next on "msnbc saturday," storming the coast.

tropical storm lee makes its move, but is it as bad as forecast? also ahead, tears and fears. millions of unemployed americans running out of benefits and out of patient. will the president's job plan offer hope? it is steer crazy. a pinlt-sized motorist at the wheel. her parents along for the ride. good morning, and welcome to "msnbc saturday." just past 11:00 a.m. in the east, 8:00 a.m. out west. let's get to what's happening out there. breaking news this morning with tropical storm lee growing stronger and bringing torrents of range to the u.s. gulf coast. it's expected to make landfall on the central louisiana coast later today, and then it's expected to turn towards new orleans. right now the city of new orleans is under a tornado watch, and the town of la feet in jefferson parish is under a mandatory evacuation order. now parts of louisiana and florida could see 20 inches of rain this weekend. weather channel mike seidel's in new orleans with more. good morning. >> reporter: hi, alex.

a break in the lashing rain and gusty winds most of the morning in the big easy. we're right on the mississippi river. we have a chop out there. right now light rainfall, but this morning it was raining at 1 to 2 inches an hour across metro new orleans. north of here up north of lake pontchartrain in lifg ston parish, a town called walker has flash flooding. a gauge up there reporting 4 inches of rain in two and a half hours, and south of here, some mandatory evacuations in the lay of little feet. that's in jefferson parish because of rising water from all the rainfall. some of the totals may up add up to 15. right now we're getting a bit of a dry punch into parts of louisiana, so that's cutting back on the rain. as you can see here, a little bit of light rain right now. we will get more bands through the big easy, and we'll get more wind gusts probably over 50 miles per hour. we've seen that this morning. power outages increasing.

they have tripled through the morning hours according to the major power company jumping from 9 to 30,000 customers with these winds. that will take out power, but the city is fine as far as flooding in most cases. we've got localized flash flooding, but as far as a major flood, the pumps, the 24 pumps fully operational, back upped with generators. they can handle bouts of heavy rain as long as we get breaks. we're not getting the rainfall rates needed to cause water to back up into the streets in new orleans. as you know or may know, this city is under sea level. we have a slow-moving tropical storm near the coast. it will make landfall later today or tonight and jog northeast bringing necessary and needed and wanted rainfall north and east of here. birmingham, eventually atlanta and nashville will share in tropical moisture into the first of next week. alex, back to you. >> thanks. too bad you didn't get some rain to texas there. let's go to bill karins in studio. where do things stand right now,

bill? >> things are good. this is a tropical storm. it's a big inconvenience and costing millions of dollars in tourism from new orleans along the gulf coast over the labor day holiday weekend. as far as damage from this storm and life-threatening weather, there's not a lot with this. we have a threat of downed trees falling on houses or cars or people, but it shouldn't be too widespread. it shouldn't be making landfall in the next hour or two. everywhere in the orange has a chance of tropical storm-force wind s. if we're getting trees falling and power outages, it will expand along the coast and northward. we have our tornado watch, but mike said we haven't seen many tornadoes and hopefully we won't have any. the worst of the weather isn't in louisiana. it's about to move on shore in coastal mississippi and alabama especially through the mobile bay and pensacola and panama city. the rainfall totals, a lot less than previous. the reason is the storm is

moving. it's actually heading to the north now at 5, 6 miles per hour. a little faster speed means that the rain bands won't sit in the same spots. alabama has a chance of a good 4 to 8 inches but at most 10 inches. i don't think we're going to see the historic rain totals of 15 to 20i6r7b inches. as far as the forecast updated, they're tracking the remnants of lee on tuesday. it will track over the southeast bringing beneficial rains to georgia. we'll have to watch the appalachians in straz and west virginia. things are looking okay once we move onshore. here's your forecast for the labor day weekend. the heavy rain in the deep south looking okay on the east coast. chicago, st. louis and kansas city, watch out four thunderstorms with a strong cold front through the northern plains. all that moisture gets caught up in the cold front. look what happens on sunday and into monday. the eastern seaboard gets the rain. alex, it will be interesting, and we could see the worst flooding from lee in pennsylvania, new jersey, and

vermont, the areas soaked by irene, because they get a lot of rain monday into tuesday. >> no thanks. i hope that's not true. >> this is a big difference, alex. the south can deal with this rainfall. the mountainous areas in the north just can't. >> we will get another look with you in half an hour. thank you, bill. one of the biggest problems following hurricane irene is the massive power outages nearly a week after the storm hit. fewer than a thousand homes and businesses are without power in vermont but moving to connecticut, 123,000 are still in the dark there. the state's utility companies think it will be down by 100,000, moving to new jersey maybe 25,000 remain without electricity. 154 homes without service, and then to new york 97,000 are still connected which including 66,000 on long island and 29,000 in upstate new york. road access continues to improve in several vermont communities that were literally cut off by tropical storm irene's floodwaters, but one

