season, feech aaturing the saind the packers? of this result, we can be certain of one thing. if an nfl player does anything inappropriate or against the best rules of the game he will be penalized, chastised and potentially ejected from the field of play. standards, we're told, must be maintained on the field of play. what a shame that the same rules don't apply in washington. thank you very much for watching. dylan is on assignment, oh matt miller is here to take us forward. matt, what's on the agenda jnchtsz a little more parsing of 9 schedules snafu over the jobs issue what a lot think is a bad reflection on the white house's confidence at a critical moment for the economy, chris van holland is here from the super committee to talk where that's going to head. plus a defensetive look whether america can still be serious in the age of silly. the show starts right now.

today's big story --ç the games washington plays. good afternoon. i'm matt miller in for dylan ratigan. in the history of the republic, when president obama makes his seemingly 100th speech on jobs may be of little importance. has he says and how the congress gets us out of the jobs mess is what counts. but for the past 14 hour, guess what? it's all about the where and not the how. by now you know the president yesterday said his latest big jobs speech would come next wednesday before joint session of congress at 8:00 eastern time. the problem, on this very network at 8:00 next wednesday was a long-scheduled republican presidential debate at the reagan library. what to do? the speaker of the house, republican john boehner in a letter, asked the president to move his speech to the following night. this was unprecedented, and last night the president folks said, okay. they insist the time should not be an issue since they consulted with boehner's office before the

enansments. headlines say it all. the "new york times" leads with this -- speaker says no, so obama delays speech. "the washington post" read thus -- gop forces obama to reschedule jobs speech. think about what this means. a meeting at 9 white house. senior aides discussed days and dates. all agreed, we want to get our new jobs message out there next week before the ten-year commemoration of september 11th starts to dominate the news. congress is only in session wednesday and thursday, and thursday there's a big football game between the new orleans saints and the green bay packers. someone, we don't know who, thought stepping on the gop presidential debate was a bright idea. a kind of pow are play showing washington who's in charge, and everyone including the president signed off. now john boehner has rolled the president likes he did on the debt ceiling. white house aides scrambling to defect blame for this cave insisting the debt was vetted with boehner's office and moving it to thursday was no big deal. give a listen. >> wednesday was the best

option. when that wasn't çavailable, seemed to be a problem, thursday was fine with us. and -- we were just looking forward to the president -- the president's looking forward to the opportunity to talk about what the american people really care about. the economy and the need to create more jobs. >> jay carney insists the speech will wrap up before the big nfl kickoff. to sort it out. mike viqueira at the white house, glen thrush who covers the white house for politico, co-sponsor along with nbc of that debate and our great mega panel. karen finney, susan del percio and jimmy williams. welcome ant lialysts all. political event. five great brains to dissect it simultaneously. vic, start with you. jay carney went through a painful press briefing asked repeatedly who really dropped the ball at the white house to be in a situation where this kind of date wasn't vetted properly in advance and the president looks once again kind

of weak, and it's kind of the gang that couldn't shoot straight. what are you hearing? >> the suspicion in the press room, it was vetted in advance, and they tripped up on their own selves in having a conflict and having john boehnane describe boehner to describe asking for a new date. the american public does note give a lick whether this speech son wednesday or thursday. having said that, carney said the reason they went for wednesday is because the president wanted to speak to congress since they'll have to pass many of these 3r0er8 proposals he'll put forward presumably next thursday. they are ultimate going to have to pass that and he wanted to speak with them the soonest they could. they've been on a six-week recess. corny went on to proclaim, the american public does not have time for pettiness and posping. this dispute is ill relevant and the eschews trump this. if anyone's aware of that it's the folks inside the west wing from the president on down, especially on the eve of yet

another jobs report, matt, don't have to be remind, most viewers don't have to be repeateded, unemployment is 9.1% and all of the kerfuffle, a favorite word tossed around today, comes on the heels -- actually minutes after the white house revealed their mid-session review of the economy. this is a constitution -- legislatively dict taited update they have to do to forecast prospects for growth and unemployment. the white house, the president's own omb office, management and budget, says unemployment will average 9.0% -- 9% flat through the course of next year. economic growth for this year, 1.7% up to 2.6% next year. not enough obviously to bring down the unemployment rate. that's a concern not only for the 14 million americans out of work, but for the president's political operatives and his machinery out in chicago, matt. >> talking more about jobs later in the show. glen what kills me about the white house spin today is jay carney and others are making it sound like it was sort of the

