counselor in yosemite. the 21-year-old math major who plans to return to school for the fall semester says the conflict is, in his words, one of the few real revolutions. in the top of the hour, we asked you why are you awake on this friday morning? your answers from rob gifford. >> yes peter. a lot of people excited about college football. kathy writes, i'm tossing out the sweater vest and putting the beer on ice. it may be the best thing we buckeyes can cheer for this year. >>that. as a child of a wolverines, all i can say is beat bc this weekend. what else you got? >> alan rights, been reported missing -- anybody notice you have never seen the patty and willie geist together. it's one person. "morning joe" begins right now.

the side show won't matter. the economy matters. the american people matter. jobs matter. that's what we are focused on. thursday today, thursday today. the president wants to talk to the american people and call on congress to act. it's what we are going to do. >> 6:00 on the east coast. good morning it's friday, september 2nd. can you believe it? school starts soon for the kids. with us on set, the editor-in-chief and co-publisher of the new york daily news, mark zuckerman joins us. good day to have you. peter alexander is here. >> sorry i'm here. >> we have completely tore you down. welcome to "morning joe."

have you liked being here all week? >> i loved being here. >> were you here when we were gone? >> yeah. >> what's the difference? >> is this thing rolling? it's nice to always have you here. how did that go? >> wow. >> more enthusiasm. >> the table shifts all the time. it's fun to see the trading places. >> thank you, peter. he won't be back. deputy washington bureau chief, michael crowley is back with us. haven't seen you in a long time. >> it has been a long time. >> where have you been? >> new york then washington. i'm glad to be here. >> sam stein from the "huffington post." you are in washington this morning. >> i'm waking up. joe will be here shortly. let's talk about what is in the

news. i think -- i can't wait to hear your take on this bank story, which we'll get to in a moment. we'll start with jobs as president obama prepared for a jobs address next week. they are releasing a revised economic forecast predicting a decline in budget for 2012. 9.1% this year and 9.0% next year. estimated gdp growth expected to go up. the budget deficit would hit $1.3 trillion this year lower than the $1.6 trillion deficit estimated in february. paul ryan attacked the white house calling president obama's jobs record dismal. he said today's reports confirm the president's policies failed

to deliver on his promises of job creation, deficit reduction and much needed economic growth. since taking office, the president's policies made a difficult situation worse. with the president's jobs speech rescheduled. jay carney would not preview the speech, but there are reports it could include a national infrastructure bank to entice private investors to get involved in road projects. the president ignored his conservative critics and take action. john larson, chair of the house democratic caucus is expected to release three bills today to shift the focus of the deficit committee into job creation as well. with the speech scheduling snafu behind him, house speaker john

boehner is moving to his own address. his office confirms he will deliver his remarks to washington on september 15th. let's stop there and pause. first of all, boehner, i'm not surprised they are taking on. they should have their own ideas. this infrastructure concept, we don't know a lot about it, but it feels tired. >> it hasn't really started. everybody has been recommending this for several years. it's one of the best opportunities we have to fix the infrastructure. it's a job multiplier. it doesn't just save jobs, multiplies them. it's not going to take a long time to get under way so the impact on the economy is going to be quite, quite -- >> i think that's what i mean. it feels as if it should have been launched two years ago.

>> i recommended it at the president's jobs conference two years ago. i spoke with ray lahood, the secretary of transportation and it didn't get under way. it's astounding it didn't get under way. >> go ahead. >> when you combine that and the fact most of the other ideas out there are hard sells on capitol hill. people want obama to fix the economy, but he's got to find a sweet spot. it doesn't leave a lot of room. maybe extend the payroll tax cut. it's not a big stimulative push. i recommend to people, we had a terrific story on what the president could do -- tear town stock, write off a lot of houses

that are just in foreclosure and are not going to be turned around anytime soon. i think it would be great to see the president talk about housing. to me, this speech is missing the point, the crucial point. i's getting the housing market back in shape. >> easy to monday morning quarterback but it feels like housing has been missed for years now. it could have been a corner stone of rebuilding of our economy. >> yeah. it's the weight over the head. at any moment we could have a housing crisis that could bring the economy back into a second recession. what we are getting from the white house in terms of what the speech is going to have in store, a lot of it is infrastructure and a lot is construction. i would quifl with one thing with infrastructure. the stimulus they passed wasn't enough.

there's a $2 trillion hole in the infrastructure we have. what we have seen on the news with the images on hurricane irene and the affects in vermont, the roads and bridges we have are old and need to be repaired. one other thing, i don't think the president needs to go there and figure what he can get passed in congress, he has to build a case for what he wants. by that, i mean he has to not only deliver a speech, but campaign on it after he delivers it. >> amazing, you have been surprisingly quiet. >> i think i have been very impressed by the input of everybody around the table. i didn't want to get in the way. >> i know. >> i will say sometimes we try to make it more difficult than it is. >> yeah. >> it's fairly simple. people that own small businesses are afraid to hire one or two employees. you multiply that a million

times over, you are going to have a bad recession. the second somebody thinks, you know what, my credit is loosened up, i think we can drive demand, i'm going to hire one person here. whether talking 1984 or 1991, i remember in realtime talking with small business owners saying i think things are starting to pick up. i'm going to hire one person. i'm gonna invest a little bit more into business. listen, i'm not knocking the infrastructure projects, i agree, we have a huge housing crisis. until that turns around, nothing else is going to matter. there's an underlying problem. this is a problem the president has and it may not be fair but a lot of people that run businesses in the united states of america are afraid of what

this president may do over the next year and a half. you know what? they are afraid this congress and this political system is not something they can bank on. washington just doesn't matter, they think it's a lot more important than it is. as far as business goes, so many people are frozen in place. >> the greatest job generator in the economy are small businesses. i agree with you completely. their primary defendant along consumers and consumer confidence crashed. look at the two major surveyors of consumer confidence. they are 20% below where they have been even during recessions in the past. the consumer is bummed out and for good reason. they are worried about their own incomes. we have a huge unemployment factor. you are not going to get

consumer spending. >> you have been on the front lines of american capitalism for decades. tell me, what changed between 1983 and 1984? what changed between 1991 and 1992? what changes between every recession that seems great and quick recovery. >> this is a different recession. it's a totally different recession. it was caused by a huge financial crash. that financial crash wiped out a lot of value whether it's home value, business values, net worth. that cost a lot of people to cut back. secondly, we have had the worst unemployment since the end of world war ii. the real number is not 9.1%, it's 19%. when you get to the people out of work for 16 months and longer. >> this isn't -- just explain again as a businessman who has

been in this for a long time, this isn't the cause of a specific barack obama policy or a specify george w. bush policy or a clinton policy. this is a much larger structural crisis. >> i agree. >> for this country, is it not? >> you are absolutely right. somehow or other, we ended up in this huge financial bubble. it affected housing. housing went crazy. >> they were offering a deal they couldn't refuse. >> people thought housing prices which had never gone down were going to continue to go up. everybody was caught up in that. finally, the bubble burst. >> and here we are. the agency that oversees fannie and freddie, taking over 12 of

the biggest banks. news today according to "the new york times," the banks misrepresented the mortgage security during the height of the bubble. >> wait. fannie and freddie is doing this? can we just stop right here? can we just stop right here? when is washington, d.c. going to go after fannie and freddie? you can put up private banks all you want to. we have been listening to this. this has been such a scam for the past three years that everybody has had a target on their backs except for fannie and freddie, who have been mismanaged, corrupt -- you know what? they should investigate fannie and freddie. >> the finance agency. >> this has been a corrupt agency for years. you talk about corporate mismanagement. it's survived. i will say here, just one guys

opinion, it's survived because the person they contributed to the most over the past five, six years has been barack obama. >> you have to hold them accountable, too. >> hold on a second. what we heard is, it's been from the left, not oh you can't blame this on fannie and freddie. for three years now -- first of all, you can blame it on fannie and freddie. if they are equally to blame as every one of the big wall street banks, they are the only ones that have been protected. we have had the reform for the banks. why don't we have reform for fannie and freddie and shut them down? i interrupted michael. >> i don't think a lot of banking executives paid a personal toll beyond the losses they heard. i's not like people are going after the bank executives.