official said it will be years before the preflood conditions. many residents are relying on help from their community. >> we're altogether. we're holding up all right. >> we have a lot of nice friends who offer us showers and we can't really complain. >> no matter what it takes, everyone wants to help and wants to get together. >> we're live in ludlow, vermont. i think things are tough but it helps when your neighbors are around you working together. there's a great deal of that in ludlow but all over vermont. we are main street ludlow and people cope fairly well. people are in better spirits, and here's the thing a short time ago we heard that the national weather service is the flash flood watch for ludlow and for many of the other towns that were just absolutely hammered by

irene about a week ago. ludlow and 12 other towns were completely cut off for about two days. that's because there were 260 roads badly damaged. they were scores of bridges that were washed away, and again, word that we're going to probably be seeing a fair amount of more rainfall over the next few days and that's exactly what people who live here do not want to hear because the rivers are so swollen. the folks who really don't want to hear it are the workers who have spent the better part of the past week repairing those bridges and roads. not just the workers here pitching in, lots of neighbors helping out as well. >> i was listening to vpr on the way down. they were talking about the vermont way is to not see yourself as a victim but to pick yourself up by your bootstraps and move ahead. that's exactly what people are doing. not seeing this as, you know, a huge obstacle they can't move, but obviously with many hands

make light work. that's exactly what i see going on here. >> reporter: back live at main street on ludlow. some signs that things are starting to get back to normal. you have to wonder, alex, things okay now 24 hours from now, 48 hours from now when the rains come back. keep in mind the flooding they stay in vermont last week. the worst flooding in 75 years. just as they start to pick themselves up and dust themselves off here in vermont, more rains are comes. >> i didn't like what i heard from bill karins from those folks. craig melvin, many thanks for live reports throughout this morning. speaking of this morning the president is urging lawmakers to work together to create jobs and avoid political posturing. this thursday the president's weekly address calls on congress to cleanly and quickly pass a

transportation bill that employs thousands of construction workers. >> there's a lot of talk in washington these days about creating jobs, but it doesn't help when they risk losing hundreds of thousands of jobs because of political gamesmanship. we need to pass this transportation bill and put people to work rebuilding america. we need to put our differences aside and do the right thing for our economy. >> joining any now nbc white house correspondent mike va khaira. good saturday morning. >> good morning. >> how is the president framing this big debate leading up to thursday? >> reporter: he's giving hints about proposals he puts forward to the joint session of congress. a very rare obviously state of the union style speech. probably the most con speck with us venue he could have chosen. in the past frankly you heard about infrastructure spending there, traditional projects like roads and bridges and thinks of that nature. he was talking about a highway bill stalled in congress. the president is likely to talk

more about those projects spending billions of dollars on those in an effort to stimulate the economy. he's talking about expending the payroll tax can you tell and moving it to the employer side and gives tax credit to employers who hire people unemployed. the news yesterday is horrible news. the unemployment rate at 9.1%. a problem for the 14 million americans out of work and looking for work. a political problem for the president, and that's what you have seen him do over the last couple of days. try to to shift is over to republicans in congress, sort of running a campaign that harkens back to 1992, is the economy stupid and in 1948 when president truman ran against congress. you'll see them play out over the kours of the months. a republican from southwestern virginia struck a lot of familiar republican themes in his response to the president this morning. >> the president's stimulus

spending has proven counter-productive. government has gotten in the way when it can be part of the solution with millions of americans still asking where are the jobs, the president should lead a bipartisan effort to remove government barriers to job creation. >> reporter: the president spending the weekend in camp david tomorrow and he heads up to paterson, new jersey. we saw reports about problems that continue there. he will survey a lot of flood damage. in between you can betts the president is preparing for that big speech thursday night, alex. >> you can bet. coming up, the politics of getting america back to work. also ahead, airing it out. liberals fume after president obama decides not to toughen air quality regulations. it's a lumbar alert about a back-to-school hafrdz for some children. stay with us. you're watching "msnbc saturday." ng a heart attack. it's my back. no, this is new bayer advanced aspirin... clinically proven to relieve tough pain

