wice a day. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. [ whistle ] with copd, i thought i might miss out on my favorite tradition. now symbicort significantly improves my lung function, starting within 5 minutes. and that makes a difference in my breathing. today i'm back with my favorite team. ask your doctor about symbicort. i got my first prescription free. call or click to learn more. [ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. this sunday, the this sunday, the white house predicts high unemployment through next year's election. on this labor day weekend, the jobless rate stands at 9.1%. new numbers showing zero job growth for august as companies are still slow to hire, and a slow housing market prevents recovery. the president prepares to speak to congress and the nation about

what the government can do to get people back to work. but what are the prospects of washington acting during a fierce ideological fight about the economy? political paralysis is just one of the factors holding america back, raising new fears that our country is in decline. this morning, a special discussion featuring "the new york times" columnist thomas friedman, co-author of the book "that used to be us: how america fell behind in the world it invented and how we can come back" and previewing political battles ahead in the 2012 campaign as republicans prepare to square off with the new force in the republican field, texas governor rick perry. also with us this morning, historian and author, doris kearns goodwin, paul gigot, democratic congressman from los angeles maxine waters, and political strategist mark

mckinnon. and as the nation prepares to mark ten years since the 9/11 attack, army captain and veteran of iraq and afghanistan, joseph kearns goodwin joins his mother doris to talk about how that day changed his life and how the attacks defined his generation. ♪ good morning. labor day weekend marks the unfortunate end of summer and kicks off an intense, high stakes political season. if there was a head line that underscores what this campaign is all about, saturday's lead news in "the new york times," zero job growth latest bleak sign for the u.s. economy ". america is taking stock of what challenges the country now faces. the president this week will yet again try to focus attention on

jobs as the economy is stuck in slow growth. this week, america was reminded of what's wrong with washington. a short-lived but intense back and forth over when the president should address a joint session of congress and the american people. in the end, it will be thursday at 7:00. avoiding a conflict with republicans who on wednesday will debate about how and who should try to replace the president. >> the sideshows don't matter, the economy matters. >> it does, and it's not getting better. the question is how likely is it that congress will pass an obama jobs package that includes more spending or investment in the economy? you remember the debt ceiling debate. >> we have to create more jobs and we have to do it faster. and most of all, we've got to break the gridlock in washington that's been preventing us from taking the action we need to get this country moving. >> gridlock happens when there's an election. and next novice coming faster than you may like.

this is a week for serious jockeying in the race. is sarah palin in or out? she dang he willed the prospect of candidacy in iowa this weekend. >> the challenge is not simply to replace obama in 2012 but the real challenge is who and what we will replace him with. >> mitt romney, trailing texas governor rick perry in the polls will no doubt use wednesday's nbc news political debate to begin a line of attack. >> i spent most of my life outside politics, dealing with real problems in the real economy. career politicians got us into this mess and they simply don't know how to get us out. >> republicans and democrats are having the debate. the question is, as a nation, are we having the right conversation about the best way forward? that's what we're going to attempt right here this morning. joining me now, editorial page editor from "the wall street journal," paul gigot.

presidential historian, doris kearns goodwin, congresswoman maxine waters, and co-owner of the book that used to be us. tom freedman, and former adviser to george w. bush and co-founder of no labels, an organization for putting partisan aside in politics. welcome to all of you. happy end of summer, that's what this means as i said, and the challenges await us as we get into the fall are pretty steep. here is the context of this debate that we're having in politics and the debate about the economy. the unemployment numbers that came out in august have kept unemployment at 9.1%. no job growth in august. a pretty bleak headline. these are the projections that the white house has released, keeping unemployment at 9% through the election year. they project it comes down to 7.8% by 2014. something caught my eye this weekend. howard rosen from the peterson

institute of economics and "the new york times" said this is not just a jobless recovery, it's a recovery-less recovery. the book, tom, talks about what's holding america back, talks about fears of america's decline. with that backdrop, what is the major point and framing of this book? >> david, what i and my co-author from johns hopkins are arguing is we have good news and bad news. the bad news is this problem didn't start in 2008 with the subprime crisis, this problem in our view started at the end of the cold war. the good news is there is a way out if we understand exactly where we are. i make four big points basically. first of all, we made the worst mistake a country or species can make at the end of the cold war. we misread our environment. we interpreted the victory at the end of the cold war as a victory, and not understanding