creation of the beltway press, when this was a totally self-inflicted, in my view, terrible staff work it to leave your president in a position where he gets stiff armed by the speaker of the house. you're the co-sponsors of the debate with nbc. did boehner or white house people talk with you guys in the last 24 hours how this would get resolved? >> well, i think, you know, we all know what we're going to get them for christmas pap bunch of day planners. the level of coordination these guys had with each other, talking about the hill and the white house, is somewhere below the kw0rdenation i have with nigh kids' dentist in terms of 1 set offing up an appointment. you can't have a situation in which nobody communicates and you negotiate this stuff out in public. carney tried to make it look like we were blowing it out of proportion and talking about side show. te telling you, this is not at side show. it's the main event. they don't talk to people on the hill, communicate with republicans or democrats in a direct way'sit's built up a lot of resentment, and these

chickens have come home to roost, and they've got to come home to roost again when we start talking about the super committee and these negotiations over the deficit. >> karen, bring you in. you and i both worked in a democratic white house and i think you share my impression, this is a kind of astounding failure of just kind of normal blocking and tackling, when it comes on the heels of the whole debt ceiling fiasco. the general impression, the white house got rolled. it leaves the white house looking weak and less than competent at a really critical moment both for the economy and for this presidency? >> right, matt. the other thing, i literally was trying to think to myself, okay. what was happening in the staff meeting when dates were tossed around? when somebody said tuesday -- wednesday, and the quiconsequen of wednesday and call the speaker's office and all this. did nobody really -- really -- think there was potential boehner would say, no, and that if he said no you either, a, have to be prepared to push b, .

if you move to thursday you're going to look like you caved. but, also, why would you do something like this over an issue that is so important? this is a man-made ridiculous disaster, and i have to say, in my mind, comparing this to, like what we just saw last week with irene, like, that's the kind of stuff we should be putting our time andç energy on. not cleaning up petty messes that are man-made. >> susan, before i get to you, i want to put up a public service for the entire journalist committee. for cave. fortuna important for the entire press corps. buckle, fold, don seed, bend, defer, submit, give in, knuckle under, kowtow, surrender, yield, comply, capitulate. susan del percio, on your side of the aisle, you must be pleased to see this kind of political malfeasance? >> it's not about being pleased. no one likes to see government not working well. that's exactly what happened.

>> you were magnanimous in trial. right? >> you don't need to -- the other thing is, they also would have looked very political just if it would have stayed at wednesday. taken hit there's. they were taking it before the story changed. either way i actual aagree with you and karen. it's bad planning internally. now on top of it, he also stepped on all his stories. trying to soften the ground where he was going. >> exactly. >> so he completely stepped on himself and it just looks foolish and it's really bad for the president. >> jimmy, a bright side? >> no. not really. i mean -- well, look. i worked in the senate almost seven years and i've got to be honest. anytime the white house, whether clinton or bush or whoever it was, wanted to come up and have a conversation with us. you don't say no to the president of united states. can you imagine if tip o'neill had ever said to ronald reagan, go to hell. you can't come have a conversation with us? it would never have happened. it just wouldn't have happened. it's tacky on all fronts.

what i will tell you, if i were sitting in the white house right now and thank god i'm not, advising this president, i would tell him to get out there and democrat gaug a demagogue andç demonize the house. i don't john boehner is a great guy. the problem, it's a lack of respect on both sides, and, two, i forgot who i said earlier, maybe viqueira's point earlier. both sides are now in the business of slashing and burning each other and the american people just don't give a daminn. don't want to hear it. my brother in south carolina could care less about this stuff. all he wants is jobs created, and the price of gas to go down and guess what? this letter the speaker sent to the president and the president asked him to come to congress, none of it is addressing that issue. >> back to your brother's agenda shortly, jimmy. the panel's going to powder their nose. thanks to mike viqueira and glenn from politico for coming by and helping parch with us a

little bit. coming up, more of my thoughts on amateur hour at the white house and what does the democratic leadership think of their president's political gains? i'll ask form a former chair. and when this whole mess is supposed to be about. jobs. provocative thoughts on outsourcing. plus, washington certainly needs a reality check. but do we need one, too? dealing with serious problems in the age of silly. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one.