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tropical storm lee has strengthened as it beginning unleashing rains over southern louisiana as well as the northern gulf coast. this storm could bring 20 inches of rain to some areas providing the biggest test of the levees since hurricane gustav in 2008. president obama is stunning liberals and environmentalists on friday by halting a plan for stricter air quality regulations. it would have tightened it, which would have cost $90 billion. what frustrated members of the base is he acted without working with the environmental protection agency. a politico argument says the epa was completely blindsided by them. jake, good morning. >> good morning, alex. >> all year long the president

has been fought these accusations of caving to republicans. did he give in here, or was this an economic decision? >> probably a little bit of both. i mean, this is part of an overarching narrative over the last two years, three years, that the president gave too much to the center, and gave too much to republicans dating back to the government shutdown debate when he cut billions of dollars from cherished programs that democrats love to the debt ceiling debate where he -- john boehner, the speaker of the house, said he got 99% of what he wanted. groups like move on, liberal environmentalists won't vote for somebody like rick perry or mitt romney. it's really all of a bunch of noise. they can stay home, and that's the real concern for the obama administration. >> of course, yeah, if you have this level of apathy there. this is what the director of move on said. many move on members are wondering if they can work for president obama's re-election or make the case for him to their neighbors when he does something like this after extending the

bush tax cuts for the rich and giving into tea party demands on the debt deal. what do you think the likelihood is of them just staying home? they're not, as you say, going to vote for rick perry or mitt romney or somebody else from the gop side. >> the excitement of the election year when presented with these two alternatives, a democrat or republican, a lot of folks don't stay home. this is not going to get better very quickly for the president. he's giving the speech next week, and this is -- the republicans in the house and senate have been talking about cutting back on regulation all year. so this is kind of part of that narrative, too. next week he's giving a speech about jobs where he's going to talk about things that democrats like and talk about stimulus spending and infrastructure investment. he's going to also probably nod to some of these things that republicans like. payroll tax cuts, which some democrats don't like. >> do you think that that then helps him in a general election? he appeals more to the middle?

who else is the way lefter is going to vote for? maybe they don't vote, but they won't vote right. >> absolutely. that's the hope he does enough to show i'm a guy that gets something done. imt not going to pander to either party but get the economy back on track and moving again. republicans, the tea party folks, again, as you noted, aren't going to vote for president obama either. so it's a strategy that, you know, a tried and true strategy of tacking to the middle, being someone that can get something done, but with near 10% unemployment it's still a problem no matter what he does. if that unemployment number doesn't come down, it will be problem if he attacks the center or not. >> okay. thanks so much. >> thank you. in a moment when hitting the road becomes child's play, but where the parents or better yet where are the cops? are you kidding? do you know how old this girl is? stick around. you're not going to believe it. you're watching "msnbc saturday." >> so, ah, your seat good?

got the mirrors all adjusted? you can see everything ok? just stay off the freeways, all right? i don't want you going out on those yet. and leave your phone in your purse, i don't want you texting. >> daddy... ok! ok, here you go. be careful. >> thanks dad. >> and call me--but not while you're driving. we knew this day was coming. that's why we bought a subaru. but it's our job to make them say something interesting.

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today i'm back with my favorite team. ask your doctor about symbicort. i got my first prescription free. call or click to learn more. [ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. a new video posted online is drawing shock, even some confusion today from people asking, how did she do that? this incredible footage shows a young girl in china driving a car along a busy stretch of motorway. her parents are apparently in the back seat filming her as she calmly navigates traffic. michelle is in london with more. good morning to you, michelle. some story. >> reporter: somebody posted this video to the internet in china, sparking all kinds of angry reaction there. when you look at this driver, she could be one of the best on the road in, say, miami. the thing is she also looks to be no more than around 4 years old. along that mind-numbing commute,

imagine this little character pulling up alongside. it's confident like zia zhang taking on the highway in china. in sweater, pigtails and a sedan. she is very intent on the road ahead, that she can barely see above the steering wheel. speeds up, passes other cars, c concentrates, and not to be slowed down she skillfully steers into a better lane. finally you hear, stop the car. let daddy drive. you see him get out of the back and she puts what looks like a pacifier in her mouth. dad pulls something up from the pedals, possibly an extension she can reach. sure enough youtube is littered with parents letting their kids have a go of all kinds of

