares because the little engine that could, the boston red sox. that is preseason football high ligs when "morning joe" returns. ♪ okay, so who ordered the cereal

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." you are looking at clouds over atlantic beach in new jersey as we await the arrival of one powerful hurricane, hurricane irene. a new wall street journal report suggests that rebel forces receive significant interest

somewhere in moammar gadhafi's circle. the paper calls a double agent in the gadhafi camp. the report says the officer would issue arrest orders for rebels by day and meet secretly with opposition members at night. while the libyan leader remains in hiding, we are getting an up close look at what he left behind. richard engel is in tripoli where he toured gadhafi's former compound. >> reporter: hundreds of rebels battle gadhafi royalists with all the power they have. take away the injured and arrest a mercenary. nearby, for the first time, we were able to visit deep inside gadhafi's compound. it was from this balcony he addressed crowds. what a different perspective he

would have today. it's ransacked. a peek at how he lived and how his glory faded. >> this is one of his bathrooms, jacuzzi tub, all the lights are out. in here is the bedroom. under the debris was gadhafi's bed. 20 feet below, an extensive network of bunkers. he says gadhafi used the tunnels to go across the city and maybe used them to escape during the assault. there's a control center here. here is a list of media organizations, cnn, abdhabi, there's an exit here. a small porthole that goes to the outside. the network of tunnels extends for miles. our colleague, stephanie gosk saw many. >> it's wide enough for gulf

carts. it's not clear if he used this one. he won't be using it anytime soon. these stairs lead up from the tunnels. must have been back up into gadhafi's house. you can see how paranoid he was as this indirection was going on around the country. they sealed it off for security. >> reporter: the tunnels that may have helped gadhafi escape but now with a bounty on his head, every rebel in libya is looking for them. >> that was richard engel reporting from tripoli. many people, as they go to philadelphia, nick is going to libya. >> i'm heading there tomorrow. one step ahead of the hurricane. >> you were talking during the break before that piece was on about an interesting aspect of the operation in libya. >> we intervene originally to prevent the massacre in benghazi. i would love to see in your

reporting how many civilians died and who knows, we could have an insurgency now. we may see a lot more deaths to come. i'm interested to see how many innocents were swept up in this, how many innocent people died. the moral questions that come when we do a final count of the death toll from our intervention versus what we were seeing if we didn't act. clearly, the outcome, you don't have a slaughter. i don't have a great sense for that, i guess. >> i was very much in favor of the intervention. it's one reason i want to go. the hard part now begins and there are real risks that libya is going to defend. i kind of think i owe it to go and see where things unfold from here and what, if anything the world can do to reduce the possibility of an iraq style outcome. >> one of the biggest things

they have to deal with is the disarmorment of people in libya. it's a nation so thoroughly armed. >> it is true. in a tribal society that does have a tribal hierarchy, every home can have an ak 47. people don't intend on using them against each other. it is possible libya can manage to create order through those tribal hierarchies. >> if they don't, having intervened on humanitarian grounds, it's hard for the obama administration to say let them shoot it out. i think it's potentially problemat problematic. >> speaking of moral obligations, we have the obligation to mention the

football league preseason. like who cares but last night redskins in a meaningless game, they are not sure who the starting quarterback is going to be. joe, a real star, can't find guys. he gets kicked off by hall. hall might get taken down. takes it to the end zone. touchdown redskins. hey, later. quarterback rex grossman and high tower creating seven yards. wow. he can move. >> all right. >> the ravens came back. look at that. touchdown. 35 yards. third quarter, again. this time, back in the end zone. baltimore beats the redskins.

super bowl is in two weeks. are you going? >> no it's not. >> on to america's game, baseball. the new york yankees brutal beating the oakland as. down 7-2. bases loaded. grand slam. as lead 7-6. bottom of the sixth. russell martin, right center. another grand slam. 17-8. curtis granderson, stop the madness, third grand slam of the day. they are the first team to hit three grand slams in a single game and beat oakland. they wouldn't stop beating up on them, 22-8. that was yankee's stadium. you been there? >> the old yankee's stadium. not the new one. >> you enjoyed it? >> i did.

not as a child. >> okay. the real team was playing texas last night. >> oh. >> the little engine that could, the boston red sox. gonzalez. solo home run first inning. off alexi. does it again. a two-run homer. gonzalez got three home runs. they could have beat them 22-8, they decided not to. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] this...is the network --

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♪ >> president obama is on vacation, he gets the daily briefings. he's not really taking a vacation. it's not like i'm not taking calls or don't bother me i'm on vacation. i's not like that at all. he gets daily briefings. they are talking about syria, hot spots around the world, libya. he wants to know about kim kardashian's honeymoon, 24/7. >> there you go. flagler beach, florida. people preparing for the hurricane. we'll have more on that at the top of the hour from bill karins. stay to the left of bill karins line and you'll be fine as long

as you have an umbrella. there it is. >> that's big. >> yeah. almost as big as the hurricane in 1938. i remember, i was in the middle of that. i'm kidding. i'm kidding you. >> we see shock. >> you selected some of mika's op-eds. >> we have chosen two. the first is in the new york times, president rick perry. romney has to prove his own roughness taking on perry directly. he's the latest tom delay republicanism. the man so right wing today was for al gore in 1988. the second line of attack is shift what the campaign is about. if voters think nancy pelosi is the biggest threat they will hire perry. if they think chinese and indian

workers is the biggest threat, they will hire romney. romney might be able to beat back the perry surge in the meantime, it's time to take perry seriously. he could with our next president. >> do you think romney is going to iowa to take on rick perry? >> it's risky. what i wonder is what perry has in his hold. if it's the free publicity he got, the attention he's getting in the race. he was on tv and in the papers. a lot of republicans don't see romney out there. he's sort of running, where is he, i don't see him. if that persists and the number is real, he may have to bring the fight to him. the hope for romney in iowa would be that there are moderate voters, even in the iowa republican party and the hope would be that perry, bachmann and cane and the very

conservative candidates splinter the tea party vote and romney could win with plurality of moderate voters. it's very risky. >> if he doesn't, isn't that riskier? if he goes to iowa and finishes a strong second, that would help him more in new hampshire than not going to iowa and getting his clock cleaned. >> yeah. i think there is some risk of getting in debates with perry. as perry goes up and up, he's got to tackle it. he's got to join the debate otherwise he's left out. >> remember, you know, sometimes you wait too long to engage. look at rudy giuliani like so many new yorkers he went to florida to die. you have to get in. however, i think you can

marginalize iowa and say i'm standing in new hampshire. it's a caucus state. you don't want to be hillary clinton putting everything in and not getting there. >> i keep wondering, what's happening to jon huntsman? >> poor man. >> you know? >> when you look at the latest gallup poll, his numbers have gone down. he went from 3% when he first announced to 1%. he's the incredibly shrinking candidate yet he's got a moderate message that rings true. it's something the voters want to hear. >> he came to bloomburg yesterday and he was so impressive. his tax reform is real. he taxed capital gains as ordinary income. when does a republican presidential candidate say that. you can see how he could be president. you cannot see how he can get the nomination. >> as we get closer to the

election, is it possible the republican voters are more concerned about who is electable. >> the win factor. >> i think that's what happening can john kerry. howard dean was getting the attention. i think huntsman played the role lieberman did. you could have a prowar duff on democratic party. it's not what they were looking for at the time. >> we have a clip from governor huntsman yesterday. >> as president, i wouldn't hesitate to call on sacrifice from all our people, even though at the highest end of the income. >> higher taxes? >> i'm not saying higher taxes. i'm saying there are contributions they can make, too. there are people that can give perhaps more than others as it relates to the means testing

around social security and medicare. i think we need to look realistically at where we are. >> yeah. >> my question to all of you is when do you figure other politicians on the republican side of the aisle, when are they going to figure out instead of raising their hand on that, these stupid questions, i'll never raise taxes than when you go out and talk to people, they talk means testing. people know you have to address entitlements. people know you need to widen the revenue stream, whether new taxes or whatever. when are they going to catch on. >> there is indeed one tax increase that republicans are indeed talking about being in favor, that is raising the payroll taxes. democrats are hammering them on that. you know, you want to extend the bush tax cuts but not the payroll tax cuts that apply to most americans.