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libya's transition must proceed in a spirit of reconciliation and justice, not retribution or reprisal. >> today world leaders debating the future of libya 42 years after gadhafi first took power. in paris secretary of state hillary clinton and other world leaders met with the leaders of libya's national transitional council. even russia acknowledged the rebel's transitional government as libya's ruling and legitimate thoert, but gadhafi remains defiant. in a radio address today he insisted he won't surrender and anti-gadhafi forces forced ga doff into hiding after taking control of tripoli 12 daysç ag. they're giving loyalists an extra week to negotiate surrender. director of analysis for a global consulting company advising government and multi-nationals and sergeant gohill for the asia-pacific foundation. welcome. ree rieva, let me start with you. what about the meeting today in

paris? the real acceleration in terms of recognizing and working closely with this transitional council? what in your view is the notice important priorities in the weeks ahead? >> clearly, gadhafi has not capitulated. the war is not over. that shouldn't come as a surprise. the more you see these members of the gadhafi regime to be placed on trial at the hague, the less room you leave for retreat. that is exactly what prolongs the war. so gadhafi really does not have any incentive to negotiate. if that's what the rebels are hoping for. he was a tyrant, but really isn't all that isolated. all you really have to do to continue to pose problems and extend the war is survive. remember that saddam hussein was found in a hole without an army. gadhafi doesn't need several army divisions to continue this war. he really needs to just show that he can hold out. it's not looking great for him, but he can bet that chaotic

conditionless prevail in libya the more we see fissure unless the rebel opposition comes to the floor. >> at the same time, this fractured but trying to unify transitional council has its hands full trying to provide security, trying to make sure there's running water, that the lights are on, that basic services are met. this is a group that hasn't had to do something like this before. can the west be helpful and can they pull it off?ç >> well, ultimately, this has to be libyan's future. the key dynamics are to deliver a democracy, stable a economy and importantly national immunity. the hard part of removing gadhafi's central forces has been partly resolved but now as you mentioned, the key services have to be instituted. many that has been frozen internationally has to be handed back to the country. it's important that libya

confronts the country with enormous natural resources and many people have, remembering the downfalls and failures in iraq post-saddam hussein, no one wants to see that happen in this country. it's strategically an important area. you have groups affiliated to al qaeda that border libya that may want to take advantage of the situation. one doesn't want insecurityy. that's the primary concern, and if the different factions can't resolve their differences, because their very various. you have conservatives, secklerist it's, former gadhafi loyalists, those living abroad as well as tribes from the east and west, they have to overcome this to ensure a more stable libya in the future. >> rieva, can we expect american personnel as well as european personnel, civilian nation builders, will be parachute in to make sure the council can do the basic blocking and tackling of basic governance to make sure they don't collapse before it's fully

born? >> that's something being negotiated right now especially as americans and europeans are just now figuring out who exactly they've been supporting the past several weeks and months. so far it's really not a pretty picture. if you even just look at this, you see the head of the military council, he was a former leae[ of the libyan islamic fighting group, tightly associated with al qaeda, with even named by al zawahiri in afghanistan, fought in afghanistan, this is a very prominent figure with the rebel opposition camp, and the concern here is that the fall of gadhafi, if and when that happens, is going to create a major political vacuum in the country that islami isist milit can exploit. >> one of the things i'm worried about, the weapons stockpiles gadhafi had in various parts of the country and the fear that stuff could get -- because of

the disruption and chaos, could get into the wrong hands. has are the steps we need to take to make sure that doesn't happen and are you confident that we can prevent these kind of things like anti-aircraft missiles that are portable, which in terrorists hands could be a disaster for the west that this won't happen? >> again, lessons need to be learned from iraq. weapons stockpiled are often utilized by insurgents and extremists in iraq to carry out attacks against coalition forces. keep in mind that libya is a far bigger country, predominantly inhabited in the northern part of the country. otherwise surrounded by the sat h sahara, for individuals to base themselves, hide, seek sanctuary, take advantage of the situation. there are a lot of challenges and questions that have to be dealt with and the national transitional council really has its hands full in trying to tackle these different issues,

