he died fighting with a union for rights in memphis. this morning i was with the machinist union in florida. we must come together and remember those that built this country and those that fought for those that work in this country. we may not always agree, but we're all trying to build an america for everybody. happy labor day. but don't take labor out of the day. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. have a great holiday weekend. "hardball" starts right now. republicans versus president obama. is it personal in let's play some "hardball." good evening. i'm michael smerconish in for

chris matthew. john boehner's refusal it allow wednesday jop speech is more than just the latest example of republicans just saying no to anything. anything president obama wants. what seems obvious is that republicans neither fear nor respect this president. it is not clear all of them even consider him to be legitimate. is it personal, political, in some cases racial? what can the president do to turn this around or push back hard? that's our top story. also, rick perry is about it feel the heat. >> rick perry doubled spending in a decade. and this year, rick perry's spending more money than the state takes in. covering his deficits with record borrowing. >> that's not from the dnc. that's from michele bachmann's pack. the word is that sarah palin is about to good after perry as well. it is not easy being a front-runner. speaking of feeling the heat, eric cantor is getting it from all sides. democrats and republicans alike are taking it to cantor for

insisting that fema money for hurricane irene victims has to be offset by spending cuts elsewhere. in today's employment report, no new jobs created. reminding everyone how tough times are. as we head into labor day weekend, some say let's remember who got us here, the two guys who have been on tv much of the week. bush and cheney. finally, let me finish to note with the catch 22 of the republican party. anyone conservative enough to be nominated might be unelectable. and even moderate enough to be elected can't get nominated. we start with the disrespect shown towards president bam. roger simon from politico and ron reagan is a political commentator. gentlemen, i want to show you something from the new york times that ran today. it says this --

ron reagan, a lot of it comes from the territory. but did your dad ever have to face anything like what president obama has been through since day one? >> no, there were certainly acrimony, as there is under any president, but not to the level we see today and not with the tone of disrespect that i think we see today. i mean, i'm astonished really by the level of pettiness on the part of the republicans and again the tone that they take. this starts, of course, some of of the right-wing radio who virtually call the president boy. sometimes literally call him "boy." which is pretty offensive right there. but it trickles down to the elected officials. you know, shouting, "you lie kwts during presidential speech is a pretty good example of this. no, it was not like this during my father's administration. >> what amaded me throughout this time period are those who openly pray for, request that he

fail. all the while congratulating one another for their relative level of patriotism. >> they have made this quite obvious. mitch mcconnell said from the outset, job one for republicans, is getting rid of barack obama. you would think they would be interested in national security or improving the economic picture but apparently it is all about getting rid of him. this is virtually unprecedented. >> roger, another terrific piece pour politico. you say the administration didn't think boehner's snub was a trivial matter. here is what your source told you. it is a big deal that house said no to the president. from our end this confirms what we all know. they will do anything in the house to muck us up. perhaps i was read toog much between the lines. but i said to myself if roger simon had that highly placed source and got that scoop, the white house wanted people to know that they were po'd.

>> sure they did. they are starting to identify villains. you go back and you look at president obama's speeches about congress, he never uses the word republican. he says congress hasn't does this. . congress has been ineffective. congress refuses to pass my plans. he zpt mean the democrats, he means the republicans. but he is very consciously trying to be bipartisan. and i think some in the white house, perhaps with his permission and finally decided it say, look, bipartisanship is not working. will not work. it won't help the countries. it won't get you re-elected. and it is time to say, look, it's the tea party who is frustrating us. it is boehner and cantor who are refusing to deal with us fairly. it is ultra conservatives who are frustrating the will of the people. and i think they are beginning

to get in place their talking points for the 2012 campaign. >> we are having this conversation about the climate that exists right now with regard to the president, given those jobs numbers, that came out or lack of jobs numbers this morning. my suspicion is that his opponents now field em boldened to go further in this regard. >> oh, i think they will. i mean, you know, when you have mitt romney sort of really tearing them up today. and romney is by far, not the worst person or the most vicious republican in the field. quite the opposite. but they all feel that they have a wounded president, a vulnerable president. and all they have to do is twist the knife a little more to bring him down. i think they are underestimating just how good a campaigner president obama was last time. he beat hillary clinton and she was pretty tough to beat. but i really think that they