there's vulnerability there on the republican side. >> people talk, you say people are talking about raising taxes on the revenue side of this. on the campaign trail, you don't hear that. the republicans in the states are not talking that way. the candidates talking to those voters trying to win the iowa caucus doesn't see a profit. when you get to the general election, you might see a pivot. right now, there's not a pay off for them in the republican primary. >> okay. >> coming up, later in the show, actor and best selling author, hill harper with his book, "the wealth cure." more "morning joe" when we come back. woman: day care can be expensive. so to save some money,

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you see that orange swirl there? here she comes. hurricane irene barrelling up the east coast across from florida. it's a great time to talk about something. something near and dear to my heart. >> what is it, jonathan? >> some of the best moments in

weather reporting. let's take a look back. >> oh, jesus! listen to that. son of a -- that's unbelievable. >> the windchill is painful. >> the wind is so bad here in palm springs, it caused this stoplight -- oh! >> our truck operator said don't you wish you had your weight back. right now i do. >> as of now, very, very windy. back to you. >> these waves continue to pound on shore. hurricane ike is coming on a couple hours ago. hold on. >> i hope he got up.

coming up next, we'll get a live report on hurricane irene barrelling down on the east coast. also, washington post eugene robinson will be joining us. i have copd. if you have it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and what that feels like. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms... by keeping my airways open a full 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. and it's steroid-free. spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms.

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hours of sunday morning. based on the latest forecast, it will be a category 1 storm. let me remind you this kind of forecast is very imprecise. we are talking about something that is a long time away. what we have to do is assume the worst, prepare for that and hope for the best. >> mayor bloomberg in new york. you are looking at central park. fog, mist, the sun trying to breakthrough. hurricane irene coming up the east coast. why they named hurricane irene and jack and stuff like that. good morning. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm mike barnicle. still with us, jonathan capehart. joining us in washington, gene robinson. how much longer do we have to

call you a prize winner? it was ten years ago. we'll give you a hurricane update. states along the east coast are preparing for irene as the storm heads to coastal north carolina. the outer banks are expected to get the worst of it. the national weather service says heightened waves and swells up to nine feet high are striking the area. the governors of at least seven states declared a state of emergency including new jersey. president obama who spent nearly four hours on the beach in martha's vineyard declared a federal state of emergency in north carolina. in new york city, mayor bloomberg is preparing them for flooding and shutting down the public transportation system. up to 250,000 people living in

low-lying areas could be evacuated. one of the casualties of the hurricane watch and the hurricane itself, gene has already taken place in washington, d.c. where the nation and the district of columbia were preparing for the dedication this sunday of the martin luther king memorial. it's been postponed. >> it was going to be sunday, mike. it's been postponed indefinitely. that only makes sense. even if washington doesn't get hit with the full force of the storm, just the logistics, they were expecting 250,000 people for this event. clearly going to get a lot of rain and some wind, power outages. entertainers to perform and dignitaries trying to get in and out and travel up and down the east coast. this weekend is going to be

basically impossible. it's certainly going to be difficult. it's being postponed. they will have it sometime in september or october. they will have to find another date for the formal dedication of this memorial. meanwhile, the memorial itself opened earlier this week. you can go there and see what is really quite a nice, quite an amazing and moving memorial. >> gene, you wrote about dr. king. king and his fellow civil rights leaders undergood jobs that paid good wages. if they were alive today, given the devastating blows poor and working class americans suffered, they would be playing a march on washington for jobs and freedom, too.

king was passionate speaking not just for african-americans but all americans seeking to pull themselves out of poverty and dysfuncti dysfunction. we haven't just failed to make progress, we have stopped trying. nick, you travel the world but a good deal in the united states. some of us, especially within the political system seem, can't seem to get over the fact, the reality. nobody wants to be born poor in this country. yet, you know where i'm going. >> i do. i think there are two really troubling trends we have seen. one is toward economic inequality. 400 americans have more net worth than 160 million. it's been soaring. it goes to what gene is writing about. the other is education. whether you are talking africa or talking about new york, then the most effective escalator out

of poverty is education. since the 1970s, we basically failed on that front. democrats divulge republicans. if we are going to address poverty, there are a lot of solutions. one is improving our education system especially in inner cities. >> economists and politicians talk about economic growth, obviously, corporate growth and what's happening on wall street. if you walk around as i'm sure you have, nick, michael, jonathan, margaret in terms of the news business, gross national product ought to involve the imagination and creativity that is lost among so many young people who disappear through the slats at younger and younger ages because of inadequate education later on in

their lives. >> we are squandering a precious resource. we are squandering this creativity and drive and imagination. the next steve jobs could, you know, be in one of these neighborhoods that we essentially write off these days. nick is absolutely right and you are right about education being this escalator out of poverty. the other escalator, traditionally has been blue collar jobs that allowed, for examp example, millions of african-americans who took the migration to several cities in chicago and detroit to find good jobs that gave them, let them have a house and pension and raise their families and send their kids to college. those jobs are missing, they are gone. it's a combination, no education, no jobs makes it very

tough. >> i think a lot of americans may not fully appreciate part of this dynamic. i think the quick snapshot in the media when you think of unemployment, you think middle class, middle-aged white guy out of a job. he was a construction worker. in black america, unemployment is off the charts. in this recession is hitting african-americans disproportionately hard. it's a crisis for everyone. sometimes we don't appreciate how much worse it is, relative to the national picture in black communities. that's a real emergency. >> i agree. absolutely agree. >> what's amazing is what you know and don't do anything about. we know in another week or so, there are going to be kids, a child is going to go into third, fourth, fifth grade where the light goes out in their eyes

because they are in a bad school. we don't put it at the top of the list of things we need to do. >> the other side of the coin is a child in a bad school. often, quite often it's the safest place they are going to be in the day. >> you hope. >> look at this new york times op-ed i'm going to try to read. dr. king weeps from his grave. the age of obama has fallen short of fulfilling king's legacy. instead of a democratic vision and fighting for homeowners workers and in the form of bail outs, housing, we got bail outs for banks, profit. king weeps from his grave. he never confused substance with symbolism. we celebrate his substance and sacrifice because he loved us

all so deeply. we too often fear the challenge he embraced. >> i think it's natural to think that washington has blown it on issues like jobs. frankly, i wonder whether we, in the national media haven't dropped the ball on jobs. think about the issues we help set. we focus so much on debt, for example. you know, i think out there 25 million americans are unemployed or underemployed. we haven't done nearly enough to keep that issue on the agenda. >> that is so right. that is so right. in every poll for the last couple of years, you ask people what do you care about? jobs. jobs and the unemployment crisis has been at the top of this

nation's agenda out in the country for years now yet somehow it doesn't rise to the top of our agenda in the sort of media elite. >> can i ask a question, though? when it comes to jobs, we talk about this around the table all the time. if the american people want jobs, what can a president actually do to create jobs? can we go to a bank or a company and say here you must hire x number of people? what can people expect a president to do? >> go ahead. >> there could have been a bigger stimulus program. obama says he couldn't have gotten it through congress. we have bridges to fix, roads to pave. there are a lot of things to do that way. with the republican house, there's a limit. i think if obama had it to do over again, he would have done jobs first and obama care second.

as far as policies, he had to save the banks. he had to do tarp and some of those things that resulted in widening the gap between the top and the bottom. >> one of the misreported things about t.a.r.p. is that it was a great deal for the taxpayers. they got the money back with interest. that was a great deal. maybe, i'm not in the advice area certainly, but we were talking act it, maybe the president should go back -- president roosevelt gave a speech in 1936. i wasn't there. >> that i know. >> october, 1936, he talked about very similar issues that confronted president obama today. a congress, a republican-led congress that was violently opposed to every new program. works progress administration, built bridges, things like that. he said they hate my policies, they hate me and he paused for a

sec and he said and i welcome their hatred. bring it on. >> that's totally missing. remember, the wealthy people or the bankers are so offended by obama because he once called them fat cats. that was it. >> no, no, no. i think it's more than that. there's a dmonization of financial services for political purposes. >> not by the president. >> not by the president. dodd-frank. >> they got him to back down. a key point i want to make sure everyone is clear on, t.a.r.p. is not something obama did. it's crucial to the creation of the tea party going after the republicans who supported t.a.r.p. and were angry at bush for it. >> you ever walk around a tea party rally? most of them good people. interested legitimately.