things. cheering them on. off-roading to australia to 8 years old. here's a kid with an ak-47. big hug. a 3-year-old learning, and you know, way too many toddler who can barely walk are smoking these days. here's one having a beer in a bar. >> kids are not action figures or toys, and adults put them in situations because it's for the fun of it. >> what some parents find hilarious. the mom who videotaped her 2-year-old daughter smoking pot got charged with a felony. this daughter of this guy quite the led foot at age 7 apologized for letting him drive after police launched an investigation. as stellar a motorist a 4-year-old can be, maybe not the

best idea to proudly share with the rest of the planet. some people think these videos look sort of fake. the child may be sitting on mom or dad's lap, and in most of them the parent is right there. in others, not so much. we do see online now little kids and toddlers using guns, drugs, and motor vehicles. >> thank you very much, michelle. sarah palin returns to iowa for a big mid-day tea party rally, but she have a surprise in store for her hawkeye state admirers? we have the report ahead here on "msnbc saturday." hires another, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them

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surf and rip currents forcing the closing of two beaches. 6 to 8-foot waves are pounding the coast damaging a wooden boardwalk and some steps at dana point. also in so cal parts of interstate 15 closed and more than 1500 homes are evacuated because of a fast-moving wildfire covering nearly two square miles. it's already burned two mobile homes and it's about 20% contained. overseas, slow-moving typhoon talal has made landfall in southern japan. it has brought heavy rain to much of the country. in chile an air force plane crashes off the pacific coast. a news anchor was among 291 people on board. all are still missing, and those are your fast five headlines. back to the breaking news, tropical storm lee slamming parts of the gulf coast right now with fierce rain and biting winds. we'll go to bill karins for the latest on that.

we'll go back there. >> the worst we heard about is power outages from downed trees. so far so good there as lee moving onshore in southern louisiana. it's actually these bands of rain far to the right of your screen which pose more of a threat right now to mobile especially, a really nasty thunderstorm right through the mouth of bay. pensacola, those storms are knocking on your door shortly. that's the worth of it. in louisiana i think a lot of rev h heavy rain shifted north of i-10. in new orleans you've probably seen the worst of it. overall for new orleans it hasn't been that bad. you can see all the green on the map. look at bright yellows and oranges to the eastern half of the gulf. that has to move northward. we got the new advisory at the top of the hour on the hurricane that doesn't even look like a hurricane. you can see it at the bottom right of your screen. it's a borderline hurricane/tropical storm. it will go in between bermuda

and the bahamas. that's going to be the trick, where does it go at the very end of the forecast? does it move up to the north towards new england, maybe nova scotia or hook back out to sea? as of now five days from now all land areas are safe, but the swells from that begin to arrive on the east coast. we're staring at our computer models and we like what we see at the end, alex. the trend over the last 24 hours is to take this hurricane away from the east coast, which is good. we see large waves, but it does not look like a direct hit at in the time. >> we're going to see power utages. about 35,000 customers already without power from tropical storm lee resulting in that. it's there in the louisiana coastal area. thank you for that, bill. to politics now. in less than half an hour a tea party rally kicks off in iowa where sarah palin will speak. she made a surprise stop at an iowa restaurant last night where a conservatives for palin meeting was under way.

listen tor her reception. joining me from indianola, iowa is alex. good morning. >> reporter: i'm great. >> i'm glad i'm not standing in the rain. you heard it there, up run, sarah, run. do you think she'll talk about a white house bid today when she speaks? >> reporter: it's doubtful that she's going to announce a bid today. that's what we're hearing, but that did not prevent hundreds of supporters from driving all across the country to hear her speak. earlier i talked to a few supporters, and here's what one of them told me. >> i would vote for her. i voted for her with john mccain. she's the only person i've ever voted for. i've never been able to trust government. i don't feel they're trustworthy, and the only one i feel you can really trust. >> reporter: sarah is supposed to take the stage about 2:15

eastern time. a lot of people are still here to see her. we expect more to come. hopefully the rain holds out, and it is pouring right now. we'll see what she has to say possibly speaking about obama and maybe some of the other presidential candidates. we do not expect her to make an announcement she will run. >> alex, were she to get in the race, how much longer does she have? there are legitimate deadlines to meet to register herself as running for the presidency? >> reporter: that's right. she would have to absolutely get in before the end of october. that's when some of those filing deadlines for some of the states are going to take place. what she has told a lot of people is that her drop-dead date personally is the end of september. so we do have a couple more weeks to see if she gets in. we probably won't see her announced today or maybe not on monday at new hampshire at another tea party rally. >> okay, thanks. get out of the rain. appreciate the live shot.