it was the onset of one of the biggest challenges we faced as a country. we unleashed 2 billion people like us. the '90s turned out to be quite a party, thanks to the pace dividend and massive productivity boost of the internet, and thanks most importantly to the collapse in oil prices which was like a huge tax cut. then that brings us into the 21st century. so the '90s was like 3650 day victory parade. start with 2,000, 9/11. tragically, that set us on a bad course. we spent the last decade in many ways necessarily, many ways excessively chasing the losers from globalization rather than the winners, and made up for a lot of fall behind thereby basically injecting with steroids, like baseball players did to hit hoerms, we injected with credit steroids, housing boom and construction boom to create jobs. the third big change is a technological change. the world, the grid of the

world, number of people that connect and collaborate exploded in the last decade. i wrote a book in 2004 called the world is flat, which is about a connecting of the world. we have gone from connected to hyperconnected in terms of people that are now competing with us and connecting with us. when we sat down to write this book, i went back to the world is flat. i looked in the index and realized that facebook wasn't in it. when i said the world is flat, facebook didn't exist, for most didn't exist, twitter, 4g was a parking place, linked in was a prison. applications you sent to college. and for many, skype was a typo. that all happened in the last seven years. and what it has done is taken the world from connected to hyperconnected. it has been a huge opportunity and a huge challenge. lastly, say one thing. all of this is overlaid, interested in doris's view with a generational shift. went from the greatest

generation whose fiphilosophy which was save and invest to the baby boomer generation whose philosophy was borrow and spend, and we shifted from a generation born in the depression, world war ii and the cold war. these were serious people. wouldn't think of shutting down the government for a minute, okay, to a generation basically that is much less serious. we have gone from basically the values of the greatest generation were, which were what my philosopher friend called sustainable values, values sustained to baby boomer generation whose values are situational values. do whatever the situation allows. put them all together, i think you really account for a lot of the hole we are in structurally. >> that's the big picture which we will unpack. paul gigot, to the immediate term which is again this background, not just what got us here but the fact that we're facing persistent unemployment, and not just about the jobs, it

is about the fact that the economy is not growing, and here we are going to hear from the president this week. what is he possibly going to say, what is it the government can possibly do? >> the president has to decide whether he wants an election issue or if he wants to get something done. if he wants election issue, he will go big. liberal people say go fdr, go with a big new jobs program financed by government, go with more regulation. i think that's going to be a recipe for gridlock coming for the rest of the year. it will certainly set up a framework for the election debate. if he wants to get something done, he can confound the republicans by going for tax reform, saying you want tax cuts, okay. we will reduce the rates. get rid of credits and things to pay for that, and i don't know what they do. i think they would be back on their heels and say whoa, this changes the debate in a way we hadn't expected.

we plan a run against washington, he is arguing now on our turf. i think that's the fundamental choice the president has to make. i don't know which way he'll go, but if he wants to change the debate, that's the direction i would go. >> we talk as we get close to labor day, congresswoman waters, we spoke to james hoffa, president of the teamsters, about what he would want. i will play a portion here. >> i think we have to start job voting big business to start hiring people. he has to have a plan that's bold. he has to have a plan that hires people. maybe we have to come out of a wpa program, put people to work, hiring some of the unemployed, put them to work rebuilding america. >> is this possible? this is what paul was talking about, you're in congress. you saw the debt debate. do you really think that's going to happen now? >> i absolutely agree that the president must be bold. i agree that he must have a jobs program, must create jobs.

i'm talking about a program of a trillion dollars or more. we've got to put americans to work. that's the only way to revitalize this economy. when people work and they earn money, they spend that money, and that is what gets the economy up and going. i don't think it can shrink from the threats of the right. i don't think he can have a program that simply gives more tax breaks to the very people that got us in this trouble in the first place, and so i'm hopeful, very hopeful, that the president is going to put a big program out there and that he's going to fight very hard for it. >> mark mckinnon? >> the problem is not just the economy but our politics, and bill mcinturff, a great polster did an amazing study that's sort of jaw dropping. the consumer confidence index dropped 15 points in two months and it is a result of the way the debt ceiling debate was handled, the debate and nature