they have medicare and v.a. loans. >> they want to shrink government. >> that makes sense. here is a guy that makes sense. bill karins with the latest on hurricane irene. does it still stay to the west of the phony baa low any line? >> good morning, everybody. if you are joining us, let me give you the latest on the track. 5:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. every 36 hours we get the major forecast update. this is the 5:00 a.m. advisory. it didn't change much since 11:00 p.m. it shifted to the east by maybe 20 miles. that will depend on storm surge. as far as the timing goes, it's earlier. less time to prepare. eastern north carolina you are about 12 hours to prepare for the worst of the weather begins in your area. the storm should be category 2.

take the jersey shore to maryland where we are going to deal with that. by the time it gets up to new york city, it could be on the east side. new york city would be right in here. that would be on the backside of the storm. we get some storm surge, then the winds blow out of the harbor sunday afternoon. remember the left side of the storm is the wet side, the right is the windier side of the system. as far as what we are dealing with, and the way the storm is going to track throughout the day and tonight, toward north carolina as the wind field is so huge, we are going to see the effects so wide. tropical storm winds are in your area for about 24 hours. the winds, this is the timing of it. 5:00 a.m. saturday, tropical force winds up the beach and approaching and heading on to the coast. it goes inland. land fall around midday

saturday. notice even in new jersey, as early as saturday afternoon, around cape may, tropical form winds arriving. throughout the evening hours, throughout saturday evening, that's when the tropical storm force winds arrive in new york city and southern long island. not a lot changed overnight. we are expecting a billion dollar disaster up the coast from hurricane irene. >> i have a serious question for you. >> sure. >> do you, as a forecaster, obviously you provide warnings for people and this is great information but do you worry about the overlap of hurricane hysteria? >> not in one where a hurricane hasn'ted happened for a long time. when florida had their fifth one, telling people to get water and batteries is redundant. a lot of people haven't seen this or experienced the storm

from the 1800s like you did. >> by the way, the tv was the first thing that went out then. >> i didn't have information like this. i appreciate it. coming up, we're going to talk to congressman elijah cummings. next, we go live to washington and craig with the latest from the government response plan. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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joining us now from washington, d.c., the administrator of fema, craig fugate. thank you for joining us. how many people should be evacuated and from where?

what's going on? >> the people that need to evacuate are where the local areas tell you. it's going to increase as the storm moves toward the north. local evacuation orders are where the officials made the decision. when they give it, it's time to go. >> what is fema doing to prepare for this as it barrels up the east coast? what have you done and what are you doing? >> we have been doing this now since last weekend when it was threatening the u.s. virgin islands and puerto rico. we are getting our folks, we sent teams in to join up with the govern's team. also moving supplies in locations up and down the east coast to get ready in case we have to supply resources to the state. the entire team is working to get ready, not just fema but local state officials. >> administrator, this is

jonathan capehart. i have two questions for you. one, what are the three things when people evacuate and find themselves leaving their home, what are the three things to have when they leave? then i'll ask my second question. >> sure. if you are ordered to evacuate, hopefully you have the plan and know where to go. a lot of people get on the road, don't have a destination and where to go. how far do i need to go for safety. take important papers and don't forget your pets. >> three good points. we have been talking all morning about how governs in the path of hurricane irene are declaring a state of emergency. that's a term of art. they have to declare a state of emergency for all sorts of material and funding to come from the federal government. how does that work?

>> they declare emergencies because under a state constitution, they can waive requirements for certain things to speed up response. oftentimes, they activate their teams to get everything in place. it's the first step of them determining if they are going to need federal assistance and requesting from the president a declaration of support for their response. >> the president has to declare a state of emergency legally for that money to flow from the federal government to the states, right? >> it's called a declared disaster and emergency declaration. congress changed the law after katrina to move supplies and teams into the area. we don't have to wait for the formal request, but after the impacts they could get reimbursement for the costs if the president declared that

area. >> mr. fugate, that last answer begs the question, what are the biggest differences between fema today and fema prior to katrina other than the fact you are awake and alert. >> well, you have to go back to the aftermath of katrina and what congress did, called a post katrina emergency reform act. they had a lot of steps in there they wanted to see done differently including fema had the tools and resources for the states. we don't have to wait until it's really bad. again, that process will take place but should not slow down our response. >> good news. thanks for joining us. say hello to ricky for me. he's a good friend of mine. >> he's been busy. >> yeah. yeah. you have all been busy. take care of yourself. hurricane irene expected to make land fall on north carolina

tomorrow. we are going to talk to that governor on what's being done to prepare. up next, congressman elijah cummings is going to join the conversation. keep it here on "morning joe." we'll be right back. [ dr. ling ] i need to check on the blood work... and see katie before she goes home. [ male announcer ] with integrated healthcare solutions from dell, every file is where dr. ling needs it. now she can spend more time with patients and less time on paperwork. dell. the power to do more.

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in my view, his agenda is one of the primary reasons this downturn has been so deep and hard to get out. it's one of the primary reasons the clock goes around at the rate it goes around. president obama, when he was senator obama called the fact that george w. bush added to that deficit and called it unpatriotic. i wonder what he would consider his own action as president when that number is racing around like it is. >> governor mitt romney talking about the national deficit. democratic congressman from maryland representative elijah cummings. congressman, if you allow us, we are going to skip past the hurricane and get right to something that i think governor romney was eluding to. if you walk around in your

district, people care less about the deficit than the most important word in the english language, j-o-b, jobs. how do you reinforce the fact people want jobs? >> you are right. that's the number one question i get every day in my district. we have to work with the president when we come back to push a strong jobs agenda. the president made it clear he's going to give this speech. i'm hoping and i believe that speech will address the issues of infrastructure, spending, immediate spending. my illinois colleague has a bill that i think would create 2 million jobs in two years doing what we already do, that is improving our schools and making sure our youth are employed. the thing that is the president -- i think the

president needs to come out with a bold plan, a rational plan and we must present that to the nation and have the republicans say why they can't do it. understand, i don't think that the republicans want this president to achieve hardly anything. i think the president is right. they are much more concerned about the next election than the next generation and sometimes their own constituents. hopefully, by the president putting forth that plan, i know he will and us pushing behind him will get things done. >> congressman, gene washington has a question for you. >> congressman, when we talk a bold plan, are you thinking in terms of direct federal spending on infrastructure? how big are we talking? the jobs crisis is huge. >> yes. >> how big does the plan need to be?

>> gene, i'm talking reauthorizing the faa. i'm talking reauthorizing the transportation bill. yeah, we are going to have to spend money. all the experts are telling us we may have to do short term spending to get people working. when people are working, they are paying taxes. they don't have to draw unemployment. things of that nature. they create other jobs. that's the other thing. keep in mind, republicans when they were campaigning against the democrats, they said we are going to go to washington and we are going to create jobs. i have not seen evidence of that. if anything, i have seen them work against the jobs. we have, you know, i know the president is going to do this. i think he's well aware of it. he no longer has the threat of, you know, them trying to do us in with regard to the debt ceiling. he's gotten past that. now, i expect the president to

go out and push hard. >> nick kristof. >> isn't there a misconception the victims are just the unemployed? they are, in a larger sense at a time the longer you stay unemployed the less likely you are to return to the market. the american economy, the american society as a whole, the loss of that fabric when people stay out of jobs and can't find work. >> no doubt about it. we have legislation, basically making sure that -- assuring that people are not discriminated against because they have been out of jobs. there's been evidence that some employers would not hire a person after they have been out of a job for awhile because they think maybe they were not a very good employee when they were working. clearly, there are a lot of people suffering. in my district, i would venture to guess, in the african-american community, our

unemployment rate is 15.9 according to the stats. i can tell you, i think in my district, it's more like 25% to 30%. for black males, 40%. there is pain out there. again, we have got to concentrate on jobs. that has got to be our number one thing. >> i know you said american voters are frustrated with president obama. some of them would like to see him fight republicans harder. do you think he's going to have trouble mobilizing the african-american voters so essential to his election in 2008. how can he do that? >> first of all, he's reached out. there's an article in the post this morning that says he is now decided he's going to zero even harder on the african-american community. i think it's very important. first of all, you have to understand that 99% of the

african-americans i talk to strongly support the president. at the same time, it's not a question of support. the question is, will they come to the polls? i think if you are out of a job, if you lost your house, if your going through difficulties, it's hard to get excited. there's another thing the press seems to not get. a lot of african-americans, most of them feel this president has been treated unfairly. they believe he's done every single thing in his power to create jobs and make sure this economy moves forward. he's gone against fierce opposition. i think, i mean if you look at the evidence, that's true. he's accomplished a lot in the short time he's been president. the fact is, it has not been easy and will not continue to be easy. >> gene robinson has a question for you. >> during this recess, there's been a lot of town hall meetings

in which republican congressmen have been told about the jobs crisis and heard what people think about the economy and the need for to get things going again. do you think there's going to be any change in the attitude of the republican caucus going forward? >> gene, i really hope so. i was just in oklahoma city in a very, very red district at a town hall meeting. i can tell you, people, we had republicans and democrats. they were furious when they talked about the fact the republicans did not want to see any new revenue. yet, they were cutting the budget and a lot of the people that showed up for that meeting were people whose paychecks are going to be cut. some of them are losing their jobs. the pay is spread around quite a bit.