because of the fact that the security apparatus is very weak. there is no formal structure to replace gadhafi's forces. you have aç hodgepodge of different elements. all this potentially conflicting agendas and some may try and seize the opportunity to bolster their own case, and that's where the west especially france and britain, are going have to play a more direct role in ensuring that they don't stray from the platform of commitment to democracy and ensuring stability and an effective security apparatus. >> thank you both for joining me today to illuminate mistakes as we look at libyas 2350u67 future. stakes are high in the middle east but in the u.s. as well. fighting a debt crisis, struggling to create jobs for americans but you wouldn't know it because d.c. is playing a game of telephone over speech dates. the date of the speech matters much less than the president's new agenda actually is on jobs, but appearances, including the appearance of competence in the

white house matters. especially for a president whose public confidence is at all-time lows. why everyone at this hour in the political world is asking the obvious question -- how do the smartest guys in the room become the guy that couldn't shoot straight? joining me, a member of the debt super committee, representative chris van holland. thank you, chris, for taking the time. i want to talk with you about the super committee's mission and where you think it, but on a day like this i can't help but ask you, what did you make of this whole speech snafu with the schedules? was the white house staff picking its poison, deciding it was better to step on the gop presidential debate than on an nfl game? >> well, matt, look. the best thing to be said of this whole episode is it's behind us now. the good news is that there is going to be a speech thursday night where the president addresses the nation on jobs and the economy. there's been a lot of talk about the scheduling issue, but hopefully we can nowç turn to e substance, what the american people care about.

has are we going to do about the economy and about jobs. >> i want to turn to that. just one more than nano second. what about the leadership the party needs? >> the white house said they did reach out to the speaker's office and they had pre-cleared this. there must have been some kind of miscommunication in the process. what they've said is that the white house chief of staff of the white house reached out and let the speaker's office know exactly what they wanted and they were given the green light. now, look. i do not know all the details. you don't know all the details. the good news is that we've now moved on. the president will address the nation, i think everyone's looking forward to what he has to say. >> let's talk the super committee. you guys are starting your work, staffed up. are you optimistic or pessimistic about achieving

results when the same kind of partisan differences, the almost center, the republicans on the committee will vote for anything that includes new taxes almost seems to doom it from the start? >> let's wait and see. i don't want to prejudge the situation. none of us can predict obviously outcome. what i do know is that i think the members of this committee are entering the process in the spirit of trying to get things done. look, all of our colleagues have been around the country. they're hearing loud and clear from the american people that congress needs to get together and try and work through for the good of the american people. every bipartisan group that tackled this issue, you well know harks come up with a balanced approach. yes, we freed to do cuts but also generate revenueç closing corporate tax loophole, asking folks at the very top to pay what they were paying during the clinton administration or something along those line. i hope to his bipartisan

commission will take the general framework others have taken. not every detail, but if we can agree on a framework similar to what other bipartisan groups have done, then there's promise. again, i don't want to prejudge this. we haven't had our first meeting yet. we're hoping to do that before the dates set out in the statute for the first meeting, and let's just take it one step at a time. >> here's my two big sources of skepticism i'd love your reaction to. first, $1.5 trillion over 10, the new deficit the committee is tanked with. that's not really enough to get our fiscal house in order. even if the succeed it fails. second, this trigger of automatic spending cuts clicking in if the committee can't reach the kind of deal that you've described. those triggers -- people haven't noticed. the actual cuts won't take place until the beginning of 2013, after the next election.

plenty of time for the new congress and a new president or re-elected president to actually repeal any tregered cuts, making some think this is a little bit of a charade. your reaction? >> your first point, i do hope we'll go bigger in terms of long-term deficitreduction. we need to focus on the economy and jobs the fastest way to put america back to work and begin to tackle the deficit. every day the economy is in stall is another day that people aren't able toll provide for their families, also another day when the deficit gets bigger. that's need to be coupled with ambitious long-term deficit reduction plan. the target should be along the lines of bipartisan commissions, $4 trillion over tenç years, counting the approximately $ 900 billion in cuts already made. so i hope the committee will be ambitious both in terms of the jobs piece, but also the long-term deficit reduction

piece. with regard to the across-the-board cut, sort of damocles. the reality, those would be top and arbitrary across the board decisions, and to your point, the fact is that there is a slow fuse before the cuts actually go off. but there would be very, very little time after the next election for a lame duck congress or a new president to deal with it, because they go into effect in january of 2013. so if this committee, the joint committee, is unsuccessful, that fuse begin, runs for a year. if we're not successful the chances of the congress over the next, the following year being able to resolve these issues would be very small. so that is a huge roll of the dice for people who think, yeah, we've got a little time before this thing goes off. i think the time will go quickly. >> we'll see as we go forward whether one congress' slow fuse is another congress' escape