be sure to tune in wednesday night, nbc and politico team up for the next republican primary debate. brian williams will moderate that debate from the reagan library along with john harris. that will be wednesday at 8:00 p.m. eernl rigastern liter orig msnbc. progressives are urging the president to go big, and the labor secretary says the plan includes bold ideas. what will the president be able to get passed? joining me now is d.c. bureau chief is robert trainem. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> when progressives talk about going big, what does that include, and does that mean big spending? >> i think in some cases it might, alex. obviously, one of the things that folks talk about is an infrastructure jobs bank, something that really will put people back to work.

another thing that they're talking about is tax cuts for small businesses to hire employees. that would cost -- all of this stuff costs money. i think the other part of this, though, alex, has to be a program where you set the deficit reduction on a clear path. i think the president is going to follow on a series of jobs proposals with the grand plan to bring down that deficit by $4 trillion inside of the decade. so the question, though, as you say, is what can get passed and i think that's the real tough one. >> if the republicans reject the job creation plans, they could be saddled with blame for the weak economy, or do you not see it that way? >> yes. look, that's the president's strategy. i think the president is going to try to once again knock on bipartisan's door, if you will. if, in fact, that door gets slammed, he's going to say, yet again, i'm trying to bring

this -- move this country forward and work with republicans and yet again they slam the door not only in my face but in bipartisanship's face. that's the overall theme of what the president is running on next year, running against on a do-nothing congress. truman did that in 1948. he's going to try to paint this running against washington and the republican partisans, if you will. we'll see if, in fact, that actually works. what republicans will say is, yeah, we're stopping president obama in his tracks, and the reason why is because we've given him three years of trying to fix the economy and nothing has worked. so you better believe we're trying to stop this, because we don't believe in the direction where he's taking the country. zee >> peter, do you think the president is raising the stakes by convening this jointd session of congress? can he deliver on all these heightened expectations? >> he has to do this, alex. the fact is that the president was instrumental in stabilizing

the economy with the bailouts to the -- they call them bailouts, but the loan programs to the auto companies with the stimulus package, which prevented the loss of even more jobs. what he's saying -- what he will say is, look, we've had 18 months now of private sector job growth. not anywhere near what we want. not anywhere near what we need. washington has to fix the problem, and he has to show real passion in this speech, alex. he has to raise expectations but also raise his passion level. i mean, people right now, they respect his cool, comedy meern, but what they want is someone who is out there really fighting for them. >> you know, robert, in terms of the fighting, though, the president has been fighting. he's faced constant opposition, the latdest saying eric cantor says the hurricane irene rechef should be offset by budget cuts. today's gop gets what it wants to threaten to hurt america if

its demands aren't met. that happened with the debt ceiling fight and now over disaster aid. in effect, cantor and his allies are threatening to take hurricane victims hostage using their suffering as a bargaining chip. will republicans block anything the president proposes? >> yes. here's why. back to peter's point a few moments ago in terms of passions. what republicans see and smell is blood. they see a weakened president and have seen it time and time on again on everything from gitmo, on everything from the health care issue as it relates to the public option. time and time again this president has went up to the door and said, you know what? i want to work in a bipartisan way, but i'm willing to negotiate on x, y and z. republicans have pushed back and won every single time. you see an emboldened republican party not because of what the democrats say. they're emboldened because the president has caved on many

issues. what you will see this time around is republicans say we're more irene relief and making sure that our fellow citizens out there have the resources we need, but we have to pay for it. >> part of this to robert's point quickly is this is too much about politics and not enough about people. the cantor xarchl is one that really amazes me. told is a story about the republican governor of virginia requesting $39 million in federal aid. eric cantor is saying no. you're not going to get this aid unless we find the money from someplace else. well, you know, i'll tell you, you can't have it both ways. they want to have it both ways, alex, and the president should call them on it and be tougher. >> okay, guys. thank you very much for the chats this morning. appreciate it. >> thank you. enjoy your saturday. as millions of american children head back to school, safety experts are concerned about the burden of backpacks. when is the load too heavy for your child? we'll look ahead on "msnbc saturday."