gene, the thing that is most upsetting to people, when they hear about the millionaires and billionaires not being a part of shared sacrifice. americans want to simply be treated fairly. they want to believe their children can do better than they did. people are not feeling that. we have to help them get back that hope and outlook. >> congressman, you are in oklahoma, a red state, did you run out of gas? >> i was invited. they said their congressman wouldn't hold a town hall meeting. so i came and i did it. >> wow. >> thanks very much congressman. >> all righty. >> gene, thanks for dropping by as well. gene robinson. up next, from raleigh, north carolina, governor deb purdue whose state is in the path of

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on the east coast, we are getting our folks, we sent teams in to join up with the governor's teams. also moving supplies in locations up and down the east coast to get ready in case we have to supply others. the entire team is working to get ready, not just fema but local and state officials. >> that was craig fugate. he was here moments ago on "morning joe." joining us now, the governor of north carolina, governor purdue. what is going on? what's been going on in your beautiful state, those outer banks. what is going on? where does it stand right now? >> yesterday, i declared a

disaster for the outer banks for the coast and the president's disaster has been approved. we are prepared for the worst and praying for the best. shelters are open. evacuations are happening all over the coast as we speak. red cross highway patrol, national guard is on the ground. shelters are open so folks have a place to go to. we are encouraging everybody to get out. today is the hard day. we have to way wait for the storm to hit. >> how many people are on the road do you estimate? >> well, we have no way to estimate the number of tourists. we're thinking at least 500,000 people affected up and down the bank. obviously, we are watching it. it's been downgraded to a two, we think she'll be a three by the time she gets here. our team is in place. we are helping folks to go

door-to-door, hotel-to-hotel and now we are ordering all our citizens off the coast. >> governor, when you declare a state of emergency specifically for north carolina, what does that mean and are you able to forcibly evacuate folks that decide they want to ride the storm out? >> jonathan, you can't. you know, that's the fallacy of the whole system. folks are free to do what they want to do in america. they can stay. we can very aggressively order tourists off. it's happened along the coastal county. in terms of residents, you will do stories tomorrow of folks staying there waiting for the wind and rain to hit. we have to pull our folks, our emergency personnel back inside as the storm comes. that does leave a person who chooses to stay at the mercy of themselves. that's a real danger. >> governor, one of the ripple effects of the storm in north

carolina and other states obviously has to do with budget issues. north carolina isn't different than other states, you are hard hit by unemployment. that means less tax revenue coming in. that's going to cost a lot of money. what do you do as governor? >> well there's a peripheral cost. this is the last big week of coastal tourism. you have labor day weekend ending it all up. we are trying to send the message and thank you for helping me that after sunday or monday there will be many places in north carolina closed. the state stress from the economy are difficult choices for all of it. we have the federal disaster declaration. we got that last night. the feds are our partners. fema is on the ground. right now, today, we are trying to figure out how to get through

this onslaught and regardless of the cost, we are going to do what we need to do in north carolina to keep our people safe and recover as quickly as we can. >> we don't have much time left, but is it a dark, downside to the storm and after the storm passed and after it's over there might be employment in reconstruction and things like that? >> i hadn't thought of that but obviously there will be some employment as people rebuild and prepare. this morning they said there's at least 27,000 or 28,000 structures that have an opportunity to be hit by the storm. we'll know by saturday or sunday. we all want jobs, but this isn't a way to get them quite frankly. >> thanks for joining us. coming up, with the economy stagnant, will the unions support president obama in 2012? jim hoffa is coming up next. you're watching "morning joe"

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this has been my life in the

house of representatives. nancy pelosi for speaker and barney frank for my chair. i had a front row seat and told people much of my time was spent being an enmy correspondent on the front line. telling the american people what was happening to them in congress. >> that was michele bachmann. now, we haveus. thanks for joining us. >> good morning, mike. >> what is going on? we were talking about it before your arrival here. traditionally, democrats, labor. >> right. >> common bond. but there seems now to be a little fragment in that relationship with president obama. is it indeed? >> these are hard times right now, mike. we're going through, this last debacle we had with raising the debt ceiling, the feeling is the president, everybody supports the president, labor is going to end up supporting that, and where are we going to go? support rick perry? you look at the dynamics of this, there's really not any

real choice. >> well, i've heard him say he's passionate about the economy. >> yeah, that's right. he's passionate about something. but i'm just saying they're making it relatively easy, or michele bachmann. it's not going to be a choice. these people want to do a lot of things to, you know, the american economy that we don't want. so you know, we're going to be backing the president. but if you want the president to fight harder. we don't want him to be rolled over like he was with regard to the unemployment in december. we don't want him to be rolled over like, you know, he did recently. like he wants to have some revenue. some cuts. everybody said hey, that makes sense, and it didn't happen. basically he got stared down and he blinked. we want him to fight harder. that's the message we're giving him. >> so he's coming to detroit on labor day. you're going to be with him. >> absolutely. >> what do you want to hear him say about getting jobs? >> he's going to announce, and i don't think he's going to do it labor day, but he's going to announce, if we have time with him we want to tell him, don't give anything away. you don't have to. we support you. but the answer is, you don't have to get up there, and he's going to be going into some

tough negotiations. you know, i don't know about anybody else, but if you know how to negotiate, you don't start getting up on a stage and start telling you what i'm going to give up. and i think he just got to be able to speak. this is where we have to go. this is what i want to do with regard, you know, to putting this economy back to the. i'm looking forward to his jobs program. but i hopefully he doesn't, you know, talk about, you know, cutting social security or things like that, because that's really -- that's not an agenda we can support. >> mr. hoffa you want the president to fight. he's the president, he's not a monarch. he's not a king. he can't say that this must happen. he's got to work with congress. half of which is controlled by republicans who have made it clear they don't want him to have a success, even if it means helping the american people. are you saying you want the president to fight and if he fails in that fight to go down fighting? >> i think he has to draw a line in the sand. he's got to sit down and say look it. go to the american people. there's going to be election in

'12. the answer is maybe we wipe these people out. the answer is going to be sim im. if you want to have your social security, medicare, medicaid, if you want to balance on the backs of the poor people, or you waxed rich people to pay, the corporations to pay, that's not complicated. he's got to draw that line in the sand. but to constantly keep backing up and backing up, we don't want him to do that. we want him to fight and i think we will rally behind him. i think the president has also to rally his base. come back to labor, come back to, you know, when he was out there talking to the farmers. i had to laugh at that. do you think the farmers are going to vote for him? i mean, i don't think so. he's standing in that corn field, i love the president, but, i don't know what he's thinking out there. he's not going to get any votes out there. i guess it was good television. but i don't see it. you know the answer is, you know, he's going to be right to come back to detroit. he should be going to wisconsin, where we have, you know, 100,000 people at madison, where we're rallying out there, and we're recalling senators, you know, he should be getting -- he should be in ohio, where we're going to