hatch. chris van holland, richa apprecu explaining your perspective. >> thank you. next, now hiring. our specialist with the inside track on 11,000 job openings in her company and what she said it will take to get other business owners hiring, too. emily's just starting out... and on a budget. like a ramen noodle- every-night budget. she thought allstate car insurance was out of her reach. until she heard about the value plan. and saving money with allstate doesn't stop there... kim and james are what you might call overly protective. especially behind the wheel. nothing wrong with that. in fact, allstate gives them a bonus -- twice a year -- for being safe drivers. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate. but it's our job to make them say something interesting. so how about this weekend we learn some new tricks of the trade... then break out our doing clothes

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while washington bickers over he said she said, real job solutions with our next guest. looking to put 11,000 americans to work. her ideas on job creation have even been complemented by the president. give a listen. >> she's creating thousands of call and sales jobs bringing jobs back to the united states that have gone overseas in the last several years, and she has some very specific ideas about how we could foster more of this reverse job migration. >> our specialist today is the

co-chairman of arrive virtual solutions. and the mega panel stuck around to ask her some questions. thanks for coming by today. >> thank you. >> aç presidential endorsement for your jobs idea. you have several major ideas you think could, via your business, help provide jobs for the u.s.? >> weren't of the important things we're seeing, the million jobs that left the shores of the united states in the last ten years in the call center industry have remained offshore. and we suggested two years ago to endorse and invent the companies t onshore. and one of the things we recognized that may be a perceived barrier is what the cost to do that might be, and what we've determined is that, because it take twos or three phone calls, typically, to get your question answered by someone in india, versus getting your question answered by someone in indiana which might take one call to get answered,

that neutralizes the overall costs because of the difference in the wage rates. we're encouraging the administration to consider how to incense u.them to bring thos jobs back. >> are they good jobs? >> terrific jobs. our business that grown 80% in the last the two years since when he the good fortune of participating in the jobs forum. we found families want to stay in local communities. people want to have the flexibility to be able to work from their home, or be able to work when they have the opportunity to, working around their family's schedules. >> this is an at-home call center? people working at home? >> absolutely. a young child or sick parents, they need flexibility. what this opportunity offers them is the ability to construct thiv other work schedules and work how offer and when they choose and choose the different companies they provide service for. so we have folks that will work 80 or 90 hours a week and can earn in the high $80,000 a year.

it's very lucrative forç folks >> my question is, that cook we saw was from about two years ago. the president mentioned specific recommendations he was going to consider and hopefully implement. have they been implemented? seems to me a lot of people offering solutions aren't seeing them followed through on by the administration. i'm curious if any of the things back then have come to fruition? >> that's a great question and i know there were 150 executives at that meeting, and lots of ideas being generated. we haven't seen specific action being taken on the ideas that we had offered up yet, but we know that what we are seeing is u.s. government -- excuse me, u.s. companies are actually embracing the notion of at-home work since our business has grown so much in the last two years? >> the private sector is embracing it, just not the government? >> the private sector is embracing it. >> i like the idea, on the phone

the other day with someone from india. it, honestly, pis schted me off. >> sometimes you're lard to understand, jimmy. >> you think i'm hard to understand? you have no idea what i was dealing with. that's another issue. er where's my question. you're creating american jobs, okay, but what i think most americans want to know is, why aren't we making things right here in america? so, i mean, you're in the business of call centers. your clients are in the business of making products, i assume, mostly in china. are you encouraging that your clients, the people that you're actually establishing american call centers for to actually bring jobs back here to make products, and then when something goes wrong or right with those products, then they call into your call centers in indiana? >> so it's a good question, and what we see is thatç businesse have to make profits and they

have to make money. so they're looking for the best, most economical way to actually build products and offer services. what we're saying is that by virtualizing the work, by being able to bring the work into the homes of the american people, what we see is a nearly 30% cost reduction, simply because -- not because the wage rate has been reduced, but because we're able to variablize the work. meaning we can staff folks in 30 minute increments, rather than driving to a call center and work an 8-hour shift. many of the intervals you may not be busy but are obligated to give somebody full-time work turnt. opportunity. we find rather than trying to expect a company to make an unprofitable decision, we actually find this is a tremendously advantageous decision for a company to make, because it has economic benefit in the range of about a 30% cost