of the debate. it is the politics and the way politics are being handled in this country that is creating breakdown in confidence not just in the economy but in government and elected officials to handle it. the consumer confidence index is a key barometer, and it is interesting to note that an average for incumbent presidents, average when they win, consumer confidence is 95.9. losing, 78.4. today it is 55.7. >> you talk about also faith in leadership. doris, this is a cartoon we like this week from the record of hackensack, new jersey, and the president is visiting patterson today. he is in a boat because of the flood zone, has a copy of his polls in his hand and he says i remember when i could walk on this water, which to me symbolizes the fact that this was great expectations, that's a great amount of disappointment

in the president not just on the right but among his core supporters. >> i hope he has enough sense of self to save those cartoons. teddy roosevelt loved the cartoons about him, put them on his wall. the key thing, to pick up on what mark said, it is a political crisis and economic crisis we are facing. he has to somehow in his speech be able to persuade people that government can do something about it. we lost confidence the government knows what to do. i think he can get the republicans in two ways. he goes for tax reform somehow, figures out how to pay for a bold jobs program, everyone wants jobs creation. tell them if that's what you want, i'll give you specific things you can do and challenge them to do it. that's what harry truman did in 1948, the republicans were saying all the right things, we will deal with the housing crisis, education, he called them in special session, turn of session, and they did nothing. and then he was able to say why didn't you do anything.

you're a do nothing congress. if they want to deal with job creation, he has to be clear what he wants them to do, make visual, can't just list things, he has to explain how it would work, then challenge them to do it and find a way to pay for it at the same time. that's what he did before he got screwed up in the debt crisis. he had a bold plan that was balanced by tax increases, and people loved it, then he lost it. >> isn't a big part of this debate, and paul, it is embedded in tom's book, is the debate about the role of government, you had great private partnerships. now the notion of government being the last actor to create demand in the economy seems enat ma to a new generation of conservatives who the outgrowth of the past decade would say no lies, we have done enough of that as government. i mean, is there any way to get that back? >> that's the fundamental dispute here. the problem with what doris is suggesting on the spending side is that the stimulus, the

trillion dollar or so stimulus, 900 billion is widely perceived to have not created jobs. it is going to be a hard sell to try to get republicans in particular to agree to more spending, particularly with the debt figures what they are. the other problem is the general broad mistrust of government. gallup survey out this last week showed the approval rating for government was below oil and gas companies. probably even below journalists, which is hard to believe. that 17% approval rating the country is saying we don't think government can create the jobs. we have to give incentives to the private sector, which is what we did in the '80s and '90s to grow again. >> again, i don't know about the immediate. michael and i in this book were focused on the longer term trend. what we did is actually interview four employers, four major employers, one of whom is the new chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general martin dempsey, interviewed him when he

was head of army education corps, which was recently. here is what employers will tell you. they will tell you they are all looking for the same kind of employee. someone that can do physical reasoning and thinking, dot dot dot, in order to get an interview. that's not table steaks. what they're looking for are people that can adapt, invent, re-invent the job. in this hyperconnected world, changes have to be so fast. there are companies in silicone valley that do quarterly employer reviews now because their product cycle changes so fast. you can't wait until the end of the year to find out you have a bad team manager. that has to work back toward education. what we argue in the book going forward, there are two kind of countries in the world, hie and lie. high imagination and low imagination. despite the idea, i can go to delta, taiwan, they will give me a cheap chinese manufacturer. jump to amazon.com, they will do fulfillment and delivery,

craig's list and get an accou accountant and the countries that are thriving, israel, start up nation. we are not going to bail out of this crisis or stimulate out of this crisis. we are only going to educate ultimately and imagine and invent. >> congresswoman waters on the topic of education, look inside the unemployment numbers as we did for august and this is what you find. if you have less than a high school degree. >> i am melissa rehberger. we are interrupting "meet the press" to bring remarks just in from president obama on his trip to patterson new jersey. the president arrived in the community hard hit by hurricane irene and has been visiting the area along with new jersey governor chris christie, fema director craig fugate. he has been on the ground talking to residents.