there's no personal accountability. we can have a long debate about the role they have played. i can't cite chapter and verse to you. if you look at the best data, it's really overstated? >> no, it's not. >> they were really not the main offenders. not that they were scot-free. >> you can go back to 1999 and read new york times articles. you can see 2002 and 2003. it started a process. it lowered banking standards and guess what? after they started it, the private banks rushed in, everybody jumped in. >> i have to jump in. gretchen wrote a book, "reckless endangerment" that supports everything you are saying. they lowered it to 3% to 4% of

the housing prices. they assumed housing prices were going up. when it went down, the equity was wiped out overnight. it was as important as any other factor in terms of the housing crash. >> a lot of people get angry, sam, when i talk republicans as well as democrats. they talk false equivalency. it was barney frank and a lot of democrats in 2003 calling republicans racist for trying to raise standards. they hated poor, black people. it's why they were trying to put tougher standards on fannie and freddie. but, it was a limited few. a lot of republicans talking about an opportunity society. everybody wanted everybody in houses. this was a conspiracy of a lot of people in both parties to lower standards for fannie and freddie. the question is, when is the

left going to give up an protecting fannie and freddie and sago after them? >> i'm not privy to what's going to happen to fannie and freddie in terms of capitol hill, with respect to "the new york times" story, it seems like fannie and freddie overseers are trying to protect them and going after the bank is part of it. it's fair to say the banks misguided or disguised the assets and they should be forced to pay for that. the problem is it's not helping the homeowner. the homeowner who is under intense pressure does little for that. we have to wait to see what the attorney generals are doing. they are probably going to try to bring some form of financial relief to the homeowner. this is just about trying to figure out who gets what package of money, fannie, freddie or the

bank. >> we had this nice talk with dick cheney yesterday. >> yes. >> enjoyed it. >> you were thinking he was nice. he's a very likable guy. nice guy. mike disagrees. this jumped out at me. he disagrees with it. >> what? what did he say? he calls dick the most dangerous veep ever. >> really? >> i want to check this one out. >> he did shoot a guy in the face. >> you raise the standards. >> i am sorry, i suggest that aaron burr sitting and killing a shooting president a bit more

dangerous. >> a tad. a tad. anybody know where alexander hamilton is buried in. >> this is amazing. >> in his tomb? >> you are good. you are good. >> he's buried in trinity church. >> really? >> yeah. right outside. we went down there to take some shots. alexander hamilton. >> don't you think peter has done a great job? >> he's done a great job. >> it's all up from here. >> why do you hate when loving would be so much better. >> i am a lover, not a fighter. >> how did the giants do last night? >> the season ended in april so i couldn't tell you. coming up on "morning joe,"

lesley stahl will be here and eugene robinson. up next, john harris takes a behind the scenes now. he is preparing to moderate next week's republican debate. >> really? there's another one coming up? >> there is. >> here is todd santos with a check on the weather. todd. >> good morning, guys. a jam packed weather rundown when you talk about the action going on. tropical storm 13. a big impact for the beach weekend. it's a slow mover. at this point, it's called stationary. as far as the rainshowers, that's one of the biggest issues across the gulf coast. portions of southern louisiana and tropical storm warnings for the coast of louisiana and southern mississippi. here is a look at the track. things get moving later on today. we could see a tornado or

tropical storm. maximum sustained winds at 35 miles per hour. a slow and long time frame. you are talking about through wednesday, still interacting with the areas along the gulf coast. that is the latest on 13. tropical storm katia is in the atlantic. watch the track over the next couple days, south of bermuda and the bahamas as a major hurricane. we'll keep an eye on this system. we'll look at travel weather coming up. for now, you're watching "morning joe." we're centurylink...a new kind of broadband company committed to providing honest, personal service from real people...

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president obama plans to unwind after his two week vacation. nine, a backyard barbecue with the guy who forged his birth

certificate. eight, flip through gadhafis sexy photos of condi. six, hire goons to rough up mitt romney. five, michelle's kale paes. michelle promotes healthy eating, read a newspaper. update his resume. two, whatever republicans tell him he can do and the number one president obama weekend plan sit around the bonfire reading scary passages from dick cheney's memoir. >> welcome back to "morning joe." politico's editor and chief, john harris. wow. >> i understand you are going to have a republican debate coming up? that is great, when is it going to be? >> next wednesday in california. >> i can't wait.

i just found out about it. that's exciting. let's talk about debate prep for that. what are you doing right now? do they take you to an undisclosed location and people pepper you with questions to ask? >> undisclosed location, maybe 100 yards from this studio. >> really? okay. >> mark is one of the great nbc producers. he's the producer of this show. >> how exciting. >> brian williams and i for part of the evening. >> it's exciting news. >> it's hard work getting ready because chuck todd is going to be on the show later. >> do you get nervous? do you smoke a lot, drink a lot? i got a question for you to ask

rick perry. ask him what exactly does he mean -- this is a politico story, by the way. he says social security is a quote, violent attack on american values. >> we could probably have a whole debate about that book. >> my very conservative mother might even disagree that social security is a quote violent attack on poor american values. what does he mean by that? >> he wrote a book before he ran for president saying he was trying to persuade people he was going to run. would i have written that book if i was going to run for president? he changed his mind, he is running. >> social security -- what does that mean? what does that mean? social security is a violent attack on core american values.

does he explain what he means? >> there's an extended passage in the book about social security. the most famous quote is describing it as a ponzi scheme. he's got explaining to do. >> politico says he agrees sarah palin may have been right, that president obama may have been trying to create death panels. i never saw the electric chair portion of this legislation. so he agrees that death panels may be created? >> it's a florida newspaper, used to be the weekender. ed anger was their paradi of a conservative columnist. to me, it's a big challenge for rick perry. there's obviously huge interest

in the republican party. i believe that the reason there's that excitement is precisely because he's the kind of guy to write these. >> the bad act is about to go up. i need you to answer my question. you are preparing for the debate. does he still believe that president obama tried to create death panels? was he talking about that on the campaign trail? >> we will try to get you answers. >> what does he say on the campaign trail about death panels? >> i don't know specifically what he's saying about this. he's not running away from the book. somebody hijacked me. you can't run away. the rival campaigns have to delve deep into it. all they need to do is go to

barnes & noble. go to barnes & noble and buy the book. there's the research. >> he went to texas a&m. >> not when he was preparing his letter to hillary. >> when did he write this book, again? >> this was last year. it was a group effort. >> john, your show. rick perry, in 2010, just last year called social security a quote, violent attack on core american values? >> just last year. >> if we don't come out of the debate getting him to answer some of the questions you are asking, we flopped. brian williams is great. >> putting the pressure on. >> be nice. >> he's going to be the nice

guy. >> you are right though. we have seen this time and time again. donald trump comes out, delivers a punch to the face. he goes up in the polls. michele bachmann does the same thing. rick perry, while i was chattering and browbeating you, you had an insightful point. the reason he jumped up to the top is because he says crazy stuff like this. >> let me add to that point, the best candidates, the most effective candidates are able to make these controversial statements and not be damaged by them. ronald reagan said stuff. >> tree for the biggest polluter. >> he's such an effective candidate. >> i would say barack obama, people thought reverend wright might affect his campaign.

the best politicians aren't bothered by what people say. >> read my book. read my book. >> that's good. >> he does not go read my book, he says like this. read my book. first time i metric perry, this is a great story. the first time this national political figure went to austin, texas to meet rick perry. what's it like being governor. he looks over and says, there's a mirror behind him, would you believe that a poor boy like me would be governor of the great state of texas. this political figure said what the heck. >> kind of looks like rick perry.

>> you know -- >> no, you don't. >> next year i'll handle him. >> all his invitations. >> who is next. >> we are going to be talking about gadhafi. we'll be right back. yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory.

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36 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe."

look at the head lips. moammar gadhafi releasing audio addresses on the 42nd anniversary of taking power in libya. he's accusing nato of trying to take over the country. he said we won't surrender again. we are not women. we will keep fighting. >> what does that mean? >> what is wrong with him? >> what's wrong with him? >> he should say we're not men. weaker. yeah. it comes as rebel leaders are extending the deadline. in gadhafi's hometown, they hope to avoid bloodshed. hillary clinton spoke yesterday with rebel leaders in paris saying libya must address the

situation with the lockerbie bomber. >> we raised and conveyed the importance the united states places on this issue. we want more information and we want to have access to those who might have been somehow involved in the planning or execution of the bombing. >> by the way, that nod and wink that we and the british government gave to you all for the oil -- >> oil, right. >> we would like you not to say anything about that. don't mention that in the future that we in great britain nodded and let him go. >> secretary clinton is -- >> shock. >> horrified. >> deeply saddened that he was allowed to die. >> regret for the families who had to watch that happen. that pig was sent home to not

die. he wasn't dying. he's still there. >> you don't believe in miracle cures. that's the problem. >> the medical treatment for this disease in libya is phenomenal. you go there, you get cured. >> i see that. must have been the confetti sprinkled all over him. chuck todd with this mornings developments from the house and kelly o'donnell from capitol hill. keep it here on "morning joe." >> big morning.