recall sp-5. >> what's sb-5? >> what is it? this is the bill that kasich put in there that took away public bargaining, collective bargaining for public employees. including cops, including firemen, and teachers, and everybody else. i want him to fight. i don't want him to back up anymore. you know what, stare these people down. i think we can beat them. you know what, maybe we've got to go to 12, take them on. we're either going to win or lose. you can't keep backing up. and there's no appeasing these people. there's no middle ground. he learned that. he learned that there's no middle ground. he says, he'll give me a billion in revenue or whatever and i'll do -- there's no middle ground. they've all signed that thing. they don't want to negotiate. they say, our way or the highway. and he's got to say, okay. that's the way it is. then that's my way, too. >> you're saying that the president may be stymied on policies to create more jobs but that he can still do more on the bully pulpit? >> i think he's got a job on this thing. he's got to go to the american

people and say, hey, look it, this is not complicated. we know how to settle this. we go back to bill clinton. bill clinton balanced the budget. i never thought anybody would do that, but he did. so if he did it, why can't we do that again? and obviously there are people that want to bring him down. they want him to fail. they will crash the economy to take -- they will actually crash the economy, i believe that. they want to do that. they will threaten default. they will threaten the faa bill. they will do anything to make sure he fails and make him look bad. and i think that he's got to realize that. he's got to put a line in the sand and say, hey, if there's got to be a battle, let's do it. because you just can't keep backing up. >> so will your support for the president and for democratic candidates in 2012 be contingent on how he performs in the coming months? in other words, if i'm the president, what i say to you is i need your help shrinking the republican numbers in congress, so that it's not about rhetoric as jonathan said, it's about getting things through the congress. are you prepared to go all-out for democratic candidates and the president in 2012, regardless of what he says

rhetorically in the next few months? or does he have to cross a bar for you and prove a certain kind of mettle to you? >> it seems to me the president would want to make sure our space on board. there are those people that don't like him, obviously, out there. the tea party people, the people who signed the no tax increase and he's got to come back to our base and obviously dismantling the new deal is not part of this program. and he's got to, you know, draw a line in the sand. obviously we're going to be supporting him. we want to get rid of these people that are, you know, want to get rid of collective bargaining, that want right to work, that want to do everything destructive to the middle class and to our membership. so we're going to do everything we can. >> i've been listening to you for the past flee or four minutes. you know the president. i find it interesting, i get the impression from you that you think part of him is just not -- >> not -- you talk to members of congress. they say we want him to stand up. we want him to fight these guys. he's eminently reasonable. and the president thinks, you know, that, you know, he's a very smart man.

and he thinks if i'm reasonable, but he's dealing with unreasonable people that don't want to deal. you know, it's like you and i can get together and we'll find a middle ground. i'll say -- you'll say two, i'll say four and we'll pick three. it doesn't work that way. they don't want to work with him. they want to crash him. >> jim hoffa, very excited about both the lions and the tigers. thanks very much for joining us. coming up next, delaware governor jack marco on his state's plan to weather the storm. he'll join us next. you name it.

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folks are free to do what they want to do, so they can stay. we can very aggressively order tourists off and that's happened along all of our coastal counties. but in terms of residents, you're going to be able to read stories tomorrow of people who have stayed and they're waiting for the wind to hit and the rain to hit. but, again, we have to pull our folks, our emergency personnel and rescue personnel, back inside. as the storm comes. and so that really does leave a person who chooses to stay at the mercy of themselves and the storm and that's the real danger. >> as it's projected now, this is not just going to be a sure incident. this is going to be statewide incident. from a flooding perspective, this could be a 100-year event. so people should not -- should not take this lightly. now, you know, i can't control

more than any other human being can control the track of the storm. and so we have to prepare for the worst. we are clearly slowly working our way through east coast governors, and we've got governor jack markell from delaware coming up. good morning. wrightsville, north carolina. hurricane may not be there yet but the surf's coming back. i'm mike barnicle. still with us jonathan canehart, michael crowley joining us now, columnist for the new york times. charles, how are you? >> i'm well. how are you? >> get your umbrella and everything? you're all set? >> i'm a louisiana boy. this -- >> this is nothing to you. >> so why we brace for hurricane irene here in the upper east coast, a category 2 storm is now heading for coastal north carolina. where it's expected to hit later tonight. the national weather service says that heightened waves and swells up to nine feet high are starting to strike the area. the governors of at least seven states have declared states of emergency. let's go to bill karins right

now for the latest on hurricane irene. bill? >> mike, i think the big thing i want to tell people today is that every hurricane is different. katrina was different than andrew, and andrew was different than camille, and every hurricane has its own legacy. the results could either be pounding surf, storm surge that goes extreme far inland. you could get winds that just tear apart buildings. or you could deal with flooding rains like floyd did in the carolinas. this is going to be more of a flied-type scenario than katrina or andrew or camille, because we don't have the really, really intense winds. but this storm is heading into an area that hasn't seen a bringing hurricane since the '50s, in new england. so this storm is huge. it's immense. it's going to drop a ton of rain. it's going to knock down a lot of trees. let me kind of break it down for you. the heavy rains are just off the south carolina and north carolina coasts. you literally only have about 12 hours, maybe ten hours left in wilmington to make your final preps, along with our friends in the marines in camp lejeune in coastal north carolina, including emerald isle, okracoke

island, kitty hawk, and kill devil hills area of neern north carolina. now, as far as the warnings go, this means hurricane conditions within 36 hours. that's north carolina, the area in red through virginia beach, norfolk, all the way through the delaware coastline and all of new jersey. now we have a hurricane watch from new york city, long island, coastal connecticut, into boston. that means hurricane conditions are possible. but not definite. i'm here to tell you those will probably be switched to warnings later on today. here's the latest forecast from the hurricane center. the path goes across the outer banks, as we go throughout your saturday, late morning, into the afternoon. so the worst damage from the storm, as far as storm surge and winds, will occur as we go through saturday morning, in eastern north carolina into the early afternoon. the worst damage in areas of virginia and maryland and delaware will be done overnight saturday night into sunday. the worst damage on the jersey shore will be sunday morning, and the worst damage on long island will be as we approach the noon hour, and also the same goes for connecticut, and there

in rhode island. so let me show you one -- we've been showing these little squiggly lines. these are my best computer models. all the pictures of the outer banks, you're definitely getting hit. we're not sure if the landfall is going to go inland over jersey or if it's going to go over long island. even possibility of heading to rhode island. there's still a little wiggle room as we go to new england. regardless, the storm is so large that everyone's going to get tropical storm force winds. let me break down the timing of the winds. the orange, tropical storm force winds, the red hurricane-force winds. virginia beach as early as 5:00 a.m. the tropical storm force winds arrive stomp morning. notice the red, the hurricane force winds over the top of eastern north carolina as we go throughout 3:00 saturday afternoon. that's when the worst of it will be norfolk to virginia beach down to the hatteras area. even new york city could see tropical storm force winds arriving around 10:00 p.m. saturday. new jersey coastline, you do not have any prep time on sunday. all your preps need to be done

in new jersey as we go throughout today and the first half of tomorrow. a lot of people have been wondering what happens when the storm gets up to long island for the landfall in new york city. this is what it looks like on the map. right around 8:00 a.m. that storm will be right alone the jersey shore. that's when the worst of the storm surge and the winds will be arriving in new york city and long island. all through the five boroughs and even coastal connecticut. by the time we get to sunday night, this storm is gone, barnicle. it's going to be up there by boston. should weak ton a tropical storm by that time and mostly just a wind event for the berkshires up down the time line for you of any specific questions. you can e-mail mike barnicle. >> sunday sox game will be rained out? >> yes, your baseball game, they'll have to make that one up. all right, bill, thanks very much. democratic governor of delaware, jack markell, governor, i don't know whether you could see on the monitor, but it appeared from looking at the monitor, that the heaviest winds and the heaviest rains are going to hit rehoboth beach and bethany beach. where do you stand in terms of

preparation, and is there anything left to be done? or that you can do? >> well, i did not see the monitor. but i heard the report. i thought it was a great report. i thought the most important part of bill's report was to say that the preparation really has to be today. and early tomorrow. and if people are waiting any longer than that, it's a big mistake. so, yesterday we issued a state of emergency, mandatory evacuation for visitors, likely to be extended in a few hours to a mandatory evacuation for everybody in those coastal areas. >> you know, governor, speaking of wilmington, i think most americans are concerned with, is the vice president's house going to be okay? we don't want any shingles being blown off the roof of his house in wilmington. but seriously, we talked to governor perdue earlier, north carolina, and the issue of state budget constraints, delaware, i'm sure, is no different than almost every other state in the union. you know, there's unemployment everywhere. people are in economic