after the first stop, he made some remarks. we have those remarks into us and want to share them with you as he meets with residents of hard hit new jersey. >> well, obviously visiting wayne, visiting patterson, many of these surrounding communities gives you a sense of the devastation that's taken place, not only here in new jersey but in upstate new york and vermont and a whole range of states that were effected by hurricane irene. i want to thank governor christ i.e., mayor jones, the entire congressional delegation that coordinated in unprecedented way to deal with this crisis. part of what i think has helped to avert even worse tragedy and greater loss of life is because of extraordinary responsiveness and farsighted thinking of state, local and federal

officials. i'm very proud of the work fema has done, not only from our central agency, but more importantly the folks locally on the ground who have been coordinating with the emergency management teams in new jersey. i want to thank the red cross for their extraordinary responsiveness. we have seen a huge outpouring of volunteers, private sector getting involved and trying to do what they can to help communities that have been hard hit. the main message that i have for all the residents not only at new jersey but all those communities that have been effected by flooding, by the destruction that occurred at a consequence of hurricane irene is that the entire country is behind you. and we are going to make sure we provide all the resources that are necessary in order to help these communities rebuild, and i know that there's been some talk about, you know, whether there's going to be a slow down in getting funding out here, emergency relief.

as president of the united states, i want to make it very clear that we are going to meet our federal obligations because we are one country and when one part of the country gets effected, whether it is a tornado in joplin, missouri or a hurricane that effects the eastern seaboard, we come together as a country and make sure they get the things they need. the last thing the residents of patterson or vermont or up state new york need is washington politics getting in the way of us making sure that we are doing what we can to help communities that have been badly effected. i want to thank federal, state, local officials who have worked around the clock to respond to the crisis. we know it could have been worse, but we should not underestimate the heartache that has gone through a lot of these communities and effected these

families. i will make sure even after the cameras are gone and attention is somewhere else that fema and federal officials continue to work with local officials to make sure we're doing the right thing, all right? thank you very much. >> that was president barack obama. he was assuring the residents help is on the way. we will keep you updated through the afternoon as he continues to tour that state. for now, back to "meet the press." >> government, what's the point? why do you want to be a politician if you hate government? it doesn't make sense to me. >> conservatives run abash about that point saying we've had too much government, it's not the answer, it's part of the problem, you know, getting in touch with their inner ronald reagan and reviving that and refreshing it. tom, what you had not seen are i mean liberals like the congresswoman have embraced the government and the role of

government, but from the president, an unwillingness to stand up and say hey, i put my hand up for government because government is part of the answer here. >> to pick up on doris' point, this is the argument in my book, we didn't get here by accident. and it is a great country. we won in every historical turn. how did we win? we had a formula for success. you can date back to hamilton, certainly see it in lincoln. five pillars. educate the people up to and beyond whatever the level of technology is, whether the cotton gin or super computer. immigration, attract the world's most talented and energetic people. third, infrastructure, have the world's best infrastructure. fourth, have the right rules for in senting capital formation and preventing recklessness, and last, government funded research. put those together, bake for 200 years, you get the united states of america. if you take all five of those, david, and look at the last

decade which we call the terrible twos, possibly one of the worst if not the worst decade in american history, education, boop, infrastructure, boop, subprime crisis, boop. research and development. all five of our pillars of success have been weakened. that's the underlying thing here. that's what we've got to be looking at. that's what the president has to be out there defending. >> he gave a speech about the pillars, one of the best speeches he made a year and a half ago was the need to restore the pillars. but the bully push doesn't have it any more. >> you didn't do squat on your own. you did it thanks to the greatest public/private partnership working together in the right balance. >> not just about investment, growth is where the jobs come from. that's where the big debate is, what creates growth. >> the prestige collapsed most

rapidly when government has tried to do far more than it is capable of doing. government prestige increased under ronald reagan, the great supposed energy of government because he shoes showed when you focused on a couple things and did it well and got the economy growing, people said they're competent. >> confidence and competence. >> that's a huge issue. the issue for president bush was not just katrina but how the iraq war turned out. i always thought people were not opposed to the iraq war, they were opposed to failure. they don't like when things don't go well. i want to come back, take a break, and talk about politics. one of the things you write about, tom, is the political system and its failings. we will be back with our panel, and talk about the big political week ahead when we come back. [ male announcer ] this...is the network. a living, breathing intelligence

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coming up, what are the hot legal stories trending this very coming up, what is trending this morning. we will be back with more from the round table after this brief commercial break. exclusive to the military. and commitment is not limited to one's military oath.

