>> i'm going to save my time because i think that you ought to share what you learned about the dnc. >> i learned something about nancy grace, but i'm not going to repeat it on tv. >> what? wait. come on. kill joy. >> i don't think you do that in public. but i also learned most importantly steve jobs bio coming out by walter issac son. i can't wait. and stick around, because chuck todd straight ahead with the daily rundown. the great debate. team bm grap he wills with what to sell and how to sell it new jobs plan. do they go big and pick a fight with house republicans or do they go more tactical and pass what they can? the perry surge. is the the texas governor the

flavor of the month or is he pierce through in a way that will make mitt romney change his battle plan. eight days up the big nbc politico debate. we'll break it down with one of the moderators. and irene may have disappeared, but the death tolle continues to rise. areas of the catskills and new england devastated by georged rivers, widespread flooding, steps of up tos simps towns simt off. it's tuesday, august 30th, 2011. all that plus more from former vice president dick cheney speaking out again live this morning as he picked a fight with president bush. let's go right to my first read of the morning. we'll start with jobs. will the president go big on his jobs plan as the white house finalizes the plan ahead of next week's speech, the west which i think wing is guyed over how big

to go. the president teased the speech yesterday, but offered few details. >> next week i will be laying out a series of steps that congress can take immediately to put more money in the pockets of working families to make it easier for small businesses to hire people, to put construction crews to work, these are proposaling that everybody can get behind no matter what your political affiliation might be. >> the president's teasing by using the phrase that congress can take immediately that it's going to be a series of tactical steps. we've heard about tax credits for hiring unemployed, hiring new woerks. perhaps some ways of dealing with, for instance, refinancing on home mortgages trying to make a dent a little bit in the problem with the housing market.

but again, inside the west wing, a little bit of a divide because the question is the tactical attemptses in the past frankly 18 months, while they've gotten some legislative victory, it hasn't translated in to policy success, so the question is if it hasn't traps lated in to policy success, how is it going to translate into political success. the big unknown. are republicans going to come back with the same governing attitude they had over the last eight months or will they be reading the polls and be in mower of a mood to compromise? republicans on the so-called super committee, the joints committee for deficit reduction, hold their first meeting in washington today. we'll see what they do. it was interesting to see a member saying this is the path forward for how congress can deal with big decisions. then why do we have congress.

two years ago, the president said afghanistan was a war of necessity. today he's skipping the convention heading instead to head to minneapolis to address the american legion annual conference. he'll be in a split screen with mitt romney who addresses the vfw just ahead of obama's speech. yesterday was rick perry emphasizing his own military service and taking on the president's foreign policy. >> i do not believe that america should fall subject to a foreign policy of military adventurism. we should only risk shedding american blood and sending american pressure when our vital interests are threatened. we cannot concede the moral authority of our nation to multilateral debating societies. and when our interests are threatened, american soldiers should be led by american commanders. >> you as you you you heard there, some of those statements

a little bit in conflict. is he an enter svennist? more of what president bush and practice what president obama has been, or is he not. he sounded a lot like candidate bush in '99, a little more like candidate obama in '07, and as somebody pointed out this morning, he sounds like everybody who runs for president when it comes to military intervention and not what they actually do when they get into office. the administration is sending scott goold. he called it an insult of the highest magnitude, but according to a senior official, the administration offered a few other higher profile speakers that were all rejected by the vfw. and vice president dick cheney's memoir hits store shelves today. downloads on your ipad, as well. the book already has its critics, among them colin

powell. on the "today" show this morning, matt lauer asked cheney why some call him the most controversial vice president in history. >> do you think it's all political or do you think there's something about your personality, your demeanor, that inspires animosity in your critics? >> you left out darth vader. that's been included. >> i figured that had been said a lot. >> it's varied. when i was secretary of defense, i got rave notices and high ratings. by the end of my time as vice president, i was down pretty low. but partly that had to come with policy and i was a big advocate of pursuing controversial policies in order to keep the country safe and our critics obviously extracted hair pound their pound of flesh for that. >> tough word s about condi ric approximately in that dateline special. turning now to the