difficulty, tax revenues are down state by state. where do you go to get the money to handle all the emergency preparation that has to be done for this? >> well, we'll deal with the money. obviously it's not something we're too excited about. i appreciate yesterday, secretary napolitano reached out. we're going to have a couple people from fema who are here to help us reach out to the federal government for the financial support. but my concern right now is less about the money. we, you know, once a life is lost, you can't unlose it. and so we've got to make sure that people are safe, that people are getting away. and taking care of themselves. we'll deal with the money, we'll deal with the cleanup. right now we've got to make sure people are safe. >> and what are -- in terms of like tourists as opposed to like residents of the beach areas, the evacuation, i assume, is already taking place. how many people are we talking about? any idea how many people we're talking about? >> well, many, many, many tens of thousands for sure. and so the order yesterday was

specifically for visitors. we love visitors in delaware. we have great beaches. but now is not the time for them to be there. and so if you are listening and you're a visitor to the delaware beaches, now is the time to go home. if you're a resident of the coastal area, please continue to pay attention to the news, because it's quite likely within a few hours we're going to extend the mandatory evacuation to you, as well. >> you know, i'm about to drive through delaware later today on my way to washington, d.c. can you give me a sense, is delaware that much different than most other states? what's the unemployment rate right now in delaware? >> in delaware is 8.1%. it's better than the national average. but it's not nearly good enough. that's why we wake up every day focused on creating more jobs and improving the economic climate here. and certainly this storm does not help with what's really important tourism industry. but, again, for the moment we've got to keep our focus on keeping people safe. >> what's the biggest economic engine in the delaware economy? what's the biggest employer?

>> well, we have a few. agriculture is huge. dupont, of course, is very big, as well as some other companies like dupont. w.l. gore which makes the goretex material, everything from electronics and clothing supplies. ashland chemical company is here. astrazeneca is based here. we have a huge financial services industry, everybody from jpmorgan chase, bank of america, citigroup, barclays, ing, discover, bank of america, they're all here, and then we've got really exciting new things. we've got a gm plant that was closed. a new company that's making a plug-in hybrid there. we expect a new fuel cell company to be building a factory in newark and we have a big refinery that was closed and is just reopened. but, of course, as in most places, it's really small businesses, the primary economic engine for us. >> and small business, as in a lot of other states? have they been hurt, obviously, by the economic downturn? >> oh, it's been a very difficult time for businesses

throughout the country, including right here in delaware. and so what we do is we really try to focus and put ourselves into the shoes of the people who create jobs and focus in on the things that they care most about. the schools, workforce, reasonable taxes, the like. >> as you go around the state, in your role as governor, who are people most angry at? >> well, i think there's a general frustration. i think everybody -- what we try to do in delaware is really come together across party lines, and do what makes sense for the people. and so i do a lot of town hall meetings, and i think that probably one of the most important things that governors can do is be willing to walk into the lion's den, right where people are most frustrated and talk to them about hear their concerns. i think what people are looking for these days in their elected leaders is three things. one they want people who understand what they're going through. two they want people who have a plan for solving their problems.

and three, they want people who are going to fight for them. and i think that's really what they're looking for from their elected officials overall. i think, obviously, there's frustration coming out of washington. but what we've got to do is we've got to control what we can control. and there's plenty of that right here at home. >> governor markell, we want to thank you for joining us. good luck over the next few days to you, and the residents of delaware, and stay safe. you won't be able to stay dry. >> thank you so much. >> stay safe. governor jack markell. >> thanks a lot, appreciate it. >> of delaware. charles, you know the next question, who are people most angry at? we were talking about it earlier today. there is a lot of, i don't know whether you'd go so far as to call it anger, but a lot of wondering, you know, where are we going? what's going to happen to my kids? they're not going to be better off than i am in this country. >> right. if you look at the polls it's very clear that just the public overall is most angry at republicans.

they're most dissatisfied with their performance. you have to take that with a grain of salt, because very often tea party respondents to polls will say they're upset with the republican party, though they will vote republican party every time. so, you take that with a grain of salt. but if you look at the polls, that's how it breaks out. democrats are a little bit better. even though the president's number is just negatives are higher than they have ever been. he is still like twice as well liked as democrats or republicans overall. >> is that because people personally like him, that they feel they trust him, they just have a high regard for him? even though they don't like where the country is or maybe even like some of the things he's done? >> well, that's a great question. because that's -- pew has a poll out that came out yesterday late -- >> late yesterday. >> and it has a real glimmer of

hope for obama, because what it shows is that on the things that you cannot really change, he does extremely well. he does extremely well on intelligence, that you're articulate. that you stand up for what you believe in. a lot of progressives think he doesn't do that. but, people overall think he stands up for what he believes in. those kind of things that you cannot change he does extremely well in. the things that you think a politician would be able to change is what he falls down, you're not very effective. you're not fighting hard enough. those sorts of things. those are things that you can turn around. so he has an opportunity in those numbers to, you know, move into the election season and change those things. >> i don't know about that. i don't know that i -- i understand where you're coming, but i don't know whether i buy into the whole thing. michael, what i find in my brief exposure, you know, to primary states, you've had much more

exposure, is that people talk to you about how they like the president. they think he's a nice guy. they think he's a great father. but the level of disappointment among his supporters is such that i don't know how he retrieves that. >> right. right. well, i mean, i do think it's true that based on the unemployment and economic situation we have now, you might have projected his approval numbers to be lower. and i do think that, for instance, a lot of americans thought that bill clinton wasn't ethical, wasn't honest, slick willie. a lot of americans came to believe that george bush was lying to them. that there was something fundamentally corrupt in his administration. you don't really get that with obama. it's more ideological. the people who complain about him on the right think he's a radical socialist. people on the left think he's not fighting hard enough. you saw hoffa saying a few minutes ago. but, so, i do think that there is hope. that if things pick up a little bit, he kind of has the conditions there for a comeback. because i think his character is still intact. but i do think that the anger

that you talked about in the beginning is very real and it does transcend partisanship to some degree. justifiably a lot of americans think the people at the top are doing okay. their stock portfolio is down a little bit. but, you know, wealthy members of congress, lobbyists, bankers on wall street, these people all know each other, they socialize with each other, they do favors for each other, and i think americans understand that's what's going on. they don't see that changing and don't see those people sharing the pain that they feel. i think that's a justifiable source of anger beyond partisanship. >> beyond partisanship but not beyond racial lines. i mean there's a racial component there that, i mean, if you look at his approval rating among blacks, it has hardly moved. >> hmm. >> if you look at his approval ratings among hispanics, it has moved down slightly, but still above half. among whites, we're down -- >> i didn't mean obama specifically there. i just meant a feeling about the elite in the country. >> okay. >> all right coming up we're going to talk to actor and best-selling author bill hopper about his new book about the wealth cure.

plus can the oracle of omaha save america's biggest bank? warren buffett's $5 billion ahead in business before the bell. and up next, former time police chief john timoney. what a good-looking guy he is. a handsome man. you're watching "morning joe." brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back.