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we're back with more of our round table. big political week ahead. this is labor day weekend, kicking off the marathon that is the presidential race.

let's look at the week ahead. romney has a tea party rally in new hampshire, a big one, tea party rally in columbia, south carolina tomorrow as well. we have a new poll coming out on tuesday. wednesday is what i wanted to flag, nbc news politico debate. that's a big event principally because it is rick perry's first debate. we'll be watching that very closely. speaking of governor perry, he was asked this weekend by a nine-year-old who his favorite super hero was. here we're talking about how to get the country back on track, what's holding america back, fears of america's decline. this is a conversation that's happening in some ways on the campaign trail. so again, here is the nine-year-old that asks perry about his favorite super hero. this is what he said. >> i'm going to show you my age a bit, eric, i don't know any of the real current super heros. there was one back in my day named super man.

and superman came to save the united states. >> it inspires a little laughter. the serious point in that is this is the framing of his candidacy, which is america is off on the wrong track. waiting for superman, like the film about education, is that what the political campaign is about, is perry a superman? >> he is going to contrast the record in the past decade with the record in texas in the past decade, particularly in job creation. it is a different and good message for perry to make because they have created jobs and have done a lot of the things we say we want to do in washington and haven't. that's his big strength. he also has the best line of the campaign, so far for the republicans, i'm going to get up every day, try to make washington as inconsequential in your lives as i can. that's a message that really resonates with primary voters. this is a big challenge for him wednesday, though, because the question is with all of that behind him, he has rocketed up in public attention.

now, does he have the staying power to do that, or is he going to make mistakes that knock him back down. >> mark mckinnon, you frame this fight on the republican side as only you can do, with happy days references. for those that might be under 30 watching now, that was a fairly successful television program. how do you see perry versus romney? >> i see it as a race between arthur fonz reian richie cunningham. i think we know who richie cunningham is. perry has taken off because he has given voice to anger and heat in the republican primary, that anti-washington sentiment. he has got that down to a fine art and has the jobs story. there have been more private sector jobs created in texas in the last ten years than the entire country combined. so he has a compelling message. now, getting up on the big stage this week and never been on the national stage before, never been in debate before. had nine successful elections in texas, he is a very aggressive

campaigner, but this is a big moment, a lot of people's first look. it is a big stage first time. a lot on the line. >> go ahead, congresswoman. >> as i understand it, the majority of jobs that were created were government jobs in texas, and i think we have to -- >> private sector jobs. >> we have to get exact information about where the jobs came from. >> right. that will be vetted over time. let's look at the line up in terms of how the field looks according to quinn i pee ak. the trend tracker is tracking hot political stories, you may not be surprised when you look at the tracker that sarah palin, still the question as she was in iowa over the weekend, dropping hints. will she run? tom freedman, there's still a great deal of interest in sarah palin as a political force in the middle of this huge conversation we're trying to have. >> to me personally, it is a sign of the apocalypse because this woman, everything i hear from her has nothing to do with

what we argue in our book, the long term trends of where our country is at. there is no short term solution, not just giting rid of obama. what strikes me about this moment, we are having this crisis and an election and there's these two circles. one of my favorite quotes researching this, went to singapore. they live on the edge. they said we here lived in a that much door with no doors and windows, feel every change of temperature and have to adjust. do you live in a brick house with central heating? you think you can feel nothing. where are we starting the conversation in the country? are we starting the conversation. what are the big changes in the world. i watched mark mckinnon read notes off an iphone captured by a robotic camera. ten years ago he had a secretary draw up the notes and three people operated that camera. those jobs are gone, not coming back. how do we adopt to that world?

>> in a scary time like this, what's interesting is somebody like perry, even though he might not appeal to independents like romney will, some of his stance saying social security is unconstitutional, go back to having senators elected by state legislature, we had mr. oil and gas and you could buy your way in the senate. on the other hand, the strength, confidence, jazz is something people care about more when having issues in tough times. means not looking at where the person will bring us, but the fact he loves campaigning and he has strength. then the interesting thing is if romney beats him, it will make romney much stronger than if he coasted as a candidate, because he will have to show, then he will look for moderate in comparison to mr. perry. >> you talk to people around the country and they are frankly disgusted with washington, want more compromise. >> that's right. >> then there's people, yourself and others, that say out of the president we want to see more

fight. >> yes. >> it is the extremity in language, and intensity of the fight, you have an example of this. in august, in englewood, a following about the tea party. i want to play it. >> as far as i'm concerned, the tea party can go straight to hell. and i intend to help them get there. >> it is an applause line, but honestly, congresswoman, is that how you win the debatdebate? >> americans are angry and angry at politicians and government because they feel as if their government really does not care enough about them and their plight. they want jobs. congressional black caucus went to five cities during the break, and some of the information we gained basically helped us to understand there's desperation, there's hopelessness, and people think that they have to bail out the big banks and the financial