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tough man on spending. >> don't spend all the money. >> what's his record? he doubled spending over a decade. this year, he is spending more money than the state takes in, covering his deficits with record borrowing. he's supposed to be the tea party guy? there is an honest conservative and she's not rick perry. paid for and authorized by key conservatives. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." 43 past the hour. time for the must read opinion pages. we are going to "the new york times," david brooks. he writes in part this, some problems are exasperated by government regulations and could be eased if government pulled back. cultural trends and the nature of technological change. republican haves done almost

nothing to grapple with and address the deeper problems. tackling them means shifting the model away from the entitlement spending and more toward investment mitigating wealth and nurturing instead of broad based on tunety. >> sam stein i listened to them and they sound like they are out of 1994. the same thing we have been saying for 20 years. it's just like i said earlier this morning, we are undergone a structural change. you can cut all the regulations you want and all the taxes you want. we still have greater challenges out there competing against china, an ageing population, entitlement programs. david brooks is right, isn't he? >> yeah. there was a really interesting debate after 2008 when it seemed

the republican party because of demographics and the victory of obama, they were teetering toward relevancy. whether they needed to revamp the platform and politics and economics. 2010 happened. the republican party realized they could demonize and demagogue and it wouldn't be the same ideas since '94. i would put it further back there. the question is, going into 2012, whether it works again. i think david brooks is right here. this particular moment in our economic history calls for something more innovative. we have a rising hispanic population and simply saying a closed border policy on immigration is not going to cut it anymore. >> john harris, less taxes, less spending and less regulation. it's more difficult to say our

entitlement programs have to be overhauled. the chinese are investing in infrastructure. we need to do that as well. the world changed and we need to change with it. >> if republicans are still arguing about the same things they argued in 1994, a lot of democrats are arguing about the same thing they were arguing about in 1964. the entitlement programs. when democrats get in a jam, they go to medicare and social security, hands off. it usually works for them. that's why so many people, i think, are frustrated with politics. it's perpetual ground. we are arguing about the last decades issues and the last generations issues. brooks point applied to democrats. democrats who want an activist government. they have to preserve 10% or 15%

that doesn't go for defense. we are in a stale period. >> i'm surprised. this column reminds me of something that surprised me now. republicans don't seem troubled by concentration of wealth. warren buffett wrote that op-ed in "the new york times" making the point that investors like himself pay very low taxes on capital gains, investments. the income, the taxes you pay making money with your money are much lower than people pay through their wages. what is the republican response? jon huntsman wants to flash taxes on investment and capital gains and income you make from your financial holdings. you don't get a sense from the republican party they want to address it. the public is not out of their

minds over this. >> zuckerman, i would guess some republicans that support these policies they are hoping it kick starts the economy. >> i think one of the things we can do that will have a certain amount of bipartisan support is ridiculous. they do preserve all sorts of benefits and all kind of industries have special sweetheart deals. we are going to find a way to stimulate the economy to broaden the tax base, which is what warren buffett is suggesting. it's revenue neutral for the government. we stimulate the economy. it's one of the few options we have. it's something we ought to look at. we spend 8 billion hours a year preparing tax returns in this country. it's propostrouse what the tax code is.

some people benefit from it. people like yourself. >> myself? mort, there's only one billionaire at the table and it's not on this side. >> if you have to live with it, i'll live with it. >> sam stein wants in. sam. >> i'm also a billionaire. >> in your heart. >> in my heart and in the future. i wanted to jump on michael's point, it's a good one. the administration put out their review that is a look at the budget mid way through the year. from 2009 to 2011, corporate profits went up 46%. employee compensation went up 5.7%. the actual disparity of wealth is growing. it's not a political issue in the slightest. it's remarkable. >> hold on. >> i want to ask you, sam.

>> sure. >> i wrote a column in politico about the same thing. i agree the concentration of wealth in this country is a great challenge of the american dream over 20 to 30 years. look at jon huntsman's plan. he doesn't want people walking around in topcoats. this is the way you get america back to work. >> yeah, no. i'm not disputing that. what i'm saying is when you have a concentration, you think the people at the bottom, which comes to the majority would be outraged by it. we have people that vote against their own self-interest. it's for a lot of democrats that look at the situation and say how can we have a president that hasn't prosecuted a case. that is what is driving a lot of the angst of the progressive base. >> john harris, thank you for

coming in. >> john, you're great. >> chuck is helping with the questions. we have to get 200 questions down to 25. >> wow. could you ask chuck if we could put in a question about the miami hurricane? >> he's a florida guy, right? >> yeah. yeah, that would be cool. john harris, thank you very much. yankees and red sox coming up. i have friends there. >> you know what, that suck up to willie geist. >> all right. >> we shall return. ♪ in here, pets never get lost. ♪ in here, every continent fits in one room. it was fun, we played football outside. why are you sitting in the dark? ♪ [ male announcer ] in here, you're never away from home. it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.

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♪ you know, we really don't have to do this. >> i don't want to. >> you can set back from the ledge now. we can talk about whatever we want. your fiance. do you hate her so much, instead you are going to do willie geist? >> i love her so much that i'm glad to talk about a yankee victory. >> what do you love most about her? >> is this happening? >> i love that she is one of the kindest, most thoughtful people i know. >> could you give me an example so other young women across america looking to find a man

they love. give us an example of her kindness. >> when we have thirn years from now, we are going to play this. >> give us an example. >> i love my family and the way she -- is this happen sng. >> yeah. >> normally you are laying on a couch for these conversations. the way she fits into my family, i feel she's already one of them. >> really? i hope you like your family a lot. does she like your family? >> you're going to find out. >> i'm sure she does. >> tell me, what does she say when you went to paris -- did you get down on one knee? >> i got a, this is happening. it was the eiffel tower. just shy of 11:00. >> how did it happen. >> yeah. yeah. >> this is really happening.

they said come down for sports highlights. i told her that i saved this spot for the last night of our trip so that for the rest of our lives when ever you see the eiffel tower -- >> you know what? we are out of time right now. we didn't have time -- >> that's so cute. really? >> the green room, she's going to join the set of "morning joe." i can't wait to find out what happened in the baseball game. unfortunately, we ran out of time. >> peter, that's so nice. >> thank you, peter.

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ronald reagan and margaret thatcher restored the economic and military greatness in their time period. we are in a similar period. they are both tremendous examples. >> wow. >> she wants margaret thatcher and ronald reagan in this race. a lot of conservatives would agree. >> well, they call themselves conservatives. >> lesley stahl new ronald reagan. he was a friend of lesley

stahl's and michele bachmann is no ronald reagan. >> i'm not sure if you look at the first campaign he ran. >> in '76? >> yeah. this group would have said almost exactly what we say about michele bachman. he can't get elected. he's too radical. he's an actor. he's been governor of california. he doesn't have enough experience. i don't think anybody thought ronald reagan was going to get elected. >> that's true. >> mort? >> i happened to work in the white house when he was president. >> you did? >> yeah. when nick got jumped by the kgb. >> yeah? >> i tell you, we met every day. he got the issue right away. he was a very decisive. i was astonished by it.

i was surprised. >> it's like the "saturday night live" skit. they go behind the scenes and he was in charge of them. >> he was absolutely in charge. it was a complete surprise to me. >> i was not working in that white house at that time. what was striking about seeing michele bachmann s when is the last time we heard from michele bachmann, she wins in iowa then rick perry comes out. you have not seen her on television. >> you see peter alexander more. >> i want to follow up on what lesley had to say. i remember reading the story and siting it many times. after 1976, nancy reagan knew ronald reagan was going to run

again. she asked a friend to give a dinner party. ten people that would like to sit down and talk and plan for the next four years. movers and shakers. mike wallace called her back said sorry, i couldn't get ten people together. she said i'll take anybody. sorry, nobody wants to have dinner with ronald reagan. >> come on, he was president at the time? >> no, this was '76. the person writing the story was making your point exactly. ronald reagan was considered such a joke that mike wallace couldn't bring a few people together for a little dinner party for ronald reagan. a man who would be president four years later. staggering. >> staggering. when you jump forward when he had his recession. look, i'm only talking about performance here. i'm not talking about coming up

with good issues or anything like that. just in terms of the performance, he changed our perception of ourselves just by humor. actually, his adorableness. he used to go out and tell jokes. the jokes were cutting. they were funny at the same time. he never got the aura of being a mean old guy. he turned our spirit around. he had -- his ratings were lower in his recession than president obama's have ever been, even now. he got down to the middle 30s. in this period, he just slowly, like an aircraft carrier, slowly turned. >> let's talk about this. you were there in '82 and '83, inside the white house. you are right. his ratings were lower. unemployment was higher and yet there didn't seem to be this sense of hopelessness. >> oh, yes.

we had food lines. >> no, no, i mean inside the white house. remember carter in '79? i would say barack obama in 2011, you thought there may be a second act with ronald reagan. they were figuring out what to do and this guy would get through it. but you didn't sense that in '79. tell me how it's different today than it was in '82 and '83 when things were so much worse in unemployment. >> it's almost, in my memory, believe it or not, was worse then because even in the white house, he had, as i said, food lines. nancy reagan was the butt of not just ridicule, but venom. she was getting fine china and people were suffering in visible ways. we have pictures of people in food lines and people were suffering. it seemed that the animosity was

more active and uglier and uglier. >> you remember things tougher for reagan in '83 than for barack obama in 2011. >> i think it was worse. he turned it around personally. >> one thing involved that was not involved now, it was provoked by the federal reserve raising interest rates to 20% to break inflation. that's what they were able to do. reagan backed him. it was unusual for a president. once we broke the inflation that was hurting lot of people, they got a lot of credit for it and the economy took off. there was a policy reason behind what they were doing. that is what is forgotten. that's what produced high unemployment. there was a rational like we don't have today. >> it created more anger to the president.

they could blame him. now you get more of the sense that so many different reasons causing this. >> right. >> you don't blame obama. he isn't the target in the same kind of anger that we felt to reagan. go back to the point about how this president, how many -- if you got a room full of random 100 people from all political sides and said how many people think the speech he's going to give is going to ignite our passion and make us enthusiastic. if he's going to give us an idea that we can understand and come behind and no one will raise their hand. no one thinks it's going to happen. then what? he goes out to sell what? >> sam stein, what is the answer to that? >> i think, you know, the idea that obama represented it was the idea you can get beyond partisanship. it was a very 2008 idea.