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new yorkers should prepare themselves by stocking up on some basic supplies, and making what's called a go-bag. a bag that you take with you at a moment's notice if you have to leave your home, that should include things like drinking water, a first aid kit, a flash light, any important medications that you take.

essential documents such as passports, other forms of i.d. and an extra set of car keys and house keys. >> that was myer bloomberg. right there you're looking at a picture of various points along the east coast from new jersey down to north carolina. as the hurricane makes its way slowly up the east coast. mayor bloomberg was just talking about emergency preparations and having a go-bag. former deputy commissioner of the new york city police department john timoney is with us from miami, florida. he had a go-bag when he served under commissioner bratton, and he left and went to philadelphia, where he became police commissioner in philadelphia, on to miami. where you became police commissioner. and john, in a few days, very few days, here in manhattan, and across the country, people are going to be looking at the tenth anniversary of september 11th, and i know that you were on a panel in mid town manhattan,

with former commissioner bratton, and present commissioner ray kelly, and yourself, and a couple of other people, to talk about the impact that september 11th had on law enforcement, on how terrorism watches have been beefed up within various big city police departments. what is that panel going to do? what are you going to be talking about? >> well, i think we're going to take a look back over the last decade. see what we've done right. obviously, and then also see what may have been wrong or could be improved. you know, i said back in 2008, with the election of 2008 that maybe it was time to take a look back, for example, at how homeland security is constructed. you know, that was constructed by tom ridge, did a good job under tough conditions. but it got the models, you want going forward. it seems like a behemoth of an

organization, there's a better way of organizing it. so there are a whole host of questions. the other part is, you know, in 2001, and certainly 2002, it was clear to me that part of the problem going forward would be complacency. how do you maintain your alertness? how do you maintain the hyperready? now new york, because it's been the target, at least two or three times, struck twice, there's no problem with remaining alert in new york. but other cities, because they haven't been hit and the further you are from 9/11, i think the more complacent. that really the big enemy. so how do you keep your guard up while at the same time taking care of regular police business? it's a difficult situation. but there are a whole host of questions that need to be dealt with in a passive fashion ten years after 9/11. >> charles from "the new york times" is here. >> hi, john. you said you were going to also

look at things you may have done wrong. could you kind of enumerate some of those things that have not gone as well, particularly in light of the ap investigation about possible civil liberties that may have been kind of trampled, for lack of a better word? >> yeah, i mean, listen, you always have the institutional tensions. you know, his primary responsibility is to make sure that new york city remains safe. you know, there were some people in the civil rights community that think the nyc-pd may have gone too far. ray kelly's got an awesome responsibility. new york city was hit, in 1993, again in 2001, and there have been at least three or four legitimate plots that have been thwarted by the nypd and so he's got to keep his guard up. i don't see, really, any mistakes there. what i'm talking about as far as

mistakes, how the system is set up to deal with homeland security or a whole host of others. let me give you one example. you know, after 9/11 we had the 9/11 commission. and coming under the 9/11 commission was the law that established the dni, the director of national intelligence. everybody agreed there had been a huge intelligence failure. this is going to cure it. it's about an 18-page law. the first 16 pages are perfect. it said everything that needs to be done. then on page 17 and 18 it said disregard the first 16 pages, that the authorities of the cia, the authority of the fbi director remains in place. and so you have dni set up, which was set up as a model to go through agencies, that my sense is is not quite as powerful as it should be. >> michael crowley? >> i have a question that's not on this homeland security issue but more on conventional policing. seems to me one of the great mysteries of this recession has been that we have not seen a big spike in urban crime in the

great american cities, new york in particular. >> correct. >> and it's a real mystery. and i just wonder what your thoughts are on why that hasn't happened. it seems like it would have been entirely predictable and unsurprising. what's going on? have we just kind of cracked some sort of a code? or have the cities fundamentally changed? >> well, i think it's a few things. one, it's not surprising. if you look at the great depression. there were no skyrocketing crime rates, number one. number two, a lot of the stuff coming out of the '60s, a lot of great things, a lot of great reforms came out of the '60s as far as social reforms and civil rights. also coming out of the '60s was this, if you will, blame culture on crime. the underlying causes of crime. that somehow it was as a result of poverty and poor housing, racism, a whole host of things. and that's not necessarily true. and i think what you've seen over the last three and four years, as the economy has gone into the tank, is that the crime rates have remained relatively stable, and in some cases, have gone down. and you look at a place like new york, where every year after year for the last 15, 18 years,

crime has continued to decline. >> hey, chief, you're in miami now. >> yeah. >> it strikes me, i wonder if it strikes you or anybody else as you're sitting around the table, that the recollection of september 11th, and thinking about september 11th, is quite vivid, obviously, when you're in new york city. and it's fairly vivid, as well, when you're in washington, d.c. or even boston. where the planes left from. >> yes. >> and then you go out in the country, and it's like it might as well have happened 30, 40 years ago. it's just not on people's screens. >> you know, mike, back in 2001, in october or november of that year, i happened to be out in l.a., and to compare downtown manhattan, the security surrounding the buildings, to l.a. back then, is like two different countries. by the way, the same in other cities. clearly new york was impacted, as was washington. but that impact isn't -- isn't felt in other cities the further

away you are, the less you're impacted. and you can see it by the police presence, by the number of private security guards and things of that nature. and so you're absolutely right. which is back to my original point, the whole idea of complacency, if you haven't been struck, it's hard enough to get your attention. but if you haven't been struck, and then ten years has elapsed, that's the real difficult for us in law enforcement. >> in miami, what's the story on the hurricane down there? has it struck by? >> well, michael, we dodged a bullet. but i feel bad for the folks up north. i lived in philadelphia when floyd hit, and we had floods in southwest philadelphia, along the schuylkill rifle, i'm not exaggerating, i was out in a boat. there were ten feet, above cars as we were going out rescuing people. that's a problem. philadelphia, i was there last week, it rained every day. it's the wettest august in history for philadelphia. and august ain't over yet. it's right around the corner. similarly, in 1991, when

hurricane bob hit new york city, the -- all along the brooklyn coastline, the seawalls collapsed. boats that weren't tethered wound up going 5, 10, 15 blocks inland, and so that's the -- there will be huge problems. this is going to be similar for hurricane floyd for philadelphia and the way bob affected new york city back in 1991. >> coming from ireland, you're used to the rain, but not hurricanes, right? >> exactly. yeah. it's kind of a steady rain. >> yeah. >> a moist rain. >> john timoney, thanks very much, chief. we appreciate it. >> thanks, michael. >> coming up, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel takes us on a tour inside moammar gadhafi's compound. plus, business before the bell with cnbc's simon hobbs when "morning joe" returns. [ male announcer ] want a better way to track what you spend?

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looking at i guess the sun is coming up over the white house in washington, d.c. awaiting, like everybody else, hurricane irene to come storming ashore. but now on to libya. nato forces in libya are now turning their attention to the

region around moammar gadhafi's hometown of sirte, launching new air strikes targeting government loyalists in the region. there's also new word gadhafi's troops are bombarding the capital's airport today. it comes as a new "wall street journal" report suggests rebels received significant assistance from an unlikely source. someone within moammar gadhafi's inner circle. the "journal" profiles a senior officer in gadhafi's personal security force whom the paper calls, quote, a double agent in the gadhafi camp. now the report also says that the officer would issue arrest orders for suspected rebels by day, and then meet secretly with opposition members at night. and while the lib ran leader remains in hiding, we are getting an inside look at the home he left behind. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is in tripoli, where he took a tour of gadhafi's former compound. >> reporter: hundreds of rebels battled gadhafi loyalists, as rebels advanced with all the fire power they had.

took away their leader and arrested a suspected mercenary. nearby, for the first time, we were able to visit deep inside gadhafi's compound. it was from this balcony that gadhafi used to come to address large, cheering crowds. what a different perspective he'd have today. it's ransacked. but hints survive of how he lived and how his glory faded. this is one of gadhafi's en-suit bathrooms. jacuzzi tub. obviously the lights are out. and in here is the bedroom. the ceiling has come down but under his debris was gadny's bed. and 20 feet below, an extensive network of bunkers. people here say that gadhafi used these tunnels to move across the city, and that he may have even used them to escape during the assault. there's a full command and control center here. these are lists of media organizations. cnn. abu dhabi.

there is an exit here. a small little porthole that leads to the outside. the network of tunnels extends for miles. our colleague stephanie gosk saw more. >> there's electricity. there are telephones. it's even wide enough for golf carts that gadhafi has used to ride around all the time. not clear if he used this one. but he won't be using it again any time soon. these stairs lead up from the tunnels. must have been somewhere back up into gadhafi's house. but we can see just how paranoid he was as this indirection was going on around his country. clearly they sealed it off for security. >> reporter: the tunnels may have helped gadhafi escape. but now, with a bounty on his head, it seems every rebel in libya is looking for him. >> that was richard engel reporting from tripoli. for the second time in three years, billionaire warren buffett is offering a helping hand to the banking industry. the headline in today's "wall

street journal" reads "buffett bets $5 billion on bank of america." the news giving a big boost to b of a shares which rallied more than 9% by the closing bell. but it wasn't the same for the broader markets. the dow plunging 170 points, or 1.5%. the s&p 500, and nasdaq also closing lower. for more let's get a check on business before the bell with cnbc's simon hobbs live at the new york stock exchange. hey, simon. >> good morning, jonathan. yeah, we had a lot of concerns about what's happening with europe yesterday towards the end and that's why we came down like we did. but we've just had the second quarter revision on gdp come out, and the economy grew more slowly in the second quarter of the year than we -- than was initially estimated. we thought it was a 1.3 annual pace. in fact it was a pace of just 1%. that's no great surprise. wall street was expecting that but it does high light the fact that we may be going into recession. and economists note that in nine

of the past eleven recessions, since world war ii, we've had a 1% growth rate before we slid back down. so all attention, very importantly, are now focused on 10:00 eastern, when ben bernanke, in jackson hole, wyoming, will give his assessment of the economy and lay out the policy prescriptions, what they might do if the economy does worsen. and, of course, we've had this telegraph really over the last few weeks that the market is trying to factor in what it thinks it's going to get. interestingly this morning, john hilton, fed watcher writing for "the wall street journal," notes that you may find that a frustrated fed chairman uses the opportunity to say that the politicians aren't making his job any easier and that really on the fiscal side it's time for capitol hill to act. so watch potentially for that very strong message to come out, as well, jonathan, at 10:00 this morning. >> simon, it's mike barnicle. talking about past recessions, is this recession maybe a bit different because of the specter of these toppling dominoes called the european economy?