believe they almost cannot lose. >> and i want to make clear, i thought the atmosphere that surrounded president bush's administration at the end got way too nasty. but some specifics of the sort of thing we are talking about on president obama's watch, here they are. remember the infamous outburst from representative joe wilson when president obama was speaking before a joint session of congress about his healthcare plan? it was this. >> the forms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegal. >> "you lie." >> that's not true. >> here is another one. earlier this summer, representative dug lan born had to apologize for the president for what he says on a local denver radio program. >> even if some people say the republicans should have done this or should have done that, they will hold the president responsible. now i don't want to even be associated with him. it is like touching a tar baby and you get it, you know, you are stuck and you are a part of the problem now. >> here is another criticism of

the president with congressional debate on the debt ceiling this july tp requiring the representative serving as acting speaker to admonish fellow republicans. >> despairaging remarks directed at president of the united states are inappropriate. >> only one more, because of time constraint. not that we don't have more examples. but joe walsh who accused the president of lying and being idiotic, in a tweet says he wouldn't be a prop for the president. he would refuse to attend the president's job speech then then defended his position with martin bashir. >> i believe that he is sort of abusing his position here. >> he is abusing his position? >> yes. there's no reason for him to call a joint session of congress, martin? my lord. we reserve that for heads of states from dignitaries around the world. presidents in moments of crisis. >> mr. walsh, this is a moment

of crisis. >> this is political exercise. this is political theater. this president respectfully has made a career out of simply giving speeches. >> hey, ron reagan, why does it go not? it goes on because it works. i had jon huntsman on my program today. he can't break out of the pack? why? because he thinks bran barack obama a good guy. he disagrees with him but thinks he is a good guy. >> when barack obama was identified as a muslim terrorist or something, he says, no. i just disagree with him. many think that any democrats who is in the white house is by definition illegitimate. there are republicanes who feel entitled to the white house i get a cheel every time i hear

president bam say bipartisan. what is the bipartisan promize to, i would like it have a nice jobs program from america because we have a real unemployment program, to we don't want to do anything to help the economy until after 2012 because we are only really interested in detroying you. where is the 50-yard line between the two positions? i can't find it. >> did you get any indication from your source at the white house with regard it their response at this behavior that there will be a change in the president's demeaner? or did they give you the story today because they want people to know, we are drawing the line in the sand? >> i can't say for sure as to the president. i think his staff is tired of what has been going on. and would like to see, not just his staff, his democratic base would like to see tougher, barack obama. now that may not be in him. he didn't run a very mean

campaign in 2008. he ran a good campaign. but it wasn't mean. maybe he is going to have to get meaner if he wants to win in 2012. because he certainly doesn't have the economy on his side any more. >> when you study ron reagan, those numbers about the president, while his disapproval rating is at an all-time high, when you look at cross tabs, you see that many americans continue to like, believe he is a very, very decent individual. i'm not talking about the hard core opposition that will never be dissuaded from that opinion. i guess my question is, does he run the risk of alienated those people who like him at his core, even if they disagree with his politics, if he changes his demeaner. >> i don't think so in this case. what rother is suggesting is true. he needs to be stronger. people vote for the guy, i go or woman, would they respect. what is not happening here is president obama is not getting the respect of the republicans. if he needs to make them fear him in order to get them to respect him, so be it.

then he needs to do that. but he needs to be much more direct about what he wants to do and be very clear about what their agenda is, which is not good for america. at least until after 2012. these people are actively trying to stop him from helping the economy at this point. he needs to make that clear. and he should start in a speech before the joint session. >> a far cry we are from that scene that you have discussed and written about where tip o'neill comes to pay respects at your father's hospital bed. which is really distressing. >> yes. can't see john boehner doing that fob barack obama. >> thank you, men. appreciate you being here. a schedule reminder now. republican presidential debate at reagan library will be here on msnbc next wednesday at 8 p.m. eastern. join us thursday night for the president's big jobs speech, that's at 7 p.m. eastern. coming up, rick perry's disdiscover rg the flip side of beg a front-runner. attacks from begun and not from

democrats. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] this is the network. a network of possibilities... ♪ in here, pets never get lost. ♪ in here, every continent fits in one room. it was fun, we played football outside. why are you sitting in the dark? ♪