devastation over irene. in vermont the waters are finally receding after irene triggered some of the most devastating flooding in state's history, inundating community, killing at least three. the vermont governor joins me by phone. sounds like a lot -- better news this morning because of the news about the floodwaters receding. what else you can tell us? >> we've got a long slough ahead. irene whacked us hard. and we are most devastated by those who perished in the floods. we're still looking for a fourth. it's a tragic story of a father and son who were going this to make sure that the water supply was all right and the father's body we've found and we're looking for the son. we've had huge loss of property, houses, a cemetery wash away,

our infrastructure roads and bridges. what we're trying to do right now is to get to the communities that have been isolated by roads that have been washed out to get them supplies and the attention take they need. so we're up to our ears in alley ghat tors. we're thrilled the waters have gone down, but we got chaked hard. >> what do you need now, is it helicopters? that what is it that you've asked for and are waiting. >> the federal government gets an a plus from this governor for their response. i spoke with the president last night. he's actively engaged. president obama has just been an extraordinary partner to us. we have the director of fema flying in here today and they're doing everything they know how to do. our challenge is that we have small villages accessed by small roads and we have a huge amount of infrastructure to rebuild. and that doesn't happen in 24 hour. so they are getting us additional supplies and we'll

get into those communities with food and water and the supplies that are needed temporarily. we're having problems getting our electric power lines back up because it's hard for utility trucks to get into some of the communities where roads have been washed out, so we're getting the help we immediate from the feds and we're very grateful to the 3rd.immediate from the feds and we're very grateful to the 3rd. >> this is something that hasn't been seen in 100 years. when you look hindsight, do you say we have to change -- if we're going to have hurricanes make its way all the way up the atlantic seaboard like this and devastate new england, do you have to change some of the ways that you deal with floodplains in your state? >> i think there's no doubt about it. and i want to remind that you we went through a dress rehearsal four months ago. we had spring flooding. but the point is one of the

governors who firmly believes that climate change is affecting weather patterns in new england. and that we should use these storms as an example of what lies ahead. and we as a nation and certainly as a region will be asking the question as soon as we get through this crisis, how do we better plan how we build our roads, where we build our buildings, where we put our waste water treatment plants so they're not wash manage to brooks and into lame shake cham. we have huge challenges ahead with weather patternses that are clearly a part of the climate change challenge. >> good luck in your clean up and let us know if you need to send any messages to the rest of the public about the help needed up this. >> we appreciate your support. >> all right. thank you, governor. vermont may be seeing the worst of irene, but overall investors were encouraged that the damage along the east coast

wasn't as severe as some feared. andrew ross sorkin is here. first word on wall street, are they giving back some of yesterday's gains? >> you're right, we felt better, but not this morning. we're giving up a little bit. looks like the market will open a little lower. the case shiller index out this morning showing home prices in june rose just a little bit year over year, so that's not a bad thing. interestingly, the other big piece of news, charles evans who runs the fed in chicago today saying that he's pushing for more quantitative easing as a result of that, we saw gold actually go up because people are a little bit worried that there will be more money flowing in to the system. >> qe-3. >> and one other big piece of news. warren buffett turning 81 years old today. >> happy birthday to mr. buffett. now we just need to in-fafuse o economy with support. republicans roll out their

counterproposal to president obama's jobs plan apit's all about picking a fight over regulations. read, epa. the vice president is headed to the clean energy summit in nevada. coincidence? and the white house admits the president's job plan isn't finished yet. up next, what's really going on. inside the west wing debate with former white house chief of staff. and still to come, another sign of rick perry's surging support. does the texas governor have a target on his back? first a look ahead at the president's schedule. he's about to be wheels up. minneapolis/st. paul he'll be speaking to the american legion's am conference.

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this just in, we're showing you live footage of a rescue in patterson, new jersey. floodwaters making it very difficult to do anything on the ground having to do with some rescues in via helicopter. we'll be monitoring that situation both in new jersey and vermont where a lot of roads are impassable by car or truck. and you have to see a lot of things by helicopter. key pieces of the president's job plan are still being debated inside the white house. just days before it's supposed to be unveilunveiled. with me now, former chief of staff for president to ask you question because it's a debate inside the west wing. president obama next week, does he go big, does he go tactical? >> welling i think there's no question he needs to go big. the unemployment rate remains