institutions and they're getting nothing for it, and one thing they're really angry about is the fact that these call centers are offshore, where for example, you had at&t said well, if you give me my merger, i'll bring my call centers back, and they feel as if the call center should be brought back, that we should make it too expensive for our companies, our businesses, to take these jobs offshore. they want the jobs back. >> it is like fighting the last war. times have changed. there's populism on the left, paul gigot, and populism on the right. that's what's fueling perry and the tea party but that's not necessarily getting us to a place of solutions. >> in the end, it will be an election settled on big ideas, what's the direction of the country. i think in 2012, are you going to have, if president obama is reelected, his economic policies will have been validated and he will be able to continue that direction. if, however, they are repud

ated, you will see us move in a direction not unlike the election in 1980 where ronald reagan said i have a different idea, i want to go a different direction and we'll give that a try. yes, there will be agreements in the middle, but ultimately that's what we do in elections. set a direction. we had a direction for thirty months. the public is not satisfied with that direction. we will have a referendum on those policies. that's what we do in politics in this country. >> you have become a no labels guy after working for republican candidates or president, how do we change incentives in campaigns so the kind of risk taking that all of us around the table think is a good idea in public policy and politics actually gets rewarded instead of penalized? >> that's the way it was launched in december. 300,000 members strong, we hear from americans across the country saying we want everybody at the table, everything on the table. politics is a market, and that market is a majority out there. they have just been quiet.

recent years because of everything happening, the response was simply to throw their hands up, say we don't care. now the stakes are too high, they are engaging. i think there will be huge response from middle america. what they want is the parties working together, everything together and everyone at the table. it will take bold solutions and everybody has to sacrifice. >> one of the applause lines mitt romney had early yes that we played was the idea we have a lot of government lifers, lot of people in government a long time. they are not necessarily the ones to lead us out of this mess because the sparks, this is not something you said, this is something you did, that's the communication. but something is going on, not in government unfortunately because the penalty is too high for that sort of spark creation. that seems to be a factor. >> i mean, i think there's something to that. something about a bureaucratic mentality when you have been in the big buildings in washington a long time, tons of regulations on top of you that you can't

think imaginetively. but government is not just that. government as i said before, it is people working together collectively to put talents to use with private energy and with the labor unions and together the three somes doing something. can't take the government out of the picture. do you want to go back to the 19th century? that was great, government was nothing and we were terrible back then. >> tom, you advocate a third party. michael bloomberg on new york said on this program no way, no how would that happen. he would be one of the strongest contenders to carry it off. >> it seems to me we need a shock. shock therapy we administered to the soviet union at the end of the cold war, the system needs a shock. i agree, the next election will be a new big idea, but not just big government against small government, i hope it is about a formula for success and getting back to it. people come to michael and me, does it have a happy ending.

we say it has a happy ending, just don't know if it is fiction or nonfiction. i tell you what makes me optimistic is this country is still full of people that just didn't get the word and they are starting things, inventing things, creating things, organizing things. if you want to be an optimist about america, look at the country from the bottom up. you see the potential. like the space shuttle. all the thrust from below, but the booster rocket, washington, d.c. is cracked and leaking energy and the pilots in the cockpit are fighting over the flight plan. we can't achieve the escape philosophy we need to get to the next level. you fix those two things, we take off. >> before we get to the next level, we've got to recognize that there are big problems in this country. foreclosures, the banks will not do loan modifications and we have not come up with a program by which we can keep people in their homes. we need to be bold enough for the president to say to the

bankers you come into this office, we're going to talk about how we're going to write down principles, keep people in homes, make sure interest rates are no more than 4%. people want to hear the answers about how they are going to have a decent quality of life. >> your question to tom, something he has written about, there's an effort on all fifth ee states, ballot access for alternative nominating convention in all 50 states next year. there's things going on, called americans elect. there will be an alternative nominating process. there's frustration, people are tired with the system the way it is, working within the system with labels but there are things outside the system as well. >> we will leave it there. this morning before we take a break, programming note. for more on tom freedman's book, "that used to be us: how america fell behind in the world it invented and how we can come back" you can watch his live view on

the "today" show tuesday morning and listen to an audio expert at our website. coming up, many of the events of september 11 led to life changing decisions for joseph kearns goodwin. a nation prepares to mark the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, we will look back on how that day effected his life and his generation. former army captain joseph kearns goodwin and his mother, doris will join us after this break. a change in the lineup? [ female announcer ] one bottle of ultra dawn has the grease-cleaning power of two of this competing brand. [ sponge ] way to go, kid. [ female announcer ] dawn does more... [ sponge ] so it's not a chore. [ doorbell rings ] hello there. i'm here to pick up helen. ah. mom? he's here. nice wheels. oh, thanks. keeps me young. hello there, handsome. your dinner's in the microwave, dear. ♪ where do you want to go?