[ male announcer ] in here, you're never away from home. it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. talk about expectations and confidence in the economy. technically we're not in a recession. but try telling that to people who are suffering. a new out today says that eight of ten americans believe it is recession and the survey of the roc poll think the recession is serious. the poll shows that democrats want the president to focus more on creating jobs while republicans want him to take care of deficit reduction. no surprises there. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." it's becoming an old story. texas governor rick perry leads the pack of republicans for president. 's in a new fox poll, he's well ahead of challengers. even when you only poll for

candidates who officially announced they're, when they're running, he still remains number one. but here's the new story -- with that front-runner status comes something else. criticism. tea party favorites michele bachmann and sarah palin are both launching attacks on perry. perhaps they feel their appeal slipping as they try to appeal to the same crowd. the president of the bernard center for women politics and public policy and both are msnbc political analysts. i've got to show you this. a pro-bachmann super pac called keep conservatives united. keep that title in mind. keep conservatives unite. >> yeah, right. >> started running an attack ad against rick perry in the early voting state of south carolina. here it is. >> rick perry says he's one tough ombre on spending. >> number one is don't spend all the money. >> but what's his record? rick perry doubled spending in a decade. and this year rick perry's

spending more money than the state takes in. covering his deficit with record borrowing. and he's supposed to be the tea party guy? there is an honest conservative, and she's not rick perry. >> not surprisingly a perry spokesman pushed back saying "governor perry is a proven fiscal conservative having cut taxes, signed six balanced budgets and led texas to become america's top creating state. and bachmann's front-group ad is patently and provably false." if i'm mitt romney i'm loving this. what i was hoping for. >> yes. we'll talk about mitt romney's attack on rick perry, too. mitt romney would want sarah palin fumy in the race. right now rick perry has leapfrogged over mitt romney. front-runner status. he is the tea party candidate that's getting michele bachmann

and sarah palin worried, and it's worrying mitt romney, because he thought he would have already won tea party votes. if he gets in the race, sarah palin shooting at each other with that saloon music behind him. i love that in the ad, it's going to help mitt romney. he'll get the non-crazy republican vote, which is not a majority but maybe a plurality and enough to win the contest. >> it suggests the debate next week, maybe the fireworks will really begin? >> i think the fireworks are going to fly. it will be very interesting to watch the dynamic between the candidates, particularly the male/female dynamic. this is still new to us. hillary clinton and sarah palin on the ticket in 2008, and then this year going forward for 2013 12. it will be very interesting to see how the males and females relate to one another in the debate and quite frankly interesting to see how rick perry does bp i suspect he's going to do very well if he is your cup of tea and pun is

intended there, if you can get it, hombre. put it if he is your cup of tea, he's folksy, articulate, he's a good campaigner. people seem to really, really like him. as soon as he entered the race, he just jumped ahead of the entire pack, but then the question is, even if he's a tea party candidate, the big question is, winning the primary is very different than winning a general election and all of this, i think, personally goes to the benefit of mitt romney. >> if i can add, michael. right now the idea of rick perry is what's polling well. >> yes. >> he hasn't campaigned much. he hasn't had a single debate. he's done well in politics. he's, you know, political juggernaut down in taxes. on the national stage, he could welf up. he still that a way to go -- remember fred thompson. >> a lot of time on the clock. >> you mentioned male/female concept. a report this weekend in an iowa speech, "palin will lean on

loaded phrases like crony capitalism and permanent political class in laying out her view of the u.s. political system's deep-rooted ills though she will not call out perry by name, her rhetoric will leave the attention she may soon draw more overt attention to one of the texan's potential vulnerabilities. call me a sexist. i i thought what motivated her on the bus, she couldn't stand michele bachmann getting all the spotlight and notoriety. for her now to go after perry if in fact she does it that will be a surprise to me i. disagree with you. i won't call you a sexist. i can understand how you'd make the connection, but i disagree. personally, i feel that sarah palin has always been motivated by the same things that motivate male politicians. >> what? >> it's power. power. power, power, power. and look at all -- >> money. it's money, money, money power.