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breaking news on tropical storm lee inching closer to the gulf coast. the storm's outer bands are slamming southern louisiana and parts of northern gulf coast with rain right now. for alex. . rning, this . 10:00 tonight for includes baton rouge,

tornadoes. video from the morning. you have trees down and energy tee is reports 37,000-plus customers without power. the french quarter is packed this morning now that the rain is backing off, but a lot of people are walking around and doing what they do best in the french quarter.

stem. some of rtheast. g talking about. >> thank you. ckpacks. they're a staple of going to school, but in 2001, 7,000 children went to the e.r. with backpack-related injuries. david dr. david bornstein is the author of "back in control." dr. bornstein, with a very good

morning to you. i'm curious how serious an issue this is, because i don't remember it being such a problem when i was a kid back in the dark ages. >> it is a problem now, because most of the time kids are using backpacks as the main way that they're taking their books and computers and water bottles to school, and they don't have as many lockers to put all that material away during the school day so they're carrying more of these books throughout the day. >> yeah, okay. let's look at some of the guidelines out there. make sure that backpacks weigh no more than 10% of a child's body weight. a couple other ones. make sure the child always uses both straps, it shouldn't hang more than four inches below the waist and talk to teachers if bags remain heavy. what is it that parents can do to help out, other than trying to lift the bags up themselves and carry them for the kids when they're coming home? >> i think having a

well-constructed backpack can help. as you had a morning on 401(k)s, i saw that the college students in that story had their backpacks on the appropriate way with both straps on their shoulders. so using a backpack the way it's designed is important. there is some debate about exactly what is the most appropriate wait that a child can carry. if you can get a backpack that is only 10% or less of their body weight, that is usually considered a safe amount of weight. but the reality is if you actually weigh them, they end up being 10% to 20%. the closer to 10%, the better it is. of course, actually wearing it the appropriate way does help as opposed to slinging it over one's shoulder. >> if a child does start experiencing back pain, what's the thirst thing parents need to do to alleviate things? is there anything they can do at

home before they see a doctor or e.r.? >> they need to find out from the kid how they use the backpack during the day. luckily being young, if you can, in fact, change the way they're carrying it or lightening their load, they can, in fact, get better. that's the good thing about being a child. luckily they recouperate pretty quickly if you change the dynamic. >> any special backpacks out there for kids who have injuries already, be it due injuries already, due to sports injuries, things at school or by carrying backpacks? >> what's important is they have a well-designed backpack as you already described that. the backpack is designed with compartments that keep things from shifting around. that there is padding over the straps, so it doesn't cut into the shoulders. that there's padding necessarily on the back of the backpack

against the back that helps cushion the load against the back, as well and that it doesn't get too load. that it's carried up on the chest and not really below the waist. and really looking tat way it is, they may have it that way when they go out the door but who knows once they're out the door where that backpack ends up. >> doctor, thank you for your time, sir. >> thanks for having me. follow the money. it's not so easy anymore in the hunt for terrorists. you'll see how prepaid debit cards could be helping terrorists. [ male announcer ] germs in your mouth build up

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in the war against terrorism, there's a new problem, the prepaid debit cards are as good as cash. if terrorists use them, we can't follow the money. joining us is alex johnson. good morning to you. you're saying if muhammad atta used those cash cards, we would not have been able to have

traced them back to al qaeda? >> that's the government's own assessment, alex. as long ago as six years ago, the government concluded that cash cards would have made it much more difficult to unearth al qaeda's financial network, which -- and tracking that down was one of the key victories the bush administration highlighted in the war on terror. >> so if they use cash cards, how far behind would we be in fighting al qaeda? would we be nowhere close where we are now? >> well, that's a difficult thing to assess, because al qaeda was quick to claim credit for the attacks and wanted to be public in its attacks on the united states. where we would be very far behind would be in identifying its entire network by following money trails. many of the high value targets the united states and the coalition was able to capture

were traced through their money trails. had al qaeda used money laundering tactics like prepaid store value cards that are loosely regulated and in some countries not regulated at all, it's conceivable we would be several years behind where we are now. >> you've got to think they're hip to this concept right now. is there anything that we can do to prevent them from using these cash cards now? >> well, in about three weeks, some new financial regulations are going to go into effect issued by the treasury department that hope to do exactly that, by requiring merchants who provide or sell these cards to verify the buyer's identification, to keep that identification information on file for five years, to report unusual transactions. >> that's going to be global? >> that's a united states

regulation. and that's one of the criticisms of the overall problem here is that there isn't really worldwide coordination on how you handle these cars. it will be much more difficult to anonymously buy a cash card in the united states. but the regulations won't do much for somebody overseas or in europe who walks in, buys a cash card and then just travels with it into the united states. >> very interesting, alex johnson, many thanks for bring us to it. that's a wrap for our saturday coverage. i'm alex witt. wake up with me tomorrow morning. see you in 30 minutes with more news. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the most headroom per dollar of any car in america. the all-new nissan versa sedan from $10,990. innovation upsized. innovation for all.

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