high.ng i think there's no question he needs to go big. the unemployment rate remains high.g i think there's no question he needs to go big. the unemployment rate remains high. i think there's no question he needs to go big. the unemployment rate remains high., i think there's no question he needs to go big. the unemployment rate remains high. i think he has to put some proposals out there that will get the economy rolling in the short term even as he's still working with congress to try to get the long term fiscal picture of the united states in a better place. but right now, we that he had jobs and i think that he's going to come forward after labor day or maybe even on labor day and layout plans to ultima s ts to work in very important ways. he needs to attend to the housing crisis. i think he'll put emphasis on infrastructure and then we're out here in las vegas and i think that he continues the push for clean tech jobs which has been one of the few bright spots in the economy over the last couple years. >> if he goes big, there is some concern that it could just pick a fight with house republicans and make it so nothing can get passed. that's one risk. of course if he goes with just to do whatever he can to get

something passed, might not have the impact that they're hoping for. how do you deal with that dilemma? >> i suppose that is the dilemma, but i think that he needs to put forward i think to the american people what he thinks is right for the country. and i think that's what he'll do. i think you have to kind of break up some of these ideas and think about places where he still has the initiative and has the authority for example in the housing arena where i think if he could get the housing situation, which they've worked on for a couple more years, but still more work to be done, to get them growing depend, again, them in mortgage which is they can afford, which will free up money to spend, this , they hav to pass an faa bill. and i think she the should insi

measures that will put private capital into the system, get some of the private capital that's been sitting on the sidelines engaged. and put people to work. the other places where i think there is bipartisan support in the clean tech arena, the p republicans usually complaint find a tax cut they don't like, so many these targeted tax cuts which i think could help create some employment will be things that can be acceptable. in the short term, what we need is job production right now. >> do you think team obama was surprised at how battered the president's poll ratings have -- how much of a beating the president's taken in the polls over the last couple weeks? do you think they expected to come out of the debate where maybe they have a public while angry at washington a little more sympathetic to the

president? >> i think that this summer was kind of as ugly as washington gets. the president always has to -- he usually takes the hits when things don't work out as he's talked about. i think he tried his mightiest to try to find common ground 34r5urly with t ly particularly with the tea party republicans in the house. that was just unattainable. but right now i think he has toed adjust to the political circumstances in the house, find places where he can move the country forward. if they have to fight, pick the right kind of fights to show he has a different view about where the future lies for the middle class american people and how to put people to work and get their becames growing again. >> the right kind of fights. what's the wrong kind of fight is this what's a fight you don't want to see the president pick? >> i think that as i said, i

want to see him con send straight on making sure that he's attending to this jobless problem that we have in the country and putting forward things that are sensible, that can work that will work in the short run. that build on the private sector and the investments the private sector will make in the economy and i think if he puts forward those kind of ideas right now then i think they will have traction with the american public an put pressure on the republicans in the congress to come along in some of these areas. the chairman just before the august recess produced a bill on surface transportation that would have caused 500,000 people to lose their jobs rather than create jobs in building the infrastructure that the congress needs.

he has to take that on and say that's the wrong correctidirect the country. >> but you doyou don't want to the fall talking about deficit reduction at the expense of jobs. >> he has to -- you know, i think the white house has indicated they'll put up their ideas about deficit reduction. we already did a trillion dollars of deficit reduction in the final throes of raising the debt limit. already that's a trillion dollars that's been accounted for. the committee of 12, the super committee, is charged with doing from $1.2 trillion to $1.5 trillion more. the president ought to put his ideas on the table. he'll want to see revenue increases along with further cuts. but i think that if all we do is repeat the conversation and repeat the outcome of the summer, then i think the country

would be ill served as mr. bernanke noted and i think the president's politics would be ill served. >> all right. head of center for american progress at this clean energy sun it there where vice president is biden is supposed to speak later. thank you for getting up early for me. up next, as rick perry gets ready for his first presidential debate, we're looking at some of the game tape studying his debate demeanor. how will perry's presence change the dynamic on stage? a preview of the upcoming nbc politico debate. but first, at 6'4", abraham lincoln was the tallest u.s. president. who was the shortest? tweet me the answer. the first correct answer coming up. my name's jeff.