>> look at all the money she's making. sarah palin -- for the people who members of the tea party, they love her. they feel that the earth oui revolves around sarah palin. she didn't possibly win a general election f. it were about power she would have kept the job she had and continued to serve in that regard. >> isn't she more powerful, frankly, running or not running, whatever you want to call it she's doing, on a national ticket, rather than being governor of alaska? she's got a national voice now. >> right now she has the power of celebrity which is the no the same thing as the power of government or politics. i will say this about sarah palin. when she attacks being part of the permanent political class, she has lots of standing because she left that before her job was even over. >> let me ask, we love playing palintologists. trying to figure out what motivates her. is it possible what motivates her is because she regards herself as the mother of the tea party movement?

>> and the queenmaker. >> the idea the support from the tea party could so quickly go to rick perry a newby in this regard, she can't take that? >> there's a poll out today on another network, which will go unnamed that says that 71% of republicans, of republicans, do not want her to run for president. >> but it doesn't matter. >> it doesn't matter to her. >> it doesn't matter. >> she can get in the race and see her standing even with the tea party folks fall, which would be less money and maybe less power for her. >> this >> this divide and conquer. she will split the tea party vote, and all of this will be wonderful for mitt romney. >> listen, dick cheney weighed in on sarah palin on the laura ingram program and here's what he had to say about the former alaska governor. >> well, i've never gotten around to question of her having left the governorship of alaska mid-term. i've never heard that adequately

explained, so that i could understand. >> confusing. >> that first term, she decided to step down, and still be -- i'd like to know more about that. >> i never understood it either. >> no one understood it. actually, i can give you weren't very, very simple explanation. she left so she could earn a lot of money, and that's what she's done. she's been highly successful, when it comes to pocket change in the purse, but, you know, for a politician, for someone who maybe aspires to be the leader of the free world, she does have a lot of explaining to do that goes beyond the power of the purse. >> after she left, one reason she gave, in an interview was, that the media attacking her all the time, it was lard to do her job. so it was better for the people of alaska for her to leave. what would that say of her being a presidential candidate or the president? you don't think the media will take a few shots at you? it showed a real lack of spine, a misjudgment.

i don't think she's ever recovered from it, except when it comes to her bank account. >> absolutely. >> it will be interesting to watch all of them, but in particular, i'm watching mitt romney next week, because if there are fireworks between, say, bachmann and perry, then he can sit back and allow them to do his dirty work. but if they don't if they dough pawlenty in the debate, then he's going have to step up and bring the lumber, or it's going to continue to be rick perry. >> michael, he may not have to do it just yet. he can wait to see how perry does in the first debate or two, but pretty soon, if there's no change here, and he's in second place, he's going to have to take him on directly, which means taking on the tea party. >> david corn, thank. michelle bernard as well. appreciate seeing both ever you. up next, michele bachmann is joining the ranks of another famous historical figure. according to her that is. it's in the "sideshow," and you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

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welcome back to "hardball." time now for the "sideshow." first up, it's common for gop candidate michele bachmann to invoke classic american heros to inspire audiences on the campaign trail, albeit with a few history snafus along the way. yesterday bachmann dug into her history grab bag and pulled out a heroine. >> both ronald reagan and margaret thatcher, military greatness of the nation during a consecutive time period. we're in a similar time period and we need strong, viable leadership to see that return again today. both with military and with our economy. they're both tremendous examples. >> the iron lady, margaret thatcher.

who knew bachmann was getting at something much larger when she described her own titanium spine as part of an interview a couple weeks ago? next up, the struggle to be first in line does not end in elementary school. arizona governor jan brewer is considering moving up her state's primary to the end ever january stepping on the sensitive toes of traditional early voting states, like iowa, ne carolina, which ard their early positions like the family jewels. well, let the race begin. what can south carolina gop chairman have to say about brewer's intentions? i don't care what date they pick. we're going to jump them. we're going to be the first in the south. one group that dreads this game of leapfrog, the media. reporters would prefer not to spend christmas and new year's in iowa and new hampshire away from their families. now, for the big number. we the people. that's what the white house is calling a new feature on its

website that allows individuals to create and sign on issues important to them. it if with 30 days a petition reached a certain number of signatures, the white house guarantees that policy officials will then review and respond on the topic. so what's the magic number of names to a petition to garner attention? 5,000 signatures. quite a bit of legwork in 30 days. 5,000 signatures. that's tonight's big number. up next, house majority leader eric cantor is catching it from both sides now for insisting that hurricane disaster aid be offset by spending cuts elsewhere. so i'm glad it's with fidelity.