part of the problem the white house faces is we have been through two and a half years where he can't even agree on a date for a speech on jobs. it's damaging to the president. this post partisan glow everyone was expecting has fallen apart. >> what we look at now is something this president has not dealt with. he hasn't dealt with low expectation. he came in with ridiculously high expectations. now, people are like you said, the 100 people in the room, they are not expecting much. >> do you think he'll surprise us? >> absolutely not. >> i hope he does. >> you know what is so shocking, you follow a lot of these presidential speeches, a lot of big events. there was a time when reagan went out. if he delivered a speech to the nation you wondered what he was

going to say. bill clinton, you never knew what he was going to say. this president, when he does an address, democrats as well as republicans say the same thing, what was that about? why did he do it? >> exactly. will this be different? you wonder if he can, you know, one of the things that reagan did and clinton as well, they understood you have to have that one similplistic thing. >> we don't do theatrics. >> come on. reagan said if you are not a good actor, don't get in this game. he was right. >> sam, i'm sure you have heard the white house loves to brag. they don't do theatrics, they don't boil it down. >> the american people are smarter. >> i don't care if you are

ronald reagan, fdr, steve jobs or the beatles. one idea, he pursued it with a passion. this white house had hope and change. what does it mean? >> that's the problem, i think. they are not -- they have been sticking to the same script and what the current situation calls for is a different script. i was in a briefing a long time ago with the prominent democratic pollster. he said the biggest challenge a president faces is convincing an american public that's depressed that things are going to get better or they are getting better. they don't feel it. they don't understand it or want to hear it. i think bill clinton did a good job with it. ronald reagan did a good job with it. he needs to convince the american people the next few years are going to be better. >> can i ask you a question?

say he comes out with a program that will have been inspired, i think by ceos and business people. he's reaching out for their ideas. what will the business community do to a plan that calls for the infrastructure bank? a lot of the things we expect? will they get behind them on this? >> let's assume there's a decent program. there's enormous anxiety or nervousness about the president in the business community. you can't just change the sense that you are been attacking the business world, which has been the case in the business world for the last three years and say well, in one speech, it's going to change. that confidence level is extremely important. reagan never lost it and obama never had it. >> bill clinton, peter alexander, bill clinton was the

dream candidate for wall street. he sees most republicans too extreme on social issues. bill clinton could always keep that balance. we talked yesterday with what it was between the republican congress and president obama, the time and place of the speech, there's no fear to stand-up to the president. president reagan changed the way we thought of ourselves. i think, if you cut back to 2008, everybody in this country anticipated, not everybody, but a large population across the board that president obama would have that same success in changing how we think of ourselves. >> he said that. >> because it's failed to happen, i think it's created a deeper cabin to crawl out to, you know, the higher standard for the next candidate. >> that's one of the thing that is concerned me.

i have a lot of problems with the president's domestic programs, from the beginning because of a small democrat. there were so many people that were excited about this president, about this man, about the belief that washington could change. one of my conservatives -- i'll so co-conservative friends i don't have many conservative friends anymore. they get upset with me because i talked about how inspired i was on the day of the president's inauguration. even if i didn't love his policy. 2 million people waving flags. this event every bit as historic as martin luther king's march on washington. i kept saying boy i hope this bubble doesn't burst. >> how much do you think -- >> for the same of america. not for the sake of this

president or his policies. >> how much do you think the bubble burst because he didn't, he didn't reach the expectation or that the republican party decided first and foremost objective was to burst the bubble? >> the president -- >> what do you think? >> one of the things reagan did that was remarkable, he established great relationships with the leaders of congress. tip o'neill and he worked on social security. they transformed social security. everybody thought it was a deadly issue. that does not exist at all. this administration has no good relations with the republican party in congress. >> boehner and the group in the house pulled the rug out. >> hold on quickly though. it's important for people to realize and you guys realize it that this isn't just -- this

isn't just a partisan issue. ronald reagan had great relations with tip o'neill. jimmy carter didn't. >> true, i know. >> they hated each other from day one. that's in part why jimmy carter had the problems he did over four years. sam stein, a lot of people are pointing fingers saying that's been the president's biggest problem. i hate to be a pest about this. barack obama, on washington, d.c., for the most important years of his presidency, for two years a filibuster proof majority in the senate, 79% majority in the house of representatives. even in january or february or 2009, columnists were blaming republicans for him not getting things done. sorry. the republicans would have had the same impact in france if they all went to france. >> hold on. hold on. two things.

one is -- >> wait, wait. barack obama had a filibuster proof majority at times. they couldn't have stopped him. >> one is columnists are stupid. if you look at the year he had all those assets, he did get stuff done, the stimulus, wall street reform, don't ask don't tell. all these things happened that people seem to forget. they were fruitful years. >> i'll let you finish, but they did forget. i's what we were saying in 2009. people walk into a store, i want shoes. job. the store person says let me show you some ties. no, i want shoes. i'll show you shoes in a second, but these sports coats are awesome. finally, you walk out of the store, if you're not going to give me my shoes, i'm going.

he had a chance to work on jobs x 2009 and 2010. >> that's a different argument. they passed the stimulus package. they thought it was going to do more than it did. they turned their attention to health care. listen. talking about ronald reagan's relationship with tip o'neill. as far as i can recall, he never said his objective was to make sure ronald reagan never finished basketball. it's ironic that his short time in the senate probably hurt that. we have better relations. keep in mind, this is a two-way street. if your primary add va sar wants out, you are not going to have good relations. >> if somebody says something like that about you, you go there. you just go there.

if someone makes me uncomfortable, i go there. what is this, not calling people out. >> "the new york times" did a front page story showing obama did not meet with mitch o'connell for the first 18 months of his presidency. >> i'd call him in and call him out. >> you can't work with people if you don't establish those relationships. >> some republicans acted shamefully toward this president calling him awful names. at the same time, ronald reagan, fdr, lbj, they use those attacks. ronald reagan, if somebody called him a nasty name, he's -- >> nobody called him one. they were afraid to. >> back to lesley. your parallel between bachmann and reagan. what are we to draw down from that? this is how the conversation

started. >> that, you know, i was having this conversation with john harris in the green room. i think we make a mistake in thinking that the perry's or the b bachmann's can't make it. this is very possible. >> okay. an hour away from the new monthly jobs reports. we'll have those numbers when they come out. >> kelly o'donnell and chuck todd join the conversation when we come back. [ male announcer ] school art supplies, black pants, and a family mobile plan. uh... um... [ bling! ] four score... [ bling! ] ...and seven years ago... [ bling! ] ...i kissed emily costa. ew! [ male announcer ] unlimited talk and text,

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♪ >> after pressure from republicans, president obama moved his big jobs speech from wednesday to thursday night. obama gave in when he realized he could tivo jersey shore. >> welcome back to "morning joe"

from the white house. nbc news white house correspondent and political director and the host of the daily rundown. >> he's so busy. he's a busy man. also in washington, capitol hill correspondent, kelly o'donnell. this is night of a thousand stars. this is huge, all these people we have here. i's so exciting. >> as good as it gets. >> chuck todd, what is the latest? >> it's good. all i know is i got my tickets in the mail. i'm excited. we're going to see actual football. you know what was nice last night? >> what? >> there were football games on. actual football games. the syracuse game goes overtime, it wasn't on any cable.

>> how exciting. anyway, chuck, you are getting ready for this republican debate. harrison is on, you are going to be helping, john, brian, you guys are going to get together to boil down questions. i want to bring up something john harris mentioned and i find it fascinating. my mother, 79 years old, about as conservative as any human being on the planet. >> yeah. >> i would suspect she would be frightened by somebody that called social security, what did rick perry call social security, a violent attack against the most basic american values. fortunately, he wrote it 30 years ago? >> no, no, no, no. it wasn't ten years ago. that's when he was preparing -- >> last year in a book. chuck, how does he get around that? >> not only that, he used a

phrase you will see in tv advertisements, ponzi scheme. he compared social security to a ponzi scheme. he was asked about it and he went ahead on camera. you can imagine mitt romney and stephens over there doing the tv ads saying well now i know which ad i'm running in the florida primary, which may be the primary. if he doesn't within the florida primary, he's not going to win the nomination. as we know, social security is one of those nonpartisan or bipartisan issues. we can have a debate about medicare. on social security a large majority of older republican voters are, they kind of like that ponzi scheme. >> i tell you what, whether you are talking medicare or social

security, good luck saying either one are violent attacks. i think republicans suggest we need to sustain them by going down the growth rate. kelly, this could be a problem if republicans had an election that was attacking social security and medicare. this could make 1964 look like a picnic. >> governor perry will certainly like to say he's a plain spoken kind of southern loving guy who says thing that is come right off his tongue and he doesn't always think through them carefully having spent time with him on the trail. this is hard to come around. this is something he has to answer and position himself in the days and weeks ahead. this is an ideal place. i can't wait to see it. chuck and his team are working hard on preparing this. it's the kind of moment where

you see mitt romney and rick perry in the same venue. we have a chance to size them up in a way we never have before. watching all this, when you have michele bachmann remaining as relevant as she can be. it's an exciting time in this race. this weekend in particular when you will have candidates at iowa, new hampshire, south carolina and all the attention on them. moments that may pop up over the course of the weekend can fuel what happens in the debate. for people who love politics, this is a critical time to be watching. no holiday for us. i'm plugged in all weekend. >> yep. >> talk about the washington establishment. obviously, you have new polls out. i guess gallup put new polls up that showed barry skyrocketed to the top like donald trump did and sarah palin did a year ago. talk about washington