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one week from tomorrow, governor rec perry makes his debut on the national debate stage. contenders will be in california for their third major showdown. perry may be the new kid in town, but he's had plenty of practice in state elections including this clash with kay bailey hutchison over bailouts. >> governor, you asked for it, too. you were for it before you were against it. >> can i respond to that? >> briefly. >> the west virginia governor and i did write a letter to you. we thought you all were smart enough to understand what we were talking about is stop the spending and cut the taxes. >> governor, that's not what the letter said and, by the way -- >> i wish we had made it clearer for you. >> maybe should you have. i'm sure we just didn't get it. >> that's how we got our economy like it is in texas. >> john harris, so there you

have it, rick perry, in watching -- he didn't have many debates, but in watching them, you do get the sense that he's got a deneck difference tactic already that you can see which is as he gets attacked on details, he just says it's just common accepts, the way we talk in texas. effective in a debate in texas, that style effective on the national stage? >> i'd be surprised if the other accept cann seven candidates allow him to use that kind of tactic. he shot right to the top of the poll, so a very formidable position. i think there will be a lot of focus on him. and definitely some of those also pretty experienced debaters up there some of them trying to trip him up. he's clearly the news of the evening. the first debate with rick perry. so i think there will be a lot of interest in this debate for

priest si precisely that reason. >> it in the '80 campaigns, you would have other candidates do the dirty work for another front run arer in the case of obama verse clinton, it was always chris dod or even john edwards doing the tougher talk against hillary clinton allowing obama to stay clean. mitt romney has been getting everybody, tim pawlenty going after michele bachmann. but is mitt romney going to stay safe shall. >> i don't think it's an effective strategy long term to do the rope and dope, like don't make big headlines, don't make big mistakes. needs to show that he belongs in the command position. i think he'll have to make some of those opportunities himself, not just count on the second tier candidates to do it for him. >> for rick perry, it is quite the first -- it will be a first impression he has shot up in the

polls and that's a who the knotter reason i want to play one more clip from this debate in january of 2010.the knotter reason i want to play one more clip from this debate in january of 2010. >> what about the kid from oklahoma or some other state that wants to come to school in texas. they can't get that same deal. is that fair? >> tell him to move on down to texts as and become a citizen and then they'll be forward it. >> that's your answer? >> yes, absolutely. if they think test as is the greats place of live, they will move here, they will stay long enough to be a citizen of this state and then they can apply for in-state tuition just like everybody else. >> what is the maximum weekly payment they are entitled to? >> about $405. the minimum is about $56. >> the wink there, his mannerisms, you can't help but see george w. bush about in there. at some point does he have to

dial that back? >> we're not in the business of giving stylistic vase to poadvi politicians. i will say that's one of the reasons he's shot to the top. he's a handsome, presentable candidate, he has an informal style. but i think if he doesn't come into the debate also showing that there is depth beneath that style and also an ability to play nationally, not just in texas, not just with the hardcore conservatives who want to hear that but as a national candidate appeal to go moderate republicans, independents, that will raise a lot of questions. and that high poll rating can collapse just like a souffle. we've seen it many teams with candidates who come in with a great wave of speculation and it doesn't have staying power. so that is the big question for rick perry. this is the first big challenge

for him, what's his staying power. >> john harris, now you go into a cubicle and we have our questions, are they in mayonnaise jars. carnac used to keep hemlocked away. >> in a vault. >> we'll see you thought the week. don't forget, the debate is one week from tomorrow wednesday september 7th. 8:00 eastern right here on msnbc. the place for politics. could b? discover aveeno positively radiant tinted moisturizers with scientifically proven soy complex and natural minerals. give you sheer coverage instantly, then go on to even skin tone in four weeks. aveeno tinted moisturizers.

[ vet ] your turn max.

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completely destroyed. there is a big unknown when congress comes back, whether there will be any impact on the tough decision awaiting law pickers on spending cuts and job creations. so joining me now, senator lincoln, let me start with you, president obama spent august beating up on congress a little bit. frankly, it's easier when your approval rating is 40% and you realize let me find somebody who has a worse approval rating than me. and that's congress. we can't see a lot of town hall. almost afraid of the reaction from the public. do you suspect your former colleagues will have a new attitude in september is this. >> i think we all hope so. i think everybody is ready and anxious to see some results. we've got to put people back to