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here's what's happening. the rain is falling in new orleans as tropical storm lee chugs across the gulf of mexico. it is expected to dump 20 inches of rain along the coast tp it looks like the rain will not reach the drut draut and

wildfire strait of juan de fucaen texas. hurricane katia bends towards the u.s. but it is not clear if it will make land fall here. a dramatic reversal. a strict new clean air regulation is stripped. shutting down the main highway are los angeles to las vegas at the start of the holiday weekend by a wildfire. lawsuits are filed against some of mer can's biggest banks accusing them of misrepresenting their mortgage backed securities. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." house majority leader eric cantor had the democrats an irresistible issue saying money to pay for hurricane irene would

have to be offset by spending cuts. listen to cantor earlier this week on the fox news channel. >> this is a time in an appropriate instance where there's an appropriate federal government role. those monies are unlimited and we've always said we've offset that which has always been funded. just like any family would operate when it struck with disaster. it finds the money it needs to take care of a sick loved one or what have you and finds a way to go without buying a new car or put an addition ones house. >> democrats seized on those comments. >> suggesting cantor is heartless since he asked for aid wound offsets, but now seeing it as bad policy and bad politics. joining me to talk about this, democratic congressman frank of new jersey and roll call associate eder christina belentony. i'm envious of brian williams. this would be a great debate question to ask next week at the reagan library of the gop candidates. do you agree with what you just

heard in that sound bite from congressman cantor? >> that's exactly what the democrats are hoping will end up happening. they want to sort of push a divide between house leadership and cantor and obviously speaker boehner and the republican governors who asked for aid. the biggest difference, chris christie from new jersey really talking about, we need aid no matter what happens. but i think it's important to point out that cantor's office has spent multiple times saying, of course he would support this. he was talking hypothetically. there hasn't been a request from the president yet, and walking that back a little bit. of course, the democrats are wanting to use the earlier statement and wants everyone to cover it. and to drive this wedge within the gop. >> it makes sense. we shouldn't spend that which we don't have. i don't think americans want to hear that relative to fema while americans are flooded and without power and suffering? >> exactly. that's the key.

allowing the additional process when we have disaster aid, an emergency appropriations bill which appropriates the money without going through the regular budget process so it immediately goes out to the states and people in need. he has not indicated he's willing to do that and i think he's indicating just the opposite. that's not what we do. when we have a disaster, we don't hold the budget process hostage, if you will. we say we're going to do an emergency appropriation. we're going to get that money out right away and that's what we're going to demand, and the fact he does, may not be willing to go along with that is pretty tragic, given the need. >> here comes now the politics associated with the issue. the democratic congressional campaign committee that challenged 25 east coast republicans whose districts were hit by irene to stand with cantor or to publicly oppose him. an example. congressman scott rigell stand against the republican leader eric cantor's outrageous position that hurricane irene disaster relief cannot be funded until after house republicans

make draconian spending cuts to things like -- now demanding more spending cuts before ensuring fema can act. christina, seems that's going to be a successful political strategy? >> maybe. i wouldn't necessarily say that immediately. part of it is the press release has to be happy. this has gotten a lot of coverage today. you already have congresswoman a republican from new york, that's already said, she would not support this if it weren't for certain offsets. most of the other republican members of congress are waiting back and seeing. this is an area where cantor specifically can sort of have his cake and eat it, too, more than likely, congress is going to approve disaster aid for this major hurricane, which has caused so much damage across the east coast, and rivaling costs of some other very major, major tragedies and so i think congress is going to ultimately approve this and cantor's

district could benefit from the it, but he may not have to vote for it. >> i don't think cantor can stand to be seen as being on the opposite side of the fence from the governor of your state. the republican governors had already expressed displeasure with the plan to offset disaster aid with the budget cuts, and here's governor chris christie earlier this week delivering what seemed to me to be a message aimed directly at what we're describing? >> want to figure out budget cuts, that's fine. you're going to turn into a fiasco like the debt limit thing, fighting each other for weeks and you expect the citizens move state to wait? they're not going to wait and i'm going to fight to make sure they don't. >> your thoughts on the governor's comments? >> he's pointing out this should bypass the regular budget process. i mean, keep in mind that under bush the republicans never asked that in an emergency that we not go ahead and bypass the regular budget process and have these offsets.