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we're back with a special we are back with a special discussion as we look ahead to the tenth anniversary of nine. joining me now, former army captain joseph kearns goodwin and his mom, presidential historian, doris kearns goodwin, back with us. welcome to both of you. this gets a lot more personal, right, doris? well, joe, it is great to have you here. >> thank you. >> as we talk about ten years after 9/11, i wanted to talk

about what that day meant and what actually happened on that day for you in the days that followed it. >> sure. well, i was sort of planning, graduated college, getting ready to work at a political consultant in washington, had some talk of going into the army, never took it seriously. after september 11th, i realized my world was changed, as it was for a lot of people. i saw my mom and said i guess i know what i am doing. she said you're not joining the army, right? and actually it was the opposite. i went down, signed the paperwork what i thought was three years, ended up being six, a lifelong lesson in reading fine print. that being said, turned out to be an incredible experience. >> i know you're here as a veteran and as a mere representative of so many others that served and volunteered to serve and were already serving prior to 9/11 and were trained and ready for that moment of great consequence.

but describe the emotions of that time for you, what compelled you to say i got to do something. >> it was not so much out of anger or that i wanted vengeance, people attacked us, there was maybe an element of that. it was more there i was, i had graduated college, hadn't embarked on a career and it became clear some young people would be needed to do something somewhere. we didn't know what it was before afghanistan, let alone before iraq. i felt i had be granted almost every advantage a free and prosperous society could give you. went to a great public school system, great university, prepared because of public schools, great family, great red sox team, in 2001 more heartache than joy, and felt because i was ready, willing, in good shape, it was incumbent to give back to this country that had given me so much. >> doris you were on the program the week after the war in iraq started, with tim, and this is the exchange you had. >> you are a historian, but your

most important job as a mother. your son enlisted in the military after september 11th. second lieutenant joseph kearns goodwin. what are your thoughts as a mother this morning as he finishes his flight school? >> he's currently in jump training, parachute training. i couldn't even go on a roller coaster. physically in awe of what he is going through. physically he feels the army trained him as best it could. has been in leadership positions along the way. met people he never would have met in concord, massachusetts. i have to respect his decision. he will be going overseas, whether he gets deployed to iraq, i don't know, but going overseas in ten days. >> he was about to go to war, that was a pretty brave face. >> it was a game face. underneath, once he got to iraq, something in the very beginning, i was so proud of his decision, thought he would be part of a generation that were going to join and do something to help our country. as historian, i was thrilled for him that he would have that experience. once iraq was there, once we started getting letters back

from him, from iraq, very scary kinds of things. he even didn't tell us half what was going on, then you wake up like any military family does. every time you read something, you worry, will something happen. you obsessively look at the television and don't want to look at the television. i think the hardest part for me to be honest was not iraq, because we got through that, he did well, did incredibly well, but then came back home and like so many others, was called back to another tour of duty, and it came to our house. the gobbledygook from the military, saying i think you're called back to service in afghanistan and i had to tell him he was working here at nbc, but all those ranging emotions as mother and historian, in the end, i think he had seen the world he would not otherwise have. i am so proud of him. >> you wrote a few years ago you didn't feel america was at war. >> right. >> as we are a decade later, where are we after 9/11? do we as a country feel less secure? do we have less faith in

government? how have we changed? >> i do think getting to the original point, there was a huge missed opportunity after 9/11. as tragic as the events were, they did bind us together as a country for a brief period of time. i felt a lot of us mentally in the day might have been forestalled if people had been asked to contribute to the effort to the country in ways they weren't. that doesn't mean necessarily bolstering the ranks of the army, that would be great so you don't have kids going back on fifth and sixth tour, during world war ii, she can probably talk about this far better than i can, you had people that undertook tax increases. there was fuel rationing. kids were putting rubber bands for the war effort. that call to service never came for us. if we asked people to sacrifice september 12th, and they were ready, willing and able, instead of putting two words on a credit card, i think they would have. i think people were ready to respond. >> this has been defensive, preventing another attack.