work. working with small businesses to see what it is that they need to really put people back to work. so that's a good thing. i don't know. i suffered through the town halls of 2009 in august. >> and were they helpful or not helpful? you guys came back with sort of a different attitude of trying to just, okay, we got to figure out this health care deal a little bit. >> i was always out there on my own anyway. much of what we talked about in the town halls, i was working on on. but it was helpful, i think. what you did see, though, was that people were frustrated, they were angry, and a lot of what it was, it wasn't just health care, it was the fact that we aren't really being productive. of it the lack of productivity in washington that remains on people's minds and their frustration. >> what i've noticed in going out there when i was on the road for about ten days it this month you was you have a left that's

upset with president obama that he's not been tough enough. you have the tea party that thinks that somehow these guys are compromising still too much. and then the folks in the middle who are upset at everybody wondering where the president's spine is on one hand and wondering what's going on in congress, why complaian't they things done. who are the lawmakers listening to? >> you'll always have two side. the new dynamics of the internet, social media, is the ability of some he is no extremes, more focused people, sending gel issue groups to organize and come out and push hard at a public event, whether a tall hall meeting or any other forum. so you ask is there a relucta e reluctance, yes. >> because it's dominated -- >> the general faction is part of that, about but also the fact that it's so easy and the

inclination is just to come out and drive their message, not necessarily to listen or be part of a discussion. but drive their issue and even embarrass the member of congress. that's not useful. so if you want members to be able to work constructive live, you have to be more thoughtful about the dialogue. >> what do you think of the super committee. dave camp, chairman of the house ways and means, saw it as maybe it's a path forward to how to deal with tough issues. and i'm setting there going the path forward is 12 people, what's the point of over 523 other members of congress. >> i think what people are craving is leadership. and if you're going to pit the leadership in a super committee, that's one thin they think, but you do still needed regular order. i worked hard to get a good committees because i felt like

that's where you could get things solved. >> so the super committee is saying we don't need a budget committ committee. >> congress decided that because they passed the legislation. this is a modest effort to use process to get something specific done. base closure commission an example of that. graham ruddman, sequestration an example of that. varying levels of success. this is another example of congress passing legislation that creates a process that will get an up or down vote for some pretty significant i would hope pretty significant meaningful spending reduction. >> so you're okay with the super committee or just in this instance? >> i don't think it's a problem. and i think it has the potential to get a job done. not all the job because we know

these long term leiciabilities much bigger than the $1.6 trillion in savings they need to come up with, but it has potential. >> as i said, the lack of productivity is what is on people's minds and there's a lot of ways we can create jobs and stimulate the economy. one is to pass a highway bill which is i've years overdue. the other is to pass an faa bill. the other is to pass an education bill. >> there's nothing in the super committee that should prevent that from happening about. >> glot at all. with y but if we were coming our job and getting things done. >> what i feel like i've notified with partisan leadership teams is that the senate leadership become too much like the house where everybody has to stay united. do you feel that there's not been enough comfort with for instance letting a gang of six flourish.

>> no, i don't think that's a problem. you may say they tried to kill it, but the gang of six was out there. they had their own internal problems. and they probably contributed a fair amount to the discussion. you could say bob cork errands some of the things he was talking about contributing to the discussion.errands some of the things he was talking about contributing to the discussion. i do find it interesting that dave camp and max because cuss are both on the super committee. it does have the virtue that it will only require 51 votes to pass in the is that the. >> i would agree with you on max and dave because they're both reasonable people, great legislators. as a moderate standpoint, i stood up for the things i believed in and i think that's important. think who are people need to. coming and finding the middle is where you'll find the results.

>> i have to leave it there. nice to see you. hope to have you both back. coming up, political panel will talk all things 2012 including why jim dement is still unhappy with the current field and why the house majority republican whip says mitt romney needs to take more time taking out the trash. but first, soup of the day. tuesday c tuscan chicken. [ grandma ] why do relationships matter?