reduction for american companies. >> karen finney with a question. >> sounds a lot like it builds on the idea of flex time in a lot of ways or some of the same principles. we hear over and over again that regulations are a real barrier for job creators, such as yourself. i guess my question is, in this industry, are there certain regulations that currently exist that would be helpful to have removed? would that help make it easier for people to kind of explore this option? or are there not regulations? >> to susan's question earlier, which i think was a good one. what's standing in the way? what are the barriers? that'sç the question you're asking as well. and the at advantage we see to this kind of program is that there aren't barriers. we have a network of over 20,000 small business the united states today who are able to provide for their families by doing this work. there's no barrier right now for them to be able to create their

small business and be able to provide work to -- to their family and to their business. and so we believe that the one thing that could be very interesting is for the administration to look at the social contract that has been created between traditional employs and employers, and determine whether or not that social contract still makes sense. today's american workers want flexibility. they want choice. they want the ability to work when they can and how often they can and they may want to take their specialized skills and apply them to multiple companies rather than actually just simply doing work for one company. and many of the traditional labor laws that exist in the u.s. today are very much oriented around that very traditional labor relationship between an employer and an employee and we think there are possibilities to be able to open up and take some fresh looks at ways that we can encourage more small business creation.

we know there are about 550,000 small businesses created in 2010. and that is really one of the best places for us to get these 13 million folks unemployed back to worth. >> another segment at some point how to reform the labor law and independent contractors. thank you, angela selden. you haven't solved the manufacturing crisis in america as well as employs 11,000 people. that wasn't enough for oneç ye for jimmy. thank you for joining me today. thank you as always to the mega panel. you've been here mega amounts of time today. jimmy williams, karen finney, susan del percio. thanks as all. after the break -- homesick. are your money problems actually making you sick? woman: downloading music can be expensive.

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study by two economists the answer is, yes. the findings show cities with particularly high foreclosure rates also have especially unhealthy residents. specifically more hospital and er trips related to blood pressure and stress and even more suicide attempts. the reportç goes on to say not just arriving at hospitals, neighbors word a foreclosure sign next door means their biggest investment is worth less too. however, it may not be just about your home but money troubles in general. nationwide hospitals have seen a 5% jump in patients since receipt session hit. leaves us to wonder what do we need more? chicagoan soup or loan modification? coming up, with serious issues like that, no wonder americans escape. but has america forgotten ho to be serious? [ male announcer ] this is coach parker...

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that's 50% off lenses. including bifocals, no lines, even sunglasses made with your prescription. sale ends september 12th, so hurry in. lenscrafters. what the [ bleep ] -- [ bleep ] -- it seems like nowadays reality tv shows like "the real housewives of new jersey" aren't far from the way politicians acted on capitol hill. or the way we get our news with a side of silliness from comedians like jon stewart and stephen colbert. begging the question, are we living in an age of silly, or can silly still be serious? joining me to cover these questions, author of "are you

serious? how to be true and get real ". we were saying before the break, we've been mutual fans and pen pals for years and now get to the meet on american television. >> only in america. >> you're going say in six minutes, it's impossible to be serious and give serious treatment 20 your book. i want to do the best question. what's your beef where the culture is in terms of being serious? >> it's always been hard to be serious, of course. in our public life the technology of silliness is so sophisticated. so distractive and overwhelming it's hard for public figures, for us to be serious about public life. >> give examples where we're not being serious, where i guess in a prior era you sayç we would have been? >> well, twitter, for example. you have to -- everyone's on twitter now. they do twitter more than read the newspaper and listen to the news. it's very hard to be serious in 140 characters. >> yet you also talk about the way that some of our comedians,

which offer some of the best political analysis, are actually finding ways, a great phrase. serious yet silly yet serious. talk about that a little bit. >> yeah. i call it the new anti-serious seriousness. colbert and stewart are great examples of this. professional clowns. professionally silly, but they have a kind of liberating seriousness that people turn to in this moment of a vacuum of real serious thinking. >> now, is this related to the loss of authenticity? i think people sometimes feel somehow in their bones and sort of maybe that speaks to the kind of crying every few years in our electoral process for candidates who seem, quote/unquote, authentic? is that related to this? >> sure. i think that's why obama was elected. commentators again and again use the term serious. and he said he'd talk to the american people as if they were grown-ups. as if we hadn't been serious to that moment.