we have been at it for ten years. concluding wars in afghanistan and iraq likely without much fanfare and clear results. we have had a conversation about the greatness of america if there's a feeling of decline. what are the emotions of the country ten years later? >> hardest thing in contrast to the decade after pearl harbor was when everybody participated in that decade of world war ii, everybody knew somebody fighting overseas. you had the manhattan project for atomic energy, you had the rubber bands being rolled out. there was a feeling of closure when the war came to an end and the feeling we all did it together. we have been spectators most of the country in this decade to the wars fought in iraq and afghanistan. that was one of the things that was so difficult when joey's letters came home, not only did we read them to everybody because everybody in the family wanted to read them, it was like going back to letters of a hundred years ago, there was no e-mail in the beginning. everybody we knew would want to hear about them.

it was their one brush, especially in our world, our ivy league world in boston, not many kids joined the army then. the letters were i think the lifeline for me and him. his brother michael, 15 months older than him, wrote to joey every day, handwritten letter in iraq. i kept thinking when they were four and five years old, arguing how many person had more cereal in the box, now they were friends. that's all i need to knonknow k. >> the letters were striking. jubilation, young guy knows the college in washington went down there to be part of it, at least this was an element of 9/11 that you can remember from being scared as a young person to now at least having an element of closure there. these scenes playing out at ohio state university. >> yeah. they are spectacular. i think you're right. for my generation at the close of the cold war, there was a

ten-year period there was a sense of maybe nothing is wrong in the world. hey, everything is safe going forward. 9/11 was a stark reminder that the world is a dangerous one, a tough one. one with real issues and real problems. i don't think that's new for my generation, but that was the time when my generation realized something a previous generation realized for previous events. >> there's a conversation going on even as we have ours digitally. on facebook this caught our attention. graduating from high school in 2000 means many friends and family have served, continued to serve. this makes us a generation decent advertised and accustomed to war. i have a sick feeling if a time of peace ever actually happens again, we will be suspicious of it. final thought, joe. it ties together with this notion of being the new greatest generation. what defines your generation that experienced 9/11 and served afterward as you think about leadership, as you think about national purpose? >> well, what is great about

america and any generation is 9/11 was a defining moment, but not what defines our generation. i think what has been great about us through our history is to be able to encounter event like nine, see what needs to be done, try to overcome it, and then go on with our lives, go on with the business of work and play and everything all together. while it is definitional, i don't think it should define us. >> thank you for your service. >> it was my honor. >> joe, thank you, doris, thank you. as we think about 9/11 this morning, next sunday's tenth anniversary, we want to remember those that were lost that horrible day, innocent victims as well as our first responders, firefighters, police and others. and we'll remember to say thank you to the men and women of our volunteer armed forces like joe who have fought and died and served multiple deployments in iraq and afghanistan while their families endured their absence back home. one such warrior that defined military leadership in the post 9/11 era took off the uniform

this week. general david petraeus, commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan and before that, sent come commander, and before that, commander of u.s. forces in iraq retired after 37 years of service in the army as he prepares to take the helm as director of the central intelligence agency. petraeus changed the army, reengineering how troops are trained and how they engage and fight the enemy. most notably led the surge in iraq. admiral mike mullen called petraeus not just one of the most important military figures of our time but of all time. to him and to his wife holly we offer our thanks and gratitude. next sunday on 9/11, "meet the press" won't air as normal. i'll be part of the special network coverage with brian williams, tom brokaw, lester holt. 9/11, america remembers. we'll span the events and critical moments. we look back on that fateful day one decade later. one other programming note,

watch the rebroadcast of this at 2:00 p.m. eastern as well as tomorrow for early risers at 6:00 a.m. eastern. that's all for today. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." this is the relief i've been looking for. salonpas has 2 powerful pain fighting ingredients that work for up to 12 hours. and my pharmacist told me it's the only otc pain patch approved for sale using the same rigorous clinical testing that's required for prescription pain medications. proven. powerful. safe. salonpas. naturals from delicious, real ingredients with no artificial flavors or preservatives. naturals from purina cat chow. share a better life. ♪

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