republicans. what do they think of rick perry and what about republicans on the hill? is it a guy they love or a guy that scares them? >> i would say this, joe. look at the primary calendar. rick perry is built to last to make it through a republican primary. you know, the republican establishment may not be able to stop him. when you look at just the order of the primary, the southern shape of the early part of this calendar. we are going to know more potentially this weekend. arizona might decide to move up this weekend. that will trigger a bunch of things. it may not matter what the republican establishment thinks. they are not crazy about it. it's not as if they flock to mitt romney. you know, that's been the problem. he didn't unite the establishment. they view him as okay, yeah, i'd

be okay with him. he could probably help us keep the house. >> you know what it reminds me of? this reminds me of george h.w. bush in 1987 when the republican establishment knew he was next in line, they just couldn't bring themselves to love george h.w. bush. he was a wimp. he is everybody's first husband. remember that one, lesley. the parallels between what people were saying in '87 and romney are similar. >> news week had a cover with his name and the word wimp on it. >> ouch. >> it happened. >> that was 1988, i think. >> 1988, lesley stahl and george h.w. bush go out. lesley has to explain to her mom

what george h.w. bush was talking about. it wasn't animals. >> that's embarrassing. >> it was embarrassing. >> he's a nice guy. i laughed it off. i did. totally laughed it off. >> 12 people may know what we are talking about here. it was a wonderful interview. kell yy o'donnell, what do republicans on the hill think of romney and perry. >> they have a function of kind of giving it a vanilla quality that is not helpful to someone like romney. there's such an expectation that the great surrogate is so likely to do well there isn't as much of a need to ignite the passion at this point. what i hear about rick perry is he's got a story to tell that is compelling.

even if you can poke holes in it. his jobs record is something they like to talk about. the size of texas having been governor of that state. the fearless quality he shows on the campaign trail that may get him in trouble is something people seem to say is the kind of elected quality against the president that people like. there isn't one voice among republicans on capitol hill, but the expectation for romney and the interest of perry. >> thank you. >> a fast one. >> good to see you guys. >> has he completely eclipsed michele bachmann? is she gone? >> hey, i won the iowa straw polls. squash. >> right. rick perry is the front-runner. >> she's nowhere or what happened with her? >> he has more substantial

record to work with. actually, one conversation with him, he understands the economy and business as well as anybody i have met in politics. >> wow. >> i have talked to him about other stuff. i's lethal, but in the area -- >> explain what you are saying. >> social security. >> oh, that stuff. oh! i thought you were talking about donny deutsche. chuck, "the daily rundown" is after this show. the u. >> the u. >> next, how things might have been different if hillary clinton were president. "the new york times" magazine tries to answer that question starting with the fact that she actually knows how washington works. we'll be right back. ♪

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at rockefeller plaza. other headlines utility workers are rushing to restore power.

>> i still don't have power at my house. that's all i'm going to say. 980,000 people still waiting. hit by hurricane irene, of course. the u.s. department of energy says the number is down. connecticut has more outages than any other state with more than 220,000 people, including some people i know, still in the dark. >> seriously? how hard is it? we asked them what to do? get a generator and a lot of hamsters and put them on wheels. we have 1,000 hamsters in the backyard of our second house. >> some of these places, the families dealing with no power but utility companies hired security for employees coming from out of state. they are not the people to blame. the desire is to get people from

across the country. it's not too late. >> they are paying more than minimum wage to the hamsters. >> exactly. >> we are so dependent, 100% dependent on power just to live our lives. >> right. >> when i think about people who haven't had power this long, i wonder how -- i wonder how they are getting -- how they are eating. >> yeah. >> i wonder how they are -- i don't know, even communicating with the outside world. i have a friend in connecticut -- >> i'll talk to you later about it. >> i have a friend in connecticut powering her cell phone in her car. >> how about when the hurricane was coming here. what you said to yourself while waiting to get pb & j what if we don't have power in our home. we travel around the world to see what it looks like. people in this country have no clue what it's like without the

internet let alone power. >> people on the east coast don't have power for a week. >> hamsters are available for rent. >> yes, they are but they are my hamsters. up next, wwhd, what would hillary do? that's next on "morning joe." pack back. host: could switching to geico really save you 15% or more on car insurance?

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hillary. it isn't that liberalism is wrong, we have a lousy leader. >> i bet if people had to do it again, if they had to choice between hillary clinton and barack obama, i bet they are saying today, we should have gone with hillary clinton. >> can you guarantee? >> we have to ask her. we are fairly confident that we need to focus on the task at hand. >> jay carney. why did they do that? what would hillary have done? that's the question increasingly asked. joining us, contributor to the new york magazine, rebecca traister. >> you set it up by saying what so many hillary supporters said,

what if she wins the party's nomination. liberals will hammer her for the next four years. >> absolutely. i was a hillary supporter. i wrote about her campaign. i have written a book about the 2008 primary and my support for her. all the time i think what would hillary have done. i think she was a better candidate. the question itself, the fantasy we would have been happier with hillary as president is a fantasy. i don't think it does us a lot of good. there's so much to talk about. >> why do you think it's a fantasy? hillary actually has been through the health care. she went through it in 1993. she would not have burned political capital for a year and a half that way. >> i agree. that's why i was a supporter. cast your mind to 2008. the things we were yearning for.

the ferocity. she was a company man. she has privilege. she was a clinton. she was going to tear the party apart. those are the very qualities we are yearning for now. if we hadn't had the obama administration to compare her to -- >> are you saying if we didn't have a weak president, we wouldn't know how much we needed somebody with a craven lust. >> yes. >> could you imagine, rebecca, you talk about liberals now reser reversing things. seriously, when you have a weak leader, whether a president or a boss, atake the guy who knows what he's doing. bring him back. you have had a few of those at cbs. so, great ones to follow. >> yes. yes. yes. >> could you imagine what liberals would have said if

hillary clinton had kept it open, tripled the number of troops in afghanistan and launched drone attacks against countries to which we were not at war? >> i can't imagine what liberals would have said. that's why this question gets us nowhere. all we would have heard is we told you so. she would have been compared to barack obama's perfect administration. it was unblemished. >> the overwhelming issue is still the economy. she would have had one person who knew more about how to deal with the national economy. his name happens to be bill clinton. >> i don't like where that's going. >> he understood it when he was president and still understands it. he would have kept that focus without question. >> she would have been able to keep that focus. >> without question. i agree with that. i agree with that. >> her economic expertise and dedication.

during the campaign, she was talking about working class issues and the economy. it brought pandering to a base. >> if the clintons were in the white house, they decided they needed more stimulus money to get the job rolling again, would this congress, would the congress as it is have given them more than obama got? >> hmm. >> a, i believe they would have. the case would have been made differently. b, if you look at that program, almost half of it went to state and local governments. let me translate that. that's to service the public service unions. the core of the democratic party. it did not stimulate the economy. it's why the program was inadequate. >> lesley, we are engaging in fantasy here. i have to say, bill clinton lost one election. he lost in 1978. he learned his lesson. he won in 1980.

bill clinton saw his democratic party lose in 1994 because of what he did in '93. hillary clinton and bill clinton would not have made the same mistakes barack obama made. i don't think he would have had john boehner as speaker of the house because barack obama made many of the same mistakes bill clinton and hillary made in '93 and '94. during that time period, president obama and the clinton people will tell you this, they will still say this, he would not pick up the phone and call bill clinton and say i'm in a bind, what do i do. >> i agree with everything you are saying. it's not just about boehner. everything would have been different. who knows if we would have republican control of the house or not. it's not just boehner. what we have is obstructionist congress, a party that is deeply troubled. a republican party getting in the way of everything resembling

progress. the characters might have been different. the tea party may not have existed. >> mika, i hate to bring this up again. barack obama owned congress for two years. >> he handed it over to nancy pelosi. would hillary have done that? she would have done it herself. >> she would have made errors. >> she would have been up at 3:00 when the phone rang. this is why i supported her. for every mistake she would have made, she so hard. we wouldn't have had anything to compare her to. all we would have heard was that barack obama was the progressive leader. >> what do you mean we don't have anything to compare her to? >> had she been the president and the dream the dream many liberals had, we wouldn't have known that wasn't going to happen. >> can i help you out? >> she needs your help, i can see. >> you're tortured.

i understand you're tortured. i must tell you, i love hillary. i admit it on air, she is my girlfriend. i love her. your problem is you are overly focused with bloggers on the left that would have destroyed her. i think this country would have been better off. but the one thing we do know with hillary as president, the one thing we do know, she would have been savaged by the angry left. they would have cut her to shreds. i think that's what you're focusing on. >> also more voters voted for barack obama. >> stop it. let her speak. >> i wrote a book about my love for hillary. i love hillary. >> what's not to love? >> i wanted her to be the president. i also don't think it's just the liberal bloggers. i think, in fact, you had a party that was swept away by a dream of what barack obama could be, and that was a dream -- he, himself, wasn't advertising himself as the progressive even though he was taking advantage

of the projections of that image on him. i think it would have been more than just a few angry bloggers. >> you're still bitter, aren't you? >> deeply bitter. it's a great characteristic, the angry, bitter, clinton supporter. >> i was just talking -- we have so many friends who still haven't let 2008 go. you know what? i encourage them. i'm with you. >> it was a fundamental moment in our history. it changed so much. of course, we're all still thinking about it. it was one of the most exciting things we ever learned through. >> "new york times" magazine rebecca traister.