a feeling bush was a silly fool and we suffered under eight years of silliness and now have an articulate thoughtful man, author. really seriousness and he's arg guys over the date of debating boehner. >> is that his fault, our fault in the media? is it kind of a co-conspiracy of silliness? >> yeah. it's so hard to be serious when you've got the public events and figures broken up into a million different venues. obama could be the most serious guy in the world. you see him in twitter, get him on blogs. on tv. i think this eventç silly on t surface is actually profoundly serious and exhibits yet again a profound schism in american lives. >> there's no silver bullet, i assume, for making america more serious, but given this whole media political vortex that we live in now, what's the path towards renewed seriousness in

an age like this? >> well, i have a recipe in my book. a little formula. three element it's of seriousness. attention, purpose and continuity. >> attention, purpose and continuity. >> apply these things to public situations, give them a report card evaluation we might come up with a way to at least approach our public events with more seriousness. our people, are they paying attention or talking past each other? do people seem to know why they're there? what's the purpose? a sense of continuity? is there a sense of what, in the past, got you to where you are and in the future where what you're doing will take you. the elements are there. we certainly have them in our private lives. we live like this. those elements are there, then we'll probably be okay in the long run. >> just about 30 seconds left. you cite shelly schellenberger, the pilot who landed that plane. because he was just doing his work. >> he was just doing his job. to me that was the purist most

of attention, purpose and continuity con ververgconverged miraculous moment. he wasn't a hero. seriousness if anything. doing his job, paying attention. knew what the future would bring. >> these verify cirtues can bri back back seriousness. we couldn't do fully serious justice in the time we had buti urge folks to look at it. a great contribution to the debate how we get our bearings back in an unusual moment in american society. thanks for joining me today. >> thanks, matt. coming up on "hardball," now, that's serious. right? more on the school yard antics of the white house and who the real losers are when the president caved. first, our mega panel mega minds. a very first rant. that's ahead.th e's listerine® a. its triple-action formula penetrates biofilm,

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here now on how gadhafial fall in libya may bring justice for the lockerbie victims, imogene with her "daily rant." take it away. >> thank you. repeatedly asserted the release of the only convicted lockerbie bomber megrahi has done more to hurt relations since the crisis. scotland has a separate legal system and megrahi tried under scottish law in the netherlands. convicted of 270 counts of murd are for the bomber of pan am flight 103. the victims, 189 americans and

43 british citizens. megrahi was released in 2009 on compassionate grounds, supposedly with three months to live. the scottish obviously made an extremely bad judgment call. two years later, megrahi is still alive in tripoli, albeit appearing to be at death's door. i would like to take this opportunity to perhaps reiterate to america that that was an utter outcry throughout britain about megrahi's release. not least from our current prime minister david cameron who was not in power at the time. gadhafi's regime is by no mean the brita the uk's biggest atrocity. in 1984, a plit police officer was shot and killed at a protest outside the libyan embassy. the libyans seem to go on were they i.r.a., this isç much

disgust in the uk. those responsible for allowing him to return is a scottish legal decision and there was no conspiracy involved. former u.n. ambassador bolton claimed the release was a british oil interest. would the scots really do this for oil? i venture not but say this, if you buy in with the theory megrahi was a legal decision and the british government made it, i can't see how the uk accurateaccurat accurately described at america's poodle would have done that. he met with gadhafi in 2004. truth will come out in the end. and eventually the release of the british, scottish and american governments documents, and in the near time, the gadhafi regime may finally reveal new evidence regarding

the conviction repeatedly called into question and undoubtedly all perpetrators of the lockerbie tragedy still at large. it remains open. the british people stand there, american counter parts demanding the lockerbie families of the victims get the answer deserved. >> imogene, you could be ambassador. a very good and very able and eloquent articulation of the aligned british and american interests against this. one of the things i thought was interesting today, 30 seconds is all. hillary clinton at the meetings in paris brought up with the transitional council even though they have a lot of things on their minds in terms of stabilizing the situation in libya, the same issues, wanting to get this guy, feeling injustice was done. that's a positive thing. >> exactly. justice has not been done. we freneed to find outç what happened. the families absolutely deserve that. this is sour chance. we might finally have those answers.