also, the war. during the republican -- during the bush administration, afghanistan and iraq, they were all financed through emergency appropriations along with disaster aid. so the idea that we should wait around until the regular budget process and have offsets, we've never done this before. we always you know, even in the case of the war, certainly in any disaster, we always said we're going to do an emergency appropriation, and that's been the precedent. so i think now what's happening is that cantor has gone along with the tea party agenda. which basically says there's no role for government. why do we have to do anything special in this case? and that's not what we do. we have to get this aid out to the people in need. >> christina, i think this issue transcends typical rs versus zs. let me show you. a "usa today" editorial saying it would indeed be unconscionable to hold up aid for victims of hurricane irene for compassionate reasons and it adds up to just a tine fraction

of federal spending. the bigger question about cantor's pay as you go approach is why he picks fema to make the point which much more costly items, wars, the congressman mentioned, health care and tax cuts to name a few, routinely get a pass and not just from democrats. >> yeah. this is why i would venture to say this aid will ultimately pass and i think it's an interesting example how gridlocked congress is. even arguing about this when it's probably something the majority of congress would support and could probably pass quickly as the congressman pointed out. it shows the tea party has an element of this. they are clamoring against spending. they say it's too much. they're already trying to petition this new deficit committee that's going to start meeting later this week. next week. and that is an issue where it's very difficult for anything to get done when you have so many competing pressures. >> thank you. thank you both for your time. appreciate you being here. coming up, why the re-emergence of former president

bush and his vice president dick cheney might be a good thing? this is "hardball," only on msnbc. at exxon and mobil, we engineer smart gasoline that works at the molecular level to help your engine run more smoothly by helping remove deposits and cleaning up intake valves. so when you fill up at an exxon or mobil station, you can rest assured we help your engine run more smoothly while leaving behind cleaner emissions. it's how we make gasoline work harder for you. exxon and mobil. a network of possibilities... ♪ in here, pets never get lost. ♪ in here, every continent fits in one room. it was fun, we played football outside. why are you sitting in the dark? ♪ [ male announcer ] in here, you're never away from home.

it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. less than a year after they began distributing private government documents to select media outlets wikileaks today published its entire collection of secret u.s. diplomatic cables without redactions. more than 250,000 cables, the entire cache of files downloaded illegally from the government files are now publicly available and searchable online. the cables consist of private communiques between state department officials and political officers in embassies around the world. we'll be right back. my name's jeff.

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of course, a lot of you guys in the limelight -- colin powell, condoleezza rice -- talking, this is like your family. does it bother you? 3. >> no, i'm glad members of my family are giving their version of what it was like to serve our country. i did the same thing. i put my version out there. eventually historians will over and draw objective conclusions. >> that was former president bush on "fox and friends" yesterday, and here's one of the examples of the family feuding he was talking about. this is former vice president cheney talking about condoleezza rice admitting allegedly that he'd been right about how to handle fallout from the infamous 16 words the president spoke about iraq and uranium in that state of the union address. >> she came into my office, sat down in the chair next to my desk and tearfully admitted, i had been right. was she crying?

>> she was tearful. that's what i wrote. if i'd wanted to say she was crying, i would have said she was crying. >> you know that tearfully is a loaded description for powerful women in high office. it's going to be seen by a lot of people as provocative. could you have left that word out? >> it is an accurate description of what happened and what i saw. >> rice fired back yesterday in a reuter's interview saying i don't ever remember coming to the vice president tearfully about anything, in the entire eight years i knew him. "washington post" columnist eugene robinson writes there might be a bright side to the re-emergence of our president and vice president for democrats's in today's column he says, thank you, george w. bush and dick cheney to remind us how we got into this mess. it doesn't happen by accident. welcome, eugene robinson ,and executive editor at politico.