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i didn't like cheney when he was a vice president. i don't like him now. and i don't like people that rat out everybody like he's doing in the book. here's a guy that did a rotten job as vice president. nobody liked him. tremendous divisiveness and he's going to make a lot of money on the book. i won't be reading it. >> all righty. >> so "the apprentice" is taking a different turn this year. >> and "60 minutes" this sunday, lesley. >> i have a story i think every kid in the country needs to watch. it's on a program to try to resurrect extinct animals like the woolley mammoth and things like that, also dinosaurs.

totally fascinating. i think people should bring their kids to the set. >> we'll gather around the tv. >> i travel to florida. >> the great woolley mammoth of florida. >> totally fascinating. >> i'll get my family around the tv. i love watching "60 minutes." lesley stahl, thank you very much. keep it here on "morning joe."

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the economy matters. the american people matter. jobs matter. that's what we're focused on. thursday is the day, thursday is the day. we want to give the speech. the president wants to take to the american people. the president wants to call on congress to act. that's what we're going to do. >> good friday morning to you. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. back with us onset we have peter alexander, mort zuckerman, michael crowley, and in washington sam stein joins us. it can't wait, mort, to hear your take on this bank story which we'll get to in a moment. we'll start with jobs as president obama prepares for his upcoming jobs address next week. the white house budget office is releasing a revised economic forecast predicting a declining budget in 2012. according to the study, unemployment is expected to

average at .1% this year and 9% next year. good lord. economic growth was downgraded to 1.7% for this year with a moderate jump to 2.6% expected for 2012. the administration projects that the budget deficit would hit $1.3 trillion this year. that's about 20% lower than the 1.6 trillion deficit estimated in february. house budget committee chairman paul ryan attacked the white house over the report calling president obama's jobs record abysmal. he said, quote, today's report confirms that the president's policies failed to deliver on his promises of job creation, deficit reduction and much-needed economic growth. since taking office, the president's policies have made a difficult situation worse. with the president's jobs speech rescheduled for 7:00 p.m. next thursday, white house press secretary jay carney in yesterday's press briefing would not preview the speech.

there are new reports it could include a national infrastructure bank that would entice private investor to get involved in road and rail projects. it comes as liberal house democrats pressure the president to ignore his conservative critics and take, quote, bold action in tackling the crisis. meanwhile, congressman john larson, chair of the house democratic caucus is expected to introduce three bills today in an effort to shift the focus of the so-called deficit super committee into job creation as well. as its primary mission of deficit reduction. with the speech scheduling snafu behind him, house speaker john boehner is moving on his own address on the economy and jobs. boehner's office confirms that the speaker will deliver his remarks to the economic club of washington on september 15th. let's stop there and pause for a moment. first of all, boehner, i'm not surprised -- they should have their own ideas. i think everybody could bring ideas to the table. mort, first of all, this

infrastructure concept, we don't know a lot about it. but it feels a little tired. >> it may be tired but it hasn't really started. everybody has been recommending this for the last several years. it's one of the best opportunities we have, not only to fix the infrastructure of this country which everybody knows is in very, very poor shape, but it's what we call a job multiplier. that's to say, it doesn't just save jobs, it multiplies jobs. the problem is it's now going to take quite a long time to get under way so the impact on the economy over the next year is going to be quite, quite -- >> i think that's what i mean. it feels as if it should have been launched two years ago. it feels as if -- >> i recommended it at the president's job conference over two years ago. this was something that i spoke with ray lahood, the secretary of transportation, and it just didn't get under way. it's really astounding it did not get under way. >> when you combine that and the fact that most of the other ideas that are out there are hard sells on capitol hill.

people want obama to fix the economy. he's got to find a sweet spot where it's work and republicans in congress are going to accept it. that doesn't leave a lot of room. maybe you extend the payroll tax cut. but that's not a big stimmive push. i think the unfortunate thing here is that housing has kind of fallen out of the conversation. >> i totally agree. >> it's tedious t policy is boring. i recommend to people and i'm not plugging it because i work at "time." we had ideas as extreme as tearing down housing stock in certain areas, just writing off a lot of houses that are just in foreclosure and not going to be turned around soon. i think it would be great to see the president obama a little more about housing. to me to some degree this speech is somewhat missing the point. the crucial point right now. it's getting the housing market back in shape is the way to get the economy back in shape. >> easy to monday morning quarterback for sure and criticize from the sidelines, sam stein. but it feels like housing has

been missesed for years now. housing could have been kind of a cornerstone for the economy. >> it's a weight over the head. at any moment we could have another quasi housing crisis. what we're getting from the white house in terms of hints about what this speech is going to have in store, a lot is infrastructure. a lot is construction. there are construction jobs ready to happen right away. i would quibble with one thing i think in terms of infrastructure. the stimulus that they passed actually included historic investments in infrastructure and in high speed rail. it clearly wasn't enough. there's a $2 trillion hole in infrastructure right now. i think what we've seen on the news with these images from hurricane irene up in vermont especially, are the facts that the roads and bridges we have are just old and need to be repaired. as mortd notes correctly, there's a great multiplier effect to that. one other thing i quibble with, i don't think the president needs to go there and figure out what he can get passed through

congress. i think this is one of the instances where he has to build the case for what he wants passed through congress. he has to not only deliver a speech, but campaign on it after he delivers it. >> it's fairly simple. people that own small businesses are afraid to hire one or two employees. you multiply that a million times over, you're going to have a bad recession. the second somebody thinks, you know what? my credit has loosened up. i think we may be able to drive demand a little bit, i'm going hire one person here. whether you're talking about 1984 or whether you're talking about 1991 -- i remember in realtime talking whether it was my parents or other small business owners and them saying, you know what? i think things are starting to pick up. i'm going to hire one person and i'm going to invest a little more in the business. listen, i'm not knocking the infrastructure projects. i agree. i think we've got a huge housing

crisis. until housing turns around, nothing else is going to matter. >> why not attack housing? >> there's an underlying problem. there's an underlying problem, and it is a problem the president has and it may not be fair. but a lot of final that run businesses in the united states of america are afraid of what this president may do over the next year and a half. you know what? they're afraid this congress and this political system is not something that they can bank on. there are sometimes -- washington thinks it's a lot more important than it really is. but mort, as far as business goes, so many people are frozen in place. >> right. the greatest job generator in the economy are small businesses, not large businesses. i agree with you completely. they're primarily dependent, though, on the consumer and consumer confidence crashed. if you look at the two major

surveyors of consumer confidence, they are 20% below where they have been even during recessions in the past. so the consumer is bummed out, and for good reason because they're worried about their own incomes and employment. we have a huge unemployment factor which affects consumer confidence. without consumer confidence you not going to get consumer spending. >> mort, you have have been on the front lines of american capitalism for decades. tell me what changed between 1984 and 1984? what changed between 1991 and 1992? what changes between every recession that seems great and quick recovery? >> this is a very different recession than any of the ones we had before. >> like nothing you've seen. >> totally different recession. it was caused by a huge financial crash, and that financial crash has wiped out a lot of value, whether it's home values, whether it's business values, whether it's net worth. that has caused a lot of people to cut back. secondly, we've had the worst unemployment that we've had since the end of world war ii.

the real unemployment number is not 9.1%. it's 19%. when you get to the people who have been out of work for six months or longer, you're talking about an unemployment factor we haven't seen since the great depression. >> underemployed as well. >> absolutely. >> mort, just to explain again, as a businessman who has been in this for a long time, this isn't the cause of a specific barack obama policy or a specific george w. bush policy or a bill clinton policy. i know a lot of people don't like to hear this because it's not simple. this is a much larger structural crisis for this country, is it not. >> yes. you're absolutely right. we somehow or other in a way that is almost mysterious ended up in this huge financial bubble in particular that affected housing. housing went berserk in terms of the number of people willing to buy houses. >> they were offering deals that they just couldn't refuse. that were too good to be true.