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jim dement said 2012 might be the republican's last chance to fill congress and the white house with conservatives that meet his standards. what was interesting is who he talked about. karen finney, i don't knjonatha and ruth marcus, jonathan, i i'll start with you. gem demint used polls deciding who gets to come and who doesn't get to come. but he talked about candidates -- republicans that he praised and two weren't running for president. sounds like he's still not satisfied with the field. >> i think like a lot of conservatives would like to see more options out there. but if you do look at who is actually in the race, and if this is going to be it, it's tough to see how he's not going to be for rick perry. because -- >> i hear him and i'm wondering

he may be for mitt romney. >> romney is not going to his forum and he was invited. that was very telling. both in terms of demint and also i thought south carolina. >> mitt romney skipping south carolina? you do get the sense that he's certainly trying to back off south carolina. >> that leaves one say the that i can think of. on the question of jim demint and rick perry, it is hard for me to see where rick perry would fall short in jim demint's book. he's about as conservative as you can get. and i think that's governor romney's problem, which is how far does he go, how much can he afford to transform himself or retransform himself and if he's looking ahead to a general election, how much trouble does that cause for help. and i think those are some really important questions for

the romney camp. >> mitt romney all summer has tried to contrast with with the president. and today he gets another shot. he's speaking at the vfw. but it seems to me a lot of folks will be comparing romney to perry. i have excerpts of what romney will say today and it's one line that really jumped out at me. he'll say it's wishful thinking that the world is becoming a safer place. the opposite is true. consider simply the jihadists. the near nuclear iran, unstable pack is an, delusional north korea, emerging global you power called china. no, the world is not becoming safer. frankly, that seemed like the opposite of what rick perry said. >> absolutely. but you have romney trying to still make the case for electability. because you have some in the republican party looking at rick perry saying he might be conservative enough for the base, not quite as whacky as might be shachelle bachmann and

polished enough. romney has to continue to make the case i'm the grown up, i'm the guy that really understands global politics. perry's had a couple of flubs on foreign policy elements. so he's trying to make the case that i'm the guy that really can do this in the general election. >> it did strike me that perry's speech was a contradiction at some points. on one hand he sounded like an interventionsist, on the other hand he sounded no more world's police. >> yeah, i think to put it mildly, his foreign policy views are still being shaped here. >> he believes in evolution? >> all right, guys. >> here's a line from romney's speech today that's going to leave a mark. he's going to say that career poll siiticians can't get us ou the mess we're in. that. >> that's about his chief rival. >> he's in san antonio, texas, delivering that line. it's not subtle. we all get it. that's the preview of what's to

come. that's going to be the romney message against rick perry. this is a career politician, a guy who's on on the government dime for the past 20 years. >> when we come back, ruth, you get to talk about why kevin mccarthy thinks mitt romney needs to take out the trash. trivia time. abraham lincoln was the tallest president. who was the shortest? james madison. he was just 5'4". jimmy carter, i think, was the shortest of the 20th century. you're watching "the daily rundown."

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let's bring back our panel. ruth marcus, i said you get to do this. kevin mccarthy pulled no punches the other day at a chamber of commerce luncheon in bakersfield, california. he said this of mitt romney. he said he wonders who told mitt romney that now is a time to nearly quadruple the size of his family's beach out. romney needs to stop staying in

hotels, stay with volunteers. his job should be to take out the trash every day. if that bag breaks, he needs to clean it up. he also hit rick perry saying what plays in texas, doesn't play nationally. kevin mccarthy, perhaps the most shrewdest mind. tough talk. >> i think one of them should try to hire him as soon as possible. whoever told mitt romney to quadruple the size or whatever is the same person who told president obama to go to martha's vineyard on vacation. there's just a few things that are dumb to do in the midst of presidential campaign season. you've got to know how many houses you have, know the price of a gallon of milk, and don't build fancy houses or go on fancy vacations. >> quickly, karen, what i was surprised at with this story was that they've been so careful about these optics of late. the guy's never in a tie.

he's always looking more of a man of the people. he's been very careful. >> mccarthy was right. >> somebody wasn't thinking. >> absolutely right. somebody didn't pay attention. i've given candidates a sheet that says this is how much milk costs. this is how much bread costs. this is so you look like you're a normal person. >> my vote is for chuck todd, who was kind enough to give me a job. >> that is shameless. >> six years ago today. something else happened that day. it was one of the few lucky decisions i made correctly. >> my shameless plug is surprising. it's for rick perry's book. read it. it's called "fed up." i ended up being fed up with rick perry after i read it. >> hello. >> i'll do a shameless plug for johnathan martin's piece on rick perry. >> my shameless plug is tune back in at 1:00 eastern time today. i'm sitting in for the great

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