i guess the point you're making. eugene, to the gop base, they're thrilled to have them back. >> great. i'm not sure that independents are thrilled to have them back. i think democrats probably are thrilled to have them back. look, one figure that's been pretty consistent in polls is if you ask people about the bush administration, who's responsible for sinking the economy, for example, they say it was george bush. they don't say it was barack obama. so from the democrats' point of view, the bush administration coming back, i think, is all for the good. >> jim does that get tired between now and 14 months now on election day? does what gene just said, will that remain true through november of 2012? >> it could remain true. i don't know if it's that relevant to elections right now.

i think president obama's issue youiess are his own standing. that's what he has to deal with. when you think about cheney and bush you have to put them in two different categories. cheney certainly re-emerged. he has a book and the same fighting spirit of a year ago. president bush has been very careful to stay out of political fights. he's re-emerging after these interviews around 9/11 and that's probably all you'll hear from him. i've talked to many republican whose would love him to do fund-raisers, speeches, writing letters to get small donors wa. he wants to disappear from the national stage. >> you don't think he will in 2012? as i'm thinking about this, i'm reminded of being in minneapolis/st. paul in '08, was it hurricane gustav all of a sudden hit part of the country and president bush didn't speak at the convention, and the reason that i bring it up is one wonders what role president

bush, vice president cheney will play in the upcoming election. gene, what thoughts do you have? >> i don't expect president bush to play a huge role. certainly, he may at some point say he supports the republican nominee, if, indeed, he does support the republican nominee or want to give that sort of support, but as jim said, he's been quite carefully to act ex-presidential and to kind of keep his distance from politics in that way. >> jim, you remember the debate issue -- pardon me, the convention issue that i raise, because it was an easy out, frankly, it was a storm, a bad storm, but it was also relieving of a burden the gop had at that time, because his numbers were terrible at the time. >> right, i think what's different now is that republicans actually would like him around whereas in 2008 they probably did not. he has not rehabilitated his image, but you've seen a slight up tick and his plan from the

beginning is i'm going to disappear from the national stage, i don't want to be in politics and he authentically does not want to be engaged, and over time history will make his judgment. heck, he said that when he was in office. cheney's handled that much differently. when doing his book, he went silent for a little while, but at points in the presidency he's made strong charges and strong defenses of the bush policy, particularly on terrorism, and done it because he wants to pick a fight and believes very str g strongly in the righteousness of what they did while he was in office. that's what the entire book is about. >> i think you're right, they need to be perceived separately. my perspective, seems cheney relishes the fight. seems to me he's having the time of his life. >> he does relish the fight, although i'm not sure why he's picking on condoleezza rice in

that way. i know condoleezza rice, it's hard for me to imagine her going tearfully to dick cheney on anything on earth, hard for me to fathom, but i find it interesting he's not just selling scores with his political opponents in the other party but with his fellow cabinet members in the administration. >> your column concludes, you might want to cut him a little bit of slack. >> yeah, you know, look. we have a big thing on whether the jobs speech will be wednesday or thursday, it's a legitimate story, but keep in mind there is a larger context here. there is a situation the president, not just inherited, but still exists. practical economic collapse and we should just keep that context in mind as we cover the day-to-day back and forth of

politics. >> my hunch is your column is a preview of coming attractions as to what we'll be hearing in the next 14 months. in any event, thank you both, when we return, allow me to finish with the complexity of the jon huntsman presidential campaign.

let me finish tonight with a word on the candidacy of jon huntsman. so far the utah governor, former utah governor, has run a textbook campaign, unfortunately, that textbook is a guide to competing in the general election, not the primary. everything that establishes him is nothing to the conservative base that dominates the gop base. a candidate as qualified as huntsman has yet to earn 4% in any national poll is pure proof. huntsman is smart, graduated from the university of pennsylvania, has executive experience as serving as the immensely popular -- he was just 32, and yes, given the volatility and emerging super

power in the far east, hundredthuntsma huntsman's time as ambassador to china is a liability. his aim of conservatism went out long before that of sarah palin and christine o'donnell. defended compromised plans to raise the debt ceiling and would like our troops out of afghanistan quickly. he believes in evolution, calling it "part of god's plan" and thinks michele bachmann's promise to lower gas prices under $2 a gallon isn't reasonable. and similarly less than serious. he would rather cut tax rates for individuals and corporations and simplify the country's tax system, and by the way, "the wall street journal" deemed his economic plan certainly better than that of his presidential peers. he regards his opponents as all good people, imagine that, and worst of all to