>> people thought that housing prices which had never gone down year over year since the end of world war ii were going to continue to go up. everybody was caught up in that. that is what caused -- finally, the bubble burst. >> here we are. the agency that oversees fannie and freddie reportedly taking aim at 12 of the nation's biggest banks in the wake of the housing crisis. news today according to "the new york times" which says the suit accuses the banks of misrepresenting the quality of mortgage securities sold during the height of the housing bubble and seeks billions of dollars -- >> wait, i'm sorry. fannie and freddie is doing this? can we just stop right here? >> the agency that oversees fannie and freddie. >> when is washington, d.c. going to go after fannie and freddie? you can put up these private banks all you want to. this has been such a scam for the past three years that everybody has had a target on their backs except for fannie and freddie who have been

mismanaged, have been corrupt. >> the agency that oversees them. >> you know what? they should investigate fannie and freddie. >> federal housing finance agency. >> this has been a corrupt agency for years. you talk about corporate mismanagement, but it has survived, and i will say it here, just one guy's opinion, it has survived because their biggest -- the person they contributed to the most over the past five, six years, has been barack obama. >> got to hold the banks accountable, too. >> not just fannie and freddie. >> while we've heard, michael, and it's been from the left, you can't blame this on fannie and freddie. i've been hearing that for three years now. first of all, you can blame this on fannie and freddie, first of all. secondly, even if they're equally to blame as everyone of these big wall street banks, they're the only ones that have

been protected. we have reform for the banks. why don't yes have reform for fannie and freddie. i interrupted michael. >> first, i don't think a lot of banking executives have played a personal toll beyond the losses they incurred from the financial crash. it's not like people are going after these bank executives. there's almost no personal accountability in the private sector. we can have a long debate. i can't cite chapter and verse to you but that fannie and freddie were a small proportion of the problem. it's overstated. >> it's not overstated. the. >> the best data shows that in the subprime mortgages show they were not the main offenders, not that they were scot-free. >> you can go back to 1999 and read "new york times" articles -- it started a process. it lowered banking standards. guess what? after they started it, the

private banks rushed in. everybody rushed? >> i've got to jump in. gretchen morganson wrote this book called "reckless endangerment" about fannie and freddie that supports everything you're saying. they lowered the equity requirements to as little as 3% or 4% of the housing price because everybody assumed housing prices were going to be going up. when it went down, the ek tip was wiped out overnight. it wasn't the only thing. it was probably as important as any other factor in terms of the housing crash. >> again, a lot of people get angry with me, sam stein, when i talk about republicans as well as democrats. they talk about false equivalency. listen, it was barney frank and a lot of democrats in 2003 that were calling republicans racist for trying to -- certain republicans racist for trying to raise standards, saying they hated poor black people and that's why they were trying to put tougher standards on fannie

and freddie. it was a limited few. you had republicans going around, a lot of them, and the president, talking about an opportunity society. everybody wanted everybody in houses. this was a conspiracy of a lot of people in both parties to lower standards for fannie and freddie. the question though is when is the left going to give up on protecting fannie and freddie and say go after them? >> i'm not privy to what's going to happen with fannie and freddie in terms of dealings on capitol hill. with respect to this "new york times" story, if you read between the lines, this does seem like fannie and freddie's federal overseer is trying to protect the taxpayer from losses and going after the banks as part of it. i think it's fair to say the banks disguised some of the assets they were selling in the forms of securities and they probably should be forced to pay for that. the problem here is it's not really helping the homeowner. the homeowner who is probably under intense pressure could use

a principal reduction. this does little for that. we have to wait to see what the 50 attorney generals are doing. they're also probably going to try to bring some sort of financial relief to the homeowner. but this is just about sort of trying to figure out who gets which package of money? >> a long process to get there, too. coming up, new research reveals the impact of the debt ceiling debate n our nation's psyche. former presidential adviser mike mckinnon details the political fallout. we'll talk to eugene robinson about his new column in "the washington post." we're minutes away from the new york jobs report. first, let's go straight to todd santos with a check on the forecast. todd? >> thanks, mika. keeping a close eye on tropical depression 13, could be tropical storm by later today. here is a quick look on the radar, bringing showers into the northern gulf coast. that will be one of the biggest threats, rainfall from the system over the next couple

days. not much motion, when you look at this from monday, tuesday, wednesday, some areas in through southern louisiana with over a foot of rain. friday's weather looking good for all your travellers. we'll have more coming up. you're watching "morning joe." (announcer) everything you need to stay balanced on long trips. residence inn. i know you're worried about making your savings last and having enough income when you retire. that's why i'm here --

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i think the economy is clearly going to be a major problem for him going into this election campaign. i think the american people recognize that the policies that he promoted when he first came

to office, idea of a stimulus package and so forth, clearly haven't produced any significant results. we needy think to adopt an aggressive growth policy that promotes the expansion of the private sector and the creation of wealth, creation of jobs, creations of opportunities for people. so far he hasn't been able to provide that. >> there's something sad about a president this ineffective. he sent out an e-mail last night to his supporters that i got a copy of entitled "frustrated." he explained how frustrated he was. and i thought, there are 14 million unemployed americans. there are another 11 million who have underemployed or had dropped out of the workforce. i wish he could reach beyond himself and figure out how frustrated 25 million americans are with this lack of leadership. >> beautiful live look of the

nation's capitol. joining the table, former advisor to president george w. bush, contributed torp to "newsweek" and "the daily beast" and koe founder of "no labels" mark mckinnon. >> this is exciting, two days in a row. >> who is in washington, peter? >> i own the place right now, hold down the fort. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" -- >> let's talk about your column in "the daily beast." >> big mcinturf came out with amazing research that shows the consequences of the debt ceiling debate that has had on the american psyche and the economy. if numbers show that it joins the iraq invasion of kuwait, hurricane katrina and 9/11 in terms of its impact on what's

happened. part of what's happened, it wasn't just the outcome, but the way it was handled that people were responding to. they've completely lost confidence in government. and as a consequence, the economy as well. the consumer confidence index has dropped 15 points in just two months. listen to this. the average consumer measured consumer confidence when they win is 95.9. when they lose is .4. the index today is 55.7. >> gene, it is a curse on both houses. i don't know there's ever been an opportunity for an independent candidate to drive through this gaping hole in the middle of the american electorate that we have. i know everybody in washington is cynical, very cynical about the possibility of independent candidates winning. you're talking about it a couple days ago. the situation is much worse today than it was in '92 when ross perot did as well as he

did. >> well, i guess i'm kind of cynical about it in that it just doesn't work out for third party candidates. but it is a kind of unique situation with the president's approval average on real clear politics yesterday was 42% or something like that. congress was at 12.3%. so this wholesale loss of faith and the ability of government to delivery think is real. it's interesting that congress -- of course which usually has lower ratings, seems to have suffered even more than the president. so who knows what's going to happen? >> one thing, mark, that we should touch on as far as the president's approval ratings go. if he's at 42% in the popular vote, electorally, it's much

more than that because he drives up huge margins on the coast. but in the swing states that's length, florida, ohio, pennsylvania and in all of these swing states, virginia, that he won before, he's just not doing as well. >> the consumer confidence index has to improve by 23 points just to hit the average of the losers. let me touch on eugene's point which i disagree with. it's unconventional wisdom we can't have a third party candidate. the reason it hasn't happened before is you had to have $1 billion. in 1992 ross perot very possibly would have con that election. there's an organization called americans elect that's going to be on the ballot in all 50 states. anybody can nominate anybody to be on that ticket. get your dream ticket, simpson-bowles, mitch daniels-joe lieberman. jack welch-david petraeus.

in this argument, if you have ballot access in all 50 states, they're going to come. people talked about people from the private sector coming up. howard schultz, the ceo of your sponsor is speaking out. no labels is sponsoring a conversation with him next week where he'll talk with america about bringing jobs to america. there's a lot happening out there. this is a different dynamic. i know people are talking about people like him stepping for barred from the private sector because government and government officials can't handle it. >> gene? >> i think if americans elect want to build a party, want to build a movement that is sustainable, that is broad-based and can elect a president, they should get at it. but i don't think they're going to do it in a year. i really don't. >> you don't need a party to do it, you just have a ticket. it's a unity ticket. >> that's what the founding fathers thought. they thought you didn't need parties. they didn't like parties.

they were factions. they should people should just run. it doesn't work out. it helps to have a party. >> just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen now. >> i've got two words for you -- >> we've never had a black president before and we have one now. a lot of things that have never happened before, it's just because they haven't happened. >> mr. negative today. >> this one, i'm not seeing it. >> wait. they're going to nominate you. >> i've got two words for you, gene, hope and change. anything is possible. you've just got to believe. >> and sometimes that hopey changey stuff works out for you. >> i'm just surprised given what gene wrote in "the washington post," it's called "bad mem wrees," the bush administration took reagan's tax cutting government starving philosophy too far. today's republican party takes it to a rigid absolutism that would be comical if it were not

so cons quengsing. perhaps they're cynically trying to keep the company in the doldrums through the next year to hurt obama's chances of re-election. i worry that their fanaticism is sincere, that one of our major parties has gone completely off the rails. if so, things will get worse before they get better. having bush and cheney reappear is a reminder to step back and look what obama is up against. you might want to cut him a little slack. >> really? >> well, we get caught up in whether the speech is on wednesday or thursday. we talk about because we're into the back and forth and how things get done or don't get done in washington and who supp and who is down in politics. there's a larger context here, a horrific economic situation. and even a worse fiscal situation and a political situation in which one party

is -- the opposition party is determined to thwart for identical reasons anything the president is trying to do. that's -- we need to remember that context. >> gene, isn't there, also, a larger context that the united state citizens may have just elected a president that was not ready to run the most complex economy in the world? you're focusing on the republicans, and yes, we all focus on the speech, but isn't the larger context not the speech or the opponent of the president but the president himself and whether he knows what to do in this time of crisis? >> well, this time of kras sis. the president takes office, the financial system has collapsed and, in fact, we are on the precipice of something akin to a great depression.

in fact, he averts the great depression and the word stimulus has become a dirty word. in fact, it does keep us from falling off the cliff. we now enter a sour and unsatisfied factory recovery, and i put that in quotes because it doesn't feel like a recovery. but, in fact, the bleeding in terms of hundreds of thousands of jobs being lost every month and foreclosures on every block, the bleeding has been stan ched. maybe could have come in and also gotten the economy revved up and roaring. but i think it is more probable that this the a different kind of recession. and i wonder who could have done

better. >> all right, eugene. thank you. >> hopefully the president is up to the task. the american people don't believe the republicans or washington is up to the task of getting this country running. >> they've lost confidence in not just the president, but government. >> gene robinson, believe, my friend, believe. >> hopey changey. >> all right, gene, thank you. have a great weekend. if august jobs report is out in just minutes. we'll have the new numbers when we return.