>> yes, it is very different. and, indeed, within the united states, of course, you've also got an argument that it may be structural. you've got big one-time things that are happening, be that the housing market, and a massive bubble there. or alternatively changing employment requirements, and a globalization pressure. so, there is an argument that this time around, you can't stimulate and get the reaction from the economy, be that monetary policy or fiscal policy, that you would normally have. and that's why we're double dipping. it is different. very different this time round. that's the problem for policymakers. that's why you'll have more extraordinary things coming out. or the promise of more extraordinary things from ben bernanke today. >> simon hobbs. thanks very much, simon. we're all waiting on bernanke. up next, actor and best-selling author hill harper with his new book. we're going to be back in a minute. [ female announcer ] what if your natural beauty could be flawless too?

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actually, looking for these items. are they sold separately or do they come with some sort of kit? >> you won't find these on any shelf. this stuff dates back more than 30 years. >> you think he knew the impact he would have on the mafia? that's when they whack somebody they say they made him do a houdini. you think that would make them proud? >> are we actually having this conversation? >> can you explain the difference between dna and rna? is that better? that's scintillating conversation there. >> it would be -- if you showed me in those photographs. you better return this, though, it's a collector's item. i don't want to find that you two pulled a houdini on me. >> that was hill harper in the cbs drama "csi: new york." he's also the author of the new book "the wealth cure: putting

money in its place." and he joins us now from washington, d.c. hill, the book, obviously part of the book is a personal odyssey. it's about more than money. it's about the level of expectation about life. and you talk about life accounts and bank accounts. explain the difference. >> well, you know when i talk about the difference between life accounts and bank accounts i'm talking about this fundamental idea of a paper chase, where we believe that we put the bank account first and we put our bank accounts first, then we can somehow be able to purchase the type of life we want. and it's really about getting back to some more fundamental values. i mean the level of debt addiction we have in this country is astronomical. but it's -- we focused recently on governmental debt. right? yet it's a mirror image of our personal debt that we carry. 1980, we carried as a nation $355 billion in personal debt. fast forward to 2008 that number escalated to $2.6 trillion in

personal debt. so it's not just governmental debt that's the problem. >> but, how do we go about curing that? because, i mean, you're no different than anyone else. you've stood in line in stores and coffee shops, and you see younger people, and many people who are older than 40, 45 years of age, they buy things thinking almost as if it doesn't cost anything because they swipe the card. >> right. >> no money exchanges hands. >> exactly. >> it's like crazy. >> it is. it is. it is. but that's the mind-set we're in. and this is where the shift comes, the mind-set we have. is that if we can purchase these external things, they will somehow fill some type of void. if we can figure out a way to buy happiness, then we can be happy. or keep up with the joneses,ate vaet. it's the hyperconsumerism. but it's also a justification of allowing people, that if i can take your money, or provide the least amount of service, or charge the most for it, that's

okay, as well. so it's this parallel path of people, number one, overspending, hyperconsumerism, and number two, getting less value for what they spend things on. >> charles has a question for you. >> hi, hill. >> hey, charles. >> first i want to take this moment to put up there, now three young black men on tv at one time. the world might explode. but, beyond that, i mean, what we have, particularly coming out of this recession, is the people are hurting because they had most of their wealth built into their houses, and the housing market itself has crumbled. >> yes. >> and so people are now trying to dig out of that, and so you see some good signs coming out of that, which is that savings rates are up, people are -- delinquency rates involving credit are going down. so people are doing some of the right things, but how do people who had been, you know, kind of teetering on doing the right thing, how do you then come out

of this recession in the right way, and how do you solve the problem when you're under water in your mortgage, and that is where your wealth was? >> well, what i talk about in "the wealth cure" is using the same type of methodology that physicians would use for a medical cure to solve our financial ills. so we first, you know, we lay it out. we first start with the diagnosis. everyone has individual issues, and individual problems. some people are carrying credit card debt. some people, you know, they're overspending in terms of leasing a car. real estate issues, et cetera. we have to diagnose the problem first. then we go to a treatment plan or a treatment option. but then a lot of us can come up with what our problem is, and come up with a plan. but most of us have trouble with compliance and maintenance. those are the next two steps, maintaining, and complying, and then ultimately hopefully, thriving and surviving. part of that idea or that analogy came out of the fact that as i was writing this book about money and finance i was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. and i looked at the way the doctors were treating me and i said, you know, if the doctors

can attempt to cure an ill in this space, could i use their same methodology for solving people's financial ills? >> hill, it's jonathan capehart. real fast, we don't have a whole lot of time. you said the difference between smart money and dumb money. what's dumb money? >> when your head hits the pillow and you've spent it on something, or you have it, it's worth less when you make up the next morning. credit card spending on something like technology is the dumbest money you can spend because technology is depreciating in value continuously and you're spending more because you're paying an interest rate on that. smart money is the exact reverse, it's worth at least the same or more when you wake up the next morning. >> that's like me. i'm worth less every morning. >> i'm thinking the same thing. >> hill harper, thanks very much. we appreciate you joining us. the book is, "the wealth cure: putting money in its place." up next, punk willie, his weekend review. he's not even here. going to review the week for us. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] members of the american postal workers union

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willie's not here today. but he left us his week in review. >> i wouldn't necessarily trust any of my opponents right now. >> at number three, republican

on republican crime. >> could you ever imagine running as a running mate to someone like mitt romney? >> jon huntsman laughed off mitt romney this week while rick perry surpassed romney in the polls. >> have you read my book "fed up"? get a copy of it. >> the gop's fantasy candidate jeb bush offered the field some coaching from the sidelines. >> you have to defend a position. you can't just be against the president. >> and governor "w" finally got up with sarah palin's will she, won't she routine? >> it's a sign of enormous thin skin that if we speculate about her she gets upset. and i suspect if we didn't speculate she'd be upset. >> the biggest benefit from all this infighting, candidate buddy roemer who quietly keeps packing them in. >> at number two, summer games.

while president obama golfed and biked his way around martha's vineyard this week, he dispatched his vice president to the remote reaches of mongolia. to project american power. joe biden sent a strong message to the world. or at least to this mongolian wrestler and to these mongolian camels, and to this mongolian horse, and to a handful of mongolian archers. >> mongolia has captured the imagination of the world. >> the number one story of the week. >> today we live in freedom. >> as history unfolded this week in tripoli, the earth unfolded briefly outside washington. >> why is everything shaking? >> i'm in a dream. the whole thing moved, really. yes.

>> the east coast shook, and the west coast snobbed on the adorable little 5.8 magnitude tremor. >> the east coast appears to be for reasons unknown in a bit of a freakout mode. >> with an earthquake and a hurricane hitting the northeast this week, many start to wonder what other freakish event would round out the rule of three. >> heads exploding all over washington. >> now that's what i thought it was going to be. up next, what if anything did we learn today? [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back.

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well, as usual it's time for that incredibly important segment, what have we learned today? we start with our friend colonel jackson. what have we learned today? >> well, i learned that this show starts at 6:00 in the morning. in africa, people killed at the u.n. compound down there. wait for it. i just discovered this show starts at 6:00 in the morning. >> jonathan told me that this is cool. i wa