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35 past the hour. >> we've got breaking news on the august jobs report. it is outs. cnbc's simon hobbs is at the new york stock exchange and holding that report with his quivering hands. tell us, what's the rate? >> for the first time since 1945, last month in august, the economy added no jobs at all. we knew that it was going to be bad because we knew that employers would be reluctant to take people on because of the

fight over the downgrade and sell-off problems we had. we did think we might get 75,000, 80,000 jobs created even then. just to repeat, no jobs at all were created in august. there is a one-off effect insofar as the verizon workers were out on strike. that's made the figures look bad by about 45,000. but it still isn't a good reading, guys. >> you said the first time since 1945 that no jobs were added? >> reporter: yes, that the government has reported zero change. it doesn't necessarily mean -- they're revising down what we had, the job growth by a little bit for the previous two months. i would say although the situation is bad, we're going to lose 200 points. every thursday we report the number of unemployed gained each month. that is quite at that time tick at 400,000.

i'm trying to do a glass half full scenario in an requirement which clearly isn't good. it is not good we didn't create any jobs in august. but the environment was so poor. the question is, once we removed those august factors, will you get a rebound in the second half of the year, and we're back to the discussion that we've had so often. >> let us hope so. simon, thank you for trying to keep the glass half full. mark mckinnon, bleak numbers. >> really bleak. this echoes what bill mcinturff, he said this is not an independent event trichb only by economic reality. the sharp drop in consumer confidence is a direct consequence of the lack of confidence in our political system and it's leaders. it's not just the economy, but it's our political system. this is a reflection of the debt ceiling consequences. >> simon, obviously mark mckinnon reading polls that show that the american people were really shaken by the debt crisis

and washington's bungling of it. how much of an impact did that have on investors on wall street? is there absolutely no confidence in washington, d.c.? >> reporter: certainly, if you look at the polls, the confidence is very low. now it's up to obama on thursday to come back with his jobs plan. he thinks he can create, he says, a million jobs by ensuring the payroll tax remains low, we get an infrastructure bank. even the fact that the date of that had to be switched from wednesday to thursday because he and boehner had a bit of a bustup about what was the right date, doesn't instill a huge amount of confidence. the fed is still standing by. data like this, and they said they'd have a two-day meeting in september. they're extending that meeting because they're going to have a central bank seminar where they look at what they can do. this does raise the prospect, we assume that there may be some form of quantitative ease zg,

and there are various ways to do that. that's probably a conversation for another time. ironically later in the day you may see that the market rallies, that bad news becomes goods because the feds may attempt to inflate the money supply and gold rising as a result. >> simon, thank you so much. >> have a good weekend. >> you, too. up next, for music lovers? >> mark is here, i'm here. it's going to be great. >> you need to stay. "rolling stone" magazine shares with us its ultimate album-by-album guide to the beatles. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] this...is the network.

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♪ if you want it here it is >> this week "rolling stone" magazine is all about the

beatles. the cover story on the private life of george harrison. the magazine is out with a special edition of an album-by-album review of the entire beatles catalog. with us is contributing editor for controlling stone magazine, alan lite. i've read almost everything, and yet i've learned a lot. one of the most fascinating things i've learned is george martin who was there from the beginning of the studio, it even took him about three albums to figure out. and halfway through recording the third album he said, wait a second, these guys who started as a good band have turned themselves into a great band. even george martin -- you see this evolution as you go album by album by album, and it clicks. >> what's really striking when you do it is just the speed that it all happens, the speed that

each album happens, they cut "please please me" in 12 hours. that was the whole thing. >> by the way, can you believe that, mark mckinnon? you've been involved with music before. usually you don't get a kick drum these days, a kick drum sound gated in less than 12 hours. they recorded an entire first album that still holds up today in 12 hours. >> i remember when "meet the beatles" came out and i played "i want to hold your hand" 1,000 times. these guys did so much before they got in the studio. years and years and years and years of practice. it doesn't happen like that anymore. >> the first few records they went in and played their set. they were ready to go. everything was in place. >> alan, that's another thing i was reminded of again, ha the beatles didn't just fall out of the sky, they honed their craft in hamburg, they worked 24 hours

a day on taking speed -- by the time they had a chance to record in 1962, they were a battle-hardened band unlike any other band. >> and they were able to maintain that. the first albums basically up through "rubber sole," they were knocking a couple songs out, go back on the road. these albums were monumental historic records. we've got six et a couple songs and then we've got to get off to the next show. it wasn't until "sergeant pepper" they went into the studio to make an album. everything before that, it's all on the fly and none of it suffers from that. >> the most stunning thing, look at these numbers, sergeant pepper on the starts 175 weeks. "the white album" 155, magical mystery temperature 91 weeks.

the most remarkable things that you really understand by reading this is what they did in two years. two years that a lot of rock critics overlook. 1964 and 1965, the number of albums they put out, the number of songs they wrote, while, as this book explains, while beatlemania was going on, it's never been duplicated. >> they're grabbing ten minutes on a bus and writing "day tripper," writing songs that would live forever. but it stays like that. you forget the whole thing is eight years. >> it wasn't a one-trick pony in terms of the sound. it evolved over time and adapted and different changes. different years with completely different sounds. it's amazing. >> we have in here, we were saying, these appreciations for each album. we had a different artist talk about that album. we have james taylor, bob wear

from the grateful dead. >> what do the guys have to say? what influences do they find? >> james taylor was signed to apple records at first and actually made his first album during downtime on the white album. he talked about what it was to watch them work and what it was to -- i think what everybody says is you would set your expectations for perfection and then they would surpass them. he was talking about, we're waiting for the next record. you'd wait and then it came and it was "sergeant pepper." and they were already at the top. they just kept pushing themselves farther and farther. that's what separates them from everybody else. >> what's your favorite story in here, what you didn't know before this got put together? >> i wrote a couple of them so i got deeper into researching

those. for me it was that it gives you new appreciation for some of the smaller records. we know what "revolver" is, but to look at in between "hard day's night" and "help" they knocked this thing out. then you look and you see they did "i'm a looser" on that record. lennon starting writing these kinds of songs that nobody had written, these kinds of exploratory songs. this is a throw-away record and it breaks that kind of ground. it makes you appreciate those a little more. >> it's fascinating, the thing about beatles for sale that i've been fascinated about, it's sandwiched between two great albums, it's always overlooked. you look at these faces and these at the time boys in the early '20s, and yet they were already tired, it suggested the direction they were going to go in the future.

it was going to be introspective and write songs like "i'm a loser." >> it's all happening, one goes straight into the next. it's not a surprise, but how each one kind of seeds what the next one -- where it's going to go to that you can start to tease it out. >> let me ask you an impossible question. what's your favorite album? >> different answer on a different day. "revolver" to me is the most perfect. >> what about you? >> i bounce back and forth from "revolver" to "the white album." that's definitely the song i would take to an island if i could only take one. >> which one do i put on the most is "the white album." "revolver" in terms of the full range of everything they could do, absolute peak of their game and pushing the hardest. >> i would be "abbey road" favorite. >> "abbey road."

>> alan light, thank you very much. more "morning joe" in just a moment. ♪ [ mrs. davis ] i want to find a way to break through. to make science as exciting as a video game. i need to reach peter, who's falling behind. and push janet who's 6 chapters ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] with interactive learning solutions from dell, mrs. davis can make education a little more personal. so every student feels like her only student. dell. the power to do more. and i saw another store's ad for these crayons at a lower price. no problem -- i can match that right here. oops -- i don't have the ad. you don't need it. oh, what about a coupon for these pens? yeah. easy. why does the glue not stick to the glue stick? well, it's very complicated, but it has to do with oxygen.

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after pressure from republicans, president obama moved his big jobs speech from

wednesday to thursday night. obama gave in when he realized something important, he could just tivo "jersey shore." he didn't have do watch it live. president obama labor day weekend plans number ten, unwind after his two-week vacation. number nine, have barbecue with the guy that forged his birth certificate. eight, flip through gadhafi's sexy photos of condi. resist cigarette cravings by shewing a charcoal briquets. number five, grill up some of michelle's kale paste. she promotes healthy eating. update his resume. number three, hillbilly hand fishing. number two, pretty much whatever the republicans tell him he can do. the number one labor day weekend plan, sit around bond fire

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way a real man asks a woman, the love of his life, his future lovely bride to marry him. >> spend the holiday weekend with me. i'll teach you a couple things. >> look at that shot. it's beautiful. >> beautiful allison. this is nice. i love her very much. >> what have you learned? >> i was supposed to talk about a big daddy mac and cheese patty. denny's announcing the new sandwich right here. your breakfast of champions. 1700 proud calories. you get a burger patty layered with slices of cheese, macaroni and cheese, another layer of cheese, tomato based frisco sauce and buttered up potato bread. there are french fries if you're into it. >> let me ask you something, do they also provide a diving board so i can take a dive right into that thing? that sounds splendid, almost heaven. >> i learned that ceo